Why not a widescreen 12" Powerbook?

[ThomasHobbes]

Considering that both the 15" and 17" Powerbooks have widescreens it seems like an smart move (especially since the 12" P'Books no longer share the iBook's screen) to shift the 12" P'Book to a widescreen model to better differente itself from the iBooks.

When next upgrade rolls around (either Nov., or Jan. seems to be the consensus) the 12" becomes (say) a 13.3" widescreen model - with a better GPU one can hope - and then you have a really obvious difference from the iBook line instead of little ones. Also it might have a bit more internal space to play around with which could only be a good thing.

To sum up:
Upsides: Widescreen, more diffrentation(sp?) from iBooks, more internal space.

Downsides: Little bigger, little heavier.

So... Good idea, bad idea?
Comments please.

[NCTRNL]

It all depends on what screens are available. If that size screen isn't available from a vendor, they can't very well make the product.

[ThomasHobbes]

SONY VGN-S150 VAIO® S Series Notebook Computer
A notebook computer with an Intel Pentium M Processor 725 (1.6A GHz) / Built-in 802.11g Wireless Adapter / 13.3 inch Widescreen LCD

[NCTRNL]

SONY VGN-S150 VAIO® S Series Notebook Computer
A notebook computer with an Intel Pentium M Processor 725 (1.6A GHz) / Built-in 802.11g Wireless Adapter / 13.3 inch Widescreen LCD

Yeah, that's a 13.3 inch widescreen. I guess if they release a 13" PB, then that's the screen it could use...but it's not a 12"

[ThomasHobbes]

True, but it would certainly look different from an iBook, and better match with the rest of the Powerbook line. Maybe with the extra space Firewire 800, and a good GPU could be added making it have more similar features with the larger Powerbooks.

Anyway, there would still be 12" iBooks.

Edited to add:
Here we go, a 12 inch widescreen:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/8/prweb152565.htm

[NCTRNL]

True, but it would certainly look different from an iBook, and better match with the rest of the Powerbook line. Maybe with the extra space Firewire 800, and a good GPU could be added making it have more similar features with the larger Powerbooks.

Anyway, there would still be 12" iBooks.

Oh, I think it would be really sweet. They might require a higher resolution screen too because Apple laptops tend to have the best screens available. Maybe they're limited by the technology...

[morkintosh]

To sum up:
Upsides: Widescreen, more diffrentation(sp?) from iBooks, more internal space.

Downsides: Little bigger, little heavier.

So... Good idea, bad idea?
Comments please.

The 12" is market as ultra portable, making it a little bigger would make it less portable. I use a 12" pb because I want a tiny little laptop to use in meetings, on the road etc. Moving the smallest in the line closer to the middle would alienate pb customers that really need the light small box.

[AmigoMac]

I have said it before... the PBook line will go widescreen, I don't have a strong background for it but once, last year, I posted about the all-in-one screen iMac :cool: ... no reason for a non-widescreen PB... surprise us steve, you know how to beat other 13" laptops..

[cluthz]

If the 12-inch powerbook got widescreen, you have to scroll yourself to death!
I can't imagine less height on the already tiny screen.. If apple ships widescreen 12" they have to find a smart scrolling device, or ship the pbooks with preinstalled sidetrak..

[Fukui]

If the 12-inch powerbook got widescreen, you have to scroll yourself to death!
I can't imagine less height on the already tiny screen.. If apple ships widescreen 12" they have to find a smart scrolling device, or ship the pbooks with preinstalled sidetrak..
If they would just snip the margins on the left and right side of the screen (metal part) they could widen (13 inch) the screen and keep the same size. It could even be slightly shorter if they made the margin the same all-round. I would definitely get one if they did it.

[homerjward]

i think they should use the screen from this notebook (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=qVv6Rdby8T_6GJe9-7_wTpn-X-uFX2sPtQQ=?CategoryName=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_TRSeries&Dept=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers). it's 1280x768 so it's an improvement in res, plus it would make it a whole lot smaller. sony can fit a dvd burner and a 40gb hard drive in there, and with the new 60gb 1.8's from toshiba apple could have a 60gb hard drive, a dvd burner and all the features of a 12" pb in a 3.5lb enclosure (assuming it'll be a little heavier than sony's)

[Barham]

I think that if the 12" went 13.3"wide, that the design team might be able to thin it down a bit, thus sacrificing in footprint but making up in thickness. A better GPU WILL come along, but right now the 12" is the hotness and apple needs the specs to be lower than the 15's and 17's.

The big plus of going wide with the 12" is the huge amount of "cool" factor it would get.

The biggest problem is that the screen height is already at the limit for me (I have one). I guess if you hid the dock all of the time, you'd have about the same amount of room that I have now. What would really solve it is if the top bar (Apple/Finder/File/Edit...etc) would dissappear like the dock. Then, you'd have as much or more viewing space than the current 12"

-Hasta

[ravenvii]

A 13" widescreen actually makes more sense for the lineup - a neat 13, 15, 17 lineup. No gaps.

[KevRC4130]

I'd have to shoot myself in the 12" Powerbook owning head if they came out with a widescreen 12" or 13"....that'd be sweet.

[Abstract]

SONY VGN-S150 VAIO® S Series Notebook Computer
A notebook computer with an Intel Pentium M Processor 725 (1.6A GHz) / Built-in 802.11g Wireless Adapter / 13.3 inch Widescreen LCD

Yep, I've always wanted a 12" widescreen. It would be perfect for me. I've been jealous of the above Sony for a month now, and it would really be sweet if they got something like that into a 12" PB.

But like Barham said, they can't make a 12" widescreen without making the height of the screen a bit less, and its already at the brink for me. Vertical space isn't so important, but if they made it shorter, that would be getting out of hand. The only consolation would be to up the resolution to make the desktop bigger. ;)

[wPod]

that would rock, except then i would want to trade in my rev A 12" PB for one. so i think they should not come out with one!

[TDM21]

Yep, I've always wanted a 12" widescreen. It would be perfect for me. I've been jealous of the above Sony for a month now, and it would really be sweet if they got something like that into a 12" PB.

But like Barham said, they can't make a 12" widescreen without making the height of the screen a bit less, and its already at the brink for me. Vertical space isn't so important, but if they made it shorter, that would be getting out of hand. The only consolation would be to up the resolution to make the desktop bigger. ;)

If they did increase the screen resolution, think about the eye strain. It is already hard enough to read some text on the 12"PB. At a resolution of something like 1280x768, it would be close to impossible to read a document or webpage unless you increase the font size which would almost defeat the reason of getting the higher resolution.

But this is just my 2 cents

[kilpajr]

Yep, I've always wanted a 12" widescreen. It would be perfect for me. I've been jealous of the above Sony for a month now, and it would really be sweet if they got something like that into a 12" PB.

But like Barham said, they can't make a 12" widescreen without making the height of the screen a bit less, and its already at the brink for me. Vertical space isn't so important, but if they made it shorter, that would be getting out of hand. The only consolation would be to up the resolution to make the desktop bigger. ;)

I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean that having a smaller height screen with the same or higher resolution would make things smaller, you are right. However, you could always increase the size of icons, fonts, etc. to make up for this. If you mean that it would have less resolution, it wouldn't. One of the 12" widescreens has a 1280x768 resolution. I'm not sure what other resolutions are available.

I think they should move to the 13" widescreen. But, would apple want to put a display in one of their laptops that had a different horizontal to vertical ratio (the 13" widescreen has 1280x800 resolution)?

[areyouwishing]

The day apple releases an ultra-portable widescreen is the day i sell my 12 and get one, whether i need it or not.

[OziMac]

I agree with the poster above who made the comment about the portability of the 12".

Why would you want a widescreen that small?

The 12" screens are great portable workhorses. There's no point screwing with a good thing. You want widescreen so you can see more on your desktop? Buy a 15" or 17". :)

[Nermal]

more diffrentation(sp?)

Edit -> Spelling -> Check Spelling as You Type :)

I agree that the PowerBook should be all-widescreen. I've decided that my next Mac will be a PowerBook, and that it will be widescreen. Therefore I'm currently stuck with the 15", which is a tad too expensive for me. Having said that, the video chipset is also very important for me. The latest issue of Computer Gaming World has a comparison between the Radeon 9700 and 9800 - apparently Doom 3 is almost unplayable on the 9700 yet runs very well on the 9800.

Edit: Attached CGW review.

[Abstract]

I agree with the poster above who made the comment about the portability of the 12".

Why would you want a widescreen that small?

The 12" screens are great portable workhorses. There's no point screwing with a good thing. You want widescreen so you can see more on your desktop? Buy a 15" or 17". :)

I want a widescreen 12" because it would be great for me to be able to read 2 .pdfs side by side, or type a Word doc with a .pdf open beside it. You don't realize how often I have to do this. Lots of scientific papers are in .pdf format, or even on the net, and its great to be able to see 2 things on the screen at once. I'd be willing to give up some vertical screen space for a bit more horizontal space. The resolution would have to be different, as the horizontal:vertical ratio will be different on a widescreen, of course, but it would be great if they could do it.

The only reason I'd consider a 15" is for this reason, but if I don't have to give up a 12", that would be great. Actually, I was thinking about selling my 12" to get a 15" because it may allow me to see things in widescreen. Exposé is great, but I don't like using it every 20 seconds or so.

And if they replaced the 12" with a 13", its not too much bigger, and maybe Apple could offer a 10" ultraportable like Sony does. Its what many people want instead of the 12" anyway, so may as well offer it.

[JFreak]

mini-widescreen-poewrbook would be nice. BUT... what kind of resolution would that screen have? it MUST have at least 768 vertical pixels to be able to run iMovie, and it should also have less than 854 vertical pixels to keep it smaller than the 15" model.

so...

if the resolution would be something by 768, then there would be the aspect ratio and DPI-resolution to think about. if it would be 1280x768, it would be the widest of the three powerbooks, which i think cannot happen as the 17" model is touted as the widest of the wide, and, because apple usually aims to the same DPI in its systems, so there's no way they would shrink the same horizontal pixels that 15" model has into a smaller display; therefore if the mini-widescreen-powerbook would have 768 vertical pixels, the horizontal pixel count would be something between 1024 and 1280, which would make 1152x768 resolution a good guess. any lcd manufacturer making such a display?

to make 1280x768 happen in a 12"(ish) powerbook would effectively mean that the displays of its big brothers would also HAVE TO be updated as well. apple likes consistency...

[Nermal]

The 13.3" LCD that Sony's using is 1280x800, which is a 16:10 aspect - the same as the 17" PowerBook.

[JFreak]

The 13.3" LCD that Sony's using is 1280x800, which is a 16:10 aspect - the same as the 17" PowerBook.

yes, and given that the 1280 horizontal pixels is the same as 15" powerbook, that screen has different DPI than the rest of apple systems, therefore making ui elements smaller. i think that is not acceptable, and currently there is no way to scale the elements.

[Nermal]

I couldn't find any specs on dpi on Apple's site, so I calculated them myself (probably incorrectly :rolleyes: ):

12.1" = 106
13.3" = 113
15.2" = 101
17" = 100

[JFreak]

yep, apple aims at about 100dpi so this proposed +110dpi would cause significantly different "look and feel" to the laptop; therefore i don't buy the idea.

[Coolvirus007]

The whole point of a 12" is so thats is very small. The 15" and 17" are almost desktop replacements. I thinks thats the concept that apple is aiming for therefore the 12" wont be wide screen.

[jefhatfield]

Yeah, that's a 13.3 inch widescreen. I guess if they release a 13" PB, then that's the screen it could use...but it's not a 12"

lying down on the couch right now with a standard 12 inch screen, i notice my eyes can easily see the right and left borders but i still move my head up and down a little to see everything

i would like to see a slightly wider view for optimal viewing in the 12 inch context

[JFreak]

anybody want to calculate the dpi for a 12"(ish) display that would have a 1152x768 resolution? or, how big/small would the screen have to be if the dpi would be 100(ish).

i guess that would currently be the only viable resolution for a mini-widescreen, because it cannot be as big as the 15" model and the screen has to be at least 1024x768 (or otherwise iMovie will not run).

[Barham]

1152x768 has actually been on a Powerbook before. The Rev A TiBook is that resolution. I have one right here. I imagine that it's a bit lower dpi on the old 15"ti, but on a 13" it would be about right.

I think if we ever see a wide ultraportable 13", it'll be a major overhaul for all three powerbooks. I'm thinking G5 powerbook, which means a LONG time still.

-Hasta

[acceber]

I cannot wait till the day I can buy 15" Powerbook for the weight of a 12" or less. Even though there is only like a 500 g difference, or whatever. To me, the 15" is the perfect size for everything. It's just kinda heavy and not as portable as the 12" version.

[JFreak]

1152x768 has actually been on a Powerbook before.

well, then, we have a winner :) if the mini-powerbook gets widescreen in the near future, that will likely be the resolution.

[rinseout]

yes, and given that the 1280 horizontal pixels is the same as 15" powerbook, that screen has different DPI than the rest of apple systems, therefore making ui elements smaller. i think that is not acceptable, and currently there is no way to scale the elements.
I know you said currently, but it's worth pointing out explicitly that Apple is working on letting the user specify the DPI at which the UI/desktop is drawn. So in some sense the user will be able to trade between seeing detail or having real estate.
It doesn't look like this will be a user-level feature in Tiger, though, although the API is there for applications.

Article about this. (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=610)

[jefhatfield]

I cannot wait till the day I can buy 15" Powerbook for the weight of a 12" or less. Even though there is only like a 500 g difference, or whatever. To me, the 15" is the perfect size for everything. It's just kinda heavy and not as portable as the 12" version.

since my rev a 12 inch ibook and adapter are about the weight of a 17 inch pb, then i say one day apple's 15 inch pb will be 5 lbs or less

time brings us cheaper prices, more performance, and lighter portables...but believe it or not, at some point it will all flatten out and prices, performance, and weight will stabilizize...and knowing exactly when can make you very, very rich ;)

[QFace]

I wouldn't have bought my 12" powerbook if it was widescreen... as somebody said before, too much scrolling. Also, Civ III doesn't support widescreen, and I HATE when the aspect ratio gets messed up. I agree that widescreen has tons of advantages, but at 12 or 13 inches, the vertical height is just too small.

[JFreak]

Civ III doesn't support widescreen, and I HATE when the aspect ratio gets messed up.

yes it does, at least this 1280x854 resolution which 15" powerbook uses. and with 1152x768 widescreen, it would just show you 1024x768 image with 64 black pixels in both sides. how messed-up would that be?

now that i have thought about this, it would be really nice to have such model in the powerbook lineup. 13" maybe - does any company manufacture such display panes? those extra pixels would definetely be useful for many. there could possibly be enough room for pcmcia slot, if they need to make its case somewhat wider than before... should that happen, the little sister wouldn't be so crippled anymore :D

there would also be a nice difference between ibook (square) and powerbook (widescreen) laptops as whole...