more money doesn't equal better education.

[Leo Hubbard]

LOS ANGELES -- Los Angeles County has millions of adults who struggle to read and write English -- yet only about one in five enrolls in a literacy program and half of them promptly drop out, according to a study released Wednesday.
http://www.nbc4.tv/education/3716464/detail.html

Doesn't Los Angeles vote primarily Democrat?

[Chip NoVaMac]

Not sure about how they vote, but when posting an article it is better to post the whole thing, or portions that also provide balance.

From your link:


The survey documented a situation the county has faced for decades: A large population of immigrants struggling to learn a foreign language.

A majority of adults who enrolled in literacy programs wanted to learn skills needed for their jobs or to find work. But only about 30 percent of the programs were tailored for workforce needs, the survey found.


Findings:


About 3.8 million people 16 or older in the county had "low-literacy" levels, based on 2000 Census data. That included those who, for example, couldn't read a prescription bottle or bus schedule.

About 592,000 adults were enrolled in literacy programs between 2002 and 2003. Of those, 50 percent dropped out after three weeks.

Two-thirds of the programs offered evening classes. None offered classes on weekends.

Los Angeles, Long Beach, Glendale, Pomona and El Monte had the largest populations of people considered "low-literate."


Recommendations:


The survey offered recommendations for a five-year initiative to improve literacy, including connecting English learners with employers and educating 1,000 workers with English-language deficiencies during the next two years.

Clark said the campaign plans to raise $2 million during the next year.


At least for me doing a casual read of your post, I come away with a much better understanding of the problem.

I fail to see a connection between illiteracy and which party one votes for.

[yellow]

How many illiterates actually vote? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but how many ESL drop-outs are actually American citizens who actually can vote? You're now stretching Leo.

[Chip NoVaMac]

How many illiterates actually vote? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but how many ESL drop-outs are actually American citizens who actually can vote? You're now stretching Leo.

Sorry yellow you are right. From: http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/


1- a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;

2 - residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing;
an ability to read, write, and speak English;

3 - a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
good moral character;

4 - attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
favorable disposition toward the United States.


With numbers 2 through 3, i wonder how many of some politicians would be able to pass. Or even the rest of us?

[Krizoitz]

And where does this more money thing come in? Have you actually been to many of the schools in LA? I have and I gaurentee you that they don't have lots of money.

And while more money doesn't necessarilly lead to a better education, I guarantee you that less money leads to worse education.

[zimv20]

is it me or is there big disconnect between the article contents and the thread title?

[Chip NoVaMac]

is it me or is there big disconnect between the article contents and the thread title?

I think you are right.

I hope I stayed within topic.

As I say it, it was talking more about adult ESOL classes. Not within the 1 through 12 system, though there are many 16 to 18 that don't meet the requirements.

These kids actually may not be part of the traditional educational system. They may find necessary to to work than to attend school.

[yellow]

Ah Google feedback ads.. the one at the bottom of this thread is for learned different languages.

Edit: at least briefly.

[pseudobrit]

is it me or is there big disconnect between the article contents and the thread title?

Let's not be hypocrites here. Just awhile ago, I clicked on your thread titled Health Care Premiums Jump 11.2 Percent.

"Disconnect" doesn't even begin to describe the disparity from what I read therein.

You tricky bastard, you fooled us all.
Bait and switch, says I.

(oh, and to address the title [but not the topic of the article it was based on] of this thread, if more money doesn't equal better education, then why do the wealthiest people of the world choose the most expensive schools for their children?)

[zimv20]

Let's not be hypocrites here. Just awhile ago, I clicked on your thread titled Health Care Premiums Jump 11.2 Percent.

"Disconnect" doesn't even begin to describe the disparity from what I read therein.

You tricky bastard, you fooled us all.
Bait and switch, says I.

i thought it very important we discuss chicago bears football and my new waffle iron.

i am a bad person.

[trebblekicked]

i thought it very important we discuss chicago bears football and my new waffle iron.

i am a bad person.

and the first actual LOL of the day goes to zimv. thank you.

You're now stretching Leo.

now?

[zimv20]

and the first actual LOL of the day goes to zimv.

so late in the day? damn, that must have been a crappy day. or perhaps just very serious.

[trebblekicked]

heh. twelve hours of DVD authoring (the old school kind, using DVDSP 1.5). i tried to find the funny in scripting, but alas...

i hesitate to call that crappy or serious, though. calling any of my days crappy or serious would be a major insult to the billions of people who live crappy and/or serious lives.

<EDIT> not to contribute to the thread drift or anything</EDIT>

[skunk]

(oh, and to address the title [but not the topic of the article it was based on] of this thread, if more money doesn't equal better education, then why do the wealthiest people of the world choose the most expensive schools for their children?)
Networking.

[Desertrat]

What the heck. We have a thread about the general notion of education and money. We could get at least halfway serious. :)

Public school districts seem to be judged by dollars per student per year. They don't seem to be judged on budget allocations, or where/how the money is spent. To me, the first measure doesn't tell anything meaningful.

For instance, in one of the lower $/student/yr districts in Texas, the average SAT scores are among the state's highest. The reason for this is separate from just gross dollar numbers. It has to be.

When I talk about budget allocation, a good example of a bad example is right nearby in Alpine, Texas. They wanted a particular hotshot highschool football coach. He had a minimum salary requirement, and he wouldn't take the job without bringing his pet assistant coach with him. His salary demand was more than what the school principal was paid. By Texas law, the principal MUST be paid more than a coach. So, sure enough, the school district hired him and the assistant and raised the principal's salary. To me, that's right at $200,000 a year of wasted money that won't be spent on maintenance or school supplies or teachers' salaries.

To go back to the subject of the opening post of this thread, the obvious flaw in fighting the problem of illiteracy has to do with the design of the courses. Some of it must be in the scheduling or timing of availability for the would-be students. If there is a large number of three-week dropouts, there could well be some problem(s) in the curriculum itself.

When looking at born-here citizens who need these courses, one is then brought back to the "Why?" of the existing school systems. While many disparage the problems as inherent with some ethnicities, that's not at all correct. Too many anglos "graduate" from highschool without being able to make change. (I haven't a clue how you get to age 18 without being able to make change.)

Overall, nationwide, the problem doesn't seem to be a lack of money so much as a misallocation of what money we have...

'Rat

[Chip NoVaMac]

'Rat,

Very well said.

I think one of the issues in Texas as portrayed by your example is how sports (football in particular) are next to Church (as well as many others states too). I know some here will disagree, but sports at the High School level should not just be about the winning.

People's values are just so screwed up at times.

I took from the article that sparked this thread, that the classes in question are the ESOL classes. Because these immigrants are among the lowest paid workers, and work scattered hours. Accommodations need to make way for the real world.

As to the drop out rate, I wish they had addressed that more directly. Is it that the work hours shifted, and no means of switching classes is provided for?

[yellow]

San Dimas High School football RULES!