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PsyD4Me
Apr 15, 2010, 09:30 PM
The new 10 hour battery life on the 13" MBP. 3-3.5 hours is just not cutting it.

Yes, i know the shortcomings of the update (no i5 or i7) but with SSD, 10 hour battery life and 2.63 it will do the job....
and its not that heavier...i know i'm gonna miss it a bit, but such is life.



Scottsdale
Apr 15, 2010, 10:51 PM
You're actually getting a hell of a lot more powerful Mac. With about double the graphics performance of the MBA, a lot faster CPU, up to 4X as much RAM, and triple the battery performance... sure, I can understand that. I hope Apple soon closes the gap again. Remember when the MBA was introduced in October 2008? It was so close in performance to the MB and not far from the 13" MBP, but now it's a long way back in most categories.

At the same time, the MBA's battery is the least of my concerns. I need the RAM capabilities of the 13" MBP, and I would be ecstatic and would drop the cash on a new MBA. We all have different needs, but for most of us the MBA just isn't cutting it anymore. For those that can use an iPad, the MBA would be a powerhorse. But for those of us that need a computer, the MBA is just lacking and far outdated. Let's hope Apple stops the bleeding with the MBA in the lineup, and gives the MBA a rightful update.

Good luck with your MBP.

jhgnag
Apr 15, 2010, 11:00 PM
The new 10 hour battery life on the 13" MBP. 3-3.5 hours is just not cutting it.

Yes, i know the shortcomings of the update (no i5 or i7) but with SSD, 10 hour battery life and 2.63 it will do the job....
and its not that heavier...i know i'm gonna miss it a bit, but such is life.

I think I may be headed in the same direction. What SSD are you installing?

theappleguy
Apr 16, 2010, 06:22 AM
I know how you feel, sadly I'm going to give up my MacBook Air for a MacBook Pro soon as well. It's not that I need anymore power than the MacBook Air offers (although 4GB RAM would be nice given the price), for me the key issue is storage - 120GB is not going to be enough while I am overseas for six months. Hopefully by the time I get back Apple will have a worthy successor to the current MacBook Air and I can sell the MacBook Pro and get another Air (I know I'm going to miss having one). :(

tangje
Apr 16, 2010, 08:09 AM
I wish my MBA had more battery life. Given the new manufacturing methods they developed for the Macbook Pro batteries I'm surprised that they can't make a new higher capacity battery for the MBA that we could just upgrade.

I live with the limitations of the MBA primarily because of portability. For me the extra 1.5 lbs really makes a difference when hauling around campus.

kernkraft
Apr 16, 2010, 08:18 AM
I know how it is. I've had two first gen Airs and eventually I sold them because of the hinge and noise problem. They are a pleasure to type on (slim body) and they still have a nice display.

I still miss the screen, in fact. The unibody trackpad is nice, the battery life this time around would be better (don't expect 10 hours, it's more likely to be 5-ish). The weight difference is noticeable. If you travel a lot, you'll notice. But you get a real workhorse.

Enjoy your new MBP!

maestrokev
Apr 16, 2010, 10:34 AM
I concur. I had the Rev.A and now the Rev.C. I need the 4GB RAM and the new MBP is now leaps and bounds ahead for only 2lbs more. Selling my MBA asap.

jhgnag
Apr 16, 2010, 03:38 PM
I concur. I had the Rev.A and now the Rev.C. I need the 4GB RAM and the new MBP is now leaps and bounds ahead for only 2lbs more. Selling my MBA asap.

Correction...1.5 lbs. (50%) heavier...

JonTok
Apr 16, 2010, 11:46 PM
.. the battery life this time around would be better (don't expect 10 hours, it's more likely to be 5-ish).

That's nonsense - my previous gen 2.26 MBP from Oct 2009 usually lasted 7 hours+ so there's no way the new 10-hour battery is going to be less than that. I expect 8-10 hours, which is phenomenal on anything but a Netbook.

I also am very sadly turning from thoughts of another MBA to the new MBP 13 inch - barring the Core2Duo engine the new updates were fantastic for me personally.

uniforms
Apr 17, 2010, 01:43 AM
I went from my beloved air B with SSD to a 13 MBP 2.53 with 4mg Ram before this last update. I needed the hard drive space and longer battery life. At first I didn't like the extra weight. But I quickly got use to it and really enjoyed having all the extras. I have especially grown fond of the glass track pad. When I go back to the air I have a hard time adjusting to the other with the button. I also find the quality of the MBP better. I got marks on my old one from the track pad button. I was hoping there would be a new air so I could go back to it. Till then I will use my MBP, and sell my air on ebay. I just may have to get the new 13 MBP because of the battery life and quicker graphics. With that being said, both machines are wonderful. There is nothing that comes close to them on the windows side. Good luck with the change. Air will always live in our hearts

mymoon
Apr 17, 2010, 01:46 AM
The new 10 hour battery life on the 13" MBP. 3-3.5 hours is just not cutting it.

Yes, i know the shortcomings of the update (no i5 or i7) but with SSD, 10 hour battery life and 2.63 it will do the job....
and its not that heavier...i know i'm gonna miss it a bit, but such is life.

I'm also probably going in the same direction. I have a 2.5 year old 15" MBP that still works like a charm (knocking on wood) but as an academic who does most of his work electronically I am conscious of the direct link between my computer and my livelihood. For my next purchase, I had been seriously considering a MBA (I rarely use the SuperDrive and I don't consider the 15" very portable because I typically also have at least several books to carry) but I need a bit more processing power with the number of programs I typically have open at one time. Without a MBA refresh, I'm now turning more seriously to the MBP 13" with SSD (probably 256GB).

Still hoping for the MBA refresh before the summer ends, tho... :apple:

janph76
Apr 17, 2010, 02:24 AM
Man! I was just thinking of the same thing! Battery life is my biggest gripe on the MBA.

kernkraft
Apr 17, 2010, 02:44 AM
That's nonsense - my previous gen 2.26 MBP from Oct 2009 usually lasted 7 hours+ so there's no way the new 10-hour battery is going to be less than that. I expect 8-10 hours, which is phenomenal on anything but a Netbook.

I also am very sadly turning from thoughts of another MBA to the new MBP 13 inch - barring the Core2Duo engine the new updates were fantastic for me personally.

Here is a late-2009 13" MBP for you, 'nonsense-shouting' friend of mine:

less than 3 hours with moderate use.

Scottsdale
Apr 17, 2010, 09:00 AM
Here is a late-2009 13" MBP for you, 'nonsense-shouting' friend of mine:

less than 3 hours with moderate use.

Yes those battery "advertisements" weren't quite accurate based on the "other" 99% of 13" MBP users. In addition, I have already read that the new 13" MBP with moderate use is getting about 5.5 to 6 hours... nowhere near the 10 hours Apple "advertises."

This is obviously a "special" MBP that is a 7-hour charmer with a special prototype feature - it's nuclear powered!

Apple will probably market the next MBA with a 7-hour battery even though it will probably only boost the battery from four hours to five hours between charges, and that's with BT off and the display at half brightness.

I don't want an MBA that gives up the power and performance we're already used to... we get more battery at a cost to performance, weight, or thickness. The cost of owning an MBA is we only get about four hours between charges, and I gladly accept that as more weight, a thicker MBA, or a less powerful MBA is a complete FAIL.

caonimadebi
Apr 17, 2010, 10:17 AM
Here is a late-2009 13" MBP for you, 'nonsense-shouting' friend of mine:

less than 3 hours with moderate use.

Your "moderate use" either exceeds the ordinary mac user experience, or your battery is seriously defective. You should look into your battery capacity, or its calibration.
I get 5+ hours with a 2.26Ghz 13" MBP, mostly with web browsing and document editing, with 93% battery capacity.

PsyD4Me
Apr 19, 2010, 08:11 AM
i've been using my MBA in bed while i was sick for the last few days and it has been such a pleasure, the thinnes felt great on my legs while laying down...
i think that I am having second thoughts...

JonTok
Apr 19, 2010, 09:06 AM
Your "moderate use" either exceeds the ordinary mac user experience, or your battery is seriously defective. You should look into your battery capacity, or its calibration.
I get 5+ hours with a 2.26Ghz 13" MBP, mostly with web browsing and document editing, with 93% battery capacity.

Agreed; their batteries must be defective. My Oct 2009 MBP 13 2.26 was a rock solid 7 hours with surfing, email & Office open. If Apple are saying 10 hours on the new batteries then getting 5.5-6 real world that's going to look very bad. I know they bend the truth on batteries, but doubling what people actually get is a bit too cheeky to be believed. I say; get calibrating...

andrew0122
Apr 19, 2010, 09:17 AM
If battery is you main concern I am almost certain that Apple is going to upgrade the Air sometime soon hopefully making it a Unibody thus increasing the size of the battery. I think we could expect a 7-8 hour battery and 4 GB should be standard especially if the RAM is soldered in to keep up with todays standards.

I regret selling my REV. A MBA. and have considered a new Macbook Pro.

I think I'll wait for the Air to see what it is going to offer.

justit
Apr 19, 2010, 11:15 AM
Given the new manufacturing methods they developed for the Macbook Pro batteries I'm surprised that they can't make a new higher capacity battery for the MBA

Surprised? Really? When the MBA came out it was the first aluminum unibody and also the first with enclosed battery, getting rid of the replacement casing, to retrograde a larger battery compartment.

It will NOT get better unless they add weight and it gets thicker (and poopoo the whole point of the MBA). There's not much they can do.

Now if they got rid of the fan housing, USB housing, Hard Drive/SSD housing, Keyboard housing... well then we'd have a bigger battery....oh wait that's an iPad :D

tangje
Apr 19, 2010, 11:47 AM
Surprised? Really? When the MBA came out it was the first aluminum unibody and also the first with enclosed battery, getting rid of the replacement casing, to retrograde a larger battery compartment.

It will NOT get better unless they add weight and it gets thicker (and poopoo the whole point of the MBA). There's not much they can do.

Now if they got rid of the fan housing, USB housing, Hard Drive/SSD housing, Keyboard housing... well then we'd have a bigger battery....oh wait that's an iPad :D

I guess I didn't realize that the MBA battery was manufactured using the same lithium-polymer process as the MBPs.

darngooddesign
Apr 19, 2010, 11:49 AM
If battery is you main concern I am almost certain that Apple is going to upgrade the Air sometime soon hopefully making it a Unibody thus increasing the size of the battery...

The Air is a unibody.

Scottsdale
Apr 19, 2010, 05:38 PM
i've been using my MBA in bed while i was sick for the last few days and it has been such a pleasure, the thinnes felt great on my legs while laying down...
i think that I am having second thoughts...

Hope you're feeling better. Don't give up on the MBA. If you need to think about replacing it, just use it for a few days. I cannot stomach the idea of switching to the Sony Vaio Z. It looks great on paper, but moving to over an inch thick to gain power and performance I don't need just seems crazy. 4 GB of RAM is my only true NEED from a new MBA.

Unlike many of you, I have no care for a better battery UNLESS I can get it without gaining weight, adding size, or affecting the performance of the MBA in any way. Moving to the 320m we can save some energy, but let's use that extra savings to remove the throttling from the CPU. Seriously, we have to assume we need to be at about 25W TDP. If the 320m is now at 8W TDP, and the CPU is at 17W TDP, we're ready to go full out with the CPU. Reducing the throttling of the CPU can add some serious performance gains.

I am not sure if Apple is using the same battery tech as uses in other Mac notebooks. I know it was the first to go non-removable. It was January 2009 when Apple introduced the new battery technology in the 17" MBPs. Apple never mentioned any changes to the MBA's battery. Apple doesn't advertise the MBA as having a 1000 cycle battery as it does with the other Mac notebooks. Nor did Apple ever advertise it as using the layered cells to decrease wasted space from cylinder shaped cells before it like it did when it introduced the technology. It mentioned that when it upgraded the MBPs and even the MB battery. I wonder if Apple can change the battery slightly to make it fit a little better using the new technology that don't waste space between the battery's cells. It could make the battery slightly denser but wouldn't add any substantial weight or demand more space. If anyone has ever opened the MBA, they can see that there is absolutely no space to add anymore battery. In addition, the thought of going to ultra low voltage CPU to give us more battery sounds like a bad idea and terrible hit to the CPU performance. And it doesn't even solve the problem of there being no space to add it in the first place.

People surely have to realize that the battery performance comes at a huge cost to size and weight of the Macs. The 17" MBP has a 7/9 hour battery, but wouldn't most MBP users prefer it to be thinner or have a better graphics system in place of the space and weight added by that battery? We can get more battery performance from our MBAs people, we just have to buy them stamped MBP that weigh 50% more. That is essentially the difference in the 13" MBP and the MBA. Sure, there are some performance differences, but the battery is the major cost to weight of the 13" MBP. And the optical drive costs it a lot of size, but the battery is still the largest component inside of the 13" MBP by a long shot. So if you want a thin Mac, like the MBA, that weighs three pounds, you have to be willing to accept four hours as more than acceptable. If you want a product for observation or entertainment viewing the iPad is right for you. I have never needed more battery. I have a charger at the couch, one at the bed, one at each desk I use (in the 24" LED ACDs), and keep one in my bag. I have an airline charger for my bag too. That all keeps me going fine. I have never needed to use the MBA for more than four hours away from a charger of some form. If people need that functionality, they should carry a 13" MBP instead. As the difference is mainly all the battery.

I would prefer that any additional capability added to battery be offset by using more powerful components CPUs/GPUs or by reducing the weight further. I am perfectly happy with a 4-hour battery. I would rather drop a half pound vs. add an 8-hour battery. I don't believe Apple would be dumb enough to add thickness or weight to the MBA. However, I wonder if it could do something similar as it did with the iPad to reduce the curving of the edges to eliminate the little wasted space there is? It would affect the minimum thickness of the MBA but probably reduce the maximum thickness ares of the MBA's case.

It may be me, but I am perfectly happy with the form factor of the MBA. I am happy with the battery. When I think about the changes I absolutely NEED, all I can think of is 4 GB of RAM. If I had to use it for three years or more, I would NEED the capability of upgrading to 8 GB of RAM at some point. Nothing else is needed. Sure, I want more stuff, but Apple could get a sale from me by just upgrading the RAM.

Where Apple really needs to go next is back to taking advantage of the BTO options and buyers (like the MBA buyers) who want more and are willing to pay for every bit of it! Have you ever thought about how much you would pay for your dream MBA? What does it consist of? Do you want more performance power? More battery life? Higher quality components? Or more INNOVATION?

jns2001
Apr 19, 2010, 06:11 PM
I wish my MBA had more battery life. Given the new manufacturing methods they developed for the Macbook Pro batteries I'm surprised that they can't make a new higher capacity battery for the MBA that we could just upgrade.

I live with the limitations of the MBA primarily because of portability. For me the extra 1.5 lbs really makes a difference when hauling around campus.

How about a Hypermac battery, the small one?:)

jns2001
Apr 19, 2010, 06:27 PM
i've been using my MBA in bed while i was sick for the last few days and it has been such a pleasure, the thinnes felt great on my legs while laying down...
i think that I am having second thoughts...

Honest question here:

I saw on your signature that you have an Ipad, wouldn't it be more comfortable than the MBA in bed to surf the net, and consume entertainment?

I have a MBA and I am thinking about getting an Ipad this weekend if I can rationalize it. One of the things that came to mind is media consumption while resting at night.

Let us know.

PsyD4Me
Apr 19, 2010, 10:40 PM
Honest question here:

I saw on your signature that you have an Ipad, wouldn't it be more comfortable than the MBA in bed to surf the net, and consume entertainment?

I have a MBA and I am thinking about getting an Ipad this weekend if I can rationalize it. One of the things that came to mind is media consumption while resting at night.

Let us know.

Honestly, at this point in my life I don't do much pure web surfing. Instead I am forced to multitask between writing my dissertation, analyzing data updating and grading my student's assignments, checking up on ESPN, macrumors, and listening to Soma.FM. So if i'm not on my Mac Pro i am glued to my MBA. Honestly, this would be impossible to accomplish on the iPad. I ordered the ipad because i knew that it would be for pure entertainment purposes. You know, videos+pictures on the go, light gaming, calendar (which looks great BTW), MLB app, checking my email+assignments, streaming TD Ameritrade stock app. I only see the iPad as a compliment to my arsenal of productivity toys.

The bottom line is that you have to know what you need and WANT to accomplish with the iPad. The iPad will never replace my MBA

PsyD4Me
Apr 19, 2010, 10:43 PM
Hope you're feeling better. Don't give up on the MBA. [/B]

i just spent 4 hours on it flipping back between running SPSS, word and power-point preparing a presentation, and there have been many times where I just picked it up with just a few fingers in order to transfer it to the kitchen or the living room. Portability at its best.
I'm going to wait some more....

tangje
Apr 20, 2010, 07:26 AM
I am not sure if Apple is using the same battery tech as uses in other Mac notebooks. I know it was the first to go non-removable. It was January 2009 when Apple introduced the new battery technology in the 17" MBPs. Apple never mentioned any changes to the MBA's battery. Apple doesn't advertise the MBA as having a 1000 cycle battery as it does with the other Mac notebooks. Nor did Apple ever advertise it as using the layered cells to decrease wasted space from cylinder shaped cells before it like it did when it introduced the technology. It mentioned that when it upgraded the MBPs and even the MB battery. I wonder if Apple can change the battery slightly to make it fit a little better using the new technology that don't waste space between the battery's cells. It could make the battery slightly denser but wouldn't add any substantial weight or demand more space.

That's what I was getting at. The MBA does say that it has a lithium-polymer battery (vs lithium-ion) which is the same tech as the MBPs. However, as you mentioned there are other reasons why it's not clear whether the MBA has the same 'advanced' battery as the MBP. I don't know whether the MBA has the flat cells or the cylindrical ones in the battery. Considering how much space is lost with the cylinders they could really boost the capacity of the MBA battery by using the flat cells (if they aren't already) with a nominal weight gain.

coolguyalex
Apr 20, 2010, 07:59 AM
The one thing that I don't understand about Apple is why they are yet to have the strongest influence in the computer market. We all know the influence they have in the music and mobile phone markets (with the iPod & iPhone) I feel that this could also be easily be achieved with their computer range.

While I don't know specifics, I'm sure they have the technology to provide customers with certain features that would significantly improve their products and make them stand out even more in a market that is dominated more by features rather than design. They have already dominated one area, why not go for broke?

halledise
Apr 20, 2010, 03:16 PM
I love my Air.
it still (and always will) float my boat.
til death do us part :D

rydrJ
Jul 23, 2010, 03:40 PM
Where did you guys end up selling your macbook airs? I know there's a lot of fraud out there, so just wanted to figure out other people's experiences first. Thanks!

bowlerman625
Jul 23, 2010, 05:03 PM
I sold my Rev A on eBay. Things went just fine for me.

thinkdesign
Jul 23, 2010, 07:39 PM
... became a 40 watt battery in Rev. C. Switching from cylindrical battery cells to a flat arrangement. That could account for a small % of gain, like that? Same materials, just filling-in the wasted space?

Surely someone can tell us if the Air's battery type has caught up to the Macbook Pros or not?

Just a thought: Assuming the Air's battery hasn't caught up... that would be one more thing they may be "saving up" for the next edition.

If so, that's another straw on my decision scales, landing on the side favoring "Wait to buy." Sigh.

Spacekatgal
Jul 23, 2010, 07:49 PM
Honestly, at this point in my life I don't do much pure web surfing. Instead I am forced to multitask between writing my dissertation, analyzing data updating and grading my student's assignments, checking up on ESPN, macrumors, and listening to Soma.FM.

These are my thoughts.

I got the 13 inch MBP for grad school. There is no perfect ultraportable right now, so there are tradeoffs either way.

The best part is the battery life. My gods, with ClicktoFlash and my Intel X-25 SSD in there I can easily get 8-9 hours. If you watch Flash videos it plummets, and if you're writing it skyrockets. But it's so great to have a laptop that lasts all day on campus.

Secondly, it's a machine you can do actual work on. It's more powerful, all the way around. It can't do my PS work with 1 gig files and 50 layers, but it's pretty good. You can do basic IL work, but not final exports. Maya is a complete no-go, though. I've definitely used in instead of my MBP i7 many times now on deadlines. When I put 8 gigs in it, I'll have even more power.

The screen is also much better and you have more ports.

The bad is the size. The bad is the weight. These are known, and don't bear repeating.

Honestly, I don't love it like I did my MBA - but it was a great choice for my needs.

Bri

Monolythix
Jul 24, 2010, 05:27 AM
These are my thoughts.

I got the 13 inch MBP for grad school. There is no perfect ultraportable right now, so there are tradeoffs either way.

The best part is the battery life. My gods, with ClicktoFlash and my Intel X-25 SSD in there I can easily get 8-9 hours. If you watch Flash videos it plummets, and if you're writing it skyrockets. But it's so great to have a laptop that lasts all day on campus.

Secondly, it's a machine you can do actual work on. It's more powerful, all the way around. It can't do my PS work with 1 gig files and 50 layers, but it's pretty good. You can do basic IL work, but not final exports. Maya is a complete no-go, though. I've definitely used in instead of my MBP i7 many times now on deadlines. When I put 8 gigs in it, I'll have even more power.

The screen is also much better and you have more ports.

The bad is the size. The bad is the weight. These are known, and don't bear repeating.

Honestly, I don't love it like I did my MBA - but it was a great choice for my needs.

Bri
I think you hit the nail on the head here. The MBA is perfect for information consuming - browsing, checking mail, listening to music and watching (and perhaps every now and then editing) photo's. And of course writing, which actualy is content creation.

The MBP is perfect for content creators - Adobe CS, 3D, programming, virtualization etc. Those are people who also will prefer the longer battery lie over the weight and size.

I think this will make the decison for some poeple more easy; if you fit in one of the groups above, choose the models that goes with it :)

Spacekatgal
Jul 24, 2010, 10:37 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head here. The MBA is perfect for information consuming - browsing, checking mail, listening to music and watching (and perhaps every now and then editing) photo's. And of course writing, which actualy is content creation.

The MBP is perfect for content creators - Adobe CS, 3D, programming, virtualization etc. Those are people who also will prefer the longer battery lie over the weight and size.

I think this will make the decison for some poeple more easy; if you fit in one of the groups above, choose the models that goes with it :)

Yeah - for all of the posturing and disdain by some about the iPad being for consumption and the MBA being a work tool, I call BS. It is a worktool*, if your job could also be done on a Pentium computer from 1995.

Bri

Scottsdale
Jul 27, 2010, 04:41 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head here. The MBA is perfect for information consuming - browsing, checking mail, listening to music and watching (and perhaps every now and then editing) photo's. And of course writing, which actualy is content creation.

The MBP is perfect for content creators - Adobe CS, 3D, programming, virtualization etc. Those are people who also will prefer the longer battery lie over the weight and size.

I think this will make the decison for some poeple more easy; if you fit in one of the groups above, choose the models that goes with it :)

The MBA is plenty wonderful for creation. Some people don't give it credit, but it's plenty capable. Sure it may not be as fast, but it's 1.5 lb. lighter weight, a lot thinner, and AMAZINGLY more fun and incredible than the stuffy big brother 13" MBP. If the 13" MBP had a Core i7 and real GPU, MAYBE... but that's just not the case. Here we have slightly better performance from the 13" MBP for INTENSIVE tasks. For "consumption" tasks, the MBA with the SSD standard will blow away the 13" MBP with its 5400 rpm HDD for $1499.

Spacekatgal
Jul 27, 2010, 10:27 AM
Scottsdale, unless you only use PS with its most superficial functions, the MBA is just not powerful enough to run it - end of story. In fact, I would argue that you don't need an $900 image editor if you're using it on an MBA - you can save money on a competitor, and spend it on an SSD.

The serious functions of PS - the 3D capabilities of the Extended version, the content aware features, working with smart objects across several programs - you simply cannot do this. You're not being realistic.

It's not even powerful enough to run Illustrator, which is much less CPU intensive. It's an issue of RAM, primarily - but the slow Read/write speed makes you wait with each and every action.

Believe me when I say I've tried it.