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View Full Version : So, why does the 550D shoot 720p @ 60fps and the 5D MkII won't?




seenew
Apr 9, 2010, 04:24 AM
I've read that the reason Canon didn't include 60fps 720p movie mode for the MarkII in their latest firmware is because the 5D2 only has one Digic IV processor, and that kind of video requires dual processors like they put in the 7D. However, the new Rebel T2i (550D) has only a single Digic IV as well, and it can shoot 60fps at 720p. What gives?



Patriks7
Apr 9, 2010, 05:25 AM
I've read that the reason Canon didn't include 60fps 720p movie mode for the MarkII in their latest firmware is because the 5D2 only has one Digic IV processor, and that kind of video requires dual processors like they put in the 7D. However, the new Rebel T2i (550D) has only a single Digic IV as well, and it can shoot 60fps at 720p. What gives?

When the 5D3 comes out, they will need something big for people to make the switch... that would be one of those things...

joelypolly
Apr 9, 2010, 06:20 AM
It could also be a sensor thing, the refresh rate could just be lower on the 5D and its not able to refresh the 60 times required for 60fps. 5D MKII is pretty old compared to the 550D.

OreoCookie
Apr 9, 2010, 07:12 AM
Is that really an issue that this feature is missing or just an outbreak of featuritis?

seenew
Apr 9, 2010, 10:20 AM
When the 5D3 comes out, they will need something big for people to make the switch... that would be one of those things...
If this is the case, then that is a really poor way to treat customers.
It could also be a sensor thing, the refresh rate could just be lower on the 5D and its not able to refresh the 60 times required for 60fps. 5D MKII is pretty old compared to the 550D.
This is something I was thinking, but then why couldn't they just sample from a smaller area at the center of the sensor?
Is that really an issue that this feature is missing or just an outbreak of featuritis?
This is a serious issue, if you do anything with serious video in mind.
It allows for a beautiful aesthetic, barely perceptible slow motion. See this video, filmed on a 7D, probably shot at 50P, reduced to 24P in post.
http://vimeo.com/10712801

Westside guy
Apr 9, 2010, 10:41 AM
It seems to me that Canon has always tried to keep clear - and sometimes artificial - distinctions between their camera price points (for a given sensor size) in terms of feature sets. But in any case I agree with OreoCookie - this is featuritis. Why would anyone be surprised that a newer camera just might be more advanced in some ways than an older camera? Additionally, it would seem someone who's truly into "serious video" would be paying the money to buy the right tool for the job, and that's probably not a still camera that happens to have video capabilities.

OreoCookie
Apr 9, 2010, 11:10 AM
This is a serious issue, if you do anything with serious video in mind.
It allows for a beautiful aesthetic, barely perceptible slow motion. See this video, filmed on a 7D, probably shot at 50P, reduced to 24P in post.
http://vimeo.com/10712801
I don't doubt that there are applications for this type of videography. However, primarily, the 5D and all other dslrs are tools to take photos not videos. I don't doubt that there may be a few people who are disappointed, but for all we know, the limitation may be technical (it could be a sensor limitation: the 5D Mark II uses a different sensor than the 7D and the 550D). I for one would like dslr makers to optimize their gear for taking pictures first and then to film videos.

gdspeed
Apr 9, 2010, 12:04 PM
I don't doubt that there are applications for this type of videography. However, primarily, the 5D and all other dslrs are tools to take photos not videos. I don't doubt that there may be a few people who are disappointed, but for all we know, the limitation may be technical (it could be a sensor limitation: the 5D Mark II uses a different sensor than the 7D and the 550D). I for one would like dslr makers to optimize their gear for taking pictures first and then to film videos.

There definitely are applications for it. Commercial shoots, music videos, stylish feature films, novelty shots in industrial and documentary films, and so on. Slow motion is pretty common, to be honest.

Also, unless RED releases Scarlet soon (and unless it lives up to the hype), expect DSLRs to be the industry standard for low-budget / student filmmaking within a few years. They're revolutionary.

toxic
Apr 9, 2010, 12:35 PM
the 5DII was the first of the serious video SLRs. leaving stuff out is excusable since Canon had little idea how it would do. since then they've released firmware adding a bunch of other frame rates and resolution capablities...so maybe 60 fps is a hardware issue, not software.

HBOC
Apr 9, 2010, 12:47 PM
I've read that the reason Canon didn't include 60fps 720p movie mode for the MarkII in their latest firmware is because the 5D2 only has one Digic IV processor, and that kind of video requires dual processors like they put in the 7D. However, the new Rebel T2i (550D) has only a single Digic IV as well, and it can shoot 60fps at 720p. What gives?

Well you have to realize that the 5D2 is 18 months old, and the 550D is 2 months old. I am sure there is a new 5D3 in the pipes now, and most likely either a 1DSMKIV or 5D3 will be announced in August. They might also be doing it for marketing as well.

VirtualRain
Apr 9, 2010, 02:12 PM
Canon does have an odd product management strategy sometimes.

Most companies would trickle technology down from flagship models to mass-market versions. However, Canon occasionally seems to trickle things up.

I suppose it's probably because competitive pressures force faster product cycles and more frequent updates on mass-market products like the Rebel line vs the pro line up.

The good news is that over the last 12-18 months, Canon's product introductions (T1i then T2i and 7D) have pretty much set the bar for their respective market segments. I'm sure the next 5D will similarly set a new bar for FF.

OreoCookie
Apr 9, 2010, 02:52 PM
There definitely are applications for it. Commercial shoots, music videos, stylish feature films, novelty shots in industrial and documentary films, and so on.
… and I am in agreement.
However, the large majority of users who buy a 5D Mark II are into photos (`stills' if you prefer ;)), so I'm just saying that this is what the 5D Mark II is optimized for. We also shouldn't forget that this camera was the first pro dslr with video, it's not surprising that it is still lacking in some areas compared to newer cameras.

Personally, I'd much rather see Canon and other dslr manufacturers release bodies optimized for video than bolt video functionality on top of a dslr.
Slow motion is pretty common, to be honest.
…*if you're into videos ;)

scaredpoet
Apr 9, 2010, 04:35 PM
I've read that the reason Canon didn't include 60fps 720p movie mode for the MarkII in their latest firmware is because the 5D2 only has one Digic IV processor, and that kind of video requires dual processors like they put in the 7D. However, the new Rebel T2i (550D) has only a single Digic IV as well, and it can shoot 60fps at 720p. What gives?

A couple of possibilities:

1. The DIGIC 4 in the 550D is running at a higher speed than they were previously clocking the processor. This would make some sense, the T2i gets HOT when recording video for a while.

2. Maybe it has something to do with the 5D having a full frame sensor, as opposed to the smaller APS-C sensor on the 550D.

In any case, I gotta admit: when I was in the market to upgrade from my 30D about a year ago to the 50D, I changed my mind after I saw the T1i (500D) and saw that it had the same pixel resolution AND video, and got that instead, using the money I saved on some accessories. To date, they still haven't done anything about the lack of video in the X0D line.


So, there is a little bit of oddity in how Canon rolls out features on their consumer/prosumer/professional lines.

On the other hand, you never know, they might just enable 60fps 720p on the 5D MkII with just a firmware update.

seenew
Apr 9, 2010, 04:46 PM
I think a lot of you are underestimating how DSLRs (or HD-DSLRs to some) have quickly become the tool of choice for almost any video production outside Hollywood and TV stations. As someone mentioned above, they pretty much revolutionized the industry overnight. I'm about to graduate from SCAD in Savannah and I know that the film department here recently bought a couple dozen 7D's and some 5D2's for students to check out. Many of my friends who are film majors shot their senior projects on 5D2's.

And with the way the market is going these days, any professional photographer not wanting to get into video is shooting themselves in the foot. See my interview with Peter Yang (http://seenew.net/2010/03/peter-yang-interview-part-1/), we talked about it there, too.

To date, they still haven't done anything about the lack of video in the X0D line.


I think the 7D killed the XXD line.

TH3D4RKKN1GH7
Apr 9, 2010, 05:02 PM
The 7D being pretty APS-C I thought was silly they have so many APS-C cameras. I remember reading somewhere a Canon rep saying the 60D is coming so there will be ANOTHER APS-C camera. I think they should have made the 7D APS-H, because its really a cheaper 1D. And to my knowledge, Canon is the only folks with an APS-H sensor camera and people seem to dig it so why not make a cheaper edition?

Anyway, 720/60 won't be coming to the 5D, it would have came in the last update that brought 1080/24. Hopefully the 1Ds or 5DMKIII shoot RAW, that would be great.

Abyssgh0st
Apr 9, 2010, 05:50 PM
I think the 7D killed the XXD line.

I beg to differ..

Body only new 50D: $923 from Amazon (cheapest via Google shopping)
Body only new 7D: $1649 from Amazon (cheapest once again via Google shopping due no tax)

That's a difference of almost $700.. that alone can get you two decent EF-S lenses (85mm and 50 /1.4) or a decent L lens (70-200mm /4 Non-IS , 17-40 /4, etc). I love my 50D and personally dislike the ergonomics of the 7D, but I can in no way say that it's a bad camera; specifications wise it's exceptional.

HBOC
Apr 10, 2010, 12:03 AM
the 7D is the successor to the 50D. Everything on the 7D has been improved upon from previous bodies. 50D had 50% more MP than the 40D, shot faster, higher ISO, the 40D had more MP than the 30D, shot faster, better ISO, more features.

The 50D is 2 years old. I think that fierce competition has forced Canon to decrease their usual 18month product life cycles (prosumer-semi pro lines) to about 12 months. The 7D simply has improved upon the xD line. The AF improvement was sorely needed.

I think what they need to do is move the xD line to a 1.3x crop (alongside the 1D), leave the Rebel line at 1.6x, and then you have the 5D/1Ds line at FF.

Don't worry, the 1D have the advantages, such as better AF, larger buffer, dual card types, faster frame rate, etc.

I wouldn't mind a stripped down 5D2 model. Not everyone needs video. If they made a 5D2n, (everything but video) and shaved the price by $500, i'm there.

seenew
Apr 10, 2010, 02:29 AM
I beg to differ..

Body only new 50D: $923 from Amazon (cheapest via Google shopping)
Body only new 7D: $1649 from Amazon (cheapest once again via Google shopping due no tax)

That's a difference of almost $700.. that alone can get you two decent EF-S lenses (85mm and 50 /1.4) or a decent L lens (70-200mm /4 Non-IS , 17-40 /4, etc). I love my 50D and personally dislike the ergonomics of the 7D, but I can in no way say that it's a bad camera; specifications wise it's exceptional.

you might as well be comparing the 5D to the 5D2. The 7D replaced the 50D, they don't stand separately.


I wouldn't mind a stripped down 5D2 model. Not everyone needs video. If they made a 5D2n, (everything but video) and shaved the price by $500, i'm there.

They wouldn't do that. Cutting video from the 5D2 doesn't save them any money, so there wouldn't be any savings to pass down to the consumer.

OreoCookie
Apr 10, 2010, 05:08 AM
The 7D being pretty APS-C I thought was silly they have so many APS-C cameras. I remember reading somewhere a Canon rep saying the 60D is coming so there will be ANOTHER APS-C camera. I think they should have made the 7D APS-H, because its really a cheaper 1D.
I absolutely agree. This was, in fact, the very reason, I was disappointed with the 7D not having an APS-H-sized sensor at least. It's hard to believe Canon hasn't either killed this format or released more models that use this sensor size. I also don't buy the argument that it cannibalizes sales: the D700 is very, very close in terms of specs compared to the D3 and yet, both of them sold just fine. Nikon hasn't chosen to cripple the AF, frame rate (too much, 9 fps vs. 8 fps) either.

wheelhot
Apr 11, 2010, 03:33 AM
I think the 7D killed the XXD line.
I actually thing the 550D killed the XXD line :rolleyes:

I also don't buy the argument that it cannibalizes sales: the D700 is very, very close in terms of specs compared to the D3 and yet, both of them sold just fine. Nikon hasn't chosen to cripple the AF, frame rate (too much, 9 fps vs. 8 fps) either.
As odd as it may sounds, Canon has a weird way of thinking, look at 40D vs 5D, the 40D even have better AF then 5D and even with the 5D Mark II comes around, the 40D still have better AF then a camera that costs more then it.

And look at the 550D specs, I seriously wonder how will they release a 60D with the 550D specs so closely related to the 7D.

funkboy
Apr 16, 2010, 11:24 PM
Here's the info right from the source:

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue1002/tech-tips.html#comment-39395898

The 5DII chipset just won't pump out more than than 30fps. It's that simple.

Canon does a great service to the photographic community in general by allowing Chuck Westfall to have such extensive direct public interaction.

stagi
Apr 16, 2010, 11:45 PM
Awesome thanks for the link!

jbernie
Apr 17, 2010, 11:17 PM
the 5DII was the first of the serious video SLRs. leaving stuff out is excusable since Canon had little idea how it would do. since then they've released firmware adding a bunch of other frame rates and resolution capablities...so maybe 60 fps is a hardware issue, not software.

It is interesting how DSLR video has taken off, I don't think Canon quite realized what they were going to start.

As to the original poster, if you were really buying a camera for video purposes then I would think that you would go looking at true video cameras as opposed to DSLRs that can do video. Buy the right tool for the job, buying something that has a different primary function only leads to compromises. OMG, my Porsche 911 can't carry a queen size bed home from the store.

John.B
Apr 17, 2010, 11:52 PM
Sorry, I missed this last week...

I actually thing the 550D killed the XXD line :rolleyes:
Not if you need a high frame rate it didn't. Or if you don't like the Rebel's quirky (IMO) interface. But, yes, otherwise, most people will probably opt for the 550D.

funkboy
Apr 18, 2010, 09:35 AM
I actually thing the 550D killed the XXD line :rolleyes:
And look at the 550D specs, I seriously wonder how will they release a 60D with the 550D specs so closely related to the 7D.

Maybe. But there's still a $1k and 5fps gap between the 550D & the 7D, currently filled by the aging 50D & Nikon D90.

10 May is the 10th anniversary of in-house Canon DSLRs, & the 10th anniversary of the xxD line. We'll see if that leads to anything.


As odd as it may sounds, Canon has a weird way of thinking, look at 40D vs 5D, the 40D even have better AF then 5D and even with the 5D Mark II comes around, the 40D still have better AF then a camera that costs more then it.

I'm not sure if it was Chuck W. that said it, but I remember reading that the 40D has better AF than the 5D because the 5D's full-frame viewfinder just didn't leave room for the larger AF sensor, & the 40D is considered more of a sportman's camera due to the higher FPS & "longer reach" of APS-C, so it got the spiffy new AF & the 5D didn't.

Personally I find it a shame that the 7D didn't get the 1DIV's sensor, but I guess it would have been too close to the 5DII's price point...