iChat AV for Jaguar Discontinued

[MacRumors]

The online Apple Store is no longer selling iChat AV for Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar).

iChat AV (http://www.apple.com/ichat/), Apple's videoconferencing software designed for use with the iSight video camera (http://www.apple.com/isight/), is part of Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) and was previously available for Jaguar (10.2.5 or later) for $29.95 in the online Apple Store.

Apple's iChat AV page (http://www.apple.com/ichat/) no longer mentions the use of the software under Jaguar and the iChat AV download page (http://www.apple.com/ichat/download/) states that "Mac OS X v10.3 or later" is the minimum requirement for iChat AV 2.1.

The iSight and iChat AV (as beta software) were introduced (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030623163212.shtml) in June 2003.

[AoWolf]

Wonder why

[cslewis]

(sigh) poor jaguar users... :D Seriously, tough, that's pretty bad. I wonder why they dropped iChat AV for Janguar?

EDIT: Apple probably wants people to upgrade... for $129, of course.

[AoWolf]

(sigh) poor jaguar users... :D Seriously, that's pretty bad. I wonder why apple didn't let users of jaguar to continue iChat AV? Maybe apple wants people to upgrade in order to stay tech savvy...

Or they want $129 :rolleyes:

[cslewis]

Or they want $129 :rolleyes:

Hey! No fair! You replied before I was done editing my post!

[AoWolf]

Hey! No fair! You replied before I was done editing my post!

Or you edited after I replied. :p

[blueBomber]

How well did it sell? Most people I know upgraded to Panther very soon after it was released, so none of them had a use for the $30 ichat AV purchase. Complete lack of sales could be why they stopped producing it.

[wrldwzrd89]

(sigh) poor jaguar users... :D Seriously, tough, that's pretty bad. I wonder why they dropped iChat AV for Janguar?

EDIT: Apple probably wants people to upgrade... for $129, of course.
I take this as a sign that Tiger may be coming sooner than expected, since Tiger is supposed to contain an updated iChat AV.

[varmit]

Yeah, i don't know why anyone would want to pay 30 bucks for it, when just a little more, you get the whole OS.

[Doctor Q]

I don't see why they didn't let the Jaguar version remain unchanged and available, for a price, even as they improve it and create new versions for Panther and Tiger. There is a cost to stocking it in the brick and mortar stores, but very little to keep it available (maybe just for download, not boxed) online.

Sometimes a discontinued product version turns free (all but the latest versions of Mac OS 7 eventually did), but Apple has not done that often, and making iChat AV free for Panther would have angered those who paid for it.

I conclude that they are doing this to nudge people further toward Panther and Tiger.

[wrldwzrd89]

I don't see why they didn't let the Jaguar version remain unchanged and available, for a price, even as they improve it and create new versions for Panther and Tiger. There is a cost to stocking it in the brick and mortar stores, but very little to keep it available (maybe just for download, not boxed) online.

Sometimes a discontinued product version turns free (all but the latest versions of Mac OS 7 eventually did), but Apple has not done that often, and making iChat AV free for Panther would have angered those who paid for it.

I conclude that they are doing this to nudge people further toward Panther and Tiger.
I think you got your Mac OS X versions mixed up. Didn't you mean "...and making iChat AV free for Jaguar would have angered those who paid for it"?

[solvs]

Wonder if this means iChat for Windows. Yeah, I know, long shot. But wouldn't it piss people off if you could get it for free on Windows, but had to pay for it for earlier versions for Macs? They're probably just preparing for the new version though. Maybe with Tiger, maybe not. Not Jaguar compatible probably. Wonder if the new version is 10.3 compatible if it comes with Tiger.

Questions, questions. We shall see.

[Doctor Q]

Oops, yes. Sorry. I could fix my typo above, but then your post would look funny, so I'll leave my mistake there and hide my head in shame.

[solvs]

Oops, yes. Sorry. I could fix my typo above, but then your post would look funny, so I'll leave my mistake there and hide my head in shame.
Well, either way, I know what you meant. :p

[harmless]

Remember that iChat AV is going to get a new video codec. I guess they didn't want to (or couldn't for some reason) build a Jaguar version.

And you can't really sell an iChat AV (Jaguar) that is not able to talk to iChat AV (Panther/Tiger) ...

[wrldwzrd89]

Remember that iChat AV is going to get a new video codec. I guess they didn't want to (or couldn't for some reason) build a Jaguar version.

And you can't really sell an iChat AV (Jaguar) that is not able to talk to iChat AV (Panther/Tiger) ...
Here's the big question - will this new codec be offered to Panther users when Tiger is released with the new iChat AV? It's H.264 in case you didn't know.

[coolfactor]

Here's the big question - will this new codec be offered to Panther users when Tiger is released with the new iChat AV? It's H.264 in case you didn't know.

Tiger's iChat is backwards-compatible with Panther's, but it won't use the new codec in that case, AFAIK.

[johnnyjibbs]

Interesting. Personally I hope it's iChat AV for Windows. That would help me because I can't currently get AIM 5.5 and iChat AV to play ball and I'd also like to just audio conference. By slipping iChat AV for Jaguar under the carpet and hoping it went away, they may be able to get away with releasing iChat AV for Windows for free without too much of an upset (no-one would pay for it on Windows when there are free alternatives).

However, that also doesn't make sense because iChat now appears to be tightly integrated into the OS. I'd imagine the Tiger-only features will NOT be available to Panther users, even if there was the option to pay.

[wrldwzrd89]

Interesting. Personally I hope it's iChat AV for Windows. That would help me because I can't currently get AIM 5.5 and iChat AV to play ball and I'd also like to just audio conference. By slipping iChat AV for Jaguar under the carpet and hoping it went away, they may be able to get away with releasing iChat AV for Windows for free without too much of an upset (no-one would pay for it on Windows when there are free alternatives).

However, that also doesn't make sense because iChat now appears to be tightly integrated into the OS. I'd imagine the Tiger-only features will NOT be available to Panther users, even if there was the option to pay.
That's to be expected from Apple - but it doesn't matter in my case, since I'm buying Tiger anyway. As far as iChat AV for Windows goes, I don't think Apple could easily make a Windows version (if they did, it would be considerably larger than the Mac version) because it depends on a whole bunch of core Mac OS X components that would need to be recreated on Windows.

[VicMacs]

why do people even install jaguar anymore? if you have it and have not installed ichat av then youre way out of date, and should upgrade to tiger when it comes out, 2 years is enough for an os nowadays

get with it

[må¥å]

Seems, logical to upgrade the OS for 129 instead of paying 29 for iChat AV.

Then again I see this as a good thing now Apple can remove those programmers and put them on the panther and tiger team, to speed development and reduce cost.

maybe they are putting the last touches on tiger and starting on 10.5 (lion) ;)

I see this all as a good thing.

[johnnyjibbs]

why do people even install jaguar anymore? if you have it and have not installed ichat av then youre way out of date, and should upgrade to tiger when it comes out, 2 years is enough for an os nowadays

get with it
I got on fine with Windows 98 until this time last year when I got my PowerBook and we bought a new desktop computer with Windows XP. I must say, Win 98 was a little less stable than XP, but it was easier to use and left you alone to do what you wanted to do (like Mac OS X). It's only this year with my Mac where I've wanted to keep up to date. However, even though I'll buy Tiger (because of curiosity's sake) there's no reason why I would ever really need to upgrade from Panther.

[må¥å]

By The Way I don't see Apple porting any more applications to windows, since Longhorn doesn't have a set release date and it keeps changing, Apple would be foolish to invest in developing other application other than iTunes for Windows, too expensive to support, if iChat and iSight seems like a profitable market on the x86 side, they might consider it. However its a slim chance.


Best thing Apple can do now is to keep up the innovation on the SW and HW side they will pull out of the dark. Even a 10-15% market share is good. As long as they remain profitable in other markets music, pro, server they should be fine. :-D

[VicMacs]

I got on fine with Windows 98 until this time last year when I got my PowerBook and we bought a new desktop computer with Windows XP. I must say, Win 98 was a little less stable than XP, but it was easier to use and left you alone to do what you wanted to do (like Mac OS X). It's only this year with my Mac where I've wanted to keep up to date. However, even though I'll buy Tiger (because of curiosity's sake) there's no reason why I would ever really need to upgrade from Panther.

and 600kb is enough for anybody's lifetime...

[Wonder Boy]

Yeah, i don't know why anyone would want to pay 30 bucks for it, when just a little more, you get the whole OS.

if by a little you mean $100, then yes, i agree.

[sockeatingdryer]

and 600kb is enough for anybody's lifetime...

Actually, I can see where's he coming from with that idea. Panther is really a complete OS, more so than Jaguar et al. However, it's obviously going to be less 'heavy' than Tiger (with Dashboard, Spotlight, and numerous architecture layer add-ons). Therefore, Panther was perfect for older Macs, like the Pismo, iMac G3s, iBook G3s, etc.

I'm going to buy Tiger for my new eMac, but I highly doubt I will install it on my Pismo. It's not about obsolescence, it's just about getting the best performance without bogging your machine down. I'm all for Tiger, and I think it's going to be one of the most exciting releases, but I know that a whole lot more layers are going to be added on to this onion.

[Ja Di ksw]

Yeah, i don't know why anyone would want to pay 30 bucks for it, when just a little more, you get the whole OS.

If 100 is just a little more, can you give me just a little bit of money?

[ijimk]

Will Tiger have this integrated into it or will apple be cleaning out the closet making room for tiger version of this software? Hmmm i was even tempted to get this but now i am a little scared to. :(

[Windowlicker]

Will Tiger have this integrated into it or will apple be cleaning out the closet making room for tiger version of this software? Hmmm i was even tempted to get this but now i am a little scared to. :(

what do you mean? not getting tiger for your g5? I think that would be rather foolish.. but because I didn't get your point I'm not gonna preach more about this. besides, i should be sleeping already

[t300]

This is fine with me. It's time to move on...Good move Apple.

Of course this could mean..maybe...That the next version of iChat will be available for Jaguar. Who knows..I guess we'll see...

[ojames]

Here is the source article where MacRumors got this info. It explains that the product is EOL.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=673

[wrldwzrd89]

This is fine with me. It's time to move on...Good move Apple.

Of course this could mean..maybe...That the next version of iChat will be available for Jaguar. Who knows..I guess we'll see...
My guess is that the reason for the discontinuation is to make room for development of the Tiger version of iChat. After all, Apple doesn't have unlimited developers or time - I'm sure they switched the iChat AV Jaguar team over to something more current, such as iChat AV for Tiger.

[aafuss1]

I agree with all those who think that iChat AV for Jaguar (and the developers might have moved to work on the new version for Tiger) is discontinued so Apple can focus on the version being included in Tiger (10.4). This is very similar to Safari in my view-the first releases supported Jaguar, and more recent versions only support Panther, and also Apple may not backport say features from either the Safari RSS/iChat AV ( perhaps version 3.0 for Tiger?) to Panther or Jaguar.

[Porchland]

I don't see why they didn't let the Jaguar version remain unchanged and available, for a price, even as they improve it and create new versions for Panther and Tiger. There is a cost to stocking it in the brick and mortar stores, but very little to keep it available (maybe just for download, not boxed) online.

Sometimes a discontinued product version turns free (all but the latest versions of Mac OS 7 eventually did), but Apple has not done that often, and making iChat AV free for Panther would have angered those who paid for it.

I conclude that they are doing this to nudge people further toward Panther and Tiger.

Steve Jobs will probably say at the MWSF keynote that the new iChat AV codec is so crackin' good it only works with Panther and Tiger. And I suspect that would be partly true; Apple wants to move users forward, but it also wants to have its apps work as sharply as possible.

I would LOVE to see a Windows 2000/XP version or compatibility with one or more of the other chat apps. Windows users are a big market for iSight, and it's another good entre into the Apple universe.

[narco]

I feel REALLY bad for OS 9 users. They must be living in an entirely different world.

.narco

[Mechcozmo]

I still run Jaguar on my iMac. It is a great OS. Plus, Panther wasn't too exciting (Expose was the only real new feature that was neat). And there were all sorts of nasty things going on: FW 800 drives being wiped, some networking stuff, etc. And if FW800 had a problem, FW400 might have one too. In any case, when all the bugs were ironed out of Panther I watched the keynote on Tiger and thought "spend 180 to get the family pack for something that will be obsolete in a year...or wait it out for that year to spend 180 to get something that Apple says will be the last major release for a while..."

Also, iChat AV was something that I never needed. The audio stuff is great, but it dosn't work with those WinTels...at least, I've never been able to get it to work. So I say kudos to Apple for ditching iChat AV for Jaguar, it wasn't needed.

[solvs]

By The Way I don't see Apple porting any more applications to windows, since Longhorn doesn't have a set release date and it keeps changing, Apple would be foolish to invest in developing other application other than iTunes for Windows, too expensive to support, if iChat and iSight seems like a profitable market on the x86 side, they might consider it. However its a slim chance.
If they release iChat for Windows, besides possibly selling more iSights, it also makes it more useful on the Mac. How many people do you know can't use it because they don't have friends with iChat or it won't work with AIM even if they have XP? Talking to 3 people at once is great if you have 3 people to talk to that can actually use this. Add Yahoo! IM support (and even MSN somehow) and you have a killer product. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice.

[Stella]

Who would really use iChat for Windows? At present iChat is very limited and needs serious work before apple could seriously consider porting it.




If they release iChat for Windows, besides possibly selling more iSights, it also makes it more useful on the Mac. How many people do you know can't use it because they don't have friends with iChat or it won't work with AIM even if they have XP? Talking to 3 people at once is great if you have 3 people to talk to that can actually use this. Add Yahoo! IM support (and even MSN somehow) and you have a killer product. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice.

[jouster]

Sheesh. So that's your lot. One year and four months of support then get your checkbook out.

MS - the company that everyone loves to hate - was still supporting W98 last time I checked.

[zim]

Sheesh. So that's your lot. One year and four months of support then get your checkbook out.

MS - the company that everyone loves to hate - was still supporting W98 last time I checked.

MS had announced that they were going to end support for win98 back in June but decided to continue support until Jan 2005. So, my point is that even MS kills off application support after time.

http://www.windows-help.net/microsoft/98-lifecycle.html

[swissmann]

I'm not missing it. Using Panther anyway - like most users who would want iChat.

[Doctor Q]

iChat AV isn't the main reason to upgrade to Panther. The reason Panther is worth $129 is that in a File->Save dialog box you can click a filename to set the current filename. So pay $129 to get that worthy feature and iChat AV comes along free for the ride!

[itsa]

The online Apple Store is no longer selling iChat AV for Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar).

iChat AV (http://www.apple.com/ichat/), Apple's videoconferencing software designed for use with the iSight video camera (http://www.apple.com/isight/), is part of Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) and was previously available for Jaguar (10.2.5 or later) for $29.95 in the online Apple Store.

Apple's iChat AV page (http://www.apple.com/ichat/) no longer mentions the use of the software under Jaguar and the iChat AV download page (http://www.apple.com/ichat/download/) states that "Mac OS X v10.3 or later" is the minimum requirement for iChat AV 2.1.

The iSight and iChat AV (as beta software) were introduced (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030623163212.shtml) in June 2003.
I never knew they even sold it. I thought everyone got it for free. Guess that's why they took it off...?..?
I really did not think it's something that people would pay for. Thought of it more as a program you just get with an OS. I still can't get all my mac buddies to use it. So many other ties I guess.

[QFace]

Pretty messed up in my opinion... Apple should support all its OSs if possible, not just those with the newest of the new. Reminds me of how Apple treats older generation iPod users with firmware updates.

[solvs]

MS - the company that everyone loves to hate - was still supporting W98 last time I checked.
There's a difference between support, and development. There have been recent security fixes for Jaguar as well, but the truth is that most people who use Jaguar don't need much updated. If you are talking about support, OS 9 is still technically supported. Many people still use Win9x, and still need the support. WMP 10, however, is XP only. The next version of IE is said to be Longhorn dependant. Support does not equal new software developed.

I think if there was a version of iChat for Windows, plenty of people would use it. I'm just not holding my breath.

[jrober]

I was very disappointed to see this this morning. I was just about to buy this for my iMac at home so my family and I can iChat Av while I am working away from home, Broadband is ordered and this was next on the shopping list.

I am annoyed because I understand Panther comes on DVD discs and my iMac has a CDRW drive so I cannot install panther.

Can anyone assist / reccomend a way around this. My other computer is a new Powerbook but it will be 5 weeks before the two computers are together again so I cannot use this to do the install via it's DVD drive.

P.S. The iMac is a G3 600Mhz Blue Dalmatian.

John

[virividox]

maybe tiger wil be released dec or nov just like panther

i love ichat av, its just a shame my uni blocked it, i only get to use it when im not on campus which is rarely or when im on vacation; but when im on vacation i rarely have the need to use it since im with my friends and parents who are the people i mainly want to conference with duh

[iMan]

By The Way I don't see Apple porting any more applications to windows, since Longhorn doesn't have a set release date and it keeps changing, Apple would be foolish to invest in developing other application other than iTunes for Windows, too expensive to support, if iChat and iSight seems like a profitable market on the x86 side, they might consider it. However its a slim chance.

Best thing Apple can do now is to keep up the innovation on the SW and HW side they will pull out of the dark. Even a 10-15% market share is good. As long as they remain profitable in other markets music, pro, server they should be fine. :-D

Only way Apple is going to release Windows apps is if they can get revenue from it. Like iTunes is just a necessity to make iPod the premium choice it is. No reason so far that Apple will release neither iLife apps nor iChat AV for other platforms. They are all just a pile of reasons to buy a Mac in lieu of a regular PC - i.e. ultimate ease of use and innovation. What would be the benefit for Apple if they released iChat free of charge for Windows? They can hardly hope to be anywhere close to leading the pack in this business. Only thing I can see beneficial for Apple is if iChat got cross-protocol support on the Mac - then you needed just one im client for AIM, MSN, Yahoo etc. (like AdiumX). This would be a big selling point again for the Mac as platform - especially with the superiority you get with iChat to iChat communication.

Apple is foremost a hardware manufacturer - and they will only make apps that drives the sales of their hardware. Hence if they are to make a Windows app, it's sole intention would be to sell some piece of Apple hardware. Just like they also are doing with Final Cut, Logic and more - they are not big revenue for Apple, but they only serve to drive the interest in the platform and hardware.
So, why would Apple port Mac OS or any other apps for Windows?

Important to note also: Apple is NOT in the dark. They are doing clever business, they might even be able to increase their marketshare a percentage or two in the years to come, but I suspect they are quite comfortable with their current postion; earning good money, no debts, making cool products, being one of the most influential tech companies in the world (way ahead of MS!)...

[wrldwzrd89]

I was very disappointed to see this this morning. I was just about to buy this for my iMac at home so my family and I can iChat Av while I am working away from home, Broadband is ordered and this was next on the shopping list.

I am annoyed because I understand Panther comes on DVD discs and my iMac has a CDRW drive so I cannot install panther.

Can anyone assist / reccomend a way around this. My other computer is a new Powerbook but it will be 5 weeks before the two computers are together again so I cannot use this to do the install via it's DVD drive.

P.S. The iMac is a G3 600Mhz Blue Dalmatian.

John
Actually, it's only iLife that requires a DVD drive. On Macs with DVD drives that ship with Panther, Panther comes on 1 DVD (which you don't have). For everyone else, Panther ships on 3 CDs. Therefore, you need not worry.

[Mord]

and 600kb is enough for anybody's lifetime...

the thing is with windows it dose not bloody change xp is damn near a clone of 95 bar some major core crap that no one ever notices, all i can see is 3d pinball a fisher price theme and not as many blue screens and a whole load of annoying pop up messages buging you to run windows update but thats me being ignorant.

10.3 is worth it just for the speed you get from upgrading and the stability jaguar was crap for me and 10.2.6 plain did not work i got a kernel panic on boot, exposé is great and i use it constantly and cannot live without it i even find myself going into the corners (which i have it assigned to in OS X as haveing it on the F keys is useless) when i'm using xp expecting it to work.

[Anacondan]

2 years is enough for an os nowadays

Not necessarily,
But It will be nice to finally have a usb port :o

[G4-power]

iChat AV isn't the main reason to upgrade to Panther. The reason Panther is worth $129 is that in a File->Save dialog box you can click a filename to set the current filename. So pay $129 to get that worthy feature and iChat AV comes along free for the ride!

Yeah, and Exposé, and much nice stuff. One cool thing with Panther is that GarageBand works on it! Not that my machine would run GarageBand.

Anyway, Tiger will have h.264/AVC in it's iChat AV, and that's wicked cool. Just a question that will Panther users get the new codec? Prolly not. Gah, speculation is nice but you never know what they're up to, unless you can read minds or you master great skills in burglary.

[j33pd0g]

I feel REALLY bad for OS 9 users. They must be living in an entirely different world.

.narco

I'm not affected by Apple's decision to no longer offer iChat for Jaguar.

iChat where I work would be a helpful communication tool. Instead of screaming across the building, "Hey Joe, can you make sure that...", everybody on the network can be in the loop. And we have to gather 'round' for tons of meetings every day.

Not affected because: 8.6 at my place of work... 8.6 on a beige G3!

[jrober]

Actually, it's only iLife that requires a DVD drive. On Macs with DVD drives that ship with Panther, Panther comes on 1 DVD (which you don't have). For everyone else, Panther ships on 3 CDs. Therefore, you need not worry.

Wrldwizard, many thanks for the advice, Panther on CD it is for the home machine. I am glad that I will be advising on a mac upgrade from 1200 miles away while my wife does this at home. I would not want to try that on a PC.

Yours, off to the Apple store.

John

[G4-power]

I feel REALLY bad for OS 9 users. They must be living in an entirely different world.

.narco

Well, yes they are. I remember switching to OS X (10.1) in 2001, and after a few days I had learned much new tricks and stuff. Things got a lot easier and, well I could go on and on about this...

Mac users are really rare in Finland. Just found out that my Religions teacher is a Mac user, but that poor woman is still running OS 9 on an 1st gen. iMac.

The difference between OS 9 and OS X feels huge. It feels bigger than between W95 and XP...maybe, just maybe it's because Microsoft haven't really got anything done in the 8 years, anyone? :D

It's like, Windows 2000 is a copy of OS 8.x and 9.x...XP is a copy of 9.2 and OS X (10.0, with all the bugs copied too), and Longhorn is going to be a copy of...probably Panther. Tiger is going to be way ahead of Longhorn, so Longhorn can't be a copy of Tiger.

[Doctor Q]

Wrldwizard, many thanks for the advice, Panther on CD it is for the home machine.Memo to Steve Jobs: You owe wrldwzrd89 a commission on this sale.

[feeze]

Actually, it's only iLife that requires a DVD drive.

I know this is being fussy, but iLife ships on both CD and DVD (my version did anyway) But Garageband is only available on the DVD version.

[zim]

I know this is being fussy, but iLife ships on both CD and DVD (my version did anyway) But Garageband is only available on the DVD version.

I think that is the way mine is too. I also know that FCP and DVD Studio Pro come only on DVD. I think as time moves on that will become the preference of Apple for supplying applications.

[wrldwzrd89]

I know this is being fussy, but iLife ships on both CD and DVD (my version did anyway) But Garageband is only available on the DVD version.
I knew about GarageBand being on DVD, but I wasn't aware that the whole suite was mixed CD/DVD.

[mymemory]

Wonder why

No one use that, everybodys uses Yahoo Messenger or Microsoft Messenger and MSN for Mac have been missing the video feature for many versions and now is stuck! iChat uses American On Line and not many people overseas uses that... (actually no one) so. iChat should be compatible with MSN or die because 80% of the people has an Hotmail or Yahoo account at list and uses MSN.

I chat was not compatible enough, probably Apple is going to lunch a more compatible software or give up the licence to MSN. Period.

[wrldwzrd89]

No one use that, everybodys uses Yahoo Messenger or Microsoft Messenger and MSN for Mac have been missing the video feature for many versions and now is stuck! iChat uses American On Line and not many people overseas uses that... (actually no one) so. iChat should be compatible with MSN or die because 80% of the people has an Hotmail or Yahoo account at list and uses MSN.

I chat was not compatible enough, probably Apple is going to lunch a more compatible software or give up the licence to MSN. Period.
That's very interesting...but also not very surprising that AIM wouldn't be very popular outside the USA. I'd bet MS doesn't want to open up MSN to iChat under any circumstances, since they have their own Passport system. Yahoo might be more willing to cooperate with Apple, however.

[TopGear]

...I'd bet MS doesn't want to open up MSN to iChat under any circumstances, since they have their own Passport system. Yahoo might be more willing to cooperate with Apple, however.

Interesting idea. Does anyone else find it odd that OS X's Address Book has a pull-down menu which includes settings for AIM, Jabber, MSN, ICQ and Yahoo... but iChat only works with AIM?

I hope in the next OS X incarnation iChat works with more IM clients. Right now it's like something out of the old Word / WordPerfect incompatibility era. I'm on MSN, you're on AIM, he's on ICQ, etc...

[wrldwzrd89]

Interesting idea. Does anyone else find it odd that OS X's Address Book has a pull-down menu which includes settings for AIM, Jabber, MSN, ICQ and Yahoo... but iChat only works with AIM?

I hope in the next OS X incarnation iChat works with more IM clients. Right now it's like something out of the old Word / WordPerfect incompatibility era. I'm on MSN, you're on AIM, he's on ICQ, etc...
I don't think it's all that odd. After all, Apple knows that Mac OS X users want to store their contacts' IM information, even if it isn't through iChat.

[TopGear]

I don't think it's all that odd. After all, Apple knows that Mac OS X users want to store their contacts' IM information, even if it isn't through iChat.

Okay, it might not be odd. But it is ironic. :rolleyes:

[iMan]

No one use that, everybodys uses Yahoo Messenger or Microsoft Messenger and MSN for Mac have been missing the video feature for many versions and now is stuck! iChat uses American On Line and not many people overseas uses that... (actually no one) so. iChat should be compatible with MSN or die because 80% of the people has an Hotmail or Yahoo account at list and uses MSN.

I chat was not compatible enough, probably Apple is going to lunch a more compatible software or give up the licence to MSN. Period.


That is plainly not true. Actually lots of people uses AIM - at least here in Norway. Works nicely with iChat - so no reason for Apple to make a completely new client (AIM is actually a pretty good one also!).

There are also several other clients now collecting all kinds of protocols - and MSN and Yahoo are in talks about interoperating capabilities. Which means these guys are not indifferent to the idea of opening up to Apple as well. IM is going to be big - a lot more important then even e-mail as it also goes mobile now. So to not confuse the users totally they start to open up the protocols to each others. MS relies on its coming integration to office apps - just like iChat actually works with adress book, mail and such.

I really believe that Apple works on getting protocols for at least MSN and Yahoo in there... maybe also Jabber and some of the lesser ones... Apple-users are not any priority with MSN or Yahoo anyway - but hey if they can chat with their windows-clients, why not? I think that is the way - iChat stays Mac only - but gets multi-protocol. I hope :)

[wrldwzrd89]

That is plainly not true. Actually lots of people uses AIM - at least here in Norway. Works nicely with iChat - so no reason for Apple to make a completely new client (AIM is actually a pretty good one also!).

There are also several other clients now collecting all kinds of protocols - and MSN and Yahoo are in talks about interoperating capabilities. Which means these guys are not indifferent to the idea of opening up to Apple as well. IM is going to be big - a lot more important then even e-mail as it also goes mobile now. So to not confuse the users totally they start to open up the protocols to each others. MS relies on its coming integration to office apps - just like iChat actually works with adress book, mail and such.

I really believe that Apple works on getting protocols for at least MSN and Yahoo in there... maybe also Jabber and some of the lesser ones... Apple-users are not any priority with MSN or Yahoo anyway - but hey if they can chat with their windows-clients, why not? I think that is the way - iChat stays Mac only - but gets multi-protocol. I hope :)
Jabber's already been taken care of (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/tiger/), at least in Tiger Server. I can't find any mention of Jabber support in Tiger (client), but I'm sure that it's there.

[Poff]

The only thing this means to me, is that it is now as close to legal as it gets to copy iChat AV for Jaguar for free, so.. YAHOOO!! :D

[Rod Rod]

where I used to work they used iChat AV on Jaguar within the LAN.

they didn't pay for it. it was a cracked copy on every single machine.

oh, they also had unlicensed Final Cut Pro, After Effects, Photoshop, DVD Studio Pro and Office.X on about 15 computers.

it was (and still is) an evil place.

[VicMacs]

Not necessarily,
But It will be nice to finally have a usb port :o

you gotta be kidding me....

what is that? like a G... F3?

picture please!

[Anacondan]

you gotta be kidding me....
what is that? like a G... F3?
picture please!

The Powerbase 180 is (was) a mac clone from PowerComputing. I can't upload pictures as I have no usb port. :( Maybe I'll upload a couple after we get the new Imac.

[iwantanewmac]

Interesting. Personally I hope it's iChat AV for Windows. That would help me because I can't currently get AIM 5.5 and iChat AV to play ball and I'd also like to just audio conference.


Why don't you try "skype" ?

[dharmachakra]

Actually, I was just trying to help a friend in the U.S. order iChat AV for Jaguar, so I (in Britain) can talk to him for free on audio chat... I am on Panther and he isn't well-off, so the price difference between $30 for iChat AV under 10.2 and upgrading to 10.3 for $130 is significant - enough to mean phone calls remain, alas, a cheaper way to talk... Apart from the money factor, there is also the issue of whether Apple are 'morally' obliged (as it were) to continue supporting past customers of their OS/products. I can't believe the economics of having a download version of iChat AV for 10.2 are prohibitive for Apple - we can only assume it was a policy decision based on profit margins. Withdrawing iChat AV for Jaguar to force folk to upgrade (regardless of the app's future Tiger compatibility) isn't exactly reassuring about how Apple view their customer base who can't afford to or simply don't need to upgrade their OS every two years. It'd be a shame if Jaguar support (and, perhaps in future, Panther support) dwindles to bare-bones, no-frills tolerance...

[G4-power]

I really believe that Apple works on getting protocols for at least MSN and Yahoo in there... maybe also Jabber and some of the lesser ones... Apple-users are not any priority with MSN or Yahoo anyway - but hey if they can chat with their windows-clients, why not? I think that is the way - iChat stays Mac only - but gets multi-protocol. I hope :)

Yeah, I hope that too. So far iChat is the best IM application I've used, odds are that it works only on AIM and .mac. I've used Proteus (http://www.proteusx.com/) (a multi-protocol IM app for OS X) and it's okay, but it lacks audio/video and is shareware. I regularly use the newest MSN Messenger for Mac (OSX) version, and iChat. I've also tried ICQ (OS X, that app sucks) and MSN Messenger (Windows), Yahoo! (Windows). Proteus was quite clean, but the others have a clumsy interface and/or show ads.

Multi-protocol iChat would be great because 1) Having many apps open for one thing: chatting, but on different protocols is ridicuolous, and 2) Many people (on Windows) use MSN Messenger because "that's what came on their PC" and some are too afraid to install/let others install anything on their PCs.

[ASP272]

More forced progress from Apple, shouldn't surprise anyone.

[sirjimithy]

Jabber's already been taken care of (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/tiger/), at least in Tiger Server. I can't find any mention of Jabber support in Tiger (client), but I'm sure that it's there.

Actually, take a look at this (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=649). It shows iChat support for Jabber. Authentic or not? Well, since Apple has already announced that it has jabber server support in OS X Server 10.4, I can't imagine that they wouldn't put support for it in iChat AV in 10.4. It's just not the Apple way ;)

[JGowan]

It's only this year with my Mac where I've wanted to keep up to date. However, even though I'll buy Tiger (because of curiosity's sake) there's no reason why I would ever really need to upgrade from Panther.I generally agree with most everything you say, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised with Tiger when you start using the enhancements. In fact, I'm betting most people will be saying "I don't know I've lived without _____________ ".

SPOTLIGHT, AUTOMATOR, SAFARI RSS, DASHBOARD... all of these seem to be HUGE timesavers. Core Image and Core Video are also going to really blow away us creative types!

Johnny, I think you're gonna be mighty impressed AND GLAD you spent the extra pounds!

[wrldwzrd89]

Actually, take a look at this (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=649). It shows iChat support for Jabber. Authentic or not? Well, since Apple has already announced that it has jabber server support in OS X Server 10.4, I can't imagine that they wouldn't put support for it in iChat AV in 10.4. It's just not the Apple way ;)
Thanks for that - I knew it was out there somewhere.

[PDubNYC]

I generally agree with most everything you say, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised with Tiger when you start using the enhancements. In fact, I'm betting most people will be saying "I don't know I've lived without _____________ ".

SPOTLIGHT, AUTOMATOR, SAFARI RSS, DASHBOARD... all of these seem to be HUGE timesavers. Core Image and Core Video are also going to really blow away us creative types!

Johnny, I think you're gonna be mighty impressed AND GLAD you spent the extra pounds!

All of those things are great, provided they first Truly fix networking to get it back to Jaguar level. And I mean networking in a true corporate-creative environment, with Unix servers running FullPress in my case. The networking still sucks. It's EXTREMELY irritating, and I really hope they address this fundamental flaw before going nuts with the fancy new features.

I'm sure some people are happy with networking as is, but for most people I know in my industry, it sucks.

[atomiton]

No One in Canada uses AIM... the whole point of IM is talking to ppl you know.

AIM = "AMERICA" On-Line. NO way will Europe use it... or even Canada.

Windows AIM SUCKS compared to MSN Messenger. Hate to say it, but it's true. Far too clumbsy, far too convoluted...

If only iChat supported MSN... or Yahoo.

[wrldwzrd89]

All of those things are great, provided they first Truly fix networking to get it back to Jaguar level. And I mean networking in a true corporate-creative environment, with Unix servers running FullPress in my case. The networking still sucks. It's EXTREMELY irritating, and I really hope they address this fundamental flaw before going nuts with the fancy new features.

I'm sure some people are happy with networking as is, but for most people I know in my industry, it sucks.
I'd love to know exactly what problem(s) you're having with the existing networking implementation so I could help you solve them, direct you to a resource on Apple's site that deals with the problem(s), or direct you to a feedback link on Apple's site so you can let them know if you haven't already.

[PDubNYC]

I'd love to know exactly what problem(s) you're having with the existing networking implementation so I could help you solve them, direct you to a resource on Apple's site that deals with the problem(s), or direct you to a feedback link on Apple's site so you can let them know if you haven't already.

The problems are many and varied. The main issue is files not showing up on the server after being processed through the Dalim. Other users will be able to see the file, but not the original user unless they logoff and log back on. This frustrates end users to no end.
In Jaguar you could put a machine to sleep with servers still mounted, and when you woke the machine, it would reconnect to the servers, rather than give you the Beachball of death for 2 minutes before telling you that the connection has been lost. Browsing servers in general is far slower than on Jaguar.

All of the issues have been submitted by a number of people over time. Thank you for your offer, but I don't think that there is much that can be done until Apple corrects things on their side.

Thanks

[shidoshi]

No One in Canada uses AIM... the whole point of IM is talking to ppl you know.

I know a few people up in Canada, and they all use AIM. Not iChat, but actual AIM for Windows. So there you go.

[FunkyChicken]

What I REALLY want to know is when the new iSight is coming out.

Wasn't there a report/rumour several weeks ago that a new model/version of iSight was coming out (that is supposed to clip better to the new displays)? Anybody know anything about this? :confused:

[johnnyjibbs]

What I REALLY want to know is when the new iSight is coming out.

Wasn't there a report/rumour several weeks ago that a new model/version of iSight was coming out (that is supposed to clip better to the new displays)? Anybody know anything about this? :confused:
Didn't they just release a new magnetic attachment clip that allows it to clip to the iMac G5s (and presumably the new displays) magnetically?

[wrldwzrd89]

Didn't they just release a new magnetic attachment clip that allows it to clip to the iMac G5s (and presumably the new displays) magnetically?
Yup - such a clip has in fact been released. I own one of the iSights that comes with one of those, but since I have an iMac without an external display it's of little use to me.