Why 4.0 for the iPod touch will be FREE

[AppleMactablet]

Unlike iPhone users, iPod touch users have to pay for software update( ex. 3.0 was 9.99 then dropped to 4.99) but I have reason to believe 4.0 will be free, if you noticed that in the 4.0 demo jobs mentioned that in 4.0 there will be no more rate upon deleting, if this is not a free update user who still keep the older updates will still be asked to rate upon deleting therefore still messing up the rating system.
If 4.0 is a free update, this will fix the rating system, and will kill the old method of deleting and then rating the app.

What do you guys think?

[jessica.]

Pretty sure iPod Touch owners will be paying for the 4.0 update.

[bigjnyc]

I dont think Apple will forego the $9.99 or $4.99 per ipod touch owner just to remove that rating process. There will be an upgrade price sorry

[rwilliams]

$9.99 like it always is. Apple is never one to miss out on revenue.

[SilentPanda]

There's no reason they couldn't just... not store the rating people give anymore.

[slpdLoad]

From what I read, 4.0 will only be free to iPad users.

[flight]

From what I read, 4.0 will only be free to iPad users.

Don't forget the iPhone.

[tthere5]

The better reason for apple not to charge for 4.0 is iAd. Apple wants to be able to say to its advertisers that they aren't limiting exposure to only those who pay for an upgrade. ;)

[bndoarn]

Or they could just release a different, stripped down firmware for people who don't want to pay. And it is possible because when 2.0 was released they did this. For iPod touch users who did not want to pay for 2.0 they had a different firmware for them (1.1.5 I believe but I'm not 100% sure) and it included all the bug fixes that 2.0 had but not the App Store or anything.

[mavis]

4.0 will be free for iPod touch owners running the 4.0 beta. ;)

[J&JPolangin]

4.0 will be free for iPod touch owners running the 4.0 beta. ;)

...so how do you get the 4.0 beta version?

[iThinkergoiMac]

It would be illegal for Apple to offer it for free. The end.

There are several threads in this sub-forum about this. Read up on them, they explain why Apple can't legally offer the OS update for free on the iPod Touch.

[dyn]

If 4.0 is a free update, this will fix the rating system, and will kill the old method of deleting and then rating the app.

There is no need for 4.0 to fix the rating system. They simply need some update to not show the rating popup. This however does not resolve the problem because a lot of people keep with the old version of the software. The most likely thing that will happen is the app store disregarding the rating. You still have to popup, you still can send the rating but the app store won't do anything with it. It is the most easiest and "watertight" way of fixing the rating system.

[bigrash]

I also heard that 4.0 will be free (after you pay $10 or so)

[JLUGO35]

I'm with rwilliams and dyn. Apple never passes up easy money so I'm sure they will find a way. They must know that some people whose devices are not fully supported arn't going to give them ten dollars if they cannot get the most out of OS 4.0. I'm included as long as I can run my apps and play music I will stay with 3.0 as long as I can.

[emaja]

It would be illegal for Apple to offer it for free.

Yup, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act prevents them from giving OS 4.0 away

It is an older article referring to the 802.11n capability of early MacBooks, but it still applies here. From Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2007/01/6637.ars)

"The reason: the Core 2 Duo Macs weren’t advertised as 802.11n-ready, and a little law called the Sarbanes-Oxley Act supposedly prohibits Apple from giving away an unadvertised new feature for one of its products. Hence, said the Apple rep, the company’s not distributing new features in Software Update any more, just bug fixes. Because of Sarbanes-Oxley.

Because of the Act, the company believes that if it sells a product, then later adds a feature to that product, it can be held liable for improper accounting if it recognizes revenue from the product at the time of sale, given that it hasn’t finished delivering the product at that point."

[Anonymous Freak]

There were also many bits of commentary, including from finance lawyers, stating that Apple's claim that SOX was the reason they charged is a spurious argument, at best.

In addition, the accounting laws were changed, and Apple changed the way revenue is measured in response. So now they are perfectly capable of giving away OS upgrades for free, if they really feel like it.

But they won't. "Rate on delete" is a very strange reason for them to do a free upgrade. Even iAd is questionable. Recent web browsing stats show that the vast majority of iPhoneOS users, including iPod touch users, are on 3.x right now. And the people who are still on 2.x or 1.x are likely the people who wouldn't upgrade anyway, even if it were free.

[andybno1]

...so how do you get the 4.0 beta version?
you either buy a dev account or find a dev and see if they would add you

[Haruhi]

Well this is no problem to me as I can hear ytou laughing now (!!) I jsut downloade the firmware and updatged it. BNo0 probnlem there, apple did notlk find outj and then firmware is liker woooopowo you crazyh ipod!
there is nothing to restr4ict me and others ;ike me from just downloadig a file on the itnternet... That is just yourtube let oall tyhse tutorials through to tell youj whow to update the firmaware withoutj handing apple a big sack of cash which i like the idea of. I mean nobody has no problem there its just apple and the law ims sure they dont care at all if you get the firmware free on the web!!!1 :p:p:p:p:p

[Chozo]

Well this is no problem to me as I can hear ytou laughing now (!!) I jsut downloade the firmware and updatged it. BNo0 probnlem there, apple did notlk find outj and then firmware is liker woooopowo you crazyh ipod!
there is nothing to restr4ict me and others ;ike me from just downloadig a file on the itnternet... That is just yourtube let oall tyhse tutorials through to tell youj whow to update the firmaware withoutj handing apple a big sack of cash which i like the idea of. I mean nobody has no problem there its just apple and the law ims sure they dont care at all if you get the firmware free on the web!!!1 :p:p:p:p:p


This is why you should stay in school, kids.

[celticpride678]

Yeah, no...

iPod touch users will definitely be paying for the OS 4.0 update, just like every other time.

[BaldiMac]

It would be illegal for Apple to offer it for free. The end.

There are several threads in this sub-forum about this. Read up on them, they explain why Apple can't legally offer the OS update for free on the iPod Touch.

Yup, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act prevents them from giving OS 4.0 away

It is an older article referring to the 802.11n capability of early MacBooks, but it still applies here. From Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2007/01/6637.ars)

"The reason: the Core 2 Duo Macs weren’t advertised as 802.11n-ready, and a little law called the Sarbanes-Oxley Act supposedly prohibits Apple from giving away an unadvertised new feature for one of its products. Hence, said the Apple rep, the company’s not distributing new features in Software Update any more, just bug fixes. Because of Sarbanes-Oxley.

Because of the Act, the company believes that if it sells a product, then later adds a feature to that product, it can be held liable for improper accounting if it recognizes revenue from the product at the time of sale, given that it hasn’t finished delivering the product at that point."

It was never illegal to give the update away for free with the iPod Touch. There were just accounting implications that Apple wanted to avoid in order to maintain consistency in the way that iPod revenue was recognized in their financial statements.

Recent changes to accounting standards minimize the impact of accounting for the delivery of additional features. Apple may or may not charge for the next update, but they no longer have the same accounting issues.

[SnowLeopard2008]

Apple will make iPod touch owners pay for the updates. Something that has always irked me is how cheap some people are. Apple's upgrades aren't expensive, it's just 10 bucks. Chances are, if you can afford a $200+ iPod, you can afford $10 every year or so for new software.

iPhone owners already paid for their software, through their monthly payments to whichever carrier they use. There's a portion of their payment that goes to Apple for R&D.

iPad owners just got their devices starting from April 3 and many companies offer a grace period, like 120 days or something for a free upgrade for people who bought their software within that grace period. I know Adobe did this for CS4/5. A number of smaller software companies do this, and also Microsoft lol.

[bndoarn]

Apple will make iPod touch owners pay for the updates. Something that has always irked me is how cheap some people are. Apple's upgrades aren't expensive, it's just 10 bucks. Chances are, if you can afford a $200+ iPod, you can afford $10 every year or so for new software.

I'm not complaining. I've paid for every update and I'm just throwing this out there, but the $10 every year adds up. I paid for the January Software Update($20) which added Mail, Maps, Notes, Stocks, and Weather to the iPod Touch. I paid for 2.0($10) and I paid for 3.0 ($10). So all-in-all that's $40 just in updates. The only thing I'm going to say about 4.0 is that I hope it's cheaper for the 2G. If the 2g is getting a stripped down version of 4.0, then it should have a stripped down price. Although, I know I'm going to buy it either way.

[lynkynpark86]

From what I read, 4.0 will only be free to iPad users.

I may be wrong on this, but I think there are legal reasons that Apple must give iPhone owners free updates. But since it is so new, iPad owners will probably get 4.0 for free. It is plain unjust to completely rework a device only a month old, and make users pay for the update.

[lewis82]

I may be wrong on this, but I think there are legal reasons that Apple must give iPhone owners free updates. But since it is so new, iPad owners will probably get 4.0 for free. It is plain unjust to completely rework a device only a month old, and make users pay for the update.

That's because Apple gets revenue from AT&T each month. As such, they do not declare all the revenue coming from a single iPhone at the same quarter: it is distributed over the period of the contract. This allows them to offer the updates for free, as payment is not done entirely.

[BaldiMac]

That's because Apple gets revenue from AT&T each month. As such, they do not declare all the revenue coming from a single iPhone at the same quarter: it is distributed over the period of the contract. This allows them to offer the updates for free, as payment is not done entirely.

There is no indication that Apple receives any monthly revenue from AT&T.

[ouimetnick]

That's because Apple gets revenue from AT&T each month. As such, they do not declare all the revenue coming from a single iPhone at the same quarter: it is distributed over the period of the contract. This allows them to offer the updates for free, as payment is not done entirely.

The revenue sharing has ended ever since the iPhone 3G launched in July 2008.

[BaldiMac]

The revenue sharing has ended ever since the iPhone 3ZG launched in July 2008.

I don't think there was any evidence of revenue sharing with the iPhone 2G either. I could be wrong, it was a while ago.

[lewis82]

Why would they have offered exclusivity then?

They could as well have made it available to all carriers, in order to sell more phones.

Revenue sharing seems logical: some people are going to leave their carrier for AT&T in order to get the iPhone.

[ouimetnick]

I don't think there was any evidence of revenue sharing with the iPhone 2G either. I could be wrong, it was a while ago.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=25791


New Agreement With Apple Reflects Significant Growth Opportunity
The new agreement between Apple and AT&T eliminates the revenue-sharing model under which AT&T shared a portion of monthly service revenue with Apple. Under the revised agreement, which is consistent with traditional equipment manufacturer-carrier arrangements, there is no revenue sharing and both
iPhone 3G models will be offered at attractive prices to broaden the market potential and accelerate subscriber volumes. The phones will be offered with a two-year contract and attractive data plans that are similar to those offered for other smartphones and PDAs. AT&T anticipates that these offers will drive increased sales volumes and revenues among high-quality, data-centric customers. Currently, less than 20 percent of AT&T's postpaid subscribers have integrated devices capable of voice, Web and data applications. Based on the company's experience, average monthly revenues per iPhone subscriber are nearly double the average of the company's overall subscriber base.

It happened. Just doesn't exist anymore.

[OGDaniel]

None of this matters. I don't think a lot of people are buying apps based on what some dickhead said in a rating, but rather what they've seen in the Lite app or watched in reviews.
In any case, the rating system isn't going to sway Apple into not getting a couple million dollars on big OS upgrades like this. Regardless, people will pay for update anyway.

[mustnotsleep]

thanks to spirit, upgrading is unnecessary. even if you upgrade to 4.0, you wont have all the features possible with jb. jobs can continue building his closed monopoly if he wants to, but i refuse to be a part of it.

[mags631]

thanks to spirit, upgrading is unnecessary. even if you upgrade to 4.0, you wont have all the features possible with jb. jobs can continue building his closed monopoly if he wants to, but i refuse to be a part of it.

Closed monopoly? Is there an open monopoly? And monopoly of what? iPhones? Yes, Apple has a monopoly on iPhones -- but that means nothing.

And if you have an iPhone, you are "a part of it" -- you funded it. And I'm sure you realize that JB on the current version will not provide you any new features provided by the later versions...

[The General]

Unlike iPhone users, iPod touch users have to pay for software update( ex. 3.0 was 9.99 then dropped to 4.99) but I have reason to believe 4.0 will be free, if you noticed that in the 4.0 demo jobs mentioned that in 4.0 there will be no more rate upon deleting, if this is not a free update user who still keep the older updates will still be asked to rate upon deleting therefore still messing up the rating system.
If 4.0 is a free update, this will fix the rating system, and will kill the old method of deleting and then rating the app.

What do you guys think?

how does the price of the update have anything to do with the way app ratings work?

[mustnotsleep]

Closed monopoly? Is there an open monopoly? And monopoly of what? iPhones? Yes, Apple has a monopoly on iPhones -- but that means nothing.

And if you have an iPhone, you are "a part of it" -- you funded it. And I'm sure you realize that JB on the current version will not provide you any new features provided by the later versions...

until that version gets jailbroken obviously, which it always will. its a neverending cycle that jobs wants to pursue forever. i had to wait about 4 months to jb my touch which is simply outrageous, however. they have a monopoly on everything. from carriers to apps to music to everything. the feds are just now taking a look into antitrust issues on the iphone, which is long overdue. the US cell phone system is archaic compared to Asia and Europe. and while i do support the iphone/ipods because they are great products, i just hate how jobs dictates how you must use it. its fine for people who dont want much hassle, but it falls way too short for users who care about getting max value/performance.

i dont know why you are arguing jobs' side though, competition is always good. it was jobs' entire argument back when msft was undisputed king.

[OGDaniel]

how does the price of the update have anything to do with the way app ratings work?

Lol it doesn't, I really don't understand the point that this guy is trying to make with this thread.

[Winni]

I may be wrong on this, but I think there are legal reasons that Apple must give iPhone owners free updates. But since it is so new, iPad owners will probably get 4.0 for free. It is plain unjust to completely rework a device only a month old, and make users pay for the update.

I completely agree. But when I bought my 1st gen iPod Touch, I had to pay for the first software update that was released only a week after my purchase. Plain unjust for a device that was only a week old, but that was the reality.

I'm glad that I no longer own an iPhone OS-based device.

[BaldiMac]

It's called "The Walled Garden" by anti-fanboys and I feel it's a deserving title to describe the never-ending vending machine known as iTunes; having to put your nickles and dimes into it to use its media... ONLY iTunes.

If this were any other company doing that, fanboys would be s**tting themselves belly-aching about the "my way or the highway" way of doing it.

The PP has a point.

Yep. Only iTunes. If you ignore all the alternative ways to obtain and organize your media, of course. It's hard to have a good rant if you acknowledge that the other options exist. :rolleyes:

[Liam8]

we'll be paying for sure

[BaldiMac]

we'll be paying for sure

What makes you think so?

[Beric]

iAd is something to consider. Apple makes money off every iAd, and Apple can't start making money off ads if people don't upgrade. Multitasking is the only thing I'm interested in 4.0, and I already have that with my Jailbreak (and have for a while), so I have absolutely no reason to upgrade until my favorite apps start requiring 4.0.

[goosnarrggh]

I may be wrong on this, but I think there are legal reasons that Apple must give iPhone owners free updates. But since it is so new, iPad owners will probably get 4.0 for free. It is plain unjust to completely rework a device only a month old, and make users pay for the update.

It's not so much the case that Apple must give iPhone owners upgrades for free (in all probability, they would be permitted to charge for some iPhone upgrades if they wanted to and they thought enough customers would accept it to make it worthwhile).

Rather, Apple's interpretation of current law and accepted accounting practices, taken in conjunction with the previous decisions they'd already made regarding accounting for iPod touch sales, leads them to believe that they must not give away iPod touch upgrades for free.

Then again, with the potential income from iAd placements, it's possible that they might be able to divert some of that money towards a subscription revenue model, which might satisfy their fears about delivering free upgrades. It's highly unlikely in my opinion, but possible.

[a104375]

hehe sucks for 2 pages worth of people to be wrong, very good prediction OP, Free iOS 4 for iPod Touch People :)

[appleguy123]

Nice job OP.

[sportsfrk214]

Don't think the OP had the correct reason as to why it would be free, but he was nonetheless right =) Good work, fun to see an OP nailing a prediction thread that countless others rejected as not possible.

[J&JPolangin]

...now if only it would support my 1st gen iPod Touch:(

[Jimmy James]

Unlike iPhone users, iPod touch users have to pay for software update( ex. 3.0 was 9.99 then dropped to 4.99) but I have reason to believe 4.0 will be free, if you noticed that in the 4.0 demo jobs mentioned that in 4.0 there will be no more rate upon deleting, if this is not a free update user who still keep the older updates will still be asked to rate upon deleting therefore still messing up the rating system.
If 4.0 is a free update, this will fix the rating system, and will kill the old method of deleting and then rating the app.

What do you guys think?

In hindsight, you are a genius.