No MP until September?

[Deepshade]

Just seen this on HardMac (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/04/23/intel-hexa-core-cpu-virtual-release)

re Intel Hexacore

....it seems that this release was only virtual, as none of those CPUS are physically available. According to the website PC Inpact (http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/56492-intel-core-i7-970-amd-phenom-ii-x6.htm), their real availability might be postponed till next September, as some rumors reported it earlier...

This would be disappointing beyond belief and a true indication that Apple have lost the plot with regard the Pro market.

CS5 is now Intel only, Apple have announced the G5 obsolete (no Apple repair possible as of June) - that's the end of the line for a lot of equipment in design studios, and still no updates for Apples so called Pro Apps.

Seems its a case of purchase a PM thats out of date and overpriced against the competition or build a hackintosh. It appears by the time any new PM surfaces, Sandy Bridge will be the new boy in town and we will all have out of date kit in a matter of weeks!.

[ValSalva]

Just seen this on HardMac (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/04/23/intel-hexa-core-cpu-virtual-release)

re Intel Hexacore

....it seems that this release was only virtual, as none of those CPUS are physically available. According to the website PC Inpact (http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/56492-intel-core-i7-970-amd-phenom-ii-x6.htm), their real availability might be postponed till next September, as some rumors reported it earlier...

This would be disappointing beyond belief and a true indication that Apple have lost the plot with regard the Pro market.

CS5 is now Intel only, Apple have announced the G5 obsolete (no Apple repair possible as of June) - that's the end of the line for a lot of equipment in design studios, and still no updates for Apples so called Pro Apps.

Seems its a case of purchase a PM thats out of date and overpriced against the competition or build a hackintosh. It appears by the time any new PM surfaces, Sandy Bridge will be the new boy in town and we will all have out of date kit in a matter of weeks!.

The current Mac Pros are more than capable of running CS5. But I'm with you here - it would be very disappointing to have to wait until September. I had my hopes up with the rumor of imminent release in March. A September release is in 4 1/2 to 5 months away :(

If there's no release by WWDC it will be interesting to see what Apple has to say at the conference as one would think that there'd be developers there who are eagerly awaiting Mac Pro updates.

[Umbongo]

That is a mess of information and poor reporting. The PC Inpact article suggests there were rumours that the Core i7 970 was coming in the near future but won't be here until Q3. Seems to me the author of the Hardmac article thinks the 970 is already released and that this indicates there is some problem with supply.

[beaker7]

Or another way to think of it..."Supply is tight and end-consumers are having a hard time getting ahold of them because Apple is accumulating chips for a May launch" ;)

[Deepshade]

The current Mac Pros are more than capable of running CS5.

Yes - agree totally

BUT...thousands of studios have PPC G5s. And CS5 is Intel only.

With the current MP now (in technology terms terms - reaching late middle age) that raises a huge dilemma for G5 users who intend to collaborate with other artists and fellow workers using (the soon to be released) Intel only CS5.


On one hand....Who in their right mind is going to purchase MacPros now and screw their budget for the top of the line 'Pro' workstation with current Apple 'Pro' technology over a year old (and according to a design magazine hardly worthy of the term Pro Workstation).

On the other....If you hold off with the G5s - there's no way to embrace new technology/software from Adobe. And if your current G5 dies a few days into June you wont be able to get it repaired at an Apple Center - oh ******.

Yes in some respects this is always a problem - but the confluence of G5 termination and Adobes release will certainly cause a few studio update headaches.

Along with heat issues processing audio (now fixed) and lack of FCP update news it really feels like Apple as running behind the pack as far as the Pro user is concerned.

I'm certainly stuck between a rock and a hard place until a new MP is launched - no wonder the hackintosh option is a growing phenomena!

For the first time in years I am really feeling vulnerable being a Mac 'Pro" user.

Or another way to think of it..."Supply is tight and end-consumers are having a hard time getting ahold of them because Apple is accumulating chips for a May launch" ;)

Let's hope so ;)

[beaker7]

Yes - agree totally

BUT...thousands of studios have PPC G5s. And CS5 is Intel only.

With the current MP now (in technology terms terms - reaching late middle age) that raises a huge dilemma for G5 users who intend to collaborate with other artists and fellow workers using (the soon to be released) Intel only CS5.


On one hand....Who in their right mind is going to purchase MacPros now and screw their budget for the top of the line 'Pro' workstation with current Apple 'Pro' technology over a year old (and according to a design magazine hardly worthy of the term Pro Workstation).

On the other....If you hold off with the G5s - there's no way to embrace new technology/software from Adobe. And if your current G5 dies a few days into June you wont be able to get it repaired at an Apple Center - oh ******.

Yes in some respects this is always a problem - but the confluence of G5 termination and Adobes release will certainly cause a few studio update headaches.

Along with heat issues processing audio (now fixed) and lack of FCP update news it really feels like Apple as running behind the pack as far as the Pro user is concerned.

I'm certainly stuck between a rock and a hard place until a new MP is launched - no wonder the hackintosh option is a growing phenomena!

For the first time in years I am really feeling vulnerable being a Mac 'Pro" user.

If a given studio is still running G5's, I have a hard time believing they are also going to jump to CS5 immediately.

[mobilehaathi]

Well that article talks about the i7-970's. Apple is going to use these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340727%2050001157%201652944902&name=Six-Core) most likely. It seems consumers can purchase the i7-980X (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340343%201051744913%201302855196&name=Six-Core)'s now though, so I imagine the big manufacturers can get a hold of them too. As for the i7-970's....well newegg doesn't have em so maybe they're in tight supply for some reason?

[Deepshade]

If a given studio is still running G5's, I have a hard time believing they are also going to jump to CS5 immediately.

Why?

G5s have happily run the Creative suite up to CS4. Up to CS5 none of the CS code has been optimized to truly take advantage of the latest Macs. Granted After Effects may well be a little less like watching paint dry on the new Macs - but on the whole, most of the other publishing apps haven't really warranted the investment of new machines.

Terminate support/repair for the G5 and release software you can't run - now that seems like jumpin' time to me ;)

[DualShock]

If this is true, as well as the AMD rumors, might we see Opterons in the next Mac Pro?

Dual 12 core CPU's (http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/30/amd-launches-12-core-opteron-server-chips-intel-counters-with-t/) would be nice. :D

[xgman]

If it is September, I'm seriously considering jumping ship re: a new MP. That would be way late. :mad:

[bearcatrp]

I can get a xeon 6 core NOW at newegg and provatage. Not sure where they got there info from unless apple wants a special one.

[macusersince5]

man this is freaking bull crap. I want a new mac pro now. I have all my money saved up... oh well if I have to wait until september, maybe i'll get lightpeak or a better kick A machine. :D

[xgman]

And money saved up is quickly finding other needs. :(

[malcolm233391]

Tight supply my ass, I was able to purchase the 980x chip a few days ago on tigerdirect without any delay in shipping or backorder.

[Umbongo]

Tight supply my ass, I was able to purchase the 980x chip a few days ago on tigerdirect without any delay in shipping or backorder.

There is a difference between an individual being able to source one and companies purchasing the amount they need. But this article is incorrect anyway, no evidence a Mac Pro will be delayed here.

[beaker7]

Tight supply my ass, I was able to purchase the 980x chip a few days ago on tigerdirect without any delay in shipping or backorder.

Mac Pro's use Xeons.

[malcolm233391]

Mac Pro's use Xeons.

Yes I know they use Xeons. There are plenty of X5600 series readily available online. The Custom workstations and the individual CPUs are in stock at many online retailers. I'm also putting my money on a June refresh for the Mac Pros and Apple Cinema Display.

[nanofrog]

There is a difference between an individual being able to source one and companies purchasing the amount they need. But this article is incorrect anyway, no evidence a Mac Pro will be delayed here.
It's harder for individual consumers to obtain them if supplies are tight, as Intel has to fill their contract orders first (there's usually financial penalties included in the contracts if they don't meet delivery dates & quantities).

As per the articles, they seem entirely inaccurate to me as well.

[surferfromuk]

Surely only people in a desperate 'no reasonable alternative' situation are buying the current ones and that's a cr*ppy way to have to conduct your business.

The real tragedy is that Apple are going to send a lot of CS5 users to windows over this.

We all know June is 'new iPhone' time and that never harms sales so just pre-annouce the thing so we all know what the situation is - better still ship an interim updated model - do it again in October if you have to!

[Transporteur]

The real tragedy is that Apple are going to send a lot of CS5 users to windows over this.


How so?
Is the current 8-core model not powerful enough for CS5?

Is CS5 really that optimised that it can use more than 4 cores, which apparently is the absolute maximum for CS4 apps besides Premiere?

[surferfromuk]

How so?
Is the current 8-core model not powerful enough for CS5?

Is CS5 really that optimised that it can use more than 4 cores, which apparently is the absolute maximum for CS4 apps besides Premiere?

Really depends what machine your jumping from - anybody on an 08/09 Mac Pro hardly has a problem - any other machine in Apple's line up constitutes a compromise and a potential purchase upgrade.

[vvrinne]

Tuesday, definitely next tuesday :p

[rajbonham]

How so?
Is the current 8-core model not powerful enough for CS5?

Is CS5 really that optimised that it can use more than 4 cores, which apparently is the absolute maximum for CS4 apps besides Premiere?

No, the current Mac Pros are beyond overpriced right now. Normally they are overpriced. With the current models, it's like Apple is stealing from us. It's not a matter of power, but price.

Tuesday, definitely next tuesday :p

:rolleyes:

[jrlcopy]

I can get a xeon 6 core NOW at newegg and provatage. Not sure where they got there info from unless apple wants a special one.

You can also buy them inside of HP's workstations, the z600/z800 series. A tight supply maybe, but they are available.

[drewyboy]

Man, the small company I work for is about to take the plunge in to the mac world for editing and we'll be getting about 5 mac pro's, and I'm trying to hold out as long as possible for the new ones...whenever they come out, but a deadline is a deadline and here's to hoping by the end of may. Otherwise I'll just have to be content with the purchase.

[Phantom Gremlin]

Hardmac doesn't know what they're talking about.

The W3680 is readily available. Dell will gladly take your order for a T3500 workstation with any of three different six core processors (including the W3680). Estimated shipping date is May 4, 2010.

Yes, sometimes Dell slips their estimates. But in this case my money is on Dell, not on some obscure little rumor site (that links to some French language site as their source!).

[GiantDolphin]

Dell will gladly take your order for a T3500 workstation with any of three different six core processors (including the W3680). Estimated shipping date is May 4, 2010.


Perzactly. Dell seems to have no supply problems with the new Xeons. They even have 12-core machines available. It's not supply. Something else is going on. :confused:

[telequest]

Tuesday, definitely next tuesday :p

I'll gladly pay today for a Mac Pro next Tuesday.

Otherwise I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

I sure hope Apple makes the wait worth it ... so that we all say - oh THAT's why we had to wait so long - once the 2010s (2011s?) are finally released. I still can't figure out just what that would be.

[Icaras]

I sure hope Apple makes the wait worth it ... so that we all say - oh THAT's why we had to wait so long - once the 2010s (2011s?) are finally released. I still can't figure out just what that would be.

*Cough*Macbook Pro 13"*cough*

[TennisandMusic]

six core processors are on the shelves at this very moment.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115226&cm_re=core_i7_980x-_-19-115-226-_-Product

I know that's not the xeon but it's basically the same thing, and it's a hexacore.

[Nostromo]

I won't lose any sleep over a later release date.

I'm more interested in a great, well-priced line-up than in a quick update.

[cutthroughthebs]

Just seen this on HardMac (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/04/23/intel-hexa-core-cpu-virtual-release)

re Intel Hexacore

....it seems that this release was only virtual, as none of those CPUS are physically available. According to the website PC Inpact (http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/56492-intel-core-i7-970-amd-phenom-ii-x6.htm), their real availability might be postponed till next September, as some rumors reported it earlier...

This would be disappointing beyond belief and a true indication that Apple have lost the plot with regard the Pro market.

CS5 is now Intel only, Apple have announced the G5 obsolete (no Apple repair possible as of June) - that's the end of the line for a lot of equipment in design studios, and still no updates for Apples so called Pro Apps.

Seems its a case of purchase a PM thats out of date and overpriced against the competition or build a hackintosh. It appears by the time any new PM surfaces, Sandy Bridge will be the new boy in town and we will all have out of date kit in a matter of weeks!.

You act likea 2009 Mac Pro is some dinosaur POS or something... Your funny little post is indicative of your IQ. Can you state what PRO application I CANT run on my 2009 Nehalem? You can't so just quit posting your uneducated prophesy.

[TennisandMusic]

You act likea 2009 Mac Pro is some dinosaur POS or something... Your funny little post is indicative of your IQ. Can you state what PRO application I CANT run on my 2009 Nehalem? You can't so just quit posting your uneducated prophesy.

It's not that you can't run certain software on it, it's that it's severely outclassed by 1k consumer PC's (including lynnfield stuff now), and was sorta that way the day it launched. They need to get with the times both performance and cost wise.

[anim8or]

I won't lose any sleep over a later release date.

I'm more interested in a great, well-priced line-up than in a quick update.

Quick!!!

Its been 13 months since any sort of incremental update. I would be happy to buy a Mac Pro now if it wasnt for the fact i am paying the same as i would have over a year ago... with no changes WHATSOEVER!

[Deepshade]

It's not that you can't run certain software on it, it's that it's severely outclassed by 1k consumer PC's (including lynnfield stuff now), and was sorta that way the day it launched. They need to get with the times both performance and cost wise.

Agreed - mentioned this recently in another thread - I spotted a design mag (yes the Mac Pros major market sector!) article which discussed Design Workstations. The so called current Mac Pro model was described something like 'only just qualifying for the workstation title!!'. With the bottom end the only one delivering performance/£ anywhere near the PC competition. Many PCs out perform the current mac pros - and at a much lower price point.

Mac Pro used to stand for something - doesnt seem to now - apart from being very expensive. It needs to deliver performance and price comparable to the PC competition for starters - it also needs to keep up with PRO development - not be nearly 18 months behind.

Apple need to get with the times and release information that allows their pro users to plan. It's not a bunch of fan boys waiting to spend their allowance, its business's trying to plan for the future.

[bearcatrp]

six core processors are on the shelves at this very moment.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115226&cm_re=core_i7_980x-_-19-115-226-_-Product

I know that's not the xeon but it's basically the same thing, and it's a hexacore.

Newegg has the xeon 6 core to....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340727%201652744898%201652944902&name=Six-Core
Tired of apple's high prices so will be building my own system with a pair of one of these.

[rajbonham]

Newegg has the xeon 6 core to....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340727%201652744898%201652944902&name=Six-Core
Tired of apple's high prices so will be building my own system with a pair of one of these.

Interesting, even Newegg has the processors now. I would expect the Mac Pro update to show up anytime in May. If not, Apple has run out of excuses.

[TennisandMusic]

What I don't understand is...with Apple's focus on their iGadget's, what are we supposed to be using to develop for them? Obviously we need OSX based tools (XCode for one) but...are we supposed to settle for the Mac Pro? Or use a busted iMac?

I have to say working on my Windows 7 machine right now is a dream. Working on my OSX machine is depressing. The feel and responsiveness of each OS is just leagues apart unfortunately. And then you factor in the machine choices...

I am totally cool with Apple's new gadget's. I own pretty much all of them (iPhone, and iPad). But I really don't see why they have to be at the expense of the content creation platforms. You really can't have your gadgets and no pro machines and software to back them up. It just cannot be sustained this way forever. Apple could be gaining so much market share, and just have legions of people flocking over. Instead they are happy with a much smaller group of people paying exorbitant prices in order to reap massive profits. I just don't agree with that really...

[KeriJane]

It's not that you can't run certain software on it, it's that it's severely outclassed by 1k consumer PC's (including lynnfield stuff now), and was sorta that way the day it launched. They need to get with the times both performance and cost wise.


Huh?

A Mac Pro, ANY Mac Pro "Outclassed" by a $1k machine?

I doubt it.

Apple selling their computers at, near or under cost like everyone else?
MOST UNLIKELY.

Have you ever used a Mac Pro? With Pro Apps?
And used that mythical $1k PC with the same type of Apps?

And you're seriously implying that an 8-core Nehalem (or even the budget 4-core) can be bested by a slightly over-average Dell?

Fine. Then buy one. Have Fun, Enjoy. And leave us SUCKERS in peace with our monstrously overpriced stylish antique paperweights.
Since it's no longer of any use for computing due to its advanced old age, I think maybe I'll turn mine into a flowerpot. Or an aquarium.

Seems to me that people have been screaming for the next MP (or iMac, or MBP or even Mini) ever since the "new" ones came out a year ago.

You know the routine..... Look for evidence of short supplies on the 30" ACD and 8-core, wait, wait, wait until you can't take it anymore and then finally buy the old one 3 days before the surprise launch of the new one!

That's the cost of being on the Bleeding Edge.... Brain Damage! :p Oh, and a new computer every 3-5 years.
Enjoy!

Keri

[TennisandMusic]

Huh?

A Mac Pro, ANY Mac Pro "Outclassed" by a $1k machine?

I doubt it.

Apple selling their computers at, near or under cost like everyone else?
MOST UNLIKELY.

Have you ever used a Mac Pro? With Pro Apps?
And used that mythical $1k PC with the same type of Apps?

And you're seriously implying that an 8-core Nehalem (or even the budget 4-core) can be bested by a slightly over-average Dell?

Fine. Then buy one. Have Fun, Enjoy. And leave us SUCKERS in peace with our monstrously overpriced stylish antique paperweights.
Since it's no longer of any use for computing due to its advanced old age, I think maybe I'll turn mine into a flowerpot. Or an aquarium.

Seems to me that people have been screaming for the next MP (or iMac, or MBP or even Mini) ever since the "new" ones came out a year ago.

You know the routine..... Look for evidence of short supplies on the 30" ACD and 8-core, wait, wait, wait until you can't take it anymore and then finally buy the old one 3 days before the surprise launch of the new one!

That's the cost of being on the Bleeding Edge.... Brain Damage! :p Oh, and a new computer every 3-5 years.
Enjoy!

Keri

Yes I have owned Mac Pros. I do not own one now because there aren't any good ones to buy. Should have grabbed the 2008's when they were out.

So yes, I have used pro apps on a mac pro. And yes I HAVE used those same types of apps on a 1k PC (We are talking photoshop, video editing, music production apps) and the 1k PC beats it. Of course here we are talking about a 2499 base model vs a roughly 1k PC. I built a 1200 dollar i7 920 machine fairly recently that had a 5770 ati card, 12 gigabytes of corsair dominator ram, a nice EVGA motherboard, and ran at 3.6ghz without breaking a sweat. 1200 dollars. Compare to that to what you get for 2499 from Apple. You can go even more budget if you build a p55 based machine and overclocking it will still yield far better performance than a Mac Pro quad of just about any type (4 ghz anyone?).

I know this stuff pretty darn well. Inside and out you might say. People who buy the current Mac Pros ARE suckers, unless you absolutely need it for apps like Logic and FCS. However for those that are in that situation, they tend to be in a business that can "afford" to flush money away for machines of that nature. For the rest of us, pretty much everything runs on Windows, and in Adobe's case, it runs better. The PC world is pretty great to be honest. Or as Steve might say "insanely great." It's quite alright to think both platforms are worthy of using.

I don't compare Apple machines to places like Dell, personally. I wouldn't want to buy from them for the most part. But anyone at all can build a world class machine in an afternoon if they make the choice to take responsibility for their tools. It is really not hard. It's easier than putting together a basic lego set in all honesty.

You did go a bit overboard in your response to me I think, but that's fine. I know people get emotional when talking about the price of Apple gear because they don't want to feel foolish for buying it. Well it's really not a criticism, because I buy Apple gear too. I fully admit it's almost all entirely a huge rip off (the iMac's would be pretty good if they weren't defective) and yet I've plunked down the cash again and again for various reasons. So yeah, I'M a sucker too. It's fine. I am not putting people down for their choices, that would be quite undeserved (as if ALL my choices in life have been good ones...that's a laugh!). I am however criticizing Apple for their product line up, their apparent lack of respect for pro users these days, and the dearth of quality in what they do offer (all IMO of course).

[Tonytownsend]

I dont get it some of you are running cross platform software and havent bought a PC yet why? The only reason am still waiting for this 2010 mac pro is I use Logic for main DAW so I am stuck. But man if I had a choice i would be resting my feet on a new dell gulftown.

[Techhie]

And here we sit, with $5k in hand looking at a bunch of displays. Seems rather familiar to February...you know...the last time they were "supposed to launch." I've been on hot feet for 9 months. I don't know how much longer I can keep juggling workstations in fear of losing my investment because of a Cupertino "surprise attack."

I would stick with an '08, but the AppleCare on most of those fine machines is wearing thin. I don't want to spend $2,000 on a computer that could need a $1k new logic board in a month.

[Magaman]

THis is killing me, I've been holding out since December. I was on the verge of just making a little CPU upgrade on my PC, but instead decided to hold out, now I'm torn.

[Nostromo]

Yes I have owned Mac Pros. I do not own one now because there aren't any good ones to buy. Should have grabbed the 2008's when they were out.

So yes, I have used pro apps on a mac pro. And yes I HAVE used those same types of apps on a 1k PC (We are talking photoshop, video editing, music production apps) and the 1k PC beats it. Of course here we are talking about a 2499 base model vs a roughly 1k PC. I built a 1200 dollar i7 920 machine fairly recently that had a 5770 ati card, 12 gigabytes of corsair dominator ram, a nice EVGA motherboard, and ran at 3.6ghz without breaking a sweat. 1200 dollars. Compare to that to what you get for 2499 from Apple. You can go even more budget if you build a p55 based machine and overclocking it will still yield far better performance than a Mac Pro quad of just about any type (4 ghz anyone?).

I know this stuff pretty darn well. Inside and out you might say. People who buy the current Mac Pros ARE suckers, unless you absolutely need it for apps like Logic and FCS. However for those that are in that situation, they tend to be in a business that can "afford" to flush money away for machines of that nature. For the rest of us, pretty much everything runs on Windows, and in Adobe's case, it runs better. The PC world is pretty great to be honest. Or as Steve might say "insanely great." It's quite alright to think both platforms are worthy of using.

I don't compare Apple machines to places like Dell, personally. I wouldn't want to buy from them for the most part. But anyone at all can build a world class machine in an afternoon if they make the choice to take responsibility for their tools. It is really not hard. It's easier than putting together a basic lego set in all honesty.

You did go a bit overboard in your response to me I think, but that's fine. I know people get emotional when talking about the price of Apple gear because they don't want to feel foolish for buying it. Well it's really not a criticism, because I buy Apple gear too. I fully admit it's almost all entirely a huge rip off (the iMac's would be pretty good if they weren't defective) and yet I've plunked down the cash again and again for various reasons. So yeah, I'M a sucker too. It's fine. I am not putting people down for their choices, that would be quite undeserved (as if ALL my choices in life have been good ones...that's a laugh!). I am however criticizing Apple for their product line up, their apparent lack of respect for pro users these days, and the dearth of quality in what they do offer (all IMO of course).

This is why more and more people build hackintoshes.

It's clear that Apple has to lower the prices on Mac Pros and never, ever again give us lame duck junk like the Quad (which is slower than even a basic iMac now).

I like using Macs and wish Apple comes to its senses. Which is highly unlikely with the current success it has. I'd rather expect hubris and even higher prices.

And Apple's market share is rising.

The key benefit of the mac is that the computer has been designed by one source, and is not frankensteined together. I heard there can be plenty of problems with certain PC parts not playing well with others. Also, on a PC you have to fight viruses and trojan horses and hunt for drivers all the time. And, I must say this, the windows design is ugly.

Yes, me too I get jealous when the PC world can buy a similar computer for half the money.

But on the other hand I had little problems with my macs (well, I had my screen replaced once on my iMac, but Apple paid).

[JesterJJZ]

If "Hackintoshing" wasn't possible, you'd all be singing a different tune. Personally, I keep hoping Apple finds a way to put an end to such nonsense. If you install OSX on generic hardware the tower should sprout legs and start running away from you! :p

[nanofrog]

If "Hackintoshing" wasn't possible, you'd all be singing a different tune. Personally, I keep hoping Apple finds a way to put an end to such nonsense. If you install OSX on generic hardware the tower should sprout legs and start running away from you! :p
Hardware wise, MP's are effectively the same as any other Intel based computer of the same parts (processor and CPU, as other parts, such as NIC's, audio chips,... can be from different manufacturers, and there is the possibility of adding components for additional features).

What really separates the MP, is the EFI firmware that ties OS X to the systems. And it's not that wonderful without access to it IMO (causes limitations, some of which can be overcome, but may take a considerable amount of additional funds, while others have to be dealt with, as there's no solution).

There's case design of course, which is subjective (in terms of appearance, as the internals are nice, but not the best compared to other workstations in terms of flexibility and ease of part replacements).

[Icaras]

Well, ladies and gents, seems like today officially marks the full 14 month wait since the Mac Pro was last updated, and according to the Mac Rumors buyer's guide, by the end of today, this will also officially be the longest wait product cycle life span of the Mac Pro since it was first conceived.

Cheers! :D................:(

[keewe]

i expected a launch shortly after the gulftown release (march 16)...:/
i'm ready to pull the trigger and with each day passing by my actual need is getting bigger. i can still handle my jobs on my mbp and my windows machine but seriously... its just demotivating :P

may 11 will be the last chance for apple... after that i'll get a dell.

[Icaras]

i expected a launch shortly after the gulftown release (march 16)...:/
i'm ready to pull the trigger and with each day passing by my actual need is getting bigger. i can still handle my jobs on my mbp and my windows machine but seriously... its just demotivating :P

may 11 will be the last chance for apple... after that i'll get a dell.

I would at give it until the end of May to be honest actually. If we recall, the MBPs got updated approximately 2 weeks into the original iPad launch, so I don't think Apple would want to release new Mac Pros shortly after their most prized product, regardless if people think Apple could still get away with it, no matter how quiet the update is.

We all know that June is going to be the start of iPhone season so I would logically give space to May for the best potential time frame for a Mac Pro update.

[Umbongo]

Well, ladies and gents, seems like today officially marks the full 14 month wait since the Mac Pro was last updated, and according to the Mac Rumors buyer's guide, by the end of today, this will also officially be the longest wait product cycle life span of the Mac Pro since it was first conceived.

Cheers! :D................:(

It isn't.

2006 Mac Pro to 2008 Mac Pro was 520 days.
2008 Mac Pro to 2009 Mac Pro was 420 days.
2009 Mac Pro to today is 420 days.

[Icaras]

It isn't.

2006 Mac Pro to 2008 Mac Pro was 520 days.
2008 Mac Pro to 2009 Mac Pro was 420 days.
2009 Mac Pro to today is 420 days.

Ah, so the 8-core update in 2007 doesn't count I guess?

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/04/apple-releases-8-core-mac-pro/

This would just count as an addition?

[Umbongo]

Ah, so the 8-core update in 2007 doesn't count I guess?

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/04/apple-releases-8-core-mac-pro/

This would just count as an addition?

I think so yes. Although it is the 2,1 Mac Pro, it was just a processor addition, nothing else new about it. About as significant as the December 2009 addition of the 3.33GHz quad core option in regards to product cycles I feel.

[xgman]

If we recall, the MBPs got updated approximately 2 weeks into the original iPad launch, so I don't think Apple would want to release new Mac Pros shortly after their most prized product

You guys are still over-thinking this. This has absolutely nothing to do with other products timing. If they had something ready it would have already been out. When the parts are there they will release it, plain and simple. The Mac Pro doesn't compete on any level with any of their other product lines. It's targeted at a different customer base.

[Icaras]

I think so yes. Although it is the 2,1 Mac Pro, it was just a processor addition, nothing else new about it. About as significant as the December 2009 addition of the 3.33GHz quad core option in regards to product cycles I feel.

Oh right, I forgot to factor in the actual model numbers too. Makes sense.

You guys are still over-thinking this. This has absolutely nothing to do with other products timing. If they had something ready it would have already been out. When the parts are there they will release it, plain and simple. The Mac Pro doesn't compete on any level with any of their other product lines. It's targeted at a different customer base.

I am over thinking this. Its what happens when a refresh doesn't occur in a 14 month span! :p

Your right though. This needs to be grounded in reality, more than mere speculation. I guess we can also assume that the timing of the MBPs had more to do with the Arrandale shortages too than product launch conflicts?

[Houston]

Oh right, I forgot to factor in the actual model numbers too. Makes sense.



I am over thinking this. Its what happens when a refresh doesn't occur in a 14 month span! :p

Your right though. This needs to be grounded in reality, more than mere speculation. I guess we can also assume that the timing of the MBPs had more to do with the Arrandale shortages too than product launch conflicts?

I'm now in cruise control. If it doesn't happen in May, then we're probably in for a long wait. iPhone mania will take over in June.

[telequest]

I'm now in cruise control. If it doesn't happen in May, then we're probably in for a long wait. iPhone mania will take over in June.

C'mon folks, I agree with others that the timing of a Mac Pro release will have absolutely nothing to do with marketing strategy for iPhones, iPads or i-anything. I really don't think Oprah is going to be gushing on her show over her new Mac Pro. The new Mac Pro will not make the cover of Time or Newsweek. There will probably not be a single paid ad on TV or elsewhere. Steve Jobs might never even utter the words "Mac Pro". There probably won't be any press event. We'll be lucky to even get a press release.

They'll be released when they're ready, probably silently, and I'm guessing without any reason given for the wait.

And then I'll buy two of them for my business.

[Apple Corps]

My belief is that xgman has hit the nail on the head!! A lot of speculative wheel spinning regarding product launch cycles vs other product lines.

My two cents is that they are having engineering and / or parts availability issues.

Might there be an even more powerful processor on the horizon that tey could be waiting for :confused:

[Nostromo]

I'm now in cruise control. If it doesn't happen in May, then we're probably in for a long wait. iPhone mania will take over in June.

Yes, very unlikely that they release a Mac Pro in the same month as the new iPhone, or in summer.

Between September and Christmas then...

Only 200 more "where is the new MP" threads to go :)

[Deepshade]

Its starting to make life complicated. With the G5s being made obsolete in 6 weeks time. I know there are going to be a lot of design studios that will be unable to get Apple repairs on current working kit if it dies. So it is time to move on up.

It's too late to purchase current 14 months old tech - that would be foolhardy.

With no support from Apple, is it time to look elsewhere to power the 3D renderings and video edits? or even the day to day Apps that no longer run on PPC machines?

C'mon Apple - let's have some news for the MP faithful!

[blackmtn]

Its starting to make life complicated. With the G5s being made obsolete in 6 weeks time. I know there are going to be a lot of design studios that will be unable to get Apple repairs on current working kit if it dies. So it is time to move on up. (snip)

I've been following all of the rumor threads and I'd be surprised if we didn't see new MPs (and ACD's for that matter) before they EOL the G5 and 30".

[raysfan81]

Just seen this on HardMac (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/04/23/intel-hexa-core-cpu-virtual-release)

re Intel Hexacore

....it seems that this release was only virtual, as none of those CPUS are physically available. According to the website PC Inpact (http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/56492-intel-core-i7-970-amd-phenom-ii-x6.htm), their real availability might be postponed till next September, as some rumors reported it earlier...

This would be disappointing beyond belief and a true indication that Apple have lost the plot with regard the Pro market.

CS5 is now Intel only, Apple have announced the G5 obsolete (no Apple repair possible as of June) - that's the end of the line for a lot of equipment in design studios, and still no updates for Apples so called Pro Apps.

Seems its a case of purchase a PM thats out of date and overpriced against the competition or build a hackintosh. It appears by the time any new PM surfaces, Sandy Bridge will be the new boy in town and we will all have out of date kit in a matter of weeks!.

AMD 6-cores are out now............... just sayin

[Nostromo]

AMD 6-cores are out now............... just sayin

Always heard AMD's are lagging behind Intel processors.

I don't think we'll see them in a Mac Pro anytime soon.

Hopefully.

[parakiet]

Always heard AMD's are lagging behind Intel processors.


amd is lagging behind..

the current macpro is >400 days 'old'
in pc terms that's way passed 'lagging'

[ValSalva]

WWDC is in early June. Maybe new Mac Pros by then or announced there? If not at WWDC then a September date is likely. At least with WWDC earlier than anticipated, because of previous rumors it would take place at the end of June, we'll all know earlier.

[Transporteur]

AMD 6-cores are out now............... just sayin

And they are sloooowww!

I said this in another thread, a 2.62GHz 12-core AMD machine can't compete with a 2.26GHz 8-core XEON Nehalem machine. It is slower!

Definitely no option for the Mac Pro!

[Deepshade]

Another article (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/05/06/no-6-core-xeons-in-quantity-before-the-end-of-the-second-quarter) about short hexacore supply. This time an official announcement from Intel.

[nanofrog]

Another article (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/05/06/no-6-core-xeons-in-quantity-before-the-end-of-the-second-quarter) about short hexacore supply. This time an official announcement from Intel.
That article is really vague though, and not all of the 32nm parts will be hex core parts either. Some are 4 cores per die, though still made on the 32nm process.

Of the SP parts, only one will be a hex core, and that's the same as the i7-980X with the ECC as Enabled. So that line can produce the Xeon variant, and has been in production longer.

But what it applies to IMO, are the smaller vendors that have to bid on any available stocks that aren't routed to contract buyers (larger vendors, such as Dell, HP and Apple).

Intel will satisfy those contracts first, or likely suffer financial penalties that are written into the contract.

[zeff]

Of the SP parts, only one will be a hex core, and that's the same as the i7-980X with the ECC as Enabled. So that line can produce the Xeon variant, and has been in production longer.

There should actually be some significant differences between the i7-980x and the x5680 (5670, 5660, 5650, etc.), and not just ECC (but I could be wrong, so please forgive me).

I think the dual QPI links, memory controller differences, and a slew of other things that go into the xeon line for server grade performance can easily affect yield. Those 6 core xeons will be run with the Westmere 32nm process, but things are different enough that yield could easily be affected by the rather small design differences. Especially running 6 cores, at blazing speeds with a max memory of 288 GB on the x56[5-8]0 (as opposed to 24 GB on the i7-980x) with two QPI links (instead of one). Not to mention the x5860 supports the 1333 DDR3 (as opposed to the 1066 DDR 3 for the i7-980x) and that just adds more testing differences where yield can be affected. The smallest design changes (especially on a new process) can greatly affect yield.

12 Cores will be great! I just have no idea what to do with 12 cores and 24 threads.

For me, 8 (and 16 threads) is enough.

[nanofrog]

There should actually be some significant differences between the i7-980x and the x5680 (5670, 5660, 5650, etc.), and not just ECC (but I could be wrong, so please forgive me).

I think the dual QPI links, memory controller differences, and a slew of other things that go into the xeon line for server grade performance can easily affect yield. Those 6 core xeons will be run with the Westmere 32nm process, but things are different enough that yield could easily be affected by the rather small design differences. Especially running 6 cores, at blazing speeds with a max memory of 288 GB on the x56[5-8]0 (as opposed to 24 GB on the i7-980x) with two QPI links (instead of one). Not to mention the x5860 supports the 1333 DDR3 (as opposed to the 1066 DDR 3 for the i7-980x) and that just adds more testing differences where yield can be affected. The smallest design changes (especially on a new process) can greatly affect yield.

12 Cores will be great! I just have no idea what to do with 12 cores and 24 threads.

For me, 8 (and 16 threads) is enough.
The comment you quoted was on SP versions, which in this case, 6 core parts are in fact a single processor; the W3680 (i7-980X + ECC Enabled; it's there in the i7 variant, but Disabled). The RAM is DDR3 - 800/1066/1333 BTW (look here (http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47917&code=Intel%c2%ae+Xeon%c2%ae+Processor+W3680+(12M+Cache%2c+3.33+GHz%2c+6.40+GT%2fs+Intel%c2%ae+QPI))) .

The DP versions are different. They've the additional QPI channel you're aware of, and they require a different chipset to use the additional QPI channel.

Only the top processor in either segment can run 1333Mhz, as Intel has set the memory controllers. But Apple locked the '09 systems to 1066 to simplify the parts bin (one memory type). This was proven to be the case by a couple of MR members that stuck in 1333MHz RAM capable processors and tried 1333MHz RAM. The results were, the CPU's worked, but the RAM only ran at 1066. :rolleyes: And unfortunately, there's no financial incentive for them to change this. :(

[zeff]

The comment you quoted was on SP versions, which in this case, 6 core parts are in fact a single processor; the W3680 (i7-980X + ECC Enabled; it's there in the i7 variant, but Disabled). The RAM is DDR3 - 800/1066/1333 BTW (look here (http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47917&code=Intel%c2%ae+Xeon%c2%ae+Processor+W3680+(12M+Cache%2c+3.33+GHz%2c+6.40+GT%2fs+Intel%c2%ae+QPI))) .(

Good point. I was trying to show the difference between the i7-980x and a xeon server line of 6 core processors. I actually completely forgot about the w3680.

Thanks for the info!

[nanofrog]

Good point. I was trying to show the difference between the i7-980x and a xeon server line of 6 core processors. I actually completely forgot about the w3680.

Thanks for the info!
:cool: NP. :)

[rajbonham]

That article is really vague though, and not all of the 32nm parts will be hex core parts either. Some are 4 cores per die, though still made on the 32nm process.

Of the SP parts, only one will be a hex core, and that's the same as the i7-980X with the ECC as Enabled. So that line can produce the Xeon variant, and has been in production longer.

But what it applies to IMO, are the smaller vendors that have to bid on any available stocks that aren't routed to contract buyers (larger vendors, such as Dell, HP and Apple).

Intel will satisfy those contracts first, or likely suffer financial penalties that are written into the contract.

:) Totally agree with all of that.

[Deepshade]

Sandy Bridge already being demoed!.

SJ - talking about moving away from the desktop PC/Truck.

Absolutely no concrete info on an update....and its June already!.

At this rate we'll be lucky to see something in September, if at all!.

[Octobot]

Sandy Bridge already being demoed!.

SJ - talking about moving away from the desktop PC/Truck.

Absolutely no concrete info on an update....and its June already!.

At this rate we'll be lucky to see something in September, if at all!.

Seriously stop being so pessimistic.. Makes me sad to read all this 'worse case scenario' stuff.. You all are writing.

Patience..

[Techhie]

Patience..

We should put all speculation of a Sept. update on hold until the end of the keynote on Monday.

[Houston]

We should put all speculation of a Sept. update on hold until the end of the keynote on Monday.

I guess we can continue it after nothing is announced Monday.

[Techhie]

I guess we can continue it after nothing is announced Monday.

No need to be pessimistic :D

As a good friend of mine would say, "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

[lemonade-maker]

This thread and all the others like it make me yawn.

[rajbonham]

I guess we can continue it after nothing is announced Monday.

You seem really sure that we aren't seeing an updated Mac Pro until late summer. Problem is, I've only heard you say that you "heard from an inside source." Not to be harsh, but no one is going to take that remotely seriously without more evidence of any sort...

[xgman]

No need to be pessimistic :D

As a good friend of mine would say, "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

Well I say . . Nothing is nothing is nothing = no mac pro for us anytime soon. My optimistic tone a few months ago didn't help, so maybe a pessimistic tone will.

[Vylen]

Well I say . . Nothing is nothing is nothing = no mac pro for us anytime soon. My optimistic tone a few months ago didn't help, so maybe a pessimistic tone will.

Exactly. Expect the worst, so when the time comes, you can't be disappointed. Instead, you'll be pleasantly surprised if you're wrong ;)

[Houston]

[QUOTE=rajbonham;10028385]You seem really sure that we aren't seeing an updated Mac Pro until late summer. Problem is, I've only heard you say that you "heard from an inside source." Not to be harsh, but no one is going to take that remotely seriously without more evidence of any sort...[/QUOTE

The information comes from within Apple. Take it at that.
Believe me. I want a Mac Pro worse than you. Been waiting since March. I pray my source is wrong, but I doubt it. The money for a new one is burning a hole in my pocket. :)

[xgman]

[QUOTE=rajbonham;10028385]You seem really sure that we aren't seeing an updated Mac Pro until late summer. Problem is, I've only heard you say that you "heard from an inside source." Not to be harsh, but no one is going to take that remotely seriously without more evidence of any sort...[/QUOTE

The information comes from within Apple. Take it at that.
Believe me. I want a Mac Pro worse than you. Been waiting since March. I pray my source is wrong, but I doubt it. The money for a new one is burning a hole in my pocket. :)

Inside Apple could mean anything so it means nothing. The only people inside Apple to have any real knowledge of this outside ofa few executives are the Mac Pro development team themselves. pretty much 95% of the rest of Apple would not be privy to this. That is probably why we here so little about these sort of things. However, if your source is on the MP Dev team, then you may have some solid info. Otherwise, your source probably is reading the same stories we are. Either way, it is overdue now and will be even more overdue then.

[Techhie]

The information comes from within Apple. Take it at that.
Believe me. I want a Mac Pro worse than you. Been waiting since March. I pray my source is wrong, but I doubt it. The money for a new one is burning a hole in my pocket. :)

I have to ask, how does it not make sense to unveil an outdated product to a primary customer group during one of Apple's only yearly events? Claim part shortages all you want, but its not like there could be a better time or place. Not announcing one would likely put a sour taste in the mouths of the crowd at WWDC, and raise red flags.

One would hope that the attendees at this type of thing aren't as mindless as the Mac World "followers." :rolleyes:

[Houston]

[QUOTE=Houston;10032283]

Inside Apple could mean anything so it means nothing. The only people inside Apple to have any real knowledge of this outside ofa few executives are the Mac Pro development team themselves. pretty much 95% of the rest of Apple would not be privy to this. That is probably why we here so little about these sort of things. However, if your source is on the MP Dev team, then you may have some solid info. Otherwise, your source probably is reading the same stories we are. Either way, it is overdue now and will be even more overdue then.

Unfortunately my source isn't like the rest of us, believe me. He's in a pretty good position to know. I'm just hoping he's wrong.

[ValSalva]

I have to ask, how does it not make sense to unveil an outdated product to a primary customer group during one of Apple's only yearly events? Claim part shortages all you want, but its not like there could be a better time or place. Not announcing one would likely put a sour taste in the mouths of the crowd at WWDC, and raise red flags.

One would hope that the attendees at this type of thing aren't as mindless as the Mac World "followers." :rolleyes:

The only question I'd have about this is: are developer's really the big Mac Pro users? Can't iPad/iPhone development occur just as readily on an iMac or MacBook Pro? I always thought the big users of the Mac Pro were creative professionals, especially rendering video. That being said hopefully WWDC 2010 will be for the Mac Pro what WWDC 2009 was for the MacBook Pro.



Unfortunately my source isn't like the rest of us, believe me. He's in a pretty good position to know. I'm just hoping he's wrong.

Isn't Apple along with being secretive also famous for propagating misinformation?

If it's not Intel supply problems I wish Apple would just release the darn thing already!

[Houston]

The only question I'd have about this is: are developer's really the big Mac Pro users? Can't iPad/iPhone development occur just as readily on an iMac or MacBook Pro? I always thought the big users of the Mac Pro were creative professionals, especially rendering video. That being said hopefully WWDC 2010 will be for the Mac Pro what WWDC 2009 was for the MacBook Pro.



Isn't Apple along with being secretive also famous for propagating misinformation?

If it's not Intel supply problems I wish Apple would just release the darn thing already!

The fact that there is not much smoke, probably means there is no fire.
The only mention recently has been from an analyst who has been proven to know squat. iPhone 4 will probably be the big "news" at WWDC.

[Tonytownsend]

The information comes from within Apple. Take it at that.
Believe me. I want a Mac Pro worse than you. Been waiting since March. I pray my source is wrong, but I doubt it. The money for a new one is burning a hole in my pocket.

Probably some sales person at the Best Buy haha

[Houston]

Probably some sales person at the Best Buy haha

I would say screw you, but that wouldn't be nice, would it?

[deconstruct60]

[QUOTE=Houston;10032283]
The only people inside Apple to have any real knowledge of this outside ofa few executives are the Mac Pro development team themselves. pretty much 95% of the rest of Apple would not be privy to this.

That is probably a little too pessimistic. Seems likely that production design eval units for testing would find their way into use by other teams ( a team build server, beta test workstation , etc. ). Shouldn't the design be tested in "real world" conditions before they release it? Or perhaps not (given the length of time took Apple to acknowledge and fix the audio playback overheating issue. )

Would also be problematical for MP if there aren't very many groups inside Apple that could use one in a "eat your own dogfood" context.


For a known established product there is no good reason to have some "super secret" , stealth lab that only an extremely small number of prototypes are released under penalty of bodily harm if something happens to them. Not that everyone should hear, but also shouldn't be classified ultra top secret either.

[deconstruct60]

I have to ask, how does it not make sense to unveil an outdated product to a primary customer group during one of Apple's only yearly events?

It does not make sense to hoard an outdated product release to a global media dog and pony show when could have released it earlier. If the customer group is so primary they would be likely to buy an overdue product without a big dog and pony show. Apple stated years ago that wanted to decouple product releases to fixed time events. If the release happens to coincide fine, but holding back products for months just for dramatic effect.... that's goofy.


Apple dropped the MacBook without even a press release. Steve Jobs is repeatedly quoted waxing on about "PC" era being so "over" and "backward looking". The MacOS X share of WWDC content is chopped down. etc. etc. etc. Folks only setting themselves for exaggerated disappointment by trying to couple MacPro's to being essential WWDC coverage. Last year the MBPro's got stage time in part because only up against the iPhone. This year it is going to be iPhone + iPad + iAds + iPhoneOS4 + maybe something explaining Lala shutdown + etc etc.
What time slot is going to be left for Mac anything. Apple is not trying to be balanced here.




It makes sense to intro the iPhone now because it wasn't ready much earlier. Apple allows itself a year (or a bit more) to drop a new iPhone each year. It is time and yeah for now they are purposely synching that system development to this specific event.

[surferfromuk]

The WWDC is all about iPhone and probably a dash of iPad. I'd be utterly astounded if they risked confusing the focus to derail their biggest most successful product launch for what is essentially an exceptionally niche product.

I personally think were going to see an all new 64-bit Final Cut Studio + Mac Pro combo launch in September.

[Octobot]

At the very least I cross my fingers for a word on new MP.. w/ projected date.
Other wise it will come, when it comes.

We'll adapt.

[Houston]

At the very least I cross my fingers for a word on new MP.. w/ projected date.
Other wise it will come, when it comes.

We'll adapt.

What else can we do? Apple will NEVER tip their hand for an upcoming product.
That is for sure. If there is nothing next week, I just hope it's no later than September.

[the editor]

its starting to look as if the "only" accurate post on mac pro release date is going to be the one from the french apple forum where they claimed to have gotten the news from someone on the CS5 Development team saying the MP will "not" bet released before October.

If they would have been planing to release it at WWDC we'd have known by now or atleast there would be some rumors floating around...now there is absolutely "nothing", point blank. There is not 1 word about the MP except the fact that they are not planing to end the MP line.

Maybe....just maybe and at best, we might see a small price drop on the current MP's till the updated versions come out, just to calm the crowd...but even that i strongly doubt since its not something i see Apple doing.

I'm guessing it had nothing to do with CPU shortage/intel...

1) i think at this point its not interesting for Apple to come up with an updated machine, its going to be in a price range that would be nuts even by Apples standards.
2) Apple has shifted its focus mainly on the best-sellers. Ipad, Macbook, Macbook Pro. because of this there simply was no time to, at the moment come up with a Mac Pro that is worthy of the name "PRO", the machine is just not ready, simple.

[gundam789]

This is really starting to annoy me at this point =/ We are waiting for a 2010 Mac Pro half way into 2010 already?
If it is released in october then it will better be a 2011 :confused:
I have been waiting for a long time and I'm tired of it and i find Apple very unprofessional.
This is no way to do business or treat your Mac pro costumers , and keep advertising an outdated overpriced mac pro on their website.
I just recently went to BMW to buy a brand new M5 here in Italy and i was told that the new 2011 model will be released and the 2010 model is not been sold anymore. ( that's how a serious company conducts itself)
I see people keep posting that Apple will abandon the Mac pro line and concentrate on the Ipad ,iphone etc... huh? Are they insane?
I tought Apple was a computer/software company not a gadget company.
The rest of people saying they will not announce the mac pro at macworld because it will strafe the attention of people away from the iphone , are we serious?
Apple thinks i can not make my own mind up on what my priorities are? This is an insult sorry.
And if Steve Job thinks the PC desktop era is over i think he needs to retire , maybe Apple desktop era is over lol.
If he thinks i will be computing and browsing on a 7 inch screen cause it's COOL he needs a reality check.
Actually i HATE browsing on my iphone it's the most annoying thing ever.
At this point i don't think we are going to see a 2010 mac pro , apple just skipped a year , it just makes no sense to realease a 2010 model this late.
They will probably wait till the end of summer and release a 2011 around october/november wich will make sense and if they have any brains left in the Mac Pro department at Apple they should drop the prices on the current 2009 models, or do they think that their PC are so special that even when outdated they are worth more then up-to-date PC's?

[surferfromuk]

This is really starting to annoy me at this point =/ We are waiting for a 2010 Mac Pro half way into 2010 already?
If it is released in october then it will better be a 2011 :confused:
I have been waiting for a long time and I'm tired of it and i find Apple very unprofessional.
This is no way to do business or treat your Mac pro costumers , and keep advertising an outdated overpriced mac pro on their website.
I just recently went to BMW to buy a brand new M5 here in Italy and i was told that the new 2011 model will be released and the 2010 model is not been sold anymore. ( that's how a serious company conducts itself)
I see people keep posting that Apple will abandon the Mac pro line and concentrate on the Ipad ,iphone etc... huh? Are they insane?
I tought Apple was a computer/software company not a gadget company.
The rest of people saying they will not announce the mac pro at macworld because it will strafe the attention of people away from the iphone , are we serious?
Apple thinks i can not make my own mind up on what my priorities are? This is an insult sorry.
And if Steve Job thinks the PC desktop era is over i think he needs to retire , maybe Apple desktop era is over lol.
If he thinks i will be computing and browsing on a 7 inch screen cause it's COOL he needs a reality check.
Actually i HATE browsing on my iphone it's the most annoying thing ever.
At this point i don't think we are going to see a 2010 mac pro , apple just skipped a year , it just makes no sense to realease a 2010 model this late.
They will probably wait till the end of summer and release a 2011 around october/november wich will make sense and if they have any brains left in the Mac Pro department at Apple they should drop the prices on the current 2009 models, or do they think that their PC are so special that even when outdated they are worth more then up-to-date PC's?

Don't take this the wrong way, but there is absolutely nothing stopping you purchasing and working on the current model other than some insatiable desire for the absolute very latest tech - which is an offshoot of the PC home-build Hackintosh phenomena. This is illusory at best, since living with that mindset means it will immediately be outdated within about 6 months anyway.

The reality between an '09 and whatever '010 arrives (whenever it arrives - whatever it is) is a 20% in performance (and perceived cost value) - and many dispute even that much - and so in terms of a working professional this is not even a days work!

That basic fact is why I am convinced that 80% of the speculation in here comes from non-working professionals and is very much a consumer perspective who must always have the very latest thing at the very lowest cost. Apple has NEVER played that game.

[Octobot]

Here's one last uplifting article.. till we find out the truth next week.

http://gizmodo.com/5553902/wwdc-here-comes-the-new-iphone-but-what-else
----
Will there be a Mac Pro upgrade?
The Mac Pro story is essentially the same as the MacBook Air's: overdue for a refresh, rumors swirling, processor delays—in this case Intel's hexacore Xeon CPUs—resolved. So we'll give it the same odds of happening next week.

Probability: 80%.
----

Thing is.. it is referencing a Macrumors article ;)

[Octobot]

this is not even a days work!


This.. give or take a few days is true.
+
If your a professional.. you will adapt. If not, go play with your other toys in the mean time. ;)

(In my case a MP is my means to efficient work prod. as well as my "toy")

[Deepshade]

Don't take this the wrong way, but there is absolutely nothing stopping you purchasing and working on the current model other than some insatiable desire for the absolute very latest tech - which is an offshoot of the PC home-build Hackintosh phenomena.

The reality between an '09 and whatever '010 arrives (whenever it arrives - whatever it is) is a 20% in performance (and perceived cost value) - and many dispute even that much - and so in terms of a working professional this is not even a days work!

That basic fact is why I am convinced that 80% of the speculation in here comes from non-working professionals

a) We purchased as needed - ended up with PPCs that we out of date, literally a couple of months later.

b) Agreed - one model down is no great performance gap - any more and its usually pretty significant.

c) Happily working in the design business for over 20 years.

[fearoftigers]

Don't take this the wrong way, but there is absolutely nothing stopping you purchasing and working on the current model other than some insatiable desire for the absolute very latest tech - which is an offshoot of the PC home-build Hackintosh phenomena. This is illusory at best, since living with that mindset means it will immediately be outdated within about 6 months anyway.

The reality between an '09 and whatever '010 arrives (whenever it arrives - whatever it is) is a 20% in performance (and perceived cost value) - and many dispute even that much - and so in terms of a working professional this is not even a days work!

That basic fact is why I am convinced that 80% of the speculation in here comes from non-working professionals and is very much a consumer perspective who must always have the very latest thing at the very lowest cost. Apple has NEVER played that game.

I think the semantics of 'professional' aren't really worth getting into.

It just makes sense to buy an up-to-date machine whatever you're going to use it for.

There seems to be a view on these boards that professional users' opinions are more valid.

What about the semi-pro, the enthusiast etc?

Time to come off your high horse I'd say.

[xgman]

This is really starting to annoy me at this point =/ We are waiting for a 2010 Mac Pro half way into 2010 already?
If it is released in october then it will better be a 2011 :confused:


Exactly. Well nontheless, macrumors this morning said "they have been hearing wispers about a MP release soon" so at least it is being thought off still.

[bzollinger]

I think the semantics of 'professional' aren't really worth getting into.

It just makes sense to buy an up-to-date machine whatever you're going to use it for.

There seems to be a view on these boards that professional users' opinions are more valid.

What about the semi-pro, the enthusiast etc?

Time to come off your high horse I'd say.

+1

Go ahead all you professionals and buy out all the remaining MPs. After all it's just a days work right?:p

That might help us meger, semi-pros and enthusists buy a machine that is halfway up to date and somewhat close to the value of it's actual cost.:eek:

I don't make money w/ my G5 but my $$ is as good as a pro's when it comes to buying a new computer.

It's time for an update. My G5 needs an update, but I'm not going to give Apple $3000-3500 for an outdated (in every meaning of the word in regards to the fast moving computer hardware industry, which Apple is a part of regardless of what anyone thinks).

I can wait, but I'd rather Apple gets with the program!

[superpalmtree]

+1

Go ahead all you professionals and buy out all the remaining MPs. After all it's just a days work right?:p

That might help us meger, semi-pros and enthusists buy a machine that is halfway up to date and somewhat close to the value of it's actual cost.:eek:

I don't make money w/ my G5 but my $$ is as good as a pro's when it comes to buying a new computer.

It's time for an update. My G5 needs an update, but I'm not going to give Apple $3000-3500 for an outdated (in every meaning of the word in regards to the fast moving computer hardware industry, which Apple is a part of regardless of what anyone thinks).

I can wait, but I'd rather Apple gets with the program!

Exactly!

Your post was so accurate! I agree, let the so called Pro's buy out the remaining inventory of overpriced outdated crap. I think some of these Mac Vets are just jealous and want to see other people make the same stupid mistake they did. :D

[surferfromuk]

I think the semantics of 'professional' aren't really worth getting into.

It just makes sense to buy an up-to-date machine whatever you're going to use it for.

There seems to be a view on these boards that professional users' opinions are more valid.

What about the semi-pro, the enthusiast etc?

Time to come off your high horse I'd say.

Don't think so - it's a damn fine horse and I'm very happy riding it.

If you examine my post you will see it was addressed TO and for the context of a working professional for whom performance is essential and buying the latest kit is always desirable - do you really think I preferred to buy last years model? - of course it makes sense to buy the latest and the best, but where the expediency of business forces your hand you have no choice, then realistically its not the end of the world.

Consumer purchases are weighed on different scales. Anyway, all that aside, if a new MP comes out next week you can feel real good about yourself for having the freedom to wait, and you can revel in the fact that I got an MP last month that is now horribly outdated and you got a brand spanking new '10 one, right?.

Feel better now?

:cool:

[superpalmtree]

Don't think so - it's a damn fine horse and I'm very happy riding it.

If you examine my post you will see it was addressed TO and for the context of a working professional for whom performance is essential and buying the latest kit is always desirable - do you really think I preferred to buy last years model? - of course it makes sense to buy the latest and the best, but where the expediency of business forces your hand you have no choice, then realistically its not the end of the world.

Consumer purchases are weighed on different scales. Anyway, all that aside, if a new MP comes out next week you can feel real good about yourself for waiting and revel in the fact that I got an MP last month that is now horribly outdated and you got a brand spanking new '10 one, right?.

Feel better now?

:cool:

Wow -- someone is bitter about buying outdated tech last month! lol

[the editor]

If you need a powerfull and upgradable Mac system the only thing for you to do at this moment is buy the current setup at "more" than double the price from what the hardware is worth, if thats not ripping of people than i don't know what is...Apple is becoming a real ********* company, hate the fact that i invested so much in Mac-based software and type library's, if this wasn't the case it would be without a doubt "bye bye Apple"

[surferfromuk]

Wow -- someone is bitter about buying outdated tech last month! lol

Damn right I am! :D

[nanofrog]

I posted this in another thread, but it's applicable with the most recent posts in this one. ;)

Where I see the "divide" is between larger entities (true corporations) vs. idependent pros or perhaps with SMB's in some cases. As where a corporate entity will have the budgets to get equipment when needed, independents in particular (assuming they do have a system that's at least usable), have a much harder time setting asside the funds over time to make sure that a future budget is in place. There's also the aspect of a leaner operation, so the value portion of the equation is more likely to differ for them (i.e. not on a fixed MTBR as a result of not having a dedicated equipment budget cycle).

SMB's can fall either way IMO, as some are just as undercapitalized as independents. They can still get work done, but haven't been in a position to be able to set aside a proper equipment budget.

For the large entities, they do have such budgets in place, and it's less of a problem, if at all (what it should be). They're after an immediate solution that will earn money (i.e. more jobs coming their way, so they hire new personnel to take on the additional workload and obtain equipment for them).

From what I've noticed on MR, most of the members seem to be independents. I could be way off, but the questions and posted situations indicate independents (some are pros, others students that will become pros).

Just my take... :p

I didn't mention the enthusiast user, but they'd fall into the same catagory as an independent pro and students.

Some independents can fall more into the entity category if they've the ability to set equipment budgets (and keep depositing funds for that purpose) in order to fulfill a replacement cycle as well as cover expansion (i.e. new contract, and both new personnel and equipment are necessary to complete it).

Neither POV is "wrong", just from a different perspective, and is primarily related to the availability of funds = significant perception difference of system value.

[Apple Corps]

[QUOTE=bzollinger;10039330]+1

...It's time for an update. My G5 needs an update, but I'm not going to give Apple $3000-3500 for an outdated (in every meaning of the word in regards to the fast moving computer hardware industry, which Apple is a part of regardless of what anyone thinks).....

You are running an ancient G5 and bitching about the current Mac Pros :confused:

[TennisandMusic]

Man, the "pro" arguments are getting silly. It is truly a case where Apple's marketing has worked wonders on so many. Brand a machine as a "pro" machine and people automatically assume it's ok to overpay, or that only "pro's" opinions matter. What is a pro anyway? Someone who makes money on their computer work? In that case I am absolutely a pro. It seems like you have to be editing feature films to be taken seriously around here. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

I have news for a number of people here. The Mac Pro is a really standard machine. There is nothing special about it, whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zip. You don't need to be a city planner, or Francis Ford Coppola to get proper use out of it. You really don't even need to do much more than basic consumer HD video editing to push it.

So it's quite alright for everyone to have an opinion on it's value and functionality. Certain people need to stop treating others as if they are untalented idiots who have no "right" to think the current MP is a bad value.

[nanofrog]

You are running an ancient G5 and bitching about the current Mac Pros :confused:
The existing models would be a significant improvement over the G5, but if the system need isn't for say a contract in hand as you had, it comes back to perception of value. Particularly when compared to the hardware available from other vendors (hardware comparison only, not hardware + software + training).

But if a user is tied to the OS X environment, hardware isn't the only consideration. Some may be willing and able to switch to either Windows or Linux (presuming it's the better overall system for the intended usage, and funds are available for everything involved). But this likely isn't the case for everyone, particularly independents, as they've usually much more limited budgets available. Software and training can easily out cost the hardware used.

[Apple Corps]

And other people need to stop "positioning" those who DO purchase a current MP as idiots, ill informed, no justification.....

[bzollinger]

[QUOTE=bzollinger;10039330]+1

...It's time for an update. My G5 needs an update, but I'm not going to give Apple $3000-3500 for an outdated (in every meaning of the word in regards to the fast moving computer hardware industry, which Apple is a part of regardless of what anyone thinks).....

You are running an ancient G5 and bitching about the current Mac Pros :confused:

No, I'm bitching about the current Mac Pros hardware/price ratio!!:mad: I'm surprised you didn't grasp that from my post.:confused:

I'm not bitching about what the current MPs can do. I know that a current MP would smoke my G5, but that's not the point.

[snsr]

The Mac Pro is a really standard machine. There is nothing special about it, whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

It's actually not based on a standard desktop platform; ECC RAM and Xeon processors mean the Pro is a workstation/server class machine. It also has what is likely the most well-designed enclosure I've seen.

[nanofrog]

Man, the "pro" arguments are getting silly. It is truly a case where Apple's marketing has worked wonders on so many. Brand a machine as a "pro" machine and people automatically assume it's ok to overpay, or that only "pro's" opinions matter.
To me, the real sticking point is the fact user's are tied to OS X based software. Apple is fully aware of this, and taking advantage of the situation.

It's not ethical, but it's business (ethics haven't anything to do with it, only what they can/can't get away with within applicable laws).

Those earning a living, particularly video/graphics work, can find themselves in a situation where a contract is in-hand, and the purchase of an existing system is justified as they'll make money (assuming they've not under-bid to the point they'll actually see a loss).

For independents/students/enthusiasts (typically having low budgets), this is a much harder pill to swallow. They want more value in their systems, and is reasonable from their POV.

Apple however, will do what's in their best interest. If that means adding value by lowering prices,... GREAT. But going by recent history, that won't happen.

The best we can hope for IMO, is the added value provided by Intel (i.e. higher clock speeds for the same/similar money as the CPU's in the '09 MP's).

[TennisandMusic]

It's actually not based on a standard desktop platform; ECC RAM and Xeon processors mean the Pro is a workstation/server class machine. It also has what is likely the most well-designed enclosure I've seen.

The enclosure is pretty "standard" these days, and actually more difficult to do some things than a normal box. The separation of the cpu's and ram is a bit silly IMO, and make the whole thing maybe a little more clunky. There are also plenty of reports where the drive sleds are said to not be very high quality etc.

The Xeon proc in the quad core is the exact same chip as the i7 920, just rebranded. ECC ram is not really needed by the vast vast majority of people, and actually brings slower performance than non ECC ram to the table (though I doubt people really notice this). If someone using non ECC ram can tell me the last time they had an error in RAM, and it was a situation where ECC ram would have saved them, I'd love to hear about it. ;)

There really is nothing special about the Mac Pro. I could build a machine that beat up on it pretty bad, in an hour, even just by going down to Fry's and buying all high quality off the shelf parts. It would be significantly cheaper as well.

I'm not saying they are bad machines. They are just nothing special, especially for the price. The entire point was that the "pro" moniker is purely a marketing thing.

[G4DP]

It's actually not based on a standard desktop platform; ECC RAM and Xeon processors mean the Pro is a workstation/server class machine.

The only thing workstation class in the 2009 MacPro is the Xeon. You do not use ECC RAM in a decent quality server. You should use what was in the 2006 and the 2008 models. Hard drives that are slower than paint drying? Really server class.

There is a massive difference between a workstation and a server.

[VirtualRain]

I suspect anyone waiting for a radical correction in the value of the Mac Pro pricing will be disappointed. I could see a base model drop in price a couple-hundred bucks, but everyone here will feel it's too stripped down to be worthwhile. Other models might get a few-hundred MHz increase in speed for the same money, and certainly we will see the 6/12-cores debut, but likely at prices that make the 2009 look like a bargain. I hope I'm wrong, but Apple can and does price on value, not cost.

[TennisandMusic]

To me, the real sticking point is the fact user's are tied to OS X based software. Apple is fully aware of this, and taking advantage of the situation.

It's not ethical, but it's business (ethics haven't anything to do with it, only what they can/can't get away with within applicable laws).

Those earning a living, particularly video/graphics work, can find themselves in a situation where a contract is in-hand, and the purchase of an existing system is justified as they'll make money (assuming they've not under-bid to the point they'll actually see a loss).

For independents/students/enthusiasts (typically having low budgets), this is a much harder pill to swallow. They want more value in their systems, and is reasonable from their POV.

Apple however, will do what's in their best interest. If that means adding value by lowering prices,... GREAT. But going by recent history, that won't happen.

The best we can hope for IMO, is the added value provided by Intel (i.e. higher clock speeds for the same/similar money as the CPU's in the '09 MP's).

I also don't buy the idea though, that it's ONLY an issue for independents/students/enthusiasts, as so many say here. I work for a pretty high powered place, that works with the US and Mexican govt., NASA, the EPA, NSF blah blah blah.

I can tell you we don't want to buy a Mac Pro (I would gladly use one but they won't get one for me). We strictly buy PC's, and it's basically because of price, performance, and software. Spending twice as much for the same machine IS a big deal to even highly organized "professional" groups.

I would be wary of buying into the sort of stereotyping and categorization that users here like to constantly espouse regarding Mac Pros.

[TennisandMusic]

I suspect anyone waiting for a radical correction in the value of the Mac Pro pricing will be disappointed. I could see a base model drop in price a couple-hundred bucks, but everyone here will feel it's too stripped down to be worthwhile. Other models might get a few-hundred MHz increase in speed for the same money, and certainly we will see the 6/12-cores debut, but likely at prices that make the 2009 look like a bargain. I hope I'm wrong, but Apple can and does price on value, not cost.

All they would really need to do is not cripple the ram (i.e. triple channel with six slots), add usb3, offer a decent video card as standard and keep the price the same. That's it. I would gladly "overpay" for a solid mac pro. I won't be a sucker though.

[surferfromuk]

Man, the "pro" arguments are getting silly. It is truly a case where Apple's marketing has worked wonders on so many. Brand a machine as a "pro" machine and people automatically assume it's ok to overpay, or that only "pro's" opinions matter. What is a pro anyway? Someone who makes money on their computer work? In that case I am absolutely a pro. It seems like you have to be editing feature films to be taken seriously around here. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

I have news for a number of people here. The Mac Pro is a really standard machine. There is nothing special about it, whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zip. You don't need to be a city planner, or Francis Ford Coppola to get proper use out of it. You really don't even need to do much more than basic consumer HD video editing to push it.

So it's quite alright for everyone to have an opinion on it's value and functionality. Certain people need to stop treating others as if they are untalented idiots who have no "right" to think the current MP is a bad value.

I don't know where this 'untalented' idea has come from - certainly isn't from me - better post up the quote on that one since there's some rather extraordinary allegations here.

To cover this again - since it's evidently not clear - the difference between professionals and consumers IS;

Consumers HAVE a choice as to when they buy. They have the fabulous luxury of sitting it out for 1 to 6,7,8,9 to X months until the machine they are willing to buy is released. The greatest consequence for them is they have to carry on surfing the net and watching media on their current computer. That doesn't negate their relevance, their opinion or their value or worth as owners and users of Mac Pros - it just means they have the freedom to wait. Most consumers are just miffed about having to wait.

Professionals who have paying gigs reach a point when updating is no longer a choice - it has to be done - and they VERY RELUCTANTLY buy a current Mac Pro, knowing full well there will be a new one in a few months.

[beaker7]

The Xeon proc in the quad core is the exact same chip as the i7 920, just rebranded.


Xeons have dual QPI to allow them to work in 2 socket configs. Quite similar? Yes. "Exact?" No. This is Intel's work though, not Apple.

[beaker7]

You do not use ECC RAM in a decent quality server.


You don't use ECC RAM in your servers? :eek:

[Houston]

The enclosure is pretty "standard" these days, and actually more difficult to do some things than a normal box. The separation of the cpu's and ram is a bit silly IMO, and make the whole thing maybe a little more clunky. There are also plenty of reports where the drive sleds are said to not be very high quality etc.

The Xeon proc in the quad core is the exact same chip as the i7 920, just rebranded. ECC ram is not really needed by the vast vast majority of people, and actually brings slower performance than non ECC ram to the table (though I doubt people really notice this). If someone using non ECC ram can tell me the last time they had an error in RAM, and it was a situation where ECC ram would have saved them, I'd love to hear about it. ;)

There really is nothing special about the Mac Pro. I could build a machine that beat up on it pretty bad, in an hour, even just by going down to Fry's and buying all high quality off the shelf parts. It would be significantly cheaper as well.

I'm not saying they are bad machines. They are just nothing special, especially for the price. The entire point was that the "pro" moniker is purely a marketing thing.

So you could build a computer that from parts from Fry's that would boot Snow Leopard and perform better than current Mac Pro?

[telequest]

didn't mention the enthusiast user, but they'd fall into the same catagory as an independent pro and students.

Some independents can fall more into the entity category if they've the ability to set equipment budgets (and keep depositing funds for that purpose) in order to fulfill a replacement cycle as well as cover expansion (i.e. new contract, and both new personnel and equipment are necessary to complete it).

Neither POV is "wrong", just from a different perspective, and is primarily related to the availability of funds = significant perception difference of system value.

Thanks Nano for your sane voice on this.

I'm a pro user in that I make a living using my Mac Pro – primarily video production, using Final Cut Studio and Adobe CS. But that doesn't lead me to poo-poo the views of enthusiasts, gamers, students or anybody spending time using the platform for whatever they do. I think we're all interested in getting a good value for whatever money we fork over to Apple for whatever reason we do it.

My take on the delay in the 2010 release is this: If my company got a job where our aging G5's would no longer cut it, of course we'd buy whatever technology is currently available to get the job done. No rational person, "pro" or not, would do any different. But given the iffy value of the 2009s, we'd likely go the refurb route if the right machines were available.

But at this moment, the exact date that we upgrade is discretionary. And we're looking to make an investment that will last about 5 years or so. Buying a technology released in March 2009 (1.25 years ago) means giving up about 25 percent of our best-guess useful life for the kind of work we expect to be doing ... vs a new model based on today's technology. And if we can get a machine that's 20 percent faster by waiting a bit more, that means a machine running 20 percent faster for the next 5 years. That adds up to real time and real money.

I don't really care about bragging rights about having the very latest, since for years 2 through 5 it won't be.

Anyway, here I sit, money in hand, but not about to spend it on last year's machine (or maybe 2008's) unless I get a really good reason to do so.

[nanofrog]

I also don't buy the idea though, that it's ONLY an issue for independents/students/enthusiasts, as so many say here. I work for a pretty high powered place, that works with the US and Mexican govt., NASA, the EPA, NSF blah blah blah.

I can tell you we don't want to buy a Mac Pro (I would gladly use one but they won't get one for me). We strictly buy PC's, and it's basically because of price, performance, and software. Spending twice as much for the same machine IS a big deal to even highly organized "professional" groups.

I would be wary of buying into the sort of stereotyping and categorization that users here like to constantly espouse regarding Mac Pros.
The fact your company uses PC's and related software, actually falls in line with what I'm used to seeing.

Larger entities are more likely to upgrade on MTBR cycles rather than waiting it out for a specific system (though this does happen at times to fulfill a specific need). But they have to watch the bottom line carefully, and MP's and OS X based software is a hard sell (it does cost more, and there are fewer choices).

I even see where the catagorization aspect can have limitations (there are certainly going to be situations where there are exceptions). And most I can think of off the top of my head, are financially based.

Where the argument sticks however, is in a pure OS X environment. Now there's no choice but to use an MP in such a situation (corporate IT depts. tend not to like mixed environments where a MP would coexist with PC based systems, and certainly wouldn't touch a hackintosh = why your company won't get you an MP).

For those on fixed budgets (and the funds are much more limited), such as independents,... , the current line of MP's are a hard sell when you think about the value the '06 - '08 systems provided (software costs balance out, given it's the same on both sides of the equation for a specific user).

[nanofrog]

Xeons have dual QPI to allow them to work in 2 socket configs. Quite similar? Yes. "Exact?" No. This is Intel's work though, not Apple.
In the case of a Quad core Xeon, they are the same except that the ECC functionality is ENABLED on the Xeon variant (both have a single QPI link).

The DP parts have a 2nd QPI link, as it's necessary to connect the 2x chips together. Otherwise, there's no other way for them to communicate with one another (different architecture than the FSB based parts of previous years).

You don't use ECC RAM in your servers? :eek:
Not all do (if it's actually possible as a means of saving costs), but most do. Not because it was desired that way, but because there's no choice (i.e. '06 - '08 MP's HAD to use ECC, as that was the only memory that was possible to be used). Intel designed the Xeon line that way.

The Nehalem architecture changed that. It can actually run non ECC DDR3 if desired.

So you could build a computer that from parts from Fry's that would boot Snow Leopard and perform better than current Mac Pro?
It's possible.

Check out sites such as insanelymac.com, and see for yourself. ;) That's not to say a hack is a viable solution for everyone however, as the user is responsible for any and all support. Which truly means they have to have both the time and skills to do so.

Not an attractive scenario if the system is used for earning an income.

Thanks Nano for your sane voice on this.

I'm a pro user in that I make a living using my Mac Pro – primarily video production, using Final Cut Studio and Adobe CS. But that doesn't lead me to poo-poo the views of enthusiasts, gamers, students or anybody spending time using the platform for whatever they do. I think we're all interested in getting a good value for whatever money we fork over to Apple for whatever reason we do it.

My take on the delay in the 2010 release is this: If my company got a job where our aging G5's would no longer cut it, of course we'd buy whatever technology is currently available to get the job done. No rational person, "pro" or not, would do any different. But given the iffy value of the 2009s, we'd likely go the refurb route if the right machines were available.

But at this moment, the exact date that we upgrade is discretionary. And we're looking to make an investment that will last about 5 years or so. Buying a technology released in March 2009 (1.25 years ago) means giving up about 25 percent of our best-guess useful life for the kind of work we expect to be doing ... vs a new model based on today's technology. And if we can get a machine that's 20 percent faster by waiting a bit more, that means a machine running 20 percent faster for the next 5 years. That adds up to real time and real money.

I don't really care about bragging rights about having the very latest, since for years 2 through 5 it won't be.

Anyway, here I sit, money in hand, but not about to spend it on last year's machine (or maybe 2008's) unless I get a really good reason to do so.
Sanity and perspective was the real goal of the post, not trying to force-fit/pidgeon-hole users into categories.

I see it as a matter of perspective, which results from a combination of situation and available budgets. As it happens, the 2 category method made sense as a means to explain that (category count is based on observations of posts here on MR).

[bzollinger]

I don't know where this 'untalented' idea has come from - certainly isn't from me - better post up the quote on that one since there's some rather extraordinary allegations here.

To cover this again - since it's evidently not clear - the difference between professionals and consumers IS;

Consumers HAVE a choice as to when they buy. They have the fabulous luxury of sitting it out for 1 to 6,7,8,9 to X months until the machine they are willing to buy is released. The greatest consequence for them is they have to carry on surfing the net and watching media on their current computer. That doesn't negate their relevance, their opinion or their value or worth as owners and users of Mac Pros - it just means they have the freedom to wait. Most consumers are just miffed about having to wait.

Professionals who have paying gigs reach a point when updating is no longer a choice - it has to be done - and they VERY RELUCTANTLY buy a current Mac Pro, knowing full well there will be a new one in a few months.

Nice dig on the non-pros surferfromuk. Cause if you're not making money with your MP, all you do is surf (sarcasm intended)!

Kind of a funny comment considering your username has surf in it.:rolleyes:

[bzollinger]

To me, the real sticking point is the fact user's are tied to OS X based software. Apple is fully aware of this, and taking advantage of the situation.

It's not ethical, but it's business (ethics haven't anything to do with it, only what they can/can't get away with within applicable laws).

Those earning a living, particularly video/graphics work, can find themselves in a situation where a contract is in-hand, and the purchase of an existing system is justified as they'll make money (assuming they've not under-bid to the point they'll actually see a loss).

For independents/students/enthusiasts (typically having low budgets), this is a much harder pill to swallow. They want more value in their systems, and is reasonable from their POV.

Apple however, will do what's in their best interest. If that means adding value by lowering prices,... GREAT. But going by recent history, that won't happen.

The best we can hope for IMO, is the added value provided by Intel (i.e. higher clock speeds for the same/similar money as the CPU's in the '09 MP's).

+1 on having $$ tied up in OSX software!

This is a significant expense for the independants/students/enthusiasts.

My main true use for needing a fast computer comes from working with 18MP RAW files and HD video clips from my dslr. Because of that I've got quite a bit of $$ tied up in photoshop and lightroom. I don't want to have rebuy all the software I've purchased over the years..

[TennisandMusic]

Xeons have dual QPI to allow them to work in 2 socket configs. Quite similar? Yes. "Exact?" No. This is Intel's work though, not Apple.

Not the quad core model.

[surferfromuk]

Nice dig on the non-pros surferfromuk. Cause if you're not making money with your MP, all you do is surf (sarcasm intended)!

Kind of a funny comment considering your username has surf in it.:rolleyes:

How is that a dig? I suppose I could create a massive list of things if you want. Seems like people are just looking for a rumble in this forum right now.

Quote myself ;

That doesn't negate their relevance, their opinion or their value or worth as owners and users of Mac Pros - it just means they have the freedom to wait. Most consumers are just miffed about having to wait.

Tell me is that a wrong statement?

I am a consumer too you know - I do know the frustrations of waiting for tech gear, of buying gear that is just replaced the moment you buy it etc etc...

So I didn't list the thousands of things you can do on a computer - woopsy me!

Perhaps I should dress all my posts up in pretty little pink bows so as not to offend anyone who seemingly is looking for something to get offended about.

Bl**dy cabin fever is setting in with these forums right now.

[TennisandMusic]

So you could build a computer that from parts from Fry's that would boot Snow Leopard and perform better than current Mac Pro?

Well I'm not familiar with Hackintosh, but I'm sure it could be done, so yes. I was merely speaking from an overall performance standpoint, with Windows 7. Outside of some specific software, Windows does everything OSX does, and more actually. I would prefer to use OSX, but as a "pro" I do what I need to to get the job done. That's what makes someone a pro; The results they get, not the tools they use.

[Apple Corps]

+1 on having $$ tied up in OSX software!

...Because of that I've got quite a bit of $$ tied up in photoshop and lightroom. I don't want to have rebuy all the software I've purchased over the years..

How much does it cost to transfer your PS and LR software license to Windows? Is that an alternative?

[Apple Corps]

What does "Pro" mean?

For me, and others I suspect, we could drop the "Pro" label - call it the Mac Expandable or Mac Configureable - processor speed is only 1 of many considerations.

[surferfromuk]

+1 on having $$ tied up in OSX software!

This is a significant expense for the independants/students/enthusiasts.

My main true use for needing a fast computer comes from working with 18MP RAW files and HD video clips from my dslr. Because of that I've got quite a bit of $$ tied up in photoshop and lightroom. I don't want to have rebuy all the software I've purchased over the years..

Wouldn't the price difference in the 'overpriced' Mac Pro's balance this out? I mean people are always saying you can buy a PC for half the price - that would allow you to crossgrade off the Mac.

Just saying ( not looking for a fight!) :)

[bzollinger]

How much does it cost to transfer your PS and LR software license to Windows? Is that an alternative?

As far as I know there isn't a transfer option. You'd have to re-buy, then maybe sell your Mac software, but since CS5 is out and LR3 is on the way, I don't know how much $$ you could get.

[TennisandMusic]

I don't know where this 'untalented' idea has come from - certainly isn't from me - better post up the quote on that one since there's some rather extraordinary allegations here.

To cover this again - since it's evidently not clear - the difference between professionals and consumers IS;

Consumers HAVE a choice as to when they buy. They have the fabulous luxury of sitting it out for 1 to 6,7,8,9 to X months until the machine they are willing to buy is released. The greatest consequence for them is they have to carry on surfing the net and watching media on their current computer. That doesn't negate their relevance, their opinion or their value or worth as owners and users of Mac Pros - it just means they have the freedom to wait. Most consumers are just miffed about having to wait.

Professionals who have paying gigs reach a point when updating is no longer a choice - it has to be done - and they VERY RELUCTANTLY buy a current Mac Pro, knowing full well there will be a new one in a few months.

I never accused you of being the "one" to inspire my initial post. It's been something that's been observed for months on this board.

The difference between pros and consumers, is their skill and talent level, and the results they produce. Not the tools they use, or when they "have" to buy. Can you name a situation in which a top pro is using such outdated equipment that he absolutely HAS to upgrade and is strong armed into buying a low value machine? Maybe if someone's G5 dies? But then if he's a "pro" via your definition, why is he burning up so much of his time using such an outdated machine? It would be far more economically viable to get a faster machine and get more work done, thereby increasing revenue.

I would imagine someone absolutely NEEDING to upgrade would fall more into the hobbyist, or consumer space, since their time isn't valuable enough to keep up to date. Of course, that's total conjecture, but it does have plenty of reasoning behind it.

[TennisandMusic]

As far as I know there isn't a transfer option. You'd have to re-buy, then maybe sell your Mac software, but since CS5 is out and LR3 is on the way, I don't know how much $$ you could get.

Actually, based on more than one report, you can call them and have them transfer your license for free.

[bzollinger]

Wouldn't the price difference in the 'overpriced' Mac Pro's balance this out? I mean people are always saying you can buy a PC for half the price - that would allow you to crossgrade off the Mac.

Just saying ( not looking for a fight!) :)

I've considered that, and it's a semi-good point.

However I see the problem as, now I'm switching platforms (would rather stay w/ OSX), buying redundant software (rarely a good idea), and I'm still paying about what I would for an overpriced outdated Mac Pro! Damn :apple:!

Cabin fever = waiting for new MP

[bzollinger]

Actually, based on more than one report, you can call them and have them transfer your license for free.

Really! I have never heard of that. I might have to follow up on that, if nothing else out of curiosity. Thanks for the possibility!

[surferfromuk]

I never accused you of being the "one" to inspire my initial post. It's been something that's been observed for months on this board.

The difference between pros and consumers, is their skill and talent level, and the results they produce. Not the tools they use, or when they "have" to buy. Can you name a situation in which a top pro is using such outdated equipment that he absolutely HAS to upgrade and is strong armed into buying a low value machine? Maybe if someone's G5 dies? But then if he's a "pro" via your definition, why is he burning up so much of his time using such an outdated machine? It would be far more economically viable to get a faster machine and get more work done, thereby increasing revenue.

I would imagine someone absolutely NEEDING to upgrade would fall more into the hobbyist, or consumer space, since their time isn't valuable enough to keep up to date. Of course, that's total conjecture, but it does have plenty of reasoning behind it.

I don't seek to speak for all, Tennis. I can only say in my situation I had jobs I couldn't complete on current tech and I had to bump up quickly or lose work.

I'd rather have waited two months - that's a universal sentiment I'm sure.

[TennisandMusic]

I don't seek to speak for all, Tennis. I can only say in my situation I had jobs I couldn't complete on current tech and I had to bump up quickly or lose work.

I'd rather have waited two months - that's a universal sentiment I'm sure.

Well you are probably one of the rare very top end users of these machines. I just think there are a myriad of situations for users, and that because the choices from Apple are so few, they should be doing a better job of keeping them current, and at least a reasonably good value. That's all.

[surferfromuk]

I've considered that, and it's a semi-good point.

However I see the problem as, now I'm switching platforms (would rather stay w/ OSX), buying redundant software (rarely a good idea), and I'm still paying about what I would for an overpriced outdated Mac Pro! Damn :apple:!

Cabin fever = waiting for new MP

Too right! :)

I know with my copy of CS5 I can swap and get a PC disk set and serial number for £10. So shouldn't be a problem.

[surferfromuk]

Well you are probably one of the rare very top end users of these machines. I just think there are a myriad of situations for users, and that because the choices from Apple are so few, they should be doing a better job of keeping them current, and at least a reasonably good value. That's all.

Not that top end - it was more just timing really.

Personally I think Apple should pre-announce the new Mac Pro they do with iPhone so everyone has a two month decision/planning window - doesn't hurt iPhone sales and judging by this forum it really pleases nobody to have such random ship times.

[nanofrog]

Actually, based on more than one report, you can call them and have them transfer your license for free.
I managed it, but with a different type of product (LabView OS X swapped for a Windows version). But I wouldn't expect that to be commonplace, so users should put in the research to verify what they'd have to pay for, and how much of course if they're looking to switch OS's.

[xgman]

We should delete this whole thread. It might give Apple ideas, then again I doubt Apple ever looks this way.

[cutthroughthebs]

I know people doing platinum albums on mac pros and on G5's too... I don't think there's any one of you that could do any better work than your doing now on whatever your using let alone a faster one! Another useless thread!
Where do you people come from anyway? I know, they are switchers! I really wish that all the switchers would just go back to your PC's and let us that know WTF were doing alone!
I take my GF's out to steak and lobster while you broke dicks take yours to ronalds he he. If you can't afford it don't buy it! Get on your hackintosh or your bindblows machine and make a million then! Good luck because if you haven't done it yet you NEVER will!!!!

[TennisandMusic]

I know people doing platinum albums on mac pros and on G5's too... I don't think there's any one of you that could do any better work than your doing now on whatever your using let alone a faster one! Another useless thread!
Where do you people come from anyway? I know, they are switchers! I really wish that all the switchers would just go back to your PC's and let us that know WTF were doing alone!
I take my GF's out to steak and lobster while you broke dicks take your to ronalds he he. If you can't afford it don't buy it! Get on your hackintosh or your bindblows maching and make a million then!

I love it.

Real Mac Pros. Treating their girlfriends to lobster, while you dine at the Golden Arches.

[cutthroughthebs]

You better believe it! I get tired or hearing from these so called experts :rolleyes: about how under powered the mac hardware is while Im making a VERY comfortable living off them and reaching my goals. These people whing about how crappy apples hardware is couldn't even type a meaningful post to a thread let alone live off thier mac or any computer for that matter!!! The Mac Pro's will come out when they come out but Im still cruzin right along with the mac I have now doing work that you see and hear every day. I think some need to start thinking more on the lines that they just don't have the chops and quit worrying about what tomorrow brings because hey, today you sucked... tomorrow you'll just have a faster computer to do your suck work on...

[bzollinger]

You better believe it! I get so sick about how under powered the mac hardware is while Im making a VERY comfortable living off them. These people whing about how crappy apples hardware is couldn't even type a meaningful post to a thread let alone live off thier mac or any computer for that matter!!! The mp's will come out when they come out but Im still cruzin right along with the mac I have now doing work that you see and hear every day. I think some need to start thinking more on the lines that they just don't have the chops and quit worrying about what tomorrow brings because hey, today you sucked... tomorrow you'll just have a faster computer to do your suck work on...

LOL! Comedy!

[ValSalva]

You better believe it! I get so sick about how under powered the mac hardware is while Im making a VERY comfortable living off them. These people whing about how crappy apples hardware is couldn't even type a meaningful post to a thread let alone live off thier mac or any computer for that matter!!! The mp's will come out when they come out but Im still cruzin right along with the mac I have now doing work that you see and hear every day. I think some need to start thinking more on the lines that they just don't have the chops and quit worrying about what tomorrow brings because hey, today you sucked... tomorrow you'll just have a faster computer to do your suck work on...

OK, you've been found out Mr. Spielberg. Now why was The Pacific so disappointing?

[sgunes]

You better believe it! I get tired or hearing from these so called experts :rolleyes: about how under powered the mac hardware is while Im making a VERY comfortable living off them and reaching my goals. These people whing about how crappy apples hardware is couldn't even type a meaningful post to a thread let alone live off thier mac or any computer for that matter!!! The Mac Pro's will come out when they come out but Im still cruzin right along with the mac I have now doing work that you see and hear every day. I think some need to start thinking more on the lines that they just don't have the chops and quit worrying about what tomorrow brings because hey, today you sucked... tomorrow you'll just have a faster computer to do your suck work on...

You seem very hostile.

It is obvious that all Steve Jobs has to do is to take his liver transplant anti-rejection medications and improve the bottomline for the company ("shareholder value") which is not any more Apple Computers but just Apple Inc.

He does not owe us (the customers) anything but would it kill him to have an announcement that new MPs will be released in 1 or 2 or 3 months?

Remember how far in advance they announced the iPad 3G?
Why does he not want to do that with the MP?
That is what gets people mad and angry.

[Houston]

You seem very hostile.

It is obvious that all Steve Jobs has to do is to take his liver transplant anti-rejection medications and improve the bottomline for the company ("shareholder value") which is not any more Apple Computers but just Apple Inc.

He does not owe us (the customers) anything but would it kill him to have an announcement that new MPs will be released in 1 or 2 or 3 months?

Just see how far in advance that announced the iPad 3G.
Why does he not want to do that with the MP?
That is what gets people mad and angry.

Because if he announced an update time in the future, it would KILL Mac Pro sales. No one in their right mind would buy one now with an announced update looming.

[bzollinger]

Because if he announced an update time in the future, it would KILL Mac Pro sales. No one in their right mind would buy one now with an announced update looming.

You're probably right but I doubt many people are buying them anyway unless they absolutly need them. And in that case if people need them now and the announcement said that it was still going to be 4 months out, then they'd probably still be forced to buy even with an announcement.

[gundam789]

I know people doing platinum albums on mac pros and on G5's too... I don't think there's any one of you that could do any better work than your doing now on whatever your using let alone a faster one! Another useless thread!
Where do you people come from anyway? I know, they are switchers! I really wish that all the switchers would just go back to your PC's and let us that know WTF were doing alone!
I take my GF's out to steak and lobster while you broke dicks take yours to ronalds he he. If you can't afford it don't buy it! Get on your hackintosh or your bindblows machine and make a million then! Good luck because if you haven't done it yet you NEVER will!!!!

Huh?
I could place an order on a 2009 Mac pro right now if i wanted I'm just waiting for the newer models.
I am a pc user and this will be my first Mac. I will probably just do light video editing on it , browse the net and play WoW online:D That's right i can afford to spend 4,000$ to play WoW and browse the net.
Maybe you should tell those leet people making platinum albums ( most likely of Paris Hilton) to dish out some $$ and get a better PC.
And by the way mixing fish with meat it's not very classy buddy and remember white wine goes with fish and red wine with steak just in case you didn't know that.

[sgunes]

Because if he announced an update time in the future, it would KILL Mac Pro sales. No one in their right mind would buy one now with an announced update looming.

That's one way to look at it.
We here (people using, buying or thinking about buying a MP) know that the 2010 model will come out any week/month.
As it was said: those who cannot wait will buy them whenever they need it; those who can wait for a couple of months will wait to get the new model.
The problem is that this secrecy will drive a fair share of potential customers to go the hackintosh route or just build/get a single or dual socket PC system and stay with Win 7.
Looking at all the pros and cons I think that the secrecy hurts them more (IMHO).

[sgunes]

Huh?
I could place an order on a 2009 Mac pro right now if i wanted I'm just waiting for the newer models.
I am a pc user and this will be my first Mac. I will probably just do light video editing on it , browse the net and play WoW online:D That's right i can afford to spend 4,000$ to play WoW and browse the net.
Maybe you should tell those leet people making platinum albums ( most likely of Paris Hilton) to dish out some $$ and get a better PC.
And by the way mixing fish with meat it's not very classy buddy and remember white wine goes with fish and red wine with steak just in case you didn't know that.

I disagree that mixing fish with meat is not classy.
I have been to fancy/classy restaurants that served Surf'n'Turf (lobster tail and steak) but that's for another forum (MAC OSX - Fine Dining?).:D

[gundam789]

That's one way to look at it.
We here (people using, buying or thinking about buying a MP) know that the 2010 model will come out any week/month.
As it was said: those who cannot wait will buy them whenever they need it; those who can wait for a couple of months will wait to get the new model.
The problem is that this secrecy will drive a fair share of potential customers to go the hackintosh route or just build/get a single or dual socket PC system and stay with Win 7.
Looking at all the pros and cons I think that the secrecy hurts them more (IMHO).
First off forgive my bad english but i learned to type it on the net =)
Houston is 100% right and i think that is the reason why they are not announcing it , it would kill the sale of the current Mac Pro's.
But I'm sorry if this is true then it is despicable for a compnay like Apple to treat their costumers like this.
If i go out and buy a current Mac Pro now and the day after the 2010 model comes out you can rest assured that this will be my last purchase from Apple.
This is why I'm inclined to believe that the reason there is no rumor yet on a release for the 2010 mac pro is because it's not going to be released any time soon.
I hope this is the case otherwise nice lame tactics from Steve job, sorry but this is just the way i see it.
I can expect this kind of behaviour from a company like Dell but not from Apple.

By the way cutthroughthebs you should be happy that there are people like me out there that switch to Mac's because we help the company grow other wise soon enough you will have to tell your leet friends to start editing platinum albums on iPad's lol.

"Yo check this out
I'm editing my platinum album on my magical iPad oh yeah oh yeah
This thang is so magical it edits like crazyyyyyy oh yeah oh yeah
( now paris Hilton chorus kicks in)
Oh yea I like it , I like it , I really really like it
yeahhhhhhhhh "

Sorry im drunk lol

[mism]

Because if he announced an update time in the future, it would KILL Mac Pro sales. No one in their right mind would buy one now with an announced update looming.

I think it works both ways. If I knew the new Mac Pros weren't out 'til September I'd buy now rather than wait. As it is I'm in limbo, constantly feeling like a new model could be released in a weeks time and I'd get that much more bang for my buck.

Roll on Monday, at least we'll know one way or the other, kind of...

[Houston]

I think it works both ways. If I knew the new Mac Pros weren't out 'til September I'd buy now rather than wait. As it is I'm in limbo, constantly feeling like a new model could be released in a weeks time and I'd get that much more bang for my buck.

Roll on Monday, at least we'll know one way or the other, kind of...

If they don't announce anything at the WWDC, then it will be September or October. :(

[rajbonham]

Don't forget a possible quiet update on Tuesday, after the keynote... If we don't see anything by Tuesday morning, then don't expect anything too soon.

[now i see it]

Hold tight. Dell and Boxx now are shipping Xeon 5600 boxes. The MP will be updated lickety split. I have been waiting for a 12 core since Feb too. The waiting is the best part... :)

[Houston]

Don't forget a possible quiet update on Tuesday, after the keynote... If we don't see anything by Tuesday morning, then don't expect anything too soon.

I can't imagine it being a quiet update. You're right about Tuesday though. If it doesn't happen by then, we're in for a long wait.

[bzollinger]

I think it works both ways. If I knew the new Mac Pros weren't out 'til September I'd buy now rather than wait. As it is I'm in limbo, constantly feeling like a new model could be released in a weeks time and I'd get that much more bang for my buck.

Roll on Monday, at least we'll know one way or the other, kind of...

This is where I'm at, and it sux! I'm hating waiting! I wish we just knew when it was being updated.

[Tonytownsend]

I know people doing platinum albums on mac pros and on G5's too... I don't think there's any one of you that could do any better work than your doing now on whatever your using let alone a faster one! Another useless thread!
Where do you people come from anyway? I know, they are switchers! I really wish that all the switchers would just go back to your PC's and let us that know WTF were doing alone!
I take my GF's out to steak and lobster while you broke dicks take your to ronalds he he. If you can't afford it don't buy it! Get on your hackintosh or your bindblows maching and make a million then!

They are using Pro Tools HD systems. My crappy G5 ppc could hold up too if I was running HD.

[deconstruct60]

but would it kill him to have an announcement that new MPs will be released in 1 or 2 or 3 months?


That approach has killed companies before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect It would not likely literally kill Apple, but it is not a best practice business wise. Apple is being very disciplined. No exceptions (unless extreme circumstances) to commenting about stuff in advance. If there is a very simple rule then it is easier to make everyone follow it.

[ although it appears they do leak stuff if going to get a positive spin. However, that appears to be reserved to building hype, not being informative. ]


If there was some single customer who was going to buy $10M of MPros or walk in the next couple of weeks, then probably could get a NDA briefing. Someone who is going to buy 4 orders of magnitude less product won't.




Remember how far in advance they announced the iPad 3G?


Comparing apples and oranges. New, never been released, product lines get a lead time to introduction. Even more so when have to get FCC and/or external vendor testing, need to ship new SDK early to entire developer network, etc.

This is a product update on a mature product line. There have been the equivalent of a MacPro product for over a decade. There is no huge tectonic shift; just a regular update that happens to be quite late.

Several years ago Apple used to occasionally do an intro at a MacWorld and the shipping date would turn out to be a month (or at least several weeks) later. That was done in part because needed "ooooh aahhh" content for a fixed in stone date. They announced, along with dropping MacWorld, that they would do announcements on products as the were ready instead of readjusting the product release drops to fixed dates. Perhaps that really just should have said dropping Mac product announcements with fixed dates.

The ipods always drop in Sept-Oct for Christmas rush (Apple still doesn't have enough juice to move Christmas day and rest of holiday season. LOL.). The iPhone seems to be adjusting to drops in June so can do dog and pony show at WWDC. However, some stuff like iPhoneOS has moved out of fixed dates also.

[you39]

That approach has killed companies before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect It would not likely literally kill Apple, but it is not a best practice business wise. Apple is being very disciplined.

Actually... my reading of that Wiki-Article is that this disciplined practice is not by any means indisputable.