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View Full Version : Bush, Where's My Job??? (The End Of Unions?)




Spizzo
Sep 30, 2004, 12:23 PM
As a Union Worker, I am scared for my job. Bush has made it known that he is against unions, and has been trying to limit workers rights. He cut federal workers right to a collective bargining agreement, and has tried to take our overtime away. He's given tax breaks to company's who ship their jobs over seas, and given tax breaks to company's who dont pay taxes. (source (http://www.aflcio.org/corporateamerica/ns09222004.cfm))

Why do we sit and do nothing while our president takes away what makes us Americans??? He wages wars to keep us distracted, all while filling his family's and friend's pockets full of cash. I think this needs to stop. Here are the facts (from a non-partisan site).


GOOD JOBS

John Kerry has developed a plan to create millions of new jobs by the end of his first four-year term. The plan includes a new jobs tax credit to help create manufacturing jobs and a proposal to end tax breaks that encourage companies to move jobs overseas and invest in the nation’s infrastructure to create good jobs building and repairing the nation’s roads, transit and water systems, schools and other vital projects. Kerry also pledged to restore confidence and boost the American manufacturing sector by cutting the nation’s record budget deficit of more than $400 billion in half while investing in health care and education. Kerry will fight for America’s workers by enforcing U.S. trade agreements. (www.johnkery.com)

George W. Bush has presided over the worst loss of U.S. jobs since Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression. He has supported tax breaks for companies that move jobs overseas and refused to enforce U.S. trade agreements to protect American jobs. (Economic Report of the President, 2004)

FREEDOM TO JOIN A UNION

John Kerry supports the rights of workers to join a union, free from employer intimidation, harassment and threats. He is a co-sponsor of the Employee Free Choice Act, which would ensure that when a majority of employees in a workplace decides to form a union, they can do so without the debilitating obstacles employers now use to block their free choice. It allows workers to freely choose whether to form a union by signing cards authorizing union representation, provides mediation and arbitration for first contract negotiations and sets stronger penalties for employers that violate workers’ rights to form a union. (S. 1925, 2003)

George W. Bush does not support the Employee Free Choice Act, which allows workers to join a union free from employer intimidation, harassment and threats. During his presidency, he has taken away the collective bargaining rights of 170,000 workers in the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, 60,000 Transportation Security Administration airport screeners, 1,300 workers in the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, since renamed the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, and several hundred more in various U.S. Department of Justice agencies and offices. (www.GovExec.com, 11/12/03; The Washington Post, 1/20/02)

EXPORTING AMERICA

John Kerry will fight to keep good jobs in America. He will stop tax breaks to companies that send U.S. jobs overseas and create tax incentives to keep good U.S. jobs at home. Kerry will ensure companies that move offshore do not receive government contracts. (Associated Press, 3/25/04; www.johnkerry.com)

George W. Bush supports giving $60 billion in tax breaks to companies that lay off workers and move overseas. Since taking office, each of Bush's federal budget proposals included tax breaks for companies that export jobs overseas. Says exporting jobs is good for America. According to The Economic Report of the President, 2004, "When a good or service is produced more cheaply abroad, it makes more sense to import it than to provide it domestically." (H.R. 2896, 2004; The Washington Post, 10/23/03; Bush fiscal years 2002-2005 budget proposals; Economic Report of the President, 2004)

OVERTIME PAY

John Kerry co-sponsored legislation to stop the Bush administration from issuing new regulations under the Fair Labor Standards Act that could take away overtime pay rights for millions of workers. (Sen. Amendment 1580, 2003)

George W. Bush’s Department of Labor published new rules governing workers’ overtime pay eligibility that could take away overtime pay rights for millions of workers. Those changes in the Fair Labor Standards Act affect workers in a wide range of occupations, including accounting, insurance, advertising, safety and health, human resources, public relations, computer work, financial services and “team leaders.” Workers making as little as $23,600 could lose overtime pay. (The Federal Register, 4/23/04; www.epinet.org)

THE 40-HOUR WORKWEEK

John Kerry opposed legislation that would take away a workers’ right to overtime pay and replace it with unpaid compensatory time off. The legislation would allow employers to schedule more hours for workers without having to pay any extra wages.Without the additional cost of overtime pay, employers would have an incentive to load workers with more and more work hours, keeping workers from their families longer, lowering employment demand nationally and lowering wages. (Senate roll call vote 93 on S. 4, 6/497)

George W. Bush, supports taking away workers’ right to overtime pay and allowing employers to replace overtime pay with nonpaid compensatory time off, which would weaken the 40-hour workweek by allowing employers to schedule more hours for workers without paying extra wages. (Chicago Tribune, 10/6/00; The Federal Register, 4/23/04)

MINIMUM WAGE

John Kerry supports increasing the minimum wage for the nation’s lowest income workers. The minimum wage has fallen to a 30-year-low in buying power and Kerry believes the minimum wage must be indexed for inflation to keep low-income workers from falling even further behind. If the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation since 1968, when it was a $1.60 an hour, it would have reached $8.46 an hour in 2003. (www.johnkerry.com)

George W. Bush has opposed increasing the minimum wage since he took office. He sides with Big Business groups that oppose a minimum wage increase. He has supported allowing states to opt out of the federal minimum wage law and backed creation of a sub-minimum wage for some workers. (The Associated Press, 3/11/04)

RIGHT TO WORK FOR LESS*

John Kerry opposes so-called right to work laws that cut wages and benefits, weaken collective bargaining rights and hurt working families. In the 21 states with such laws, wages are lower, poverty levels higher, people are more likely to lack health insurance and education spending per pupil is lower. Such “right to work for less” laws forbid workers and their unions from negotiating union security clauses into their collective bargaining agreements. Simply put, a union security clause means that all workers who receive the economic benefits of union representation share the costs of maintaining their union. (Senate roll call vote 188 on S. 1788, 7/10/96; AFL-CIO questionnaire 2003)

George W. Bush, supports “right-to-work-for-less” laws, such as the one he helped enforce during his two terms as governor of Texas. During his 2000 campaign, he told a group of business leaders, “I can tell you why you’re poor—you don’t have right-to-work.”(Chicago Sun Times, 10/6/00)

http://www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/politics/kerry_compare.cfm

I'm not really a big fan of Kerry, but he does have America's best intrests in mind, and not Big Business. American Can't afford to be raped by Bush for four more years.

Picture contains some bad language, but it's the truth:
http://www.activeopposition.com/images/Picture%20Archive/Copy%20of%20corporate%20america.jpg



mischief
Sep 30, 2004, 12:26 PM
I'm staying only because I can't earn enough to save up and move (back) to Canada.

blackfox
Sep 30, 2004, 12:33 PM
I'm staying only because no Canadian will marry me (yet) and I am not smart enough to figure out another way in...

...so I will continue working on my drinking habit...because if my immediate surroundings no longer make sense to me, then the larger picture is totally lost.

Perhaps it is because I watched a movie concerning this the other day, but I feel somewhat like a Parisan circa 1940...

mischief
Sep 30, 2004, 12:36 PM
I'm staying only because no Canadian will marry me (yet) and I am not smart enough to figure out another way in...



Despite popular belief you don't need a drinking problem to be Canadian. ;)

As to the Citizenship issue....

Do you have kids?

Canada has a little known immigration policy for young families aimed at bringing in children to revitalize an aging populace.

Did you vote for Gore?

For a while (may still be true) you could apply for Political Assylum if you voted Democratic in 2000.

Spizzo
Sep 30, 2004, 12:40 PM
For a while (may still be true) you could apply for Political Assylum if you voted Democratic in 2000.

Hopefully something like this will happen in 2004 too!!! :D

blackfox
Sep 30, 2004, 12:42 PM
Despite popular belief you don't need a drinking problem to be Canadian. ;)

As to the Citizenship issue....

Do you have kids?

Canada has a little known immigration policy for young families aimed at bringing in children to revitalize an aging populace.

Did you vote for Gore?

For a while (may still be true) you could apply for Political Assylum if you voted Democratic in 2000.
haha...

no kids, but I could get some if needed...or at least enjoy trying.

I did vote for Gore, but lived in Texas at the time, so they might cancel each other out.

It is funny you mention the political asylum, though, as the last time I went up to Vancouver BC, when asked at the border why I was coming to Canada, I replied " do you know what is going on here? Wouldn't you?" I got waved through...

Lyle
Sep 30, 2004, 03:58 PM
... Here are the facts (from a non-partisan site).The AFL-CIO is a non-partisan organization?

Lyle
Sep 30, 2004, 04:03 PM
For a while (may still be true) you could apply for Political Assylum if you voted Democratic in 2000.Considering that the party's symbol is a donkey, one could probably apply for "assylum" any year one chooses to vote Democrat. :rolleyes:

IJ Reilly
Sep 30, 2004, 05:13 PM
Despite popular belief you don't need a drinking problem to be Canadian.

My uncle saw a sign that said, "Drink Canada Dry." He's been trying ever since.

BADA-BOOMP!

mischief
Oct 1, 2004, 12:33 PM
Considering that the party's symbol is a donkey, one could probably apply for "assylum" any year one chooses to vote Democrat. :rolleyes:

Are you implying Eddie Murphy is crazy? :confused:

Or are you using pop-symbolism to make a weakly cutting (dulling?) political dis?

To trade dis for dat: Pachyderms generate a whole lot more excreta than the common donkey.

Taft
Oct 1, 2004, 12:53 PM
Are you implying Eddie Murphy is crazy? :confused:

Or are you using pop-symbolism to make a weakly cutting (dulling?) political dis?

To trade dis for dat: Pachyderms generate a whole lot more excreta than the common donkey.

Pachyderm? That is one high-brow dis. :D

Taft

mischief
Oct 1, 2004, 12:59 PM
Pachyderm? That is one high-brow dis. :D

Taft

Donkey-shane. Heee Haw!!! :D ;)

makisushi
Oct 1, 2004, 01:14 PM
Bush has made it known that he is against unions

I am against unions as well. I guess I am more of a capitalist than a socialist. I think that people should work hard for their money. Not to way that workers in Unions are not hard workers, but one of the side effects of a Union is that some members take advantage of the situation and tend not to work as hard.

I have done tons and tons of design work for non-profits and advocacy groups and they all require their stuff to be printed with a union printer. I can honestly say that I can get my stuff done much quicker at a non-union shop.

It is like the welfare program. In theory, it is a good idea, but in real application someone comes along and starts abusing it.

Ugg
Oct 1, 2004, 01:32 PM
I am against unions as well. I guess I am more of a capitalist than a socialist. I think that people should work hard for their money. Not to way that workers in Unions are not hard workers, but one of the side effects of a Union is that some members take advantage of the situation and tend not to work as hard.

I have done tons and tons of design work for non-profits and advocacy groups and they all require their stuff to be printed with a union printer. I can honestly say that I can get my stuff done much quicker at a non-union shop.

It is like the welfare program. In theory, it is a good idea, but in real application someone comes along and starts abusing it.

Unions came into existence because of weak labor laws and they are a waste of time and money in today's society. I'm all for getting rid of the unions but only if we get stronger labor laws. Unfortunately that isn't ever going to happen because big business will start whinging about government intervention and the unions have become too politically powerful. Certain things should have a natural lifespan instead of being granted immortality.

Dont Hurt Me
Oct 1, 2004, 01:41 PM
I dont think it matters much because our govt (George Bush) is giving the major companies plenty of reasons to get the heck out of the U.S and few to stay. So we wont have any factories making anything hence no need for Union or non Union workers. its not end of unions its the end of made in USA. look at Apple any American products? its all made in China. at least my Alienware was assembled in the U.S as was my Quicksilver. :)

mischief
Oct 1, 2004, 01:45 PM
I dont think it matters much because our govt (George Bush) is giving the major companies plenty of reasons to get the heck out of the U.S and few to stay. So we wont have any factories making anything hence no need for Union or non Union workers. its not end of unions its the end of made in USA. look at Apple any American products? its all made in China. at least my Alienware was assembled in the U.S as was my Quicksilver. :)

Hmm.... So between outsourcing and disgruntled populace we'll see all the jobs AND all the talent move to Canada, Ireland, Britain, etc.

All that will be left is the CEO's and the middle-mangement suck ups... Perhaps it's all a secret plan.

Lyle
Oct 1, 2004, 04:45 PM
For a while (may still be true) you could apply for Political Assylum if you voted Democratic in 2000.Considering that the party's symbol is a donkey, one could probably apply for "assylum" any year one chooses to vote Democrat.Are you implying Eddie Murphy is crazy? :confused:Ugh. You have put me in the uncomfortable position of having to decide whether this joke went over your head and you really don't get it, or if you are just pretending to not get it.

You misspelled "asylum" as "assylum" in your previous post. And a donkey is (according to one definition) a domesticated ass (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=donkey). And the traditional symbol for the Democratic party is the donkey. So I was just being a jerk about the spelling mistake and taking advantage of it to comment on the natural link between the Democratic party and all things in the donkey milieu.

I would guess that your interpretation (that I think Eddie Murphy is crazy) involves some tortured combination of his character in the Shrek movies and maybe a mental asylum. I really didn't mean for you to work that hard on it.

Lyle
Oct 1, 2004, 04:47 PM
Donkey-shane. Heee Haw!!! :D ;)I have seen some bad puns in this forum, but this one really sets the bar to a new high (or low, depending on your perspective). ;)

IJ Reilly
Oct 1, 2004, 06:55 PM
I have seen some bad puns in this forum, but this one really sets the bar to a new high (or low, depending on your perspective). ;)

It was a beer pun. Very Löwenbrau.

zimv20
Oct 1, 2004, 10:05 PM
it doesn't take a guinness to come up with a beer pun.

IJ Reilly
Oct 1, 2004, 11:53 PM
No, but it does take a stout heart.

Chip NoVaMac
Oct 3, 2004, 10:18 AM
Unions came into existence because of weak labor laws and they are a waste of time and money in today's society. I'm all for getting rid of the unions but only if we get stronger labor laws. Unfortunately that isn't ever going to happen because big business will start whinging about government intervention and the unions have become too politically powerful. Certain things should have a natural lifespan instead of being granted immortality.

You have a point. There would be no need for unions if we gave everybody overtime for over 40 hours work, period. If everyone had access to affordable health insurance in their workplace. That we got back to dumping their company stock when they have lay-offs as opposed to rewarding them with increases in their stock price. That employees were looked upon as a limited resource, not something that can be disposed of.

It is the threat of unions that keep many companies on the right side of their employees.

mischief
Oct 4, 2004, 10:22 AM
Ugh. You have put me in the uncomfortable position of having to decide whether this joke went over your head and you really don't get it, or if you are just pretending to not get it.

(etc.)

Where's Norton Threadchecker when I need it? :p

If I was engaging in a formal debate with an all Oxford-English crowd I may give a rats' donkey about the specifics of spelling and (get ready) simantics.

There's been entirely too much kvetching over mixed grammatical discepline of late on this Forum. I chose to respond with an equally silly nonsequitur.

One more episode of buttclenching like that and I'll be forced to taunt you a second time. ;) :rolleyes:

IJ Reilly
Oct 4, 2004, 10:25 AM
Oh no, not the comfy chair!

mischief
Oct 4, 2004, 10:33 AM
Oh no, not the comfy chair!

*Whooooooooosh!*

*SPLAT!*

Elderberry pie for you. :D

IJ Reilly
Oct 4, 2004, 11:13 AM
Where the hell's my ice cream? I ordered ala mode!

Lyle
Oct 4, 2004, 12:23 PM
One more episode of buttclenching like that and I'll be forced to taunt you a second time. ;) :rolleyes:No need for additional taunting. My cheeks are relaxing as we speak.

mischief
Oct 4, 2004, 01:26 PM
No need for additional taunting. My cheeks are relaxing as we speak.

THat would explain that odd, earthy aroma.... :eek: :D ;)

g4cubed
Oct 4, 2004, 01:55 PM
Unions came into existence because of weak labor laws and they are a waste of time and money in today's society. I'm all for getting rid of the unions but only if we get stronger labor laws. Unfortunately that isn't ever going to happen because big business will start whinging about government intervention and the unions have become too politically powerful. Certain things should have a natural lifespan instead of being granted immortality.
Let me start by saying I have worked both union and non-union shops.

You and most spouting about getting rid of the unions must not have a clue to how and why the unions came to be. SEE UNION HISTORY (http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Eco_Unionization.htm)

The unions have become corupt, but so have the companies, Enron comes to mind. Also the government, awarding a no bid contract to Haliburton. Isn't there a V.P. connection there?

I understand that the unions aren't perfect and charge higher rates or pay. But if it still weren't for them, most companies would be sweatshops in America. Minimum wage would probably be around $2.00 an hour. But I guess this would be a good thing because companies wouldn't have to outsource these jobs to China and India, to name just two, and keep them here for you and your children.

I'm just tired of people blaming the unions for what our goverment is doing. The goverment makes the labor laws but look at who's running the country. Big Business is in bed with the government which is making easier import laws and low tariffs as so to flood the markets with cheap and below standard products. This is how they are going to break the unions. But in doing so will lower us back down to proverty levels equal to those old days again.

Most of us, myself included, enjoy cheap prices. But increased competition, not low wages and no benifits, will keep prices down. I'm not an economic major by no means, but this is the way I see it.

Keynoteuser
Oct 6, 2004, 09:49 PM
the first post made me crack up...

"Why do we sit and do nothing while our president takes away what makes us Americans???"

I want to respond with...you sit on your butt all day at your job, why should your politics be any different. EVERY time I have ever worked a show in any venue in America that is Union, our crew ALWAYS got screwed. EVERY SINGLE TIME. In St. Louis I worked a 15,000 person conference where we had to pay for TWO guys to sit and stare at our giant video projectors, as if they were going to somehow explode. At 10:00 pm sharp they would leave and when they left every video camera we had was supposed to be turned off, even if the speaker was still speaking. If we left things on, the union guys got double over time, and I think it was billed by the hour, so if we were 5 min late the charges started racking up. I think there was even a multiplier in there because I remember being astonished at what it was going to cost us to keep rolling. One of our guys tried to leave a non-manned standing camera on just to roll to tape (no projectors on by this time)...nope, the union guys walked around and made him turn it off. The whole time these two guys SAT on their butts and did NOTHING and got paid for it. Heck, we couldn't even carry in our own gear to the hall.

Recently I was in DC at a hotel working a show. We had a panel of 4 speakers and a podium. If I wanted to use MY little mixing board to mix the mics to both the room AND my laptop recording system, I had to provide ALL the sound/speakers, everything. Okay I said, I'll use YOUR board. Nope, if THEY provide the board I wasn't allowed to touch it. Okay I said, you stick around to make sure it sounds okay. Nope, since we didn't PAY for a sound guy, all they do is set it up and leave it. Okay, then I ask if I can call them every time we have a problem. They say yes. Problem is we NEVER saw them the rest of the day. I was instructed NOT to touch the little Mackie board, even though it was far easier ON THEM if I walked over and pushed a fader up then if I called them and forced them to come down and push that little fader up. So what did I do? I pushed the @#% fader up myself and figured they'd never notice.

Unions may have had a GREAT start in history, but STUPID, LAZY, ARROGANT WORKERS have ruined it for themselves. If you want a reason to keep unions...stop proving to other hard working Americans that they are a waste of time and a way for lazy workers to still make money on behalf of the rest of us.