UPS for MacPro? Apple tech suggests not

[appledog]

I have been using an APC Back-UPS 750 with my Mac Pro quad core since I bought it in 1/08. (I called APC to find a model powerful enough before purchasing). Turns out they told me wrong and the 750 is not powerful enough (during times when the electricity is not steady, the Mac Pro and 26" monitor just loses power immediately and the UPS signals)... they are trying to help me locate the correct model, so I called Apple to get power consumption data. I spoke to a senior tech yesterday and he surprised me by saying that they actually recommend just plugging the Mac Pro directly into the wall rather than a UPS unit (second choice being a good surge-protected power strip).

Now instead of ordering a new 1300VA or 1500VA UPS, I'm questioning the whole decision.

Do most people use a UPS unit with the Mac Pro or not? (I'm a graphic designer, just the one monitor and external HD, will add internal HD soon as well.)

[Major Reeves]

Ofc that 750 VA would be anemic.
I would suggest getting at least a 1200 VA's sine wave ups.
Go look for the MGE ellipse premium 1200 or the APC SUA1500.

[gotzero]

I use two APC Smart-UPS SUA-1500s (http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500RM2U&total_watts=50) for my personal Mac Pro (one for the machine only, one for all of the peripherals). This is way overkill for most, but I need that system available at all times. One of them would be more than enough in most cases.

People usually look them up and balk at the price, but if you check around on ebay, you can find corporate pulls for shockingly low prices. I would go for a Smart-UPS series with at least a sine wave approximation if they are in your price range. The SUA ones give you sine wave voltage regulation, a lot of user control, and great peace of mind. I guess the Back-UPS software has improved a lot though, so they would probably be fine.

[Transporteur]

The Back-UPS series is garbage. The SUA ones give you sign wave voltage regulation, a lot of user control, and great peace of mind.

I use a Back-UPS 1500 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/APC-1500VA-Uninterruptible-Power-Supply/dp/B001EORXB0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1271257833&sr=8-1) for my octad Mac Pro including 3 displays (30" and two 20") and I never had a single problem with that device. Interaction with OS X works flawlessly and it gives reasonable time to save all your work and shut down the machine properly.

For my servers I use two older Back-UPS devices and they saved me a lot of trouble. No problems whatsoever.
Not really garbage if you ask me.

[gotzero]

For my servers I use two older Back-UPS devices and they saved me a lot of trouble. No problems whatsoever.
Not really garbage if you ask me.

They must have improved them a lot then. The last time I tried them, the software would not work with a Mac, and once and awhile when I would test it the system would die before the battery kicked in. If it works it works. :)

[bearcatrp]

They must have improved them a lot then. The last time I tried them, the software would not work with a Mac, and once and awhile when I would test it the system would die before the battery kicked in. If it works it works. :)

You don't need the software. I talked to APC about 2 years ago and was told this. Its built in to the OS. As for what size to use, I have the 1300 and the 1500 and both are great units to use. For apple to tell you to NOT use one is irresponsible. Go with the largest you can afford as it will keep you going longer when the power dips.

[appledog]

thanks for the input. THe APS rep was trying to decide if the 1300 would be sufficient for my needs (I found it for $171 w/free 3-day shipping from PC nation)... maybe I should step up to the 1500 to be safe.

I have not used the software in the past.

[fhall1]

Oh....and since no one else said anything....that "Apple Sr. Tech" is an idiot if he recommends against using a (properly sized) UPS and tells you to just plug into the wall.

[iVoid]

Oh....and since no one else said anything....that "Apple Sr. Tech" is an idiot if he recommends against using a (properly sized) UPS and tells you to just plug into the wall.

Agreed.

Basically, every Mac laptop has a UPS built in (the battery), so there's no reason that Mac Pro can't use a UPS of the right size.

[hamlinspahn]

The MacPro has a maximum power usage of 1.44KW so the 1300 and 1500 simply don't provide enough power at maximum load on a MacPro, but saying that I use a 1500 and it works fine. Unless your MacPro is fully loaded and I mean fully loaded you aren't getting anywhere close to 1.44KW.

[gotzero]

The MacPro has a maximum power usage of 1.44KW so the 1300 and 1500 simply don't provide enough power at maximum load on a MacPro, but saying that I use a 1500 and it works fine. Unless your MacPro is fully loaded and I mean fully loaded you aren't getting anywhere close to 1.44KW.

I have six drives (although two are SSDs), two 2600s, and one 4870 and I pull about 275w at idle and about 500 when really working the system.

If you are putting a bunch of panels and peripherals on it you could get up there, but the machine itself would be fine on a 1500VA system. How big of a UPS you need kind of depends on whether you want it to shut down nicely or stay up running...

[gglockner]

A UPS is very important. As others have said, it's redundant for a laptop, but essential for a desktop.

I have a Tripp Lite that I bought at Costco. Works great. I only need it to power the Mac Pro for about 30 seconds until the automatic transfer switch powers up our backup generator. If you don't have a generator, then you should have enough capacity in your UPS to shut down gracefully.

And as others have said, you don't need software to monitor the UPS - OS X includes this capability. Just connect the UPS to the Mac via USB, configure the settings in the Energy Saver pane of System Preferences, and you're good to go.

[wonderspark]

I use an APS 1500 BackUPS on my '09 Mac Pro Quad with four internal HDD RAID, 4870, 22" LCD and 30" ACD, and even with all cores pumping at 100% it has plenty of room to stretch. I'll never use a desktop without a UPS. That Apple tech must have been stoned.

[shinji]

Don't know why Apple said that. That's pretty bad advice.

I'm using an APC UPS.

[diazj3]

On the issue of a UPS not being recommended, I guess that depends on the electric power quality you get and the level of risk you can take. I agree that's bad advice from Apple in general, specially when their warranty or applecare will not cover damages derived from electric power service incidents.

If your computer, the function it performs and the data it holds are too important to risk it with the quality of power you get, then by all means get a UPS. The type of UPS will depend - again, on the power quality - your power requirements and your budget.

First off, decide whether you need a true or a stepped sine wave UPS. SmartUPSs with true sine wave cost about twice as their stepped or simulated sine wave BackUPS counterparts, as they provide better protection and cleaner power to your computer. Also, some Mac Pro users found that stepped sine wave BackUPS couldn't handle the power surge the mac pro uses when starting up or waking from the battery, thus forcing them to switch to the more expensive SmartUPS, or to place a surge protector between the BackUPS and the computer - but this solution was not recommended by APC .

About the capacity or size of the UPS, I personally wouldn't go for anything under 1300 or 1500 VA - depending on the mac pro you have - for two reasons: a) you also need to consider the display plus any other device you'd need in the future... and b) most important, you must have a good extra margin for the intensity of CPU/GPU use you wish to cover plus the natural decline in capacity the battery will show as time goes by.

In my case, I got an APC Smart UPS 1500 for my 2009 2.66 Quad w/4 HD, 7GB RAM and the ATI 4870. It cost around $550 usd - a bit expensive, but it has been worth it: brownouts are common, and the power quality and service is not great here. The computer alone can run from battery for about 25 minutes under moderate use. By also plugging in 2x24" displays, the internet router, a powered USB hub, EyeTV250, desktop speakers, and 2 external hard drives, the whole setting will run off battery for about 3-5 minutes... enough time to give power a chance to come back, or to gracefully shut it down. Perhaps this SmartUPS 1500 was overkill, but as the battery naturally looses capacity with time, I will unplug non-critical devices and still have a nice margin with very low risk of harming my data due to bad power service.

Hope this helped. Cheers!

[appledog]

that is my dilemma now... Back-UPS 1500 or Smart UPS 1500. The APC rep said I need to find out if the Mac Pro power supply is Power Factor Corrected (requiring pure SINE wave) or not... I called another Apple senior tech and he had no idea.

Our power here is not real stable, and of course we get the occasional thunderstorm. I just want to be able to shut down gracefully and not lose power immediately when the power fluctuates, as is happening now with the 750. I really don't have $500 to spend. Hopefully the Back UPS 1500 will be adequate for that.

[jwt]

The 750 ought to work. I have a Cyberpower 685VA supplying power to a Mac Pro with 3 internal HDs, and two monitors (17 and 24 in). It's good for around 13 minutes.

I will add that I started with a higher rated APC (because of the brand), but it failed on the first power outage (back when I was only running the 17 in display. That's how I ended up with the Cyberpower. It's been great.

[diazj3]

that is my dilemma now... Back-UPS 1500 or Smart UPS 1500. The APC rep said I need to find out if the Mac Pro power supply is Power Factor Corrected (requiring pure SINE wave) or not... I called another Apple senior tech and he had no idea.

I went through the same thing, and also made quite an extensive research in different forums. No one seemed to know about the power supply issue, or the reason why some BackUPS were not able to handle the power surge some mac pros draw when waking.

In the end, I decided to get the SmartUPS to be on the safe side... it's around $4k worth of equipment, plus all my data - some of it very valuable to my work - so I figured spending $550 in power protection was more than worth it. IMO it's reasonable to dedicate 10-15% of the whole setup in power protection... but that's me.

Our power here is not real stable, and of course we get the occasional thunderstorm. I just want to be able to shut down gracefully and not lose power immediately when the power fluctuates, as is happening now with the 750. I really don't have $500 to spend. Hopefully the Back UPS 1500 will be adequate for that.

Perhaps, if you can get an exchange from your vendor, you can try the BackUPS 1500 and see if it works well with your machine. If you get the power surge issue (the UPS gets overpowered by the power surge the mac draws when waking from sleep while running on the battery, and shuts down), try using a surge protector strip between the computer and the BackUPS. Ask APC if that'd be OK if the surge protector strip is also from APC. If none of these solutions work, exchange the BackUPS for a SmartUPS and take the plunge.

cheers!

[appledog]

the 750 actually worked fine for the first 1.5 years... gave me a few mins to shut down. Now the Mac and monitor go out instantly at the first fluctuation in power. But the tests run by the APC rep say the battery is fine, just overwhelmed/undersized. She said even an undersized unit will sometimes perform for a year until it gets overwhelmed.

I've heard so many things from Apple and APC that its hard to tell what to believe.

Great input-- thanks.

[nanofrog]

the 750 actually worked fine for the first 1.5 years... gave me a few mins to shut down. Now the Mac and monitor go out instantly at the first fluctuation in power. But the tests run by the APC rep say the battery is fine, just overwhelmed/undersized. She said even an undersized unit will sometimes perform for a year until it gets overwhelmed.

I've heard so many things from Apple and APC that its hard to tell what to believe.

Great input-- thanks.
Batteries "wear", which means lower time even though they're functional = passes the tests.

[wonderspark]

Well, if it helps, I've had my APS 1500 BackUPS in service during several brownouts over the course of an hour, whereby the lights flickered, and other devices like printers, etc. were going through power-down / power-up cycles due to the brownouts, and my Mac Pro, monitors, etc. showed no signs of struggle whatsoever. I had to ask my girlfriend if she noticed the lights going out, since I wasn't sure what I saw while staring into my monitors, and she said yes, the lights were flickering.

One of the brown-outs caused the fan on the UPS to kick on for a few seconds, but still, no issue with the Mac, the external HDDs, or the monitors. I was happy about that.

[ncc1701d]

On advice from nanofrog, I got the Eaton Ellipse MAX 1500. The size was determined by the company rep I spoke to and she said that putting much more than the computer on to it was not really recommended (after I gave her the specks of my '09 Mac Pro). While it probably could the monitor, speakers etc, not much point in surge protection etc for them.

BTW, it works perfectly as advertised with the built in Power Management of the Mac Pro, so I don't know what that techie was talking about. I don't expect to be running the machine for hours on it, just long enough to just down without loosing information or frying anything.

FWIW: http://powerquality.eaton.com/Products-services/Backup-Power-UPS/Ellipse-MAX.aspx?cx=101

[Tom Sawyer]

On advice from nanofrog, I got the Eaton Ellipse MAX 1500. The size was determined by the company rep I spoke to and she said that putting much more than the computer on to it was not really recommended (after I gave her the specks of my '09 Mac Pro). While it probably could the monitor, speakers etc, not much point in surge protection etc for them.

BTW, it works perfectly as advertised with the built in Power Management of the Mac Pro, so I don't know what that techie was talking about. I don't expect to be running the machine for hours on it, just long enough to just down without loosing information or frying anything.

FWIW: http://powerquality.eaton.com/Products-services/Backup-Power-UPS/Ellipse-MAX.aspx?cx=101

That is a very nice UPS... I have used Powerware units for many years (Powerware was bought by Eaton) and one of the things that is so strong about them is that they are "on line" UPS units which means that the inversion circuitry is always active and providing the power so there is no switching latency. This also ensures the power is always 100% clean and of course true sine wave. This is why there is such a big price differential between units like these, APC Smart UPS (true sine) and the stuff you see at Best Buy and Sams. If you unplug your UPS and let your computer/monitor run on the UPS for a bit, just listen to the sound coming out of the PSU on the computer and other items such as screen... if you have a true sine wave UPS you'll not hear a peep but if not you'll get a buzz at the least all the way up to a pretty scary howling noise.

FWIW, I have two Powerware Precision series UPS's at the office that, no kidding are from 1997 and they still function perfectly. They have gone through a couple sets of batteries, but they are built like tanks and then some. Just opening them up is awe inspiring... HUGE coils, caps etc. I would suspect the Eaton gear is of the same caliber.

[RebootD]

Maybe I will be snickered at for not buying top of the line but I got a Cyberpower 1500 that works via USB with my Mac Pro 09. http://www.amazon.com/Cyberpower-CP1500AVRLCD-UPS-Display-8-Outlet/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1271517954&sr=8-1

I have my MP, Nec 26in and external backup plugged into it and it barely draws 1/3 of the power most of the time.

[nanofrog]

Maybe I will be snickered at for not buying top of the line but I got a Cyberpower 1500 that works via USB with my Mac Pro 09. http://www.amazon.com/Cyberpower-CP1500AVRLCD-UPS-Display-8-Outlet/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1271517954&sr=8-1

I have my MP, Nec 26in and external backup plugged into it and it barely draws 1/3 of the power most of the time.
Due to cost reasons, these are more common than the models the generate true sine wave outputs.

But some equipment doesn't like the stepped sine wave output, and you get a noise (power's out and the equipment is running off of the batteries) that will scare the crap out of you. :eek: And it can damage the equipment. :(

The true online units such as the APC Smart UPS won't do this (in such an event). But you also pay for it. But when you look at the cost of the equipment (workstations and server class systems, which the MP is) and the service life of a true online unit, it's worth having if at all possible. But you won't usually be able to find them locally, and certainly not WalMart, Sam's,... locations. (There will be battery changes over the years, but they're not actually all that bad, especially when compared to the cost of the unit; say ~1/6th unit MSRP or so).

[Earl Urly]

If that was a senior tech at a retail store it's possible he's never had to support Macs running in a high availability enviroment, if he was a senior tech at Applecare he should have passed you on to one of the guys who do enterprise support. If it was the former you should complain to the store manager about getting ****** advice (of course don't tell him an internet forum told you so) if it was the latter you probably got a tech who doesn't know **** about running Macs with UPS units

[Phantom Gremlin]

Our power here is not real stable

Welcome to the USA in the 21st century. I wonder where in the country power is stable, certainly not where I live. My APC is reporting that 45 "events" have occured since I plugged it in (perhaps 1 or 2 years).

[hugodrax]

Maybe I will be snickered at for not buying top of the line but I got a Cyberpower 1500 that works via USB with my Mac Pro 09. http://www.amazon.com/Cyberpower-CP1500AVRLCD-UPS-Display-8-Outlet/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1271517954&sr=8-1

I have my MP, Nec 26in and external backup plugged into it and it barely draws 1/3 of the power most of the time.

I hope you wont find your home on fire. Those cheap ones I have seen actually spark and burn out at a friends home after 2 years of owning it. The boards are cheaply built.

Not worth going cheap on something this critical.

[lemonade-maker]

I hope you wont find your home on fire. Those cheap ones I have seen actually spark and burn out at a friends home after 2 years of owning it. The boards are cheaply built.

Not worth going cheap on something this critical.

I'd love some evidence. If this actually occured, it would make the news at least. Any product that has proven to burn down a home would be subject to a recall. What is the difference between a "cheaply built" board and one that is expensively built? Sounds like you are doing some serious fear mongering.

[KeriJane]

Hello.

Another vote for the SUA1500 here.

I did my research in 2008 just after buying my MP1.1. It seems that waking up a MP1.1 from sleep will overload just about anything other than an SUA1400 or SUA1500 including most of the Back-UPS series.

So I settled upon a used SUA1500 vintage 2004. It's been flawless, though the original batteries died last month.

My advice is to stick with the SUA series. The construction and particularly the cooling is better. Sine Wave output is friendlier to the expensive Power Supplies in your Mac Pro, Monitor and anything else plugged in.

Have you ever disassembled and inspected a UPS? I have. The Cyber Power 825? 850? I looked at is a piece of junk. Over-rated, tiny 12v battery, relatively thin, badly routed wiring, no cooling fan, hardly any slots for cooling air, that thing looks to be a bigger Fire Hazard than anything else.
In comparison, the SUA1500 has very heavy construction, 24v battery pack (twice voltage=1/2 amperage) and very good fan-assisted cooling.

Even being generous and calling that CyberPower 825 a "750VA" for being supposedly half a 1500VA rating, the battery is a tiny 9AH, 1/4 the size of the SUA1500s total of 36AH.

You may think: Well, it'll just run a shorter length of time before the battery runs out. Yes, but with much higher internal temperatures cause by shoddy, undersized components and wiring combined with poor cooling, the risk of unstable power, possible damage and even fire is just silly to take.

You bought a Mac Pro. This is one of the best (and power-hungry) Desktop computers ever made. Don't get all cheap on the UPS.
Better to just plug it into the wall than into a time bomb.

Have Fun,
Keri

PS.... Looking for some evidence of shoddy construction? This one is WAY better built than that Cyber Power thing I looked at:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=159

PPS. There's all kinds of unsafe junk out there that burns down houses without making the news. Bestec Power Supplies found in eMachines and HP computers set many motherboards, keyboards and mice alight when their 5v standby power goes to 12, 16, maybe 20 or 30v... I haven't heard of any recall.... Any what about Diablotech, POWMAX and ULTRA PSUs? A lot of those went boom with sparks and flame too..... Where's the recalls?

[lemonade-maker]

PPS. There's all kinds of unsafe junk out there that burns down houses without making the news. Bestec Power Supplies found in eMachines and HP computers set many motherboards, keyboards and mice alight when their 5v standby power goes to 12, 16, maybe 20 or 30v... I haven't heard of any recall.... Any what about Diablotech, POWMAX and ULTRA PSUs? A lot of those went boom with sparks and flame too..... Where's the recalls?

Link? That's all slanderous anecdotal junk without something to back the claims.

[RebootD]

I hope you wont find your home on fire. Those cheap ones I have seen actually spark and burn out at a friends home after 2 years of owning it. The boards are cheaply built.

Not worth going cheap on something this critical.

I'd love some evidence. If this actually occured, it would make the news at least. Any product that has proven to burn down a home would be subject to a recall. What is the difference between a "cheaply built" board and one that is expensively built? Sounds like you are doing some serious fear mongering.

Wow yeah I just posted what I bought and have had 0 problems with.. wasn't looking to illicit conspiracy theorists to come out of the shadows and fling nonsense about house fires (with no evidence). Thanks though.

[thepawn]

My CyperPower unit has been fine. I actually own a few and have had them and a mix of APCs for years with no issues other then bad batteries.

As far as what "size", the math is pretty easy -

Apple specs list a max 12A draw on 120V for the power (or 6A on 220V), making the "high end" assumption that Apple has an efficient power supply, we'll make the powerfactor 90%. ("average" assumption is 60%)

VA = AMPS * (VOLTS/PF)
1296VA = 12A * (120V/.90)

A 1500VA rated battery will cover if you've FULLY maxed out your Mac's power usage, which means all drives, big video cards, fans are up because of heat, you're crunching numbers, etc...if you're not full and don't have a few big-wig video cards, you can get away with a 1200VA unit.

--Daniel

[Luba]

Didn't know there was another consideration (true sine versus stepped). The Apple employee/rep at Best Buy recommended their Geek Squad 1500VA, forget what I paid, but it wasn't $500, so probably a stepped sine?

Hmmm, what do I do now? Keep it for 2-3 years when the battery starts to degrade, then get a 1500 that's true sine? I know it's a risk/reward thing ... stepped sine can cause damage, but what's the risk (percentage)?

The only time I hear the UPS come on (for a second) is when the air conditioner cycles, and when the UPS does come on my Mac Pro doesn't make any noise, it just operates as normal.

Due to cost reasons, these are more common than the models the generate true sine wave outputs.

But some equipment doesn't like the stepped sine wave output, and you get a noise (power's out and the equipment is running off of the batteries) that will scare the crap out of you. :eek: And it can damage the equipment. :(

The true online units such as the APC Smart UPS won't do this (in such an event). But you also pay for it. But when you look at the cost of the equipment (workstations and server class systems, which the MP is) and the service life of a true online unit, it's worth having if at all possible. But you won't usually be able to find them locally, and certainly not WalMart, Sam's,... locations. (There will be battery changes over the years, but they're not actually all that bad, especially when compared to the cost of the unit; say ~1/6th unit MSRP or so).

[fhall1]

Haha....what would you expect the BestBuy "expert" to recommend? Anyway, now that you have it, I'd keep it and get an electrician in to run another circuit for either your AC or your computer. Having the UPS kick in every time your AC compressor comes on means your living way too close to the edge on that circuit.

[nanofrog]

Didn't know there was another consideration (true sine versus stepped). The Apple employee/rep at Best Buy recommended their Geek Squad 1500VA, forget what I paid, but it wasn't $500, so probably a stepped sine?

Hmmm, what do I do now? Keep it for 2-3 years when the battery starts to degrade, then get a 1500 that's true sine? I know it's a risk/reward thing ... stepped sine can cause damage, but what's the risk (percentage)?

The only time I hear the UPS come on (for a second) is when the air conditioner cycles, and when the UPS does come on my Mac Pro doesn't make any noise, it just operates as normal.
It seems to be working for you, so keep it, and you can upgrade later, when it dies (batteries). And you could possibly re-task it as well.

As per the AC compressor triggering the UPS, fhall1 is right. Get a reputable electrician out there, and get it taken care of.

[hoosker]

Read this thread with interest as I will be in the market for a new UPS when ever the new MPs are out (soon I hope). I have a G5 on a APC XS 1000 for the last 6+ years. Has never let me down. It has protection for a phone line but not an Ethernet cord. What do you think about the issue of protecting your network with the UPS via Ethernet and phone (in the case of DSL). I had an old Power Mac get it's logic board fired from a lighting spike thru the phone line/modem port that was not protected --so I am a little bit paranoid.

[nanofrog]

Read this thread with interest as I will be in the market for a new UPS when ever the new MPs are out (soon I hope). I have a G5 on a APC XS 1000 for the last 6+ years. Has never let me down. It has protection for a phone line but not an Ethernet cord. What do you think about the issue of protecting your network with the UPS via Ethernet and phone (in the case of DSL). I had an old Power Mac get it's logic board fired from a lighting spike thru the phone line/modem port that was not protected --so I am a little bit paranoid.
I've seen network lines get hit with lighning as well (took out the switch nework and every single system's NIC chip that was attached to it). :eek: All the system boards were replaced under warranty, but not the switch cabinet (no warranty remaining).

So it's a good idea to have the phone line (i.e. DSL service) and Ethernet protected as well IMO.

[thepawn]

I've seen network lines get hit with lighning as well (took out the switch nework and every single system's NIC chip that was attached to it). :eek: All the system boards were replaced under warranty, but not the switch cabinet (no warranty remaining).

So it's a good idea to have the phone line (i.e. DSL service) and Ethernet protected as well IMO.

+1, I've actually had this occur to me.

[Transporteur]

So it's a good idea to have the phone line (i.e. DSL service) and Ethernet protected as well IMO.

I always thought about this, but how and where do I protect my hardware from such an incident?
It happened to me once and luckily only my router was hit, so the issue is definitely present.
Would be best to place some kind of surge protection directly between the phone socket and the following hardware, wouldn't it?
Any suggestions on how to do that?

[thepawn]

I always thought about this, but how and where do I protect my hardware from such an incident?
It happened to me once and luckily only my router was hit, so the issue is definitely present.
Would be best to place some kind of surge protection directly between the phone socket and the following hardware, wouldn't it?
Any suggestions on how to do that?

my UPS includes surge line filtering for ethernet and phone. Many surge strips also have this now.

[nanofrog]

Would be best to place some kind of surge protection directly between the phone socket and the following hardware, wouldn't it?
Any suggestions on how to do that?
Yes, between the phone input (wall) and the DSL modem/router. Most are AIO (power + tel/DSL + Ethernet) surge suppressors or UPS's, but you might be able to still find some separate units.

[J&JPolangin]

...any of these models do worldwide voltage for those of us overseas?

[vetman35]

@Transporteur

To isolate your incoming Ethernet (after cable/dsl modem) from surges you can get a pair of fiber transceivers and a short optical cable. You may lose a transceiver and modem during a strike, but not your computer.

http://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-100Base-TX-100Base-FX-Converter-TFC-110MSC/dp/B00007IFE8/ref=pd_cp_e_1

[nanofrog]

...any of these models do worldwide voltage for those of us overseas?
Yes, but not necessarily all (failure to meet regulatory requirements and custom solutions built into a building are exceptions, assuming the voltage isn't out of spec).

They either have a manual or auto switching capability on the input voltage (wall receptacle). The different country units may only differ by the documentation included and the correct power cable (each country/region may get their own SKU's though, due to the documentation and/or power cord). It's cheaper to make them this way (unit is the same).

[Sun Baked]

UPS, get one ...

DO NOT BUY a CHEAP BATTERY BACKUP ONLY DEVICE HOWEVER.

A pure battery backup device is a narrowly targeted device good generally for ON/OFF power situations.

Check back in forums and you'll probably find people saying their machine still shuts off, due to the Back UP not doing diddly for brownouts and low power situations.

Generally you'll see the battery backup device without the AVR, line conditioning (brownout/overvoltage/pure sine/stepped sine) wording and costing $80 when the same size AVR UPS costs a bit more for the same size.

---

For the Mac Pro, step up to the more expensive APS line conditioning style UPS with AVR -- this will provide the brownout protection and cover the other stuff you really are thinking of when you buy a UPS.

Stepped sine versus Pure sine at APS, get the cheaper stepped sine people haven't had a problem with it and the high end Smart UPS with Pure sine output can be twice the entry level AVR UPS.

[nanofrog]

UPS, get one ...

DO NOT BUY a CHEAP BATTERY BACKUP ONLY DEVICE HOWEVER.

A pure battery backup device is a narrowly targeted device good generally for ON/OFF power situations.

Check back in forums and you'll probably find people saying their machine still shuts off, due to the Back UP not doing diddly for brownouts and low power situations.

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For the Mac Pro, step up to the more expensive APS line conditioning style UPS with AVR -- this will provide the brownout protection and cover the other stuff you really are thinking of when you buy a UPS.

Stepped sine versus Pure sine at APS, get the cheaper stepped sine people haven't had a problem with it and the high end Smart UPS can be twice the entry level AVR UPS.
Theres two different types of stepped sine wave output units, and the BackUPS is the "middle" unit (as an auto transformer) that switches coils under brown-out conditions.

The next step up is a true sine wave, and usually runs off of the batteries 100% of the time (i.e. SUA1500).

It's the absolute bottom end that you want to avoid, as you mention. But a buyer has to pay close attention to the details.

[Sun Baked]

Theres two different types of stepped sine wave output units, and the BackUPS is the "middle" unit (as an auto transformer) that switches coils under brown-out conditions.

The next step up is a true sine wave, and usually runs off of the batteries 100% of the time (i.e. SUA1500).

It's the absolute bottom end that you want to avoid, as you mention. But a buyer has to pay close attention to the details.

I have one of the old APC SU1400NETs from when it first came out as the upgrade to the 1100, bout a decade old now for an initial sticker shock of $800 in 1999.

(Real PIA to find one local back then, but thank the fry's electronic gods for having em in stock for much less than CompUSA.)

But you can get them reconditioned with new batteries for chump change, compared to the cost of new batteries.

Replaced my batteries a year ago, and still see no need to trade the big beast in.

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So while the high end beasts may give you fright, they might be had reconditioned for about the price of the mid range UPS.

Batteries for the 1400/1500 are about 100-150 and the reconditioned unit with new batteries is $180 with 1 year warranty and the APC/IBM SUA1500 is about $250 reconditioned (IBM shipped a facelifted version.)

[nanofrog]

...old APC SU1400NETs...
Good point on the reconditioned models as a means of saving costs. The latest one I have was bought that way.

The APC SUAxxxx are built like tanks. They can and do go, but it usually takes awhile (i.e. bad/leaking electrolytic caps after ~10yrs) and/or a massive hit (for some reason, I seem to always find myself in lightning prone areas).

They're repairable though, and there's 3rd party batteries available as well. :)

[alphaod]

My shoddy UPS died, so I'm looking to another one.

I run my Mac Pro as a server, but the power does go out. Usually when it does, it is for no more than 10 minutes or so.

The point is I want a UPS that sleeps the Mac, while keeping my cable modem and router alive; then when the power resumes, it wakes the Mac Pro.

Basically when I take extended leave (3 months time) from my Mac Pro, I need 100% uptime as there is no way I can go and boot it up on-site. For good reason, everything will be unplugged and my power hungry GPU will be stripped out for a lesser model along with all unnecessary expansion cards removed.

Will the APC SUA1500 provide me this functionality? Will this one be enough: http://tinyurl.com/2f29vjz ?

Most likely I'll have a Drobo connected as well, but I when the Mac Pro sleeps that will probably sleep too.

[nanofrog]

My shoddy UPS died, so I'm looking to another one.

I run my Mac Pro as a server, but the power does go out. Usually when it does, it is for no more than 10 minutes or so.

The point is I want a UPS that sleeps the Mac, while keeping my cable modem and router alive; then when the power resumes, it wakes the Mac Pro.

Basically when I take extended leave (3 months time) from my Mac Pro, I need 100% uptime as there is no way I can go and boot it up on-site. For good reason, everything will be unplugged and my power hungry GPU will be stripped out for a lesser model along with all unnecessary expansion cards removed.

Will the APC SUA1500 provide me this functionality? Will this one be enough: http://tinyurl.com/2f29vjz ?

Most likely I'll have a Drobo connected as well, but I when the Mac Pro sleeps that will probably sleep too.
You can usually set the power management features in the OS (set the sleep and shut down time), but it won't resume from sleep once the power is back on (I don't recall the ability to do this in any OS). Either it loses power (battery is exhausted before power is restored = shutdown if you set it, or a backup generator kicks in, if it's installed). But you will have to return the system to operational manually. Just set the sleep and shutdown times later than the typical power outage, and within the battery limits according to the load (no LED display on this model, so if you've a Kill-A-Watt, this would be handy to asses the load, and calculate the approx. run time).

As per the SUA1500, it will be fine. The MP won't run 980W, so you'll have more run time (I'd figure ~ 25min or so on new batteries, assuming the draw is 450W or so). So long as the battery isn't exhausted prior to power restoration, your cable modem and router will remain powered. Just leave off anything else to give you as much time as possible (system, monitor, modem, router, and Drobo).

Hope this helps. :)

[Sun Baked]

Will the APC SUA1500 provide me this functionality? Will this one be enough: http://tinyurl.com/2f29vjz ?

There are a few APC reconditioning outfits, just look for a used one, you should see that same UPS show for around 250 as

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-1500tlv-p-28.html <-- with an IBM logo

or

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-sua1500-p-38.html <-- regular APC logo

Edit: have never used these guys, so no nuttin bout em. There are a few others I saw when looking for my battery pack. Look through the posts above and PM the person saying they've bought reconditioned to see where they got em.

[ThisAintJoe]

There are a few APC reconditioning outfits, just look for a used one, you should see that same UPS show for around 250 as

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-1500tlv-p-28.html <-- with an IBM logo

or

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-sua1500-p-38.html <-- regular APC logo

Edit: have never used these guys, so no nuttin bout em. There are a few others I saw when looking for my battery pack. Look through the posts above and PM the person saying they've bought reconditioned to see where they got em.


The 1500's are definitely the way to go. We have several of the refurbished ones in our office and they work great. My boss was giving us a hard time and wanted a new unit, we bought him the new SMT1500. Within 2 days he wanted the old 1500 back because of the fan noise. The new version of the 1500 has a 2 speed fan that cycles every 5 seconds. Perfect for a noisy data center but horrible in an office under a desk!

[nanofrog]

The 1500's are definitely the way to go. We have several of the refurbished ones in our office and they work great. My boss was giving us a hard time and wanted a new unit, we bought him the new SMT1500. Within 2 days he wanted the old 1500 back because of the fan noise. The new version of the 1500 has a 2 speed fan that cycles every 5 seconds. Perfect for a noisy data center but horrible in an office under a desk!
The specs list 45 dbA for noise @ 1.0m, which is rather loud for a non-rackmount version. :eek: :(