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Apple!Fre@k
Apr 21, 2010, 05:25 AM
Hey guys, I just hooked up my Apple TV to my Harman Kardon A/V receiver and the A/V receiver shows a prompt on the screen saying that the source is a Copy Protected Digital Input and to connect to the display using HDMI (and it won't show me any video from the Apple TV -- not even the menu, just a black screen with that prompt). Has anyone ever heard of this? Here's what I'm thinking but I wanted to confirm before I go out and buy a new cable:

I've got the Apple TV hooked up to my A/V receiver via HDMI and then the digital out from my A/V receiver is to my projector via component. Works fine for all of my other components (cable box, xbox, dvd, etc.), buts is the Apple TV for some reason unwilling to make the switch? Would connecting the Apple TV to my A/V receiver via component make it work?



BlackViper
Apr 21, 2010, 05:58 AM
Some protected content can only be played back over an HDMI connection. I don't believe this is an Apple problem, but mandated by the content producers.

hamlinspahn
Apr 21, 2010, 06:00 AM
It's not the connection type the device must be hdcp capable regardless of connection type.

viggen61
Apr 21, 2010, 08:25 AM
Hey guys, I just hooked up my Apple TV to my Harman Kardon A/V receiver and the A/V receiver shows a prompt on the screen saying that the source is a Copy Protected Digital Input and to connect to the display using HDMI (and it won't show me any video from the Apple TV -- not even the menu, just a black screen with that prompt). Has anyone ever heard of this? Here's what I'm thinking but I wanted to confirm before I go out and buy a new cable:

Which H-K do you have? I have an AVR354, and I've seen this message occasionally on startup, but it only lasts a second or two, as everything syncs up and communicates. I don't have an Apple TV (yet...), but my Satellite, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray all work fine via HDMI. And I'm connected to the TV via HDMI also.

Have you updated the firmware on the H-K? I've done two firmware updates on my 354 in the 16 months I've had it.

I've got the Apple TV hooked up to my A/V receiver via HDMI and then the digital out from my A/V receiver is to my projector via component. Works fine for all of my other components (cable box, xbox, dvd, etc.), buts is the Apple TV for some reason unwilling to make the switch? Would connecting the Apple TV to my A/V receiver via component make it work?

That might be your problem. The OM for my AVR354 states:

Due to copy-protection restrictions, there is no output at
the Component Video Monitor Outputs for copy-protected
sources.

The only copy-protected sources are HDMI sources (but not all HDMI sources are copy-protected), so if the Apple TV has HDCP on all the time, then that's why you can't see it on your analog component output.

Your DVD, even though it has HDMI doesn't have to conform to HDCP, so it passes through. Same goes, most likely, for your cable and Xbox.

You can either connect the Apple TV via component and optical to the H-K, bypassing any HDCP, or you can run HDMI to your projector, if it can accept an HDMI input (and is HDCP-compliant).

:apple::apple:

Apple!Fre@k
Apr 22, 2010, 06:08 AM
Which H-K do you have? I have an AVR354, and I've seen this message occasionally on startup, but it only lasts a second or two, as everything syncs up and communicates. I don't have an Apple TV (yet...), but my Satellite, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray all work fine via HDMI. And I'm connected to the TV via HDMI also.

Have you updated the firmware on the H-K? I've done two firmware updates on my 354 in the 16 months I've had it.



That might be your problem. The OM for my AVR354 states:

Due to copy-protection restrictions, there is no output at
the Component Video Monitor Outputs for copy-protected
sources.

The only copy-protected sources are HDMI sources (but not all HDMI sources are copy-protected), so if the Apple TV has HDCP on all the time, then that's why you can't see it on your analog component output.

Your DVD, even though it has HDMI doesn't have to conform to HDCP, so it passes through. Same goes, most likely, for your cable and Xbox.

You can either connect the Apple TV via component and optical to the H-K, bypassing any HDCP, or you can run HDMI to your projector, if it can accept an HDMI input (and is HDCP-compliant).

:apple::apple:

Thanks! Much appreciate the info!

Can't connect to the projector via HDMI because the cable runs through the attic and drops down the ceiling so that would be a big affair to replace the current component with HDMI.

Will go out and grab a component cable today and hopefully running the Apple TV to the HK that way will solve it.

Thanks!

viggen61
Apr 22, 2010, 07:46 AM
Thanks! Much appreciate the info!

Will go out and grab a component cable today and hopefully running the Apple TV to the HK that way will solve it.

Thanks!

That should do the trick. HDCP prevents one from making unauthorized bit-for-bit digital copies. Running Component (analog) video bypasses all that.

Don't forget the TOSLINK (Optical) cable (perhaps you already have one), if you want sound, too!

:apple::apple:

Apple!Fre@k
Apr 23, 2010, 06:43 PM
That should do the trick. HDCP prevents one from making unauthorized bit-for-bit digital copies. Running Component (analog) video bypasses all that.

Don't forget the TOSLINK (Optical) cable (perhaps you already have one), if you want sound, too!

:apple::apple:

Well, went out and bought a $40 component cable (cheapest the place had!!) and it didn't work. Well, that's half not true. It did work, but it's telling me I can only set the resolution at 480i to watch Apple TV. If I try 1080i, the "Copy Protected Digital Input" pops up again and shows me nothing but a blank screen.

What's going on here? Any ideas??? Is the problem with the Harman Kardon receiver I have? Any way to disable whatever this B.S. is about the Copy Protected Digital Input? I sure as hell don't want to watch my Apple TV on standard def when I just put $2,500 into an HD projector.

mingoglia
Apr 23, 2010, 07:09 PM
I'm a bit ignorant here, but doesn't apple TV only output 480i?

Apple!Fre@k
Apr 23, 2010, 07:41 PM
I'm a bit ignorant here, but doesn't apple TV only output 480i?

Nope. 720p. Any component that has an HDMI port will do at least 720p.

Apple!Fre@k
Apr 25, 2010, 03:23 PM
?

Apple!Fre@k
May 13, 2010, 06:16 PM
OK, now I'm absolutely fed up. Just got a blu-ray player. It's connected to my A/V receiver via HDMI and the video out runs to my projector via component. Popped my brand new Avatar blu-ray into the blu-ray player and I get the same friggin' black screen with the "Copy Protected Digital Input" notice.

WTF is going on here? I can't play ANYTHING through component out? This is a big ball of wax ****.

Makosuke
May 13, 2010, 06:40 PM
I'm fairly certain that devices capable of converting an HDMI signal to a high-def component one will flat-out refuse to do so if the HDMI input is HDCP protected. It's going to be the same no matter what you plug into your A/V deck--even if it's capable of converting high-def HDMI to high-def component, it's not going to, because that's a requirement of HDCP protection.

Nobody to blame but the movie industry and their ever-more-draconian copy protection schemes. Rage inducing but unavoidable with most modern high-def content.

There is at least one device that claims to do HDMI to component conversion at full rez even if the input is HDCP protected, but it's going to set you back about $150 if you can even find one--I assume due to the DMCA law it's not even legal in the US. Due to the same law I'm not even positive you're allowed to talk about it (cue seething hate for the MPAA and its friends in government), but it's pretty easy to Google up.

gnasher729
May 14, 2010, 05:35 AM
There is at least one device that claims to do HDMI to component conversion at full rez even if the input is HDCP protected, but it's going to set you back about $150 if you can even find one--I assume due to the DMCA law it's not even legal in the US. Due to the same law I'm not even positive you're allowed to talk about it (cue seething hate for the MPAA and its friends in government), but it's pretty easy to Google up.

In other words, HDCP is either invisible, but you paid for it, and the developers of various graphics cards, monitors and other devices had to waste their time developing it and making it work, or HDCP is a pain in the *** stopping you from watching movies that you had never any intent to copy illegally, or, if you _are_ indeed a pirate, it does nothing to actually stop you copying whatever movies you want to copy because you pay $150 for this device. Very nice. :(

Makosuke
May 14, 2010, 11:36 AM
In other words, HDCP is either [...] a pain in the *** stopping you from watching movies that you had never any intent to copy illegally, or, [...] it does nothing to actually stop you copying whatever movies you want to copy [...]Well, let's be fair, that's pretty much what all DRM technologies do.

They are presumably intended to defeat "casual" piracy. For all those people who casually rip video from an HDMI data stream with all those inexpensive HDMI frame grabbers you see at Radio Shack. Oh, wait...

Also, I would bet a substantial sum of money that one of the biggest groups of customers who would ever pay for a product and try to defeat DRM (versus people who would rip it for free but never would have paid) are people who DID pay and have issues with the DRM.

Like this case--I'd give you good odds in a bet that less than 1% of the people buying the aforementioned HDCP scrubber are going to use it to pirate video (versus just cracking the DRM on the source or getting the video some other way). The other 99% are people like the OP with incompatible hardware who just want to watch their HD video on their TV.

Apple!Fre@k
May 15, 2010, 06:18 PM
I'm fairly certain that devices capable of converting an HDMI signal to a high-def component one will flat-out refuse to do so if the HDMI input is HDCP protected. It's going to be the same no matter what you plug into your A/V deck--even if it's capable of converting high-def HDMI to high-def component, it's not going to, because that's a requirement of HDCP protection.

Nobody to blame but the movie industry and their ever-more-draconian copy protection schemes. Rage inducing but unavoidable with most modern high-def content.

There is at least one device that claims to do HDMI to component conversion at full rez even if the input is HDCP protected, but it's going to set you back about $150 if you can even find one--I assume due to the DMCA law it's not even legal in the US. Due to the same law I'm not even positive you're allowed to talk about it (cue seething hate for the MPAA and its friends in government), but it's pretty easy to Google up.

So aside from finding that secret box, is there no other way to make it work other than running an HDMI cable straight to the projector?

fpnc
May 15, 2010, 11:09 PM
I'm a bit ignorant here, but doesn't apple TV only output 480i?
The component output on the Apple TV supports 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i (for NTSC, substitute the equivalents for PAL). The HDMI output supports 1080p but it also enforces HDCP.

In any case, the highest resolution that the Apple TV can decode is 720p (1280x720 @ 24fps). However, everything is scaled to the selected output resolutions.

fpnc
May 15, 2010, 11:11 PM
So aside from finding that secret box, is there no other way to make it work other than running an HDMI cable straight to the projector?
You could run the Apple TV's component output directly to the projector. Furthermore, doesn't your receiver have a set of component inputs that could be switched out through the component monitor on that very same receiver?

As for component video itself, new laws in the U.S. are going to begin to close that "analog hole" over the next few years. I think starting in 2011 any new HD device introduced into the U.S. has to restrict its component video outputs to standard definition only (interlaced, not even 480p). Also, the MPAA is still fighting to allow it to use Selectable Output Control to block HD out over component connections (that is, the component outputs on video-on-demand devices). Here is a link to an article that briefly talks about Selectable Output Control with a suggestion on how to get around it.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/07/fcc-will-let-the-mpaa-disable-analog-outputs-kinda/