Dual G5 running HD content

Appleboy1717 · Mar 26, 2010

Hey,

So, I have two machines. A dual 1.8ghz G5 with 5gb ram. And a new 2.66ghz macbook pro with 4gb ram and 7200rpm drive. For everyday use, the Macbook is faster, but not by much and I prefer to just use the G5 because of the bigger screen. However, the G5 is mainly my media center (store all of my movies and TV shows on it). I really like HD and the Macbook will run 1080P without a problem, but the G5 will only run 720P, and only some at that. Some 720P videos it will skip with. It is a solid machine, (I know they are older, but it really is not bad, and is there anyway I can make it handle all 720P smoothly?
For storage, searching the web, and watching movies, this computer is still great. But more and more things are in HD now and it is a bummer having some of them skip a few times when watching.
Anyone else run HD??

Thanks,

~Teal

Bennieboy© · Mar 26, 2010

i think your only option is a faster machine, or connect a HD tele to your macbook, i've got a 2Ghz G5 and it will run most 720P HD video, but i'm not sure about upgrading the processors,

Appleboy1717 · Mar 26, 2010

Bennieboy© said:
i think your only option is a faster machine, or connect a HD tele to your macbook, i've got a 2Ghz G5 and it will run most 720P HD video, but i'm not sure about upgrading the processors,

Yeah, well as I was saying it will also play most, but there are some it does not play and I didn't know if getting a better video card would take care of that or not.

iamcheerful · Mar 27, 2010

The details below are from Apple's QT Tech Specs Page.

~~A simple suggestion before you embark on a journey of exploration (see below), try playback with PLEX ... (as I typed this, I suddenly recalled that PLEX (http://www.plexapp.com/) is intel only ...~~

Also, if you are trying to play "flash-based HD videos" I am not aware of a workaround that will enable a smooth experience.

With regards to the GPU/video card. It will most likely help if there's a video card compatible with the G5 that is able to assist with h264 decoding. If I'm not mistaken, even the latest Mac Pro doesn't have such an option as opposed to the macbooks and macbook pros fitted with the nvidia cards ... Someone else may be able to advise you more accurately on this matter.

I'm not too familiar with the G5s lower than 2GHz, but if you have the time and don't mind experimenting. Explore the following ...

1) Install a completely fresh OS X (choice of 10.4 or 10.5)
2) Install VLC (PPC version)
3) Try 1080p video with VLC, if frame rates are terrible, try 720p*
*Apple does state that 720p with the 1.8GHz G5 suffice. What they failed to point out if a Dual 1.8Ghz G5 will suffice for 1080p.

I suggested VLC because I notice that VLC typically uses less CPU than QT/QT X. ~~If you require a player that uses multiple cores/cpus. Try PLEX. It may help in processing the HD video.~~

Appleboy1717 · Mar 27, 2010

iamcheerful said:
The details below are from Apple's QT Tech Specs Page.

~~A simple suggestion before you embark on a journey of exploration (see below), try playback with PLEX ... (as I typed this, I suddenly recalled that PLEX (http://www.plexapp.com/) is intel only ...~~

Also, if you are trying to play "flash-based HD videos" I am not aware of a workaround that will enable a smooth experience.

With regards to the GPU/video card. It will most likely help if there's a video card compatible with the G5 that is able to assist with h264 decoding. If I'm not mistaken, even the latest Mac Pro doesn't have such an option as opposed to the macbooks and macbook pros fitted with the nvidia cards ... Someone else may be able to advise you more accurately on this matter.

I'm not too familiar with the G5s lower than 2GHz, but if you have the time and don't mind experimenting. Explore the following ...

1) Install a completely fresh OS X (choice of 10.4 or 10.5)
2) Install VLC (PPC version)
3) Try 1080p video with VLC, if frame rates are terrible, try 720p*
*Apple does state that 720p with the 1.8GHz G5 suffice. What they failed to point out if a Dual 1.8Ghz G5 will suffice for 1080p.

I suggested VLC because I notice that VLC typically uses less CPU than QT/QT X. ~~If you require a player that uses multiple cores/cpus. Try PLEX. It may help in processing the HD video.~~

Plex seems pretty cool. I will have to check it out.
What were you saying about a macbook pro being better than the macpro because of the nvidia chipset??

iamcheerful · Mar 27, 2010

Appleboy1717 said:
Plex seems pretty cool. I will have to check it out.
What were you saying about a macbook pro being better than the macpro because of the nvidia chipset??

I've to disappoint you with the news on PLEX. By the way, the " s /s " tag doesn't work. it was supposed to do a strikethru', meaning it isn't a valid statement.

As for the nvidia comment ... see this Apple Tech Specs page.

QuickTime H.264 hardware acceleration
requires a Mac with an NVIDIA 9400M graphics processor.

My current understanding is that only this particular GPU offered by Apple has the needed drivers (i.e. only this hardware and software) to aid in hardware decoding of h264.

There was a news post (if I'm not mistaken, based on a thread in MacRumors) that compared the CPU utilization when HD video was played on the mac. It unmistakably showed that the portable was using a lower %CPU as compared to the Mac Pro (which didn't have help from the GPU at all).

I'll try to find that thread and news posting later.

iamcheerful · Mar 27, 2010

I found the links ...

a) MGLXP's forum thread.
b) MacRumors News Post (based on MGLXP's thread) (Click Here for the 9 pages of discussion.)

Hope the above 2 discussion threads help you in finding a sweet spot for 720p / 1080p playback. I'll leave you to dig up the necessary information pertaining to your issue. Do provide an update to your findings too if possible. I'm interested and I'm sure many other G5 users are too.

Tia!

iamcheerful · Mar 27, 2010

pardon my triple posts, decided it would be better to post per normal due to the lapse in time.

Another tidbit I missed out from my original post. I recalled reading about this years ago but couldn't recall exactly where. Anyway, here's the info

Does H.264 require special hardware?
While H.264 is a computationally advanced codec, it runs on todays shipping computers with no additional hardware required. For example, a full HD movie (1920x1080, 8 Mbps, 24 fps) encoded with H.264 plays back beautifully on a dual Power Mac G5. Internet-sized content (40kbps - 300kbps) will run on the most basic of processors, like those in mobile phones and consumer-level computers.

Source - http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/h264/faq.html

The phrase "dual Power Mac G5" sure does sound promising for your dual 1.8GHz G5. Let's hope with some exploration, it works out well for you and other dual G5 users. Don't place too much hopes for Flash content though. Also, while doing some searching, I came across this free tool which may aid in your adventure.

One thing to note is that, those words were penned when G5s were the most advanced Apple Systems. I'm not too certain how much h264 has evolved since then. Besides, always take marketing jargons/comments with a pinch of salt.

Appleboy1717 · Mar 28, 2010

iamcheerful said:
I found the links ...

a) MGLXP's forum thread.
b) MacRumors News Post (based on MGLXP's thread) (Click Here for the 9 pages of discussion.)

Hope the above 2 discussion threads help you in finding a sweet spot for 720p / 1080p playback. I'll leave you to dig up the necessary information pertaining to your issue. Do provide an update to your findings too if possible. I'm interested and I'm sure many other G5 users are too.

Tia!

Those were all talking about the Macbooks and mac pros and airs...not the G5. Someone brought up a good point earlier, wondering if VLC used both processors when playing back video, or if it was only single core supported.
Is VLC the best program to watch HD in? Is there a better one that would play smoother?

Appleboy1717 · Mar 30, 2010

Appleboy1717 said:
Those were all talking about the Macbooks and mac pros and airs...not the G5. Someone brought up a good point earlier, wondering if VLC used both processors when playing back video, or if it was only single core supported.
Is VLC the best program to watch HD in? Is there a better one that would play smoother?

Hey,
So, I was playing around with Handbreak and I noticed you can convert things to mp4. So lets say I have a show that 7gb 720P in an mkv file, and I convert it to an mp4 file which is like 3-4gb. Is it going to take less power? Is there a better way to convert them or scale it down or whatever?

iamcheerful · Mar 30, 2010

Indeed, those links are/were talking about the portables and the mac pro. I gave you the links to show you that even the Mac Pros were kinda left out. We can easily imagine where the G5s stand ... (sad but true).

Given that 10.6.3 has just been released, the situation may differ. One other thing to note is that QT X native (i.e. w/o Perian plugin) apparently does give a little aid to h264 clips. Most Mac Pro users do not really bother with such nitty gritty as they generally have more than enough CPU power to handle the processing.

Anyway, back to the points ...
1) VLC doesn't scale well with multiple CPUs/cores. Transcoding/Encoding using VLC probably makes use of multiple CPUs/cores but from my understand, decoding h264 doesn't. To my knowledge, only PLEX does it (but PLEX is only for Intel Macs)

2) Converting the videos will likely reduce the frame dropping etc kind of issues. Explore what settings work best for your machine. At the back of my mind, I'm thinking divx hd. The reason is because divx typically plays quite well even on an aging G4 400MHz, divx hd may require a bit more power though. A quick link for your convenience.

Update:
Here's a quote from a user who commented on cnet:

"Pros: Performance and quality playback of High Def videos
No stuttering on HD
Cool design and nice touches like the mouse gestures for FFW and RW
Cons: Only for Macs with Intel processors, OS X 10.4 and up. Well, that's life.
Summary: One of the best players for HD content in the new MKV format, QT and others"

Unfortunately, pretty much everything is coded and optimized for intel macs ...

Appleboy1717 · Mar 30, 2010

iamcheerful said:
Indeed, those links are/were talking about the portables and the mac pro. I gave you the links to show you that even the Mac Pros were kinda left out. We can easily imagine where the G5s stand ... (sad but true).

Given that 10.6.3 has just been released, the situation may differ. One other thing to note is that QT X native (i.e. w/o Perian plugin) apparently does give a little aid to h264 clips. Most Mac Pro users do not really bother with such nitty gritty as they generally have more than enough CPU power to handle the processing.

Anyway, back to the points ...
1) VLC doesn't scale well with multiple CPUs/cores. Transcoding/Encoding using VLC probably makes use of multiple CPUs/cores but from my understand, decoding h264 doesn't. To my knowledge, only PLEX does it (but PLEX is only for Intel Macs)

2) Converting the videos will likely reduce the frame dropping etc kind of issues. Explore what settings work best for your machine. At the back of my mind, I'm thinking divx hd. The reason is because divx typically plays quite well even on an aging G4 400MHz, divx hd may require a bit more power though. A quick link for your convenience.

Update:
Here's a quote from a user who commented on cnet:

Unfortunately, pretty much everything is coded and optimized for intel macs ...

Divx looks good, but it would not convert mkv files, which are the files which I would like to convert.
Any other ideas, or programs that would utilize the processors better.
Anything would be nice. The G5 is a great little machine to have, and works great for storage and everyday use, and I really like using it as my media center, but not being able to watch 720P is killing me, but if there was a way to convert it, but at least keep some of the quality would work for me.

Appleboy1717 · Apr 1, 2010

Appleboy1717 said:
Divx looks good, but it would not convert mkv files, which are the files which I would like to convert.
Any other ideas, or programs that would utilize the processors better.
Anything would be nice. The G5 is a great little machine to have, and works great for storage and everyday use, and I really like using it as my media center, but not being able to watch 720P is killing me, but if there was a way to convert it, but at least keep some of the quality would work for me.

So pretty much there is no way to watch 720P movies on this computer....without it being jumpy....

Appleboy1717 · Apr 1, 2010

Appleboy1717 said:
So pretty much there is no way to watch 720P movies on this computer....without it being jumpy....

Ok, last question.
Is there is way to scale down a 720P video to where it would play on a G5, but still be better quality then normal video. Find a happy median?

iamcheerful · Apr 1, 2010

Appleboy1717 said:
So pretty much there is no way to watch 720P movies on this computer....without it being jumpy....

1) See post 4. Specifically ...

2) Experiment and explore (again, this is suggested in post 4, see the comments immediately below the specs image). Instead of reformatting, you can always use an external hdd to boot the G5 (assuming you have a spare external)

Appleboy1717 said:
Ok, last question.
Is there is way to scale down a 720P video to where it would play on a G5, but still be better quality then normal video. Find a happy median?

As you've stated in post 10 - using Handbrake to process the video. There're users who are very pleased with the iPod Touch preset in 0.9.4 (update the presets after you download Handbrake). You can also try Apple TV preset. This is more demanding than the iPod Touch but it may work out well on your dual G5.

As always, you've to experiment a bit as I don't have a G5 anymore to play around with. I may be getting a G5 again as the prices are very attractive. When/If I do, I'll be glad to explore together.

Appleboy1717 · Apr 2, 2010

iamcheerful said:
1) See post 4. Specifically ...

2) Experiment and explore (again, this is suggested in post 4, see the comments immediately below the specs image). Instead of reformatting, you can always use an external hdd to boot the G5 (assuming you have a spare external)

As you've stated in post 10 - using Handbrake to process the video. There're users who are very pleased with the iPod Touch preset in 0.9.4 (update the presets after you download Handbrake). You can also try Apple TV preset. This is more demanding than the iPod Touch but it may work out well on your dual G5.

As always, you've to experiment a bit as I don't have a G5 anymore to play around with. I may be getting a G5 again as the prices are very attractive. When/If I do, I'll be glad to explore together.

How does using the external drive help with playing HD content?
I would like to hear about that, and will try it.

iamcheerful · Apr 3, 2010

Appleboy1717 said:
How does using the external drive help with playing HD content?
I would like to hear about that, and will try it.

it doesn't necessarily help in playing HD content.
I suggested external because I was thinking you may not want to format your current hdd to reinstall the OS just to try playing the HD content.

I am merely wanting you to explore playback of HD content on your G5 using a FRESH install of OS X because according to Apple (see previous posts), your system IS ABLE to handle 720p content efficiently.

A suggested procedure ...
1) Use the restore DVD(s) or CDs to revert your G5 to factory settings
2) Before performing any software updates, go to Apple QT HD page and try playback of 1080p and 720p video clips
3) Run Apple's Software Update
4) Try again on the same video clips
5) Try playback with VLC

See if it makes any difference.

p.s. if you can, restore the entire system onto your internal hdd. (i think restore discs only work on internal drives, so you probably may not be able to restore to an external hdd even if you wanted to. well, there're ways to do it but never mind that).

Appleboy1717 · Apr 6, 2010

So, i did this.
http://www.chipmunkninja.com/1080p-MKV-playback-on-Mac-1r@
And it worked great!!! I can now play everything smooth except one movie... I am very happy.
What does this do exactly???

iamcheerful · Apr 6, 2010

Under Skip the loop filter for H.264 decoding, select All. By default None is selected. (Thanks to Zach Riggle for pointing out that this really degrades your video quality a lot try other settings instead. Ive had good luck with Non-ref so far).

In short, it appears to reduce the quality, thus requiring less CPU power to process.

Some users had different mileage but found alternatives such as ...
1) http://mplayerosx.sttz.ch/ (this version apparently is multithread-aware)
2) http://xbmc.org/
3) PLEX
4) external hdd (7200 rpm)

Just happy that whatever works for us.

666sheep · Apr 7, 2010

xmbc and PLEX are Intel only, so will be worthless for OP

OP, thx for linking this chipmunkninja site. I will test this VLC trick with my PB 1.67 which is "little" laggy with 720p.

quantum003 · Apr 7, 2010

Just use Handbrake dude... there's a check box in the basic settings where you can tell it to "optimize to a certain size"... then ratchet it way, way, down... I usually tell it to shoot for 300-400MB for a full length length film. Maybe I'm just not picky with my video quality, but that works perfectly well for me.

Appleboy1717 · Apr 9, 2010

quantum003 said:
Just use Handbrake dude... there's a check box in the basic settings where you can tell it to "optimize to a certain size"... then ratchet it way, way, down... I usually tell it to shoot for 300-400MB for a full length length film. Maybe I'm just not picky with my video quality, but that works perfectly well for me.

Well, thats the point. I am pretty picky. And 300-400 is pretty bad. The HD is about 4-8gb per movie. lol. With the vlc trick it plays everything totally smooth but one movie I have which probably just had some wack settings or something. I am pretty happy using it as my entertainment center.
Anyone else using a G5 as an entertainment center??

bzollinger · Apr 9, 2010

Appleboy1717 said:
Well, thats the point. I am pretty picky. And 300-400 is pretty bad. The HD is about 4-8gb per movie. lol. With the vlc trick it plays everything totally smooth but one movie I have which probably just had some wack settings or something. I am pretty happy using it as my entertainment center.
Anyone else using a G5 as an entertainment center??

Yep, I've been using my dual 2.0 G5 for a media center for since I bought it! I too have some issues with video playback. I'll take a look at that link you posted.

Appleboy1717 · Apr 9, 2010

bzollinger said:
Yep, I've been using my dual 2.0 G5 for a media center for since I bought it! I too have some issues with video playback. I'll take a look at that link you posted.

Yeah, check it out. It actually works really well.

Dual G5 running HD content

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