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Banniker
Apr 4, 2010, 06:25 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm in an audio production class and am doing a studio design project that requires me to plan an audio studio with a fantasy budget of $100,000 for equipment. I'm only considering equipment- not real estate or construction aspects.

My fantasy studio will serve commercial clients (radio ads, multimedia) as well as small-scale music recording and should also have some audio-for-picture capabilities. I'm not very fond of Pro Tools and after doing some research I decided that a Mac Pro with Logic Studio will probably suit my needs just fine.

However, since I'm not an audio engineer by any means, I'm not sure what I'll need to consider for I/O into Logic. Is there anything specific I should look for in my console? Does anyone have any console recommendations? And what other hardware do I need for a console to talk to Logic? Are there special audio-for-picture considerations to make?

Remember my budget is $100k, so feel free to suggest things you'd probably never suggest to a typical poster on the forum. And feel free to tell me what you put in a $100k studio-- it might give me more ideas.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!



hakukani
Apr 4, 2010, 10:19 PM
Truthfully, I'd just lurk out at the gearslutz forum. They can spend 100k in the twinkling of an eye--heck you can spend that just on mikes.

For interfaces I'd start looking at RME.

ChrisA
Apr 4, 2010, 10:48 PM
Remember my budget is $100k, so feel free to suggest things you'd probably never suggest to a typical poster on the forum. And feel free to tell me what you put in a $100k studio-- it might give me more ideas.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!

You first step is to proportion you budget. Cut it up into smaller budgets. Think f what yu ned, mics, preamps control surfaces, monitors.

And then computers. The computer is a single point of failure so have a backup plan. Plan for storage too, a big array and a backup plan and allow for off site redundant backup too.

Think of the entire process from microphone to mastering. Then at first divide the budget in equal chunks and go shopping foe each chunk.

My bet is you will end up short of cash. $100K is not even close to what you really need Just computers, a pair of Mac Pros is $10K and $5K just gets you into a good disk storage array and backup. Yo can spend $10 on mics easy.
Dn't forget the cables, room treatment.

But anyway that's the way to do it: Don't think about money, think abot function blocks and get each block a budget

It will be hard to get all this for $100k

Comma
Apr 5, 2010, 12:37 AM
$100,000 assuming a perfect room?

Computer(s)
- Mac Pro is probably your best bet. Upgrade some Storage, LCD Monitor $10,000
- Remember to have backups.

DAW/Software/Plug Ins
- Digidesign C|24 comes with Pro Tools HD ~$10,000
- Whatever plug ins you think is necessary.

Microphones
- I'd grab 3-5 different LDCs, 3-4 pairs of SDCs and a bunch of SM57/58, since they're so damned good. Probably a Kick Trigger Mic and maybe a set of Piezo's for drums

Monitors
- Two pairs are an easy 8-10k. Maybe supplement with a Sub and Monitor Switching Station.

Pre-Amps
- Fair chunk of money, not entirely sure what's best, but you probably can get about 8 Neve's for $20k

Audio Interface/Converters
- Comes with the C|24

Desk/Chair/Furniture
- $1000-5000 - I like having couches in my room, nice desks, stands, racks for gear, keyboard stands, etc and so on and so forth.

Outboard Gear
- Effects if you so desire, maybe a synth or two, a guitar/bass. Any studio worth its while recording guitars will have a JCM800 and a 1960B in it. Probably a few quality reverbs and delays if you're going outboard, but otherwise after basics split this budget with the remaining software budget. If you've got a lot of outboard, patchbays and sub-mixers might help too.

Cables for the whole thing, an easy budget of 2-3k.

That's just a general overview in my eyes.

Banniker
Apr 5, 2010, 02:48 AM
Thanks for the help so far.

I found this on another forum-- pretty much the same problem, only with half the budget (but it's real money so I guess it's worth more).

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=276480

I had already decided on a super Mac Pro and Apogee converters, so I have some confidence in the recommendations of the third post:
1. A completely decked-out Mac Pro. I think there's an 8-core option now with something like 16GB of RAM. Plus, a secondary hard drive for backup data storage. Add a nice big display, and we'll say we've spent about $5k there. Add Logic Pro 8, and the tab's up another $500.
2. Apogee converters/preamps. Depending on how many channels I would record at once, I'd probably want 24 channels of good quality conversion. Three Ensemble units would do the job. $2k each.
3. FW-1884 Control Surface. We'll assume we're mixing in the box and just need a good control surface to streamline workflow (and flying faders to impress the clients). Add two FE-8 expanders to handle our number of tracks. Outlay = around $2,500.
4. Tannoy Reveal monitors. Just for the near field monitoring. About $1,200 for a pair. Plus another $4-5k for some custom monitors built into the control room... maybe Adam's or similar.
5. Neumann U-87. "Marquee" microphone. $2k.
6. Collection of good quality mic's for various uses: Shure KSM-32, KSM-27, SM-57 (x6), pair of SM-81's, AKG D112, AT-4033, and maybe a Royer ribbon. Total: $3k.
7. Avalon AD2022. IMHO, one of the best preamp units I've ever heard. Even though the Apogee's will work for drums, etc., you've got to have at least two really high-end channels. $2k.
8. Avalon VT-737SP. Something unique; all-around for vocals, DI bass, snare, etc. $1,750.
9. Argosy console for the FW-1884 (below). Need an ergonomic way to work, plus the "flash factor" for the clients. $1,500.
10. Lava lamp. $15.
Any disagreement with those recommendations? And what do you think of M-Audio monitors? I know M-Audio is generally reputable but I can get five of their best monitors for less than $4500 so I'm wondering if they're low-end as far as monitors go.

Thanks again!

joe.cavers
Apr 5, 2010, 04:22 AM
For interfaces I'd start looking at RME.

On a $100,000 budget? Are you kidding?

Mytek converters all the way.

JC

Comma
Apr 5, 2010, 08:52 AM
Monitors, I'd look at Dynaudio, Genelec, Adam, Mackie, Mayer. Personally Dynaudio's though.

hakukani
Apr 6, 2010, 01:13 AM
Nope, I'd look at Barefoots. Monitors are VERY important. More important than converters.

Mikes and monitors are the most important choices, disregarding room treatment, converters etc. Mac Pro is the best choice for using Logic.

Look at Pelusos (http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/) for mics, and any of the barefoots (http://www.barefootsound.com/barefoot/index.html) for monitors.

Hell, that's more than half your budget right there.

seisend
Apr 6, 2010, 04:53 AM
I'd choose Apogee Symphony System for your converters.
Apogee is known for their legendary award winning converters. Also seen in most top studios. Apogee Products are greatly integrated into logic, too !

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/symphony-system.php

Euphonix makes really great mix consoles. Also optimized for Logic:

http://www.euphonix.com/pro/post/index.php

Big Boss Man
Apr 6, 2010, 12:45 PM
I would also go with the top of the line Apogee Symphony system and the Euphonix control surface. They offer some of the best integration with Logic Studio. I use an Apogee Duet and Euphonix MC Control myself. If you are working with a 100K budget, go with the Apogee AD-16X and DA-16X converters and Big Ben clock and Symphony cards. The Apogee Symphony system will run 8-16K depending on how many channels you need in and out.

zimv20
Apr 7, 2010, 07:43 AM
i'm not sure how useful it is to shout out names of favorite brands, or kit out a studio by concentrating on conversion.

i'd start by dividing up the budget along these lines:

- 1/5 for console & recording machine
- 1/5 for all other gear, including mics and monitors
- 1/5 for room treatment
- 1/5 for patchbays and cabling
- 1/5 in reserve

i'd take that first 1/5th and spend $10-12k on a recapped, maintained console, like a Neotek. That leaves $8-10k for a computer, DAW, drives, monitor(s), conversion, plugs, backup, and whatever the heck you need to fulfill the "audio-for-picture" capabilities.

iow, there's just not enough budget to get a top-of-the-line mac and oodles of channels of high-quality conversion.

with only $20k for gear, i'd get a single pair of good monitors on good stands, a couple good mics and the rest filler (plus stands), and probably no outboard EQ or compression to start. again, there's just not enough budget here.

and if i successfully ended with the full 1/5th in reserve, i'd spend it on a couple instruments/amps and more room treatment.

zimv20
Apr 7, 2010, 08:10 AM
as a followup...

with no budget for outboard f/x, i'd go with 2 plug-in packages: SoundToys Native bundle and the Lexicon PCM Native bundle. i think those would run in the $1800-2000 range together, coming out of the "console & recording machine" budget.

that leaves even less for a computer and conversion. i'd end up buying used for these.

hakukani
Apr 7, 2010, 03:45 PM
mac pro (tricked out with drives, and RAM from Apple) 9000
logic 600
RME micstacy(2) 10000
mics AKG, Peluso, Neumann 25000 (or more if you want to add, say, some Shoeps)
Pair barefoot micromains 27 w stands 10000
SSL matrix contorl surface 22750

77,350 so far

Cabling, DI's, FX packages, or hardware fx should spend the rest of your budget...:)

Gigazaga
Apr 8, 2010, 06:03 PM
Based on on your objectives where the studio would be used for radio ads and multimedia, I would look at possible two workstations.

And editing workstation with nice big monitors and fast computer doesn't necessarily need tons of inputs. You need workhorse LDCs and SM7 for voiceover and a disk system for organizing projects.

If music production is a sideline, then you still need to use your budget for that setup. The editing room and studio A could be running at the same time. The editing room might be making more money. Both rooms probably need to be able to run radio and multimedia if no bands are booked.

I would make the computers interchangeable so you could recover from any failures or if one was being upgraded.

Anyway that is my main input. Budget for two computers configured as two workstations one for editing and one for music production or editing.

Plumbstone
Apr 11, 2010, 12:05 PM
I know you seem to have made your mind up on logic studio but for radio and multimedia work you are inevitably going to be working with clients and producers who exclusively use protools HD. Not to give yourself this option would be a mistake imo.

Mac pro, digidesign HD system with PT and logic studio are pretty much essential. After all if you go for a Protools based system you can still use Logic if you prefer but have the option too.

Plugins - you will almost certainly need to get some of the waves bundles as they are pretty much industry standard too.

As for console/mics/pres/monitoring the choices are endless and comes down to taste and how much flexibility you need. of course if you are doing multimedia and ads, you probably will have quite fast turnarounds and may just want to mix everything itb so no need for a console.

Working to picture - the easiest option is to simply have a dual monitor setup and convert any movie you're working on to QT and play in a separate window from your DAW. otherwise you need TVs , canopus etc which will add several thousand to your budget...

amk1369
Apr 12, 2010, 12:11 AM
I would highly advise at two-monitor set up. Makes working alot easier when you can separate your session window from your mixer, or your session from your plug-ins etc etc etc...Also important if there's any picture work to be done.

noisegeek
Apr 22, 2010, 02:57 PM
Forget the tascam control, euphonix rule

http://www.euphonix.com/artist/solutions/music.php