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entatlrg
Mar 21, 2010, 07:30 PM
If you increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad?

The Air's full keyboard, bigger screen, it's light and easy to carry does more with less effort and more convenience, right? I think so.

The iPad seems to be created for a market that doesn't yet exist and maybe doesn't need to exist? Now software developers and publishers are working to make their content iPad compatible which (I think) with the intention of getting us to pay for services, such as New York Times etc, things which we're getting free now browsing on a computer.

Do we need this new product and market that Apple seems to have created, the world's business climate needs it ... but does the consumer.

The iPad will not be as productive as device to use as compared to a MacBook Air, not yet anyway. Very very convenient yes ... but looks what's it's doing already, a whole new market of software, accessories, ipad bags, keyboards is here now...

What are we going to carry our iPad with our laptops on the way to work because it's convenient to take from your briefcase and read the newspaper, and then once we arrive at the office we have to reach in our bag for our laptop to get 'real work' done ... now you're carrying less instead of more.

I don't know, the big picture is us all having some kind of powerful ipad device in the future with no laptops in use I guess ... the iPad by then will likely do it all .... plug it into peripherals and it'll be a work horse.

The demise of the laptop as we know it? Or, is the iPad a product we didn't need in the first place, .... I wonder?



turbineseaplane
Mar 21, 2010, 07:35 PM
INow software developers and publishers are working to make their content iPad compatible with (I think) the il intention of getting us to pay for services, such as New York Times etc, things which we're getting free now browsing on a computer.

This is an interesting point.

I still think those trying to put up pay walls are going to have a rough go as there will always be someone willing to do an alternative business model for news and keep the website open and free.

Will you pay or simply look elsewhere?

I'm just going to go elsewhere.

entatlrg
Mar 21, 2010, 09:26 PM
I found myself with 'iPad fever' like many others counting the hours until I can get my hands on one ...

The more I thought about it the more I wonder do I/we need to carry another electronic device?

And, for who will this iPad be a true laptop replacement. Ok, I can hear the roar now "it's NOT meant to be a laptop replacement" then if we agree with that point we're back to my first point, do we really need to carry another device.

Now we have:
iPhone
MacBook Air's and MBP's ...

add the iPad ... buy the keyboard and stand, chargers etc ...

and you've got overkill.

What would you get rid of first? Not likely the iPhone as you need a phone and a pocketable device for web, email etc. The laptop you need to do any sort of moderate heavy work. iPad doesn't fit into this equation?

In the iPad's infancy once the wow/cool factor wears off Apple better come back with a LOT more powerful iPads that we can use to replace our notebooks.

Will be interesting...

This iPad frenzy isn't doing our MacBook Air's any good right now ...

aleni
Mar 21, 2010, 09:39 PM
the instant on, long battery life and app store for games which i favor the ipad more than the macbook air.

im gonna sell my rev B macbook air and buy 2 ipads for my me and my wife. currently, all i do is browsing with my air. i might as well exchange it for the iPad which i can browse website while laying on my bed..

Durious
Mar 21, 2010, 09:45 PM
I found myself with 'iPad fever' like many others counting the hours until I can get my hands on one ...

The more I thought about it the more I wonder do I/we need to carry another electronic device?

And, for who will this iPad be a true laptop replacement. Ok, I can hear the roar now "it's NOT meant to be a laptop replacement" then if we agree with that point we're back to my first point, do we really need to carry another device.

Now we have:
iPhone
MacBook Air's and MBP's ...

add the iPad ... buy the keyboard and stand, chargers etc ...

and you've got overkill.

What would you get rid of first? Not likely the iPhone as you need a phone and a pocketable device for web, email etc. The laptop you need to do any sort of moderate heavy work. iPad doesn't fit into this equation?

In the iPad's infancy once the wow/cool factor wears off Apple better come back with a LOT more powerful iPads that we can use to replace our notebooks.

Will be interesting...

This iPad frenzy isn't doing our MacBook Air's any good right now ...

The MBA appeal isn't entirely their for me anymore now that the iPad is nearing, based on MY current uses of the device. I have clicktoflash because the MBA does not handle flash well, and that's regardless if I'm using my wife's Rev a or my rev c MBA, as well I'm not fond of ADS! I mainly use it for email, VNC to my MBP, browsing, some light reading, chat (msn), youtube, excel (very little) which iPad can do well with exception to excel where i'll need to use numbers.

The large appeal on the MBA was the size and weight, if I needed strong productivity apps I have my MBP in my main room. I have 3 chargers for my MBA around the house (living room, bedroom, computer room). Now with the iPad I can have chargers in each of these rooms with a smaller more portable device to meet all my current needs of my Air. I'll admit it's not a "NEED" product but neither was the MBA.

The only issue I have with the iPad is the lack of a front facing camera for skype video conferencing... although something I would only use in travelling for myself and the wife it is a large inconvenience and hopefully will be rectified in a refresh.

Gooo apple!

mastercool10
Mar 21, 2010, 10:07 PM
the macbook air is one of the nicest around.

I just hate the cost factor...

TSX
Mar 21, 2010, 11:08 PM
That's why ive been looking at a MBA, at first i thought about an iPad but it doesn't support flash which some school stuff requires flash websites. So i hopefully can get a used MBA for a couple hundred more than an iPad.

flynz4
Mar 22, 2010, 12:51 AM
Couldn't the MacBook Air be better than the iPad?

Of course it can be better than the iPad... for some things. For other things, I think the iPad will be nicer. ;)

/Jim

flynz4
Mar 22, 2010, 01:06 AM
Now we have:
iPhone
MacBook Air's and MBP's ...

add the iPad ... buy the keyboard and stand, chargers etc ...

and you've got overkill.
I think you missed one :)

Not counting my 15" MBP that I use exclusively for work, I have:

27" i7 iMac
13" MBA (personal laptop)
64 GB 3G iPad (pending delivery end of April)
32 GB 3GS iPhone

First off... I think the combination of the 27" i7 iMac and the MBA is perfect. I love the MBA... but I would probably not recommend it for someone who wants to use it as their one and only computer. I know some people live with just a MBA... but I would feel "underpowered". I use the i7 for all of my heavier duty computing (ex: editing websites, Aperture, transcoding videos)... and my MBA compliments the i7 for "casual computing" around the house, as well as being the perfect travel companion.

Having said that... I do think that my MBA and my iPhone will both see somewhat less usage as a result of getting an iPad. I think that some (but not all) of my "casual computing" will move to the iPad. I also think that I will pick up the iPad over the iPhone for web surfing whenever I have both available. Hence... both the MBA and iPhone will likely be used less.

So... in the end I will have 4 tiers of computing from my large desktop down to my iPhone. They will all use the same basic architecture, share all important data via Mobile Me and Dropbox... all of my passwords will automatically sync via 1password, and my bookmarks will stay in sync via xmarks. It will not matter which machine I pick up... I will have my data everywhere... so I can use whichever tool is most convenient for my particular job at hand.

/Jim

unvacme
Mar 22, 2010, 04:01 AM
I think you missed one :)

Not counting my 15" MBP that I use exclusively for work, I have:

27" i7 iMac
13" MBA (personal laptop)
64 GB 3G iPad (pending delivery end of April)
32 GB 3GS iPhone

First off... I think the combination of the 27" i7 iMac and the MBA is perfect. I love the MBA... but I would probably not recommend it for someone who wants to use it as their one and only computer. I know some people live with just a MBA... but I would feel "underpowered". I use the i7 for all of my heavier duty computing (ex: editing websites, Aperture, transcoding videos)... and my MBA compliments the i7 for "casual computing" around the house, as well as being the perfect travel companion.

Having said that... I do think that my MBA and my iPhone will both see somewhat less usage as a result of getting an iPad. I think that some (but not all) of my "casual computing" will move to the iPad. I also think that I will pick up the iPad over the iPhone for web surfing whenever I have both available. Hence... both the MBA and iPhone will likely be used less.

So... in the end I will have 4 tiers of computing from my large desktop down to my iPhone. They will all use the same basic architecture, share all important data via Mobile Me and Dropbox... all of my passwords will automatically sync via 1password, and my bookmarks will stay in sync via xmarks. It will not matter which machine I pick up... I will have my data everywhere... so I can use whichever tool is most convenient for my particular job at hand.

/Jim

macbook air sucks, it just looks nice, cant even do casual computing, its more like a faster netbook

flynz4
Mar 22, 2010, 04:31 AM
macbook air sucks, it just looks nice, cant even do casual computing, its more like a faster netbook

You are certainly welcome to your opinion... but I have owned a lot of laptops in my life... and nothing comes even close to a MBA as far as being the perfect laptop for my use.

I have also owned netbooks... and for every use that I have encountered... I just cannot agree with your statement.

/Jim

drjsway
Mar 22, 2010, 05:52 AM
A MBA could be better than an iPad if they reduce the weight by 50%, lost the keyboard, and add an capacitive touch screen.

mattwolfmatt
Mar 22, 2010, 07:27 AM
Yes, MBA is better. That's why it's $1000 more.

OSX doesn't hurt. And a real keyboard.

I'm not sure the point of your post. Generally, more expensive things are "better" than cheaper things.

elfxmilhouse
Mar 22, 2010, 07:31 AM
If you increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad?

yes that is IF the MBA had those things it would make it a better notebook.
for me the air is not a replacement for the ipad.

the ipad is/has:

1. smaller
2. lighter
3. longer battery life
4. built in 3G
5. touchscreen

there are many situations where i dont need a full fledged computer, no matter how small it is.

i would also take into consideration the form factor. it would be pretty inconvenient to pull out a laptop, open it and use the keyboard/trackpad just for a short while. a laptop would also require a table or lap to use comfortably. the ipad on the other hand can be used immediately using the touch interface both on a table or in your hands.

iSee
Mar 22, 2010, 08:22 AM
Yes, MBA is better. That's why it's $1000 more.

OSX doesn't hurt. And a real keyboard.

I'm not sure the point of your post. Generally, more expensive things are "better" than cheaper things.

As I read this thread I was wondering if someone would mention the price difference.

An iPad is 1/3 the price of a MBA which makes it impossible to consider it as a direct competitor to the iPad.

Think of it this way: what if a MBA cost $499? Apple would sell them by the ton and I doubt there ever would have been an iPad. Or, what if the iPad cost $1499? Apple would hardly be able to sell any and the product would surely be canceled.

stewie1
Mar 22, 2010, 08:36 AM
I have a shared iMac at home and was looking for an MBA to use as a personal and portable machine. I can get a work-issued netbook for traveling, but it's so crippled by IT policies that I prefer to take my own machine.

In the past few weeks my thinking has changed and now I'm thinking of getting an iPad for personal/portable computing (I can defer tasks that require a full computer for those times that I'm sitting at the iMac).

Consideration here is primarily cost. The iPad is no substitute for an MBA, that's for sure. But I can buy 3 of them for the cost of one MBA.

Now I'm thinking that I get an iPad and postpone a personal laptop purchase until Apple implements USB3... likely a year or two from now.

UTclassof89
Mar 22, 2010, 09:04 AM
The latest issue of Wired had an interesting article on this: their take is that tablets are simply the next evolution of the laptop. As tablets get more processor speed and better battery life, and applications move to 'the cloud', there will be less reason for a laptop.

I wouldn't even consider an iPad, personally. I need the power to run full fledged apps (Photoshop, Flash, InDesign, Illustrator). But for the casual user who needs a text editor, a web connection, and the convenience of having iTunes and eBooks, I can see the iPad fitting the bill nicely.

I might get one in 7-10 years when Apple works out the bugs and perfects the feature set.

mattwolfmatt
Mar 22, 2010, 11:19 AM
I think those of you who are thinking "this may be my own little computer for doing stuff on the road" will be surprised how often you switch applications. Working from one to another is how stuff gets done, at least for me. Even when I'm in a library or something and I'm forced to just have one monitor, I feel crippled.

Running the iphone OS, and the screen size, will keep this as a big ipod touch. Don't get me wrong, I'm considering getting one, but for gaming and maybe movie watching. Not for email or working on documents.

lifeinhd
Mar 22, 2010, 11:30 AM
Personally, I'd be scared to let an iPad replace my MBP for travel. Right now, I have a MBP connected to a display that stays on my desk 99% of the time, (about to become 100% of the time once my Dell Mini 10V arrives today). The 1% of the time it leaves the desk is when I go on vacation. I could just bring my iPod touch on vacation, and it should cover most of my web-browsing needs, but I'm afraid I'll come up against some limitation of the iPT and have major problems. For example, if I'm in NY and find I need to print a boarding pass, I can just plug a hotel printer into my laptop and easily print. Or if the car rental website relies heavily on Flash, I'm set with a laptop. If something like that should happen and all I have is an iPad, I'm forced to hunt for a Kinko's or something to get a computer, wasting time on my vacation. That's why, unless I'm just out of the house for the day, I always want a full computer with me.

Also, I spent $300 for my Dell Mini. For $200 less than an iPad, I have a screen that's the same size, a real keyboard, 160GB hard drive, multitouch trackpad, flash, multitasking, USB, 7-hour battery, etc-- basically everything the iPad lacks, with the tiniest of sacrifices in battery life. How people can look at this and still want an iPad is beyond me.

I would have bought a refurb MBA, but those are still close to $1000 and I decided I wanted a smaller footprint, so I'll be hackintoshing my netbook. I think the OP is right, though. I think some Apple executive said "we're not selling as many MacBook Airs as we'd like to. Let's release a product that's worse than a MacBook Air, with many obvious flaws, so people will look at it and think 'what a piece of crap, I'll just save a little longer and buy myself a MacBook Air,'" only their plan backfired.

I think those of you who are thinking "this may be my own little computer for doing stuff on the road" will be surprised how often you switch applications. Working from one to another is how stuff gets done, at least for me. Even when I'm in a library or something and I'm forced to just have one monitor, I feel crippled.

Running the iphone OS, and the screen size, will keep this as a big ipod touch. Don't get me wrong, I'm considering getting one, but for gaming and maybe movie watching. Not for email or working on documents.

I agree, it's certainly not the device for productivity. Imagine if you had to use it to copy a handwritten PDF to a Pages document-- ugh!

I believe games that are made specifically for the iPad are about its only advantage over an iPhone or a laptop/netbook. Movies can be watched on both an iPhone or a laptop, with smaller to nonexistent black bars, something the iPad can't do thanks to its 4:3 screen. So basically, the iPad is a $500 casual gaming device that's limited to a few games and won't fit in your pocket. It simply doesn't justify the cost. If I want casual games, I can pull out my iPT, while it doesn't offer quite as many games, it's more useful because a) I already own one and b) it's always with me because it fits in my pocket.

Dagless
Mar 22, 2010, 11:51 AM
the instant on, long battery life and app store for games which i favor the ipad more than the macbook air.

I don't understand why people bring this up. Mac laptops have instant on from sleep. If you powered down an iPad/iPod just as you shut off a computer then yes... both devices would have a boot up. Just as if you put a Mac laptop to sleep it would also wake from sleep instantly. I don't even shut my laptops down anymore.
Instant on isn't a feature. It's what computers do when waking from sleep.

Steam is also coming to Mac so there's your downloadable game store.

On topic, it's already better. The MBA is a real, red blooded computer. The iPad is an end-user device with limited or non-existent content creation possibilities, input methods, connectivity, ports, upgrade possibilities.

gnr319
Mar 22, 2010, 12:52 PM
I pre-ordered the iPad even though the MBA is my primary computer.

I don't find owning the two redundant or believe that the Air can be a better iPad and vice versa. These are very different products for me and the extent to which they overlap is very superficial.

Perhaps unlike others, the iPad for me will see no travel time--it will be strictly a domestic device. It will be what I use around the apartment to check email, browse the web, watch a movie in bed, chat while I lie on the couch to watch TV and read a book on occasion (even then, I still prefer paperback).

On the other hand, my MBA + iPhone is my true mobile setup. The iPhone 3g allows me to be connected all times to the internet and the MBA maintains my level of productivity.

I think there is a reason that the ipad was marketed not as a carry-along/everywhere-you-go device but one whose true environment is the personal home. Despite how light the MBA is, it is still uncomfortable to use away from the desk--all laptops are.

I think Apple recognizes how intimate computers have become in our personal lives, going with us to the bedroom for a movie, the living room to share some photos with friends and family, the deck to check the news or email over a cup of coffee, etc. that the standard notebook configuration which has been around for 15+ years no longer fits the new role that computers are playing in our daily personal lives.

A new type of interface and user input is needed for this change and the iPad is a wonderful first attempt.

gglockner
Mar 22, 2010, 01:06 PM
I don't think the average reader of MacRumors is representative of the market as a whole.

For many people, a home computer spends much of its time being used for web, email, games, audio and videos. For most people, the iPad will do these tasks well, it will be super-portable and have great battery life.

What an iPad won't do well or do at all includes advanced tasks such as media editing, writing/editing documents and presentations, programming, etc. For these tasks, people will still use a laptop.

Put another way: if I weren't a software engineer, I'd be very happy with an iPad when I travel to visit family. But when I need to write code, communicate with others for work, or edit a spreadsheet, an iPad won't be enough. But I fully recognize that most computer users have simpler needs than I do.

In the long term, I believe some of the ideas of the MBA will get incorporated into the mainstream MacBook/MacBook Pro lines, and the MBA will be discontinued. In other words, the 13" MBP might get a bit lighter, and get an external optical drive, while retaining a higher level of upgrades and a longer battery. And many people who need an ultraportable can get an iPad.

Lack of flash on the iPad will be a real nuisance but not a show-stopper. Games can be purchased from iTunes, while many streaming media sites (YouTube, Hulu) will have apps for the iPad.

My $0.02.

Alchematron
Mar 22, 2010, 02:11 PM
If you increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad?


I'm in

CJS7070
Mar 22, 2010, 02:14 PM
Meh, the MBA is a computer, the iPad isn't. I don't really think they can be effectively compared for that factor alone.

drjsway
Mar 23, 2010, 04:50 AM
Think of it this way: what if a MBA cost $499? Apple would sell them by the ton and I doubt there ever would have been an iPad.

I have a MBA and I still have a need for an iPad. Even if Apple gave away the MBA for free, I would still also buy an iPad.

The iPad does several things better than any laptop on the market:

1. Browse the web
2. Read books and magazines
3. Watch videos
4. Browse and share photos
5. Games

Note that none of these things require extensive use of a keyboard. Besides doing everything better, it is also more portable/convenient to carry around and use. Multi-touch is also quicker for most tasks than a mouse/trackpad.

The ONLY advantage a laptop has at this point is for typing long documents or code.

tony-0709
Mar 23, 2010, 05:13 AM
All I want now is a usb port...and microsoft office read and write...nothing else on the ipad...

if not then the "air" is for me, as it is a necessity

lifeinhd
Mar 23, 2010, 05:53 AM
I don't find owning the two redundant or believe that the Air can be a better iPad and vice versa. These are very different products for me and the extent to which they overlap is very superficial.

Perhaps unlike others, the iPad for me will see no travel time--it will be strictly a domestic device. It will be what I use around the apartment to check email, browse the web, watch a movie in bed, chat while I lie on the couch to watch TV and read a book on occasion (even then, I still prefer paperback).

Then what exactly does the iPad offer you that your MacBook Air doesn't? For what you describe, it most certainly does seem redundant.

I think there is a reason that the ipad was marketed not as a carry-along/everywhere-you-go device but one whose true environment is the personal home. Despite how light the MBA is, it is still uncomfortable to use away from the desk--all laptops are.

What exactly *is* the iPad marketed as? I've searched the Apple website, and the best I can find is "magical and revolutionary." It seems Apple doesn't even know how to market the thing.

The iPad does several things better than any laptop on the market:

1. Browse the web
2. Read books and magazines
3. Watch videos
4. Browse and share photos
5. Games

Note that none of these things require extensive use of a keyboard. Besides doing everything better, it is also more portable/convenient to carry around and use. Multi-touch is also quicker for most tasks than a mouse/trackpad.

The ONLY advantage a laptop has at this point is for typing long documents or code.

You, sir, have been hit by the Jobs Reality Distortion Field, and hit hard.

First off, I'm willing to bet you haven't even looked at the rest of the industry to see if anyone else makes anything with more value than an iPad, am I correct?

Anyways, the ONLY THING an iPad does better than a laptop is casual gaming, and here's why:

1. Browse the web-- we know it's not the best device for surfing the Web because it lacks Flash. Love it or hate it, you can't deny the fact that it's a standard, and as such it needs to be supported.
2. Read books and magazines-- maybe I'm not sure quite where you're going with this one, but if you read at 350 words per minute on an iPad, you're going to read at 350 words per minute on a laptop. If you can have animations around your text on an iPad, you can have them on a laptop. Not sure why you think the iPad is "better" at this.
3. Watch videos-- 4:3 display leaves huge black bars. Low-res display can't play true HD.
4. Browse and share photos-- yeah, because I'd much rather see photos on a 10" display than a larger laptop display with a higher-res screen.
5. Games-- certain games will have an advantage on the iPad, but only those that use either Multitouch or the accelerometer, things laptops don't have. So as I said in my previous post, the iPad is a $500 casual gaming device that won't fit in your pocket.

AAPLaday
Mar 23, 2010, 07:15 AM
The MacBook Air is already better than the iPad. Its a computer as opposed to an ebook reader with a web browser and iTunes. Im not saying the iPad doesn't have its uses. I could imagine it being handy for reading a newspaper whilst sat in garden, but the Air isn't that far off a MacBook in performance and capabilities

Dagless
Mar 23, 2010, 01:07 PM
The iPad does several things better than any laptop on the market:

1. Browse the web
2. Read books and magazines
3. Watch videos
4. Browse and share photos
5. Games
I'm sorry no.
A laptop can play games like Half Life, Portal and the other high rated PC and Mac games out there.
Videos? The iPad has a 4:3 display, other Apple laptops have widescreen displays better for watching videos on. Unless you're watching old TV shows (of course).
Sharing photos on a Mac is already quite easy. I can email them if I want, or if I have a very large collection I can run a Photoshop plugin to generate a small site and upload through FTP.
Browsing the web would be better on a laptop, given the more open nature of Windows/OSX you can install plugins etc.

lanceh5
Mar 23, 2010, 02:28 PM
What is needed is the ability to emulate the iPad operating system in OSX. The best of all worlds. I think some of the iPad programs will be very useful even on a Mac.

drjsway
Mar 23, 2010, 03:01 PM
1. Browse the web-- we know it's not the best device for surfing the Web because it lacks Flash. Love it or hate it, you can't deny the fact that it's a standard, and as such it needs to be supported.
2. Read books and magazines-- maybe I'm not sure quite where you're going with this one, but if you read at 350 words per minute on an iPad, you're going to read at 350 words per minute on a laptop. If you can have animations around your text on an iPad, you can have them on a laptop. Not sure why you think the iPad is "better" at this.
3. Watch videos-- 4:3 display leaves huge black bars. Low-res display can't play true HD.
4. Browse and share photos-- yeah, because I'd much rather see photos on a 10" display than a larger laptop display with a higher-res screen.
5. Games-- certain games will have an advantage on the iPad, but only those that use either Multitouch or the accelerometer, things laptops don't have. So as I said in my previous post, the iPad is a $500 casual gaming device that won't fit in your pocket.

There is one reason why iPad does all these things better: Capacitive multi-touch display. It makes a far better experience than a trackpad or mouse.

Everyone who has touched an iPad has loved it. It's only detractors are people that haven't.

I predict my MBA usage will go down 80-90% after I get my iPad.

drjsway
Mar 23, 2010, 03:08 PM
I'm sorry no.
A laptop can play games like Half Life, Portal and the other high rated PC and Mac games out there.

Boring! There has been no innovation in PC gaming in the last ten years except better graphics. iPad's multi-touch and accelerometer allows for far more innovative gameplay.

Videos? The iPad has a 4:3 display, other Apple laptops have widescreen displays better for watching videos on. Unless you're watching old TV shows (of course).
Sharing photos on a Mac is already quite easy. I can email them if I want, or if I have a very large collection I can run a Photoshop plugin to generate a small site and upload through FTP.
Browsing the web would be better on a laptop, given the more open nature of Windows/OSX you can install plugins etc.

None of these things make extensive use of a keyboard and having it there is a CON, not a PRO. Manipulating photos directly with a multi-touch display makes it a more enjoyable experience. Same with web browsing. Touching your links, icons, objects, etc, is a dream and faster than using a trackpad.

Dagless
Mar 23, 2010, 03:40 PM
Boring! There has been no innovation in PC gaming in the last ten years except better graphics. iPad's multi-touch and accelerometer allows for far more innovative gameplay.
You sound like someone who hasn't played games in the last 10 years. I'm in the same boat by the way, I prefer gameplay over graphics (my fave system this generation is the DS and PSP). But come on now. PC gaming has had much more than better graphics;
Realistic physics, explorable cities, vast worlds, massively multiplayer games, multiple input options, modifiable games.
If you want to talk about innovative gameplay go buy a 3D display and Novint Falcon. Leaps and bounds above what an iPad will be able to do.

None of these things make extensive use of a keyboard and having it there is a CON, not a PRO. Manipulating photos directly with a multi-touch display makes it a more enjoyable experience. Same with web browsing. Touching your links, icons, objects, etc, is a dream and faster than using a trackpad.
You're prepared to use an multitouch display over something as highly functional as Photoshop or Aperture, or heck I bet iPhoto will still be the better editor purely because the hardware its running on is better.
The browser is still not as good as any other browser on a real computer, there's so much more support on a laptop/computer! I honestly can't understand how anyone in their right mind can draw a comparison between a large mobile device and a real computer.

Guys, if I ever get this far gone could you please put me down? ;)

Jodles
Mar 23, 2010, 04:12 PM
Boring! There has been no innovation in PC gaming in the last ten years except better graphics. iPad's multi-touch and accelerometer allows for far more innovative gameplay.



None of these things make extensive use of a keyboard and having it there is a CON, not a PRO. Manipulating photos directly with a multi-touch display makes it a more enjoyable experience. Same with web browsing. Touching your links, icons, objects, etc, is a dream and faster than using a trackpad.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm sort of getting tired of the whole multi-touch thing. I think I'll find it a hassle after a while to move my whole arm to do simple things. It sounds really lazy, but think about it. I like being able to swipe my finger 3 cm on the trackpad on my mac and instantly be on the other side of the screen. Much more intelligent in my opinion.

And I'm getting tired of accelerometer-based games on my iPhone. A lot of games are best IMO with either a mouse or keyboard...

lifeinhd
Mar 23, 2010, 04:59 PM
Everyone who has touched an iPad has loved it. It's only detractors are people that haven't.

Do you want to know why? Because the only people who have touched one so far either a) work for Apple or b) make money when they say good things about it. And even then, they've only commented on how well it works; no one's talked about the practical aspect or why anyone should need one.

I predict my MBA usage will go down 80-90% after I get my iPad.

So basically, you're saying an iPad will do 80-90% of what you use your MacBook Air for. So considering you already own the Air, why not save $500 and use the Air for 100% of what you use the Air for? And don't say you can sell the Air once you get the iPad-- you said yourself that the iPad will only do 80-90% of what the Air will, so for that other 10-20% you'll still need to hang on to the Air.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm sort of getting tired of the whole multi-touch thing. I think I'll find it a hassle after a while to move my whole arm to do simple things. It sounds really lazy, but think about it. I like being able to swipe my finger 3 cm on the trackpad on my mac and instantly be on the other side of the screen. Much more intelligent in my opinion.

And I'm getting tired of accelerometer-based games on my iPhone. A lot of games are best IMO with either a mouse or keyboard...

I couldn't agree more. Honestly, you need two hands just to operate an iPad! You only need one hand to use an iPhone, unless you need to pinch. Grasping it by the sides, your thumb can still easily cover the entire screen. And of course it's even better with a trackpad, where you don't even need an entire hand-- just a finger.

And ditto on the accelerometer games. You get so much more control with with a mouse/trackpad/keyboard. Using the accelerometer for games is rather gimmicky, except maybe for games such as Labyrinth. But really, those driving games where you use the accelerometer to steer the car? I've stopped playing those because the control method is just so ridiculous.

What is needed is the ability to emulate the iPad operating system in OSX. The best of all worlds. I think some of the iPad programs will be very useful even on a Mac.

You can do this. The iPad emulator comes in the SDK.

But what I want to do is emulate OS X on the iPad. It might actually make the iPad useful.

ouimetnick
Mar 23, 2010, 05:26 PM
I have a MBA and I still have a need for an iPad. Even if Apple gave away the MBA for free, I would still also buy an iPad.

The iPad does several things better than any laptop on the market:

1. Browse the web
2. Read books and magazines
3. Watch videos
4. Browse and share photos
5. Games

Note that none of these things require extensive use of a keyboard. Besides doing everything better, it is also more portable/convenient to carry around and use. Multi-touch is also quicker for most tasks than a mouse/trackpad.

The ONLY advantage a laptop has at this point is for typing long documents or code.

It's not the true internet with out flash. Yes it sucks on the Mac, but Apple NEEDS to give Adobe the set of APIs so it can do rendering on the GPU not the CPU. I also want Java on my iPad. And Some laptops have a better display, thats also bigger to whatch video on it. Browse and share photos... Its nice on the iPhone, and will be the same on the pad, but I want to use PhotoShop or iPhoto to edit them. This "pad" is not for me sadly.

drjsway
Mar 23, 2010, 10:56 PM
Do you want to know why? Because the only people who have touched one so far either a) work for Apple or b) make money when they say good things about it.

Every journalist at the media event was invited to play with the device. These same journalists have said plenty of negative things about it but they all describe it as blazingly fast and enjoyable to use.


So basically, you're saying an iPad will do 80-90% of what you use your MacBook Air for. So considering you already own the Air, why not save $500 and use the Air for 100% of what you use the Air for? And don't say you can sell the Air once you get the iPad-- you said yourself that the iPad will only do 80-90% of what the Air will, so for that other 10-20% you'll still need to hang on to the Air.

I love my MBA to death but I believe the iPad does several things better and I feel these features are worth the $500. For example, I will do almost all of my web browsing on the iPad because I feel multi-touch is a more enjoyable experience than a trackpad for surfing the web. The cons (lack of flash) do not outweigh the pros.

While the iPad doesn't replace a laptop and isn't as functional, what it does do gives a more enjoyable experience. I also believe that most of what people do on a laptop does not require extensive use of a keyboard and having it there is a negative.

If you want to argue about redundant features, a MBA does everything a iPod does. Why buy an iPod? Because it's more portable and convenient? Well, the same applies to the iPad.

Dagless
Mar 23, 2010, 11:12 PM
If you want to argue about redundant features, a MBA does everything a iPod does. Why buy an iPod? Because it's more portable and convenient? Well, the same applies to the iPad.

The size difference between an iPod and MBA is quite vast. An iPod can be stored in a pocket, a MBA cannot. An iPad cant be stored in a pocket either and isn't much smaller (10" 4:3 display vs 13" 16:10) than a MBA. What you're suggesting is akin to comparing 2 similarly sized people carriers to a Mini.

drjsway
Mar 23, 2010, 11:21 PM
PC gaming has had much more than better graphics;Realistic physics, explorable cities, vast worlds, massively multiplayer games, multiple input options, modifiable games.

We are not comparing gaming on iPad versus desktop. We are comparing gaming on iPad versus laptop. Gaming on a laptop is a terrible experience. Less than 2 hour battery life, overheating GPUs, and laptops that will play modern games are heavy and bulky.


You're prepared to use an multitouch display over something as highly functional as Photoshop or Aperture, or heck I bet iPhoto will still be the better editor purely because the hardware its running on is better.

Of course media creation is better on a laptop. Media consuming, however, is better on an iPad. How can you argue that viewing photos isn't better on a iPad? You can hold it and flip through it just like a photo album.

It's not the true internet with out flash. Yes it sucks on the Mac, but Apple NEEDS to give Adobe the set of APIs so it can do rendering on the GPU not the CPU. I also want Java on my iPad. And Some laptops have a better display, thats also bigger to whatch video on it.

Besides lack of flash, how is the browser deficient? There is java on the iPad. And if Adobe does get its act together, it's a simple software upgrade to enable flash on iPad. I wouldn't want flash in its current form anyway. Flash on my MBA lowers the battery life by 60-70%.

What laptops have a better display than the iPad's gorgeous IPS display? When it comes to image quality, resolution is 5th in importance, behind color, black level, contrast, and brightness.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm sort of getting tired of the whole multi-touch thing. I think I'll find it a hassle after a while to move my whole arm to do simple things. It sounds really lazy, but think about it. I like being able to swipe my finger 3 cm on the trackpad on my mac and instantly be on the other side of the screen. Much more intelligent in my opinion.

If you want to touch something on the other side of the screen, just use your other hand. I'll probably have both hands on the side of the device most of the time and just use my thumbs to touch icons on the screen.

drjsway
Mar 23, 2010, 11:44 PM
The size difference between an iPod and MBA is quite vast. An iPod can be stored in a pocket, a MBA cannot. An iPad cant be stored in a pocket either and isn't much smaller (10" 4:3 display vs 13" 16:10) than a MBA. What you're suggesting is akin to comparing 2 similarly sized people carriers to a Mini.

A MBA is 2x heavier than an iPad and 1.6x the size.

By comparison, a MBP is only 1.5x heavier than a MBA and has similar dimensions, yet most people feel the difference and are willing to pay a huge premium for the MBA.

Ries
Mar 24, 2010, 03:36 AM
Find it funny when people says ipad is nice for games... cause almost all simple "online" games i see people playing are flash and free... compared to whatever ipad uses and at a cost. Even if apple added flash, most games would be hard to control unless specially designed for the ipad (try throwing a monkey as fast as you can with a touch screen, unless you oil your finger, you're gonna get burns to break the record).

scottness
Mar 24, 2010, 03:42 AM
If you increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad?

Absolutely... if the price were the same... but it's not.

robeddie
Mar 24, 2010, 04:22 AM
Every journalist at the media event was invited to play with the device. These same journalists have said plenty of negative things about it but they all describe it as blazingly fast and enjoyable to use.

I love my MBA to death but I believe the iPad does several things better and I feel these features are worth the $500. For example, I will do almost all of my web browsing on the iPad because I feel multi-touch is a more enjoyable experience than a trackpad for surfing the web. The cons (lack of flash) do not outweigh the pros.


Did you say you've already used an iPad? It sure sounds like it, otherwise you're putting a heck of a lot of faith in some reviewer you don't know.

I could see you saying all this in confidence once you yourself have played with an iPad for a bit, either at the store - or using a friends ... but until you've actually used it for a while yourself, for hours on end, I'm surprised you're so confident about how 'better' it will be.

Dagless
Mar 24, 2010, 06:52 AM
We are not comparing gaming on iPad versus desktop. We are comparing gaming on iPad versus laptop. Gaming on a laptop is a terrible experience. Less than 2 hour battery life, overheating GPUs, and laptops that will play modern games are heavy and bulky.
They also play real games. My 9400M runs Fallout 3 on medium-high settings just perfectly. Will the iPad be getting Fallout 3? I can run L4D2 on medium-high.
If my Macbook wanted to play games in similar quality to the iPad I wouldn't have to worry about overheating or GPU troubles.

Of course media creation is better on a laptop. Media consuming, however, is better on an iPad. How can you argue that viewing photos isn't better on a iPad? You can hold it and flip through it just like a photo album.
Because on my laptop I have a widescreen and higher resolution, better and larger display and still have multitouch for browsing. If I want to flip through I swipe (I think) 2 fingers across. Although it's more efficient and faster to just press left/right on the dpad.

FWIW I've only used IPS monitors for my desktop PC and Macs since 2005. Oddly enough I find them best for content creation, for displaying content I find LED etc much better.

Ries
Mar 24, 2010, 09:11 AM
I have a MBA and I still have a need for an iPad. Even if Apple gave away the MBA for free, I would still also buy an iPad.

The iPad does several things better than any laptop on the market:

1. Browse the web
2. Read books and magazines
3. Watch videos
4. Browse and share photos
5. Games

Note that none of these things require extensive use of a keyboard. Besides doing everything better, it is also more portable/convenient to carry around and use. Multi-touch is also quicker for most tasks than a mouse/trackpad.

The ONLY advantage a laptop has at this point is for typing long documents or code.

1. No
2. Maybe
3. No
4. Maybe
5. Hell no

And multi touch ain't faster and way less precise.

drjsway
Mar 24, 2010, 09:42 AM
Did you say you've already used an iPad? It sure sounds like it, otherwise you're putting a heck of a lot of faith in some reviewer you don't know.

I could see you saying all this in confidence once you yourself have played with an iPad for a bit, either at the store - or using a friends ... but until you've actually used it for a while yourself, for hours on end, I'm surprised you're so confident about how 'better' it will be.

No, I haven't used an iPad but I do have an iPhone. If the experience is exactly the same except with a bigger screen, I will be satisfied.

The argument works both ways. How can you criticize it without having used it?

With that said, let's save this discussion for until the iPad is released. I bet a lot of you who are skeptical will be surprised.

robeddie
Mar 24, 2010, 11:21 AM
No, I haven't used an iPad but I do have an iPhone. If the experience is exactly the same except with a bigger screen, I will be satisfied.

The argument works both ways. How can you criticize it without having used it?

With that said, let's save this discussion for until the iPad is released. I bet a lot of you who are skeptical will be surprised.

In all honestly, I'll bet you're right. Time and again Apple products that I thought seemed kind of 'meh' in theory turned out to be awesome once I actually got my hands on one.

aleni
Mar 24, 2010, 11:35 AM
all the ipad bashers will buy one once it's out anyway.

conniewilson11
Mar 24, 2010, 12:04 PM
If you increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad?

The Air's full keyboard, bigger screen, it's light and easy to carry does more with less effort and more convenience, right? I think so.

The iPad seems to be created for a market that doesn't yet exist and maybe doesn't need to exist? Now software developers and publishers are working to make their content iPad compatible which (I think) with the intention of getting us to pay for services, such as New York Times etc, things which we're getting free now browsing on a computer.

Do we need this new product and market that Apple seems to have created, the world's business climate needs it ... but does the consumer.

The iPad will not be as productive as device to use as compared to a MacBook Air, not yet anyway. Very very convenient yes ... but looks what's it's doing already, a whole new market of software, accessories, ipad bags, keyboards is here now...

What are we going to carry our iPad with our laptops on the way to work because it's convenient to take from your briefcase and read the newspaper, and then once we arrive at the office we have to reach in our bag for our laptop to get 'real work' done ... now you're carrying less instead of more.

I don't know, the big picture is us all having some kind of powerful ipad device in the future with no laptops in use I guess ... the iPad by then will likely do it all .... plug it into peripherals and it'll be a work horse.

The demise of the laptop as we know it? Or, is the iPad a product we didn't need in the first place, .... I wonder?

yes, entatlrg. I agree
increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad.
iPad is probably a product not needed in the market
in the first place.
just another shiny toy to have
and I still love it....:)

ddd269
Mar 24, 2010, 01:57 PM
yes, entatlrg. I agree
increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad.
iPad is probably a product not needed in the market
in the first place.
just another shiny toy to have
and I still love it....:)


Yes! Stop this non-sense. It's just another new toy for most of us. I get as many toys as I can, whenever I can. I don't plan to replace anything after I get the iPad. Probably redistribute the amount of time spent on my other machines, but will be just another toy.

I think of it like this - I have my fast German sedan (130mph+), big American SUV (480hp), and a motorcycle... Nobody argues or questions which does what better. I use a different vehicle depending on my mood. They all take me from point A to B just fine... Where it differs is how many passengers, how comfortable, how fast, and how safe. I'll use the best that fit my need or mood at the time. Isn't this the same thing with the MBA (or any other small profile device) and the iPad? :confused:

Have your big and powerful desktop, powerful notebook, portable notebook/netbook, iPhone, and now the iPad and wait for the next toy to add to your inventory. Your life is not an RPG game that only allows you to carry a limited number of things in your satchel. Have as many as you can. :D

mdatwood
Mar 24, 2010, 02:47 PM
Yes! Stop this non-sense. It's just another new toy for most of us. I get as many toys as I can, whenever I can. I don't plan to replace anything after I get the iPad. Probably redistribute the amount of time spent on my other machines, but will be just another toy.

I think of it like this - I have my fast German sedan (130mph+), big American SUV (480hp), and a motorcycle... Nobody argues or questions which does what better. I use a different vehicle depending on my mood. They all take me from point A to B just fine... Where it differs is how many passengers, how comfortable, how fast, and how safe. I'll use the best that fit my need or mood at the time. Isn't this the same thing with the MBA (or any other small profile device) and the iPad? :confused:

Have your big and powerful desktop, powerful notebook, portable notebook/netbook, iPhone, and now the iPad and wait for the next toy to add to your inventory. Your life is not an RPG game that only allows you to carry a limited number of things in your satchel. Have as many as you can. :D

I pretty much agree with you. People just get defensive about their choice to buy or not to buy. I think most can agree that an iPad isn't going to replace anyones computer. It's simply not made to do that. Typing on it looks awkward (but I'll hold out on a final judgement), and typing with some keyboard and then touching and going back and forth looks even worse. Remember that writing emails, chatting, FB updates is a huge part of a typical users daily computer use.

Personally, if I get an iPad it'll just be another gadget/toy I have around the house. It certainly won't change how I lived and travelled like the iPhone surprisingly did and I'm not going to carry around a 3rd device (iPhone + MBP already). If I need portable and won't need to work then it'll still be the iPhone all the way. If the iPhone won't handle my needs it means I have to do more than just consume content so I'll have the full power of my MBP.

Oh and to the person above about swiping as the best way to look at pictures lol. No, hooking a large TV up to a mac mini/apple TV is by far the best way to look at pictures.

lifeinhd
Mar 24, 2010, 08:27 PM
Every journalist at the media event was invited to play with the device. These same journalists have said plenty of negative things about it but they all describe it as blazingly fast and enjoyable to use.

Being fast and a joy to use doesn't mean it has a purpose.

I love my MBA to death but I believe the iPad does several things better and I feel these features are worth the $500. For example, I will do almost all of my web browsing on the iPad because I feel multi-touch is a more enjoyable experience than a trackpad for surfing the web. The cons (lack of flash) do not outweigh the pros.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I like not having to constantly switch devices. If I'm at my computer editing a video, I want to be able to stay at my computer when I check my email. And even if I were to surf the web on an iPad, I wouldn't want to have to switch to a computer each time I needed Flash.

While the iPad doesn't replace a laptop and isn't as functional, what it does do gives a more enjoyable experience. I also believe that most of what people do on a laptop does not require extensive use of a keyboard and having it there is a negative.

I use my keyboard more than my mouse most of the time, actually. From typing posts like this, to doing a simple command+s to save something, a keyboard is my input device of choice. Most computer users who have even slightly better than a "newb" level of skills use keyboard shortcuts all the time.

If you want to argue about redundant features, a MBA does everything a iPod does. Why buy an iPod? Because it's more portable and convenient? Well, the same applies to the iPad.

But it's not! An iPod fits in your pocket, something most people have on them every day, whether they want one or not. An iPad requires a whole separate bag to carry it in, which can be an inconvenience. Bags can get lost, stolen, crushed, forgotten... not to mention they're a nuisance. A pocket is with you all the time; there's nothing extra to remember, and unless you're an idiot and sit down with an iPod in your back pocket, the worst that can happen to it is it's pick-pocketed (or stolen out of your hand).

If you need to carry something so large that it requires a separate bag, why not at least use that bag to hold a device that has the maximum utility you can get?

A MBA is 2x heavier than an iPad and 1.6x the size.

A MBA can do an ∞ amount more than an iPad. 2x the weight and a slightly larger footprint are more than worth it. You need to consider all that you're getting for only slightly more heft.

By comparison, a MBP is only 1.5x heavier than a MBA and has similar dimensions, yet most people feel the difference and are willing to pay a huge premium for the MBA.

A low-end 13" MacBook Pro costs $1199. A low-end MacBook Air costs $1499. The $300 difference is hardly a "huge premium," especially when you're willing to spend that much on a computer as it is.

drjsway
Mar 25, 2010, 03:28 AM
Being fast and a joy to use doesn't mean it has a purpose.

The purpose is to have fun.

I use my keyboard more than my mouse most of the time, actually. From typing posts like this, to doing a simple command+s to save something, a keyboard is my input device of choice. Most computer users who have even slightly better than a "newb" level of skills use keyboard shortcuts all the time.

When I say "extensive keyboard use", I meant typing long documents or code. The on-screen keyboard is fine for posts on a message board. I type 40-45WPM on the iPhone (with perfect grammar and punctuation) and I expect to get at least that on the iPad. In fact, I am typing this post on an iPhone and don't feel that it's slowing me down.

An OS built for multi-touch displays eliminates the need for keyboard shortcuts altogether.

If you need to carry something so large that it requires a separate bag, why not at least use that bag to hold a device that has the maximum utility you can get?

1.5 vs 3 pounds makes a big difference to me. I look forward to not having to bring a laptop for weekend trips when I don't need to do heavy computing. Also, the form factor is makes a huge difference.

With a laptop, you need to sit down, place on your lap, and open it. On an iPad, you just grab it with one hand and continue reading a website you had open earlier while you walk to the kitchen. I must not be the only one who likes to browse the web while walking around my house.

Dagless
Mar 25, 2010, 05:57 AM
The purpose is to have fun.
Congrats if this is what you look for in a computer.
It's fun to get a cheap Polaroid and take photos, but you wouldn't use that for professional work or even as a hobby. Would you?

I type 40-45WPM on the iPhone (with perfect grammar and punctuation)... the form factor is makes a huge difference.
Heh, yea.

With a laptop, you need to sit down, place on your lap, and open it. On an iPad, you just grab it with one hand and continue reading a website you had open earlier while you walk to the kitchen. I must not be the only one who likes to browse the web while walking around my house.

And that is really a problem? I keep my Macbook on my bedside table. It takes around... 10 seconds to lift it from there, place it on my lap and open it up where it instantly wakes from sleep. Is this hindering me in any way? No. The speed of which a laptop is operable and the faster nature of a physical keyboard negates the incessantly long setup time before I can use my computer.
As for the weight; I carried around a PB for years weighing around twice as much as my current Macbook. When it's in my Crumpler bag the noticeable weight difference is negligible.

gwsat
Mar 25, 2010, 11:39 AM
I think the dichotomy, demonstrated in this thread, between those who view computers, iPhones, iPads, etc., as toys and those of use who view them as tools is fascinating. I agree with those of you who view the iPad as a neat toy. It is certainly that, so I certainly understand the thinking of those who are going to buy one right away. I am not, however, because the iPad is so small it lacks a keyboard, has only a 9.56 inch display, and yet is too large to be carried in a pocket. No thanks, then, the iPad is not for me.

I have lusted for an ultraportable 13 inch computer ever since the MBA was introduced. Unfortunately, I run a bunch of Windows apps on my MBP, thanks to Windows 7, VMware Fusion, and a bunch of memory. Because the MBA's RAM is limited to the 2Gb hardwired into it, I couldn't use it, or at least not comfortably. When I ran Windows and Fusion on my MBA with only 2Gb of RAM, Windows apps were both slow and unstable. Thus, I can't imagine that I would have any better luck with the MBA.

The foregoing frustrates me because at the moment Apple doesn't have a product that would work for me. The iPad is too small and too limited and the MBA lacks the RAM to do for me what I would need it to do. Even the impressive ultraportable Sony Z i7 wouldn't work for me. Why not? It won't run OS X, which ends the inquiry as far as I am concerned.

The only good news is that the AppleCare coverage on my MBP has the better part of a year to run, so I can afford to wait to see what comes next, and maybe the next time after that.

Scottsdale
Mar 25, 2010, 12:07 PM
The foregoing frustrates me because at the moment Apple doesn't have a product that would work for me. The iPad is too small and too limited and the MBA lacks the RAM to do for me what I would need it to do.

Not to worry.

Yours truly, Sir Steve

halledise
Mar 25, 2010, 01:29 PM
macbook air sucks, it just looks nice, cant even do casual computing, its more like a faster netbook

do you actually own one?:D

gwsat
Mar 25, 2010, 01:38 PM
Not to worry.

Yours truly, Sir Steve
ROFL! Promises, promises. Put your money where your mouth is, Stevey baby! :)

halledise
Mar 25, 2010, 08:42 PM
The purpose is to have fun.
1.5 vs 3 pounds makes a big difference to me. I look forward to not having to bring a laptop for weekend trips when I don't need to do heavy computing.

should get to the gym more Ö Ö:D

Scottsdale
Mar 26, 2010, 01:33 AM
should get to the gym more Ö Ö:D

True. The MBA is about the same weight by the time the iPad and its accessories are thrown into a bag. The MBA is slightly less portable, but it's a hell of a lot more functional.

What I find amazing is the willingness of people to buy all of the accessories that contradict the whole iPad experience. Add a keyboard dock that makes the iPad sit upright so it's not easy to work with the touch screen interface. How many times will they smear the display with fingerprints? How many times will they knock the iPad over after not touching the iPad lightly enough? Seems like they will need a bluetooth mouse too, but no the mouse doesn't work with the iPad? Why would they want a cover that ruins the experience? Then they have to remove the cover to connect to their keyboard dock. Then they have various assortments of cables which don't really allow them to connect to a TV with no video port... doesn't have any USB inputs to interface with cameras and other peripherals. So, people are going to throw all of this into a bag, and it carry it everywhere and have a worse experience than the MBA could provide. All for a device that cannot even surf the web.

I will use the MBA on the go... and an iPad will be a toy that I can show off and see if it somehow will provide a better experience for anything my MBA can already do... but I don't expect it to be better than the MBA at anything other than as a book reader and an away from home movie viewer (for content I am willing to pay for). What I expect is the iPad will go right in the MBA's bag when I am traveling. When I am on a plane, I will watch a few movies on the iPad. When I want to read a book, I will read an iBook on the iPad. When I want to work, I will use the MBA. When I want to check email on the go, I will use the iPhone. When I want to find a business in the back of a cab, I will use the iPhone. When I want to make a call, I will use the iPhone. When I want to take a photo and send it to a friend, I will use the iPhone. When I want to play a game on the go, I will use the iPhone. When I want to surf the web, I will use the MBA. When I want to run an app, I will run it on the MBA. When I want to type, I will do it on the MBA. It's this simple... the MBA is for work, web, and free entertainment (Flash capable)... the iPad is for movies (those I'm willing to pay for) and iBooks reading... the iPhone is for all communications.

There is a little bit of overlap, but each device has a specific purpose that I am willing to pay for. If I don't end up using the iPad, it will go to the kids or stay on the coffee table as a conversation piece - or it will be used by guests to check their email or browse for movie times or find something to do for the night like find a restaurant.

I see a place for the iPad, but I don't see it replacing the MBA for a long time.

drjsway
Mar 26, 2010, 04:37 AM
True. The MBA is about the same weight by the time the iPad and its accessories are thrown into a bag. The MBA is slightly less portable, but it's a hell of a lot more functional.

What I find amazing is the willingness of people to buy all of the accessories that contradict the whole iPad experience.

I am not buying a single accessory (not even a case) and I don't think the majority of people are either.

BTW, "you need to go to the gym" arguments are ridiculous. I can argue that if you need a MBA over a 17" MBP, you need to go to the gym. If you can't pick up a 27" iMac, you need to go the gym. Lighter is always better. That's why I have an iPod shuffle. Are you saying that an iPod nano is too heavy for me?

The iPod shuffle is good comparison, actually. It's a crippled and less functional version of bigger iPods. Even the biggest iPod fits in your pocket so, according to people here, it is not more portable. Yet they are still selling like hotcakes.

So, people are going to throw all of this into a bag, and it carry it everywhere and have a worse experience than the MBA could provide. All for a device that cannot even surf the web.

It can surf the web just fine. You are a little shortsighted. The future is flash free and Apple will accelerate the process. CBS and NBC has HTML5 versions of their site and ABC is following. Hulu and all the others are next. In six months, flash will be dead.

My friend, a photographer, has his whole website designed in flash. When he heard that the iPad won't display it, he immediately started redesigning it without flash. Most companies have this mindset.

lifeinhd
Mar 26, 2010, 05:41 AM
True. The MBA is about the same weight by the time the iPad and its accessories are thrown into a bag. The MBA is slightly less portable, but it's a hell of a lot more functional.

What I find amazing is the willingness of people to buy all of the accessories that contradict the whole iPad experience. Add a keyboard dock that makes the iPad sit upright so it's not easy to work with the touch screen interface. How many times will they smear the display with fingerprints? How many times will they knock the iPad over after not touching the iPad lightly enough? Seems like they will need a bluetooth mouse too, but no the mouse doesn't work with the iPad? Why would they want a cover that ruins the experience? Then they have to remove the cover to connect to their keyboard dock. Then they have various assortments of cables which don't really allow them to connect to a TV with no video port... doesn't have any USB inputs to interface with cameras and other peripherals. So, people are going to throw all of this into a bag, and it carry it everywhere and have a worse experience than the MBA could provide. All for a device that cannot even surf the web.

I will use the MBA on the go... and an iPad will be a toy that I can show off and see if it somehow will provide a better experience for anything my MBA can already do... but I don't expect it to be better than the MBA at anything other than as a book reader and an away from home movie viewer (for content I am willing to pay for). What I expect is the iPad will go right in the MBA's bag when I am traveling. When I am on a plane, I will watch a few movies on the iPad. When I want to read a book, I will read an iBook on the iPad. When I want to work, I will use the MBA. When I want to check email on the go, I will use the iPhone. When I want to find a business in the back of a cab, I will use the iPhone. When I want to make a call, I will use the iPhone. When I want to take a photo and send it to a friend, I will use the iPhone. When I want to play a game on the go, I will use the iPhone. When I want to surf the web, I will use the MBA. When I want to run an app, I will run it on the MBA. When I want to type, I will do it on the MBA. It's this simple... the MBA is for work, web, and free entertainment (Flash capable)... the iPad is for movies (those I'm willing to pay for) and iBooks reading... the iPhone is for all communications.

There is a little bit of overlap, but each device has a specific purpose that I am willing to pay for. If I don't end up using the iPad, it will go to the kids or stay on the coffee table as a conversation piece - or it will be used by guests to check their email or browse for movie times or find something to do for the night like find a restaurant.

I see a place for the iPad, but I don't see it replacing the MBA for a long time.

Your first paragraph was great, made loads of sense... but it all came apart in the second paragraph.

You say you're going to buy an iPad for movies and iBooks. You also say you'll always have the MBA and iPad together. So why would you want to watch movies on a 10" 4:3 screen as opposed to the 13" 16:10 screen you'll have with you as well? And iBooks... if all it is to you, then, is an eBook reader, why not save a couple hundred dollars and get a Kindle? You'll get several weeks of battery, ability to download eBooks anywhere, etc, and depending on which rumors you believe, books will be cheaper or the same price on a Kindle. Or, if you don't mind the form factor, you can even get eBooks on your Air, and have even less to carry.

Scottsdale
Mar 26, 2010, 08:39 AM
I am not buying a single accessory (not even a case) and I don't think the majority of people are either.

BTW, "you need to go to the gym" arguments are ridiculous. I can argue that if you need a MBA over a 17" MBP, you need to go to the gym. If you can't pick up a 27" iMac, you need to go the gym. Lighter is always better. That's why I have an iPod shuffle. Are you saying that an iPod nano is too heavy for me?

The iPod shuffle is good comparison, actually. It's a crippled and less functional version of bigger iPods. Even the biggest iPod fits in your pocket so, according to people here, it is not more portable. Yet they are still selling like hotcakes.

It can surf the web just fine. You are a little shortsighted. The future is flash free and Apple will accelerate the process. CBS and NBC has HTML5 versions of their site and ABC is following. Hulu and all the others are next. In six months, flash will be dead.

My friend, a photographer, has his whole website designed in flash. When he heard that the iPad won't display it, he immediately started redesigning it without flash. Most companies have this mindset.

First, I never made the "gym" argument, so go elsewhere with your quote and reply. Take your ridiculous BS and shove it. Honestly, do a little research and see who made the statement before you go accusing me of somehow offending you - maybe lighten up a bit. Quite honestly, you have downright pissed me off. How many times do you ever see me making personal attacks here or calling people names or shortsighted or whatever on these forums just because they don't agree with me?

People need to take a chill. We're not talking Communism vs. Democracy... nor Abortion vs. Pro life... We're debating MBA vs. iPad. It's not that important that we need to call people names. I get sick of the damn disgusting comments people make on these forums all the time when someone attacks their favorite Apple product or points out a truth about a product's shortcomings. We are discussing technology not people. I am not here to attack anybody, why the hell do people think they can go ahead and tell people off and call them names... all over your furor to a damn comment I never made!

I already pre-ordered the iPad myself too, so don't go tell me that I don't get it or I don't know the facts of the product. I get the whole thing. I am looking forward to it, but it doesn't mean I am going to throw my MBA away. It also doesn't mean I cannot see where the iPad has serious limitations.

BTW, I think the long term success of the iPad will be amazing and bigger than the iPhone and iPod Touch. I see them being used for so many things not even thought of yet, and the App Store is where the real breakthroughs will come. It's the App Store that drives the innovation and app development then drives sales of the iPad. The App Store doesn't make Apple a bunch of money from its 30% cut of the app sales... the Apps make the innovation and uses of the products more specific to the end user. The desire to buy and use the apps actually drives sales of iPod Touches and iPhones unimaginably, and it will work even better with the iPad.

In the short-term, I find its lack of power and ability to surf the web troubling. In addition, I don't feel like many people will be happy when they learn they have to pay for every bit of content on their iPad and learn just how big the Flash loss truly is to their surfing. I don't believe most people are aware that Flash isn't just videos and banner ads. People just don't care now, but I think they will care when their iPad doesn't do what they really need it to do on occasion.

The bottom line is I like to argue both sides of the issue. I find a lot of the iPads inabilities easy to fix. In the long run HTML5 and h.264 will provide an acceptable solution - the problem is in the short term, Apple doesn't have any way to display the Flash content whether it's a video, navigation, an intro page or an advertisement. Flash isn't going to be removed from the Internet in six months - maybe five years (no not even then). Even then, why should we remove Flash unless it's actually inferior to a better solution. The recent Flash vs. HTML5 and h.264 testing results showed the same performance where both apps had access to hardware decoding. Flash isn't evil and neither is Adobe. But at least Apple can be happy knowing that Adobe doesn't beat it at web graphics player technologies - that's really how stupid this whole thing is. Jobs doesn't like Adobe and cannot accept Flash as a standard, so he is going to bring it down and call it crap software.

Do you realize how many small business, entrepreneur, and even text-based sites there are on the web that use Flash for an introduction, graphics, or even the navigation bar? Those are not going to be changed out in six months. At least 90% of them will not even know an iPad cannot view their site. How many went and removed Flash from their sites with the iPod Touch and iPhone releases? About as close to none as is possible. A year ago, 98% of all devices that connected to the Internet had Flash installed and where fully capable of displaying Flash content. The bottom line is it's going to cost a lot of money to rid the Internet of Flash. If I owned a small business, I wouldn't change my website for less than 1% of Internet users using iPad/iPhone... and probably wouldn't change anything unless I owned a tech based company with heavy Apple product users buying my products or services or sold products and services that worked with Apple products. Otherwise, there's very little reason to rid the Internet of Flash. It's not worth small business owners money to change out Flash. About the only thing I would do is remove Flash from homepage graphics and ensure navigation was acceptable. I definitely wouldn't remove video content being displayed by Flash. The bottom line is Flash is an accepted standard whether Apple likes it or not.

Please do not take it as a personal attack that I can argue against the iPad and in favor of the MBA when it comes to this debate. At the same time, I am buying an iPad, and already committed the money to Apple via a pre-order. I will have it day one, because I am an Apple fan. In addition, my AAPL pays for my Apple products. If I didn't own AAPL, I probably couldn't afford Apple products, LOL.

Scottsdale
Mar 26, 2010, 08:58 AM
Your first paragraph was great, made loads of sense... but it all came apart in the second paragraph.

You say you're going to buy an iPad for movies and iBooks. You also say you'll always have the MBA and iPad together. So why would you want to watch movies on a 10" 4:3 screen as opposed to the 13" 16:10 screen you'll have with you as well? And iBooks... if all it is to you, then, is an eBook reader, why not save a couple hundred dollars and get a Kindle? You'll get several weeks of battery, ability to download eBooks anywhere, etc, and depending on which rumors you believe, books will be cheaper or the same price on a Kindle. Or, if you don't mind the form factor, you can even get eBooks on your Air, and have even less to carry.

Um, I will decide how I use my iPad, iPhone, and MBA. I don't need anyone else telling me that my preferences are incorrect. It all comes down to personal preference.

Yes, if I am on a plane or in bed I THINK I would rather watch a movie on an iPad. I don't have it yet. We're talking about overlap of abilities here. The iPad has a 9.6" IPS display. While it's 4:3, it's not going to display an HD movie distorted in 4:3. It's not as big, but it also doesn't have a keyboard in the way so it can be held closer to the eyes and doesn't have to sit on a lap or table.

Again, it's my PREFERENCE to use an iPad and not a Kindle or Nook to read on. I considered those, but I would rather give my money to Apple. I like the look of Apple's products much better. I like the multifunction of the iPad whether I plan to use every function all the time. I know that it can do basic tasks like light Internet, brief email replies, games and etc if I want to use it for those, but most of the time I will have an iPhone on the go too.

For work, a keyboard is absolutely necessary. I am not going to type out a book, client plan, or even reply to MR threads on the iPad. The MBA is a work tool. The iPad is an entertainment device. The iPhone is a communication device. Sure, I could just use the MBA to do most of what the iPad will do, but I want the iPad - that's a good thing. I want the iPad even though I know the MBA is far more capable. Just like I know the iPad is slightly more capable than an iPhone, but the iPad will not work as well for communications and isn't as portable. The iPad will provide a better experience for reading books and watching movies for the way I wish to use them. I don't think it seems that crazy. I am not exactly hurting for money so I cannot pay for either. My AAPL easily pays for my Apple product addictions.

I don't care about having less to carry the four to six days per month I usually travel. We're talking a whole extra 1.5 lb in my bag. It's not like I am taking both the MBA and iPad to the gym with me. It's not like I am taking the MBA and iPad both to work with me. It's that when I am traveling, I would prefer to use an iPad for entertainment. I don't want the MBA's keyboard in the way when I am watching a movie or reading a book. If you think about it, the iPad will actually feel bigger to view because it doesn't have a keyboard in the way so you can place it closer to your eyes for the exact size you want the display within your vision. At 12" from your face, I assume it will look bigger than the MBA sitting on an airline tray table.

In the end, I want to spend the money, and I don't give a damn about the $700 nor the extra 1.5 lb to carry in my bag when I am traveling across the country. It seems pretty obvious to me that while a lot of the features of these Apple products overlap but one product might result in a better user experience for certain tasks... for me, an iPad is for entertainment on the go or in bed. If I am on the couch, the LCD TV does the job better for movie viewing, but the iPad still works better for reading an eBook.

pmz
Mar 26, 2010, 10:53 AM
Better at what?

Web? No
Email? Yes
Photos? No
Music? Same
Video? No
Ebooks? lol No
Games? blololol No

Apps? what apps? No

ddd269
Mar 26, 2010, 02:09 PM
Um, I will decide how I use my iPad, iPhone, and MBA. I don't need anyone else telling me that my preferences are incorrect. It all comes down to personal preference.

Yes, if I am on a plane or in bed I THINK I would rather watch a movie on an iPad. I don't have it yet. We're talking about overlap of abilities here. The iPad has a 9.6" IPS display. While it's 4:3, it's not going to display an HD movie distorted in 4:3. It's not as big, but it also doesn't have a keyboard in the way so it can be held closer to the eyes and doesn't have to sit on a lap or table.


You forgot to mention that a MBA can not finish a 2hr+ movie on a single charge...

Side note on the 4:3 display... Beside the strange look of a widescreen tablet, wouldn't a widescreen format media, show it's proper ratio on an iPad with horizontal bars top and bottom? In this case, the screen would display, approximately, as a 7" widescreen, right??? Which is acceptable to me. Screen aspect ratio is a trivial matter to me, as no "one" format is a do it all. Maybe in the future where more and more media gets produced widescreen(EDIT: replaced 16:9) centric, this won't be an issue Displaying 4:3 on 16:9 monitor is not fun either... So, which is better, vertical black bars or horizontal? :D

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 02:18 PM
People need to take a chill. We're not talking Communism vs. Democracy... nor Abortion vs. Pro life... We're debating MBA vs. iPad. It's not that important that we need to call people names. I get sick of the damn disgusting comments people make on these forums all the time when someone attacks their favorite Apple product or points out a truth about a product's shortcomings.
Your understandable reaction to another poster's emotional, to me at least, defense of the iPad brings something else to mind. Ever since I again started posting regularly here, I have noticed that too many posters seem to be ill-informed and angrily defensive, and demonstrate a mental age of about 14. Fortunately, however, they represent a minority of those who post here. Most seem to be courteous, cool-headed, and well informed.

As already noted in an earlier post, for my purposes the iPad's weaknesses outweigh its strengths. Thus, unless later developments change my mind, I won't be buying one.

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 02:27 PM
Side note on the 4:3 display... Beside the strange look of a widescreen tablet, wouldn't a widescreen format media, show it's proper ratio on an iPad with horizontal bars top and bottom? In this case, the screen would display, approximately, as a 7" widescreen, right??? Which is acceptable to me. Screen aspect ratio is a trivial matter to me, as no "one" format is a do it all. Maybe in the future where more and more media gets produced 16:9 centric, this won't be an issue Displaying 4:3 on 16:9 monitor is not fun either... So, which is better, vertical black bars or horizontal? :D
Virtually all HD shows are filmed in 16:9 format and 1.85:1 movies are shown 16:9, which requires no significant cropping of the horizontal aspect of the film. 2.35:1 movies, though, if shown in their original aspect ratio, are shown with black bars at the top and bottom of the image. As a practical matter, it seems to me that about as many movies are released with a ratio of 1.85:1 as are released with a ratio of 2.35:1.

I don't want to watch a movie on any handheld screen when I can see it on a Blu-ray disc displayed on a big screen HDTV. Finally, though, I agre with you that the aspect ratio used on any film viewed on an iPad's tiny screen should be regarded as a trivial matter.

drjsway
Mar 26, 2010, 02:41 PM
First, I never made the "gym" argument, so go elsewhere with your quote and reply. Take your ridiculous BS and shove it. Honestly, do a little research and see who made the statement before you go accusing me of somehow offending you - maybe lighten up a bit. Quite honestly, you have downright pissed me off. How many times do you ever see me making personal attacks here or calling people names or shortsighted or whatever on these forums just because they don't agree with me?

People need to take a chill. We're not talking Communism vs. Democracy... nor Abortion vs. Pro life... We're debating MBA vs. iPad. It's not that important that we need to call people names. I get sick of the damn disgusting comments people make on these forums all the time when someone attacks their favorite Apple product or points out a truth about a product's shortcomings. We are discussing technology not people. I am not here to attack anybody, why the hell do people think they can go ahead and tell people off and call them names... all over your furor to a damn comment I never made!

You are the one that needs to chill. I didn't say you made the gym comment. I just said gym arguments, in general, are ridiculous and you replied "True" indicating you agreed with it. When did I personally attack you or call you a name? Saying I think you are shortsighted here is just my opinion, not an attack or a name, and didn't deserve that angered response. Calling someone a "moron" or an "idiot" is calling someone a name. Shortsighted, on the other hand, is used in debates all the time.

ddd269
Mar 26, 2010, 02:58 PM
Virtually all HD shows are filmed in 16:9 format and 1.85:1 movies are shown 16:9, which requires no significant cropping of the horizontal aspect of the film. 2.35:1 movies, though, if shown in their original aspect ratio, are shown with black bars at the top and bottom of the image. As a practical matter, it seems to me that about as many movies are released with a ratio of 1.85:1 as are released with a ratio of 2.35:1.

I don't want to watch a movie on any handheld screen when I can see it on a Blu-ray disc displayed on a big screen HDTV. Finally, though, I agre with you that the aspect ratio used on any film viewed on an iPad's tiny screen should be regarded as a trivial matter.

True... I too, rather watch any HD media on my big screen.

Your comment actually made me remember something that was on my mind while reading this thread from the beginning... I'll probably keep the iPad in my bathroom stacked right next to my magazines (the same magazines that will probably disappear as more and more of them become digital versions. At least I would prefer them in digital version because I travel so much) and stop taking my iPhone or MBA to the bathroom when I go do my business. :p

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 03:47 PM
True... I too, rather watch any HD media on my big screen.
Yeah, there were a couple of threads over in the MacbookPro/Powerbook Forum where a number of posters thought that Apple was being irresponsible by not putting Blu-ray burners in the Macbook Pro, instead of DVDs. When I said that I thought Apple had a point, they went nuts. Those of us with decent home theater setups understand that the remarkable visual and aural experience one gets from a BD seen in a decent home theater can't be duplicated on a laptop, or even come close to it. That led me to conclude, as Apple has, that putting BD players in its laptops need not be a high priority. Some of the guys, though, not to put too fine a point on it, disagreed robustly. :)

Dagless
Mar 26, 2010, 05:36 PM
Yeah, there were a couple of threads over in the MacbookPro/Powerbook Forum where a number of posters thought that Apple was being irresponsible by not putting Blu-ray burners in the Macbook Pro, instead of DVDs. When I said that I thought Apple had a point, they went nuts. Those of us with decent home theater setups understand that the remarkable visual and aural experience one gets from a BD seen in a decent home theater can't be duplicated on a laptop, or even come close to it. That led me to conclude, as Apple has, that putting BD players in its laptops need not be a high priority. Some of the guys, though, not to put too fine a point on it, disagreed robustly. :)

BluRay isn't just to play back BluRay films, you can burn discs too with 25gb storage. That's probably why people want them in their computers (I'm one of them).

Alchematron
Mar 26, 2010, 06:19 PM
If you increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad?


And made it 10"

I would buy no prob

Clix Pix
Mar 26, 2010, 06:34 PM
OK, so one night last week the weather was superb and the minute I walked in the door I knew that I wanted to sit out on my balcony and enjoy the warm air and the emergence of spring. I went into the the other room, disconnected the Magsafe from my first-gen MacBook Air, grabbed the mouse and mouse pad and set up the table on the balcony, firing up the MBA so that I could then relax and enjoy myself while catching up on emails and such. True, I wouldn't HAVE to have brought out the mouse and mousepad, as I can and do sometimes use my MBA's touchpad, but I still tend to prefer the mouse. Since I knew I wouldn't be out there all that long I figured I'd just run on battery and not worry about plugging in......

As I was doing all this prep, the thought kept going through my head, "wait until I've got the iPad!" With an iPad I can walk in the door, grab the iPad, step out on the balcony, sit down and as soon as I've touched the thing be ready to roll with my email and other stuff..... OK, fine, I probably won't be writing lengthy emails or responses to forum posts on the iPad if I'm just sitting out there with it, no dock or anything, but I'm sure I'll type at least short messages and I'll definitely enjoy the experience of not having to set anything up, just being able to get out there with it, press the home button and hop online, etc.

Only a week left now until I (and everyone else!) will know for sure just how our iPad experience is going to work for us.....

Do I think the iPad will totally replace my MBA or my MBP? No. I do think it will do some things very well so that I won't need to fire up one of those instead, and I'd be more inclined to tote it along in a bag with me when going out somewhere than I do even my MBA.

Just remains to be seen, this whole new device!

Cheffy Dave
Mar 26, 2010, 07:07 PM
DUH
It already is:rolleyes:

Scottsdale
Mar 26, 2010, 07:16 PM
You are the one that needs to chill. I didn't say you made the gym comment. I just said gym arguments, in general, are ridiculous and you replied "True" indicating you agreed with it. When did I personally attack you or call you a name? Saying I think you are shortsighted here is just my opinion, not an attack or a name, and didn't deserve that angered response. Calling someone a "moron" or an "idiot" is calling someone a name. Shortsighted, on the other hand, is used in debates all the time.

Go read your post to me again, and tell me that it doesn't read that you're blaming me!

Whatever...

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 07:52 PM
BluRay isn't just to play back BluRay films, you can burn discs too with 25gb storage. That's probably why people want them in their computers (I'm one of them).
Certainly the ability to burn BDs is important to some of you who are Mac owners but I suspect that you comprise only a small percentage of the total ownership. Nevertheless, I understand your position. At one time, I burned the majority of my DVDs to M4V files but finally got away from it. The problems involved with burning BDs in a way that would preserve the full video and audio quality of the disc are far more than I am willing to undertake. Anyway, my point wasn't that those of you who want BD burners in your Macs don't have a fair point because, certainly, you do. My position is merely that Apple's decision not to include BD burners in Macs was made for understandable reasons and fell far short of being a "betrayal" of Mac buyers. (I know that you didn't call it a "betrayal" but some of those I mentioned in my last post did do so.)

drjsway
Mar 26, 2010, 09:00 PM
Go read your post to me again, and tell me that it doesn't read that you're blaming me!

Whatever...

If it read that way to you, then I apologize. I wasn't "blaming" anyone. The "you need to go to the gym" argument has been posted countless times for many different products whenever there is a debate about weight. I was just pointing out how silly that argument is and it was directed at no one in particular (not even the guy who wrote it).

lifeinhd
Mar 26, 2010, 11:21 PM
It's not as big, but it also doesn't have a keyboard in the way so it can be held closer to the eyes and doesn't have to sit on a lap or table.

I can hold my iPod touch 2" away from my face and hey, I've got an iPad!

Your point?

ddd269
Mar 27, 2010, 10:33 AM
I can hold my iPod touch 2" away from my face and hey, I've got an iPad!

Your point?


Come on... you can't deny that an iPad can be held more comfortably than a MBA. I've read your posts and I'm a bit disappointed that you refuse to acknowledge the main advantages of the iPad. It's true that YOU may not prefer it, but refusing to see the advantages and shooting down a device is not right. No hard feelings, because I agree with many of your points but you're being stubborn to such an extreme that it's discrediting your good points... At least for me.

I'm a big fan of the MBA and it's a good all around portable device, but the iPad undeniably fills in the gap between the MBA and the iPhone/iPod touch. Whether that gap needs filling is entirely up to us. :D

Mindinversion
Mar 27, 2010, 10:57 AM
There is a phrase applied to devices such as the iPhone and iPad. This phrase is "walled garden". Essentially what it means is that with these devices, you are limited to the functionality and software the manufacturer expressly allows. Conversely, at any time the manufacturer decides to remove functionality or software, even things like purchased items, the owner of the device really has no say or legal recourse except to accept this control over their legally purchased hardware by a third party.

This also extends to advertising, Since exclusivity contracts between apple and any large corporation could lead to corporate competitor (and even small business) blacklisting. This in turn hampers freedom of choice, since [obviously] you can't make a reasonable comparison of companies if your device can only display the one that has paid millions to be in your face. [don't think it's coming? We'll see what "iAds" brings on Apr 7th, won't we?]

Now, many of you are going to say "it's not a laptop replacement", and to this I say: "yea, maybe to you" With most of the functionality of a note/netbook, how many of the unwashed computer illiterate buying ONLY for occasional web access and e-mail are going to use this in conjunction with a standard desktop/notebook? I know a LOT of people [mostly older] that absolutely HATE their computers, but grudgingly keep them around to keep in touch with their kids/grandkids.

So I have a device I can use only in the way the manufacturer tells me I can, ONLY with the software they allow me to access, and they can change at whim anything and everything I can access and do with my device. Or I can buy a fully functional machine that they can't "invade" unless I let them.

I know where MY dollars are going. /shrug

Scottsdale
Mar 27, 2010, 12:15 PM
Come on... you can't deny that an iPad can be held more comfortably than a MBA. I've read your posts and I'm a bit disappointed that you refuse to acknowledge the main advantages of the iPad. It's true that YOU may not prefer it, but refusing to see the advantages and shooting down a device is not right. No hard feelings, because I agree with many of your points but you're being stubborn to such an extreme that it's discrediting your good points... At least for me.

I'm a big fan of the MBA and it's a good all around portable device, but the iPad undeniably fills in the gap between the MBA and the iPhone/iPod touch. Whether that gap needs filling is entirely up to us. :D

Sure, IPS display with much clearer resolution in the iPad. One thing I do agree with though, one day we will probably all watch tv, movies, and especially 3D video in a pair of eyeglasses of sorts. It is the obvious revolutionary device that is definitely the future. Personally, I don't get why computer companies and media product manufacturers haven't jumped on it yet. Think of the energy savings to not display 13" of LCD but instead more like 2" of display.

I really believe it will offer a better experience, yet it's for the individual. I suppose movie theaters will still exist just where something pops down from above and offers a super high quality experience via moving seats, incredible sound, and even weather and air like effects as if one were at the site of the movie (sorta like something we would expect to find at Disney World, yet better). All on two separate inch diagonal displays a half an inch from our eyes.

Anyways, going back to your analogy, why not buy a 9.6" flat panel iPad and always keep it a foot from your eyes rather than buy a 60" flat panel HD 3D television? I think the iPad's IPS display will be far more impressive to view at 12" from eyes than an iPod at 2" or a 60" LCD at 12'.

Scottsdale
Mar 27, 2010, 12:33 PM
There is a phrase applied to devices such as the iPhone and iPad. This phrase is "walled garden". Essentially what it means is that with these devices, you are limited to the functionality and software the manufacturer expressly allows. Conversely, at any time the manufacturer decides to remove functionality or software, even things like purchased items, the owner of the device really has no say or legal recourse except to accept this control over their legally purchased hardware by a third party.

This also extends to advertising, Since exclusivity contracts between apple and any large corporation could lead to corporate competitor (and even small business) blacklisting. This in turn hampers freedom of choice, since [obviously] you can't make a reasonable comparison of companies if your device can only display the one that has paid millions to be in your face. [don't think it's coming? We'll see what "iAds" brings on Apr 7th, won't we?]

Now, many of you are going to say "it's not a laptop replacement", and to this I say: "yea, maybe to you" With most of the functionality of a note/netbook, how many of the unwashed computer illiterate buying ONLY for occasional web access and e-mail are going to use this in conjunction with a standard desktop/notebook? I know a LOT of people [mostly older] that absolutely HATE their computers, but grudgingly keep them around to keep in touch with their kids/grandkids.

So I have a device I can use only in the way the manufacturer tells me I can, ONLY with the software they allow me to access, and they can change at whim anything and everything I can access and do with my device. Or I can buy a fully functional machine that they can't "invade" unless I let them.

I know where MY dollars are going. /shrug

I agree with you. To many, this will be a MB replacement. In the future, the iPad will further explore the capabilities with both software and hardware fully capable of meeting the requirements of computing needs for most who use it. Right now, it's probably already powerful enough for most who use a computer as an entertainment device.

In the future, it will probably type out exactly what we're thinking without the need for a keyboard; okay, so maybe we will first move through true voice recognition technologies... which brings me to something I have been thinking for a few months - why doesn't Apple have voice recognition built into this iPad? I suppose it's so v 3,1 has an added feature that everyone has to have and will upgrade for.

Software is the true limitation of all computing devices right now. We don't need Nehalem (Arrandale) CPUs. What we need is advancement of software technologies to take advantage of the C2D CPUs we already have. If any bit of hardware needs upgrading, it's that every computer needs an SSD with faster throughput. The same thing applies to the iPad; the whole point of the App Store for the iPad is to drive demand for the iPad by allowing the app developers to create a demand for the iPad. We need the iPad to run the cool apps we see our friends use or on the commercials.

Finally, I told my parents that I had planned to buy them one for Christmas, and my Ma's reply was we wouldn't know how to use it. I said, it's the easiest device in the world to use. My Pop previously said he didn't want a Tivo because he wouldn't know how to use it. Within a few minutes of seeing how it worked, he realized the user interface was far easier than the VCR he had been using for the previous 15 years. He now pushes a button to get a season pass for his favorite shows and is no longer glued to the TV and watches the shows that interest him whenever he gets around to them; before, it was always a PITA to set the VCR so he just had to be in front of the TV ensuring he didn't miss the next moment - he even admitted to getting anxiety when trying to set the VCR to record the shows he wanted to see. Software is what drives the user demand, and I suppose Apple is the greatest innovator of technology because it gets the user interface just as Tivo gets it. Users want their interaction with computers to be simpler, and the iPad is even simpler than the Mac.

ddd269
Mar 27, 2010, 01:33 PM
I agree with you. To many, this will be a MB replacement. In the future, the iPad will further explore the capabilities with both software and hardware fully capable of meeting the requirements of computing needs for most who use it. Right now, it's probably already powerful enough for most who use a computer as an entertainment device.

In the future, it will probably type out exactly what we're thinking without the need for a keyboard; okay, so maybe we will first move through true voice recognition technologies... which brings me to something I have been thinking for a few months - why doesn't Apple have voice recognition built into this iPad? I suppose it's so v 3,1 has an added feature that everyone has to have and will upgrade for.

Software is the true limitation of all computing devices right now. We don't need Nehalem (Arrandale) CPUs. What we need is advancement of software technologies to take advantage of the C2D CPUs we already have. If any bit of hardware needs upgrading, it's that every computer needs an SSD with faster throughput. The same thing applies to the iPad; the whole point of the App Store for the iPad is to drive demand for the iPad by allowing the app developers to create a demand for the iPad. We need the iPad to run the cool apps we see our friends use or on the commercials.

Finally, I told my parents that I had planned to buy them one for Christmas, and my Ma's reply was we wouldn't know how to use it. I said, it's the easiest device in the world to use. My Pop previously said he didn't want a Tivo because he wouldn't know how to use it. Within a few minutes of seeing how it worked, he realized the user interface was far easier than the VCR he had been using for the previous 15 years. He now pushes a button to get a season pass for his favorite shows and is no longer glued to the TV and watches the shows that interest him whenever he gets around to them; before, it was always a PITA to set the VCR so he just had to be in front of the TV ensuring he didn't miss the next moment - he even admitted to getting anxiety when trying to set the VCR to record the shows he wanted to see. Software is what drives the user demand, and I suppose Apple is the greatest innovator of technology because it gets the user interface just as Tivo gets it. Users want their interaction with computers to be simpler, and the iPad is even simpler than the Mac.


Good post... Hope your parents enjoys their iPad. I'm thinking about getting one for my mom as well.

Dagless
Mar 27, 2010, 02:03 PM
Anyways, going back to your analogy, why not buy a 9.6" flat panel iPad and always keep it a foot from your eyes rather than buy a 60" flat panel HD 3D television? I think the iPad's IPS display will be far more impressive to view at 12" from eyes than an iPod at 2" or a 60" LCD at 12'.

I have a 46" Bravia in the living room and 42" Samsung in the bedroom. The most comfortable way of watching TV shows is on my 5.5G iPod on its tiny display.

IPS isn't the be-all end-all display though. I use them for my studio but they're not that great for watching TV shows/films on. That's when the rich deep colours of a large LCD or Plasma come in handy. I guess the point of an IPS in an iPad is for the wide angles required for a device that is likely to be viewed at all angles.

lifeinhd
Mar 27, 2010, 03:11 PM
Come on... you can't deny that an iPad can be held more comfortably than a MBA. I've read your posts and I'm a bit disappointed that you refuse to acknowledge the main advantages of the iPad. It's true that YOU may not prefer it, but refusing to see the advantages and shooting down a device is not right. No hard feelings, because I agree with many of your points but you're being stubborn to such an extreme that it's discrediting your good points... At least for me.

I fail to see any advantages, is all. I look at it and see Apple wanting $500 of my money so I can do things I can already do with devices I already own.

Also, I don't deny that the iPad can be held more comfortably that a MacBook Air; however, so can my iPod touch. If I want to surf while laying in bed, I can grab my touch; if I want to surf while on the couch, I can grab my laptop. Any sitting or standing position imaginable, I already have a device that covers it.

I'm a big fan of the MBA and it's a good all around portable device, but the iPad undeniably fills in the gap between the MBA and the iPhone/iPod touch. Whether that gap needs filling is entirely up to us. :D

If we assume there to indeed be a gap, the question is does the iPad fill it well? My answer is no; it's simply not the right tool for the job. I completely agree with Jobs that a device in the middle has to do certain things better than anything else; I also agree with the majority of his list. However, the way Apple implemented many of these "better" features is poorly thought out at best. Example: 4:3 screen for HD movies. Or the ubiquitous Flash argument. Also, there's no extra feature that really separates it from a MacBook or an iPhone and justifies the cost. You might argue eBooks, but if eBooks are what you want, you can either get the free Kindle app for your iPhone or PC/Mac, or you could buy a Kindle for $260 and save $240 over the iPad. I genuinely don't see the iPad as having *any* strengths.

Users want their interaction with computers to be simpler, and the iPad is even simpler than the Mac.

I know I'm going to sound like a complete ass now, but sometimes I wish computers were still difficult to use. I imagine we wouldn't see viruses, worms, malware, adware, spam, scams, or anything else that people make just because it's easy to do. I wish the same for cars; if we required people to pass a 200-question test, have 500 hours of driving, defensive driver classes, a certain reaction time, get rid of automatics, make cars harder to operate, etc, we would see much fewer accidents involving teenage girls who ran their cars into trees because they were texting and didn't notice the truck in front of them until the last minute. But I digress.

Dagless
Mar 27, 2010, 05:11 PM
If we assume there to indeed be a gap, the question is does the iPad fill it well? My answer is no; it's simply not the right tool for the job. I completely agree with Jobs that a device in the middle has to do certain things better than anything else; I also agree with the majority of his list. However, the way Apple implemented many of these "better" features is poorly thought out at best. Example: 4:3 screen for HD movies. Or the ubiquitous Flash argument. Also, there's no extra feature that really separates it from a MacBook or an iPhone and justifies the cost. You might argue eBooks, but if eBooks are what you want, you can either get the free Kindle app for your iPhone or PC/Mac, or you could buy a Kindle for $260 and save $240 over the iPad. I genuinely don't see the iPad as having *any* strengths.

I don't think it is intended for people like us who already have laptops or iPods. The iPad, as much as I (with my Macbook+iPod) would never, ever have a need for one is perfect for my grandparents. They bought a laptop but can't use it and since they only need the internet, have little need for large data storage and travel a lot - it's perfect for them!
But for me and probably most of the people on this forum we already have devices that fulfil the purpose of an iPad.

gwsat
Mar 27, 2010, 09:25 PM
I don't think it is intended for people like us who already have laptops or iPods. The iPad, as much as I (with my Macbook+iPod) would never, ever have a need for one is perfect for my grandparents. They bought a laptop but can't use it and since they only need the internet, have little need for large data storage and travel a lot - it's perfect for them!
But for me and probably most of the people on this forum we already have devices that fulfil the purpose of an iPad.
Dagless -- I agree completely. The iPad isn't really directed to people like the typical poster here, many of whom are IT professionals. I regard the iPad as a consumer device, which has a high "Gee whiz!" quotient, but is of little interest to those of us who are looking for computing tools.

lifeinhd
Mar 27, 2010, 11:02 PM
I don't think it is intended for people like us who already have laptops or iPods. The iPad, as much as I (with my Macbook+iPod) would never, ever have a need for one is perfect for my grandparents. They bought a laptop but can't use it and since they only need the internet, have little need for large data storage and travel a lot - it's perfect for them!
But for me and probably most of the people on this forum we already have devices that fulfil the purpose of an iPad.

Question: Why, then, are so many people who post here interested in it?

Huubster
Mar 28, 2010, 08:21 AM
Question: Why, then, are so many people who post here interested in it?

Because the state of affairs is currently such, that if Apple would release a smelly turd with a touchscreen people would also be interested in it.

gwsat
Mar 28, 2010, 08:35 AM
Question: Why, then, are so many people who post here interested in it?
I agree that a lot of posters here appear to interested in the iPad. For that matter, so am I. But being interested falls far short of actually buying one when the time comes. I think much of the interest here is being generated by the iPad's Wow! factor. As slick as I think the iPad is, and as much time as I have spent talking about it, the chances of me ever actually buying one are about 10 to 1 against. If Apple significantly improves the Macbook Air, though, there is a very good chance that I will buy one of them.

Dagless
Mar 28, 2010, 12:44 PM
Because the state of affairs is currently such, that if Apple would release a smelly turd with a touchscreen people would also be interested in it.

Bingo.
This forum is full of die hard fans. You've only got to look around this thread that has people claiming an iPad is better than the MBA. I've read some outrageous claims such as adding Bluray drive to a Mac is a bad idea, Steam on Mac is a bad idea because only kids play computer games, Apple shouldn't have included Bootcamp to keep their systems pure, people who won't buy Xbox 360's because Apple and Microsoft are competitors and admit they're missing out on good games for it. They're all such precious people :D.

gwsat
Mar 28, 2010, 02:30 PM
I've read some outrageous claims such as adding Bluray drive to a Mac is a bad idea:D.
I agree with most of what you said in your post but must say I haven't seen any posts claiming that "adding Bluray drive to a Mac is a bad idea." I have posted to the effect that I believe Apple's refusal, so far, to add BD drives to their laptops has been understandable and claims that the failure do do so was "a betrayal," or "outrageous," or -- well you get it -- are overreactions. Nevertheless, as BD burners become more common in other makers' laptops, Apple will inevitably be hurt if they stick with their current policy of no BD burners, no how, no time, no way. Even Apple ignores what the market tells it at its peril.

I suppose that I, too, am an Apple fanboy in some ways but I agree with what you and others have said that the iPad is not a satisfactory substitute for a real computer and an iPod.

Dagless
Mar 28, 2010, 03:00 PM
<snip>

Oh nonono, I didn't mean your post. During the numerous Bluray front page news posts some of the ultra fans claim Bluray as bad since it gives money to competitors against Apple, how it shortens battery life, how optical drives are going to quickly become redundant.

gwsat
Mar 28, 2010, 04:23 PM
Oh nonono, I didn't mean your post. During the numerous Bluray front page news posts some of the ultra fans claim Bluray as bad since it gives money to competitors against Apple, how it shortens battery life, how optical drives are going to quickly become redundant.
Well, the very idea that Blu-ray technology is bad simply because it is backed by Apple's competitors is silly, verging on nuts. I continue to believe that BDs are the wave of the future but still think that Apple's decision not to include BD burners makes sense -- so far.

Apple still needs to keep a careful watch on Blu-ray's continuing development. If I am right about that, then Apple is going to have to join the parade and put BD burners in its machines, as other manufacturers are already doing. Blu-ray continues to grow but still has a relatively low percentage of the disc market. Nevertheless, I think that is going to continue to change and change fast. For example, I saw recently that BD player sales have been increasing exponentially. That's not surprising considering that it's now possible to buy one for less than $100.

lifeinhd
Mar 29, 2010, 11:06 AM
I agree that a lot of posters here appear to interested in the iPad. For that matter, so am I. But being interested falls far short of actually buying one when the time comes. I think much of the interest here is being generated by the iPad's Wow! factor.

I'm not so sure. I see a lot of posters saying they have an iPad preordered, or their signature says so, or they've ordered multiple iPads, or they'll get the wifi model on April 3 and the 3G when it comes out, etc. To be honest, I think more people on this forum have already preordered iPads than are considering doing so. Unless the average age of a MacRumors poster is 80, I don't understand why.

gwsat
Mar 29, 2010, 12:02 PM
I'm not so sure. I see a lot of posters saying they have an iPad preordered, or their signature says so, or they've ordered multiple iPads, or they'll get the wifi model on April 3 and the 3G when it comes out, etc. To be honest, I think more people on this forum have already preordered iPads than are considering doing so. Unless the average age of a MacRumors poster is 80, I don't understand why.
I think that being "the first kid on your block" to get any new product is risky. There are inevitable bugs in any new hardware and they are often critical -- think the Rev A MBA. Nevertheless, I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion that a lot of people here may have decided to ignore the risks and pre ordered an iPad. If so, I think it is the "Wow! factor that has enticed them to take, what to me at least, would be an unacceptable risk. Why not just stay on the sidelines for a little while and see what the pioneering early adapters think of the iPad first?

sharkinfested
Mar 29, 2010, 12:19 PM
Iíve read countless articles (and so have all of you probably) that say most people only use their computers to surf the web, check email, play games, watch movies, make the occasional birthday card, etc. So for most people all the horsepower of a laptop, even a MacBook Air, is wasted.
I fall into this category. Iím an artist Ė and not a digital artist Ė most of my work is traditional portraitures. I found a few years ago that I didnít need a desktop so now my main computer is my MacBook.
The iPad wonít completely replace my MacBook but it will become my go to device for travel. When Iím out on a job taking photographs of a client I just need a vehicle to show off the shots so we can decide which one Iíll use in my work. Often these jobs are out of town so Iíll want to check my email, watch a movie, or read a book during down time. The iPad is perfect for me.
And it will be for a lot of people because most of us ARENíT working in computer related jobs. We use computers but weíre mechanics, doctors, insurance salesmen, restaurant workers, retail managers, art dealers, etc.

ddd269
Mar 31, 2010, 04:57 PM
I think that being "the first kid on your block" to get any new product is risky. There are inevitable bugs in any new hardware and they are often critical -- think the Rev A MBA. Nevertheless, I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion that a lot of people here may have decided to ignore the risks and pre ordered an iPad. If so, I think it is the "Wow! factor that has enticed them to take, what to me at least, would be an unacceptable risk. Why not just stay on the sidelines for a little while and see what the pioneering early adapters think of the iPad first?

I buy 1st year production cars frequently. I have bought 2 in the past 5 years. Sure they have little bugs here and there, but like you said, it's the "wow factor". I'm addicted to it. Love to be the one of the first to hold, ride, drive (apply appropriate action for the devise/vehicle:D). I refuse to ride my MBA.

I think there are lots of people like me that don't really care whether something new is a flop or a lemon.

Like I said on the previous post somewhere in this thread, the iPad would be perfect for my office work(meaning bathroom).

drjsway
Apr 2, 2010, 04:10 PM
Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal's review is titled:

Laptop Killer? Pretty Close

Some highlights:

"has the potential to change portable computing profoundly, and to challenge the primacy of the laptop. It could even help, eventually, to propel the finger-driven, multitouch user interface ahead of the mouse-driven interface that has prevailed for decades."

"Iíve been using my test iPad heavily day and night, instead of my trusty laptops most of the time. As I got deeper into it, I found the iPad a pleasure to use, and had less and less interest in cracking open my heavier ThinkPad or MacBook."

"the iPad can indeed replace a laptop for most data communication, content consumption and even limited content creation"

"The iPad is thinner and lighter than any netbook or laptop Iíve seen"

"I was impressed with the iPadís battery life, which I found to be even longer than Appleís ten-hour claim, and far longer than on my laptops"
-----
Better UI, portability, and battery life.

At this point, I doubt any laptop could be better than the iPad. I predict that in 5 years, tablets will outsell laptops/netbooks.

gwsat
Apr 2, 2010, 09:41 PM
Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal's review is titled:

Laptop Killer? Pretty Close

Some highlights:

"has the potential to change portable computing profoundly, and to challenge the primacy of the laptop. It could even help, eventually, to propel the finger-driven, multitouch user interface ahead of the mouse-driven interface that has prevailed for decades."

"Iíve been using my test iPad heavily day and night, instead of my trusty laptops most of the time. As I got deeper into it, I found the iPad a pleasure to use, and had less and less interest in cracking open my heavier ThinkPad or MacBook."

"the iPad can indeed replace a laptop for most data communication, content consumption and even limited content creation"

"The iPad is thinner and lighter than any netbook or laptop Iíve seen"

"I was impressed with the iPadís battery life, which I found to be even longer than Appleís ten-hour claim, and far longer than on my laptops"
-----
Better UI, portability, and battery life.

At this point, I doubt any laptop could be better than the iPad. I predict that in 5 years, tablets will outsell laptops/netbooks.
That's interesting, thanks. I thought the money quote was, "the iPad can indeed replace a laptop for most data communication, content consumption and even limited content creation." [Emphasis added.] I use my computers primarily for written communications and I infer that the iPad, despite its Gee Whiz! attributes, is going to be inferior to any "real" computer for writing. Only time will tell, of course, but even WSJ's reviewer, who otherwise extolled the iPad's virtues, seemed to recognize the iPad's relative weakness at creating content.

definitive
Apr 5, 2010, 09:09 AM
anyone who thinks that ipad is better than a laptop or a netbook is out of their mind. it's nothing more than an oversized ipod touch.

gwsat
Apr 5, 2010, 09:22 AM
anyone who thinks that ipad is better than a laptop or a netbook is out of their mind. it's nothing more than an oversized ipod touch.
I agree that saying the iPad is "better than a laptop" is delusional. While I understand the excitement the iPad has generated, it's simply not designed for all day, every day computing use. It's OK for a lot of tasks, such as Web browsing and checking email but the idea of having to do either word processing or spreadsheet work that is even remotely complex makes my blood run cold.

ddd269
Apr 5, 2010, 02:27 PM
I agree that saying the iPad is "better than a laptop" is delusional. While I understand the excitement the iPad has generated, it's simply not designed for all day, every day computing use. It's OK for a lot of tasks, such as Web browsing and checking email but the idea of having to do either word processing or spreadsheet work that is even remotely complex makes my blood run cold.

I venture to say that 90% of the population use the computer for "just" that puropose... web browsing and checking email like you said. So, if my figure is close, then the ipad will be a laptop replacement for most people, or at least a secondary one that will replace netbooks, MBA, or even an iPhone.

I say iPhone, because I'm thinking about getting an iPad w/3g and replacing my phone for an Android phone (thinking about a Nexus One). iPhone is getting a bit old... Am I the only one?:confused:

Huubster
Apr 5, 2010, 03:09 PM
I venture to say that 90% of the population use the computer for "just" that puropose... web browsing and checking email like you said. So, if my figure is close, then the ipad will be a laptop replacement for most people, or at least a secondary one that will replace netbooks, MBA, or even an iPhone.

You are right about computer usage. But you are not right about "most people will replace" Many will, But certainly not most. Because there is this 5% stuff which an Ipad can't do which will piss of many.

It's like a kitchen without hot water. A car without AC. A band without a drummer. A computer without a keyboard. A laptop without multitasking. Or a browser without flash.

Can't wait to hear the fanboys change opinion 180 degrees as soon as multitasking hits the iToys.

gwsat
Apr 5, 2010, 03:51 PM
I venture to say that 90% of the population use the computer for "just" that puropose... web browsing and checking email like you said. So, if my figure is close, then the ipad will be a laptop replacement for most people, or at least a secondary one that will replace netbooks, MBA, or even an iPhone.

I say iPhone, because I'm thinking about getting an iPad w/3g and replacing my phone for an Android phone (thinking about a Nexus One). iPhone is getting a bit old... Am I the only one?:confused:
I think your prediction that most folks use computers only for tasks of the sort the iPad does well may well be right. In fact, I think the iPad is another example of Apple's marketing genius. They know how to make stuff that a lot of people want to buy.

It's interesting that you are thinking of replacing your iPhone with an Android. I have a G1, which was the first Android phone. I have had it ever since T-Mobile started offering it and have liked it a lot. Whenever I am within reach of T-Mobile's 3G network, the G1 is a highly effective Web browser. It's email functions are pretty good, too. Its UI isn't as classy as the iPhone's but it's not bad, either.

blairh
Apr 7, 2010, 10:55 PM
I have a MBA and I still have a need for an iPad. Even if Apple gave away the MBA for free, I would still also buy an iPad.

The iPad does several things better than any laptop on the market:

1. Browse the web
2. Read books and magazines
3. Watch videos
4. Browse and share photos
5. Games

Note that none of these things require extensive use of a keyboard. Besides doing everything better, it is also more portable/convenient to carry around and use. Multi-touch is also quicker for most tasks than a mouse/trackpad.

The ONLY advantage a laptop has at this point is for typing long documents or code.

I'm blown away by reading things like this. Touching a link is no better than gesturing with my finger on my silky smooth MBP touchpad and laying down a gentle tap. It does the same thing. It's not any better. In the time you raised a finger to touch that link you want to visit, I navigated my finger to point my cursor and tapped. Same. Exact. Thing. I think people are just giddy about a different type of browsing experience and therefore they get too worked up about it. Or maybe Apple's marketing and code words like "revolutionary" are stronger than I think.

If you are serious about reading ebooks you'll still carry a Nook/Kindle. Yes, having one less device to bring out is convenient, but the advantages to the devices I listed are numerous. And if the iPad is a great ereader for you, congrats.

Watch videos? I'll take a larger widescreen over a 4:3 aspect ratio screen any day.

I will admit that browsing photos on the iPad is a pleasure, but certainly not a strong enough advantage where someone would opt for an iPad because the photo element is truly that much better than a laptop.

I don't play games so that's a moot point for me personally.

As for the OP was originally asking. I think the MBA could indeed be better than an iPad. You'd have to lower the price of course to really let them compete. And Apple will never let a device running Snow Leopard come close to a similar price point compared to what the iPad runs as an OS.

Apple did something brilliant. They know a fair share of their consumer base are very casual computer users. And by that I mean they buy a laptop and use it for the most basic things (web, email, media consumption). Now, I could make a case for all those being somewhat crippled on the iPad if I really wanted to (no Flash, no keyboard, locked in to iTunes purchases), but Apple knows that people want to be satisfied on basic levels. The iPad is really not a computer. It's a device meant to consume media. And Apple is especially excited because they will be making so much money via iTunes after the initial purchase of the iPad (movie and tv rentals and purchases, ebooks, newspapers, games, pay apps, etc). And you rest assured that the newspapers and magazine businesses are praying that it will revive their industries (personally I don't think it will, but I don't want to get into that).

I love my MBP. Love it. But if I had the money I'd get a MBA for my travels. I would never get an iPad (too many sacrifices plus shudder at the idea of having to purchase so much media from iTunes). I have my DVD collection ripped and loaded onto my MBP. Would never want to have to convert those files to ones that could play on the iPad too.

Last thought: If the MBA was $800 it would be an enormous success. People would say "oh, it's super portable and very fairly priced." But Apple can't do it. We the consumer are still paying a premium to have such a fully featured computer in such a lightweight piece of hardware. It's a shame, but that's how the game is played for now. What would be interesting is if you offered someone an iPad for $500 (the current base model) and a MBA for $800 (the current base model) and see which one they'd go for. A lot of you may say the iPad because of the current hype plus they might not need all the features of the MBA. But I bet a lot would still opt for the MBA because they know how much more convenient the laptop still is at the end of the day.

drjsway
Apr 8, 2010, 04:44 AM
I'm blown away by reading things like this. Touching a link is no better than gesturing with my finger on my silky smooth MBP touchpad and laying down a gentle tap. It does the same thing. It's not any better. In the time you raised a finger to touch that link you want to visit, I navigated my finger to point my cursor and tapped. Same. Exact. Thing. I think people are just giddy about a different type of browsing experience and therefore they get too worked up about it. Or maybe Apple's marketing and code words like "revolutionary" are stronger than I think.

If you are serious about reading ebooks you'll still carry a Nook/Kindle. Yes, having one less device to bring out is convenient, but the advantages to the devices I listed are numerous. And if the iPad is a great ereader for you, congrats.

Watch videos? I'll take a larger widescreen over a 4:3 aspect ratio screen any day.

I will admit that browsing photos on the iPad is a pleasure, but certainly not a strong enough advantage where someone would opt for an iPad because the photo element is truly that much better than a laptop.

I don't play games so that's a moot point for me personally.

As for the OP was originally asking. I think the MBA could indeed be better than an iPad. You'd have to lower the price of course to really let them compete. And Apple will never let a device running Snow Leopard come close to a similar price point compared to what the iPad runs as an OS.

Apple did something brilliant. They know a fair share of their consumer base are very casual computer users. And by that I mean they buy a laptop and use it for the most basic things (web, email, media consumption). Now, I could make a case for all those being somewhat crippled on the iPad if I really wanted to (no Flash, no keyboard, locked in to iTunes purchases), but Apple knows that people want to be satisfied on basic levels. The iPad is really not a computer. It's a device meant to consume media. And Apple is especially excited because they will be making so much money via iTunes after the initial purchase of the iPad (movie and tv rentals and purchases, ebooks, newspapers, games, pay apps, etc). And you rest assured that the newspapers and magazine businesses are praying that it will revive their industries (personally I don't think it will, but I don't want to get into that).

I love my MBP. Love it. But if I had the money I'd get a MBA for my travels. I would never get an iPad (too many sacrifices plus shudder at the idea of having to purchase so much media from iTunes). I have my DVD collection ripped and loaded onto my MBP. Would never want to have to convert those files to ones that could play on the iPad too.

Last thought: If the MBA was $800 it would be an enormous success. People would say "oh, it's super portable and very fairly priced." But Apple can't do it. We the consumer are still paying a premium to have such a fully featured computer in such a lightweight piece of hardware. It's a shame, but that's how the game is played for now. What would be interesting is if you offered someone an iPad for $500 (the current base model) and a MBA for $800 (the current base model) and see which one they'd go for. A lot of you may say the iPad because of the current hype plus they might not need all the features of the MBA. But I bet a lot would still opt for the MBA because they know how much more convenient the laptop still is at the end of the day.

Sounds like a post by someone who doesn't have an iPad. I haven't touched my MBA since Saturday. I can't sell you on the concept, you just need to use it for an extended period of time. Touch IS much quicker than a mouse and I dare you to browse the web exclusively on the iPad for a week and then see if you can go back to a mouse or trackpad.

I have a MBP and a MBA and the display on the iPad blows them out of the water. I'd much rather watch movies on the iPad. Screen size difference is inconsequential. If I want the big screen experience, I would use my 110" projector.

E-ink is overrated. Why is the nook or kindle better besides the claims of eye strain? It's not as if most people don't spend all day in front of a computer screen anyway.

You are also not locked into iTunes. There is Netflix, ABC just made an app, and Hulu will probably go for a subscription model. Any competitors to iTunes are also welcome to support the iPad. Apple didn't block the Kindle app. Sure, it may be much harder to pirate media but why do people feel they're entitled to steal just because they can get away with it?

BTW, I can access OSX and Windows 7 through a VNC server and it works magnificently.

Love it or hate it, this is the future of computing.

The mouse and keyboard will die off in the consumer space (it'll probably still be around in the pro space). Regarding the on screen keyboard, remember that we've had a lifetime of experience typing on a physical keyboard. I get 60WPM on the iPad keyboard and I have no doubt that number will go up as I get more experience on it.

File systems will be invisible. Operating Systems of the future will resemble iPhone OS more than OSX or Windows. It will become more simplified and some here might call it "crippled" but the fact is, no one wants to learn how to use a computer.

The iPad (and tablet computing in general) is still in its infancy and it will get better but in twenty years, I can say that I bought the first modern computer.

Scottsdale
Apr 8, 2010, 10:24 AM
Love it or hate it, this is the future of computing.


I disagree. The iPad is the future of entertainment and media viewing. It's just that right now people use MBs for those needs whereas now there's an iPad to deal with observation on the device. I believe an MBA buyer (real target market buyer) will be less likely to migrate to the MBA than a MB buyer. In addition, the iPad isn't a computer as it doesn't allow fast input nor a method for work tasks to be completed at a high input rate. Think of writing a paper on the iPad or managing financial spreadsheets for a Fortune 500 company... not the iPads job. The iPad is about play while the MBA is about work. The MBA buyer isn't buying the MBA to watch movies, he or she is buying the MBA to do work and as a secondary function they watch movies and surf the web on it. The MB buyer has a PC at work, and they do all their work there. When they get home the want to "play" not do real computing. They observe on the MB and don't use its computing capabilities... these users will definitely migrate to the iPad. The iPad was built to change entertainment on computers not the need or purpose of work computers themselves. An iPad is better for entertainment and an MBA is better for working.

stewie1
Apr 8, 2010, 02:28 PM
The iPad is at least a year or two away... it has a lot of growing up to do. Apple has dumbed it down to the point where I wouldn't be happy with it. And from what I understand it needs more RAM if it's going to store a bunch of browser tabs without reloading constantly... this is a dealbreaker for me.

I was at the Apple store yesterday admiring the MBA. Just based on the numbers, it's not worth the extra versus a MBP... but boy, there is some intangible wow factor on that machine... I pretty much decided that when these things get refreshed, I'm getting one. But honestly...at these prices and with these specs, who the hell would buy one today????

drjsway
Apr 8, 2010, 02:51 PM
In addition, the iPad isn't a computer as it doesn't allow fast input nor a method for work tasks to be completed at a high input rate. Think of writing a paper on the iPad or managing financial spreadsheets for a Fortune 500 company... not the iPads job.

And you don't agree that our input will get faster as we get more experience on it? We've had a lifetime of experience with traditional computers. It will take time for us to be as productive with a different UI.

I am doing several tasks on the iPad which I know I can do faster on a laptop. I'm resisting going to the laptop because the more experience I get doing these things in the iPad, the faster I will get at them.

And remember, we are talking about the "future of computing" not the present. You don't see a point in the future where a tablet OS can be just as functional?

The iPad is about play while the MBA is about work. The MBA buyer isn't buying the MBA to watch movies, he or she is buying the MBA to do work and as a secondary function they watch movies and surf the web on it.

Which is why I said the mouse and keyboard might still exist in the pro space. In the consumer space, I think it'll die off. I see the mobile computing market share being 95% tablets, 5% laptops. I think desktops will die off completely in the consumer space. There's no more need being confined to a desk. Who still uses a phone with a cord?

Scottsdale
Apr 8, 2010, 02:53 PM
The iPad is at least a year or two away... it has a lot of growing up to do. Apple has dumbed it down to the point where I wouldn't be happy with it. And from what I understand it needs more RAM if it's going to store a bunch of browser tabs without reloading constantly... this is a dealbreaker for me.

I was at the Apple store yesterday admiring the MBA. Just based on the numbers, it's not worth the extra versus a MBP... but boy, there is some intangible wow factor on that machine... I pretty much decided that when these things get refreshed, I'm getting one. But honestly...at these prices and with these specs, who the hell would buy one today????

Just with ten minutes of testing the MBA in the Apple Store, anyone can see how this is where all of the Mac notebooks are headed. It's not just the thiner and lightweight form factor, it's wireless everything, removal of optical drives which are pointless, and USB 3.0 and LightPeak can eliminate the need for a bunch of different ports. In the end, it will not be Mini Display Port, FW, USB x2, Express Card/34, and etc... it will be one LightPeak for any major device, with wireless tech to send the display just as Intel has demonstrated. Wires are the past, and the MBA was the first to prove it. Who wants to plug and unplug products all of the time or work on their Mac with four or five cables attached. With an AirPort Extreme Base Station and attached printer and drive, the wires are pointless at home. Accessing those files over the Internet allows for off-computer storage of media files to allow smaller SSDs that provide optimal speed.

I believe the MBA will continue to show us where Apple is headed with all of the Mac notebooks just as it has in the past. The MBA was the first to put an SSD in it standard, first to eliminate most ports, first to introduce large multi-touch trackpad, first to introduce unibody case, first to introduce minimization of thickness by removing optical drive, and I believe it will be the first to sport a new display tech soon. I believe this next update will probably introduce new internal components advancing on capabilities of technology (Arrandale and Optimus), and the next update will probably introduce where Macs are going in terms of user experiences (new form factor, new materials, new display, and even more portable).

I agree though, there is no reason to buy a 10-month-old price tag on an 18-month-old MBA (v 2,1 was introduced in October 2008 with no changes since except a CPU bump due to Intel's offerings changing w/same CPU cost to Apple as prior high-end SL9x00). However, with its next update whenever that may be, I believe Apple will start taking big steps in the right direction. I sure hope the MBA gets an update with the MBP soon. At least some of the rumors are now speculating that the MBA will get an update too.

Dagless
Apr 8, 2010, 05:01 PM
I think desktops will die off completely in the consumer space. There's no more need being confined to a desk. Who still uses a phone with a cord?

What really, are you joking there?
You know that laptops, and to a lesser degree the iMac range, are all compact and well designed pieces of hardware? A desktop is there for the user upgradable and brute force that you simply can't get in a compact machine.

I think (going off your posts in this thread) that you believe the iPad is right for you, and that everything else in the future is going to be based off something that you like right now. Desktops have been around since computers appeared, they serve a very important use that (even with "desktop replacements" by such high-end manufacturers like Alienware) laptops have never been able to compete against.

gwsat
Apr 8, 2010, 05:23 PM
What really, are you joking there?
You know that laptops, and to a lesser degree the iMac range, are all compact and well designed pieces of hardware? A desktop is there for the user upgradable and brute force that you simply can't get in a compact machine.

I think (going off your posts in this thread) that you believe the iPad is right for you, and that everything else in the future is going to be based off something that you like right now. Desktops have been around since computers appeared, they serve a very important use that (even with "desktop replacements" by such high-end manufacturers like Alienware) laptops have never been able to compete against.
You are right about the continued viability of desktops. Virtually every peripheral in a desktop, including graphics cards, hard drives, and a bunch of other stuff, too, are easily accessible to users for the purposes of repair or upgrading. That's particularly important in a business environment with a bunch of computers. And that's without talking about the capability of many desktops to support multiple quad core CPUs.

That some of us, including your's truly, use our MBPs exclusively these days does not change the equation. As is always the case with computers, what you buy depends on what your needs are.

Dagless
Apr 8, 2010, 05:31 PM
That some of us, including your's truly, use our MBPs exclusively these days does not change the equation. As is always the case with computers, what you buy depends on what your needs are.

Oh my yes. That's why I have a home built desktop PC, an iMac and a Macbook; they all have their specific uses.

Scottsdale
Apr 8, 2010, 05:40 PM
And you don't agree that our input will get faster as we get more experience on it? We've had a lifetime of experience with traditional computers. It will take time for us to be as productive with a different UI.

I am doing several tasks on the iPad which I know I can do faster on a laptop. I'm resisting going to the laptop because the more experience I get doing these things in the iPad, the faster I will get at them.

And remember, we are talking about the "future of computing" not the present. You don't see a point in the future where a tablet OS can be just as functional?



Which is why I said the mouse and keyboard might still exist in the pro space. In the consumer space, I think it'll die off. I see the mobile computing market share being 95% tablets, 5% laptops. I think desktops will die off completely in the consumer space. There's no more need being confined to a desk. Who still uses a phone with a cord?

It doesn't matter whether our input gets faster on an iPad, what matters is we will still be faster at a real keyboard with feedback. In life, especially work, where time is money, the keyboard is king. I can type faster than I can speak... so even voice recognition isn't going to change that.

The UI on the iPad is obvious, so there's no steep learning curve. I would rather teach my mom or grandma to use an iPad than a computer, but I wouldn't hire either of them to work for me.

You might do the work on the iPad to improve upon your speed, but that seems like a "fool's errand" to me... you should use a device because it's either the only tool you have for the job or because it offers you the best results possible. Unless you're developing iPad apps and need this "experience" for something, I think you're wasting your TIME. Life and time are finite... I would rather spend my time with what makes me do work the fastest and what makes me enjoy entertainment the most from my available tool set.

You are free to your own opinions just as I am... one of us is probably more correct, but when I talk about a computer I am talking about real work getting done as its primary purpose. I can type faster on an MBA, so I will not write on an iPad... I might enjoy the iPad more for watching a movie on a flight, so I will use an iPad there. The thing is, I can still watch a movie on my MBA, and I can still type on an iPad, but for me each has a specific set of tasks it achieves better than the other. The MBA is about working and adding my own input into the device... the iPad is about observing and getting the most out of the device possible.

Neither is perfect, but if I could only have one device to do EVERYTHING I needed it to do, I would obviously select an MBA every single time. Because the iPad cannot do everything the MBA can do and the MBA can do the vast majority of what the iPad can do even better, less the better portability and better quality display of the iPad.

gwsat
Apr 8, 2010, 05:52 PM
You are free to your own opinions just as I am... one of us is probably more correct, but when I talk about a computer I am talking about real work getting done as its primary purpose. I can type faster on an MBA, so I will not write on an iPad... I might enjoy the iPad more for watching a movie on a flight, so I will use an iPad there. The thing is, I can still watch a movie on my MBA, and I can still type on an iPad, but for me each has a specific set of tasks it achieves better than the other. The MBA is about working and adding my own input into the device... the iPad is about observing and getting the most out of the device possible.

Neither is perfect, but if I could only have one device to do EVERYTHING I needed it to do, I would obviously select an MBA every single time. Because the iPad cannot do everything the MBA can do and the MBA can do the vast majority of what the iPad can do even better, less the better portability and better quality display of the iPad.
This was my point in my last post, in which I agreed with Dagless that the desktop computer is not going to disappear. We all have differing needs and the computing device we choose depends on what those needs are. In my case, my 17 inch MBP is all I need these days, although there are some tasks at which a desktop might be better and others at which an iPad might be better.

Despite what I have said, I will likely add a Macbook Air if the RAM gets increased because it would provide me portability that would almost, if not quite, do what the iPad does, while at the same time giving me almost as much computing power as I have in my MBP.

blairh
Apr 8, 2010, 06:46 PM
Sounds like a post by someone who doesn't have an iPad. I haven't touched my MBA since Saturday. I can't sell you on the concept, you just need to use it for an extended period of time. Touch IS much quicker than a mouse and I dare you to browse the web exclusively on the iPad for a week and then see if you can go back to a mouse or trackpad.

I have a MBP and a MBA and the display on the iPad blows them out of the water. I'd much rather watch movies on the iPad. Screen size difference is inconsequential. If I want the big screen experience, I would use my 110" projector.

E-ink is overrated. Why is the nook or kindle better besides the claims of eye strain? It's not as if most people don't spend all day in front of a computer screen anyway.

You are also not locked into iTunes. There is Netflix, ABC just made an app, and Hulu will probably go for a subscription model. Any competitors to iTunes are also welcome to support the iPad. Apple didn't block the Kindle app. Sure, it may be much harder to pirate media but why do people feel they're entitled to steal just because they can get away with it?

BTW, I can access OSX and Windows 7 through a VNC server and it works magnificently.

Love it or hate it, this is the future of computing.

The mouse and keyboard will die off in the consumer space (it'll probably still be around in the pro space). Regarding the on screen keyboard, remember that we've had a lifetime of experience typing on a physical keyboard. I get 60WPM on the iPad keyboard and I have no doubt that number will go up as I get more experience on it.

File systems will be invisible. Operating Systems of the future will resemble iPhone OS more than OSX or Windows. It will become more simplified and some here might call it "crippled" but the fact is, no one wants to learn how to use a computer.

The iPad (and tablet computing in general) is still in its infancy and it will get better but in twenty years, I can say that I bought the first modern computer.

Touch is no quicker than the actions I partake in with my trackpad on my MBP. If you don't understand or believe that then you really have drunk the iPad kool aid. Jobs tries to sell us on the idea that the iPad is so "intimate" for web browsing. Stop. All you are doing is navigating the web with a finger vs. a trackpad or mouse. You are doing the same exact thing. If you really want to believe that it's better in any way to a laptop/desktop web experience, go ahead. But you're wrong.

Screen size is inconsequential? Reading that makes allows me to know better than to take a single thing you write seriously. Movies were meant to be watched in a widescreen format. You make sacrifices to watch them in a 4:3 aspect ratio. Again, sacrifices. If it works for you, so be it. But don't tell me it's "inconsequential". And yes, I'll take a 13" widescreen any day of the week vs. what the iPad offers. IPS panel or not.

E-ink is not overrated. Read from an E-ink screen for an hour and then do the very same using your iPad as an ereader with a book. It's a completely different experience. If you don't suffer from any eye strain, cool, but they are two very different experiences.

I'm reading my share of people having issues with the Netflix app. Regardless of course it's a cool app. But you can do the same thing with a laptop. Ditto with all the television apps you named.

This BS you type about tablets being the future of computing makes me want to puke. The mouse and keyboard will die? My God. You get your hands on a tablet that plays media and you think computers as we know it are going to die off. So by your account virtual keyboards are going to be the norm? Right. That's what we all want, less free space for our hands to type with. Yes, we will "adapt". Of course.

The iPad is not the first modern computer. It's a device that gives you the web (without Flash & web pages must fully load again when switching between more than one open tab. Awesome!), an ereader (with glare from indoors lights and an inability to be used outdoors), a gaming device (with no physical controls), a film/tv viewing experience (where you must rely on apps and paid iTunes content), and no keyboard. That's the future? No. No it most certainly is not. I'll take a MBA over an iPad any day.

drjsway
Apr 8, 2010, 08:20 PM
It doesn't matter whether our input gets faster on an iPad, what matters is we will still be faster at a real keyboard with feedback.

Again, I'm talking about the future. Are you really saying there will NEVER be virtual keyboard faster than a physical one?

To the others that also think I'm crazy. Walt Mossberg and other respected tech journalists also think the mouse/keyboard will become obsolete. It's not like I'm not the only one.

Regarding my desktop comment, I specifically mentioned the consumer space. Yes, desktops are more powerful and upgradable. Most consumers do not need the power and selling a used laptop and buying a new one isn't that much more expensive than upgrading.

southnc
Apr 8, 2010, 08:33 PM
Last night, I visited the Apple store in Charlotte (NC) to experience the iPad. I, and most others at the same display table, were NOT impressed. We couldn't use the map feature on any of them, because of some kind of WIFI issue that remained unexplained by the staff.

First, the display had to be constantly cleaned and it shows smudges in the worst way. Outside, the lack of a glare-free screen would be unbearable.

Second, there is no way your going to hold this thing up for hours on end for books or movies. The kindle is feather light (hold for long periods), with a battery that can go for 2 weeks. A typical laptop is easier to watch a movie - in 16:9 format, instead of the iPad's 4:3.

Third, typing on this thing is very awkward. Because of it's curved back, you really can't lay it down and type on it either. You need to prop it up - fine if your on the coach; bad if your on the go.

What I did like about it was the speed of operation and the game play. I think simulation games (flying, driving, etc) is where it will find it's niche. However, other game manufacturers (ie, xBox) could always produce a similar device at half the price with an accelerometer.

On an adjacent table was the current MBA. Going from the iPad to that machine was a major step up. Assuming the new MBA will resolve battery life (8 hours?) with an even better processor (Core i7?), it will be a smash hit.

In fairness to the iPad, no doubt Apple will make improvements to both the hardware and software; I'm sure the next generation could be as impressive as the iPhone 3G was to the original. Time will tell. Right now, time tells me the iPad is far from ready for prime time.

Let's also not forget that the iPad's "official" competition has yet to arrive. The HP Slate looks very impressive and there will be others. The next year should be interesting on how the Tablet wars will play out. I'm still not convinced the whole Tablet concept is really what we need - except for interactive games.

drjsway
Apr 8, 2010, 08:47 PM
Touch is no quicker than the actions I partake in with my trackpad on my MBP. If you don't understand or believe that then you really have drunk the iPad kool aid. Jobs tries to sell us on the idea that the iPad is so "intimate" for web browsing. Stop. All you are doing is navigating the web with a finger vs. a trackpad or mouse. You are doing the same exact thing. If you really want to believe that it's better in any way to a laptop/desktop web experience, go ahead. But you're wrong.

I have used both for an extended period of time. You have not. But you're telling me that I'm wrong?

What about the fact that all tech journalists all describe web browsing as more enjoyable and intimate? So all of them have drunk the Kool-Aid?

I'm a big fan of real books. Never interested in the Kindle. The iPad mimics the experience of reading a physical book better than anything that has come before it. From full color front cover to page turning animations. The kindle feels like I'm reading a text document in comparison. Again, don't most people sit in the office staring at a computer screen? Eye strain is a silly argument.

When it comes to movie watching, there are times where I want the big screen experience and times where I prefer convenient portable viewing. In those time, a 9 inch vs 13 inch doesn't matter as much as portability. When I get home to my 110" screen, I'll enjoy my big screen experience. The fact that the iPad is the ONLY portable 8-bit display Apple makes also help. Even the 17" MBP uses a 6-bit TN display.

drjsway
Apr 8, 2010, 09:07 PM
Last night, I visited the Apple store in Charlotte (NC) to experience the iPad. I, and most others at the same display table, were NOT impressed. We couldn't use the map feature on any of them, because of some kind of WIFI issue that remained unexplained by the staff.

It is flaw of the iPad that the Apple store had WiFi issues?


First, the display had to be constantly cleaned and it shows smudges in the worst way. Outside, the lack of a glare-free screen would be unbearable.

Display can be cleaned in two seconds. I just rub it against my shirt. Glossy vs Matte is a trade off. Glossy looks worst outside but looks better than Matte in darker rooms. The whole Apple line is going towards glossy so this is not iPad-exclusive issue.

Second, there is no way your going to hold this thing up for hours on end for books or movies. The kindle is feather light (hold for long periods), with a battery that can go for 2 weeks. A typical laptop is easier to watch a movie - in 16:9 format, instead of the iPad's 4:3.

I don't hold it up at all. It's always on the coffee table or my lap (except when I play games that require me to hold it up). Do you hold up a hardcover book for hours when you're reading?


Third, typing on this thing is very awkward. Because of it's curved back, you really can't lay it down and type on it either. You need to prop it up - fine if your on the coach; bad if your on the go.

I lay mine on the coffee table and type on it fine. When standing up, I use vertical mode and type with my thumbs like a smart phone. That's the great thing about the iPad. You use it in different ways depending on what position you're in.


On an adjacent table was the current MBA. Going from the iPad to that machine was a major step up. Assuming the new MBA will resolve battery life (8 hours?) with an even better processor (Core i7?), it will be a smash hit.

In fairness to the iPad, no doubt Apple will make improvements to both the hardware and software; I'm sure the next generation could be as impressive as the iPhone 3G was to the original. Time will tell. Right now, time tells me the iPad is far from ready for prime time.

Let's also not forget that the iPad's "official" competition has yet to arrive. The HP Slate looks very impressive and there will be others. The next year should be interesting on how the Tablet wars will play out. I'm still not convinced the whole Tablet concept is really what we need - except for interactive games.

In the end, this is a different kind of UI than you're used to and you need to get used to it. It's unfair to judge it having only played around with it in the Apple store. If you spend your whole life driving a car, then you hop on a motorcycle for half an hour, is it really enough time to judge its benefits? You would probably find it awkward to use but learn how to ride a motorcycle and it can be so much more enjoyable than a car.

I look forward to competitors as well but it will come in the form of Android tablets, not the HP Slate. A desktop OS may sound good on paper but it's like putting a car engine in a motorcycle. A good tablet OS must be designed from the ground up with touch in mind.

Has anyone used Windows 7 or OSX on the iPad (through a VNC)? Though usable, it's far from a great experience.

blairh
Apr 8, 2010, 09:12 PM
I have used both for an extended period of time. You have not. But you're telling me that I'm wrong?

What about the fact that all tech journalists all describe web browsing as more enjoyable and intimate? So all of them have drunk the Kool-Aid?

I'm a big fan of real books. Never interested in the Kindle. The iPad mimics the experience of reading a physical book better than anything that has come before it. From full color front cover to page turning animations. The kindle feels like I'm reading a text document in comparison. Again, don't most people sit in the office staring at a computer screen? Eye strain is a silly argument.

When it comes to movie watching, there are times where I want the big screen experience and times where I prefer convenient portable viewing. In those time, a 9 inch vs 13 inch doesn't matter as much as portability. When I get home to my 110" screen, I'll enjoy my big screen experience. The fact that the iPad is the ONLY portable 8-bit display Apple makes also help. Even the 17" MBP uses a 6-bit TN display.


Walt Mossberg's review of the iPad was one of the most absurd tech reviews I have ever read. It was such a fawning piece and the title alone "laptop killer? almost" is a joke. If you want a more level headed review take a look at Engadget's. The best review of the iPad is Ars Technica's. Miles beyond anything David Pogue, Mossberg, and others wrote in that week leading up to the release.

I love how you are just assuming things. I have used the iPad for an extended period of time. I went and spent an hour this past Sunday at the Apple store doing so. Then my neighbor got one on Monday so I've been making a few visits to really get a feel for it. It's not that I think it's a terrible device. It does what it does well. But you are going so overboard with this talk of it being the future. Perhaps you are drinking Mossberg's kool aid, or worst yet Jesus Diaz's at Gizmodo who has written some articles about the iPad this past week that are simply outrageous. Honestly I think too many of these tech journalists are getting too revved up by their new gadget and are going overboard in their claims. Luckily I have come across some reviews and articles that are more level headed and realistic. And you yourself are going overboard with claims that "all" tech journalists are claiming that the iPad web experience is better and more intimate.

The Kindle feels like you are reading a text document? The Kindle replicates the experience of reading text from a page in a book. That's great that the iPad can do color and make page turn animations, but at the end of the day it still feels like you are reading off a glass illuminated screen, and that to me is an inferior reading experience. And if you think that does not lead to eye strain after long periods, so be it, but a lot of people feel otherwise, including myself.

The 9" vs. 13" viewing experience is a matter of opinion. If you can stomach it, go for it. I can't. To me it's a significant step down as a movie experience.

aleni
Apr 8, 2010, 09:31 PM
Assuming the new MBA will resolve battery life (8 hours?) with an even better processor (Core i7?), it will be a smash hit.


core i7 with 8 hours of battery life in the MBA? yea right.. :rolleyes:

just wait till 2013...

drjsway
Apr 8, 2010, 09:38 PM
Walt Mossberg's review of the iPad was one of the most absurd tech reviews I have ever read. It was such a fawning piece and the title alone "laptop killer? almost" is a joke. If you want a more level headed review take a look at Engadget's. The best review of the iPad is Ars Technica's. Miles beyond anything David Pogue, Mossberg, and others wrote in that week leading up to the release.

I love how you are just assuming things. I have used the iPad for an extended period of time. I went and spent an hour this past Sunday at the Apple store doing so. Then my neighbor got one on Monday so I've been making a few visits to really get a feel for it. It's not that I think it's a terrible device. It does what it does well. But you are going so overboard with this talk of it being the future. Perhaps you are drinking Mossberg's kool aid, or worst yet Jesus Diaz's at Gizmodo who has written some articles about the iPad this past week that are simply outrageous. Honestly I think too many of these tech journalists are getting too revved up by their new gadget and are going overboard in their claims. Luckily I have come across some reviews and articles that are more level headed and realistic. And you yourself are going overboard with claims that "all" tech journalists are claiming that the iPad web experience is better and more intimate.

The Kindle feels like you are reading a text document? The Kindle replicates the experience of reading text from a page in a book. That's great that the iPad can do color and make page turn animations, but at the end of the day it still feels like you are reading off a glass illuminated screen, and that to me is an inferior reading experience. And if you think that does not lead to eye strain after long periods, so be it, but a lot of people feel otherwise, including myself.

The 9" vs. 13" viewing experience is a matter of opinion. If you can stomach it, go for it. I can't. To me it's a significant step down as a movie experience.

I admitted that tablet computing is in its infancy and will take time to mature. The iPad is just getting multi-tasking when the Mac has had it for 25+ years. Is it possible that Mossberg and others see the potential of the form factor and UI? That more "level-headed" reviewers just can't see outside the box? Do you really believe we'll be using a mouse in ten years? Or a keyboard that hasn't really changed since the days of typewriters?

Since the beginning of computing, the ideal form factor has always been a tablet. If you watch Star Trek or other futuristic sci-fi, that's what you'll see. Apple has made the first tablet that's not a pain to use. This is huge. This is why journalists are going crazy over it. Look at how much laptops have changed in the last ten years. Then imagine tablet computing ten years from now.

On the eye-strain issue, I'll ask again. Don't people stare at a monitor for 8 hours a day at the office? What's the difference? Almost all writers write on a laptop (except a few who still use a typewriter). They sometimes write for 16 hours at a time.

blairh
Apr 8, 2010, 09:50 PM
I admitted that tablet computing is in its infancy and will take time to mature. The iPad is just getting multi-tasking when the Mac has had it for 15+ years. Is it possible that Mossberg and others see the potential of the form factor and UI? That more "level-headed" reviewers just can't see outside the box? Do you really believe we'll be using a mouse in ten years? Or a keyboard that hasn't really changed since the days of typewriters?

Since the beginning of computing, the ideal form factor has always been a tablet. If you watch Star Trek or other futuristic sci-fi, that's what you'll see. Apple has made the first tablet that's not a pain to use. This is huge. This is why journalists are going crazy over it. Look at how much laptops have changed in the last ten years. Then imagine tablet computing ten years from now.

On the eye-strain issue, I'll ask again. Don't people stare at a monitor for 8 hours a day at the office? What's the difference? Almost all writers write on a laptop (except a few who still use a typewriter). They sometimes write for 16 hours at a time.

Potential for the form factor? Okay. Saying it will be the potential end of laptops? No. Absolutely not.

The only concession I'm willing to give the iPad is that it gives us the option of something beyond a laptop with regards to consuming media in our travels. If you never truly needed that laptop's keypad during your vacation, well, now you don't have to bring it along. I recognize the freedom of that choice. But at the same time there are so many drawback (IMO) to the current iPad that I can't justify it as any sort of future model for computing. Perhaps if they place something more similar to Snow Leopard and put a widescreen on it (for watching movies PROPERLY and using that extra space for a better onscreen keyboard). I look at the iPad and I simply do not see the future. No matter what any reviewer may proclaim. The iPad is a great way to consume things and give Apple your money for apps and movies/tv shows. That's what I see.

Do I believe we'll be using a mouse in 10 years? Tell you what, I DON'T believe we'll be touching our screens for our desktop computers. That's for sure.

Just because you saw a tablet-like device in Star Trek doesn't mean a thing. Please. And with regards to laptops, yes, they've gotten better in many regards, but their form factor (screen and keyboard) is essentially the same as it was 10 years ago.

drjsway
Apr 8, 2010, 10:11 PM
Potential for the form factor? Okay. Saying it will be the potential end of laptops? No. Absolutely not.

The only concession I'm willing to give the iPad is that it gives us the option of something beyond a laptop with regards to consuming media in our travels. If you never truly needed that laptop's keypad during your vacation, well, now you don't have to bring it along. I recognize the freedom of that choice. But at the same time there are so many drawback (IMO) to the current iPad that I can't justify it as any sort of future model for computing. Perhaps if they place something more similar to Snow Leopard and put a widescreen on it (for watching movies PROPERLY and using that extra space for a better onscreen keyboard). I look at the iPad and I simply do not see the future. No matter what any reviewer may proclaim. The iPad is a great way to consume things and give Apple your money for apps and movies/tv shows. That's what I see.

Do I believe we'll be using a mouse in 10 years? Tell you what, I DON'T believe we'll be touching our screens for our desktop computers. That's for sure.

Just because you saw a tablet-like device in Star Trek doesn't mean a thing. Please. And with regards to laptops, yes, they've gotten better in many regards, but their form factor (screen and keyboard) is essentially the same as it was 10 years ago.

That's what I'm saying. The form factor of the iPad will stay the same, just like the laptop has, but it will be much better. I mentioned Star Trek because even before we had home computers, the tablet form factor has always been the ideal and what we've been working towards.

In ten years, when mobile computing is much more powerful, consumers won't even have desktops. Also, a widescreen will make vertical mode much less usable and anybody with an iPad will tell you how much time they spend in vertical mode.

Scottsdale
Apr 9, 2010, 12:43 AM
Again, I'm talking about the future. Are you really saying there will NEVER be virtual keyboard faster than a physical one?

To the others that also think I'm crazy. Walt Mossberg and other respected tech journalists also think the mouse/keyboard will become obsolete. It's not like I'm not the only one.

Regarding my desktop comment, I specifically mentioned the consumer space. Yes, desktops are more powerful and upgradable. Most consumers do not need the power and selling a used laptop and buying a new one isn't that much more expensive than upgrading.

Not what I am saying at all. I am saying right now, the iPad doesn't have a typing method that will be as fast as typing on a keyboard. In addition, it isn't preferential to put fingers leading to fingerprints all over the display I want to watch a movie on or even just surf the web. I believe a laser non-touch typing system will be the way of the future. It will predict where our fingers are intending to type and will be faster... but there will be a giant learning curve there too. What we're really in need of is an input device that reads our thoughts... that is where typing will become obsolete. Until then, typing on a physical keyboard or a virtual (laser 3D holographic keyboard) will be much faster than typing on a flat panel.

I don't think you're crazy at all. I just think you're moving far faster than the technology is that you're in lust with. I have grand ideas for the iPad, but in the near term (say one to four years) and the mid term (say four to seven years), the iPad will just be catching up to where the laptop is... in the long-run the iPad will work wonders. But let's think beyond that to why we need a display or computer at all. At some point we will all wear contacts that have a display tech embedded within them. We will be inside Target and look down an isle and little flags will pop up telling us which item we might want to buy will be shown on our display. Work will be less physical work, and typing, and the mind will control messages sent. So it's all about what's relevant today. I don't believe the iPad is relevant today in terms of WORKING or INPUT FROM HUMAN TO DEVICE, just as I don't believe my theory of contact lenses with display built in and mind-reading tech that automatically writes emails, documents and etc. Neither one has the capability of TODAY beating the computer. For the iPad, it's probably seven plus years away from even being a possibility that a writer would choose an iPad over an MBA.

Does that mean the iPad cannot do work, hell no. Think about medical charts on an iPad, or viewing how to videos while performing a surgery (okay we don't want to know our doctor is doing that but we'll be asleep), or training pilots how to fly a new airplane, or maybe even the media doing quick transmission of small bits of text. PLUS, think about all of the iPad apps that will be written to do work like be a cash register, or a scanning and package tracking center for UPS drivers, or even the librarians new tool to finding a book.

The iPad is great, but it's not going to take over the computer for INPUT tasks from the user... those wanting to view or observe on the iPad will do just fine.

I also believe the display is far superior on the iPad. I know it's a 4:3 aspect ratio, but it's not distorting an HD video to that aspect ratio. It's a much higher quality display than the MBA, but I believe that will change soon. I know there are a lot of great things about the iPad, but it's not going to change the way I work anytime soon. It will, however, change how I use a tech device to observe things and entertain myself. In the same thought, the iPad doesn't even do the real Internet, without Flash. But for watching a movie on a plane, or reading several books at a time (as a student or researcher perhaps), or for playing games on the go, for sharing photos with friends, or even just checking email on the couch while watching TV, the iPad will be great!

blairh
Apr 9, 2010, 01:26 AM
The only way I would entertain a tablet is if it was widescreen and I could load the movies I've already ripped from my DVD's (without having to do it again for the tablet).

If you ripped off the screen on my MBP and loaded it with Snow Leopard, that would work quite nicely. Even the on-screen keyboard would be much nicer to use seeing that the screen is wider (vs. the iPad) and could give me more room to type on.

Hell I might even be okay with the current iPad OS. Just give me the option to load it up with my movies (still keeping my MBP screen, or an IPS version of it).

drjsway
Apr 9, 2010, 01:48 AM
The only way I would entertain a tablet is if it was widescreen and I could load the movies I've already ripped from my DVD's (without having to do it again for the tablet).

If you ripped off the screen on my MBP and loaded it with Snow Leopard, that would work quite nicely. Even the on-screen keyboard would be much nicer to use seeing that the screen is wider (vs. the iPad) and could give me more room to type on.

Hell I might even be okay with the current iPad OS. Just give me the option to load it up with my movies (still keeping my MBP screen, or an IPS version of it).

4x3 is better for browsing the web, reading books and documents, and virtually every other task. A wider display is only good for movies and would make vertical mode less usable.

I think snow leopard on a touch screen is a horrible idea. Even if Apple put a touch UI over it, all the OSX apps would still be designed for a mouse/keyboard. Icons would be too small. Some things would be designed with keyboard shortcuts in mind, instead of touch gestures. Right clicking will be a chore. I know this because I run OSX in iPad. Some apps run fine. Most require a mouse to work optimally.

Scottsdale
Apr 9, 2010, 10:42 AM
4x3 is better for browsing the web, reading books and documents, and virtually every other task. A wider display is only good for movies and would make vertical mode less usable.

I think snow leopard on a touch screen is a horrible idea. Even if Apple put a touch UI over it, all the OSX apps would still be designed for a mouse/keyboard. Icons would be too small. Some things would be designed with keyboard shortcuts in mind, instead of touch gestures. Right clicking will be a chore. I know this because I run OSX in iPad. Some apps run fine. Most require a mouse to work optimally.

I completely disagree. The most screen real estate is the best screen. A widescreen like that which is on Mac notebooks allows us to have TWO windows side by side at the same time - I will take 16:10 over 4:3 any day of the week on an iPad or a Mac. When I am on my 24" LED ACD, I commonly have three windows open at the same time. 4:3 is NOT better than widescreen and people's acceptance of it proves such. The iPad is for watching movies or doing ONE task at a time, and it is stuck with a 4:3 display probably so Apple could make it fit and look more natural in the hands (like a pad of paper or memo book). The bottom line is a movie on the iPad is really like watching it on an 8" widescreen vs the MBA's 13" widescreen, and more space is wasted on the iPad because it's not a 16:9 format like BluRay or HD movies.

Dagless
Apr 9, 2010, 11:15 AM
In ten years, when mobile computing is much more powerful, consumers won't even have desktops.
No, because desktops will always be more powerful. There's more room for larger chips, more efficient cooling.
The hilarious comparison to Star Trek and their choice of touchscreens completely disregarded the artistic direction required for a show. Even films now have touchscreen devices purely because seeing someone using a keyboard and mouse is very uninteresting. That's the reason why, they're not visionaries. Hell we're not all walking around with bowlcuts or tight spandex. Or are you because Star Trek did it? :D
But in those ~30 years old computers the desktop has always been ahead of laptops and portable systems. Why would this change?

Since moving to Widescreen I couldn't go back to 4:3, the web, iTunes... everything is just better in widescreen.

Also it's a poor show that Apple put in such a good display in the iPad and poor ones in the MBP line.

blairh
Apr 9, 2010, 11:18 AM
I completely agree with Scottsdale. To claim browsing on the web with a 4:3 screen is better is absurd. Widescreen panel gives you more room for tabs, etc. My favorite web experience is my good old 20" ACD.

ddd269
Apr 9, 2010, 02:00 PM
Ah... Preference is what comes to mind when I read all these posts. And yes, I read them all... Including yours Scottsdale. ;)

This is why all the manufacturers got a piece of the action... Whether it's a computer, car, food, you name it. There's a market for pretty much everything because of people's preference. Sure, some got a bigger piece of the pie, but you get the idea.

iPad, MBA, Slate... the choice is yours.

If all the girls wanted a short guy, what would us tall guys to do? ...And vice versa :D

NewSc2
Apr 9, 2010, 02:01 PM
Been debating getting a MBA as a MBP replacement, but I want to step in on some comments about the iPad:

The notion that the iPad going to "replace" a notebook is kind of silly at this point. The iPad is really REALLY good at one thing -- replacing books, and bringing a more interactive experience away from a desk and chair and onto the couch. After having thoroughly used one for the past several days, it's the best conclusion to make. I'd never type a report on an iPad, and precision things (Photoshop, MIDI editing) is simply easier with a mouse at this point in time. Our fingers are too stubby. Plus there is no great position to sit with the iPad and really brainstorm thoughts, open up thesaurus, refer to an online manual, unless you're sitting at a desk, with iPad docked, and at that point you might as well get your laptop out.

The iPad transforms the internet into a book/magazine, and you can read it on your couch. It's something you can snuggle up with a loved one and watch a movie or TV show with. Ever tried using a notebook while reclining on a couch? You get hot laps, the trackpad is a little too low, the darn thing keeps slipping down your legs. Always worried about performance hit, or the need to charge? That's where the iPad excels at. It's something I can toss around, read a couple books on, play podcasts through the speaker while I'm reading over reports, and charge back up at night.

drjsway
Apr 9, 2010, 04:54 PM
I completely disagree. The most screen real estate is the best screen. A widescreen like that which is on Mac notebooks allows us to have TWO windows side by side at the same time - I will take 16:10 over 4:3 any day of the week on an iPad or a Mac. When I am on my 24" LED ACD, I commonly have three windows open at the same time. 4:3 is NOT better than widescreen and people's acceptance of it proves such. The iPad is for watching movies or doing ONE task at a time, and it is stuck with a 4:3 display probably so Apple could make it fit and look more natural in the hands (like a pad of paper or memo book). The bottom line is a movie on the iPad is really like watching it on an 8" widescreen vs the MBA's 13" widescreen, and more space is wasted on the iPad because it's not a 16:9 format like BluRay or HD movies.

I agree that most screen real estate is the best screen. However, for most tasks except video, what's important is VERTICAL real estate. On most websites, I'm not scrolling to the right, I'm scrolling down. On a 9.7 tablet, there is just enough room for one window. Having two windows side by side is torture.

Also, most websites are designed for 1024 width. On my MBA, my web browsing would be 1024x800, not much of a difference from 1024x768, especially considering that on OSX, the windows don't go all the way down to the edge of the screen. Since switching between apps is so fast, is there a reason I need two windows on the screen at the exact same time?

EDIT: A 16x9 video is exactly 13" on MBA and exactly 9" on an iPad (did the math and then actually got out my two machines and measured). Add to the fact that you can typically and more comfortably hold the iPad closer to your face than a MBA and the difference goes down.

iSee
Apr 9, 2010, 05:21 PM
^^^^

I finally watched a video on my iPad last night and it was an exceptional experience -- much better than I expected.

I expected the screen is bright and crisp so I think what made it a great experience was:

1. Like you mentioned, you can hold the iPad quite close to your face.
2. Because of the smooth glass surface across the entire device, the black bars from the letter boxing blend with the bezel, giving you the illusion that there isn't letter boxing at all. In fact, the smooth, plain black border around the video really lets the video pop.

Put those together and watch in a dark room like I was (in bed with headphones next to sleeping wife), and it was a surprisingly immersive experience. It was actually pretty close to watching a movie on the big home theater setup (though limited to one person, of course).

I was watching in a dark room and I was getting that immersive

And the letter boxing is not annoying
I guess it's because the scd

Digital Skunk
Apr 9, 2010, 05:26 PM
the instant on, long battery life and app store for games which i favor the ipad more than the macbook air.

im gonna sell my rev B macbook air and buy 2 ipads for my me and my wife. currently, all i do is browsing with my air. i might as well exchange it for the iPad which i can browse website while laying on my bed..

This example is the ideal iPad user. A person that consumes media with their devices, and doesn't do much creation. Not trying to sound negative, just stating the facts.

The iPad is definitely built for someone that wants to just sit around and take in movies and websites and such. Making it a content creator is a little more involved, and requires a few more tools.

1. Browse the web
2. Read books and magazines
3. Watch videos
4. Browse and share photos
5. Games

Stop NOT making sense.

1. No flash support, it's a 9" screen with a lower resolution.
2. See number 1
3. See number 1 (Hulu) also, bigger screen 17" FULL HD laptops people!
4. See number 1, bigger screen
5. HA! Can't play WoW on the iPad can we, or how about Civilization?

I am not bashing the iPad, but we need to keep things in perspective.

drjsway
Apr 9, 2010, 06:58 PM
Stop NOT making sense.

1. No flash support, it's a 9" screen with a lower resolution.
2. See number 1
3. See number 1 (Hulu) also, bigger screen 17" FULL HD laptops people!
4. See number 1, bigger screen
5. HA! Can't play WoW on the iPad can we, or how about Civilization?

I am not bashing the iPad, but we need to keep things in perspective.

So your only argument is bigger screen. Lol. Can your laptop switch to vertical mode to browse websites with long columns of text? Can you zoom in quickly to get rid of ads on the right side?

Read the post before yours regarding movie watching.

Haven't touched my MBA since Saturday.

EDIT: look at sites like Engadget. Articles on the left, crap on the right. Perfect for vertical mode and zooming in to cut out the crap on the right. I get 1024 vertical lines to browse with, almost as much as a 17" MBP and only 1.5 pounds to carry.

ddd269
Apr 9, 2010, 07:18 PM
This example is the ideal iPad user. A person that consumes media with their devices, and doesn't do much creation. Not trying to sound negative, just stating the facts.

The iPad is definitely built for someone that wants to just sit around and take in movies and websites and such. Making it a content creator is a little more involved, and requires a few more tools.



Stop NOT making sense.

1. No flash support, it's a 9" screen with a lower resolution.
2. See number 1
3. See number 1 (Hulu) also, bigger screen 17" FULL HD laptops people!
4. See number 1, bigger screen
5. HA! Can't play WoW on the iPad can we, or how about Civilization?

I am not bashing the iPad, but we need to keep things in perspective.


I think you're missing the point... most people don't "create" content on any level. Except for home videos and photos, watching content created by others is what the iPad is all about. This is perfect for most people. No need to fumble or setup (as easy as OS X is, for some people it's a hassle... like my mom(65) and my wife). They just want stuff to be simple.

Consider the Macbook (any model) a Swiss Army knife and the iPad a specific tool for media. Most people just don't need to carry around all that extra weight/capacity.

albusseverus
Apr 9, 2010, 08:56 PM
MBA is a light weight package for fairly heavy computing on the goócontent creation - editing videos, Garage Band, more than basic word processing, spreadsheet, slides etc. More grunt than a WhiteBook, much lighter than a MacBook Pro, but not a pro machine. You could make a podcast on a MBA, for example, but not edit a feature film in Final Cut Studio.

iPad is for mobile computing - email, but not all your email; web surfing, but not heavy downloads; media consumption; emergency Pages/Numbers/Keynote, but not all the features that a MBA supports, for example.

iPad is the iPod of computers, you can take some of your 'stuff' with you, but not the whole lot. I think there's plenty of functionality (especially for books etc.) to make it 'another thing you carry', but it's not a computer as such. That's why the reviewers are reluctant to compare it to computers, it isn't really and it's not supposed be a computer as we know it, it's something else.

MBA is a great computer if you want portability and a fair bit of power. The price is too steep to be taken seriously (it has an iPod hard drive for Jobs-sake!), but it speeds through tasks that stop a WhiteBook in its tracks and that makes it semi-pro in my books.

blairh
Apr 10, 2010, 01:18 AM
These attempts at making video watching such a pleasant experience on your iPad is hilarious. Look, if it works for you, so be it. I'm happy it does. But you are making concessions to watch a film or tv show on your iPad. You see how that frame gets wider and encaptures the entire scene when holding your iPad vertically? Well as I'm sure you know that's how your film/tv show is meant to be viewed. So when you go back to holding your iPad horizontally, you are losing a lot of the picture. And what exactly is the point of being able to hold the screen closer to your face? Are you serious? If anything my MBP does me a favor by having the keyboard naturally provide a proper viewing distance for me to watch content. I would never want to push the screen closer to my face for viewing.

drjsway
Apr 10, 2010, 03:22 AM
These attempts at making video watching such a pleasant experience on your iPad is hilarious. Look, if it works for you, so be it. I'm happy it does. But you are making concessions to watch a film or tv show on your iPad. You see how that frame gets wider and encaptures the entire scene when holding your iPad vertically? Well as I'm sure you know that's how your film/tv show is meant to be viewed. So when you go back to holding your iPad horizontally, you are losing a lot of the picture. And what exactly is the point of being able to hold the screen closer to your face? Are you serious? If anything my MBP does me a favor by having the keyboard naturally provide a proper viewing distance for me to watch content. I would never want to push the screen closer to my face for viewing.

The fact is, the iPad has a much better screen. Period. I don't see how anyone can enjoy watching a movie on a 6-bit TN display.

blairh
Apr 10, 2010, 11:45 AM
The fact is, the iPad has a much better screen. Period. I don't see how anyone can enjoy watching a movie on a 6-bit TN display.

So by that logic it's hard for you to believe that anyone has enjoyed watching a film on their laptop all these years given almost all of them have TN panels? Please.

I'll take a 13" widescreen TN panel any day over your 4:3 IPS panel for a film. Not even a question. And this is coming from someone who uses an IPS monitor every day.

Dagless
Apr 10, 2010, 11:57 AM
The fact is, the iPad has a much better screen. Period. I don't see how anyone can enjoy watching a movie on a 6-bit TN display.

Just as others here couldn't imagine watching modern, 16:9 content on a 4:3 display. I'd equate a 6-bit display to a 4:3 display. I'd also image that a lot of people here aren't running modern MBP's and have better displays.

calderone
Apr 10, 2010, 12:18 PM
It is not that bad. I prefer the iPad to my MBA when watching 16:9 content.

Digital Skunk
Apr 10, 2010, 02:00 PM
It is not that bad. I prefer the iPad to my MBA when watching 16:9 content.

I prefer my 46" HDTV.

9" viewing is so 80's

calderone
Apr 10, 2010, 02:14 PM
I prefer my 46" HDTV.

9" viewing is so 80's

And you assume that I don't prefer my 46" over the iPad?

Scottsdale
Apr 10, 2010, 02:39 PM
Been debating getting a MBA as a MBP replacement, but I want to step in on some comments about the iPad:

The notion that the iPad going to "replace" a notebook is kind of silly at this point. The iPad is really REALLY good at one thing -- replacing books, and bringing a more interactive experience away from a desk and chair and onto the couch. After having thoroughly used one for the past several days, it's the best conclusion to make. I'd never type a report on an iPad, and precision things (Photoshop, MIDI editing) is simply easier with a mouse at this point in time. Our fingers are too stubby. Plus there is no great position to sit with the iPad and really brainstorm thoughts, open up thesaurus, refer to an online manual, unless you're sitting at a desk, with iPad docked, and at that point you might as well get your laptop out.

The iPad transforms the internet into a book/magazine, and you can read it on your couch. It's something you can snuggle up with a loved one and watch a movie or TV show with. Ever tried using a notebook while reclining on a couch? You get hot laps, the trackpad is a little too low, the darn thing keeps slipping down your legs. Always worried about performance hit, or the need to charge? That's where the iPad excels at. It's something I can toss around, read a couple books on, play podcasts through the speaker while I'm reading over reports, and charge back up at night.

Funny thing about the iPad being such a great Internet tool. Today, I used an iPad for the first time. The first thing I did was open Safari to go to Masters.org to get a scoring update. The very first page I opened, when I clicked on the leaderboard, was FLASH, hence not going to happen on the iPad. And that just about sums up the iPad's Internet, UNDEPENDABLE!

I actually disagree with the iPad even being really good at books. The iPad still has a bright white background on books which is much harder on the eyes than e-Ink. I prefer the Nook to the iPad for reading.

Takes me to movies. The display is nice but has a lot of glare in light, and it's only about an 8" widescreen. I would rather watch a movie on the iPad than my iPhone, but I would rather watch a movie on my MBA than iPad.

Think about games, the iPad is better than the iPhone, sorta. However, I would much prefer a Wii, Playstation, or Xbox. It's definitely better than a game on a computer though.

The iPad does a lot of things okay, but it doesn't do anything great EXCEPT last longer in terms of battery capabilities when away from a power outlet, and it combine tools into one device that's extremely portable yet still not portable enough to fit in a pocket. The thing about the iPad is it's small, lightweight and portable - that is its advantage.

Scottsdale
Apr 10, 2010, 02:47 PM
I agree that most screen real estate is the best screen. However, for most tasks except video, what's important is VERTICAL real estate. On most websites, I'm not scrolling to the right, I'm scrolling down. On a 9.7 tablet, there is just enough room for one window. Having two windows side by side is torture.

Also, most websites are designed for 1024 width. On my MBA, my web browsing would be 1024x800, not much of a difference from 1024x768, especially considering that on OSX, the windows don't go all the way down to the edge of the screen. Since switching between apps is so fast, is there a reason I need two windows on the screen at the exact same time?

EDIT: A 16x9 video is exactly 13" on MBA and exactly 9" on an iPad (did the math and then actually got out my two machines and measured). Add to the fact that you can typically and more comfortably hold the iPad closer to your face than a MBA and the difference goes down.

I used an iPad today, and I didn't get near the experience you're touting. I couldn't even view the TEXT CONTENT on the very first website I visited, because the iPad is incapable of displaying the real Internet.

You were talking 4:3 being a better display for Internet. My point was based on the aspect ration not the size of the displays. I would prefer putting multiple pages across, and most pages nowadays automatically adjust for the width the browser is currently sized at. It's great for reading content or even researching on the left side of the page and typing on the right side of the page in a Word document... try doing that on an iPad.


^^^^

I finally watched a video on my iPad last night and it was an exceptional experience -- much better than I expected.

I expected the screen is bright and crisp so I think what made it a great experience was:

1. Like you mentioned, you can hold the iPad quite close to your face.
2. Because of the smooth glass surface across the entire device, the black bars from the letter boxing blend with the bezel, giving you the illusion that there isn't letter boxing at all. In fact, the smooth, plain black border around the video really lets the video pop.

Put those together and watch in a dark room like I was (in bed with headphones next to sleeping wife), and it was a surprisingly immersive experience. It was actually pretty close to watching a movie on the big home theater setup (though limited to one person, of course).

I was watching in a dark room and I was getting that immersive

And the letter boxing is not annoying
I guess it's because the scd

Funny, I still prefer the 50" flat panel hanging on the wall to watch movies with incredible surround sound to using a hand to hole the iPad next to my face to make it appear to look like a 50" flat panel hanging on the wall.

Scottsdale
Apr 10, 2010, 02:51 PM
This example is the ideal iPad user. A person that consumes media with their devices, and doesn't do much creation. Not trying to sound negative, just stating the facts.

The iPad is definitely built for someone that wants to just sit around and take in movies and websites and such. Making it a content creator is a little more involved, and requires a few more tools.



Stop NOT making sense.

1. No flash support, it's a 9" screen with a lower resolution.
2. See number 1
3. See number 1 (Hulu) also, bigger screen 17" FULL HD laptops people!
4. See number 1, bigger screen
5. HA! Can't play WoW on the iPad can we, or how about Civilization?

I am not bashing the iPad, but we need to keep things in perspective.

That is a better way to state "creation" vs. the "input from the user" I have been using to explain a computer's capabilities vs the iPad's capabilities.

I have been stating observation for what the user does with the iPad. I like your terms better.

You're right... the iPad is great for observation or consumption of data, videos, or whatever, but it's extremely inferior at "creation" of anything which is the point of working on a computer. We don't work to observe or consume, we work to create.

Nice post... exactly what my thoughts were and very first experience on the iPad was like.

calderone
Apr 10, 2010, 02:51 PM
I used an iPad today, and I didn't get near the experience you're touting. I couldn't even view the TEXT CONTENT on the very first website I visited, because the iPad is incapable of displaying the real Internet.


So what you are saying is that some web developer decided to use Flash to display TEXT Content? Am I getting that right? They used Flash to display Text and you blame the iPad? Hilarious.

ravenvii
Apr 10, 2010, 03:21 PM
^^^

*facepalm*

That's all I have to say.

Scottsdale
Apr 10, 2010, 03:33 PM
The fact is, the iPad has a much better screen. Period. I don't see how anyone can enjoy watching a movie on a 6-bit TN display.

It's higher quality in terms of color accuracy, but it's also much smaller. What do people buy for their wall, an extremely high quality 30" ACD with an IPS panel, or a 50"+ LCD? Size is more important to most people than extremely fine details which most people cannot see a difference in.

In addition, movies are NOT typically better on an IPS display. The color will be more accurate when still, but the response times would be inferior as well as frame rates on the IPS displays. IPS displays are not superior for motion of images on the displays, they're superior for still photos, crisp and sharp edges, and excellent color reproduction. They're used on high quality displays for WORK in 3D modeling, color accuracy, and extreme clarity, NOT for watching movies.

The most likely reason Apple used an IPS display on the iPad was for the viewing angle problem of TN displays. Think of sharing an iPad video if it were a TN display, it wouldn't do as good of a job. However, a computer by its nature is a one person machine, which is why a TN display does the job just fine. Apple knows what it's doing. In addition, the TN displays Apple uses are some of the highest color gamut displays that excel far beyond the normal or average of TN displays. Apple also uses LED backlighting for an incredible experience far different than a normal TN display you might see in a netbook or PC counterpart. The reason Apple uses these on the Mac notebooks is to take advantages of ALL of the uses a Mac user would need the display for. Realistically, a pro would probably prefer an IPS display and not for watching movies, but then most pros couldn't work on any Mac notebook. Most real "pros" who need a professional grade workstation use PCs with IPS displays or Mac Pros with a 30" ACD IPS display. Or these pros connect their MBP to a 30" ACD or NES (IPS) display for "professional" work.

I would much prefer an IPS display on my MBA, but I want it to be 13.3" and NOT 9." In addition, I want the IPS display for the entire workload I use the computer for, NOT specifically for the videos I watch.

If Apple's sole intent for the iPad was video playback for oneself, it would have been better off using a different display. The IPS display is excellent for stuff like reading and clarity of still images/photos on the iPad. The IPS display is excellent for viewing angles as the iPad is meant for sharing with the family. Apple envisions an iPad in every home on the coffee table shared by all. A computer is normally a one person interaction between him/herself and the computer.

Understand why you have an IPS display... it's not for the video playback for one person to watch a movie. It's for viewing angle capabilities to be shared, crisp viewing of family photos, excellent reading, perfect color reproduction, so your point of it being there for video playback for yourself is probably an incorrect point to make for the iPad. Say you are sharing a video on a plane with your spouse, better with the iPad if you can get away with sharing a 9.6" display. The display is also a higher quality display because it's meant to be held extremely close to the eyes which is different than TVs, computers, or Mac notebooks.

Apple uses the right displays for the job/device given the complete purpose of the device by most users. I would prefer an IPS display in my MBA next time but the average user wouldn't notice the difference or care too much because they're not using their MBA for things that an IPS display is superior at. You have to admit that Mac notebook displays are pretty incredible for their uses... I admit that the IPS display on the iPad is incredible, but I have to be sharing it with someone else for video playback or reviewing photos or reading with the iPad close to my eyes to notice the difference vs a TN, high color gamut, LED-backlit display like Apple uses in the Mac notebooks.

drjsway
Apr 10, 2010, 03:41 PM
Scottsdale, the iPad is 9" for 16x9 content, not 8". Regardless, laptops are 16x10 so you get letterboxing either way. More for 2.35:1 movies.

I've always appreciated quality over size. It's funny how people would rather buy a cheap 50" VIZIO than a quality 34" set at the same price. On that same note, resolution is also not as important as picture quality. A quality 720p set is better than a cheap 1080p set.

I have a Sony 34XBR960 in my bedroom. It's a 34" CRT that weighs 200 lbs. Never upgraded to a bigger flat panel because no flat panel exists today that beats the Sony in picture quality (Pioneer Kuro came close). My point is, size and resolution isn't as important as picture quality. From the distance I watch it in (about 7-8 feet), the 34" is about as big as an iPad.

I read about 4 hours last night in bed. This was in the dark room next to my sleeping wife. Never could've done that on a Kindle/Nook. This was my biggest drawback to physical books as well. I always needed an external light source and sometimes had to angle myself in positions to stay in the light.

Don't even get me started on flash. I've been boycotting flash for half a year now, way before the iPad. I even removed the flash plug-in from my computer. The only way it will go away is if you just stop using it.

gwsat
Apr 10, 2010, 03:49 PM
Funny, I still prefer the 50" flat panel hanging on the wall to watch movies with incredible surround sound to using a hand to hole the iPad next to my face to make it appear to look like a 50" flat panel hanging on the wall.
Agreed. There is simply no viewing experience available on a computer that even comes close to watching a Blu-ray movie with 5.1 HD audio on a 60 inch plasma display and hearing it through a first class 7.1 audio setup. That's why my lip tends to curl when I read all the whining about Apple's failure to make BD burner/players available in its laptops. For me at least, it's a non-issue.

Your comment about the iPad's critical limitation, the absence of Flash support for Web usage, made sense. With an iPad, this limitation keeps you from ever knowing in advance whether you are going to be able to see any given Web page. That's bad and would be a deal breaker for me, if the iPad's virtual keyboard weren't already a deal breaker.

drjsway
Apr 10, 2010, 04:05 PM
In addition, movies are NOT typically better on an IPS display. The color will be more accurate when still, but the response times would be inferior as well as frame rates on the IPS displays. IPS displays are not superior for motion of images on the displays, they're superior for still photos, crisp and sharp edges, and excellent color reproduction. They're used on high quality displays for WORK in 3D modeling, color accuracy, and extreme clarity, NOT for watching movies.

NOTE: That was weird. Edited my post and it reverted to an earlier post.

I disagree. Note that all TVs, even the cheapest, are 8-bit. 6-bit displays can only produce 262k colors whereas 8-bit produces 16.7M, 67 times more! It is noticeable in all movies in the form of color banding, especially in backgrounds with different shades of the same color (dark night scene, the blue in the sky, etc.) There is also more grain. Dithering helps but is not perfect yet.

Also, response times only matter when playing games with very high frame rate. Not at all for videos.

The MBA/MBP screens are still much much better than netbooks screens. I wouldn't want to browse the web on those things, much less watch a movie. Netbooks are still selling well though, which I guess means that most people don't really care anyway.

calderone
Apr 10, 2010, 04:25 PM
^^^

*facepalm*

That's all I have to say.

Facepalming doesn't render my post incorrect.

And here is what is really strange about the masters.org website. You can see many scores until you go to look at the Full Leader Board. The mini Leader Board on the left is visible on the iPad, the Cumulative Statistics. Tap that Full Leader Board link and bam, Flash. And the display in Flash is virtually the same as the non-Flash lists.

Why do Web Developers do this? I really don't get it.

ravenvii
Apr 10, 2010, 04:55 PM
Facepalming doesn't render my post incorrect.

And here is what is really strange about the masters.org website. You can see many scores until you go to look at the Full Leader Board. The mini Leader Board on the left is visible on the iPad, the Cumulative Statistics. Tap that Full Leader Board link and bam, Flash. And the display in Flash is virtually the same as the non-Flash lists.

Why do Web Developers do this? I really don't get it.

I facepalmed because I agree with you 100%, I'm facepalm-ing at the poster you quoted.

calderone
Apr 10, 2010, 05:01 PM
I facepalmed because I agree with you 100%, I'm facepalm-ing at the poster you quoted.

Oh, well now I look like a jackass. Sorry about that. The up arrows made it seem as if it was directed to me. I apologize.

maz94protege
Apr 10, 2010, 06:50 PM
honestly no comparison. the iPad cant play all the same software (now) that the Macbook Air can. Both are supurb devices, cant win or loose with either. Its all in what you want to do with them. Surf the web, photos, videos.....definatley do the iPad. But more software, gaming and advanced video/photo editing....the MacbookAir.

Scottsdale
Apr 10, 2010, 08:51 PM
NOTE: That was weird. Edited my post and it reverted to an earlier post.

I disagree. Note that all TVs, even the cheapest, are 8-bit. 6-bit displays can only produce 262k colors whereas 8-bit produces 16.7M, 67 times more! It is noticeable in all movies in the form of color banding, especially in backgrounds with different shades of the same color (dark night scene, the blue in the sky, etc.) There is also more grain. Dithering helps but is not perfect yet.

Also, response times only matter when playing games with very high frame rate. Not at all for videos.

The MBA/MBP screens are still much much better than netbooks screens. I wouldn't want to browse the web on those things, much less watch a movie. Netbooks are still selling well though, which I guess means that most people don't really care anyway.

It is not about how many colors it can create. I said that IPS is better at color accuracy! I disagree with your statement about games being the only problem for IPS. My point was not that Apple displays are just better than netbook and alternative PC displays, it was that in terms of TN displays, Apple has the extremely best of the best!

calderone
Apr 10, 2010, 10:47 PM
It is not about how many colors it can create. I said that IPS is better at color accuracy! I disagree with your statement about games being the only problem for IPS. My point was not that Apple displays are just better than netbook and alternative PC displays, it was that in terms of TN displays, Apple has the extremely best of the best!

What flavor is the Kool-Aid? It must taste really good.

But you know what, I bet Apple does have the best low res display on the market.

ouimetnick
Apr 10, 2010, 10:51 PM
What flavor is the Kool-Aid? It must taste really good.

But you know what, I bet Apple does have the best low res display on the market.

Scottsdale is talking about the color, not the pixels. But Steve should say, "If a customer can see the pixels on the screen, the company blew it". The iPas has a low res display, but the pixels display a very high quality color.

calderone
Apr 10, 2010, 11:27 PM
Scottsdale is talking about the color, not the pixels. But Steve should say, "If a customer can see the pixels on the screen, the company blew it". The iPas has a low res display, but the pixels display a very high quality color.

Even then? Where is the evidence of Apple's TNs being "better than the rest on the market?

While the iPad res may be "low" it is not low for its size. The iPad has nearly 20 more pixels per inch when compared to a MBA.

And I can't see pixel on my 30" which has lower pixel density than the iPad, and I can't see them on the iPad either. So your statement is, false.

And to be clear, I mean pixels in the sense of being able to discern actual the pixels themselves.

lifeinhd
Apr 10, 2010, 11:57 PM
Can [your laptop] zoom in quickly to get rid of ads on the right side?

Yes, ctrl+scroll. Not that I really care, since screen real-estate isn't at a premium on my 15" MBP unlike on a 10" iPad.

Haven't touched my MBA since Saturday.

I'll assume this is because the excitement over getting a new toy hasn't yet worn off.

EDIT: look at sites like Engadget. Articles on the left, crap on the right. Perfect for vertical mode and zooming in to cut out the crap on the right. I get 1024 vertical lines to browse with, almost as much as a 17" MBP and only 1.5 pounds to carry.

Yes, but if you're going to hold it sideways, you only get 768 lines horizontal. Too bad most sites are either 800 or 1024 across....

drjsway
Apr 11, 2010, 12:38 AM
Yes, ctrl+scroll. Not that I really care, since screen real-estate isn't at a premium on my 15" MBP unlike on a 10" iPad.

I'll assume this is because the excitement over getting a new toy hasn't yet worn off.

Yes, but if you're going to hold it sideways, you only get 768 lines horizontal. Too bad most sites are either 800 or 1024 across....

Yes, it's 768 horizontal, but remember, I zoomed in to cut out ads and other crap on the sides. Zooming in in a laptop is hardly the same thing. The iPad zooms the way an iPhone does, to exactly the width of the article you're reading. That's the biggest weakness of the laptop. Not being able to use it in portrait mode.

lifeinhd
Apr 11, 2010, 02:23 PM
Yes, it's 768 horizontal, but remember, I zoomed in to cut out ads and other crap on the sides. Zooming in in a laptop is hardly the same thing. The iPad zooms the way an iPhone does, to exactly the width of the article you're reading. That's the biggest weakness of the laptop. Not being able to use it in portrait mode.

I don't really see that as a weakness, simply because I never have to zoom in due to the extra space. Even on my netbook, I never zoom in (and I have OS X installed on the netbook, so it's also as easy as ctrl+scroll to zoom).

I don't know about OS X, but I know in Windows you can easily rotate your screen with a key combination. Then turn your laptop on its side, and voila, portrait mode. Not that you'd ever need/want to....

drjsway
Apr 11, 2010, 05:19 PM
I don't really see that as a weakness, simply because I never have to zoom in due to the extra space. Even on my netbook, I never zoom in (and I have OS X installed on the netbook, so it's also as easy as ctrl+scroll to zoom).

I don't know about OS X, but I know in Windows you can easily rotate your screen with a key combination. Then turn your laptop on its side, and voila, portrait mode. Not that you'd ever need/want to....

You don't have to zoom in but I get extra space. A website with a long column of text (basically any blog, article, or review site) I can fit more text on the screen without scrolling than you. I get almost as much text as a 17" MacBook Pro and I have a 9.7" device. That is a BIG advantage of using portrait mode.

A laptop on it's side is impossible to use.

EDIT: Two screenshots

MacBook Air:
http://files.me.com/davidren/xwvsjn

iPad:
http://files.me.com/davidren/zaxyu5

As you can see, I get much more information on the iPad and what do I lose? Two flash ads and wasted space on the right.

gwsat
Apr 11, 2010, 06:00 PM
Thanks to a poster's comments in another thread, I am rethinking my largely negative initial reaction to the iPad. I love the MBA and if Apple ups its RAM in its next update, it would be tempting for me. But today, I finally analyzed what my needs really are if my 17 inch MBP remains my primary computer, which it almost certainly will. Because I have a reliable every day computer that I am very happy with, it finally occurred to me that all I really need as an adjunct is a handy snatch and grab device that will be light weight, very portable, and provide quick, easy access to the Web. I am coming around to the idea that the iPad might be a better solution for me than the MBA. The dramatically higher cost of the MBA is also a factor.

manhattanboy
Apr 11, 2010, 06:00 PM
If you increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad?

The Air's full keyboard, bigger screen, it's light and easy to carry does more with less effort and more convenience, right? I think so.

The iPad seems to be created for a market that doesn't yet exist and maybe doesn't need to exist? Now software developers and publishers are working to make their content iPad compatible which (I think) with the intention of getting us to pay for services, such as New York Times etc, things which we're getting free now browsing on a computer.

Do we need this new product and market that Apple seems to have created, the world's business climate needs it ... but does the consumer.

The iPad will not be as productive as device to use as compared to a MacBook Air, not yet anyway. Very very convenient yes ... but looks what's it's doing already, a whole new market of software, accessories, ipad bags, keyboards is here now...

What are we going to carry our iPad with our laptops on the way to work because it's convenient to take from your briefcase and read the newspaper, and then once we arrive at the office we have to reach in our bag for our laptop to get 'real work' done ... now you're carrying less instead of more.

I don't know, the big picture is us all having some kind of powerful ipad device in the future with no laptops in use I guess ... the iPad by then will likely do it all .... plug it into peripherals and it'll be a work horse.

The demise of the laptop as we know it? Or, is the iPad a product we didn't need in the first place, .... I wonder?

I think this debate is being played out internally at Apple; hence the next round of updates is NOT going to include the MBA (Apple doesn't want anything to cannibalize the Book of Jobs).

For all of you just using the MBA to surf the web for only non-flash based sites: SHAME ON YOU!!!!

The MBA does a hell of a lot more and not using it properly is like having a beautiful wife that you never get to see--its a tragedy :(

I use my MBA for its full CS3 suite (yeah, remember those days when Apple used to allow Adobe products to work on their systems?), Word, Excel, and Powerpoint (which is awesome on the MBA for presentations). I use video conferencing on it, download songs/movies, stream Hulu with my friends (which brings me to a major complaint about the MBA--the speaker sucks!), and take notes in lectures (being able to write on pdfs is a wonderful thing).

Would I give up my MBA for the iPad, even a 3G one? Hell no!!!
If you need internet just BT-DUN through the iPhone. The MBA has allowed me to be so much more productive that I used to (even with a 12 inch Apple). I travel constantly and now I can bring my air EVERYWHERE. For short trips I'm now down to 1 messenger bag and that is purely amazing.

I'm curious to hear other MBA owners who use theirs similar to me: what has the iPad contributed that the Air didn't. I am rarely at home, but when I am I use the iMac for everything (BT mice/keyboards are great from bed FYI). What function will the iPad serve?

Digital Skunk
Apr 11, 2010, 06:35 PM
That is a better way to state "creation" vs. the "input from the user" I have been using to explain a computer's capabilities vs the iPad's capabilities.

I have been stating observation for what the user does with the iPad. I like your terms better.

You're right... the iPad is great for observation or consumption of data, videos, or whatever, but it's extremely inferior at "creation" of anything which is the point of working on a computer. We don't work to observe or consume, we work to create.

Nice post... exactly what my thoughts were and very first experience on the iPad was like.

No problem. That concept is what I've been reading a lot about, and it was also my first experience with the iPad. My biggest problem is that I am a freelancer, one that's always making something even if I am not getting paid for it (such as updating my site or blog) so I am always creating something.

My 17" MBP is exporting a slideshow as I type this. So my machine is still working even while I am consuming media and info. The iPad would be perfect if I just consumed media at any time, and never created anything, and even at that point the MBP would still be a better choice at times. I guess the iPad would be great if I were going on vacation, but then there'd be no Aperture.

You don't have to zoom in but I get extra space. A website with a long column of text (basically any blog, article, or review site) I can fit more text on the screen without scrolling than you. I get almost as much text as a 17" MacBook Pro and I have a 9.7" device. That is a BIG advantage of using portrait mode.

A laptop on it's side is impossible to use.

Or one could just shrink the web browsing screen instead of having all that space. Like the bottom picture.

Then I have more room to do other things.

entatlrg
Apr 11, 2010, 07:31 PM
A few guys from my office ordered iPads ... half of received them from the States by now ... already I've decided I'll resell mine to some other Canadian who's drooling waiting for the Canadian release date.

Like some posted I'm always creating something too ... so far with my limited iPad testing I'm already frustrated ... for example we're looking for a new home, what better device to sit on the couch and browse through mls listings ... but no flash means no go ... so back to grabbing the macbook air... for me it's not worth the inconvenience of carrying an extra device in my bag ..... especially when for my applications it does everything about half as good.

In the meantime I've over come iPad fever and just ordered the Sony Z too use as my ultraportable/netbook/iPad for a while .... just pop in my 3G internet stick and I've got near desktop power - anywhere ... at three pounds that's the same as the iPad and keyboard .... huge difference in price yes, but I use my devices for my business, price is no concern.

We'll see what Tuesday brings for the MBA if nothing develops I've got the new Z to play with, if it's big news I'll order it too and compare :)

drjsway
Apr 11, 2010, 08:06 PM
Or one could just shrink the web browsing screen instead of having all that space. Like the bottom picture.

Then I have more room to do other things.

Still doesn't change the fact that you get 1024 vertical lines instead of 800. As far as background tasks, that's coming in 4.0.

Digital Skunk
Apr 11, 2010, 09:28 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that you get 1024 vertical lines instead of 800. As far as background tasks, that's coming in 4.0.

True about the 1024, but the multitasking isn't anywhere near WebOS or a full fledged computer.

Scottsdale
Apr 11, 2010, 10:16 PM
I think this debate is being played out internally at Apple; hence the next round of updates is NOT going to include the MBA (Apple doesn't want anything to cannibalize the Book of Jobs).

For all of you just using the MBA to surf the web for only non-flash based sites: SHAME ON YOU!!!!

The MBA does a hell of a lot more and not using it properly is like having a beautiful wife that you never get to see--its a tragedy :(

I use my MBA for its full CS3 suite (yeah, remember those days when Apple used to allow Adobe products to work on their systems?), Word, Excel, and Powerpoint (which is awesome on the MBA for presentations). I use video conferencing on it, download songs/movies, stream Hulu with my friends (which brings me to a major complaint about the MBA--the speaker sucks!), and take notes in lectures (being able to write on pdfs is a wonderful thing).

Would I give up my MBA for the iPad, even a 3G one? Hell no!!!
If you need internet just BT-DUN through the iPhone. The MBA has allowed me to be so much more productive that I used to (even with a 12 inch Apple). I travel constantly and now I can bring my air EVERYWHERE. For short trips I'm now down to 1 messenger bag and that is purely amazing.

I'm curious to hear other MBA owners who use theirs similar to me: what has the iPad contributed that the Air didn't. I am rarely at home, but when I am I use the iMac for everything (BT mice/keyboards are great from bed FYI). What function will the iPad serve?

Do you honestly believe Apple wouldn't prefer selling a $1799 MBA rather than a $699 iPad? I think that logic is completely backwards. Apple makes half its revenue from the Macs, and it's not going to drop them to sell iPads at less than half the price.

I don't know that not introducing the MBA now is a bad thing. I don't want this decision on graphics to be taken lightly. If we don't get it now, it would certainly come at WWDC in June/July.

There is speculation that even the 13" MBP isn't going to be released yet. It might be that Apple is still working around the Nvidia GPU/Intel Arrandale problem. Apple used the Nvidia chipset/GPU in every Mac except the Mac Pro. That means the low-end MBPs are going to probably get the same graphics as the MBA, MB, Mm, and even low-end iMac.

I definitely believe that Apple is in deep with the MBP and Mac Pro buyers who have literally ancient technology (in the digital age 10+ and 14+ month old computers are ancient). Apple can get away with selling an old MBA, because most of the users just don't care what's in it. Us fans in this MBA forum are not the average MBA buyer... we care about the value proposition of the MBA based on the components and price vs. the same MBA ten plus months ago - it's abnormal because Apple pushed the coolness and form factor not the internals.

We can still get an MBA this week, when the MBPs are updated, or by WWDC. Don't give up hope or blame it on the iPad. The MBA and iPad are two completely different markets.

ddd269
Apr 12, 2010, 11:48 PM
I just picked up my iPad this afternoon and haven't put it down yet.

It is pretty cool! Sure, it's kind of like a giant iPod touch but with subtle differences. Size appropriate differences, I might add. Love the magazines with iPad specific content. Couple of freebie mags and one of them was macworld on the zinio app. I found this article interesting...

First Mac, then iPhone, now iPad: Apple’s ongoing effort to simplify computing
BY DAN MOREN

This month, I’m handing my space over to Senior Associate Editor Dan Moren, who was with me at Apple’s iPad announcement and has some interesting thoughts about where that product might lead us.—JASON SNELL

A few years ago, I took my MacBook into an Apple Store to get it serviced. The two Geniuses there looked it over with the same critical eye that car enthusiasts might give to a hot rod. “Look,” said one, “he’s replaced the battery monitor in the menu bar. And he’s got the Dock down in the bottom right of the screen.”

Techies wear their tweaks and optimizations as badges of honor. But something strange happened after I watched Steve Jobs introduce the iPad. I looked at all those little inscrutable icons in my MacBook’s menu bar and saw them for what they were: hacks and shortcuts to “fix” the way the computer worked. “Surely,” I thought, “there must be a better way.”

Removing the Buttons

In 1984, Apple introduced the Mac and first brought a graphical user interface to the masses. “Look,” Apple said, “computers are powerful, useful tools, but they’re clumsy and inelegant. Let us show you a better way.” Of course, the Mac was derided as a toy by those who had grown accustomed to typing their instructions at a command line.

But look where we are now: Every subsequent personal computer operating system has followed the Mac’s example. Twenty-six years later, we’re all interacting with our computers with a cursordriven interface in which we point, click, and drag.

But as good as the Mac interface is, Apple realized that it isn’t good enough. While PC makers have been adding extra buttons and controls to try to give users more ways to tell their computers what to do, Apple has been headed in the opposite direction by removing the buttons.

A New Way of Doing Things

The smartphone market gave Apple an opportunity to implement these ideas on a more compact canvas. Seventy-five million iPhones and iPod touches later, the touchscreen interface has become familiar; users have learned a new way of doing things.

But even now, the iPad is a bold, ambitious product. Like the iPhone, it abstracts the nitty-gritty details of a computer’s underpinnings and removes obstructions to the tasks you actually want to do. Much of the negative response to the iPad seems filled with anger (which, as Yoda pointed out, stems from fear). Much of that anger comes from power users who like dealing with the underpinnings of their computers. I don’t think Apple wants to kill off tinkerers—it just wants to make sure that you don’t have to be a tinkerer to use a computer.

Making Computing Easier

Few people mourned the damage the personal computer dealt to the typewriter, and most of those who did were either a) fueled by nostalgia or b) people who made typewriters. Few people mourned the damage that e-mail and the Internet dealt to the fax machine—in fact, we’re mostly just pretty ticked off that the fax machine is still persistently clinging to life at all. In both instances, people embraced the new technology because it was, well, better.

The iPad represents the next phase of computing. Apple isn’t the only one to realize it, either. What Google is doing with its Chrome OS is different than what Apple is doing with the iPad. But they’re both aimed at the same target: making computing easier for the average user. I wager that we’ll see a touchscreen tablet running Chrome OS within a year of the software’s release, though I am skeptical of how effective that combination will be.

The iPad won’t kill the computer any more than the graphical user interface did away with the command line. (It’s still there, remember?) But it is Apple’s way of saying, once again, that there’s a better way. Regardless of how many people buy the iPad, it’s not hard to look forward a few years and imagine a world where more and more people are interacting with technology in this new way. Even if it often seems to do just the opposite, the ultimate goal of technology has always been to make life easier.

blairh
Apr 13, 2010, 11:42 PM
But even now, the iPad is a bold, ambitious product. Like the iPhone, it abstracts the nitty-gritty details of a computer’s underpinnings and removes obstructions to the tasks you actually want to do.
[/COLOR]

Couple points.

Regarding what I've quoted. Removes obstructions to the tasks you actually want to do? Can someone explain how the iPad does this exactly? I don't look at my MBP as having obstructions that get in the way when I want to do something, even simple things like browsing the web.

I think this article makes a mistake in trying to substitute the use of the word "easier" when really it means "dumbing down". Look, if you want to do simple tasks and you like doing them on your iPad, great. I'm happy that works for you. But personally there isn't a single thing the iPad does where I go "right, I'd want one to do that instead of the current setup of Apple products I use". Sure, "simpler" computers may be great for grandma and grandpa, your five year old. But should we really be excited that the iPad is "simpler" to use than a laptop or desktop? Honestly if I had a six year old I'd put an iMac in their room and I'd teach them how to use it. If anything the current generation of kids are more advanced then any other generation because they have access to the technological tools that were not available in the past. Think about how many times you've stumbled upon a video on Youtube by some kid between the ages of 10 - 13 doing a review on a tech product or giving an opinion. In all likelihood they shot, edited, and uploaded that footage onto Youtube.

Do you want to know what I respect about the iPad? It gives consumers a choice on the go when they want to consume media and want/need something bigger than a smartphone but something other than a laptop. I see the advantage of that. You don't have to sit on that plane or train and prop that laptop on the tray in front of you. I see the appeal in that. And the option to turn a 3G data plan on and off is brilliant. But that's the future of computing? Um, no.

Once tablets start running real OS's and come in widescreens (for easier typing on a virtual keyboard and proper movie viewing) I'll start to take it seriously. While the iPad offers the consumer a new option, for now it's nothing more than a device that runs a compromised web experience, an ereader on an illuminated screen, a movie player on a 4:3 aspect ratio screen (where you need to purchase your movies/tv shows from iTunes or convert files to play on the iPad itself), games without proper tactile controls, and an awkward on-screen keyboard. Despite those flaws, it can work for some people. For twice the price of an iPad you can get the now "old" baseline MBP, add 3.5 lbs to your bag, and not make a single compromise. Yes, maybe you don't need that much computer, but you also make no compromises in your experience.

AAPLaday
Apr 14, 2010, 04:03 AM
Do you honestly believe Apple wouldn't prefer selling a $1799 MBA rather than a $699 iPad? I think that logic is completely backwards. Apple makes half its revenue from the Macs, and it's not going to drop them to sell iPads at less than half the price.

Depends, i think they would prefer to sell 3 iPads to one MBA as it will lead to further switchers and also theres the big iTunes cash cow that the iPad and iPhone have helped to become even more profitable.

Scottsdale
Apr 14, 2010, 07:05 PM
Depends, i think they would prefer to sell 3 iPads to one MBA as it will lead to further switchers and also theres the big iTunes cash cow that the iPad and iPhone have helped to become even more profitable.

Let me tell you the cash cow in the App Store, iTunes music and video content... it sells MORE iPhones, iPod Touches, iPads, and Macs. Seriously, Apple isn't making a ton of money on music, videos, and apps. It uses the advantage of having those on Apple devices that it sells MORE AND MORE Apple products. Apple would rather sell three iPads than one MBA, absolutely. But Apple wouldn't rather sell an iPad over an MBA.

I wrote an article on this very topic for a magazine. I will post a link here when it goes live in the issue. Or, send me a PM with your email address if you want it before that and I will send you a copy of it in a PDF.

lucifiel
Apr 14, 2010, 07:53 PM
Let me tell you the cash cow in the App Store, iTunes music and video content... it sells MORE iPhones, iPod Touches, iPads, and Macs. Seriously, Apple isn't making a ton of money on music, videos, and apps. It uses the advantage of having those on Apple devices that it sells MORE AND MORE Apple products. Apple would rather sell three iPads than one MBA, absolutely. But Apple wouldn't rather sell an iPad over an MBA.

I wrote an article on this very topic for a magazine. I will post a link here when it goes live in the issue. Or, send me a PM with your email address if you want it before that and I will send you a copy of it in a PDF.

Post the link, I would like to see the logic behind that. Personally I think (and without research), there is a possibility that the iPad margins are greater, or as they are easier to sell (lower entry price etc) the volume will make up the difference.

It's a little simplistic to compare "one iPad v one MBA" if you ignore the fact that the iPad is designed to be more market permeating than the MBA.