Need advice on EyeTV or similar product

[zelmo]

Couldn't find any posts on this topic (kind of surprised at that):

One of my co-workers finally ordered that new Mac she's been talking about for the past three years. She received her ship notification email yesterday. 20" iMac G5 1.8/1GB/250/AE/BT keyboard and mouse.
She also has been living with a 13" TV, and wanted to know if any of the EyeTV or similar products were worthwhile, since she'd like upgrade her TV and avoid having a bunch of electronics in her house. Certainly, the 20" iMac is a big step up from a 13" TV.
Does anyone have any tips for her? I think she is looking at the EyeTV 200 (cable). Any idea how many hours of TV you could store in about 200GB?

[Steven1621]

a buddy of mine has an eye tv in his dorm and it is quite nifty. granted it is more of a novelity for him, but i'm not sure how it would be to watch TV infront of the computer. Granted, i spend a ton of time in from of this thing anyway.

[zelmo]

a buddy of mine has an eye tv in his dorm and it is quite nifty. granted it is more of a novelity for him, but i'm not sure how it would be to watch TV infront of the computer. Granted, i spend a ton of time in from of this thing anyway.

I don't think TV is a huge priority with my friend either, which is why she'd rather not have a 27" TV sitting in her living room. You can get a flat screen 27" stereo TV for less than EyeTV 200 these days, so her decision is not about price, either. She works 2nd shift hours, so being able to record to the hard drive is handy. I think she's made the decision to do something like this. She just doesn't know enough about the available products to make an informed decision.

[dogsbody]

I've been looking at the Formac Studio TVR. It's got a firewire interface and records in DV. Also has s-video and composite video and audio I/O and requires no external power supply if running off a desktop.

Looks really good, and compares well to the EyeTV. The price seems better too. I'll be buying one myself soon.... :)

Sorry here's a link too Formac Information (http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=foryou_specials)

[zelmo]

I've been looking at the Formac Studio TVR. It's got a firewire interface and records in DV. Also has s-video and composite video and audio I/O and requires no external power supply if running off a desktop.

Looks really good, and compares well to the EyeTV. The price seems better too. I'll be buying one myself soon.... :)

Sorry here's a link too Formac Information (http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=foryou_specials)

Thanks! I'll tell her to check that out before she buys anything.

[wdlove]

I've been looking at the Formac Studio TVR. It's got a firewire interface and records in DV. Also has s-video and composite video and audio I/O and requires no external power supply if running off a desktop.

Looks really good, and compares well to the EyeTV. The price seems better too. I'll be buying one myself soon.... :)

Sorry here's a link too Formac Information (http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=foryou_specials)

I contacted them to get a comparison. My concern is so that it will work with a Cable hookup. The latest EyeTV that also uses Firewire only works with an antenna.

[dogsbody]

Hi again,

Here's some more info - Formac actually have a comparison of their own against the main competition:

Here's the comparison (http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=solutions_converters_studiodvtv_compare)

plus a datasheet:

Here's the PDF datasheet (http://www.formac.com/files/pdf_sheets/studiodvtv.pdf)

Just got to put some cheques in my account today and I can order it....

[Diatribe]

You can get a flat screen 27" stereo TV for less than EyeTV 200 these days.

Where? I want one for that price. :eek:

On a second thought, you were just talking about the screen being flat, not the entire TV right? Because if you were I'd want one. :D

[m2uk]

Just remember (IME) that Formac have rather dire customer support, the included software is cack (see Vidl instead on versiontracker) and they require factory fitted ROM upgrades.

But I still use my unpatched version each day with Vidl and that s/w really makes it.

Will need to look for aEuropean digital cable version eventually.

[dogsbody]

Just processed my order for the Formac TVR Studio and the Lacie Big Disk Extreme 320Gb. Still prefer it to the others though.

I'll have to find the software you suggested. Thanks for the tip, m2uk.

Incidentally, I don't think I can get cable over here in Guernsey, so I guess I'll just have to use my Sky box through S-Video or composite...

[wdlove]

Just processed my order for the Formac TVR Studio and the Lacie Big Disk Extreme 320Gb. Still prefer it to the others though.

I'll have to find the software you suggested. Thanks for the tip, m2uk.

Incidentally, I don't think I can get cable over here in Guernsey, so I guess I'll just have to use my Sky box through S-Video or composite...

I will look forward to hearing your personal review of the Formac TVR Studio. My concern is that the comparison information was done Formac. Guess I'm just skeptical. My understanding is that EyeTV has a built in tuner that comes with the software.

Also customer support is important.

[earthtoandy]

yeah i heard EyeTV was quite awesome. i wouldnt mind having it

[dogsbody]

Customer support is rather important - got pretty hacked off with Apple's Indian Call centre helpline some time ago - spent ages on the phone determining that the 'white spots on my Powerbook screen' were actually a hardware fault. Didn't appreciate being on the phone for 3/4 hour.

I'll post a review when I've had a play with it - doubtless the day it arrives. I just open things and start using them as soon as I can w/out reading instructions. Not always the best tactic... :o

[erroneous]

I will look forward to hearing your personal review of the Formac TVR Studio. My concern is that the comparison information was done Formac. Guess I'm just skeptical.

The Formac comparison must have either been done against a very old version of the Elgato software, or they're, erm, bending the truth a little.

According to Elgato's product comparison matrix (http://www.elgato.com/matrix/index.php) (which only compares the differing features of their own products) the 200 can do pretty much everything Formac's matrix says it can't. I know the nifty export formats were introduced in a recent software release only a few weeks ago, but they've had a remote/external EPG and reasonably functional internal editing software for ages.

I have an EyeTV 400, since I'm in the UK and we've got a decent Digital Terrestrial offering, and am happily recording tonnes of history programmes, reruns of Moonlighting that just started on one of the new channels, stuff I'd never get to watch otherwise. It won't yet record the audio-only radio channels we have, or pick up the broadcast MHEG programme guide/guis, but it's 90% of the way there, and the Elgato support people make positive noises about the features their software is going to get in the future.

[ravenvii]

I saw that ElGato released the EyeTV software 1.6, and I was delighted to discover that it finally added closed captioning support!

... but it's for the G4 or above?! No G3?! WAAAAHHHH!

:( :( :( :mad: :mad: :mad:

[dogsbody]

Well, the Formac Studio TVR etc arrived today. It's pretty bulky and not very tidily manufactured at the back-end (bit like a Rhino) but it would certainly not look out of place next to a white iMac (old or new) thanks to it's very shiny surface.

Other than visual stimulation, I haven't done anything with it as it's for my pa and I'd feel bad about opening it without him being there or at least giving the all-clear to 'test' it.

I'll file a progress report when I've tried it out this evening....

Db

[wdlove]

Well, the Formac Studio TVR etc arrived today. It's pretty bulky and not very tidily manufactured at the back-end (bit like a Rhino) but it would certainly not look out of place next to a white iMac (old or new) thanks to it's very shiny surface.

Other than visual stimulation, I haven't done anything with it as it's for my pa and I'd feel bad about opening it without him being there or at least giving the all-clear to 'test' it.

I'll file a progress report when I've tried it out this evening....

Db

You had my hopes up at the beginning. I will be patiently waiting for your review.

[dogsbody]

Still not managed to review it! Sorry - got to sort out a friend's broadband, wireless hp multiprinter, sky plus and new iMac G5 tomorrow as well! Darn there's just not enough hours in the day

Fear not, however, as I shall attempt to review tomorrow evening and shall post forthwith.

Apologies, especially to wdlove for being so patient :o

[aswitcher]

I've got a powerbook and am thinking about a digital tuner. Anyone run such a setup and have advice?

[Nawlins]

Does your Mac have to be hooked up to a cable TV connection for EyeTV to work? I've thought about getting an EyeTV, but I don't have a cable TV cord in my bedroom, where I use my Powerbook the most.

Alex

[wdlove]

Does your Mac have to be hooked up to a cable TV connection for EyeTV to work? I've thought about getting an EyeTV, but I don't have a cable TV cord in my bedroom, where I use my Powerbook the most.

Alex

The EyeTV is meant to work with an antenna. So it might just be the product for your situation.

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv500

[dogsbody]

Hello,

Well, finally opened it all up and plugged in etc tonight. My first impressions about the thing is its size (it's about half the size of my PB15") and how many damned connections there are! There's loads - FW i/o, Composite Video i/o, S-Video i/o, L-R Audio i/o. Power i/o (output for the camera), coaxial cable/terrestrial in and a power switch. Although that doesn't really count...

Sorry, I digress.

Right, plugged it in, Ran the installers off the CD, found out that one of them wasn't necessary as it's for driving the Formac external DVD burner (sadly not included as a freebie - misers), and started up the Studio TVR application....

I was asked where I resided (it had UK listed under Pal-I and I always thought we were PAL-B, so I learnt something or was misinformed), and guided through setting up all the channels...which didn't achieve much as it wasn't connected to anything at the time. Never mind.

Oh at this point I should mention that I couldn't help plugging everything in at once, so the two LaCie D2s and the Formac were all plugged into my PB.

Here's a photo of this joyous configuration... (http://www.vazon.f9.co.uk/Macrumors/TVR_and_2D2s.jpg)

The problem was as I expected in a different post on this forum - the TVR wouldn't boot up at all if the D2s were plugged in, albeit they were plugged into FW800 and the TVR was plugged into FW400. (I thought 400 and 800 would run off different busses, so if anyone can enlighten me I'd be very appreciative.) Once the D2s were unplugged, the device booted up fine and all gathered round proceeded to be merry. :D

Sorry for the rambling - I get a bit carried away & only realise when people remark on how 'thorough' I am...

Anyway, connected the coaxial output of our Sky box to the TVR (our Sky only has SCART out and I don't have my leads on me at the moment, so Coax had to do for test purposes). There didn't appear to be a simple way to tune in just one channel on the TVR, so I just ran an autotune on the whole lot and it proceeded to tune in about 100 channels for me, only 5 of which had a signal (4 terrestrial and one from Sky). At this point I should mention that the interface does look very aesthetically appley with it's platinum-style windows, although the icons in the preferences panel are very grainy and, well, grey, but they do offer quite a few tweakages.

Here's a pic of the screen layout (http://www.vazon.f9.co.uk/Macrumors/TVR_screenshot_1.jpg)

There were several problems with window resizing as well, where I'd choose 'half size' and the window would do a genie-esque rendition of disappearing into the middle of the desktop and desist from appearing in any shape or form. At which point I had to quit the application by using the old apple-tab/q. Strange.

The quality of the picture was a little grainy, but this is to be expected when using a coaxial output rather than S-vid or Composite. There was also a DV-size mode and a TV-modus mode which gave a full-screen picture, with a quite neat controller down the left side.

TV pausing and recording worked fine, with an option for DV or Quicktime format recordings, although quite how you'd use the TVR with a laptop and record to external hard-drive is beyond me. I'm planning on buying an external power supply for the TVR to see if this rectifies the problem...

Erm...other things about the TVR...a nice feature is that when a film/tv is playing, you can 'drag', apple-style, a screen still to wherever you like. Nice way of screen-capturing DVDs (albeit played through S-Video or Composite, which rather defeats the object of owning a PB with a DVD player).

One fuss is that if the PB had been on my lap while I'd been doing this, I think my legs would have been carbonised as a temperature not entirely dissimilar to that of the sun's surface appeared to radiate forth from my PB's aluminum bodywork - this is possibly due to the Power demands of the little TVR unit. We'll see.

Oh - as you may have seen in the earlier pic, the windows pop out the side of the main window a-la Mail Mailboxes tray etc. Nice feature as they all cling on that way. Also, one of the trays contains all your recorded films which you can choose to export in whatever format you choose:

here's a shot of just that (http://www.vazon.f9.co.uk/Macrumors/TVR_screenshot_2.jpg)

Think I should stop writing now. I keep trying to put in bits in a vain bid to feel like I've reviewed the thing properly, but I can sense that this is mainly a stream of consciousness. So I'm going to go now, and people can ask questions if they want more information. Sorry!

Oh - would I recommend it? Well, my dad's happy with it cos of all the different connections on the thing. And I'm happy cos I can watch/record tv whilst chargrilling my thighs...but I can't help but think the Elgato, rather ironically, looks more Elegant and looking at the prices again, may even be at a better price point. Yes, at the sacrifice of less connections, but the TVR software was last updated in May 2003, which was a bit disturbing.

Ask away if you wish - I'll answer anything/post more shots if required. I'll even run tests on it if you like.

Db

PS If you've read this whole thing, you're a better man (or woman, although that's a moot point) than I, as I couldn't even be bothered to read back over all of it to spell/sense check...

[erickkoch]

I use Eye TV. I must have an older one, it uses USB and there is no S-Video connection, just standard Red, White audio, and Yellow video connectors plus an antenna connector. I used it with an antenna but the picture was usually snowey. I now have cable and it works fine.

One thing you may want to know is that there appears to be a delay of about 2 sec while it processes video and sound. In other words, if you use the remote to change channels or scroll through the cable menus, you would operate the remote, wait a couple of seconds, then the channel or menus would change. This makes it impossible to use if you want to play your XBox, the delay would make things very challenging.

Maybe the newer fire-wire versions don't have the delay?

[aswitcher]

I priced these for Oz and then compared them with stand alone digital tuner units with HDD. Price is about the same. If only these units had a Mac supporting USB or Firewire I would much prefer to have a stand alone HDD that I could just suck programs off I really wanted to keep. Sigh. Maybe next year.

[iindigo]

Just curious, will these things work with a digital cable converter box?

[m2uk]

you will remember that Formac's software is the windows 3.11 of the software world, IMHO.

[dogsbody]

Truly you did say that, m2uk - I should be downloading Vidl when I get a moment and see if that really does enhance the user experience. Last night it was a case of "Let's see what this thing can do!" and then a sort of....right, so that's about the whole of it...

Little niggles, like the Full screen TV mode not allowing you to record/pause etc - it seems you have to go back into windowed mode for that as there aren't any shortcut keys...hmmm...Vidl it is.

Thanks!

[RBR2]

I recently got an EyeTV 200 which has the Firewire output to the Mac. It accepts coax, composite/RCA, and S-Video inputs. I do not think that the signal coming in on the coax input is as good as the others. It is a hardware analog to digital converter and supposedly does not load down the CPU the way some of the software conversion systems are reported to do.

It will work with a cable box, but has no provision for controlling the channel of the cable box (like some VCRs have). You will either need to have a cable box capable of being programed to change channels or leave it on the channel to be recorded. Formac's device also lacks this capability.

The "standard" setting takes about 1.8 GB/hour and the high quality one takes about 2.7 GB/hour. The single layer DVD you will be recording to has a capacity of somewhere between 4.3 GB and 4.4 GB, not the 4.7 GB it is labeled. Additionally, there is some "overhead" in the process of recording to the DVD. So far I have only been able to get about 92 to 93 minutes of recording on a single layer DVD at the high quality setting. Using the standard is ok in most circumstances, but shows its limitations in some motion sequences.

I am still trying to sort out an issue with the cable TV signal and the EyeTV which results in a black band down the right side of the image on some, but not all, channels.

If you get any of these devices get a big hard drive...you will be amazed how quickly you can fill one up. Editing out commercials with the supplied editor reduces the typical 1 hour broadcast tv program to about 42-43 minutes which usually allows me to fit three programs on a DVD when recorded at the standard setting. There are supposedly some programs that will allow you to convert files down to a smaller size, but I am still looking for these as I have a few programs that are too large to fit on a single DVD based upon the file size I used.

EyeTV is set up to use Toast 6 as the burning software. I do not know what other burning software may work with it, but I see no reason why other programs could not be used if necessary.

The EyeTV does not have an on/off switch. You unplug the firewire cable to turn it off. There is also a separate (optional) power supply which I have not tried as yet. I do not know what difference it is supposed to make. El Gato's instructions say not to daisy chain other firewire devices with the EyeTV.

[wdlove]

I recently got an EyeTV 200 which has the Firewire output to the Mac. It accepts coax, composite/RCA, and S-Video inputs. I do not thing that the signal coming in on the coax input is as good as the others. It is a hardware analog to digital converter and supposedly does not load down the CPU the way some of the software conversion systems are reported to do.

The EyeTV does not have an on/off switch. You unplug the firewire cable to turn it off. There is also a separate (optional) power supply which I have not tried as yet. I do not know what difference it is supposed to make. El Gato's instructions say not to daisy chain other firewire devices with the EyeTV.

Doesn't the EyeTV coveter or the software allow for the changing of channels? With the Cable TV I use there is no box. What size Hard Drive do you recommend?

[RBR2]

Doesn't the EyeTV coveter or the software allow for the changing of channels? With the Cable TV I use there is no box. What size Hard Drive do you recommend?

Yes, the EyeTV has a tuner which will work on the channels that are analog, not scrambled, and below channel 120 something. The problem is if you have a cable box. With a cable box the EyeTV is set to either channel 3 or 4 and the cable box is what determines the actual channel.

What size hard drive you want depends upon how quickly you get the recorded programs burned to a DVD or watched if you do not want to save them. My thought is that you will probably fill up a drive much quicker than you thought you ever could...I have. The prices on 250 GB drives are pretty good right now. I got an Hitachi (ex-IBM) 250 GB HD (which matches my firewire backup drive size) from ZipZoomFly for less than $160 recently and copied my system drive over to it and have devoted the old system drive (185 GB to EyeTV data files only). Some of the bigger drives are getting attractively priced as well.

[aswitcher]

Ok, tricky question.

Is there a way of using a standard digital set top box to connect to a powerbook and software to record the signal...in other words if I have a DSTB can I cheaply use my PB to capture programs?

[cwright]

Has anyone here used the AlchemyTV DVR from Milgia? Its a PCI card that appears to do the same thing as the EyeTV 200 and the Formac Studio TVR. Its also much cheaper; you can buy it for $150 at CompUSA's website.

I'd love to hear how the AlchemyTV DVR stacks up against the more expensive external solutions... so please let me know if you've used one! :)

Link: http://www.miglia.com/products/video/alchemytvdvr/index.html
CompUSA: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=314961&pfp=SEARCH

[RBR2]

Has anyone here used the AlchemyTV DVR from Milgia? Its a PCI card that appears to do the same thing as the EyeTV 200 and the Formac Studio TVR. Its also much cheaper; you can buy it for $150 at CompUSA's website.

I'd love to hear how the AlchemyTV DVR stacks up against the more expensive external solutions... so please let me know if you've used one! :)

Link: http://www.miglia.com/products/video/alchemytvdvr/index.html
CompUSA: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=314961&pfp=SEARCH

I have no first hand exterience with the Alchemy unit, but it is a software analog/digital conversion system which will place a much greater load on the CPU. It is attractively priced though.

[cazlar]

I priced these for Oz and then compared them with stand alone digital tuner units with HDD. Price is about the same. If only these units had a Mac supporting USB or Firewire I would much prefer to have a stand alone HDD that I could just suck programs off I really wanted to keep. Sigh. Maybe next year.

Have a look at the Topfield TF5000PVRt. It has a USB connection that you can hook up to your computer. Topfield only supports PCs but I've written a program (MacTF) that lets you upload/download files to your Mac without having to use VirtualPC (yuck!). I recommend having a read in the DBA forums (PVR/HDD section) or the Topfield-Australia forums if you want more info on the box.

[aswitcher]

Have a look at the Topfield TF5000PVRt. It has a USB connection that you can hook up to your computer. Topfield only supports PCs but I've written a program (MacTF) that lets you upload/download files to your Mac without having to use VirtualPC (yuck!). I recommend having a read in the DBA forums (PVR/HDD section) or the Topfield-Australia forums if you want more info on the box.

That sounds great. The unit looks like a good one...mmm...ok, well I am looking at buying next year (just bought my PB) so I'll put this to the top of my list.

Wheres the best place to find MacTF?

[cazlar]

That sounds great. The unit looks like a good one...mmm...ok, well I am looking at buying next year (just bought my PB) so I'll put this to the top of my list.

Wheres the best place to find MacTF?

If you're not buying till next year, you may want to wait for the TF7000 which is apparently a linux-based box with HD (and ethernet), although price and release date hasn't been announced yet. The 5000t is a great box though and is by far and away the best on the market at the moment.

MacTF can be found at www.noates.com or Versiontracker.

[mslifkin]

Hi Dogsbody,

Thanks for a very enlightening review. What I wanted to know is if you've tried any captures lasting an hour and a half or more, and if so, how was the audio/video sync towards the end. I've got a Miglia Alchemy TV card, and when I try to capture a full length movie the sync goes out towards the end. Not real bad, but noticeable, and really annoying. Have you noticed this with the Formac? Thanks again.

Regards,
Marc

Hello,

Oh - would I recommend it? Well, my dad's happy with it cos of all the different connections on the thing. And I'm happy cos I can watch/record tv whilst chargrilling my thighs...but I can't help but think the Elgato, rather ironically, looks more Elegant and looking at the prices again, may even be at a better price point. Yes, at the sacrifice of less connections, but the TVR software was last updated in May 2003, which was a bit disturbing.

Ask away if you wish - I'll answer anything/post more shots if required. I'll even run tests on it if you like.

Db

PS If you've read this whole thing, you're a better man (or woman, although that's a moot point) than I, as I couldn't even be bothered to read back over all of it to spell/sense check...

[aswitcher]

If you're not buying till next year, you may want to wait for the TF7000 which is apparently a linux-based box with HD (and ethernet), although price and release date hasn't been announced yet. The 5000t is a great box though and is by far and away the best on the market at the moment.

MacTF can be found at www.noates.com or Versiontracker.

Ok thanks. Linux should talk much easier to a mac. Good.

I just dont ant to tie my PB To the TV all the time, and most of the stuff I will be rcording will never get kept...but some will.

The TF7000 sounds good...like DVD players, the first year or so really hurts price wise, but then they plumet. I expect to be able to get a dual tuner, 80gig+, ethernet, for under $500...

[sushi]

Just processed my order for the Formac TVR Studio and the Lacie Big Disk Extreme 320Gb. Still prefer it to the others though.

I'll have to find the software you suggested. Thanks for the tip, m2uk.

Incidentally, I don't think I can get cable over here in Guernsey, so I guess I'll just have to use my Sky box through S-Video or composite...
Thanks for your review.

Be curious to see how you like the Studio TVR with the Vidi software.

Still trying to decide on a Studio TVR, EyeTV or heaven forbid a PC solution.

One thing for sure, Formac has no customer service it seems. Still waiting on a response from them -- probably will never come.

Thanks!

Sushi

[wdlove]

Thanks for your review.

Be curious to see how you like the Studio TVR with the Vidi software.

Still trying to decide on a Studio TVR, EyeTV or heaven forbid a PC solution.

One thing for sure, Formac has no customer service it seems. Still waiting on a response from them -- probably will never come.

Thanks!

Sushi

That is why I'm planning on going with Elgato. They have been very responsive to my E.Mail questions. The idea of a discount even makes it better.

[sushi]

That is why I'm planning on going with Elgato. They have been very responsive to my E.Mail questions. The idea of a discount even makes it better.
So how is the Elgato working?

TIA!

Sushi

[RBR2]

Doesn't the EyeTV coveter or the software allow for the changing of channels? With the Cable TV I use there is no box. What size Hard Drive do you recommend?

The EyeTV has a tuner of its own which can change channels. It will only work with the non-digital channels though. If you have channels that must go through the cable box to be unscrambeled or whatever the EyeTV lacks the ability to change channels on the cable box (commonly called VCR commander) with a remote that sticks on the front of the cable box IR port.

About hard drive size, you may find that you are recording more than you expected. A big drive is in order. The prices are reasonable for 250 MB drives now. If you find a bigger one at a price that is agreeable I doubt that you will be complaining that you got one bigger than you needed. By the time you get things saved to the drive and edited and burned to a DVD so you can clean the files off the drive it adds up.

[Steven1621]

That is why I'm planning on going with Elgato. They have been very responsive to my E.Mail questions. The idea of a discount even makes it better.

How do you get a discount?