Faulty iMac, repaired 3 times but still bad...

[madbad01]

Hi!

So I have a 24-inch iMac 2.8GHz.
I've had long term issues that have persisted after three Apple Store repairs. I'm now running on an extended warranty because I reported the issues before my warranty actually expired.

Anyway, the issues are as follows.
- Really bad (and getting worse) screen ghosting
- A lot of lagging/freezing/crashes
- Sometimes the screen suddenly goes blank white or stripes and I have to force-restart

So Apple have replaced the HD, the motherboard, the screen and the fan. I'm in the middle of a university degree and I can't really be without my computer so what should I do? Apple says they'll try to fix it again but should I demand a replacement? Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

[spcdust]

Hi!

So I have a 24-inch iMac 2.8GHz.
I've had long term issues that have persisted after three Apple Store repairs. I'm now running on an extended warranty because I reported the issues before my warranty actually expired.

Anyway, the issues are as follows.
- Really bad (and getting worse) screen ghosting
- A lot of lagging/freezing/crashes
- Sometimes the screen suddenly goes blank white or stripes and I have to force-restart

So Apple have replaced the HD, the motherboard, the screen and the fan. I'm in the middle of a university degree and I can't really be without my computer so what should I do? Apple says they'll try to fix it again but should I demand a replacement? Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!


How old is your iMac?

Based on the fact that you have now had it repaired three times, and you have ensured that no other 3rd party software / peripherals are causing issues, I think you morally have cause to request a replacement. I would personally e-mail Apple Executive Care (use the Steve Jobs e-mail address but maybe mark your e-mail FAO Apple Executive Care) and explain your issues and the impact it is having on your use of the Mac and your studies. Keep it polite, calm and express your disappointment and you'll hopefully be pleasantly surprised at the level of care you will receive. The advantage of going this route is you deal with one point of contact and they have higher authority to sort things out.

[madbad01]

^ Thank you!

My iMac is about 8 months past it's warranty so it's almost 2 years old.
Is Steve's email address 'steve@mac.com'?

[spcdust]

^ Thank you!

My iMac is about 8 months past it's warranty so it's almost 2 years old.
Is Steve's email address 'steve@mac.com'?

I have previously used: sjobs@apple.com, although I suspect there are many aliases that will work

[AlexisV]

You'll only get a brief response, if any.

Talk to customer services - you'll get more response from people who's job it is to help.

[spcdust]

You'll only get a brief response, if any.

Talk to customer services - you'll get more response from people who's job it is to help.

Sorry, have to correct you on this one. E-Mails sent to this address are generally dealt with by Executive Relations - the top tier of customer service. I highly doubt that Steve Jobs "personal" e-mail account actually receive any of the e-mails sent to his "personal" e-mail address - his iPad would likely crash under the strain of the thousands of e-mails it would receive. At the very least there would be a PA Department dealing with his e-mails who would direct them to the appropriate Department.

Personally I actually doubt that many of these recently reported short e-mails actually come from the hand of Steve Jobs himself - kind of think it's a covert PR exercise to get maximum exposure to messages the Apple Corporation wish to disseminate to the masses. It seems highly effective as each time one is reported it gets high placed coverage in the Apple media.

[tigres]

If your near an apple store I would take it in. Same thing happened on a MacBook I own. Three repairs warranted a replacement by apple. They offered before I asked.

[madbad01]

Thanks for all your responses!

I've just been reading up on the Apple terms and conditions (http://www.apple.com/legal/terms/repair/docs/English_AGOS_Service_Terms.html) and this what I've come across.

6.7.6.2. A buyer of this product in California has the right to have this product serviced and repaired during the warranty period. The warranty period will be extended for the number of whole days that the product has been out of the buyer's hands for warranty repairs. If a defect exists during the warranty period, the warranty will not expire until the defect has been fixed. The warranty period also will be extended if the warranty repairs have not been performed due to delays caused by circumstances beyond the control of the buyer, or if the warranty repairs did not remedy the defect and the buyer notifies the manufacturer or seller of the failure of the repairs within 60 days after they were completed. If, after a reasonable number of attempts, the defect has not been fixed, the buyer may return this product for a replacement or a refund subject, in either case, to deduction of a reasonable charge for usage. The time extension does not affect the protection or remedies the buyer has under other laws.

It sounds as though "a reasonable number of attempts" is left to the customers discretion and I think three repairs is completely reasonable grounds to warrant a replacement, no?

Should I go into a store with my iMac and these terms and conditions printed out, explain my situation and ask for a replacement and if they refuse present the terms and conditions?

Thanks again!

[spcdust]

Thanks for all your responses!

I've just been reading up on the Apple terms and conditions (http://www.apple.com/legal/terms/repair/docs/English_AGOS_Service_Terms.html) and this what I've come across.



It sounds as though "a reasonable number of attempts" is left to the customers discretion and I think three repairs is completely reasonable grounds to warrant a replacement, no?

Should I go into a store with my iMac and these terms and conditions printed out, explain my situation and ask for a replacement and if they refuse present the terms and conditions?

Thanks again!

I would personally still go the Executive Care Route, if they agree with your argument they'll arrange with your local store for a new iMac or even pick up and despatch a new iMac to your address. As your iMac is nearly 2 years old you may hit a brick wall at your Apple store - they may need to get approval from the relevant Department to replace your iMac with a brand new replacement. Also, I would hold off on quoting Terms and Conditions in the first instance as it's instantly a little confrontational and they may be able to quote them back to you to their advantage. I always find the approach of expressing your disappointment, loyal customer, negative impact on your use of the computer often works in these circumstances - always try to establish a friendly connection with the person who you want to assist you - it goes a long way.

[madbad01]

^ Very true. Great advice, thank you.

I sent an email off to 'steve@mac.com' about 24 hours ago per your suggestions. Haven't heard anything back yet but I will keep you updated and may seek more advice if I hit a wall.

Thanks again!

[spcdust]

^ Very true. Great advice, thank you.

I sent an email off to 'steve@mac.com' about 24 hours ago per your suggestions. Haven't heard anything back yet but I will keep you updated and may seek more advice if I hit a wall.

Thanks again!

No worries, I would also send the same e-mail to the other address just as a belts and braces step. It may take up-to a week to hear anything back, if after next Monday you have had no response send a "chase up" e-mail, including the text of your initial e-mail, saying that you're disappointed you haven't heard from them and you are keen to discuss your particular situation with them. Once you have got their ear they seem to go out of their way to assist you.

[Zortrium]

Based on what you've written, I think emailing sjobs is unnecessary here, and you can probably get a replacement over the phone by talking to customer relations. I was in a very similar situation to you a few months ago -- got my 1.5 year old 24" iMac replaced with a brand-new quad-core iMac after the third failure (first got a new GPU, then got a new GPU + power supply + logic board) -- you just have to be persistent on the phone. When I called AppleCare after the third failure, the first guy I talked to wouldn't talk replacements and wanted me to bring it in again, so I asked for customer relations, at which point I got someone who also wouldn't talk replacements initially until I asked several times and (politely) stood my ground. Finally she offered me a replacement, but I definitely had to work a little bit for it.

So my advice is to call back and ask for a replacement, and stress the inconvenience of having no machine and the lack of faith you have in your current one after so many failures. If you're competent on the phone, I'd be surprised if you couldn't get anywhere.

[mtnDewFTW]

Call AppleCare and just talk to them about it. Tell them about the problems you're having, and ask that you'd feel a lot better if they gave you a replacement computer. Since there seems to be so much wrong with the machine, it seems like the repair will take longer, and tell them that you need your computer on a daily bases.

Also, bring up that the computer has been repaired 3 times, and you paid a lot of money for it, and that it kinda sucks when all that money goes to waste.

Good luck

[madbad01]

So, I called and spoke to Customer Relations and explained the whole situation. Did the whole dedicated Apple customer, disrupts my education, disappointed yadda yadda yadda (which is all true).
Anyway, she seemed sympathetic but basically said I'm out of warranty so a replacement probably won't happen but they will repair it again and which point I pointed out that three repairs is already too many...

So she transferred me to a top technical guy whose job it was to confirm my machine had a hardware fault. He asked me to explain the issues which I did, asked me a few questions and said "Yeah, I'm not even going to bother running tests on your machine. It sounds completely buggered." I was surprised he'd even be so forward in his assessment.

So I called back and left a message with Liz in Customer Relations who's going to look over the case and pass it on to whoever needs to approve a replacement. She said she'll call me within 24 hours.

I'm thinking she's probably going to come back to me with the stock... "Sorry, you're out of warranty but we'll attempt fixing it again for you." If she does, what should I say?

[AlexisV]

What country are you in?

Sorry, have to correct you on this one. E-Mails sent to this address are generally dealt with by Executive Relations - the top tier of customer service

Obviously so in tune with customers that there's no reply after 24 hours. 'Top tier' of customer service = high up and removed from what's happening on the ground.

More response by going through proper channels, as we've discovered.

[Zortrium]

So, I called and spoke to Customer Relations and explained the whole situation. Did the whole dedicated Apple customer, disrupts my education, disappointed yadda yadda yadda (which is all true).
Anyway, she seemed sympathetic but basically said I'm out of warranty so a replacement probably won't happen but they will repair it again and which point I pointed out that three repairs is already too many...


Oh, you're out of warranty? I missed that and assumed that you'd purchased AppleCare. Yeah, in that case, you're probably out of luck, and I'd be thankful that they're offering to do another repair at all. Definitely get AppleCare on your next iMac -- especially with the educational discount, it's pretty inexpensive, and times like this make it worth its weight many times over.

[spcdust]

What country are you in?



Obviously so in tune with customers that there's no reply after 24 hours. 'Top tier' of customer service = high up and removed from what's happening on the ground.

More response by going through proper channels, as we've discovered.

I can only speak from experience but on the two occasions I have required that "little extra" in customer service Apple Executive Relations have bent over backwards to assist. They were able to go way beyond the usual customer service remit and, on both occasions, the outcome was extremely positive. Tend to find the first tier of Apple customer Care / Relations are very restricted in what they can actually do / authorise - I guess it's the difference in speaking with the organ grinder. Given the OP's situation and the fact that they are out of warranty I think the course of action I've suggested may well work out best for them but let's see what the outcome of of their conversation is with Customer Relations?

[madbad01]

Yes, I'll see how it pans out.

Can any of you clarify just how tightly bound Apple are by their terms and conditions because it does state the following:

6.7.6.2. A buyer of this product in California has the right to have this product serviced and repaired during the warranty period. The warranty period will be extended for the number of whole days that the product has been out of the buyer's hands for warranty repairs. If a defect exists during the warranty period, the warranty will not expire until the defect has been fixed. The warranty period also will be extended if the warranty repairs have not been performed due to delays caused by circumstances beyond the control of the buyer, or if the warranty repairs did not remedy the defect and the buyer notifies the manufacturer or seller of the failure of the repairs within 60 days after they were completed. If, after a reasonable number of attempts, the defect has not been fixed, the buyer may return this product for a replacement or a refund subject, in either case, to deduction of a reasonable charge for usage. The time extension does not affect the protection or remedies the buyer has under other laws.

To me that reads I'm entitle to a replacement machine now. Yes, my iMac is out of warranty but according to Liz in Customer Relations, it's in my file that these issues were reported months before my warranty expired so they should still be covered.

What do you guys think?

^ I'm in Australia by the way.

EDIT: I'm just spoke with my mother's partner who's a Barrister and he's advised me that according to Apple's terms and conditions I am covered under warranty but replacement or refund is in the grey and can be most likely argued and decided upon at their discretion.
He said I'd be best off just walking into a store, asking for a replacement and if they refuse presenting their terms and conditions... I'm not sure if this is the best approach.

[spcdust]

What do you guys think?

^ I'm in Australia by the way.

Would this link be more relevant for you:

http://storeimages.apple.com/4743/store.apple.com/Catalog/Australia/Images/salespolicies.html

[madbad01]

Would this link be more relevant for you:

http://storeimages.apple.com/4743/store.apple.com/Catalog/Australia/Images/salespolicies.html

I've looked at that page but I couldn't find anything specifically relevent to my situation and at the bottom of the page it referred me to here (http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/hardware.html) which is where I quoted the above from.

[MathijsDelva]

I can definitely contribute to the fact that emailing Steve Jobs (or representative) really does help. My story:

I had a 3.5 year old white first gen core duo macbook (purchased in june 2006). After about 3 years, my wifi stopped functioning. I had to sit 1 meter next to my router in order to get reception. One meter further, and i went from 800kb/sec to 1kb/sec. I found out that the Apple disscussions forums had a huge thread concerning this problem so i decided to email Steve Jobs. To make a long story short, after a month or so of mailing and friendly support calls they offered me a brand new late 2009 unibody macbook free of charge, and a free shipping arrangement for my old macbook to be sent to Ireland (Europa headquarters). I didn't even had to ask.. Great support! And that after 3.5 years! That's over 2 years out of warranty! I say go for it!

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

Another story.

My buddy had a white G5 iMac that failed 5 times in three years. Mother board, DVD drive, display. He did not have Apple Care but after the 5th time it broke he was given a brand new Aluminum Intel iMac (21"). All his correspondence was on the phone with Apple.

I figure it is always worth asking.

s.

[madbad01]

Liz from Customer Relations just called me back and it doesn't seem to be going my way so far. Same old "a replacement probably isn't a possibility" crap.

So, I've called Consumer Affairs who've advised me that Apple's terms and conditions are in my favour and I've also spoken to my mother's partner (the Barrister) again who's said the same thing.

Anyway, Liz seemed to be under the impression that each time the iMac had been repaired it was for a different issue, which it wasn't. I had to explain to her that it's always been the same issues from the start and that that Apple Store repairers just kept replacing the wrong components.
I mentioned that I'd read through my warranty and terms and conditions and it told her what it said. She seemed surprised and didn't know about any of this.
She's going to call me back... again.

If she says she won't replace the unit, I'll ask to speak to her superior. If they aren't helpful either, Consumer Affairs said to send in a "Letter of Demand".

We'll see, hopefully I won't need to be doing any of that.

[davidjearly]

Liz from Customer Relations just called me back and it doesn't seem to be going my way so far. Same old "a replacement probably isn't a possibility" crap.

So, I've called Consumer Affairs who've advised me that Apple's terms and conditions are in my favour and I've also spoken to my mother's partner (the Barrister) again who's said the same thing.

Anyway, Liz seemed to be under the impression that each time the iMac had been repaired it was for a different issue, which it wasn't. I had to explain to her that it's always been the same issues from the start and that that Apple Store repairers just kept replacing the wrong components.
I mentioned that I'd read through my warranty and terms and conditions and it told her what it said. She seemed surprised and didn't know about any of this.
She's going to call me back... again.

If she says she won't replace the unit, I'll ask to speak to her superior. If they aren't helpful either, Consumer Affairs said to send in a "Letter of Demand".

We'll see, hopefully I won't need to be doing any of that.

That's all very well, but I don't understand why you didn't follow the advice given to you at the start of the thread. You sent an email to steve@mac.com, but not sjobs@apple.com

The latter is where you need to send your email to. Outline the 3 repairs for the same fault, your dissatisfaction and keep it calm and polite.

[madbad01]

^ I've done that too.

[spcdust]

^ I've done that too.

I understand your frustration but my advice is to hold off on quoting the T&C's and consumer law in the first instance and wait for a response from Executive Care - this is where decisions outside of the usual remit can be made. The trouble with quoting the law is it tends to create an antagonistic "us and them" scenario, they can also quote the law back at you in their favour and ultimately, if they won't back down, where do you go from there?

By all means after friendly negotiation you still have no joy then it's time to "bring out the big guns" and refer to consumer law and T&C's but hold that arsenal back for the time being.

Good luck;-)

[madbad01]

True, thanks.

I'm now speaking with the store manager of my local Apple Store who did the repairs. The main issue on the machine is severe screen ghosting and he's arguing that every time they've repaired the machine it's successfully fixed the issues and they've re appeared as a new issue.
I said, if someone is diagnosed with cancer, it's treated, they remain in remission for a few months and the cancer comes back, it's not an new issues. It's the old issue rearing it same old ugly head.

He was really nice and reasonable but he's said I need to bring the machine in again so they can assess the issue (again) and he'll negotiate with the right people he can to organize "an outcome you'll be happy with".

Now I have to wait till next Wednesday to take it in...

[spcdust]

Any update on your issues and a resolution?

[madbad01]

Well on Wednesday I was loading my iMac into the car to take it in to the Apple Store and dislocated two ribs.
So I've been hopped up on pain killers and not moving since then but I'm taking it in on Tuesday now so I will update when I see what happens.

Also, didn't hear back from any of the email addresses I sent to.

[madbad01]

Took my iMac in today at 1.00pm. The store manager booked it in and I explained the issues again and presented a bunch of photos I'd taken with my iPhone of the screen ghosting, crashes etc. Left the iMac with them and went home - Got a call at 6.00pm and they're going to replace the machine for me.

Yay!... but wait. Only issue is that he's saying he will replace my 24" iMac with a new one of similar specifications. My iMac was top of the range when I bought it for $3k and I upgraded the HD. The lowest iMac model now is the similar one in terms of specs... where do I stand here? Which model am I entitle to as a replacement?

Thanks!

[Blue Fox]

Yay!... but wait. Only issue is that he's saying he will replace my 24" iMac with a new one of similar specifications. My iMac was top of the range when I bought it for $3k and I upgraded the HD. The lowest iMac model now is the similar one in terms of specs... where do I stand here? Which model am I entitle to as a replacement?

Thanks!

You are entitled to exactly what they told you, a similarly spec'd model. A model that meets or exceeds your current specs, regardless if it's their current lowest iMac or not. You might be able to ask them if YOU could pay the difference if you want to upgrade to a higher model, but they're already offering you EXACTLY what they should be offering you, a replacement of similar or better specs.

[madbad01]

What about screen size? Mine is 24-inches, how can they downgrade me to a 21-inch model? Does that mean I'm entitle to a base 27-inch?

[spcdust]

What about screen size? Mine is 24-inches, how can they downgrade me to a 21-inch model? Does that mean I'm entitle to a base 27-inch?

I think you have a valid point - Apple are doing the right thing by you but I would seriously question the downgrade in screen size. You could possibly use this as leverage and offer to pay towards a higher specced 27" model.

[madbad01]

Just spoke to the Apple Store again and picked up my old iMac... they've agreed to replace my machine with a base 27-inch model but it'll take about a week to arrive so I've taken my dud back to use in the mean time.

Success! Thanks for all your help - especially you, spcdust.

[spcdust]

Just spoke to the Apple Store again and picked up my old iMac... they've agreed to replace my machine with a base 27-inch model but it'll take about a week to arrive so I've taken my dud back to use in the mean time.

Success! Thanks for all your help - especially you, spcdust.

Really pleased that you got such a good outcome to your troubles. People knock Apple and although the issues you had experienced aren't excusable there aren't too many companies that would offer a brand new replacement on an 18 month / 2 year old computer. Enjoy your new machine:):):):)

[waaren]

I have the exact same problems!

........I have no warranty anymore!!!!

help....help, what now?

did the replacements do anything for you? some people in the other thread are saying change the hard drive.....please help!