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View Full Version : Macbook Air vs. Sony Vaio Z - anyone?




soph
May 4, 2010, 09:03 AM
I'm a longtime lurker, so I'm quite familiar with every tiny little aspect of updates or no updates and hardware specs of the MBA vs the Sony Vaio Z.

Way back when the updates of the Macbook Pros were announced someone said people would now rush over to Sony for a new Vaio Z. - So, has anybody done this and can tell of the experience?

I'm looking for the non-technical stuff. The things you rarely read in quick reviews. Yes, I know by numbers the Vaio Z is way in front. This I can find online easy enough.

What I would like to read is long-time experience (say, upwards a week for each ;-) ), and what differences you found between the Vaio Z and the MBA.

I'm looking for useability. Reviews say the screen backside of the Vaio Z feels flimsy and bends, and the handrest and underside feels like plain plastic. Is this true, especially compared to the MBA?

What else is there: Fan noise. Ergonometry (I very much like the tapered design so the handrest ist so very low, and though I haven't tried the Vaio Z yet it looks plain old brick-y and thus very uncomfortably). The difference the trackpad makes. The difference the screen resolution really makes. Everything you can come up with.



JasG
May 4, 2010, 12:45 PM
To me it all comes down to operating systems.

I switched to Mac portables ten years ago out of frustration with Windows, and nothing I've seen since from Windows has tempted me back. In fact every time I am called upon to use a machine with windows for even a few hours I get a little nauseous.

I am a writer and for a writer who doesn't mind Windows there are other great three-pound options. The Thinkpad keyboard is unsurpassed, and there are several models now weighing in around three pounds with good screens and good or better battery life. But I won't go back until I can run OS X on it, or there is a version of Linux that would be as easy to install and use.

eleven59
May 4, 2010, 03:07 PM
To me it all comes down to operating systems.

I switched to Mac portables ten years ago out of frustration with Windows, and nothing I've seen since from Windows has tempted me back. In fact every time I am called upon to use a machine with windows for even a few hours I get a little nauseous.

+1000000

entatlrg
May 4, 2010, 03:21 PM
Here's a link that gives good info on the Sony Z.

It compares it to the 15" MBP but you'll find it a good read I'm sure.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=902996

gwsat
May 4, 2010, 08:07 PM
Here's a link that gives good info on the Sony Z.

It compares it to the 15" MBP but you'll find it a good read I'm sure.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=902996
That was a very interesting thread. I agree with the conclusion reached by the thread starter: despite the power and incredibly light weight of the Vaio Z, OS X remains the superior OS, so he returned the Z to the Sony Style Store and kept the 15 inch MBP. CAVEAT: I am a Mac nerd of long standing, so take the foregoing for what it's worth.

halledise
May 4, 2010, 08:33 PM
I'm a longtime lurker, so I'm quite familiar with every tiny little aspect of updates or no updates and hardware specs of the MBA vs the Sony Vaio Z.

Way back when the updates of the Macbook Pros were announced someone said people would now rush over to Sony for a new Vaio Z. - So, has anybody done this and can tell of the experience?

I'm looking for the non-technical stuff. The things you rarely read in quick reviews. Yes, I know by numbers the Vaio Z is way in front. This I can find online easy enough.

What I would like to read is long-time experience (say, upwards a week for each ;-) ), and what differences you found between the Vaio Z and the MBA.

I'm looking for useability. Reviews say the screen backside of the Vaio Z feels flimsy and bends, and the handrest and underside feels like plain plastic. Is this true, especially compared to the MBA?

What else is there: Fan noise. Ergonometry (I very much like the tapered design so the handrest ist so very low, and though I haven't tried the Vaio Z yet it looks plain old brick-y and thus very uncomfortably). The difference the trackpad makes. The difference the screen resolution really makes. Everything you can come up with.

Sony make fantastic products, except when it comes to computers - then it's just another PC manufacturer.

to compare Sony Vaio running Winders with an Air running Snow Leopard?
2 words:
***** v Style

PsyD4Me
May 4, 2010, 08:42 PM
Man and I thought that this was going to be an actual review

entatlrg
May 4, 2010, 09:22 PM
That was a very interesting thread. I agree with the conclusion reached by the thread starter: despite the power and incredibly light weight of the Vaio Z, OS X remains the superior OS, so he returned the Z to the Sony Style Store and kept the 15 inch MBP. CAVEAT: I am a Mac nerd of long standing, so take the foregoing for what it's worth.

It's interesting, if you read to the end of the thread now he went back and bought another Sony Z and is pleased with the screen.

Sounds like he'll use it along with his new 15" MBP - that's two incredible machines!

So far I've retired my Macbook Air, tried the Sony Z and returned it, and decided to go with the 50% more weight and use the 13" MBP for my mobile machine.

SnowLeopard2008
May 4, 2010, 09:44 PM
The Sony Z starts at a higher price. Again, Apple may not have the best hardware but overall, it's got the best experience from beginning to end and back around. Quality aluminum versus cheap plastic. Mac OS X versus Virus Heaven/BSoD land/POS.

Scottsdale
May 4, 2010, 11:36 PM
The thing about the Vaio Z is it's far more powerful than a MacBook Pro yet weighs almost as little as a MacBook Air.

What one really needs to determine is which computer will fit all of their needs and still has the greatest marginal utility. So while a Vaio Z might be incredibly powerful, and it is, one might only need the power of an MBA. If one loves an MBA and it fits all of the requirements, it's perfectly acceptable. I don't need the power of a Vaio Z. Sure I would like to have more power than a current MBA, but none of us really need that power unless we're doing some intensive stuff. The MBA is completely capable other than its 2 GB of RAM limitation. If one wants an MBA but they also need to run both OS X and Windows 7 virtually, the MBA is a terrible choice.

If the MBA does everything you need it to do, then it's a great choice. I really believe we're all caught up thinking about specs. For example, the Vaio Z has 1 GB of dedicated VRAM while the MBA shares 256 MB RAM with the system memory. While that 1 GB of dedicated VRAM sounds great on paper, the average user wouldn't benefit from that much VRAM. There is a marginal return on excess VRAM beyond 256 MB, so Apple keeps it right there. Part of that is the OS X conundrum as it's not as good at games and graphics as Windows 7. However, my current MBA has stunning graphics capabilities with its shared 256 MB RAM when running Windows 7. Apple tried to remove specs from consideration, but it's only natural that a computer user wants to see higher specs to have a reason to upgrade.

Apple doesn't want us to consider specs because those specs mean very little to the end user's results and Apple wants to go cheap as possible to ensure the greatest margin on its products. Apple thinks the end user should think, I want a MacBook Air because it's thin and has a 13" display and I don't need an optical drive or bunch of ports. Or that I need a 15" display, I need an optical drive, and I need a FW port so I need a MacBook Pro. Or that I need an all-in-one solution that includes a large display so I will buy a 27" iMac. Apple thinks we should upgrade a drive if we need more drive space, or upgrade RAM if we need the RAM... but Apples main assumption is the vast majority of Mac buyers will be completely capable of running all of their applications sufficiently with any Mac they buy... and what it all comes down to is preference in terms of willing to pay for ultraportability of an MBA over an MB. Or preference of willing to pay for a 17" MBP over a 15" MBP, because one wants to work on a larger display.

As a technology/computer buyer, it's frustrating because there are marginal reasons to upgrade a Mac in terms of capabilities. Normally Apple makes incremental upgrades to each revision that don't focus on computer capabilities (sure slightly faster CPU or marginally larger HDD), but where Apple really focuses is on a new innovative concept like a unibody form factor, long lasting battery tech, backlit display, backlit keyboard, large glass trackpad, and etc. Notice all of these are what the computer user gets for their money. The CPU, RAM, drive speed, and etc are all just details as all of them will run OS X and Apple's suite of software applications.

It is different buying a PC because the competition is all judged based on which CPU is used, how fast is the CPU vs. competing product, how much RAM is used, what type of graphics are used, how fast the HD is, or how many other extra components are in one system over another system. The idea of buying a Mac is different because there aren't really any competitors to the Macs other than other Macs. With a Mac it's about the look and complete experience of using the large multi-touch trackpad, or how the extras add up to a superior experience for the end user... and for some it's even just the stability of OS X over Windows 7.

With a Vaio Z you're going to get a faster CPU, faster dedicated graphics, more VRAM, more system RAM, more drive space, and lots of fancy high-end components, but the average user doesn't need any of those to get their work accomplished. So why not save some space if we don't need that CPU? Why not have a computer that lasts longer between charges, weighs less, and is super thin like the MBA?

soph
May 5, 2010, 01:55 AM
Here's a link that gives good info on the Sony Z.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=902996

Thank you for pointing me there, it's got extremely valuable information!

soph
May 5, 2010, 02:31 AM
Man and I thought that this was going to be an actual review

Sorry,I've adjusted the title now.

I *was* looking for an actual review myself, but they're hard to find

soph
May 5, 2010, 03:59 AM
[...]If one loves an MBA and it fits all of the requirements, it's perfectly acceptable. I don't need the power of a Vaio Z.
Thank you Scottsdale, as always very well put.
It fits my current requirements, but I think the MBA is not that good investment into the future, while the Vaio Z is.

For my own benefit I wished you'd had once caved in and gotten a Vaio Z, just for comparison's sake, and shared your findings with us. :)

gwsat
May 5, 2010, 08:07 AM
Thank you Scottsdale, as always very well put.
It fits my current requirements, but I think the MBA is not that good investment into the future, while the Vaio Z is.

For my own benefit I wished you'd had once caved in and gotten a Vaio Z, just for comparison's sake, and shared your findings with us. :)
You are right that the Vaio Z is a much more current computer than the MBA. The Z, though, was introduced only recently, whereas the MBA is essentially the same computer that was introduced more than two years ago. Thus, it might make sense to wait and see what Apple does to upgrade the MBA. Still, anybody who needs a capable ultra lightweight computer right now and can do without OS X, might be well advised to select the Z. Windows 7 is rather good. I run it in a VMware Fusion virtual machine on my MBP. Nevertheless, it isn't OS X. Indeed, that's why I run Fusion in Unity mode so that Windows apps open on the OS X desktop and respond to most of the same keyboard shortcuts that native OS X apps accept.

Scottsdale
May 5, 2010, 11:36 AM
Thank you Scottsdale, as always very well put.
It fits my current requirements, but I think the MBA is not that good investment into the future, while the Vaio Z is.

For my own benefit I wished you'd had once caved in and gotten a Vaio Z, just for comparison's sake, and shared your findings with us. :)

But all the MBA needs to be "current" for the next few years is a RAM boost and a GPU upgrade to the 320m. I doubt the MBA is going to have an Nvidia 330 GT with 1 GB VRAM, Core i7-620m, 512 GB SSD, BluRay, and etc.

One has to remember the Vaio Z might only weigh a little over three pounds but it's between 1" and 1.4" thick. That is a lot of extra space over the MBA to store and cool extra components with a higher TDP.

The Vaio Z is a competitor to the MacBook Pro, not the MBA. One who needs that kind of power isn't going to be happy with an MBA.

Wait for an MBA update, and then it should be "current." But the MBA being current isn't going to be nearly as powerful as a Vaio Z. Now one that needs more power than the MBA can provide, and who wants OS X and Windows 7 capabilities needs a MBP. Those who want more power than an MBP and who are happy with just Windows 7 would be best off with a Vaio Z.

While the Vaio Z is lightweight like the MBA it's really not anywhere near the same class computer as the MBA. It's like comparing oranges (Vaio Z) and Apples.

bloodycape
May 5, 2010, 06:01 PM
Sony make fantastic products, except when it comes to computers - then it's just another PC manufacturer.

to compare Sony Vaio running Winders with an Air running Snow Leopard?
2 words:
***** v Style

Im sorry but I would have to disagree the higher end Vaio's like the Z, and older TT are different. These are few rare Sony's still built in Japan(or if you CTO in the US made in the US actually), unlike their other models that are all built and assembled in China like most manufactures, and it shows when comparing them.

frimple
May 5, 2010, 07:01 PM
While the Vaio Z is lightweight like the MBA it's really not anywhere near the same class computer as the MBA. It's like comparing oranges (Vaio Z) and Apples.

I completely disagree with this and I have a sense that you did a month ago or so. The width is the only part of your argument that puts the V in a different class, and quite honestly it shouldn't. We're talking about 3/4's of an inch difference between the machines and (though it can't be measured on the same scale) performance that at LEAST matches current MBP numbers (which by the way outweights it considerably).

So let's drop the MBP comparisons, because by any standard this is an ultra-portable laptop offering from Sony and :apple:'s only offering in that arena is the MBA. Comparing products across consumer segments is as :apple:'s to apples as it gets.

Scottsdale
May 5, 2010, 11:47 PM
I completely disagree with this and I have a sense that you did a month ago or so. The width is the only part of your argument that puts the V in a different class, and quite honestly it shouldn't. We're talking about 3/4's of an inch difference between the machines and (though it can't be measured on the same scale) performance that at LEAST matches current MBP numbers (which by the way outweights it considerably).

So let's drop the MBP comparisons, because by any standard this is an ultra-portable laptop offering from Sony and :apple:'s only offering in that arena is the MBA. Comparing products across consumer segments is as :apple:'s to apples as it gets.

Look, I am not just talking vs. weight or anything else cosmetic, I am talking POWERFUL Sony Vaio Z! It's more powerful than a MBP, and it's in that class not with the MBA! Sure the Vaio Z can be compared with the MBA by weight, but that's all that compares. In every other statistic for power/performance, the Sony Vaio Z blows away the MBA in every way and even beats the crap out of the 13" MBP... and actually more powerful/capable than a 17" MBP when we count graphics 1 GB VRAM into the mix.

One shouldn't be able to use an MBA if they need the power of the Vaio Z/MBP. The MBA is about looks and getting by with as little as is necessary in an ultraportable Mac with a full-sized display and keyboard.

I agree that I want the ultimate MBA, but that's only because I don't need the power of a 35W TDP CPU, and a 330 GT GPU with 1 GB VRAM, and etc. If I NEEDED all of that, the MBA would NOT be an option. So it's not about being thin in this case. If one wants to buy either an MBA or a Vaio Z, the Vaio Z has every advantage possible other than thickness... which does play. And since my maximum performance requirements are within the range of capabilities for the MBA, I will take the MBA based on the completely thinness and ability to run OS X without a hack. If the Vaio Z was only 1/2" thick, and still had all that power, I still wouldn't switch unless I needed that power. It's like the Mac users that want a Core i7 just to buy a Core i7, or that want a 1 GB VRAM dedicated graphics card just to buy a more capable computer. We don't have those options within the form factor of the MBA, so it doesn't factor in. Hell yes, I would love an MBA that had the capabilities of the Sony Vaio Z in the form factor of the MBA! But we're not there yet.

soph
May 6, 2010, 03:01 AM
What I mean with "investment into the future" is that in the olden days everyday programs used to inflate over 1-2 years so you literally couldn't work on a 2-year-old machine with then current software. And you were practically forced to use current software because everyone else switched, and data files were not backwards compatible. I'm speaking Windows world here, I didn't follow the Mac world way back then.

In the last decade or so I perceived a slowing of this trend, just personally and not backed up by data. You can get by with hardware one or two or even three years old, and you might even survive with 4-year-old computers if you really try. But the general trend certainly persists, as the compatibility issues of iPhoneOS 4 and early iPhones shows.

So, what I'm talking about is, I will not hesitate buying an updated MBA with somewhat more RAM and some other boosts, not because of its specs, but because in a sense that will show that Apple is willing to support the platform for another roughly 3 years (like they're dropping 1st gen iPhone now after 3 years).

For the most part even the current MBA would do fine for me, and there are some features I highly doubt will even be in the next rev. which would be nice to have and which the Vaio Z has (like more USB ports and onboard 3G).
I would give them up for the slimness, but some extra motivation (like "the Vaio is loud", "the touchpad sucks", "it's flimsy") would be appreciated ;)

soph
May 6, 2010, 03:24 AM
But all the MBA needs to be "current" for the next few years is a RAM boost and a GPU upgrade to the 320m. I doubt the MBA is going to have an Nvidia 330 GT with 1 GB VRAM, Core i7-620m, 512 GB SSD, BluRay, and etc.
[....]
While the Vaio Z is lightweight like the MBA it's really not anywhere near the same class computer as the MBA. It's like comparing oranges (Vaio Z) and Apples.

Up to now I've avoided going into specs and discussion them, but lets go: :D

First and everything is weight. That's what makes them comparable. I'll lug that computer around all day every day and I don't want to feel it and I don't want to carry a backbag for it. I'm a lady after all ;) It has to fit into my admittedly spacious shoulderbag.

Secondly I don't game, I don't do CAD, I don't do extensive simulations. I don't need raw power or speed. I don't need an i7. I don't need a helluva GPU.

Mostly I'd simply work, write, do spreadsheets, some graphics, more presentations. Email, browse the web (that's when 3G would come in handy). Sometimes, when it'd get really boring I'd have the kids watch a movie, but it's not yet a given, that I'd let their sticky finger on my shiny toy ;-) . It's a matter of priorities, peace vs impeccability (So far peace wins, as the car can tell ;) )

But, I still want to do all this in 3 years time.

jphlau
May 6, 2010, 04:12 AM
Up to now I've avoided going into specs and discussion them, but lets go: :D

First and everything is weight. That's what makes them comparable. I'll lug that computer around all day every day and I don't want to feel it and I don't want to carry a backbag for it. I'm a lady after all ;) It has to fit into my admittedly spacious shoulderbag.

Secondly I don't game, I don't do CAD, I don't do extensive simulations. I don't need raw power or speed. I don't need an i7. I don't need a helluva GPU.

Mostly I'd simply work, write, do spreadsheets, some graphics, more presentations. Email, browse the web (that's when 3G would come in handy). Sometimes, when it'd get really boring I'd have the kids watch a movie, but it's not yet a given, that I'd let their sticky finger on my shiny toy ;-) . It's a matter of priorities, peace vs impeccability (So far peace wins, as the car can tell ;) )

But, I still want to do all this in 3 years time.


I think 3g ipad will suit you the most =)

soph
May 6, 2010, 07:19 AM
I think 3g ipad will suit you the most =)

Ah, nope. :D

PsyD4Me
May 6, 2010, 07:28 AM
Ah, nope. :D

wow, i can not believe that there is a growing consensus outthere that the ipad is a laptop replacement....I have both and i just don't see it...it's simply for gaming and light email

gwsat
May 6, 2010, 09:12 AM
wow, i can not believe that there is a growing consensus outthere that the ipad is a laptop replacement....I have both and i just don't see it...it's simply for gaming and light email
True. I bought a basic 16Gb iPad shortly after they were released and think it is wonderful for light Web browsing and watching Netflix videos while wandering around within reach of wifi. Be warned, though, the iPad is not a substitute for a real computer. You still have to have the real thing for heavy email, or anything like sophisticated word processing. In short, the iPad is a niche product for use when you want to surf the Web on a large, clear screen instead of a smartphone's postage stamp size display. Indeed, that's why I really want an MBA -- if Apple will up its RAM and I can figure out a way to get by with 4Gb.

eboakes
May 6, 2010, 01:50 PM
I have had a Sony Z590 since Dec 2008. (I also have a 24" iMac.) I keep the Z590 over a MBA for the following reasons:
- I sync my iPhone and Touch to my laptop; the disk drive has to be large enough to handle my 98 GB of music and video. Regular sync'ing allows me to get podcasts onto the iPhone and Touch. The MBA's disk drive (120GB or 128GB is just too small for this) (The upside-down smart playlist bug introduced in ver iPhone/Touch ver 3.1 makes fetching podcasts directly to the iPhone impractical.)
- I regularly offload a digital camera to my laptop, using Adobe Lightroom. I also back up my photos to an external hard disk for redundancy. The MBA's disk drive is just too small.
- The MBA has only a SINGLE USB port, so reading a camera (or card reader) and backing up to an external drive cannot be done at the same time -- nor copying between two external drives.
- I use the mobile broadband modem that is built in to the Z590. I continue to be surprised that Apple has not integrated something like the Gobi multi-protocol cellular modem into the Mac laptops.
- The Z590 fits precisely into many of the flexible, neoprene protective bags that are designed for the MBA. The Z590 and MBA weigh about the same, too.
- 1600 x 900 pixels in just 13.1" (140 ppi) looks very sharp and gives plenty of area to view complicated drawings, documents, schedules and programs.

OctoberBoy
May 6, 2010, 06:10 PM
Wow, it only took 24 posts for someone to reply to SOPH's original question in the spirit it was asked.

frimple
May 6, 2010, 06:28 PM
One shouldn't be able to use an MBA if they need the power of the Vaio Z/MBP. The MBA is about looks and getting by with as little as is necessary in an ultraportable Mac with a full-sized display and keyboard.

I agree that I want the ultimate MBA, but that's only because I don't need the power of a 35W TDP CPU, and a 330 GT GPU with 1 GB VRAM, and etc. If I NEEDED all of that, the MBA would NOT be an option...

Ahh see, I find that interesting. Sony hasn't changed the ultraportable laptop game, they've just kept up. The MBA was never supposed to be a 'netbook' or 'getting by with as little as is necessary' option when it was released, quite the contrary. It was the example of what you could do with a tiny (ultraportable) laptop and it was brilliant... until they let it go so far out of date.

I do database administration and development as a job and in so have a need for virtualization and virtual machines that preform as close to physical boxes as possible. I work in windows almost exclusively (save for a little bit of Oracle and MySQL playing) so not being able to virtualize isn't really an option for me. I (I think like most people) enjoy the portability and novelty that the MBA offers, it really is a treat when you open it up and use it for the first time (or carry it in your backpack). For me this machine is off-limits as an actual work machine though. I've borrowed my boss's MBA and the only way it was usable to me was to RDP back to my workstation and do actual work there.

That being said, I also use OS X and am kind of ambivalent on it. I really am a hardware junkie and the Mac Pro, MacBook Pro and even the Air *USED* to be an amazing value for performance (performance/portability in the MBA's case)... not so much anymore. I see a trend across all of :apple:'s line that could best be called complacence I think. They're making money off of some great products, and innovating in those realms... but they're not the products that I'm interested in anymore. Maybe I'm being forced into planned obsolescence...

soph
May 7, 2010, 12:40 AM
I have had a Sony Z590 since Dec 2008. (I also have a 24" iMac.) I keep the Z590 over a MBA for the following reasons:[...]

You're adressing some of my major concerns. While I don't so much worry about disk space (I've only a 8GB iPod after all ;) ) the number of USB ports and the 3G connectivity do bug me. There's USB thingies to work around both issues, but they add to messiness.

As computer experience, how do you like your Vaio?

soph
May 7, 2010, 12:41 AM
Wow, it only took 24 posts for someone to reply to SOPH's original question in the spirit it was asked.

LOL, #4 wasn't that bad a reply either ;)

halledise
May 7, 2010, 05:16 AM
the bottom line in all of this for mine, is that regardless of specs, weight (or lack of it), and so forth -
the Sony Vaio Z-whatever runs bloody Windows -
whereas the Air is more than capable of running both OSX (a far superior OS in my most humble opinion) and also Win-bloody-dows.

thus the conclusion to my 'review' is that the Air beats all-comers :D

Huubster
May 7, 2010, 05:58 AM
the bottom line in all of this for mine, is that regardless of specs, weight (or lack of it), and so forth -
the Sony Vaio Z-whatever runs bloody Windows -
whereas the Air is more than capable of running both OSX (a far superior OS in my most humble opinion) and also Win-bloody-dows.

thus the conclusion to my 'review' is that the Air beats all-comers :D

It is obvious that for many this discussion is not about MBA vs. Vaio Z, but about OS X vs. Windows.

So instead of comparing Apples with oranges, we could install Ubuntu on both machines and then compare. Wouldn't the Vaio Z be the superior machine by 239 lightyears or so?

Les Kern
May 7, 2010, 07:59 AM
It is obvious that for many this discussion is not about MBA vs. Vaio Z, but about OS X vs. Windows.

So instead of comparing Apples with oranges, we could install Ubuntu on both machines and then compare. Wouldn't the Vaio Z be the superior machine by 239 lightyears or so?

You do have a point, that would make it a machine-only comparison. As long as OS X is put back on after and the Sony is returned :)
What's cool is that distance you picked. That's the exact distance (239.12 LY actually) to the Cepheid variable galaxy NG-217667b, discovered by Tsume Miyaki, brother in law of the founder of Sony. Was this intentional?

Huubster
May 7, 2010, 08:20 AM
You do have a point, that would make it a machine-only comparison. As long as OS X is put back on after and the Sony is returned :)?

No, I'd rather hack the Sony and instal OS X on it.

What's cool is that distance you picked. That's the exact distance (239.12 LY actually) to the Cepheid variable galaxy NG-217667b, discovered by Tsume Miyaki, brother in law of the founder of Sony. Was this intentional?

LOL. Well, The nearest galaxy to ours is about 2million lightyears away. Yes, the Sony is fast, but not so fast that it can cut a corner by 1999760.88 LY or so! :p

PsyD4Me
May 7, 2010, 08:26 AM
No, I'd rather hack the Sony and instal OS X on it.



LOL. Well, The nearest galaxy to ours is about 2million lightyears away. Yes, the Sony is fast, but not so fast that it can cut a corner by 1999760.88 LY or so! :p

No guarantees how it would run on the Sony

pruhawk
May 7, 2010, 09:36 AM
Endgadget (from vozExpress) reports

Toshiba building world's lightest 13-inch laptop with fast charging SCiB battery.

World's lightest 13 inch laptop (less than 1Kg (2.2 lbs)). Available in Core i3, i5, or i7-620 configurations with 4GB of memory, 500GB hard disk or optional 512GB SSD, 16:9 aspect ratio, USB 3.0 dock and a 2nd SCiB (Super Charged ion Battery) power source (charging to 90% in just 10 minutes).

I am looking forward to Apple's 2011 response.

DJ Kwai
May 7, 2010, 09:44 AM
I have to now wonder how this Toshiba might play in this discussion: http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/07/toshiba-building-worlds-lightest-13-inch-laptop-with-fast-charg/

EDIT: Just saw someone beat me to this by about 10 minutes!:)

Huubster
May 7, 2010, 10:55 AM
I have to now wonder how this Toshiba might play in this discussion: http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/07/toshiba-building-worlds-lightest-13-inch-laptop-with-fast-charg/

Wow, where I was already impressed by the Vaio Z...this thing is DA BOMB!
It has everything+ you can find on the old wishlists in this forum!

Scottsdale
May 7, 2010, 12:43 PM
Ahh see, I find that interesting. Sony hasn't changed the ultraportable laptop game, they've just kept up. The MBA was never supposed to be a 'netbook' or 'getting by with as little as is necessary' option when it was released, quite the contrary. It was the example of what you could do with a tiny (ultraportable) laptop and it was brilliant... until they let it go so far out of date.

I do database administration and development as a job and in so have a need for virtualization and virtual machines that preform as close to physical boxes as possible. I work in windows almost exclusively (save for a little bit of Oracle and MySQL playing) so not being able to virtualize isn't really an option for me. I (I think like most people) enjoy the portability and novelty that the MBA offers, it really is a treat when you open it up and use it for the first time (or carry it in your backpack). For me this machine is off-limits as an actual work machine though. I've borrowed my boss's MBA and the only way it was usable to me was to RDP back to my workstation and do actual work there.

That being said, I also use OS X and am kind of ambivalent on it. I really am a hardware junkie and the Mac Pro, MacBook Pro and even the Air *USED* to be an amazing value for performance (performance/portability in the MBA's case)... not so much anymore. I see a trend across all of :apple:'s line that could best be called complacence I think. They're making money off of some great products, and innovating in those realms... but they're not the products that I'm interested in anymore. Maybe I'm being forced into planned obsolescence...

I disagree about the MBA. I do believe it's about using as little power and performance as is necessary to keep the weight and thickness down. It is about giving the user the complete footprint and full-sized display and keyboard, yet minimizing the weight and thickness. The MBA has been successful because it's a true Mac, yet it doesn't have any extras that aren't needed. The MBA is truly a MacBook! It does everything the mobile professional could need from his or her MB. It provides, looks, and feels better than a netbook because it tricks the user into thinking he or she is using a MB while actually using it. It "tricks" them because it has a full-sized LED backlit display, full-sized keyboard, backlit keyboard, large trackpad, capable CPU w/6 MB L2 cache, DDR3 RAM, SATA-II SSD that makes it feel extremely fast, and etc. However, they benefit completely when they're holding or carrying the ultra-lightweight computer. It has all the benefits of the real deal yet is extremely portable. Apple got rid of the optical drive, 35W TDP CPU, 2.5" drive, two RAM slots, and extra battery. By removing those items, Apple got the weight and space down to as little as necessary but yet still providing the Mac EXPERIENCE.

skunnykart
May 7, 2010, 11:05 PM
I don't own a MBA but I do own a Vaio Z.

In all fairness, the Vaio Z is a good laptop.

It's light, superior screen, mine came with a blu-ray burner, HDMI output, great keyboard (surely they copied apple!). I loved the switch to go from crappy intel graphics to nvidia and back.

But, it's crazy fragile! Yes the carbon fibre is durable but it's so flexible. You can literally press the body of the Z between your fingers and feel it crunch!
And sadly, it's not well protected under the hood.

It gets really hot too. And the fan is almost constantly on, at least gently and when you go full on performance, the fan also goes full on crazy too.

The heat coming out of the fan vent is mega hot. It's best not to keep anything near by.

The worst thing about it is the bloatware rubbish that comes with it, and some of it you just can't get rid of because your vaio will depend on it to control certain vaio specific features like the performance switch and so forth.

All in all, some awesome engineering to get the weight down but sacrificed too much for it. And absolutely no thought put into making it user friendly.

entatlrg
May 7, 2010, 11:22 PM
I don't own a MBA but I do own a Vaio Z.

In all fairness, the Vaio Z is a good laptop.

It's light, superior screen, mine came with a blu-ray burner, HDMI output, great keyboard (surely they copied apple!). I loved the switch to go from crappy intel graphics to nvidia and back.

But, it's crazy fragile! Yes the carbon fibre is durable but it's so flexible. You can literally press the body of the Z between your fingers and feel it crunch!
And sadly, it's not well protected under the hood.

It gets really hot too. And the fan is almost constantly on, at least gently and when you go full on performance, the fan also goes full on crazy too.

The heat coming out of the fan vent is mega hot. It's best not to keep anything near by.

The worst thing about it is the bloatware rubbish that comes with it, and some of it you just can't get rid of because your vaio will depend on it to control certain vaio specific features like the performance switch and so forth.

All in all, some awesome engineering to get the weight down but sacrificed too much for it. And absolutely no thought put into making it user friendly.

EXCELLENT comments/review there, well said. As a former Z owner as of about a week ago you nailed it bang on.

I was used to a superior screen on the '08 and '09 Sony Z's we purchased but the screen they put on the 2010 Z's are sub par. Surprising too considering they're super high resolution on such a small 13" screen.

The viewing angle/contrast dark spots when you move your head a few inches was the problem. Color was good, screen was clear but has that darker / shadowy / anti glare film look to it.

Some of the expert reviews online reference the same concerns I had with the screen.

I'm glad to be past the Sony Z experience and back to my Mac's :)

I'm using my 15" MBP mostly now, I'd use a 13" MBP full time long before I'd choose a Z, I'd deal with the 1.5lbs extra in weight for the more pleasant user experience you get from using the MBP, or I'd take the Air ahead of the Z and just deal with it's shortcomings.

I swore I'd never buy Sony again, I heard so much about the new 2010 Z I had to try it myself - complete waste of time for me. I've learned my lesson the second time around :apple:

MadMitch89
May 7, 2010, 11:33 PM
Apple copied Sony for the keyboard style. Sony was the first to release a laptop with individual key design.

skunnykart
May 8, 2010, 12:04 AM
Apple copied Sony for the keyboard style. Sony was the first to release a laptop with individual key design.

Yeah, such a great keyboard! What I meant by it is that surely it was sony that copied apple and not the other way around since it's such a great idea!

And the keyboard is one of the best things about the Z.
Love it. It's actually on a bit of an incline too which makes it easier (personally for me) for typing.

And ENTATIRG, I have never used the 2010 model but I have heard some good things about the dual and quad SSDs. Super fast write speeds.

At the end of the day for the thread starter, it really boils down to OSX vs Windows.

Even if the Vaio Z is the perfect machine for you in terms of specs and ergonomics, if you don't like windows then you're never going to like the Z.

MadMitch89
May 8, 2010, 12:16 AM
Yeah, such a great keyboard! What I meant by it is that surely it was sony that copied apple and not the other way around since it's such a great idea!

That makes no sense. Apple copied the idea of Sony. Not everything you consider a good idea is Apple borne.

skunnykart
May 8, 2010, 12:29 AM
That makes no sense. Apple copied the idea of Sony. Not everything you consider a good idea is Apple borne.

I'm sorry if I offended you with my unreasonable love for Apple.
I also apologise for not making my statements clear enough. I'm not much of a wordsmith.

Sony did the keyboard thing before Apple, but my unreasonable love for Apple wishes that it be the other way around, that Sony copied Apple. This sentiment is what I attempted to capture when I said that 'surely Sony copied Apple!'.

ChrisA
May 8, 2010, 12:56 AM
...
What I would like to read is long-time experience (say, upwards a week for each ;-) ), and what differences you found between the Vaio Z and the MBA.
...

They are not even comparable. One runs Max OS X and the other Windows.

If you buy the Sony you can't run any Mac OS X software. However if there is some Windows software you must have then the Mac can run it.

It all comes down to what software you need to use. Little things like fan noise and heat and the thickness of the plastic or un-important details compared to software.

As an example (may not apply to you) I use both Aperture and Logic. So even if some one gave me a Windows PC free I'd have not use for it as it could not run the software I use.

Huubster
May 8, 2010, 01:47 AM
They are not even comparable. One runs Max OS X and the other Windows.

This I find the biggest recurring shortsightedness in this type of thread.

A Mac or a PC can both run Ubunty instead. Ubuntu, which is a Linux OS, is just like OS X a Unix variety. And many things you like in OS X and mis in Windows can be found in Ubuntu as well. And it's free!

///M5
May 8, 2010, 12:14 PM
I have both, Rev. B MBA with SSD and the Vaio Z.

I haven't used Windows since XP, then switched to Apple, and now I'm back to Windows 7. Frankly, I love this OS, especially the taskbar, it simply blows the "Dock" away. And Windows 7 is pretty damn stable so far. *knocks on wood*

The Air is frustrating when it comes to heavy use. It's thin and all, but I don't mine carrying a tad thicker laptop, the Vaio Z (with the specs in my signature), to be able to do literally everything on it on the go. I run 3 VM plus Windows apps, this thing is a powerhouse.

I've had my Z for a month now, and haven't used the MBA for, well, a month now!

I can manage to squeeze 4-5 hours battery life, which is pretty decent.

And oh, Love the FHD screen.

PsyD4Me
May 8, 2010, 12:33 PM
I have both, Rev. B MBA with SSD and the Vaio Z.

I haven't used Windows since XP, then switched to Apple, and now I'm back to Windows 7. Frankly, I love this OS, especially the taskbar, it simply blows the "Dock" away. And Windows 7 is pretty damn stable so far. *knocks on wood*

The Air is frustrating when it comes to heavy use. It's thin and all, but I don't mine carrying a tad thicker laptop, the Vaio Z (with the specs in my signature), to be able to do literally everything on it on the go. I run 3 VM plus Windows apps, this thing is a powerhouse.

I've had my Z for a month now, and haven't used the MBA for, well, a month now!

I can manage to squeeze 4-5 hours battery life, which is pretty decent.

And oh, Love the FHD screen.

Interesting, you and the poster above posted somewhat contrasting reviews, he is concerned with overheating and durability while you are satisfied with those factors...

Huubster
May 8, 2010, 12:54 PM
Interesting, you and the poster above posted somewhat contrasting reviews, he is concerned with overheating and durability while you are satisfied with those factors...

Interesting indeed. And Windows 7 does seem to be a huge step forward compared to the Vista debacle. It is something I have often read in press and user reviews.

Ubuntu with Windows 7 in a virtual machine perhaps? :p
I am relay playing with the thought, but I keep my promise and I will wait till the end of June for an MBA update.

bloodycape
May 8, 2010, 05:53 PM
I don't own the Vaio Z, but I do own the Vaio TT also made out out carbon fiber and I can't say the device is flimsy or fragile. I can actually hold device from its screen without much of a worry(I rarely do it but still), which is something I could never do with my 12in iBook or or first gen 15in MBP. I actually prefer the build quality of my TT over my iBook and give it the edge over the MBP(metal is flaking off or something). I will say it is kind of a dust magnet, but that could be due to the color showing dust more? I also, really like the fact that the Z and the TT screen come with a matte-ish screen, which is turning to become more rare in the 13in and below category.

pharmx
May 8, 2010, 05:58 PM
This I find the biggest recurring shortsightedness in this type of thread.

A Mac or a PC can both run Ubunty instead. Ubuntu, which is a Linux OS, is just like OS X a Unix variety. And many things you like in OS X and mis in Windows can be found in Ubuntu as well. And it's free!


Some people choose Mac for the build quality.
Some people choose Mac for the OS.
And some people choose Mac for the "Mac experience" which is basically a combination of the two things above.

In my opinion, Ubuntu is only an option for people in the first category. Until it gets a bit more mainstream, I think it's more geared towards the DIY crowd that feels comfortable and even enjoys tweaking software/hardware. The average consumer has enough trouble with basic computer skills, never mind anything at a higher level!

On a side note, I think it's pretty sad that people are having to choose a Mac they are not happy with, based solely on the fact that they need Mac OS X. While I understand Apple's reasoning behind this, it made more sense back when their focus and priorities were different.

From a hardware perspective, other companies seem to be catching up or even surpassing Apple, depending on how you value specs/design/build.

From a software perspective, Windows 7 seems to offer some real competition to Mac OS X for Mac owners. The amount of people willingly running Windows 7 on their Mac, and in some cases even preferring it to OS X for certain tasks, is a testament to this. To me this is a very alarming trend that can have severe long term consequences. Of course, if the goal is to slowly transition out of the "computer" category and focus their resources on the "mobility" category, then this would be one way to do it.

I'm starting to worry that Apple is spreading itself too thin, and that we'll start seeing an increasing amount of compromises, as focus is shifted from innovation to whatever brings in the most revenue. Sometimes there is an overlap, and a perfect balance can be achieved. But unless Apple is betting their entire future on mobile devices running iPhone OS...I really hope that we will see some amazing things soon, announced either at WWDC or for their 2011 lineup.

I can only hope that they remember their roots, and don't end up becoming the type of company that they were originally trying to rebel against.

/endrant (sorry for straying off topic!)

OctoberBoy
May 9, 2010, 05:26 AM
Interesting, you and the poster above posted somewhat contrasting reviews, he is concerned with overheating and durability while you are satisfied with those factors...


Though they are both Z series, one is a previous generation (based on the signature) while the other is the current.

Huubster
May 9, 2010, 06:44 AM
/endrant (sorry for straying off topic!)

I don't think that you went off topic. You described perfectly why a Vaio Z can't be compared with an MBA. We can compare the hardware as much as we like. But in the end it's mostly about being hooked to OS X. (Or trapped by OS X?)

One aspect I don't agree with. Ubuntu has come a long way. It is geeks who created it, but it is no longer a geeks OS. It has become very professional. Runs smooth without any tweaks and with excellent drivers. Has a lot of highly acclaimed free software, and has a snappy feel which is closer to OS X than to Windows. And all the no-viruses, built-in-dictionaries, non-bloated etc. arguments apply to Ubuntu as well.

Ubuntu with Windows 7 in a virtual machine is the path I consider, but for now I'll keep my promise and wait till the end of June for MBA updates before I decide. It would be a big step for me to let OS X go, but I don't want to be part of this plan.

From my pov. Apple has already moved to the dark side. And as it is with the dark side, it is very difficult to escape it. The free world of Ubuntu with a Vaio Z or an equivalent (the new rumored Toshiba?) seems more and more the only way out for me.

In any case, think past the OS, and for me the Vaio Z wins hands down.

Interesting read. Ubuntu's Linux OS -- Mac OS X's Doppelganger? (http://www.serverwatch.com/trends/article.php/3878846/Ubuntus-Linux-OS----Mac-OS-Xs-Doppelganger.htm)

skunnykart
May 9, 2010, 09:44 PM
Though they are both Z series, one is a previous generation (based on the signature) while the other is the current.

Yeah and there is big difference with the previous gen Z (the one I have) and the current models with the dual or quad SSD.

I have not used the current Z models but I have seen it at the shops BUT the build quality seems to be the same as the previous gen model that I have. The same crunchy feeling when you press on it!

But I have heard from the guys working at the store that the heat issue has been addressed (not sure if this is true) but they told me that with the SSD, there is less heat produced and so less heat means less fan activity and less noise as a result.

Also apparently the new models ship with a dvd drive that produces less heat than the blu-ray drives that some of the previous models had.

If the heat issue is indeed fixed then that's a big plus for the Z but the build quality is still the same.

I would love to see some comparisons between the MBA SSD vs the Z dual or quad SSD. Anyone?

soph
May 10, 2010, 04:51 AM
Thanks, people, there've been some really great contributions added. Gives me a lot to think.

You don't need to stop now either :cool:

fr4c
May 10, 2010, 10:52 PM
I'm really hoping an MBA update comes soon, because I really love the portability and size factor of the Vaio Z. It is a wonderful laptop, but the laptop feels so fragile (flex in the screen) that I'm often afraid to carry it out and use it.

Capt Crunch
May 16, 2010, 09:18 AM
What one really needs to determine is which computer will fit all of their needs and still has the greatest marginal utility.

I'm just being a dick, but marginal utility refers to the derivative of the utility function. You want to maximize utility, not marginal utility. :)

Scottsdale
May 16, 2010, 01:14 PM
I'm just being a dick, but marginal utility refers to the derivative of the utility function. You want to maximize utility, not marginal utility. :)

That's correct. My bad, LOL.

buddy1065
May 16, 2010, 05:02 PM
For my needs there are two problems with the Z; eyetv does not work with it and other people, including me are reporting nVidia driver issues, which hopefully will be straightened out soon. Good points are that the fan moves heat effectively and leaves the rest of the laptop comfortable even under heavy load. Since I am retired and don't do as much video editing the Z is otherwise perfect for me.
And having a MBP 15" serving as a desktop replacement makes it all the more great. The aluminum keyboard makes it more rigid, although not as sturdy as a MBP. Perhaps i would have regrets when the new MBA comes out but for now I would not switch out with any other ultralight Mac or PC. I love both PC's and Macs and see nothing wrong with that. 3 lbs and that much power and ports, plus internal DVD was just too much of an offer to refuse for me. So other than the eyetv software issue, basically the othe nVidia issue is relatively minor, leaving my with no big regrets.

gvsbdisco
May 17, 2010, 11:58 AM
i have been a mac user for about 6 or 7 years. Over that time, I have used macs exclusively including: ibook G4, iMac G5, Macbook, 15" Macbook Pro. In general, I have been happy with both the hardware and software.

However, wants and needs changed over time and I wanted and needed an ultraportable and the decision to buy a Sony Z was fairly easy. Apple doesn't have a machine that is comparable in this space. Yes, moving to W7 was a bit tricky at first but within a week you get used to it. For work, I don't rely on any software that is only available on OSX so that was not an issue.

My biggest gripe about the Sony (and my wife's as well) is the power brick...its big and unwieldy compared to the macs. The cord is stiff not soft and supple and it can't be shortened. Crazy I know, but when I look at and use the sony I think "what a great machine but I can't believe they couldn't improve the design of the power brick" Its an embarrassment for a machine of that calibre. It makes you appreciate the small things Apple does in designing its technology.

burp
May 17, 2010, 01:55 PM
My biggest gripe about the Sony (and my wife's as well) is the power brick...its big and unwieldy compared to the macs. The cord is stiff not soft and supple and it can't be shortened. Crazy I know, but when I look at and use the sony I think "what a great machine but I can't believe they couldn't improve the design of the power brick" Its an embarrassment for a machine of that calibre. It makes you appreciate the small things Apple does in designing its technology.

i agree, the devil is in the details, you cannot beat apple in this respect.
luckily the power brick of the Z is not massive, but a square section would definitely help.
i'm looking for a shorter and thinner chord to mitigate the issue.

i would add another point, for its flagship model sony could have chosen an higher res webcam..

on the other hand, the more i use this machine, the more i like it.

teaneedz
May 17, 2010, 03:13 PM
This I find the biggest recurring shortsightedness in this type of thread.

A Mac or a PC can both run Ubunty instead. Ubuntu, which is a Linux OS, is just like OS X a Unix variety. And many things you like in OS X and mis in Windows can be found in Ubuntu as well. And it's free!

I'm definitely looking at the Z (dump WIn7) and go strictly Ubuntu. I'm typing this on Ubuntu 10.04 (son's HP) and am liking Ubuntu very much. Apple does a great job with integration and the UI but at the end of the day OS X is a flavor of UNIX. Ubuntu is a flavor of Linux. Both in my eyes = stability and choices especially when one gets to the command-line. I have enjoyed OS X since day one but want the hardware to match the OS. The GUI in Ubuntu is looking very slick and very customizable. I can visualize it on the Z. I'd prefer to stay with Apple but right now the product line is not quite right for me.

Tough choice for me because I like OS X so much and my PB has been so good to me. But Ubuntu may be the answer with it's Linux stability and choices. I wouldn't recommend this option for those that want it to work out of the box but for me, right now it may be my next OS.

canisestinvia
May 19, 2010, 01:31 PM
I think whomever has the decision to make regarding the Z has to handle it in person first before making the purchase. The biggest issue for me is the flex and feeling that it's so fragile.

My expectations for a laptop is that I be able to grab and go - no special protective cases, no special handling techniques. With the Z, I wouldn't be comfortable closing the lid in the middle with one hand and then tossing into my briefcase. And I say briefcase, because I dont use a special padded laptop bag. There would be a constant fear of something crushing the lid/screen of the Z.

I was hoping I'd like the Z because of battery life and weight. But I am too carefree with my equipment that I wouldn't trust the Z to last 2 months of my handling.

makeyourfaith
May 19, 2010, 04:53 PM
I love my 12" powerbook, even though it maxes out at 1.25GB RAM. But I really do need to upgrade. I'm weighing the responses here, go with a MBA, a Vaio Z hackintosh, or hold onto my powerbook? I have to say, i really hate the MBP 13. I use the trackpad exclusively, and the MBP pad is just terrible without a real button to click. I've tired the MBP 13, and it took double the thumb pressure to 'click' that invisible button. Carpal Tunnel here we come... Plus the size and weight of the MBP just doesn't appeal to me. Conundrum for sure :)

I'm a professional graphic designer, still clinging to my 12" Powerbook. I know, I'm an anomaly, but i use what i like. i can run Illustrator and Photoshop just fine, but the machine really slows down with YouTube, Vimeo, etc. And that's really annoying. I'd hackintosh a Vaio Z if anybody out there has any info about it? I'd loooove 8GB RAM, and a 500GB SSD :)

Huubster
May 19, 2010, 05:25 PM
Tough choice for me because I like OS X so much and my PB has been so good to me. But Ubuntu may be the answer with it's Linux stability and choices. I wouldn't recommend this option for those that want it to work out of the box but for me, right now it may be my next OS.

Well said. I'd hate to let OS X go. But time's running out for me. I have read many "if not WWDC than a major in half a year" posts. But it's simply becoming too much...and who gives me the guarantee that the "in half a year" analysis/rumors/assumptions/dreams/phantasies will actually not go down the powerbook route?

I was hoping I'd like the Z because of battery life and weight. But I am too carefree with my equipment that I wouldn't trust the Z to last 2 months of my handling.

Perhaps you are right. I had one in my hands today, it does feel a bit more "plastic" than the MBA. However, the MBA has its weaknesses too. Many fan problems (I had to replace the fan) and uncountable hinge problems for example. All you need to do is read the forums. I cannot confirm reported screen brightness problems for the Vaio Z (the display is BRILLIANT) and it does seem decently built.

btw. I tested the latest Ubuntu version on my MBA and it works great and Unix-ish smooth without any fiddling or fine-tuning. It actually feels lighter than OS X!

My Vaio Z with Ubuntu countdown has 40 days left...

Jason Beck
May 19, 2010, 05:43 PM
I'm a longtime lurker, so I'm quite familiar with every tiny little aspect of updates or no updates and hardware specs of the MBA vs the Sony Vaio Z.


So you admit your a troll then.
If you are familiar with all the nooks and crannies... why start a stupid thread like this? Honestly.
Apples to Oranges again?

Again? 4Really?

Huubster
May 19, 2010, 06:00 PM
So you admit your a troll then.
If you are familiar with all the nooks and crannies... why start a stupid thread like this? Honestly.
Apples to Oranges again?

Again? 4Really?

Agreed. As long as we continue to compare OS X with Windows it's Apples and Oranges.

Look beyond that endless and futile discussion and this can't possibly be called trolling.

canisestinvia
May 19, 2010, 07:00 PM
Perhaps you are right. I had one in my hands today, it does feel a bit more "plastic" than the MBA. However, the MBA has its weaknesses too. Many fan problems (I had to replace the fan) and uncountable hinge problems for example. All you need to do is read the forums.


Yes, which is partly why I held off on the air. Biggest reason being I'm hoping for more battery life out of the next update. 5 hrs is not enough for a laptop meant for travel.

teaneedz
May 19, 2010, 08:16 PM
Well after researching the Z a bit, I'm back to waiting ... Apparently Ubuntu or any Linux distro will require lots of fine tuning just to get basic components operational at this point in the game. No TRIM support for the SSDs in RAID - perhaps another big downside unless some other solution becomes available. There also appears to be a battery drain issue which may or may not have been resolved on the Z.

I'm back to waiting for now ... Apple will need another solution to C2D if it wishes to remain competitive. End of life technology just won't cut it. I won't pony up to the 15" because it's not the size I need or want. With the recent MB refresh, the MBP is just looking a bit too entry level right now. Come on Apple, do something to wow me.

It's a waiting game for now ... for me anyways.

teaneedz
May 19, 2010, 08:26 PM
I love my 12" powerbook, even though it maxes out at 1.25GB RAM.... I know, I'm an anomaly, but i use what i like. i can run Illustrator and Photoshop just fine, but the machine really slows down with YouTube, Vimeo, etc. And that's really annoying. I'd hackintosh a Vaio Z if anybody out there has any info about it? I'd loooove 8GB RAM, and a 500GB SSD :)

Not so much an anomaly ... right there with ya ... the 12" PB was just right for me and in many ways still is. But it's becoming a bit long in the tooth. But I can wait a bit longer. Come on Apple, hear our needs.

entatlrg
May 19, 2010, 08:39 PM
Well after researching the Z a bit, I'm back to waiting ... Apparently Ubuntu or any Linux distro will require lots of fine tuning just to get basic components operational at this point in the game. No TRIM support for the SSDs in RAID - perhaps another big downside unless some other solution becomes available. There also appears to be a battery drain issue which may or may not have been resolved on the Z.

I'm back to waiting for now ... Apple will need another solution to C2D if it wishes to remain competitive. End of life technology just won't cut it. I won't pony up to the 15" because it's not the size I need or want. With the recent MB refresh, the MBP is just looking a bit too entry level right now. Come on Apple, do something to wow me.

It's a waiting game for now ... for me anyways.

Yes, you have to wonder if Apple got caught up on the wrong side of the Intel / Nvidia dispute and that's caused delays or the iPad, new iPhone has clouded their judgment so much that they're just not focusing on the Air right now ...?

Not so much an anomaly ... right there with ya ... the 12" PB was just right for me and in many ways still is. But it's becoming a bit long in the tooth. But I can wait a bit longer. Come on Apple, hear our needs.

There sure is a LOT of power book lovers out there, so many used it as their main machine, but how did you guys get by with the small 12" screen?

teaneedz
May 19, 2010, 09:37 PM
There sure is a LOT of power book lovers out there, so many used it as their main machine, but how did you guys get by with the small 12" screen?

Ahh, that small screen really worked for me. Able to take it out anywhere, perhaps making things a bit more productive. I never had to hesitate on deciding should I carry it with me. And the power ... well back then anyways.

Apple does such a great job with the user experience and quality builds (after Rev A). I'd like to believe that they have something on the board that will make sense in the near future.

The 13" MBP will probably be my choice but not right now. The Linux folks though move fast and I won't be surprised if Ubuntu is working on the Z before Apple refreshes again. Then if the TRIM SSD and battery issues are solved, well ... I'll probably still end up with Apple lol.

Spent time today teaching Norton how to play nice with Windows 7 on son's school laptop. So nice to return to OS X.

soph
May 20, 2010, 06:35 AM
So you admit your a troll then.
If you are familiar with all the nooks and crannies... why start a stupid thread like this? Honestly.
Apples to Oranges again?


I'll not lower myself to personal attacks, but want to remark on a purely factual note that according to your signture you own neiter MBA nor Vaio Z. I don't know what infomation regarding my question I could receive from you.

I was specifically not asking for a comparison of Apples vs Oranges, and while it might have been foreseeable some people would respond in that fashion I estimate the overall percentage of operating system squabble in that thread is advancing nil, not considering your valuable contribution.

gwsat
May 20, 2010, 09:34 AM
I'll not lower myself to personal attacks, but want to remark on a purely factual note that according to your signture you own neiter MBA nor Vaio Z. I don't know what infomation regarding my question I could receive from you.

I was specifically not asking for a comparison of Apples vs Oranges, and while it might have been foreseeable some people would respond in that fashion I estimate the overall percentage of operating system squabble in that thread is advancing nil, not considering your valuable contribution.
The question you asked at the start of the thread was a perfectly reasonable one. Neither the recently updated MBPs nor the obsolescent MBA offers hardware that is in the same world with that which the recently released Sony Vaio Z offers. Consequently, your interest in the Z made sense, to me at least. Frankly, I was shocked and amazed that some of the fanboys here, who I believe should have known better, are so defensive, they called you a "troll" for having asked a reasonable question.

I am not much interested in a Z. My MBP has spoiled me because it runs both OS X and Windows apps from the OS X desktop thanks to VMware Fusion's Unity mode. Despite the relative weakness of Apple's hardware compared to that of some Windows laptop manufacturers, the MBP is still the best choice for me. Neither the Z, nor any other Windows machine, can run OS X without a hack. That eliminates such machines from my consideration, and that's without even getting into the Mac's superior build quality and Apple's excellent customer service. Thus, I am still holding out for an updated MBA that will allow me to use it as I now use my MBP.

Huubster
May 21, 2010, 05:52 AM
Apparently Ubuntu or any Linux distro will require lots of fine tuning just to get basic components operational at this point in the game.

I tried Ubuntu on my MBA and it installed itself as easily as OS X. And it was fully operational using all features of my MBA. No tweaks.

Perhaps Ubuntu was "fiddly" in older times. That's where the reputation may come from. But Ubuntu has come a very long way in the past years. Can't tell for other Linux varieties.

EDIT: Obviously not so easy. Give it a few months and it should be sorted by the Linux community.
http://questier.com/tag/vaio-z/

bloodycape
May 21, 2010, 03:16 PM
I forgot where I read it, but I heard that Linux Mint(a very nice Ubuntu variant) worked better/with out driver issues on a few of the current Sony models.

TinFury
Aug 26, 2010, 09:16 PM
ROTFL..... I love reading these posts.... .what truely posseses Mac users? The Sony Z has too much power for the average user? Next you'll be saying the Z's too small..... ROTFL!!!!! SWEET!

Mac...... now build for average users......
Sony......Z.... built for DemiGods....... I just got mine.

gwsat
Aug 26, 2010, 09:26 PM
ROTFL..... I love reading these posts.... .what truely posseses Mac users? The Sony Z has too much power for the average user? Next you'll be saying the Z's too small..... ROTFL!!!!! SWEET!

Mac...... now build for average users......
Sony......Z.... built for DemiGods....... I just got mine.
I rather like Windows 7 myself and run several Window apps in tandem with OS X apps, thanks to VMware Fusion in Unity mode. Further, I appreciate that the Z is light and has a lot of power. Tell us, though, how well the Z, or any Windows machine for that matter, runs OS X and Windows apps simultaneously.:)

PsyD4Me
Aug 26, 2010, 09:34 PM
ROTFL..... I love reading these posts.... .what truely posseses Mac users? The Sony Z has too much power for the average user? Next you'll be saying the Z's too small..... ROTFL!!!!! SWEET!

Mac...... now build for average users......


I never wanted to admit to it, but apple has really become a cookie cutter company...I guess their marketing team got what they wanted.

TinFury
Aug 26, 2010, 09:34 PM
I rather like Windows 7 myself and run several Window apps in tandem with OS X apps, thanks to VMware Fusion in Unity mode. Further, I appreciate that the Z is light and has a lot of power. Tell us, though, how well the Z, or any Windows machine for that matter, runs OS X and Windows apps simultaneously.:)

I run windows for finance microsoft dynamics and gaming...... I get the work done...... I run linux (ubntu server) on a couple machines because linux servers a purpose..... I use VMWare too....

But I don't run Mac...... I don't see a reason to either as I'm not really influenced by the branding, the hardware is ok but not impressive. I don't see many advantages but I do see some disadvantages... I have too much work to use a brand to fight the man..... if there is another reason please inform me. I'd like to know.

HLdan
Aug 26, 2010, 10:48 PM
ROTFL..... I love reading these posts.... .what truely posseses Mac users? The Sony Z has too much power for the average user? Next you'll be saying the Z's too small..... ROTFL!!!!! SWEET!

Mac...... now build for average users......
Sony......Z.... built for DemiGods....... I just got mine.

And they say that people don't register here with an agenda. :rolleyes:

gwsat
Aug 27, 2010, 08:21 AM
I run windows for finance microsoft dynamics and gaming...... I get the work done...... I run linux (ubntu server) on a couple machines because linux servers a purpose..... I use VMWare too....

But I don't run Mac...... I don't see a reason to either as I'm not really influenced by the branding, the hardware is ok but not impressive. I don't see many advantages but I do see some disadvantages... I have too much work to use a brand to fight the man..... if there is another reason please inform me. I'd like to know.
OS X's unique advantage is its ability to run both Windows and OS X apps from the OS X dock. When a Windows machine is introduced that can do that, too, without a hack and using commercial software, I will no doubt be very interested. That hasn't happened, though, so I am not interested and will stick with Macs, which can do that. Like Apple says, "It just works.!"

I should add that I didn't start buying Macs "to fight the man," or for any other political reason. I bought my first Mac, a 17 inch Powerbook G4, in 2003 because it was the only 17 inch laptop available at the time. I fell iin love with OS X because of its ease of use and relative immunity from malware. I stick with Macs because, for the moment at least, they are the only computers that will do everything I need out of the box.

hitekalex
Aug 27, 2010, 02:37 PM
OS X's unique advantage is its ability to run both Windows and OS X apps from the OS X dock. When a Windows machine is introduced that can do that, too, without a hack and using commercial software, I will no doubt be very interested.

I think the point is.. there are very few Mac apps for which there's no Windows equivalent.. while there are still a LOT of Windows apps for which there is no Mac equivalent. So if you have a Windows machine, there is very little need to run Mac OS side-by-side, while the reverse isn't true.

I love Mac as much as the next guy, but I still need Fusion with WinXP on my Mac.. because there are many things I need that cannot be done in a native MacOS environment. But if I switched to Windows 7 - I would have no need for MacOS.

gwsat
Aug 27, 2010, 08:29 PM
I think the point is.. there are very few Mac apps for which there's no Windows equivalent.. while there are still a LOT of Windows apps for which there is no Mac equivalent. So if you have a Windows machine, there is very little need to run Mac OS side-by-side, while the reverse isn't true.

I love Mac as much as the next guy, but I still need Fusion with WinXP on my Mac.. because there are many things I need that cannot be done in a native MacOS environment. But if I switched to Windows 7 - I would have no need for MacOS.
I can't disagree that there are serviceable Windows equivalent programs that will serve the same purpose as their OS X equivalents. My fondness for Mac machines, though, in addition to their ability to run Windows and OS X apps simultaneously, is that there is no operating system as intuitive, reliable, and free of malware problems as OS X. Windows 7 is the best MS has been able to do yet and it's not bad. Still, compared to OS X it is about as intuitive as a Rubik's Cube and nearly daily updates are required to keep it more or less free of malware.

TSE
Aug 28, 2010, 11:50 AM
MacBook Air is outdated, Sony Z is fairly new. Let's wait for the next Air and then compare.

I really think if the MacBook Air loses the bezel and stays 13", similar to the 12" PowerBook G4, it would be a winner and I might actually consider it for next year when I go off to college. The only other ultraportable I am considering right now is the X201 because of it's insane battery life, good build quality, and the size to performance ratio.

TinFury
Aug 28, 2010, 06:48 PM
Thanks for the replys. The only point I can see is that if I have cronic problems with Malware I should switch to Mac.

I've actually never had problems with malware personally and I've been online for.... over 16 years.

moodor
Aug 29, 2010, 05:50 AM
Thanks for the replys. The only point I can see is that if I have cronic problems with Malware I should switch to Mac.

I've actually never had problems with malware personally and I've been online for.... over 16 years.


I don't agree that the only point in switching to Mac is if you have chronic problems with malware, but I certainly agree that the argument surrounding Windows and viruses is given too much weight. I, like you, have never in my life had an issue with Windows in terms of malware/viruses and so when I hear this used in a pro-Mac discourse I have to a smile a bit. It's not hard at all to keep your (Windows) computer safe and you simply have to learn about what's harmful out there to keep everything in order.

The reason why I am planning on switching to Mac is because I plan on learning and practising new audio recording skills. I've tried various combinations on Windows but I've been struck by the ease and user-friendliness of Mac based software.

hitekalex
Aug 29, 2010, 12:39 PM
there is no operating system as intuitive, reliable, and free of malware problems as OS X. Windows 7 is the best MS has been able to do yet and it's not bad. Still, compared to OS X it is about as intuitive as a Rubik's Cube

Not to start another Mac vs Windows debate, but what you state is a highly subjective opinion.. not really based on any sort of fact. I find both Win7 and MacOS perfectly intuitive.. many people with years of working with Windows don't find MacOS all that intuitive.. and visa versa. Functionally, both OS's are pretty much equal these days - the whole argument about "intuitiveness" just comes down to personal preferences and what you're used to.

nearly daily updates are required to keep it more or less free of malware.

The whole "Windows malware" issue is GROSSLY blown out of proportion. Keeping Windows machine malware free requires very little effort and reasonable degree of common sense.

gwsat
Aug 29, 2010, 01:34 PM
Not to start another Mac vs Windows debate, but what you state is a highly subjective opinion.. not really based on any sort of fact. I find both Win7 and MacOS perfectly intuitive.. many people with years of working with Windows don't find MacOS all that intuitive.. and visa versa. Functionally, both OS's are pretty much equal these days - the whole argument about "intuitiveness" just comes down to personal preferences and what you're used to.

The whole "Windows malware" issue is GROSSLY blown out of proportion. Keeping Windows machine malware free requires very little effort and reasonable degree of common sense.
Although I do prefer OS X to Windows 7, I agree with you that Windows 7 is a good OS and MS does a lot better job these days of helping us keep it free of malware, thanks to its frequent updates of the definitions used by its antivirus utility. Still I hate the Windows desktop and find it far less intuitive than OS X. That's why having the ability to run both Windows and OS X apps from the OS X desktop has been such a good thing for me. Why should I limit myself to one OS's apps when I can have two and use them simultaneously, to boot? I assume that you have never run Windows in tandem with OS X. If I hadn't done so, either, I might agree with you. As it is, though, Mac remains the only game in town that will satisfy my requirements.

buddy1065
Sep 5, 2010, 07:15 AM
Good point gwsat. I would choose OSX over Windows 7 hands down, simply because one could run both on a Mac, however Apple still does not have the updated MBA, so I am using a MBP as a desktop replacement and a Sony Z as my mobile laptop. I'm still happy I made this decision about 6 months ago because I still have both operating systems at my disposal. I am wondering why it is still taking so long to update the MBA, or if it will be cut from the Apple laptop line eventually. I don't need either for work, being retired, so there is less stress to base my buying decisions professionally; I rather base my buying on enjoyment. In short I am having much fun with the speed and light weight of the Z for now. With free Microsoft Essentials as my anti virus software and free Malwarebytes as my malware software I have been having no problems.

TinFury
Sep 5, 2010, 02:36 PM
I don't agree that the only point in switching to Mac is if you have chronic problems with malware, but I certainly agree that the argument surrounding Windows and viruses is given too much weight. I, like you, have never in my life had an issue with Windows in terms of malware/viruses and so when I hear this used in a pro-Mac discourse I have to a smile a bit. It's not hard at all to keep your (Windows) computer safe and you simply have to learn about what's harmful out there to keep everything in order.

The reason why I am planning on switching to Mac is because I plan on learning and practising new audio recording skills. I've tried various combinations on Windows but I've been struck by the ease and user-friendliness of Mac based software.

So does Mac have some hardware capability, software package or OS advantage that makes "audio recording" better on a Mac? Cause this is the first time I've heard someone say something intelligent regarding the preference.

TinFury
Sep 5, 2010, 03:01 PM
OS X's unique advantage is its ability to run both Windows and OS X apps from the OS X dock. When a Windows machine is introduced that can do that, too, without a hack and using commercial software, I will no doubt be very interested. That hasn't happened, though, so I am not interested and will stick with Macs, which can do that. Like Apple says, "It just works.!"

I should add that I didn't start buying Macs "to fight the man," or for any other political reason. I bought my first Mac, a 17 inch Powerbook G4, in 2003 because it was the only 17 inch laptop available at the time. I fell iin love with OS X because of its ease of use and relative immunity from malware. I stick with Macs because, for the moment at least, they are the only computers that will do everything I need out of the box.

Cool good point... I was unaware that they were the first to introduce a 17inch laptop.

gwsat
Sep 6, 2010, 01:18 PM
Cool good point... I was unaware that they were the first to introduce a 17inch laptop.
Yes, the 17 inch Powerbook G4 was a real Gee Whiz! laptop when it was introduced in 2003. Not only did it offer the only 17 inch laptop display available at the time, it was also lighter, thinner than most of its smaller PC competitors, and had more power, too. I had to laugh recently when I was reading The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, by Stieg Larsson. In it, the title character, who is a gifted hacker buys one, also in 2003, and talks about what a powerhouse it is.

L0s7man
Sep 6, 2010, 04:35 PM
I really don't understand why people get so defensive about Apple.

"It OK the hardware is rubbish, you must be crazy to want anything better!"

"It perfectly fine they haven't updated the hardware in years, we got OS X, so shut up!"

Seriously dudes, what kind of consumers are you? Do you have no balls do demand both latest gen performance and good operating system? If I say that I'd like to see an option for higher resolution screen in 13" MBP, there will be 20 dudes jumping on me saying how crazy I am and that the text will be to small and other stupid stuff. And yet, iPhone has resolution comparable to MBP. Think about that for a second.

Who cares if Vaio Z can run OS X or not. It is a better machine, hardware wise; Period. What does it mean? It means that I can use it as an example in a discussion to demonstrate that if Apple bothered just a tiny, tiny little bit, they could've made MBP so much better. And better. And even better. If Sony could put so much stuff into package so tiny (with 4xSSD, 1600x900 or 1080p screen), why can't Apple? Oh, because they don't care; bunch of fools will buy anything with Apple logo on it. C2D is probably getting cheaper and cheaper every day and hence Apple's margins are growing. They can buy old stuff from Intel, put it in a shiny package and sell it with (almost) the same price it was a year ago. Its simply to squeeze more money out of people (not that Apple's margins were ever small; it is overpriced stuff after all and there is no denying that*).

* You dude that undoubtedly are going to jump on this saying that the price is fine, because its Apple or because it has OS X or because its a hardware that Steeve himself hath giveth, just shut up! Can't stand to listen to silly excuses.

I've been using Mac for a number of years now because I like the build quality and the operating system; Why, for once can't I have a Mac that I want, not the one that I don't not want. Sigh...

I will demand progress and you Neanderthals should shut up!

gwsat
Sep 6, 2010, 05:08 PM
I really don't understand why people get so defensive about Apple.

"It OK the hardware is rubbish, you must be crazy to want anything better!"

"It perfectly fine they haven't updated the hardware in years, we got OS X, so shut up!"

Seriously dudes, what kind of consumers are you? Do you have no balls do demand both latest gen performance and good operating system? If I say that I'd like to see an option for higher resolution screen in 13" MBP, there will be 20 dudes jumping on me saying how crazy I am and that the text will be to small and other stupid stuff. And yet, iPhone has resolution comparable to MBP. Think about that for a second.

Who cares if Vaio Z can run OS X or not. It is a better machine, hardware wise; Period. What does it mean? It means that I can use it as an example in a discussion to demonstrate that if Apple bothered just a tiny, tiny little bit, they could've made MBP so much better. And better. And even better. If Sony could put so much stuff into package so tiny (with 4xSSD, 1600x900 or 1080p screen), why can't Apple? Oh, because they don't care; bunch of fools will buy anything with Apple logo on it. C2D is probably getting cheaper and cheaper every day and hence Apple's margins are growing. They can buy old stuff from Intel, put it in a shiny package and sell it with (almost) the same price it was a year ago. Its simply to squeeze more money out of people (not that Apple's margins were ever small; it is overpriced stuff after all and there is no denying that*).

* You dude that undoubtedly are going to jump on this saying that the price is fine, because its Apple or because it has OS X or because its a hardware that Steeve himself hath giveth, just shut up! Can't stand to listen to silly excuses.

I've been using Mac for a number of years now because I like the build quality and the operating system; Why, for once can't I have a Mac that I want, not the one that I don't not want. Sigh...

I will demand progress and you Neanderthals should shut up!
I don't have an alternative to a Mac because I require a computer that can run both OS X and Windows. So far, only Macs can do that. That said, I agree that the apologists for Apple's now long term failure to significantly improve the hardware in the MBA aren't credible. I, for one, wouldn't touch the current MBA and would strongly recommend that others avoid it, too. Maybe Steve and the boys will surprise us with a new and wonderful MBA but given their track record, I don't think that its likely.

Yinmay
Sep 6, 2010, 05:41 PM
MacBook Air is outdated, Sony Z is fairly new. Let's wait for the next Air and then compare.

This. Every time a new Air was released, it was well above the competition.

Crossing fingers for a revision of all three 13" laptops on Oct 5 or 12.

mangrove
Sep 11, 2010, 01:17 PM
I have an original MBA 64GB SSD.

My iTunes is nearly 120GB, but I have created different libraries for my travel that lets me take 15-20GB of music and it so far has never caused issues with my normal numbers, pages, safari and mail usage, even while using iTunes while working on those other applications, and often they are all open simultaneously.

Like Scottsdale says, it all depends on how you use what you've got-specs are only specs-one's actual usage experience is what counts.:D