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MacRumors
May 22, 2010, 01:22 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/21/google-sets-its-sights-on-apple/)

It's been a busy week for Google with the announcement of a number of new initiatives. We've covered them here on MacRumors because it's clear that Google has its sights set squarely on Apple. If there was any doubt about the growing animosity between the two companies, there is none now. Google spent a lot of its on-stage time during the conference making direct swipes (http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100521/viral-video-googles-laughable-but-not-funny-apple-tantrum/?mod=ATD_rss) at Apple, even going so far as comparing the company to Big Brother from 1984. Google's new product announcements pits it directly against Apple in many key areas:

Apple TV - Google TV (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/20/google-announces-google-tv-for-fall-2010-launch/)
iTunes - Wireless Android Music Syncing (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/20/google-acquires-simplify-media-preparing-android-media-and-app-auto-syncing/)
iAds - Google Ads / Admob (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/21/ftc-closes-investigation-of-google-admob-merger-cites-apples-iad-as-competitive-factor/)
h.264 - WebM/VP8 (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/19/google-announces-webm-open-source-video-format-plans-for-android-television-integration/)
iPhone OS - Android OS

Apple CEO Steve Jobs seemed to know this was coming and made his own jabs against Google at Apple's town hall meeting (http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/01/googles-dont-be-evil-mantra-is-********-adobe-is-lazy-apples-steve-jobs/) in January. On Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won’t let them, he says. Someone else asks something on a different topic, but there’s no getting Jobs off this rant. I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don’t be evil mantra: "It's ********." Audience roars.
Google's mantra now seems to be "openness" in a refrain that might have been lifted from Microsoft's Steve Ballmer (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-10165705-78.html?tag=mncol;txt)."I agree that no single company can create all the hardware and software. Openness is central because it's the foundation of choice." - Steve BallmerMicrosoft has always been about creating the platform and distributing it to as many customers as possible through their hardware partners. Microsoft, of course, made money through the sale of each software license. Google is eyeing the same basic plan but their plan revolves around monetizing ads on the platform. Beyond internet search, Google hopes to infiltrate mobile phones and television as well.

Apple's role, however, remains the same as always -- as a staunch proponent of vertical integration and a tightly controlled user experience. How tightly they control that experience, however, has been a point of contention amongst users and developers. Apple lost the previous round when it was against Microsoft, but Apple has also never had such a strong lead before.


Article Link: Google Sets Its Sights on Apple (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/21/google-sets-its-sights-on-apple/)



seenett
May 22, 2010, 01:26 AM
When I first saw this article, it all clicked for me: Google is Apple's #1 competitor. iPhone OS4 better have more tricks up their sleeve, and Apple TV is DONE unless they move it from "hobby" status to "let's get our ass in gear" status. As a self avowed Apple fan-boy, I lust for Google TV!

primmstereo
May 22, 2010, 01:27 AM
apple entered the mobile business, google can enter whatever business they like too...

VolceOntra
May 22, 2010, 01:30 AM
I think this is humorously retarded of Google.

However, this will be the best thing that happened to consumers, Android, and iPhone OS.

Without stiff competition, there isn't a need to out do.

The ball is in Apple's court.

kirky29
May 22, 2010, 01:30 AM
I agree with jobs, Google's 'Don't be Evil' crap, it's *************!!
I liked it when Google & Apple were close, imagine the great results we could have seen... Now, it's just Google copying.
I have more respect for Microsoft now, than I ever have.

i.mac
May 22, 2010, 01:36 AM
Google rants and attacks tells me that apple is doing well ( but we know this).

The direct attacks, however, say that google folks have a chip on their shoulder. Reminds me of high school nonsense. Remember the guy that got pissed at you because you had a beatifull girlfriend, and then you had to fight him time and again?

Google seems to be angry at Apple because Apple is better, and now Apple is about to show Google how advertising is done. They're rabid mad.

coz707
May 22, 2010, 01:37 AM
And to think, Eric and steve used to be the best of friends. Now they are against each other more than Apple and Google, Oh wait!

sirozha
May 22, 2010, 01:38 AM
Google does not know how to turn a good idea into a polished end-user product. Most of their services are in beta forever. I interviewed with Google, and even my interviewers mentioned the fact that everything seems to stay in beta forever. The only thing that Google does well is search, and search is the only real generator of ad revenue for them. They are now trying to branch out with their ad placements to other areas, but the bottom line is that the end goal is always ad revenue and not the product itself. However, only the smartest people work for Google, and as long as Google makes a lot of money and can afford to employ the smartest people, Google will be a real threat to the market share for any competitor, including Apple.

What Apple should do is accept the challenge from Google and compete with Google head-to-head, including search. Search is the only thing that is missing from the Apple's product portfolio, and I believe they don't have to look in far places. Yahoo is right down the road from them.

To me, Google has turned into an evil entity - the one that turns on its old friend and stabs him in the back. I want to take sides and vote with my computing patterns, including search. I do not want to go exclusively to Google any time I need to find something, but frankly, Google is the only real authority in search. I wish Apple would buy Yahoo and turn it into a real search competitor to Google.

LaMerVipere
May 22, 2010, 01:38 AM
I'm a huge Apple nut (natch) and have been a loyal iPhone user for 3 years but what Google is showing with Android is clicking with me. A lot of it just kind of makes sense. Stuff I've been thinking about for a long time now. I just finished watching their Android demo keynote from I/O and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Their Android Intent API stuff is what I've been dreaming of for a while and really severs the physical connection between computer and mobile. Send directions to your phone with one click of your computer's browser. Send an app the same way. Heck, make your entire iTunes library available for streaming! Kind of eliminates the need for a 64GB device.

And all that just kind of scratches the surface.

I really want Apple to think about how people use their devices in different ways. Google kind of ways.

I still plan on getting an iPhone 4G/HD/whatever when it's launched, but now I can't really brag about having the coolest device on the block when it comes to capabilities and software.

Here's that Android keynote: http://bit.ly/bLEF8t

Xavier
May 22, 2010, 01:39 AM
Still seems for the time being that Google is playing catch up

carmenodie
May 22, 2010, 01:39 AM
Google tv ain't nothing but a shuffling around of another company's intellectual property. Child please!

Android is nothing but a free OS adopted my competing cell phone makers. It is Google's strategy to controlling the mobile ad business.
Meh! Google pays Apple 100 million a year to carry its search engine. That is probably more money than the sales of any Android phone on the market. LOL!
The music thing. Ha ha! The record labels control the music. Apples sells music, Amazon does No big deal. And music isn't a commodity like coal and nickel so don't expect that if 10 thousand online music suppliers enter the market a single song will go for .002 cents. LOL! The labels would go bankrupt.

As for the ad business stuff, hey, there is a lot of money to go around out there.

ziggyonice
May 22, 2010, 01:40 AM
EDIT: Damn, I wrote another book. :rolleyes: If you're interested, read on. Otherwise, TLDNR is perfectly acceptable. :)



This is a really difficult time for those of us who are hardcore Apple fans, or hardcore Google fans.

I mean, I love Google — but I love Apple *more*. And I like that Google is creating products and ideas that might help push Apple to do bigger and better things. But ultimately, I want Apple to win the fight, because I have greater respect for them based on the products they've created.

I think Apple's products are better than anything else out there on the market. But Google has some cool stuff, you know? (Or in the very least, cool ideas.) I wish that Google could come up these cool ideas, and then have Apple design them — the product, the UI, etc. Maybe that's what competition is all about, but when these two media giants are fighting each other, it's hard to know who to root for.

I mean, really now — can't we all just get along?

I'm saying that I believe Apple has the best design for their products -- whether it be the physical look and feel, or the user interface -- everything is very intuitive. I like how Apple has a consistency across their products that enables you to pick it up and already know how to use it. It's one of the huge benefits in having one company design both the hardware and the software elements for a product.

So when Google comes along and starts to follow in Apple's footsteps (cell phones, operating systems, and now TVs), I find that I like the philosophy that Google uses. I like their idea that everything should be open and connected. The problem is that I don't like how their products look and feel. For example, with Android, their taking the Microsoft approach: create an OS and then license it to handset manufacturers. Sound familiar? It's what Microsoft does with Windows, which is part of why PCs have so many issues to begin with. You have hardware designs that software doesn't take advantage of, you have inconsistencies across the board, not to mention potential incompatibilities and issues that arise. It's just a mess.

You simply cannot deny that when one company makes both the hardware and software, their product is going to be designed to its full potential. And that's why each time I use an Android-powered phone, I find this lack of consistency that aggravates me. It just doesn't "feel" right, there's something missing. It's not as clean, not as organized. It just doesn't seem like it was designed for "regular people." You won't find that with Apple's products -- whether it be a Mac, iPhone, or iPad -- they're built based on how you would expect to interact with them.

Now obviously, nobody's perfect. Apple has a very different philosophy to their products. They use a closed system to help preserve the user experience. Whether or not that will win the war is yet to be seen. But I know that I'm willing to live with that type of setup because there simply isn't anything else out there that can compete with the simplicity and intuitiveness that Apple brings to the table.

If Google and Apple became friends again, I'd like to see them exchanging ideas and implementing their strengths together. Unfortunately though, it's become apparent that the two of them are just going to split farther and farther apart. Being a guy who appreciates both companies, it makes things difficult; I like what Google has thought up, but I've grown accustomed to Apple's brilliant methods of enabling us to interact with technology.

So until Google can astonish me with a look-and-feel that matches Apple's quality, I'm sticking with Apple's products. I'll take a well-designed computer, phone, tablet, anything -- over an "open" platform that just *almost* gets it right.

mac*jedi*g
May 22, 2010, 01:41 AM
GOOGLE! Are you ready for a "SmackDown"?!

ikir
May 22, 2010, 01:45 AM
Google does not know how to turn a good idea into a polished end-user product. Most of their services are in beta forever.
I had the same impression using many Google service like Adword and Adsense, they could do much much much more better. Support is especially ridicolous.

Anyway Google is free to go where they want, competition si good. s for now i consider Android a good products but nowhere near iPhoneOS. GoogleTV could be nice but i prefear to have a MacMini on my TV.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 01:45 AM
Lets look at this....

Apple TV - Google TV
Apple did this first. (Google setting sights on Apple)

iTunes - Wireless Android Music Syncing
I don't know how wirlelessly syncing with someone iTunes library is detrimental to Apple in any way. Apple may end up selling MORE music if Android users are able to easily sync with iTunes. (No target either side.)

iAds - Google Ads / Admob
Aem... Google did ads first.... (Apple set sights on Google)

h.264 - WebM/VP8
H.264 is not entirely an Apple product and Google also support and use h.264. (No target either side.) Google's opennes means "Everyone is inclusive" remember! ;)

iPhone OS - Android OS
Google bought Android INC in 2005. (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm). Did no one see Android coming? :confused: (Google publicly bought Android INC first)

Sensationalistic article is sensational.

kevingaffney
May 22, 2010, 01:49 AM
The world market for smartphones, computers etc is a huge one. There is plenty of room for more than one player. If there hadn't been competition, we probably wouldn't have got as far as cut and paste yet with the iPhone.
Bottom line for me as a relatively recent convert, I love my iPhones, MBP and I'm sure shortly my iPad. They are are excellent dependable devices. Competition won't hurt Apple but will improve it

kockgunner
May 22, 2010, 01:51 AM
I am scared for Apple. They are burning so many bridges and making so many enemies. Imaging what Google and Apple could have done together. I think Apple is becoming 'The Man' in 1984, but Google is no different. Everyone thinks Google is their friend, but their motives just seem off. Google is trying to buy everyone up, compete in every market, and they just have too much information about all of us, it's scary.

Doctor Q
May 22, 2010, 01:53 AM
Competition makes the big players work harder and keeps downward pressure on prices. But... these battles between titans force us consumers to take sides -- which phone, which music service, etc. -- and if we don't pick the winner we end up on the wrong side of the tracks as a platform wins more and more marketshare. The winner gains clout with third parties who write apps, vendors who build accessories, the media companies who provide content, and so on. It's a lot easier to be on that side. Apple's a good bet but you'll need a crystal ball to know for sure.

Anybody remember HD-DVD (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/04/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-battle-over-warner-switches-to-blu-ray/)? That's a good example where early adopters had to bet on which horse would win.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 01:53 AM
Google rants and attacks tells me that apple is doing well ( but we know this).

How do you explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8

Taking swipes at the competition during keynotes is not new with the recent Google I/O keynote....

EDIT: Also, ROFL @ Steve's "all redmond try to do is copy Google and Apple" at the end. :P

pharmx
May 22, 2010, 01:58 AM
I liked Google a whole lot better when they were "just" a search engine. Their tactics lately seem to be extremely shady. The whole "openness" mantra is being used as a cover the same way some zealots use religion for their own selfish purposes.

I'm not saying Apple is completely innocent either, as I feel that they are diversifying too much...but at least with Apple you know what the deal is ahead of time, and should not be surprised by any of the restrictions imposed by a closed system.

cvaldes
May 22, 2010, 02:00 AM
Google does not know how to turn a good idea into a polished end-user product. Most of their services are in beta forever. I interviewed with Google, and even my interviewers mentioned the fact that everything seems to stay in beta forever. The only thing that Google does well is search, and search is the only real generator of ad revenue for them. They are now trying to branch out with their ad placements to other areas, but the bottom line is that the end goal is always ad revenue and not the product itself. However, only the smartest people work for Google, and as long as Google makes a lot of money and can afford to employ the smartest people, Google will be a real threat to the market share for any competitor, including Apple.

What Apple should do is accept the challenge from Google and compete with Google head-to-head, including search. Search is the only thing that is missing from the Apple's product portfolio, and I believe they don't have to look in far places. Yahoo is right down the road from them.

To me, Google has turned into an evil entity - the one that turns on its old friend and stabs him in the back. I want to take sides and vote with my computing patterns, including search. I do not want to go exclusively to Google any time I need to find something, but frankly, Google is the only real authority in search. I wish Apple would buy Yahoo and turn it into a real search competitor to Google.
In a way, Google resembles the previous occupant of its headquarters: Silicon Graphics. SGI had brilliant engineering talent, but senior management didn't adapt their business strategy for contemporary demands.

We're already seeing Google stumble badly with social networking initiatives. Google's AdWords cash cow might eventually droop and they have no other revenue stream. Advertising generates something like 98% of Google's revenue.

Scottsdale
May 22, 2010, 02:00 AM
Google is EXACTLY what Mac and Apple product users should LOVE!

I want Google to battle Apple fiercely on all fronts.

Competition will force Apple to actually consider its users. A Google Chrome OS and Android could force Apple to continually update its products to be not slight improvements over the former models but rather products that actually compete with Google's at every step. Frequent updates with better components that provide substantial updates.

I hope Google truly battles Apple on every product Apple sells. I don't care whether it's MP3 players, routers, displays, smartphone OS, mobile computers, professional computers, tablets, and etc. I want Google to truly go for it and make Apple give a damn about its customers by forcing Apple to provide better products in comparison with Google. Chrome OS could really be the start of something big and benefit all of us Mac users more than OS X could benefit us.

I look forward to this new Google gunning for Apple at every step of the way.

theelysium
May 22, 2010, 02:02 AM
Google Services Breakdown

Google TV = Comercial TV
Wireless Android Music Syncing = half assed music with tons of ads!
Google Ads / Admob = I wish I we thought of iAds!
WebM/VP8 = Buggy spaghetti code of an unfinished video standard pulled out of the depths of their aquisition closet.
Android OS = Clunky wanna be iPhone.... looks like beta.

wschutz
May 22, 2010, 02:04 AM
Glad Google is doing this... Apple will have to lower the prices since Google is likely to offer most of its products for free, and even some of them open source while Apple is closed source and at prices for Apple customers ;)

Sorry Steve... you cannot fight Google :) Try to come up with decent prices and you might not fail, otehrwise... good luck...

colinc
May 22, 2010, 02:04 AM
Lets look at this....

Apple TV - Google TV
Apple did this first. (Google setting sights on Apple)

iTunes - Wireless Android Music Syncing
I don't know how wirlelessly syncing with someone iTunes library is detrimental to Apple in any way. Apple may end up selling MORE music if Android users are able to easily sync with iTunes. (No target either side.)

iAds - Google Ads / Admob
Aem... Google did ads first.... (Apple set sights on Google)

h.264 - WebM/VP8
H.264 is not entirely an Apple product and Google also support and use h.264. (No target either side.) Google's opennes means "Everyone is inclusive" remember! ;)

iPhone OS - Android OS
Google bought Android INC in 2005. (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm). Did no one see Android coming? :confused: (Google publicly bought Android INC first)

Sensationalistic article is sensational.

Thank you! You made all the points I was going to make so I didn't have to.

saltcured
May 22, 2010, 02:06 AM
I think it's just that Google is the hot new tech company now and they are feeling very full of themselves, much like Microsoft in the 90's. I think the danger for them is getting too arrogant and losing focus of making great products.

Millah
May 22, 2010, 02:09 AM
Is Google joking? I mean seriously, all this "1984" talk and "the man, draconian future" nonsense. Is Google ****** kidding?

They have probably one of the strongest monopolies in the entire tech industry. Yes, more than Microsoft, since Apple computers have been more competition for them than ever. Google, one company, two men and a mole of a CEO, controlling ALL our information, and being very insensitive towards users privacy. Google is the single biggest hypocrite I've ever heard, they're just jumping on the anti-Apple bandwagon to get all the douche Google fanboys cheering on the sidelines, not even realizing that Google exemplifies EVERYTHING they are saying about Apple, in the worst of ways.

My Google how you've changed.

pharmx
May 22, 2010, 02:10 AM
Google is EXACTLY what Mac and Apple product users should LOVE!

I want Google to battle Apple fiercely on all fronts.

Competition will force Apple to actually consider its users. A Google Chrome OS and Android could force Apple to continually update its products to be not slight improvements over the former models but rather products that actually compete with Google's at every step. Frequent updates with better components that provide substantial updates.

I hope Google truly battles Apple on every product Apple sells. I don't care whether it's MP3 players, routers, displays, smartphone OS, mobile computers, professional computers, tablets, and etc. I want Google to truly go for it and make Apple give a damn about its customers by forcing Apple to provide better products in comparison with Google. Chrome OS could really be the start of something big and benefit all of us Mac users more than OS X could benefit us.

I look forward to this new Google gunning for Apple at every step of the way.

I disagree. If we were talking about one product or product line, I would agree with you, but that simply isn't the case anymore. Both companies have diversified so much, that I think that by trying to compete on all fronts, we'll just end up with subpar products across the board as money is spread thin. I think consumers will be caught in the crossfire, not to mention confused.

For everyone's sake, I hope you're right though.

tom5304
May 22, 2010, 02:11 AM
Just this last week I decided to un-Google my online life. The creepy, sinister, and downright cheesy nature of Google just gave me the heeby-jeebies once too often.

Chrome browser is fast and warm, but Apple isn't mining my data when I use Safari.

Picasa was easy to navigate, but iPhoto is prettier.

Google Documents was convenient, but so incredibly ugly and impossible to format or convert properly.

Gmail was fine, but for the first time this week I started using Apple's MailApp (after using Hotmail for ten years and Gmail for the last few), and suddenly I have no idea how I've put up with web mail for so long.

Google is choking the internet with ugly blighted ads, but Apple's iAd plan of going with quality over quantity gets my vote.

There are people on this thread calling for Apple to "go head-to-head" with Google, but that's not where it's at. It's better to have 10% market share (either in hardware, software, or advertising) and have huge profits than it is to be a blight on the world like Google is becoming, and Microsoft has been, despite their own profits.

I'll give Microsoft credit for one thing, though. They've always been about dominating markets for the purpose of making money. I don't like that approach, but I can respect it. Google's aim is to own every single last piece of your life so they can make money. I do not respect that. It's gross and anti-human.

Somehow Google has made me see Microsoft as a corporation with integrity. Never in my wildest dreams did I see that coming. Nice job, Google. Thanks. You accomplished something, anyway.

Apple should just keep on doing what it's been doing: creating a walled garden of useful, aesthetically-pleasing hardware and software products for people who recognize quality and will pay a premium for it.

I've been paying that premium since my first Macintosh Plus, and I'll keep paying it because I'll go with quality and integrity over crap and duplicity every time.

Peace
May 22, 2010, 02:11 AM
All I can say about this huge mess is I trust Apple with my personal data a LOT more than I do Google. And this IS what this is about. Gathering data about users.

nuckinfutz
May 22, 2010, 02:11 AM
. I just finished watching their Android demo keynote from I/O and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Their Android Intent API stuff is what I've been dreaming of for a while and really severs the physical connection between computer and mobile. Send directions to your phone with one click of your computer's browser. Send an app the same way. Heck, make your entire iTunes library available for streaming! Kind of eliminates the need for a 64GB device.

And all that just kind of scratches the surface.

I really want Apple to think about how people use their devices in different ways. Google kind of ways.

I still plan on getting an iPhone 4G/HD/whatever when it's launched, but now I can't really brag about having the coolest device on the block when it comes to capabilities and software.

Here's that Android keynote: http://bit.ly/bLEF8t

I watched the Keynote. Android Intent sounds cool but then I started to think things through a bit and I decided that I need to see more uses. The Navigation thing is cool but I've already changed how I search for places. I simply fire up my app "Where to" and I search for a location. Once I find that location sending it to my Navigon is a simple choice. So I rarely would be searching from a browser on the desktop and then sending to my phone. Ditto for the next demo where they sent a webpage over to their phone or something like that. Been doing that since I got Instapaper which works easily with a bookmarklet.

Google's done well here with Android but the Lala purchase, the Siri purchase and Apple's movement on iPhone OS shows they've identified where the puck is going to be and are skating rapidly towards it.

spotlight07
May 22, 2010, 02:13 AM
I think Google woke up and realized that Apple could squeeze them out of business if it made an effort --- in the long run. With Apple controlling the hardware, OS, Software that runs on the OS (with respect to iProducts), Media and App Stores, Safari browser and then iAd...all they would need to do is grab the marketshare in this mobile wave like MS grabbed the PC wave and it would be game over for Google.

I mean, we can already see Microsoft is dying a slow death with PCs...obviously the TV and Mobile markets are where the growth is at...and Apple is doing as good a job as anybody (if not better). Since they control all those pieces they could dictate Google out of there...that's why Google is so keen to get into competition with Apple. Microsoft just isn't cutting it like they used to (e.g. retiring the GetAMac campaign).

clientsiman
May 22, 2010, 02:13 AM
Lets look at this....

Apple TV - Google TV
Apple did this first. (Google setting sights on Apple)

iTunes - Wireless Android Music Syncing
I don't know how wirlelessly syncing with someone iTunes library is detrimental to Apple in any way. Apple may end up selling MORE music if Android users are able to easily sync with iTunes. (No target either side.)

iAds - Google Ads / Admob
Aem... Google did ads first.... (Apple set sights on Google)

h.264 - WebM/VP8
H.264 is not entirely an Apple product and Google also support and use h.264. (No target either side.) Google's opennes means "Everyone is inclusive" remember! ;)

iPhone OS - Android OS
Google bought Android INC in 2005. (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm). Did no one see Android coming? :confused: (Google publicly bought Android INC first)

Sensationalistic article is sensational.

I totally agree with you mate.

Iphone has lost it's wow factor.Iphone OS is really showing its age with all that small yearly updates. I think that apple must try give consumers what they want, not wait Job wants for them.
I believe the Google versus Apple fight is gonna give the consumer great products from both companies.

-=XX=-Nephilim
May 22, 2010, 02:16 AM
Google is EXACTLY what Mac and Apple product users should LOVE!

I want Google to battle Apple fiercely on all fronts.

Competition will force Apple to actually consider its users. A Google Chrome OS and Android could force Apple to continually update its products to be not slight improvements over the former models but rather products that actually compete with Google's at every step. Frequent updates with better components that provide substantial updates.

I hope Google truly battles Apple on every product Apple sells. I don't care whether it's MP3 players, routers, displays, smartphone OS, mobile computers, professional computers, tablets, and etc. I want Google to truly go for it and make Apple give a damn about its customers by forcing Apple to provide better products in comparison with Google. Chrome OS could really be the start of something big and benefit all of us Mac users more than OS X could benefit us.

I look forward to this new Google gunning for Apple at every step of the way.

I agree 101%

As Apple user I simply LOVE everything Google has done so far and is about to do in near future...

Who knows - one day I might even replace my MBP with Google Book Pro of some sort...

I know for sure that I much rather have their version of TV and mobile OS :)

Michael CM1
May 22, 2010, 02:17 AM
Is Google joking? I mean seriously, all this "1984" talk and "the man, draconian future" nonsense. Is Google ****** kidding?

They have probably one of the strongest monopolies in the entire tech industry. Yes, more than Microsoft, since Apple computers have been more competition for them than ever. Google, one company, two men and a mole of a CEO, controlling ALL our information, and being very insensitive towards users privacy. Google is the single biggest hypocrite I've ever heard, they're just jumping on the anti-Apple bandwagon to get all the douche Google fanboys cheering on the sidelines, not even realizing that Google exemplifies EVERYTHING they are saying about Apple, in the worst of ways.

My Google how you've changed.

Seriously! I used to like Google because it had a simple interface and didn't try to trick you with the paid search results like Yahoo did.

Now Google has decided to go all Alexander and conquer every domain possible. My problem with Google isn't that, but the fact that Google is going about it by not charging the end user a dime for anything. Even Microsoft charged you for Windows and Office. Google is going to leverage its power in search over ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING until another company or a government stops it. I liked the idea someone else had of Apple working with Yahoo to take on Google.

AAPLaday
May 22, 2010, 02:18 AM
Anybody remember HD-DVD (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/04/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-battle-over-warner-switches-to-blu-ray/)? That's a good example where early adopters had to bet on which horse would win.

Yeah i remember that. I wanted HD-DVD to win :(

John.B
May 22, 2010, 02:22 AM
Eric Schmidt is acting like a spurned ex-girlfriend, running around trying to get all his remaining friends involved in his little lover's quarrel. Dude is seriously pathetic. Grow the **** up, Eric.

emulator
May 22, 2010, 02:22 AM
You just cannot compare Apple TV to anything, it's nothing more than a crappy media player. 720p? What were they smoking? It was a dead product in its zero hour just like the boombox, another nice failure on day one. And the man mentioned the words boombox and audiophile in the same sentence in his presentation. What a joker.

Aegelward
May 22, 2010, 02:24 AM
I have to say, as a user i like openness, the vast majority of the software i use on a daily basis is open source.

But apple have quality on their side, one of the things keeping me in the apple camp as far as personal computers are concerned is how high quality their hardware is, bundle minimal crap ware with their OS, and well, very few PC manufactures have the same 'feel' as a piece of apple hardware, so i'm somewhat willing to pay the premium it entails.

I am feeling very apprehensive about iOS however, i suppose i can understand a few of the restrictions, because even already,iOS is inundated with crapware, and my ipod touch is very slick, but i fear for OSX.

If jobs' starts putting similar restrictions that the iPhone is suffering onto the desktop operating system, hell, i'm jumping ship.

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 02:25 AM
How do you explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8

Taking swipes at the competition during keynotes is not new with the recent Google I/O keynote....

EDIT: Also, ROFL @ Steve's "all redmond try to do is copy Google and Apple" at the end. :P
The commenter you responded to said that Google's swipes at Apple are evidence that Apple is doing well. You're only proving his point by linking to a video of Jobs taking a swipe at Microsoft. Or did you mean to suggest that Microsoft was not doing well in 2006? While I didn't keep an especially close watch, I'm pretty sure their absolute dominance of the desktop PC market was very much in tact for that entire year.

peterdevries
May 22, 2010, 02:26 AM
Apple is still in a great position. Google still outsources hardware development and production to other companies and thus has only limited control.

I cannot imagine that Logitech and Sony will let themselves be totally dictated into what to do by Google.

Apple has total control over both hardware and software, so expect that to be the big differentiator between them and Google et al.

bilbo--baggins
May 22, 2010, 02:26 AM
Apple have dithered around for so long with the Apple TV they deserve to be beaten by the Google TV.

Customers have flooded Apple with requests for what the Apple TV should really do, and it looks like Google have listened.

I use my Apple TV all the time, but it's ridiculously frustrating that we cannot watch programmes streamed over the web (such as Sky or BBC iPlayer).

I will certainly consider buying a Google TV if they do a good job of it.

It will be interesting to see how popular the Google TV becomes - because Apple certainly give the impression that it's a fairly niche market and most people aren't interested, but perhaps that's because if it's major limitations (eg. I'm a Sky subscriber and entitled to free web streaming, so why should I pay to buy TV episodes on the Apple TV when it should let me stream them for free. Same goes for the BBC, as a UK resident we get free access to the iPlayer. I currently have the hassle of having to plug my MacBook Pro into my TV to watch the iPlayer when my Apple TV just sits there unable to provide.

I hope that the lack of real progress with the Apple TV is because Apple has been prepping a MAJOR new release in time to compete with the Google TV. I somehow doubt it though unfortunately. Every time they release an update it feels like a relief they haven't discontinued it, given their apparent lack of motivation.

einmusiker
May 22, 2010, 02:28 AM
do people seriously not see how they are being played here??? google and apple both know full well that this "fight" means big bucks for both companies.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 02:30 AM
The commenter you responded to said that Google's swipes at Apple are evidence that Apple is doing well. You're only proving his point by linking to a video of Jobs taking a swipe at Microsoft. Or did you mean to suggest that Microsoft was not doing well in 2006? While I didn't keep an especially close watch, I'm pretty sure their absolute dominance of the desktop PC market was very much in tact for that entire year.

I was just pointing out that taking jabs at the opposition is nothing unusual. How anyone can come to the conclusion that two competing parties who take digs at each other concludes that one is doing better than the other is beyond me.

I take it that steve's "google is evil ********" jibe also means Google are on to a winner too?

To think that **** talking your competition makes them more successful in any way is absurd.

GordonShumway
May 22, 2010, 02:30 AM
No need to panic. Apple's intention has never been to have the most popular or best selling product, they want to have the best product and the most appealing one.

As long as Android phones continue to look like a piece of crap with all their cheap plastic I don't care how many features the OS has. The new iPhone looks gorgeous, so I'll buy that.

Google has never been about quality, all they do is play the numbers game, being everywhere and earning everywhere, but there's nothing that they do particularly well. That's not how Apple works, they focus on a few things and try to do them right.

Apple is still growing every quarter and I can't see why this should change.

baryon
May 22, 2010, 02:43 AM
I think that while Google is competing directly against Apple, Google's stuff is way lower quality and very badly designed compared to Apple's software. I had a look at my friend's Android phone a few weeks ago and the OS is just a mess, it's seriously lame compared to the iPhone. Then there's the GMail web interface, which is a huge mess as well, full of features I will never use, making it the opposite of simple and minimalistic.

The only things I like from Google are:

Google Search
Google Maps
The Google Chrome Browser (only on PC since Safari is bad on PC)


I'm not sure if Google TV will work. I'm saying that until a company releases an all-in-one TV screen, that has a built in decoder that works for all TV providers worldwide (impossible), with a built in DVD player and hard drive recorder, and make all that cheap and with an interface that's easy to use, a fast boot time and fast switching between channels and some useful features, Television is just going to keep sucking hard, no matter what.

Mackan
May 22, 2010, 02:43 AM
From what I can see, Google is offering openness and choice in their solutions/software/products. It seems they are just a counterpart to Apple, who don't offer openness or choice.

So while Google isn't really innovative, they are very needed. Can't imagine a world where Apple is controlling all software and hardware, telling exactly what you are allowed to do with it.

Makosuke
May 22, 2010, 02:45 AM
It is not a horse race. I repeat, it is not a horse race.

Nearly everyone, disappointingly, frames the competition between Apple and Google as something that is by necessity the same as the '80s, in which Windows "won" and all other platforms "lost." Maybe Apple and Google are thinking of it exactly that way, maybe they're just talking about it that way, but even if that's true, it's not the reality.

This is not the '80s. It would be entirely possible for both sides to "lose," depending on their definition of loss. Or, phrased differently, for both sides could win.

Apple could very easily end up with a solid 25% market share, Google with 40%, and another company or companies with 35%. If that 25% of the market is made up of higher end devices purchased by people who like a curated, vertically integrated system, then Apple might consider that a resounding success. 25% of the future's mobile computing market is massive, and could sustain a large company.

Google, likewise, could have 40% or more and consider that a loss, because it's not 100%, if they're playing for all the marbles. Or they could consider that a resounding success.

I'm not saying there's no chance the world will go 100% in one direction and one company will "win", but I am saying that I find that unlikely. The world has steadily crept toward a platform agnostic core with a lot of platform-specific add-ons depending on user preference. It is, frankly, quite likely that no company will ever be able to leverage themselves into the monopoly position MS managed to, and if that artificial constraint on progress and diversity doesn't happen there's no reason for a device or OS monoculture to exist.

Again, if Apple had 20% market share and a strictly curated, tightly integrated system with less features and freedom than Android, I might well still buy such a device.

It's almost exactly the same as the video game space--I can spend a pile of money on a fancy Windows gaming rig for the flashiest and newest, with a lean toward online and FPS gaming, or I can buy a PS3 for a tightly integrated system with more software constraints but that is in exchange easier to keep running, cheaper, and more stable. Or I can buy a Wii for an entirely different sort of gaming and an even more heavily curated and tightly-integrated experience. Or I can buy all three.

And that's before you even toss much of the web into the mix.

There have been between 3-4 gaming "cultures," and an even larger number of "platforms" when you count handhelds, for the past 30 years. While Sega "lost" neither MS, Sony, nor Nintendo has "won" during that time, and it's unlikely a single player will.

Or try pre-iPhone cell phones. Leaving aside carrier-forced stupidity and crappy web experience and only looking at them as phones, you have many devices from many companies, and no "winner" in the war. 95% of all phones are not and haven't really ever been made by Motorola, Sony-Ericson, or any other single company. All make somewhat compatible products with different features for different preferences, and nobody expects a single device maker to "win". Or cars--it's not like Ford "won", nor does anyone expect there to eventually only be one car company.

Sure, Google wants to have android on 100% of devices, whoever makes them, but I don't think that's going to happen. I could be wrong, but there's hardly a guarantee.

It's called competition, it's good to have it back, and I'm looking forward to it.

WeegieMac
May 22, 2010, 02:50 AM
If Google are allowed to, and are successful in becoming market leader, in the markets it's targeting then the sheer volume of information held in a number of different areas will be frightening.

People moan about Facebook and how it doesn't take privacy seriously enough, but just wait until Google owns almost every service you use to search the web, buy music, watch video, make a call, check email, etc.

They will quite possibly have information about every aspect of your day to day life and your habits, ie: when you log in, what you search for, favourite sites, people you call most, etc.

Obviously this data is collated today by other companies including in my case O2, Apple, etc ... but imagining Google having ALL that information about my digital day to day life is quite frightening.

nuckinfutz
May 22, 2010, 02:51 AM
From what I can see, Google is offering openness and choice in their solutions/software/products. It seems they are just a counterpart to Apple, who don't offer openness or choice.

So while Google isn't really innovative, they are very needed. Can't imagine a world where Apple is controlling all software and hardware, telling exactly what you are allowed to do with it.

LOL. You've been listening too much to propaganda. Google is not more open than Apple. They both have their areas where they protect their profit interests. Both companies are in this business for profit.

cvaldes
May 22, 2010, 02:52 AM
We have just begun to see Apple's vertical integration advantage in the mobile arena. This might be the killer combo. In terms of hardware, they have picked up P.A. Semi and Intrinsity. In a couple of years, we may see some Apple ARM silicon that leaves the competition lacking. If Apple picks up Imagination Technologies as well, we might see further Apple SoC improvements.

Google simply doesn't have that advantage of complete vertical integration, nor does it have a long history of VLSI innovation and hardware manufacturing prowess. Apple finally figured out the consumer electronics market with the iPod. Google has nothing like that.

It will be interesting to see how both sides position themselves, but right now, my money's on Apple.

I'm glad to see that Google has picked such a formidable opponent: the consumers usually win regardless, just because competition spurs innovation.

spotlight07
May 22, 2010, 02:58 AM
Google has never been about quality, all they do is play the numbers game, being everywhere and earning everywhere, but there's nothing that they do particularly well. That's not how Apple works, they focus on a few things and try to do them right.

Quality ...means lots of different things. Google's software is less buggy than Microsoft's ...and neither of them make software that looks as great as Apple's. But quality to Google is a product that functions well. Quality at Microsoft, if lacking, is added in the Marketing department. Apple defines quality as aesthetically pleasing and adds the least possible features based what they think they can get away with and still make you buy it. If you want a feature from Apple you had better hope its a feature that fits with the lowest common denominator. ...no blu-ray (I bought it anyway) ...no removable battery (I bought it anyway) ...no camera on the iPad (I bought it anyway)

It doesn't shine like Apple's does but at least I get a choice with Google's competition.

inkswamp
May 22, 2010, 03:10 AM
I think Google is full of crap right now and half of these announcements are vaporware intended to stave off Apple's lead. The general tone of their conference gives it away. I ran across this very insightful piece (http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100521/viral-video-googles-laughable-but-not-funny-apple-tantrum/?mod=ATD_rss) by Kara Swisher about that. It would seem that Google is a bit rattled by Apple despite their apparent willingness to take them on with each of these initiatives. Funny that the tone of their Google IO conference was so defensive, something I noticed as I followed the coverage. Swisher is the only tech writer out there commenting on it and openly pondering what it might mean.

Johnnnny
May 22, 2010, 03:12 AM
Just going over Apple's patent submissions over the past few months/years shows that, need be, they have a HUGE arsenal of ideas and features never seen before that they can implement in the next iteration of the iPhone... If they ever need to do so.

I think what Jobs is trying to do is think ahead. Apple has got all these amazing ideas, one of which is a great algorithm for flawless music streaming from your computer, and another to integrate a front facing camera into the screen itself (for video conferencing with eye contact).

It is very, very wise to keep new features to a minimum to keep the vast majority (non nerds like the sample population of these rumor/news sites) happy, while maintaining a huge list of potential (and probably READY TO IMPLEMENT) features. That, as well as waiting for hardware prices to drop for even more profitability.

That said from a strictly business perspective, of course.

Apple isn't running out of ideas. They just still think they're ahead. Apple has an extremely strong hand to play, they're just waiting for the right time to blow the world away (again) and bring back said WOW factor in a way we've never seen before.

inkswamp
May 22, 2010, 03:16 AM
From what I can see, Google is offering openness and choice in their solutions/software/products. It seems they are just a counterpart to Apple, who don't offer openness or choice.

What exactly is your definition of "open?"

smiddlehurst
May 22, 2010, 03:17 AM
Glad Google is doing this... Apple will have to lower the prices since Google is likely to offer most of its products for free, and even some of them open source while Apple is closed source and at prices for Apple customers ;)

Sorry Steve... you cannot fight Google :) Try to come up with decent prices and you might not fail, otehrwise... good luck...

Okay I'm sorry but have you been paying attention to Apple at all in the last 5 years+?

Apple aren't interested in world domination. Sure it's a nice side effect but Apple have been utterly focused on dominating the high end of any market as that's where they can make good profit margains and, at the same time, avoid the race for the bottom that's been gutting the PC market for several years now.

Take the iPhone as a prime example - of COURSE Android is going to overtake it, that was inevitable from the moment it emerged as the natural replacement for WM6.5. Even if Apple lowered the iPhone price to zero they'd still get beaten in marketshare because, quite simply, they're one company up against many and don't have the same manufacturing infastructure (and they'd be foolish to try and aquire that much unless they could maintain margains).

It's the same story with every Apple product - it's a high quality, desireable package with a suitably high price tag. That market survived the worst depression for, what, 50 years or more? So it's hardly a particularly dangerous situation to be in. Apple have proved that people WILL pay for a suitably high-quality product (quality being a mix of design, simplicty, ease of use etc) and have a wealth of services behind those products providing added value.

Honestly, the one company that should be worried about Google more than any is Microsoft. It's their market that Google is eyeing with open source alternatives to paid-for OS's that, right now anyway, are ahead in a lot of key areas. If there is a shift in the consumer market to iPad-like devices Microsoft may suddenly find itself boxed in and its primary revenue source badly hurt (there's a reason its putting so much energy and money behind WP7 after all).

Darkroom
May 22, 2010, 03:18 AM
did apple celebrate Pac-Man turning 30 on their front page? no. that's yet another reason why google is way more awesome than apple.

... also, you can actually play that google pac man logo (http://www.google.ca/)! (just wait for it to load)

flottenheimer
May 22, 2010, 03:20 AM
I love both Apple & Google.

If Google stops supporting Apples products/services or vice versa that's when trouble will start for me as an end user. Right now, there's no indication of this actually happening.

inkswamp
May 22, 2010, 03:22 AM
did apple celebrate Pac-Man turning 30 on their front page? no. that's yet another reason why google is way more awesome than apple.

Apple changes their front page when it's truly warranted, not when they want to generate a few cheap headlines by pandering to geeks.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernelpanic/11387944/in/set-283374/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernelpanic/56236086/in/set-283374/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernelpanic/1555639630/in/set-283374/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernelpanic/4444314985/in/set-283374/

chatin
May 22, 2010, 03:24 AM
did apple celebrate Pac-Man turning 30 on their front page? no. that's yet another reason why google is way more awesome than apple.

... also, you can actually play that google pac man logo (http://www.google.ca/)! (just wait for it to load)

Fun game, better than the one on the iPad! Google is in the business of making life better. Apple needs to quit making life miserable for the competition.

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 03:26 AM
I have to say, as a user i like openness, the vast majority of the software i use on a daily basis is open source.

But apple have quality on their side, one of the things keeping me in the apple camp as far as personal computers are concerned is how high quality their hardware is, bundle minimal crap ware with their OS, and well, very few PC manufactures have the same 'feel' as a piece of apple hardware, so i'm somewhat willing to pay the premium it entails.

I am feeling very apprehensive about iOS however, i suppose i can understand a few of the restrictions, because even already,iOS is inundated with crapware, and my ipod touch is very slick, but i fear for OSX.

If jobs' starts putting similar restrictions that the iPhone is suffering onto the desktop operating system, hell, i'm jumping ship.

Check out this article by Bruce Tognazzini (http://www.asktog.com/columns/082iPad&Mac.html). He makes the case that the amount of control Apple exerts over its platforms is proportional to the platform's age and novelty. It's worth reading, especially since his analysis is based on a long-term relationship with Apple.

Personally, I agree with Tog and don't believe Apple will make any effort whatsoever to "backport" iPhone OS-style restrictions to Mac OS X. The platform is already well-established and additional restrictions wouldn't add much value for users and wouldn't create any significant new revenue opportunities. I wouldn't be shocked to see something like an app store for OS X, but it would be an additional software distribution channel -- not a mandatory replacement of the current, ad hoc system.

musio
May 22, 2010, 03:28 AM
My feeling is that Apple should go into the search engine business and blow google out of the water. Apple would make a smoking engine! That would really hit google. We're still in the early days of the internet so Apple, get in there! Esp with all the new server farms apple is building...

Not to take away from this thread but if you want to discuss more i've made a a dedicated topic in the Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion board

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=9949282#post9949282

inkswamp
May 22, 2010, 03:31 AM
The commenter you responded to said that Google's swipes at Apple are evidence that Apple is doing well. You're only proving his point by linking to a video of Jobs taking a swipe at Microsoft. Or did you mean to suggest that Microsoft was not doing well in 2006? While I didn't keep an especially close watch, I'm pretty sure their absolute dominance of the desktop PC market was very much in tact for that entire year.

It's not the taking swipes as the competition. It's the tone and frequency of them. Jobs has a long history of taking swipes at Microsoft, but they're few and far between. By contrast, the incessant Apple commentary at Google IO came off as defensive and petty.

nuckinfutz
May 22, 2010, 03:33 AM
My feeling is that Apple should go into the search engine business and blow google out of the water. Apple would make a smoking engine! That would really hit google. We're still in the early days of the internet so Apple, get in there! Esp with all the new server farms apple is building...

Not to take away from this thread but if you want to discuss more i've made a a dedicated topic in the Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion board

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=9949282#post9949282

They already have

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/28/siri-acquisition-brings-apple-much-closer-to-the-knowledge-navigator-concept/

Consultant
May 22, 2010, 03:38 AM
Google must be hiring the same FUDsters Microsoft hires.

Apple did not lose to Microsoft "last round"

1. Microsoft was given the monopoly by IBM, which is scared of Apple.
2. Morons signed away Apple intellectual property to Microsoft when Steve Jobs was ousted.

RIM and Nokia are not going to give away their smart phone business to Google (especially when Google showed with N1 that Google has zero clue on how to deal with actual paying customers).

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 03:38 AM
Google is EXACTLY what Mac and Apple product users should LOVE!

I want Google to battle Apple fiercely on all fronts.

Competition will force Apple to actually consider its users. A Google Chrome OS and Android could force Apple to continually update its products to be not slight improvements over the former models but rather products that actually compete with Google's at every step. Frequent updates with better components that provide substantial updates.

I hope Google truly battles Apple on every product Apple sells. I don't care whether it's MP3 players, routers, displays, smartphone OS, mobile computers, professional computers, tablets, and etc. I want Google to truly go for it and make Apple give a damn about its customers by forcing Apple to provide better products in comparison with Google. Chrome OS could really be the start of something big and benefit all of us Mac users more than OS X could benefit us.

I look forward to this new Google gunning for Apple at every step of the way.
Ahhh, so the secret to Apple's success is that they don't "give a damn" about their customers! All these years, I've wondered what it was and now you've uncovered it. You should write one of those "How to Make a Million Dollars With My Secret Business Formula" books. One of the selling points would be that the technique is so easy implement. I mean, how tough is it to just not care? Not tough at all!

SeaFox
May 22, 2010, 03:39 AM
Lets look at this....

Apple TV - Google TV
Apple did this first. (Google setting sights on Apple)

iTunes - Wireless Android Music Syncing
I don't know how wirlelessly syncing with someone iTunes library is detrimental to Apple in any way. Apple may end up selling MORE music if Android users are able to easily sync with iTunes. (No target either side.)

iAds - Google Ads / Admob
Aem... Google did ads first.... (Apple set sights on Google)

h.264 - WebM/VP8
H.264 is not entirely an Apple product and Google also support and use h.264. (No target either side.) Google's opennes means "Everyone is inclusive" remember! ;)

iPhone OS - Android OS
Google bought Android INC in 2005. (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm). Did no one see Android coming? :confused: (Google publicly bought Android INC first)

Sensationalistic article is sensational.

Don't forget the title - "Google sets it's sights on Apple", which at first glance suggests that Google wants to buy Apple.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 03:41 AM
It's not the taking swipes as the competition. It's the tone and frequency of them. Jobs has a long history of taking swipes at Microsoft, but they're few and far between. By contrast, the incessant Apple commentary at Google IO came off as defensive and petty.

Having a dedicated 4 minute jab at Microsoft is better than slipping a few jibes in at the competition?

Do we have a specific list in what is wrong and right?

Right:
Specific time slating the competition
Homepage changes that commemorate the deaths of certain people.

Wrong:
Slipping jibes into a keynote.
Celebrating various events on the Google homage. http://www.google.com/logos/

Shouldn't it simply be Apple = right, Google = wrong?

zenntench_oni
May 22, 2010, 03:43 AM
Go Google. lol >:D

seems odd. Google has "oo,le" in its name and Apple has "pp,le" in its name. lol Funny.

Darkroom
May 22, 2010, 03:43 AM
Apple changes their front page when it's truly warranted, not when they want to generate a few cheap headlines by pandering to geeks.

if by "a few cheap headlines" you mean international news, and by "geeks" you mean highly intelligent people who make your world a better place everyday, then i agree.

rococoloco
May 22, 2010, 03:48 AM
Is this an editorial or opinion piece from Macrumours?

Why is this news, it's not being reported from a source, it's not factual, it's reaching and scraping desperately to make a point, why the impetus, why not let Macrumours users come to their own conclusions with out a trail of salacious bread-crumbs...

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 03:51 AM
It's not the taking swipes as the competition. It's the tone and frequency of them. Jobs has a long history of taking swipes at Microsoft, but they're few and far between. By contrast, the incessant Apple commentary at Google IO came off as defensive and petty.
Good point. It's also strange to attack the 3rd place mobile platform provider rather than a dominant, monopolistic market leader. It makes the attacker appear strangely obsessed with a specific company rather than generally scrappy and innovative.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 03:52 AM
if by "a few cheap headlines" you mean international news, and by "geeks" you mean highly intelligent people who make your world a better place everyday, then i agree.

Come on Darkroom. None of these (http://www.google.com/logos/) events are truly warranted until Steve says so. :D

sjo
May 22, 2010, 03:56 AM
Still seems for the time being that Google is playing catch up

Google already caught up Apple: more Androids are sold each day than Iphones. The Android sales are growing at space that makes Apple unlikely to reach the same sales level even when they finally get 4th gen Iphone to the markets some time next month. So Apple has dropped to fourth largest smartphone platform provider after Nokia, RIM and Google. That was fast.

Android TV looks much more like a business than the Apple TV hobby.

macsmurf
May 22, 2010, 03:56 AM
My feeling is that Apple should go into the search engine business and blow google out of the water. Apple would make a smoking engine! That would really hit google. We're still in the early days of the internet so Apple, get in there! Esp with all the new server farms apple is building...

Apple are the best in the world when it comes to usablity, beautiful devices, GUIs etc.

Apple doesn't really seem focused on stuff "under the hood" and probably never will be. I could name a number of products from Google in this area that are really excellent. For example, I've been very impressed with GWT 2.0 and Guice/Gin. The only great framework product from Apple I can think of is WebKit.

Google search was revolutionary when it came out. It had a unique ability to scale and has been developed further along the years. The GUI has been pretty much the same but underneath is an incredibly sofisticated piece of software.

If Apple made a search engine, it would certainly look great :)

WilliamLondon
May 22, 2010, 03:59 AM
You just cannot compare Apple TV to anything, it's nothing more than a crappy media player. 720p? What were they smoking? It was a dead product in its zero hour just like the boombox, another nice failure on day one. And the man mentioned the words boombox and audiophile in the same sentence in his presentation. What a joker.

There are quite a few of us who love our Apple "hobbies", me being one of them. I got mine the day it was released and when I hacked it I gave up my cable box and haven't regretted it since. I love the thing.

Oh, and your silly comment about 720p - at the time that was what people had, 1080p was rare. It needs an update now, sure, but I still use my ATV every single day, and I love it. I haven't watched a programme with advertisements in years.

rhett7660
May 22, 2010, 04:01 AM
I'm a huge Apple nut (natch) and have been a loyal iPhone user for 3 years but what Google is showing with Android is clicking with me. A lot of it just kind of makes sense. Stuff I've been thinking about for a long time now. I just finished watching their Android demo keynote from I/O and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Their Android Intent API stuff is what I've been dreaming of for a while and really severs the physical connection between computer and mobile. Send directions to your phone with one click of your computer's browser. Send an app the same way. Heck, make your entire iTunes library available for streaming! Kind of eliminates the need for a 64GB device.

And all that just kind of scratches the surface.

I really want Apple to think about how people use their devices in different ways. Google kind of ways.

I still plan on getting an iPhone 4G/HD/whatever when it's launched, but now I can't really brag about having the coolest device on the block when it comes to capabilities and software.

Here's that Android keynote: http://bit.ly/bLEF8t

And people say Jobs is smug and arrogant. Good lord. Vic is just as bad.

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 04:01 AM
if by "a few cheap headlines" you mean international news, and by "geeks" you mean highly intelligent people who make your world a better place everyday, then i agree.

There's no arguing that Pac-Man is well-known the world over. However, I don't think the anniversary of a video game qualifies as "international news" outside of an awfully elite circle of disturbingly enthusiastic Pac Man fans. And, while they may be intelligent, I'm not convinced they are making the world any better -- and certainly not on a daily basis.

jhvander
May 22, 2010, 04:03 AM
Great article by Arn IMHO. Succinct and balanced. Macrumors is starting to have a distinct voice among tech blogs, most of which are either illegible and overly partisan or take that breezy 'hey we're a tech blog, pics after the jump if you can wait that long!!!!' tone. I hate that tone, cough--Ghhhrrengadget-cough.

slackpacker
May 22, 2010, 04:04 AM
The Evil Empire rears its ugly heads. Amazing there is a business in re-engineering Apples products and ideas. Its the same thing all over again.... Apple better start suing unfortunately Apple has a big bully to take out even more ruthless than anything Microsoft could have dished out.

Pressure
May 22, 2010, 04:05 AM
The VP8 codec is just a cluster**** waiting to happen.

Give it a few months and the MPEG-LA will have collected patents which the "open" VP8 builds upon.

So we are back to square one.

Not to mention it is inferior to H.264, especially when it comes to compression (which is alpha omega for a site like the Google owned YouTube).

inkswamp
May 22, 2010, 04:10 AM
Having a dedicated 4 minute jab at Microsoft is better than slipping a few jibes in at the competition?

Do we have a specific list in what is wrong and right?

Right:
Specific time slating the competition
Homepage changes that commemorate the deaths of certain people.

Wrong:
Slipping jibes into a keynote.
Celebrating various events on the Google homage. http://www.google.com/logos/

Shouldn't it simply be Apple = right, Google = wrong?

To respond to your first point: it wasn't a 4-minute jab. It was a 4-minute comparison of OS X with Windows Vista with some jabs thrown in. Yes, they took a few shots at MS, but it was in the context of pointing out how completely the market leader in desktop computing was copying their work. They weren't just random, out-of-thin-air insults like what we saw at Google IO.

Your second point: As far as Google and Apple homepages, I don't carry around a strong opinion about that. I was responding to the preceding commenter who claimed Google was greater than Apple for putting PacMan on their homepage. Yeah, it's cool, but at times Google's homepage alterations come off like blatant grabs for attention and it seems they latch on to any event to do it. Apple on the other hand seems to wait for culturally important events. I don't know why Google's approach makes them better. Seems sort of silly to me to draw conclusions about which company is great on that basis.

And your last point about me agreeing with Apple all the time? Please note who started to following two threads...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=483965&highlight=

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=340770&highlight=

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 04:18 AM
I was just pointing out that taking jabs at the opposition is nothing unusual. How anyone can come to the conclusion that two competing parties who take digs at each other concludes that one is doing better than the other is beyond me.

Actually, what we're talking about is an well-known and fairly effective marketing technique. But it only works one way: the lesser players in a market generally benefit if they can associate their brand with the market leader in the minds of potential customers. The market leader derives no such benefit and is generally best served by differentiating their brand and products from that of the competition.


I take it that steve's "google is evil ********" jibe also means Google are on to a winner too?

Those weren't public statements, weren't direct quotes (no one has an audio recording afaik), and the use of the expletive and general characterization of an exasperated Steve Jobs have been strongly disputed by Apple employees who were present. So, that definitely wasn't part of a marketing strategy on Apple's part. It really doesn't make any sense to compare such remarks with Google's scripted, high profile and widely covered developer conference.


To think that **** talking your competition makes them more successful in any way is absurd.
You've got it backwards. Publicly disparaging your competition doesn't make them more successful. You do it because they are more successful.

Consultant
May 22, 2010, 04:20 AM
Ahhh, so the secret to Apple's success is that they don't "give a damn" about their customers! All these years, I've wondered what it was and now you've uncovered it. You should write one of those "How to Make a Million Dollars With My Secret Business Formula" books. One of the selling points would be that the technique is so easy implement. I mean, how tough is it to just not care? Not tough at all!

Exactly.

Some people can't tell what's marketing FUD and reality.

Infrared
May 22, 2010, 04:20 AM
I think Google is full of crap right now and half of these announcements are vaporware intended to stave off Apple's lead. The general tone of their conference gives it away. I ran across this very insightful piece (http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100521/viral-video-googles-laughable-but-not-funny-apple-tantrum/?mod=ATD_rss) by Kara Swisher about that. It would seem that Google is a bit rattled by Apple despite their apparent willingness to take them on with each of these initiatives.

That is complacent, if you ask me. Sales of Android units increased
ninefold this last year. Android has already taken 2nd place from
Apple in the US smartphone market:

http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_100510.html

Which is not to say the iPhone is destined to fail. But you would be
foolish to ignore the threat from Android.

Darkroom
May 22, 2010, 04:20 AM
There's no arguing that Pac-Man is well-known the world over. However, I don't think the anniversary of a video game qualifies as "international news" outside of an awfully elite circle of disturbingly enthusiastic Pac Man fans. And, while they may be intelligent, I'm not convinced they are making the world any better -- and certainly not on a daily basis.

CBC: Canada (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/05/21/google-pac-man-doodle-logo.html)
Telegraph: UK (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/7750074/Pac-Man-30th-anniversary-marked-by-Google-Doodle.html)
CNN: United States (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/05/21/pac-man.game.anniversary/index.html)
etc.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 04:25 AM
To respond to your first point: it wasn't a 4-minute jab. It was a 4-minute comparison of OS X with Windows Vista with some jabs thrown in. Yes, they took a few shots at MS, but it was in the context of pointing out how completely the market leader in desktop computing was copying their work. They weren't just random, out-of-thin-air insults like what we saw at Google IO.
The press love the whole Apple Vs Google thing and it generates publicity and most improtantly, page hits. (this "article" proves that). Perhaps Google were playing to these very vultures for some quick, easy publicity? It's certainly made headlines.

Your second point: As far as Google and Apple homepages, I don't carry around a strong opinion about that. I was responding to the preceding commenter who claimed Google was greater than Apple for putting PacMan on their homepage. Yeah, it's cool, but at times Google's homepage alterations come off like blatant grabs for attention and it seems they latch on to any event to do it. Apple on the other hand seems to wait for culturally important events. I don't know why Google's approach makes them better. Seems sort of silly to me to draw conclusions about which company is great on that basis.

And your last point about me agreeing with Apple all the time? Please note who started to following two threads...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=483965&highlight=

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=340770&highlight=

I'm not calling you an Apple apologist in any way but it seems that Apple and Google do the same thing yet one (in your opinion) holds a higher regard over the other.

For those questioning Google's targeting Apple, have we forgotten this (Steve's alleged attack on Google when they were far, far lower in marketshare (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/31/steve-jobs-at-apple-town-hall-meeting-google-adobe-next-iphone-2010-macs-and-more/)?

Why didn't he comment on Nokia with regards to killing the iPhone? They are worldwide market leaders.

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 04:28 AM
CBC: Canada (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/05/21/google-pac-man-doodle-logo.html)
Telegraph: UK (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/7750074/Pac-Man-30th-anniversary-marked-by-Google-Doodle.html)
CNN: United States (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/05/21/pac-man.game.anniversary/index.html)
etc.

Two of those stories are about the Google home page. The other is a tech section item, one of many. Did you have a point?

pamon
May 22, 2010, 04:29 AM
i just don't google tv taking off. could be wrong. do i want google on my tv or controlling any of it. nope

paja
May 22, 2010, 04:31 AM
Well, one Android OS on all (very different) phones don’t sound like a bright future to me.

Google looks to dominate not only the web, but to control the entire flow of information. The potential for abuse of this power is enormous and very frightening to me.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 04:32 AM
You've got it backwards. Publicly disparaging your competition doesn't make them more successful. You do it because they are more successful.

Okay. Under that remit, how do you explain these:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20002922-71.html
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-or-a-task-manager-they-blew-it/

Do these displays against Android mean "You do it because they are more successful."? Jobs is guilty of exactly what people are saying is desperate here.

CmdrLaForge
May 22, 2010, 04:36 AM
Besides Android, those are not really the key areas from Apple, besides Android of course.

I guess I have to try harder to leave Google behind.

To compete - making MobileMe free would be a great start from Apple.

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 04:39 AM
Okay. Under that remit, how do you explain these:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20002922-71.html
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-or-a-task-manager-they-blew-it/

Do these public displays against Android mean "You do it because they are more successful."? Jobs is guilty of exactly what people are saying is desperate here.

How does an email response to an individual customer and an answer that didn't include any reference to Google or Android constitute a "public display against Android"?

deadkennedy
May 22, 2010, 04:39 AM
NutJobs is really going berserk, is this guy in hate with all of the world? I never new up to this year that he is so mentally challenged, I had a huge respect for Apple products but seeing how he's closing the company more and more and being evil to all the others in the industry I really can't see Apple lasting for long. He's digging Apple's own grave.

macduke
May 22, 2010, 04:39 AM
I'm a lot more worried about Google being a "big brother" than Apple. They already have tons of data about their users—almost as creepy as Facebook. BTW I shut down my Facebook account the other day because I was tired of their info harvesting / crap apps / security issues and hurdles that I had to jump through every few months just to lock down half my stuff when they changed their terms.

Google is more likely to take over the world and control our lives. It seems like every week they are entering into a new business / market. I can't even list off half the stuff they've jumped into the last few years because there is so much.

I do think that the App Store needs to be more open though. I jailbroke my first iDevice recently, my iPad, since I have my iPhone for fallback and critical communications. I'm amazed by the stuff I can do with it now. Like pairing up a Wii remote and playing SNES. Though that would never be allowed for legal reasons. But stuff like custom gestures with Activator, or Full Force to dynamically enlarge iPhone apps (no pixel doubling), or custom bluetooth stacks for the Magic Mouse, or SBSettings are things that I'd love to have in the App Store.

Anyhow, the market will figure this all out. Money will move either company to change their plan. I agree with others—I wish that Apple and Google could just live together in harmony. Apple design and usability will always win out for me over a list of features. But lately Google has a lot of fresh ideas. Sigh...

Oflife
May 22, 2010, 04:41 AM
We tried to use Google Docs for some basic business tasks. Total disaster! It is full of bugs and the lack of integration between modules or user interface consistency was outrageous. We gave up, and are using local Apple iWorks apps (Numbers & Pages), and still use Google docs spreadsheet, as that is the one thing that works without breaking.

Google does not know how to turn a good idea into a polished end-user product. Most of their services are in beta forever. I interviewed with Google, and even my interviewers mentioned the fact that everything seems to stay in beta forever. The only thing that Google does well is search, and search is the only real generator of ad revenue for them. They are now trying to branch out with their ad placements to other areas, but the bottom line is that the end goal is always ad revenue and not the product itself. However, only the smartest people work for Google, and as long as Google makes a lot of money and can afford to employ the smartest people, Google will be a real threat to the market share for any competitor, including Apple.

What Apple should do is accept the challenge from Google and compete with Google head-to-head, including search. Search is the only thing that is missing from the Apple's product portfolio, and I believe they don't have to look in far places. Yahoo is right down the road from them.

To me, Google has turned into an evil entity - the one that turns on its old friend and stabs him in the back. I want to take sides and vote with my computing patterns, including search. I do not want to go exclusively to Google any time I need to find something, but frankly, Google is the only real authority in search. I wish Apple would buy Yahoo and turn it into a real search competitor to Google.

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 04:45 AM
The press love the whole Apple Vs Google thing and it generates publicity and most improtantly, page hits. (this "article" proves that). Perhaps Google were playing to these very vultures for some quick, easy publicity? It's certainly made headlines.

That's debatable and, more importantly, it's a non sequitur.



I'm not calling you an Apple apologist in any way but it seems that Apple and Google do the same thing yet one (in your opinion) holds a higher regard over the other.

I think inkswamp's entire point is that they are not doing the same thing.


For those questioning Google's targeting Apple, have we forgotten this (Steve's alleged attack on Google when they were far, far lower in marketshare (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/31/steve-jobs-at-apple-town-hall-meeting-google-adobe-next-iphone-2010-macs-and-more/)?

As I mentioned earlier, that wasn't a public statement, wasn't a quote and is in dispute as to exactly what was said.


Why didn't he comment on Nokia with regards to killing the iPhone? They are worldwide market leaders.
Because Nokia wasn't smart enough to know that they needed to worry about the iPhone.

Stridder44
May 22, 2010, 04:47 AM
No matter who's side you're on, everyone can agree that this is a very interesting time right now. Things will probably get very interesting over the next 5 years.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 04:47 AM
How does an email response to an individual customer and an answer that didn't include any reference to Google or Android constitute a "public display against Android"?

You are right. It appears I have taken those articles completely out of context (what a fool!). My mistake.... :o
NSNMonkey 1 - Chaz 0

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 04:50 AM
NutJobs is really going berserk, is this guy in hate with all of the world? I never new up to this year that he is so mentally challenged, I had a huge respect for Apple products but seeing how he's closing the company more and more and being evil to all the others in the industry I really can't see Apple lasting for long. He's digging Apple's own grave.
That's funny, I didn't know Eric Schmidt went by the name 'NutJobs'. And you might want to fix your post. Schmidt works for Google, not Apple.

Cloudane
May 22, 2010, 04:59 AM
even going so far as comparing the company to Big Brother from 1984

That's rich coming from Google, with camera vans going down every street, a database of wifi points and locations, harvesting of personal data, dodgy EULAs giving them massive control over users etc. The only one closer to Big Brother than them is Facebook!

Oh but it's okay for Google to do it because "we do no evil". Hmmmmmm, I wonder about that.

Bit dodgy that Apple is making so many enemies though. There's never a day goes by without a story about them declaring war on another big corporation (or vice versa). When it comes to Google they do have a point - their only innovation is in web search, as the phone contains no innovation whatsoever (it's just a poor man's copy of the iPhone, much like Ubuntu 10 is a poor man's copy of OS X), always playing catch-up and rip-off. So Apple do have a point. It's scary that they're making so many enemies though.

Stridder44
May 22, 2010, 04:59 AM
Yeah i remember that. I wanted HD-DVD to win :(

Why :confused: It was an inferior product. Blu-ray is not perfect by any means, but it's a hell of a lot better than HD-DVD.

ChazUK
May 22, 2010, 05:00 AM
That's debatable and, more importantly, it's a non sequitur.
I think inkswamp's entire point is that they are not doing the same thing.
As I mentioned earlier, that wasn't a public statement, wasn't a quote and is in dispute as to exactly what was said.
Because Nokia wasn't smart enough to know that they needed to worry about the iPhone.
I gey what you and Inkswamp are digging at now so I also own an apology to Inkswamp as well as you.

I gues I've been suckered into the very media hype I despise. :(

Apologies.

Reed Rothchild
May 22, 2010, 05:00 AM
This seems to be a very weak and unsubstantiated front page "article". Macrumors must have noticed that "Google v Apple" stories generate the most adsense revenue - which is a nice tipping of the hat towards Google. It's a win win for both :D.

NSMonkey
May 22, 2010, 05:03 AM
You are right. It appears I have taken those articles completely out of context (what a fool!). My mistake.... :o
NSNMonkey 1 - Chaz 0
Well that's very cool and kind of unusual to actually concede a point. Cheers!

For the record, I'm not saying that Apple is somehow "above" making denigrating remarks about their competitors or something silly like that, I just didn't agree that the two companies' remarks about each other can be dismissed as equivalent.

skate71290
May 22, 2010, 05:07 AM
This is incredible, now it's all put together, it will be Apple Vs Google WW3 style :rolleyes: the great thing is for all us consumers, competition may drive prices down, make buying Apple products less costly and see more features per update, hopefully? and i just want that to do something more about AppleTV and improve their h.264 codec, and can anyone tell me what UK available phones use Android OS as i would like to test it out, Regards, skate71290

Edit: Although this might mean that Google Search will change to Bing, and we will never see Google Maps again or a Google Finance Widget on the iPhone :( i hate Microsoft Bing, i hate Yahoo! Stocks Widget, and i love Google Maps :(

Stridder44
May 22, 2010, 05:12 AM
did apple celebrate Pac-Man turning 30 on their front page? no. that's yet another reason why google is way more awesome than apple.

... also, you can actually play that google pac man logo (http://www.google.ca/)! (just wait for it to load)

If this is all it takes to persuade you, I have a full website of games you can play here (http://www.addictinggames.com/index.html). Now I suppose will you follow my every word and tell the intrawebs how awesome I am.

That's rich coming from Google, with camera vans going down every street, a database of wifi points and locations, harvesting of personal data, dodgy EULAs giving them massive control over users etc. The only one closer to Big Brother than them is Facebook!

Oh but it's okay for Google to do it because "we do no evil". Hmmmmmm, I wonder about that.

Bit dodgy that Apple is making so many enemies though. There's never a day goes by without a story about them declaring war on another big corporation (or vice versa). When it comes to Google they do have a point - their only innovation is in web search, as the phone contains no innovation whatsoever (it's just a poor man's copy of the iPhone, much like Ubuntu 10 is a poor man's copy of OS X), always playing catch-up and rip-off. So Apple do have a point. It's scary that they're making so many enemies though.

Enemies? What enemies? Being sensationalist much? There have been people that hate Apple since the beginning of time, just like there have been people who hate Microsoft, or whatever company X. What enemies are you talking about? Competition ≠ enemy. Apple targeted Flash, not Adobe. They clarified it themselves. Microsoft and Apple have been picking at each other for eons. Google has been throwing a fit lately like a whiny child, blaming Apple as the source of its' suffering.

freebooter
May 22, 2010, 05:14 AM
Google vs Apple.

It's like Stalin vs Hitler. While both were odiously totalitarian in spirit, the Nazis had the initial edge in speed, innovation, and marketing/cult-appeal. But their philosophy and early success made them arrogant and over confident, and they made enemies wherever they went. The USSR eventually crushed them with her size, resources, and strategic alliances.

Apple could learn something from that.

rdowns
May 22, 2010, 05:20 AM
Google does not know how to turn a good idea into a polished end-user product. Most of their services are in beta forever. I interviewed with Google, and even my interviewers mentioned the fact that everything seems to stay in beta forever. The only thing that Google does well is search, and search is the only real generator of ad revenue for them. They are now trying to branch out with their ad placements to other areas, but the bottom line is that the end goal is always ad revenue and not the product itself. However, only the smartest people work for Google, and as long as Google makes a lot of money and can afford to employ the smartest people, Google will be a real threat to the market share for any competitor, including Apple.

What Apple should do is accept the challenge from Google and compete with Google head-to-head, including search. Search is the only thing that is missing from the Apple's product portfolio, and I believe they don't have to look in far places. Yahoo is right down the road from them.

To me, Google has turned into an evil entity - the one that turns on its old friend and stabs him in the back. I want to take sides and vote with my computing patterns, including search. I do not want to go exclusively to Google any time I need to find something, but frankly, Google is the only real authority in search. I wish Apple would buy Yahoo and turn it into a real search competitor to Google.


Excellent post.

With Google opening up these new fronts in their war with Apple, Apple needs to open one in search. I have always said Apple shouldn't get into search but Google's moves have changed my mind. making Google defend their search business can only help Apple in the other areas.

mrochester
May 22, 2010, 05:30 AM
It really seems like Google are turning up the heat.

AlmostThere
May 22, 2010, 05:34 AM
This seems to be a very weak and unsubstantiated front page "article".

Have to agree - the comparisons and jibes are simply hot air playing up to the media. Apple and Google only clash superficially, although Mac users in general seem particularly unable to see past this.

There is a space-race, of sorts, going on between the two companies but the goals are completely different. While Apple's goal is to build the shiniest and fastest rocket (they do), Google are looking to deliver the change in perspective that comes from seeing the Earth from space.

Google simply need some of their own rockets to get them into space - and when your focus (Apple / Mac users) is on shiny rockets, that is all you tend to see.

While the iPhone, iPad and Apple computers are outstanding devices, the ability to search nearly all of the information on the planet from a simple web page, to view anywhere on the planet through Google Earth or Maps, or to translate between any of 50+ languages at the click of a button are the really world-changing and breathtaking steps forward that can touch billions of lives.

(Yes, Google products could have better interfaces, and they face tough choices with places like China, and they tread a fine line in terms of personal data when it comes to helping *you* finding the information *you* are looking for ... but nobody should lose sight over which of these companies is really bringing change to the world, especially when you step out of over-privileged wealth that enables someone to become a Mac user.)

AlmostThere
May 22, 2010, 05:40 AM
With Google opening up these new fronts in their war with Apple, Apple needs to open one in search. I have always said Apple shouldn't get into search but Google's moves have changed my mind. making Google defend their search business can only help Apple in the other areas.

Search is not a design problem. Improving computers and mobile devices is. If Apple built the devices Google needed, there wouldn't be any conflict.

Lesser Evets
May 22, 2010, 05:42 AM
Is Google joking? I mean seriously, all this "1984" talk and "the man, draconian future" nonsense. Is Google ****** kidding?

They have probably one of the strongest monopolies in the entire tech industry. Yes, more than Microsoft, since Apple computers have been more competition for them than ever. Google, one company, two men and a mole of a CEO, controlling ALL our information, and being very insensitive towards users privacy. Google is the single biggest hypocrite I've ever heard, they're just jumping on the anti-Apple bandwagon to get all the douche Google fanboys cheering on the sidelines, not even realizing that Google exemplifies EVERYTHING they are saying about Apple, in the worst of ways.

My Google how you've changed.

Best post in the entire thread.

The moment Google abuses that information and people react to it, you will see the biggest collapse of a company ever seen.
I really don't think Google has been focused keenly on the consumer for a while. They are more focused on becoming a huge company with tentacles into all information possible. There is where the Apple/Google split begins. As Google becomes more successful, it is possible you will see their entire operation disintegrate due to a lousy MO. Jobs has always been about making beneficial devices or software that help enable people; there's a lot of good in his underlying motives and it allows his company to thrive. Google is still trying to catch up to Apple's R&D, being a tagalong in the market. If they ever get out front, I'd be surprised if they can become an innovator like Apple has been.

rish
May 22, 2010, 05:45 AM
As of right now, there are no ad generating apps on my phone. All apps with Admob I've removed.

As of now no more Google search on my iPhone, I've moved to Yahoo search.

As of now no more use of Gmail and no more of me encouraging people to use it.

As of now I will stop using Google maps on my iPhone. And I will go on and on and on and advocate the same to my friends and family.

Steve was bang on re Googles mantra " Don't do Evil" but heres the crux, as they've generated investors it's ultimately what they've become.

If over a short period of time I can move 12 people to the Mac and it's products, then over a year I should be able to move off plenty from Google. I'm OCD so I know I can do this. Day one is right now.

macsmurf
May 22, 2010, 05:53 AM
Google has been throwing a fit lately like a whiny child, blaming Apple as the source of its' suffering.

Google isn't suffering. At all.

rish
May 22, 2010, 05:56 AM
Best post in the entire thread.

The moment Google abuses that information and people react to it, you will see the biggest collapse of a company ever seen.
I really don't think Google has been focused keenly on the consumer for a while. They are more focused on becoming a huge company with tentacles into all information possible. There is where the Apple/Google split begins. As Google becomes more successful, it is possible you will see their entire operation disintegrate due to a lousy MO. Jobs has always been about making beneficial devices or software that help enable people; there's a lot of good in his underlying motives and it allows his company to thrive. Google is still trying to catch up to Apple's R&D, being a tagalong in the market. If they ever get out front, I'd be surprised if they can become an innovator like Apple has been.

Well observed.

Mackan
May 22, 2010, 06:08 AM
LOL. You've been listening too much to propaganda. Google is not more open than Apple. They both have their areas where they protect their profit interests. Both companies are in this business for profit.

How you can come to the conclusion that Google is not more open than Apple is beyond me. But nothing surprises me on these forums.

macsmurf
May 22, 2010, 06:13 AM
Well observed.

And of course, in true MacRumors style, mostly wrong. However, it is true that if Google abused their market position, the company would be destroyed. So they don't.

Google has been the driving force behind the internet for more than a decade. To say they aren't innovative will just embarrass you if you accidentally come across people who know a bit about the history of the internet.

Google made "simple" search the most popular way of searching in the world using a highly innovative and scalable search algorithm. Google has been at the forefront of working with large distributed systems for a long time. Google popularized Ajax and redefined what you could do with a website. Even the Google business model was something completely new in the early days of the internet. I could go on.

Google continues to bring out products that makes a difference. Apple does that too. They were bound to collide at some point.

haulis
May 22, 2010, 06:17 AM
I think we tend to blow a lot of this out of proportion. At the end of they day both Apple and Google know that they are successful at what they do and I really doubt they hate each other as much as we think. I can definitely see that companies can grow apart based on the markets they are playing in, but it seems that the direct digs have been more for employees and developers in order to drum up support within the company. It makes thing interesting and as I consumer I will sit back, smile and watch the competitiveness increase, which will only help us, the consumer.

In fact this is the first time where I have had a really difficult time in deciding what my next phone will be where as before it was an obvious choice.

ValSalva
May 22, 2010, 06:17 AM
I don't think this MacRumors article is unsubstantiated. Watch the entire I/O conference and you'll see all the obvious jabs at Apple.

This will be a battle with two flawed giants: Apple with its closed environment hostile to developers. While Apple micromanages app stores and loses focus on its core business the other competitors will catch up.

Then there's Google the giant that created an advertising dynasty with what amounts to a license to print money. Their major flaw is that there is no clear visionary in place. They waste a tremendous amount of money/resources on ill conceived, pie in the sky projects by engineers disconnected from reality. Google will eventually win in the mobile space simply because they are huge. The Google tsunami is heading to Apple's shores.

Jobsian
May 22, 2010, 06:18 AM
Google is EXACTLY what Mac and Apple product users should LOVE!

I want Google to battle Apple fiercely on all fronts.

Competition will force Apple to actually consider its users. A Google Chrome OS and Android could force Apple to continually update its products to be not slight improvements over the former models but rather products that actually compete with Google's at every step. Frequent updates with better components that provide substantial updates.

I hope Google truly battles Apple on every product Apple sells. I don't care whether it's MP3 players, routers, displays, smartphone OS, mobile computers, professional computers, tablets, and etc. I want Google to truly go for it and make Apple give a damn about its customers by forcing Apple to provide better products in comparison with Google. Chrome OS could really be the start of something big and benefit all of us Mac users more than OS X could benefit us.

I look forward to this new Google gunning for Apple at every step of the way.Exactly right. Anyone wishing for a monopoly either way is the unwitting supporter of death to the consumer: privacy, choice, innovation etc

I've just finished watching the full froyo keynote which was kindly posted on page 1 and by god are they gunning for Apple! Seriously, watch it if you haven't already. This can only be good for us. I do worry about possible less google integration on my Apple products in the future though.

On a principled level, I'm more comfortable with Google's stated open and seemingly benevolent policy however I do wonder whether it's ultimately just a question of honesty seeing as they're just another behemoth corporation which must legally prioritise profit for it's shareholders, eschewing any sense of morality if it dares get in the way.

Finally, I have to state this here to release some of the excitement/anxiety flooding me at present, consider it my signature: I really hope we see a new MacBook Air at WWDC, the best notebook ever created by any manufacturer in the history of computers imo.

pubwvj
May 22, 2010, 06:27 AM
Google has lost their way.
Their soul is bogged in mud.
They are doing evil. Witness the Wi-Fi data gathering.
Google with their drive-by shootings is Big Brother watching.
They need to refocus on their center, their core.
Google was very good at search engines and ads.
Focus. See clearly.

Erwin-Br
May 22, 2010, 06:28 AM
I see the poor fanboys are really upset about Google jabbing at Apple during their keynote. Pathetic, considering Apple has been taking jabs at Microsoft for years during events. Apple even took it a step further with those TV ads trying to insult instead of inform.

jb1280
May 22, 2010, 06:31 AM
Google is really good at making anything that is technically possible available, but this is done best when they control all aspects of the product. Things such as search, online services, etc.

To me it's still not apparent that the are going to be able to deliver on 100% of the things that they are trying to promote here. A major problem with Google is they fail to realize limitations that are beyond their control.

With Google Books and Google Scholar, there have already been issues.

Let's take the latest version of Android: Google demonstrates a lot of cool features that the OS can now do: Flash, mobile hotspot, over-the-air streaming, really deep wireless connectivity, etc. This is all really cool stuff. There was some engineer who blogged that wireless tethering is at no extra cost. Maybe it was a slip of the tongue, but probably just an ignorance of business reality.

What happens when Verizon creates a terraced pricing scheme for quantity of wireless tethering?

What happens when a Sprint charges an extra $10 for the ability to stream your audio or media from home to your device?

What happens when ATT says no tethering at all on Android devices?

What happens when complaints start about their phone lasting for 2 hours when people wirelessly tether 4G while watching a video in flash?

Let's take for instance when Google gets into Music and eBooks and alike.

What happens when Google's "openness" butts heads with publishers and music companies?

What exactly is the business model going to be?

Let's take GoogleTV?

What happens when HULU says that, "no, HULU will never touch GoogleTV?"

Simply, is Google going to be successful at creating good working relationships with a lot of very diverse groups, including consumers?

On the other side, you have Apple. Compared to what Google is able to do, everything looks very conservative - but except for a few examples (MobileMe, ATT, AppleTV) they have delivered everything that has been featured in a high-quality way.

Apple may not play terribly well with other tech companies, for instance, Adobe. They, do, however, play better with diverse companies and ultimately consumers.

In the end, they are two very diverse but dynamic companies trying to maximize their influence. I think Google takes the position that they throw everything out there, and 10% succeeds, it's great. Apple, takes a different position, that it doesn't go public until there are demonstrably deliverable features.

pubwvj
May 22, 2010, 06:33 AM
We're already seeing Google stumble badly with social networking initiatives. Google's AdWords cash cow might eventually droop and they have no other revenue stream. Advertising generates something like 98% of Google's revenue.

On my blog I used to get large checks from Google for ads. Now I get a couple of hundred dollars a year. I have a large readership that has expanded in that same time. The problem is Google's been serving up public service announcements and their own ads rather than real ads. I just removed Google ads. I know a lot of other bloggers who've done the same. I sell more ads directly and get a lot more money that way. No need to have Google standing in the middle collecting tolls if they're not going to pass along my percentage.

iPadThai
May 22, 2010, 06:34 AM
All of this hoopla about google vs. apple is good entertainment. that's it.

It's a simple question really: How many of you would spend your hard earned (or free money obtained from that money tree in the backyard) to purchase a google branded device or an apple device?

It's just like the real lame console wars: Wii, Xbox360, or PS3. If you have money, buy all three and can enjoy the benefits of all three. But cellphones are not like game machines because they don't get updated every month like some phones (cough google).

The ones that make the most money and laughing at you clowns who are bitching back and forth about google loves me, or apple does me right will be the telecommunications companies.

Just calculate your costs here:

$49.99 single line plan (cheapest for AT&T) +
$30.00 iPhone data plan +
$20.00 iPhone text plan (optional)

You're looking at near $120 a month. that's BEFORE your state, local/city taxes kick in (and believe me they are screwing you harder than anyone else).

Without tax, you have $120 x 24 months = $2880 + $199/$299 (for an iPhone).

That's over $3000 for AT&T and that's only for one individual for two years guaranteed for AT&T.

If you look at verizon, sprint, and tmobile, they will be about the same but maybe a bit less.

In the end, if you want to say F U to both apple and google, just don't buy a smartphone. Don't use a phone period. But that's not realistic I suppose.

I really don't care who makes the best phone; I just want the f-ckung monthly service charges to GO DOWN and NOT INCREASE...EVER.

I really don't know about you guys, but I'm starting to scratch my head thinking why the hell does owning a cell phone costs $1400/year?????

/rant

pubwvj
May 22, 2010, 06:35 AM
Sorry Steve... you cannot fight Google :) Try to come up with decent prices and you might not fail, otehrwise... good luck...

Uhm... The iPad came in at half what speculators were saying it would be. Apple produces it for half of that. Apple crushed the competition with that low price. Other companies killed their tablet products because they can't compete with Apple's iPad.

macsmurf
May 22, 2010, 06:35 AM
Google has lost their way.
Their soul is bogged in mud.
They are doing evil. Witness the Wi-Fi data gathering.
Google with their drive-by shootings is Big Brother watching.
They need to refocus on their center, their core.
Google was very good at search engines and ads.
Focus. See clearly.

Wow. It's like a religious cult. Do you have a shrine as well?

Angelchild
May 22, 2010, 06:39 AM
iPhone OS - Android OS
Google bought Android INC in 2005. (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm). Did no one see Android coming? :confused: (Google publicly bought Android INC first)

Sensationalistic article is sensational.

Apple started developing iPhone in mid 2004. So BEFORE Google bought android.

These are times in which I see too many fandroids.

joemama
May 22, 2010, 06:47 AM
Does anyone think Apple and Microsoft will be "joining forces" in the near future to take on Google?

j-traxx
May 22, 2010, 06:50 AM
I'm a huge Apple nut (natch) and have been a loyal iPhone user for 3 years but what Google is showing with Android is clicking with me. A lot of it just kind of makes sense. Stuff I've been thinking about for a long time now. I just finished watching their Android demo keynote from I/O and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Their Android Intent API stuff is what I've been dreaming of for a while and really severs the physical connection between computer and mobile. Send directions to your phone with one click of your computer's browser. Send an app the same way. Heck, make your entire iTunes library available for streaming! Kind of eliminates the need for a 64GB device.

And all that just kind of scratches the surface.

I really want Apple to think about how people use their devices in different ways. Google kind of ways.

I still plan on getting an iPhone 4G/HD/whatever when it's launched, but now I can't really brag about having the coolest device on the block when it comes to capabilities and software.

Here's that Android keynote: http://bit.ly/bLEF8t


do you seriously not know that these google way's of doing things are actually things that were conceptualized and put into research during Eric's tenure on the board? He had all that inside info on apple then and he's rushing it out for google now. there will be a point when the innovations stop and google will run out of the juicy stuff they snagged while on the apple board. then they'll be playing catchup again.

ValSalva
May 22, 2010, 06:59 AM
I miss the Microsoft vs. Apple battles. That was when Apple still took computers seriously. Now it feels like they've conceded that market to Microsoft. Apple seems to think mobile is the only future.

sirozha
May 22, 2010, 07:02 AM
All of this hoopla about google vs. apple is good entertainment. that's it.

It's a simple question really: How many of you would spend your hard earned (or free money obtained from that money tree in the backyard) to purchase a google branded device or an apple device?

It's just like the real lame console wars: Wii, Xbox360, or PS3. If you have money, buy all three and can enjoy the benefits of all three. But cellphones are not like game machines because they don't get updated every month like some phones (cough google).

The ones that make the most money and laughing at you clowns who are bitching back and forth about google loves me, or apple does me right will be the telecommunications companies.

Just calculate your costs here:

$49.99 single line plan (cheapest for AT&T) +
$30.00 iPhone data plan +
$20.00 iPhone text plan (optional)

You're looking at near $120 a month. that's BEFORE your state, local/city taxes kick in (and believe me they are screwing you harder than anyone else).

Without tax, you have $120 x 24 months = $2880 + $199/$299 (for an iPhone).

That's over $3000 for AT&T and that's only for one individual for two years guaranteed for AT&T.

If you look at verizon, sprint, and tmobile, they will be about the same but maybe a bit less.

In the end, if you want to say F U to both apple and google, just don't buy a smartphone. Don't use a phone period. But that's not realistic I suppose.

I really don't care who makes the best phone; I just want the f-ckung monthly service charges to GO DOWN and NOT INCREASE...EVER.

I really don't know about you guys, but I'm starting to scratch my head thinking why the hell does owning a cell phone costs $1400/year?????

/rant

Good point. So, pay full price for an iPhone ($600), jail break it and unlock it while you still can - I believe it still comes locked to ATT if you pay full price, but you do not to have to sign a contract with them. Then get a pre-paid SIM card (either from ATT or T-Mobile), and use only the minutes you must. I think you will save big if all you want is voice.

awmazz
May 22, 2010, 07:07 AM
So why doesn't Apple enter the search engine market? Microsoft has. Judging by Google's market capitalization and income it's an extremely lucrative market.

I can't imagine Google continuing to enter all these other markets and outcompeting everyone by giving stuff away for free if they lose a lot of their revenue generated from Google search.

If anyone has the money and ability to set up a massive server farm to take on Google's search engine worldwide, it's Apple.

ictiosapiens
May 22, 2010, 07:11 AM
Wow, and there I was thinking Apple was a hardware company...

needthephone
May 22, 2010, 07:15 AM
Google for me does not represent anything real. They have got lucky at search and seem to be just randomly trying different ideas and some they win some they loose. It just seems shonky. God help us if apple goes as they have all the real ideas, google seem like a spoilt kid jealous of their good looking. Popular former freind. Google blahhhh.

ValSalva
May 22, 2010, 07:19 AM
So why doesn't Apple enter the search engine market? Microsoft has. Judging by Google's market capitalization and income it's an extremely lucrative market.

I can't imagine Google continuing to enter all these other markets and outcompeting everyone by giving stuff away for free if they lose a lot of their revenue generated from Google search.

If anyone has the money and ability to set up a massive server farm to take on Google's search engine worldwide, it's Apple.

If I had to guess why Apple is not entering the search market it would be because Google has such a huge lead.

Look at Bing/Yahoo. They've been in this business for longer than Google but are inferior. Assuming Apple could do a better job it would still take years. And in those years Apple would be unfavorably compared to Google and thus the Apple brand would take a beating. Steve does not want that.

AlmostThere
May 22, 2010, 07:22 AM
So why doesn't Apple enter the search engine market? Microsoft has. Judging by Google's market capitalization and income it's an extremely lucrative market.

I can't imagine Google continuing to enter all these other markets and outcompeting everyone by giving stuff away for free if they lose a lot of their revenue generated from Google search.

If anyone has the money and ability to set up a massive server farm to take on Google's search engine worldwide, it's Apple.

Because Google are about the only people good enough to make money out of search and the engineering skills to do search well lie a long way from Apple's core competencies. Apple generally aren't a "me too" company in fields that are unfamiliar to them.

MS have chucked plenty of resources that way and made little progress.

Real threats to Google come from the likes of Facebook, who are changing the shape of the network (internet) itself from content to user centric ... which makes me find all the tin-foil hat wearers ranting about Google and personal data risks and privacy all the more laughable. Maybe someone will come along and selectively quote Schmidt in a few minutes...

ValSalva
May 22, 2010, 07:24 AM
Because Google are about the only people good enough to make money out of search and the engineering skills to do search well lie a long way from Apple's core competencies. Apple generally aren't a "me too" company in fields that are unfamiliar to them.

MS have chucked plenty of resources that way and made little progress.

Real threats to Google come from the likes of Facebook, who are changing the shape of the network (internet) itself from content to user centric ... which makes me find all the tin-foil hat wearers ranting about Google and personal data risks and privacy all the more laughable. Maybe someone will come along and selectively quote Schmidt in a few minutes...

"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

There. Now there's no more suspense.

Thex1138
May 22, 2010, 07:34 AM
Here's that Android keynote: http://bit.ly/bLEF8t

A smug amature.

AlmostThere
May 22, 2010, 07:40 AM
Google for me does not represent anything real.

I sympathise to a certain extent, Google's value is not always obvious. What Google do is connect questions with answers and they do this really well. Their advertising is fundamentally a matching process between someone looking for a product and someone selling a product, like a dating site but with "stuff" :-)

Google (principally*) provide the index - organising the world's information, as they would say. There is no shortage of information, the challenge people face is in finding the *right* information.

Example - if you wanted some music to list to 200 years ago, you would have had to commission a composer and find a musician to play it. 100 years ago you might be able to get access to a gramophone (phonograph), 50 years ago home record players and stores were fairly common, 10 years ago supermarkets and online stores were selling discount CDs, today anyone can put almost any music on the internet.

There is simply more music now than anyone could possibly ever listen to. The same is true for books, websites, shops, places in the world, more information than anyone can reasonably evaluate. Google provide a means of managing that overload. The limitation is not in finding something to read / watch / listen to but in selecting the one of the millions of alternative that is right for you.

*I say principally, because information retrieval is not just a matching process but that goes hand-in-hand with information accessibility, ease of exploration and suggestion or recommendation.

Thex1138
May 22, 2010, 07:42 AM
A smug amature.

Very funn this keynote... Mister Flash talks about work on areas SJ said were clearly lacking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYXSOaC1xv8)...

Tesseract
May 22, 2010, 07:44 AM
Wait wait wait.... Google is ragging on Apple for being "The Man?" Oh... the irony (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/8a23b394-5fab-11df-a670-00144feab49a.html)

Lets see... Apple is taking unbelievable amounts of heat for not providing an "open" device.... which they created and fully own.
And Google is behaving very much like Big Brother... going far into the bounds of other people's property and privacy...

Now who is "The Man?" again?

cwkoller5
May 22, 2010, 07:45 AM
Say what you will about Apple, but they've got a focus that allows them to execute a new idea better than nearly any other company. Watching the Google keynotes, it seemed everything they did was a reaction to Apple. Just because you paste "open" on top of all you do, doesn't make it any different than what Microsoft has been accused of doing, and that's shadowing Apple.

Maybe it's because Microsoft has lost its roar that Google is no longer targeting Redmond. But it would be better if Google could set a vision for its products and users, rather than scattering nifty technologies in a million different directions and using Apple as its main punching bag.

Seriously, what has Apple done to Google to deserve being treated like the evil empire?

AlmostThere
May 22, 2010, 07:45 AM
"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

There. Now there's no more suspense.

"If you really need that kind of privacy, the reality is that search engines -- including Google -- do retain this information for some time and it's important, for example, that we are all subject in the United States to the Patriot Act and it is possible that all that information could be made available to the authorities."

CEO in honest "the internet is not the anonymous place you think it is" shocker. When will this awful man stop trying to tell people the truth :eek: :p

... I think I even saw someone upthread saying they were convincing friends to move from Google to Yahoo :facepalm:

thecartoonguy
May 22, 2010, 07:47 AM
did apple celebrate Pac-Man turning 30 on their front page? no. that's yet another reason why google is way more awesome than apple.

... also, you can actually play that google pac man logo (http://www.google.ca/)! (just wait for it to load)

I have to admit that was a really good idea. It brought back some great memories of going into that dark arcade hearing the confusing sounds of many machines at once. Dropping hard earned quarters just trying to get a bit further along. Great times. :D

rdowns
May 22, 2010, 07:47 AM
I miss the Microsoft vs. Apple battles. That was when Apple still took computers seriously. Now it feels like they've conceded that market to Microsoft. Apple seems to think mobile is the only future.


Yeah, Macs are selling in record numbers for the past dozen or so quarters but Apple has conceded the market. :rolleyes:

Cydiaisaweseom
May 22, 2010, 07:51 AM
Google needs to stop going against Apple, Google and Apple were great friends till Apple sued HTC, and now it seems like there being friends with Microsoft

rdowns
May 22, 2010, 07:52 AM
Wake up people. You need to do your part and crush Google, aka The Evil Empire. I've worked up a list of things you can say to counter the Android FUD. Start today, please. Pretty please. With sugar on top.


* Why do you hate Apple so much? You seem really defensive, and angry. You seem to be taking this all so personally. You need to let go of your ego. Everything is not all about you.

* Apps. There are way more apps on iPhone OS. This will never change. Whatever the world looks like right now, that’s how it will be forever. Android will never catch up.

* Power users versus regular folks. Fair enough, you’re a super techie and can handle Android. Apple is designed for regular people who don’t want to worry about technology. By adopting Android, and helping Google succeed, you are hurting the regular folks who want to use Apple. Somehow.

* Vaporware. Android 2.2, aka Froyo, does not even exist yet. Unlike iPhone OS 4.0, which has already been demonstrated in public.

* Multitasking. You don’t need it. It’s a total red herring. When was the last time you did more than one thing on a phone? Also: Apple will have multitasking soon, so the point is moot.

* Music. You realize that playing music is one of the most important things a phone must be able to do, right? Well, Apple invented this thing called iTunes. Have you heard of it?

* Fragmentation. I’m trying to remember, how many versions of Android are there? Like sixty? And each one has a different user interface, and they’re always updating and changing and you have to go look up to see if your phone will run the new OS and it’s just so confusing and you’ll be tearing your hair out. With Apple, just one system. Simple. Ahhh.

* Google is big and evil and wants to steal all your personal information. Apple is all about freedom. And magical, childlike wonder.

* Flash. Apple won’t support it, Google will. Guess what? Flash drains your battery, and makes your phone so hot that it will set your hands on fire. So, yeah. You’re welcome.

* Porn. Did you know that Android was created by Google to help porn merchants sell dirty filthy porn on mobile phones so that porn-loving perverts could look at their smutty porn 24 hours a day and probably molest your kids?

* AT&T actually much better than Verizon. Faster 3G. Talk and surf Web at same time. As for dropped calls, all I can tell you is it has never happened to me or anyone I know, and the media has blown that issue way out of proportion.

* Browser. Forget the benchmarks that Google provides and just trust your own eyes. Safari is the fastest browser in the market. It’s 5-10x faster than any other browser.

* Ads. Ours are made by Apple. Theirs are not. Enough said.

* Spyware. You won’t get it on Apple. Android is crawling with it. Also, viruses. You’ll get viruses just by turning on your phone. If you’re on your home network, the virus could jump from your phone to every device on your network, even your WiFi router, and you will never get it out. The virus will spy on you and take pictures of you as you’re working and post those pictures on Facebook along with your credit card numbers, Social Security numbers, and a list of everything you’ve ever bought online. So, good luck with that.

For the humor impaired. (http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/05/if-someone-mentions-android-make-sure-you-go-totally-nuts.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheSecretDiaryOfSteveJobs+%28The+Secret+Diary+of+Steve+Jobs%29)

weev
May 22, 2010, 07:55 AM
I'm a huge Apple nut (natch) and have been a loyal iPhone user for 3 years but what Google is showing with Android is clicking with me. A lot of it just kind of makes sense. Stuff I've been thinking about for a long time now. I just finished watching their Android demo keynote from I/O and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Their Android Intent API stuff is what I've been dreaming of for a while and really severs the physical connection between computer and mobile. Send directions to your phone with one click of your computer's browser. Send an app the same way. Heck, make your entire iTunes library available for streaming! Kind of eliminates the need for a 64GB device.

You can stream your entire iTunes to your stereo with the iPhone as a control point (I use Remote).

What is the Google (or third-party) product that we must just so have, or dream of..?

I just don't grok your fantasy.

macsmurf
May 22, 2010, 08:04 AM
Say what you will about Apple, but they've got a focus that allows them to execute a new idea better than nearly any other company. Watching the Google keynotes, it seemed everything they did was a reaction to Apple. Just because you paste "open" on top of all you do, doesn't make it any different than what Microsoft has been accused of doing, and that's shadowing Apple.

What open means in this situation is that Apple (or any other company) can copy Android OS for free, make changes to it they don't have to share, and put their own GUI on top that they also don't have to share.

You know, just like when Apple copied FreeBSD to make OS X. :)

elppa
May 22, 2010, 08:04 AM
Ahhh, so the secret to Apple's success is that they don't "give a damn" about their customers!
Apple sells directly to customers and lives and dies by their customers. In Apple's world customers are preserving user experience is more important than developers. Hence some of the app store conflicts.

Microsoft => Sells to businesses and OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers)
Google => Sells to Advertisers (mostly) and Businesses (Google Apps)
Apple => Sells to end users

Google already caught up Apple: more Androids are sold each day than Iphones.
In North America. Although I imagine a buy iPhone, get iPhone free offer would fix it.

If there hadn't been competition, we probably wouldn't have got as far as cut and paste yet with the iPhone.
Or be able to see how bad the implementation on the other platforms actually is.

ValSalva
May 22, 2010, 08:06 AM
Yeah, Macs are selling in record numbers for the past dozen or so quarters but Apple has conceded the market. :rolleyes:

No Mac app awards at this year's WWDC. No update to the MacBook Air. No update to the Mac Pro. Underwhelming update of the MacBook Pro. Unlikely that there will be OS X 10.7 news at WWDC in June.

I'd love to be proven wrong but it doesn't appear that Mac and OS X are that much of a priority in Cupertino right now.

elppa
May 22, 2010, 08:08 AM
Two things that irk me and I find quite curious:

[1] Open v Closed. The irony is that Chrome OS, Chrome and this new Google TV (which uses Chrome) are all built on the open source Webkit project, which of course came out of Cupertino.* Apple isn't adverse to open, which is why large parts of their OS are open including the recent Snow Leopard technologies OpenCL (duh!) and libdispatch (Grand Central).

[2] Google's got a lot of people convinced Android has is overtaking the iPhone in share (as in it's only a matter of time before the results we see in the US being extrapolated to the rest of the world). This just plain false. In one territory, the USA, where Verizon is encouraging it's employees to push Android, offering 2 for 1 deals Android has passed iPhone.

* I know this itself was based on KHTML, but you're not telling me KHTML would be where Webkit is today without Apple's resources?

What open means in this situation is that Apple (or any other company) can copy Android OS for free, make changes to it they don't have to share, and put their own GUI on top that they also don't have to share.

You know, just like when Apple copied FreeBSD to make OS X. :)

NeXTSTEP 1.0 => September 18, 1989
Free BSD 1.0 => July, 1994

weev
May 22, 2010, 08:13 AM
No Mac app awards at this year's WWDC. No update to the MacBook Air. No update to the Mac Pro. Underwhelming update of the MacBook Pro. Unlikely that there will be OS X 10.7 news at WWDC in June.

I'd love to be proven wrong but it doesn't appear that Mac and OS X are that much of a priority in Cupertino right now.

Whose waiting for an iPod update, eh? I think you have seen the sun through the clouds, ValSalva.

There is a new gold mine but we are not invited.

What is up, are they calling time on static input devises.. ? Is there an implant I can get, cause I really just don't want to be an tawdy adopter, again!

appleseed76
May 22, 2010, 08:16 AM
When Google alludes to Apple being like Big Brother, are they referring to their closed system approach, or their success in taking over certain markets? Apple really isn't an underdog by any means, but neither is Google. It's kind of like calling the kettle black. And why do people keep referencing a 26-year-old commercial, as if Apple is the same company it was over 3 decades ago. Move on people, Apple has changed. They've been changing, like any successful company should. That's how you keep up, for better or worse.

If Google and Apple had teamed up any more than they already have then people would say that Google was riding the coattails of Apple, just like Sony did to Nintendo back in the day. Perhaps a similar breakdown occurred when Apple got wind if Google's plans to move into their markets.

charlituna
May 22, 2010, 08:16 AM
apple entered the mobile business, google can enter whatever business they like too...

While this is true, there is an issue that could bite Google in their butts.

Their motives.

Apple has always done and not done by three basic rules
1. What is the best fit for our intended audience, particularly the majority audience
2. What can we do better than has been done before
3. Can we, at this time, do X right with minimal issue for our audience

So no blu-ray because they felt it wasn't needed by the majority audience (ie, the common user v the geeks who will gripe but still get Toast and an external to burn those disks and pay on their 50" tvs)
No multitasking on the iphone because it couldn't be done well until now. Same for no 3rd party apps on day one, etc
No behind the scenes hot switching of the dual graphics cards right away because it couldn't be done 'right' until now
and so on

Google on the other hand seems to all about 'what is Apple doing?'
in a few cases, yes they may have done something better, but mostly they look like the younger brother of the pair and a very whining one at that. and in their race to one up Apple on everything they could bite off way more than they can chew

Chuushajou
May 22, 2010, 08:20 AM
If Jobs enables wireless syncing in iPhone OS, I really couldn't be any more happier. This is something I've wanted from day one, and I shouldn't have to pay $10 on Cydia to get this.

macsmurf
May 22, 2010, 08:22 AM
NeXTSTEP 1.0 => September 18, 1989
Free BSD 1.0 => July, 1994

What is your point? It is a well known fact that Apple copied large parts of the FreeBSD codebase and put it in OS X.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. In fact, it's one of the reasons I use OS X. The primary point was to explain that "open" wasn't just a word Google picked out but that it has actual meaning. I admit I was being facetious with regards to the "who's copying who", but that's just because it's pointless to take the discussion seriously.

Of course, that might be true of any discussion on MacRumors.

androiphone
May 22, 2010, 08:29 AM
phew it's a damn good job that android supports HTML5 h.264, WebM/VP8, AND flash cause TBH I (like 90% of the people who watch online video) dont give a damn which is best/is going to win out, I just want to be able to WATCH THE VIDEO ON THE SITE, when I want, without the damn 'cannot display content' because of the narrowmindedness of 'no we want this to win so we will not ever never support the others, if it causes hardship for the customers the screw them' while throwing their toys out of the pram

peace out :cool:

AtHomeBoy_2000
May 22, 2010, 08:33 AM
I vote google

lazyrighteye
May 22, 2010, 08:35 AM
Google is EXACTLY what Mac and Apple product users should LOVE!

I want Google to battle Apple fiercely on all fronts.

Competition will force Apple to actually consider its users. A Google Chrome OS and Android could force Apple to continually update its products to be not slight improvements over the former models but rather products that actually compete with Google's at every step. Frequent updates with better components that provide substantial updates.

I hope Google truly battles Apple on every product Apple sells. I don't care whether it's MP3 players, routers, displays, smartphone OS, mobile computers, professional computers, tablets, and etc. I want Google to truly go for it and make Apple give a damn about its customers by forcing Apple to provide better products in comparison with Google. Chrome OS could really be the start of something big and benefit all of us Mac users more than OS X could benefit us.

I look forward to this new Google gunning for Apple at every step of the way.

An emphatic +1.
I was coming here to post very similar sentiment.
Thanks.

This will only make Apple and their products better.
I very much welcome the challenge from Google.
Now we'll really find out what Apple's made of.
This should be fun.

macsmurf
May 22, 2010, 08:35 AM
If Flash is allowed on the iPhone, the terrorists win. :D

musiciscool
May 22, 2010, 08:37 AM
Google is calling Apple Big Brother?! Are you kidding me?! That's like Beijing accusing the U.S. of human rights abuses as they harvest organs from political dissidents. Google is the most Big Brother entity on the planet! All that's missing is the Google chip, but with their cell phone OS give-aways, they are on their way to tracking our every move and speech.

nanotlj
May 22, 2010, 08:40 AM
while it is sad to see apple and google's hostile relationship, I also would like to see apple competes with google head to head. In business, no friends forever; no enemies forever either. Remember google pays apple 100 million a year to carry its search engine.

chaosconan
May 22, 2010, 08:41 AM
How to make Apple TV even better!

Provide 4 types of contents.

1. Rent Movies and TV Shows (already there)
2. Buy Movies and TV Shows (already there)
3. Rent Movies and TV Shows with iAd at a reduced price (maybe 50% to 75%)
4. Watch TV with iAd for free (Like they do it on Televisions and hulu).

:)

tigres
May 22, 2010, 08:42 AM
Google wants your DNA. Those who play, sign over their personal nda's.

When we all wonder in the future how googles intel became bigger than our own governments; remember these diversions- or deserts.

Open your minds people. Try to see the forest through the trees.

Alith
May 22, 2010, 08:43 AM
When they are done raging at each other can we please get Chrome bookmark syncing in MobileMe?

Ta. :D

rococoloco
May 22, 2010, 08:46 AM
Two things that irk me and I find quite curious:

[1] Open v Closed. The irony is that Chrome OS, Chrome and this new Google TV (which uses Chrome) are all built on the open source Webkit project, which of course came out of Cupertino.* Apple isn't adverse to open, which is why large parts of their OS are open including the recent Snow Leopard technologies OpenCL (duh!) and libdispatch (Grand Central).

* I know this itself was based on KHTML, but you're not telling me KHTML would be where Webkit is today without Apple's resources?

Everything came from something,
Apple is very adverse to open, Apple only co-operates/flirts with open when it has something to gain, as opposed to actually open advocates for whom open means for everyone, all the time, not when some oligarchical corporation (here's looking at you Steve) decide.
Some may see Googles open-sourcing of VP8 with suspicion as to their motives and a possible middle-finger to Apple and it's fast tracking H.264.

But there have been many petitions since Google bought On2 to do so, from open-source advocates and Linux users.

It's not a feud, it's not unprecedented, not all of Googles actions are reactionary.

doctor-don
May 22, 2010, 08:49 AM
The LAST place I want to download music to is my phone.

Animosity? It's simply business competition.

Google cannot succeed when its customers realize how much of their privacy will be given up to Google.

Bonte
May 22, 2010, 08:55 AM
What open means in this situation is that Apple (or any other company) can copy Android OS for free, make changes to it they don't have to share, and put their own GUI on top that they also don't have to share.

You know, just like when Apple copied FreeBSD to make OS X. :)

And that is exactly what all the handset-makers will do, slap there own GUI on it and take control of the app-store. 'Open' will splinter the market and make it useless, Google will need to make it closed again and force the hardware and features in the same direction.
Won't be easy because providers and handset-makers don't want to be the dumb link in the chain, they want control over features and software.

OrangeSVTguy
May 22, 2010, 08:55 AM
"I agree that no single company can create all the hardware and software. Openness is central because it's the foundation of choice." - Steve Ballmer

I disagree. This is basically why Apple "Just Works" They monitor their hardware and software to work seamlessly with one another. That's like shipping an Erector set without the instructions. Yeah you can build whatever you want but in the end there will be many left over pieces....

nrodriguez55
May 22, 2010, 08:57 AM
Honestly, why the hell is google all of a sudden an enemy of Apple?

It's like they have nothing else to do other than to try and counter Apple at every turn, operating systems, phones, company acquisitions and the like.

Google has no business entering any other business other than the one that made them their fortune.

Then they have the nerve to compare Apple to Big Brother...Google does not see that they, in fact, are ones with the Big Brother complex.

They don't want competition, they want to be top dog.

I can't wait until Google's sudden rash of stupidity comes back to bite them in the ass.

I no longer use google as a search engine, by the way.. I wont support a company that has a superiority complex and wages wars on other successful companies just because they want to capitalize on their successes.
Hopefully people will soon see Google for what it is and stop supporting them.



Googles track record so far:
- a very successful search engine
- a failed operating system
- a failed phone operating system
- a failed phone designed to compete with the iPhone ( nexus one)







What else can Google suck at? I'm sure we will see...

Stick to what you know Google. Leave Apple and the rest of us alone

kenypowa
May 22, 2010, 09:01 AM
Seriously, what has Apple done to Google to deserve being treated like the evil empire?

Rejecting the insanely useful Google Voice App?



Googles track record so far:
- a very successful search engine
- a failed operating system
- a failed phone operating system
- a failed phone designed to compete with the iPhone ( nexus one)



LOL. A failed phone OS. Where have you been this year?

elppa
May 22, 2010, 09:09 AM
What is your point?
Because you made it sound like it was exclusively copied. I'd say that Mac OS X owes as much to it's NeXTSTEP heritage as anything.

Apple is very adverse to open, Apple only co-operates/flirts with open when it has something to gain
This is how most companies operate and this was my point.

Is calling people "fanboy" (as you have me) not the same thing?

EDIT: AAh, it's not fanboy, it was "Android Kool Aid" drinker.
I believe the term now is “fandroid”. :p

CFreymarc
May 22, 2010, 09:15 AM
I think this is humorously retarded of Google.

However, this will be the best thing that happened to consumers, Android, and iPhone OS.

Without stiff competition, there isn't a need to out do.

The ball is in Apple's court.

Google has seen itself replacing Microsoft for the past five years. They now have most of their pieces on the board and Apple has become the competitor.

My guess is that Apple will launch a search engine that will try to blow Google out of the water. That "billion dollar data center" on North Carolina is not just going to be for email and MobileMe services.

My guess is that it will be called "iSearch" and may be the big announcement at WWDC instead of the next generation iPhone.

Compile 'em all
May 22, 2010, 09:17 AM
It is quite funny people thinking Android is more "open" than the iPhone. This blog by Jeff LaMarche pretty much sums up the reality of android and the illusion of being open.


Here's the reality of the Android situation now: if you buy an Android phone, it will most likely be locked down by your carrier, possibly also with some features disabled. Or, to use Tim Bray's term, the reality is that most Android phones that get bought are a "curated experience".

In some places, some carriers will sell unlocked phones, but for a great many people, if you want an open Android phone, you will be required to buy one from a carrier and jailbreak it, which is likely a violation of your subscriber agreement. If you don't jailbreak it, you may not get future Android updates. If you buy an Android phone and don't jailbreak it, you might spend the entire life of your phone using the Android version that shipped on it. Your vendor could even charge you a ridiculous monthly fee for the upgrade, something that at least Verizon has considered doing. Even if your carrier does provide updates for free and regularly, there will be a delay as the vendor and provider add all their customizations and restrictions on top of the official Android release.

For the vast majority of people who will buy Android phones, "open" is an illusion because now that Google has abandoned their direct sales model, Android firmly puts the final decision making power for the overall experience of the phone back into the hands of the traditional carrier/vendor relationship that ruled the space before the iPhone came out. Apple, unlike other phone vendors, is capable of going toe-to-toe with the carriers and is willing to do so to fight for a better user experience. That's why we don't have AT&T branding all over our iPhones. That's why we don't have the mandatory 15-second spiel before voicemail that Verizon users have to suffer through. Apple is at least an equal partner with the carriers who sell their phones. Most of the other phone vendors, to put it bluntly, are the carriers' bitches.

Does Android have some nice features that the iPhone doesn't? Absolutely. Is Android improving? No doubt about it and on a regular basis to boot. But, by putting the real power back in the hand of the carriers and their vendor partners, the user experience is never going to be as important in the decision making process as it is for the iPhone. Even if the Android team manages to make the overall experience better than the iPhone (which I consider unlikely, but possible), the carriers will almost certainly screw it up with their ham-handed customizations and restrictions.

If you're going to have a curated experience, isn't it better to at least have one where the curator is making their decisions primarily around the quality of your experience?

Unless Google resumes direct sales or puts licensing limitations on the carriers to prevent them from locking down Android phones, "open" will be just another empty marketing slogan.

OrangeSVTguy
May 22, 2010, 09:20 AM
Apple already has a good searching tool, Spotlight. Imagine Apple indexing the entire web instead of just your hard drive. Guess Apple could call it SearchLight :) but iSearch sounds cool too :p

chaynes
May 22, 2010, 09:27 AM
Whatever "open" means to some, it CAN mean a leveled playing field of medocrity to us all. That's the way Google and Microsoft play it. If people won't learn the difference, why make it better than they obviously need it to be. Apple, on the other hand, does things to make the computing experience better, teaching me what it can be like, making it work.

I realize that gaming - Facebook - Twitter and the uses of that ilk are important to the industry, those of us who need computers to be productive, however, shudder at the idea of an entity like Google taking over much. They've been first at a couple of things, things that are done just as well on other fronts, BTW. But, by and large, mediocre output across the board.

I would always opt for a system I can buy into that works every day for me. I don't think about the OS, or, sometimes, the price. Reliability, ease of use, those are the things I need. I'm signing off Google because of attitude and track record. Gotta go to work...

alexk82
May 22, 2010, 09:29 AM
it was bound to happen as google looks to find a way to make more money

RT2020
May 22, 2010, 09:29 AM
Apple already has a good searching tool, Spotlight. Imagine Apple indexing the entire web instead of just your hard drive. Guess Apple could call it SearchLight :) but iSearch sounds cool too :p

...all search engines already index the web :D

Seriously, this is great news. It will spur innovation. I just wish Apple also give some attention to innovating in their computer line and upgrading OSX. I just can't get excited about the latest iFad.

HLdan
May 22, 2010, 09:32 AM
This crap gets annoying after a while, why do all these companies go after "APPLE"? Why is the news always about some company making an Apple Product Killer? Why isn't Google going after HP or DELL or Sony or Microsoft's ideas? You never hear Apple announcing that they are creating a Google Killer or an HP killer or a DELL killer, Apple just makes a great product, and for a company that gets laughed at for having such small market share with their products, just about every company seems to be going after what Apple's doing. Hmph. :rolleyes:

mac ath
May 22, 2010, 09:33 AM
Just this last week I decided to un-Google my online life. The creepy, sinister, and downright cheesy nature of Google just gave me the heeby-jeebies once too often.

Chrome browser is fast and warm, but Apple isn't mining my data when I use Safari.

Picasa was easy to navigate, but iPhoto is prettier.

Google Documents was convenient, but so incredibly ugly and impossible to format or convert properly.

Gmail was fine, but for the first time this week I started using Apple's MailApp (after using Hotmail for ten years and Gmail for the last few), and suddenly I have no idea how I've put up with web mail for so long.

Google is choking the internet with ugly blighted ads, but Apple's iAd plan of going with quality over quantity gets my vote.

There are people on this thread calling for Apple to "go head-to-head" with Google, but that's not where it's at. It's better to have 10% market share (either in hardware, software, or advertising) and have huge profits than it is to be a blight on the world like Google is becoming, and Microsoft has been, despite their own profits.

I'll give Microsoft credit for one thing, though. They've always been about dominating markets for the purpose of making money. I don't like that approach, but I can respect it. Google's aim is to own every single last piece of your life so they can make money. I do not respect that. It's gross and anti-human.

Somehow Google has made me see Microsoft as a corporation with integrity. Never in my wildest dreams did I see that coming. Nice job, Google. Thanks. You accomplished something, anyway.

Apple should just keep on doing what it's been doing: creating a walled garden of useful, aesthetically-pleasing hardware and software products for people who recognize quality and will pay a premium for it.

I've been paying that premium since my first Macintosh Plus, and I'll keep paying it because I'll go with quality and integrity over crap and duplicity every time.

+100

deputy_doofy
May 22, 2010, 09:39 AM
Ahhhh. I'll stay in my walled-garden.

Complaining about "lack of openness" and app store scrutiny of submissions is like living in a neighborhood that is scrutinizing why they need a check-cashing store in the neighborhood. Why not just be a legitimate bank because, guess what, if your neighborhood has check cashing stores at every other corner, it's probably got a nice crime rate to go with it. No thanks!

Neighborhood metaphors, ftw. :p

mantan
May 22, 2010, 09:53 AM
If you truly question the impact of competition.....compare this year's iPhone update to last years.

If there was no significant competition the newest iPhone would be 'fluff the pillows' update with trivial features like a compass touted as innovation.

Instead the bar has been raised by products like the Evo to push functionality with each new iPhone release.

Too many people up here want to grab their pom poms for Apple like it's personal to them. Frankly, as a consumer I want as much competition, innovation and choice as possible.

stubeeef
May 22, 2010, 09:54 AM
Not fond of either companies politics, but at least I can get android on the verizon network.
I think both companies are mentally ill-it is probably what drives their innovations, while I have only owned Apples since 1987-I will buy android on the next contract with verizon if iPhone is not there. If either company wants to make products to fit my lifestyle, then it needs to fit, AT&T doesn't fit. Google has tons of money so does Apple and Microsoft. If money was the sole driver of success the US school system would pump out more brilliant graduates.
The battle is good for everyone-will if you believe in capitalism and competition.

gigidey
May 22, 2010, 09:54 AM
The LAST place I want to download music to is my phone.

Animosity? It's simply business competition.

Google cannot succeed when its customers realize how much of their privacy will be given up to Google.

I actually think most people either don't know about their information being given away, or aren't concerned. Websites like Facebook can still become massively popular with even lighter ammounts of privacy than Google.

tom5304
May 22, 2010, 10:06 AM
I really don't care who makes the best phone; I just want the f-ckung monthly service charges to GO DOWN and NOT INCREASE...EVER.

I really don't know about you guys, but I'm starting to scratch my head thinking why the hell does owning a cell phone costs $1400/year?????

/rant

Thank you! I just cannot justify spending that kind of money on a smart phone, and I don't see that I ever will. I'll have to make do with an iPod Touch, because I'm just not going to pay $1,400 a year for a little toy, no matter how cool and fun it is.

E.Lizardo
May 22, 2010, 10:08 AM
So the choice is clear.

Google creates and markets products at low or no cost in order to harvest my personal information and put ads in front of me.

Apple creates and markets products to sell,with no or minimal data harvesting involved.

I'm with Apple.Any insignificant quibbles about horrible"walled gardens"pale in comparison to the thick file Google would like to keep on me.

JAT
May 22, 2010, 10:10 AM
Do ya think this would have happened IF the iPhone was NOT ALL LOCKED UP WITH AT$T???

I think NOT

You really don't understand, do you? Contracts are enforceable. It doesn't matter what YOU think the market should be, serious companies must obey their contracts. Apple would never have been able to sell the iPhone if it weren't for the exclusivity contract, that was ATT's benefit side of the deal. And yes, both companies have to get something in a contract, or they would never sign it. If it was not locked up with ATT for a period of time, it would not exist at all, probably neither would its touchscreen competitors, not yet.

Grow up.

macbookpro13
May 22, 2010, 10:12 AM
The more competition the better it is for consumers. I can't believe people are arguing against this. The amount of personal attachment to Apple being displayed in this thread is sickening.

thetexan
May 22, 2010, 10:14 AM
I actually think most people either don't know about their information being given away, or aren't concerned. Websites like Facebook can still become massively popular with even lighter ammounts of privacy than Google.

That's basically it.

I haven't given a dime to Google over the years, except for their cut of the applications I purchased on Android. For free I've enjoyed the best webmail service on the internet, complete with contact and calendar syncing. I've enjoyed a great photo syncing website, document storage area with lots of space for free, blog hosting, and access to some books. Oh, I've also enjoyed amazing navigation for free both on and off my phone. Google can be your cloud, and is 1000x more capable than MobileME without the $100 per year fee. I frankly don't even notice the ads anymore on Google, and I couldn't care less that my keywords are giving advertisers aggregate information about how their ads appear.

Even the strongest Apple fanboy should be glad Google is around. Without Android and Palm I can almost guarantee you that multitasking, even the lame way it's going to be done in 4.x, wouldn't be a feature. Competition is a great thing as it keeps people on their toes.

Google isn't going to kill Apple, nobody can kill Apple. Hell, Apple has yet to kill anyone. All the smartphone players are still around that were there when the iPhone was released.

KnightWRX
May 22, 2010, 10:20 AM
Wake up people. You need to do your part and crush Google, aka The Evil Empire. I've worked up a list of things you can say to counter the Android FUD. Start today, please. Pretty please. With sugar on top.

Why do you hate Google so much? You seem really defensive, and angry. You seem to be taking this all so personally. You need to let go of your ego. Everything is not all about you.

No Mac app awards at this year's WWDC. No update to the MacBook Air. No update to the Mac Pro. Underwhelming update of the MacBook Pro. Unlikely that there will be OS X 10.7 news at WWDC in June.

I'd love to be proven wrong but it doesn't appear that Mac and OS X are that much of a priority in Cupertino right now.

Sadly, this is the truth. Macs are taking a beating and the beating is coming from Apple. Sure they still sell well, but it seems in recent times, this is mostly due to the aura around Macs, not any actual meat on the bone. OS X is still great and I'd still buy one of the new 15" MBPs if I had the dough, but the update was late, very late (one of the reasons I don't have the cash, my money went on something other than a computer).

deputy_doofy
May 22, 2010, 10:21 AM
I'm all for competition. I'm not sure I like Google's tactics, but it's starting to feel like the old days, when there more than just 2 choices (Mac or Win).

Apple
Atari
Commodore (64, Amiga, etc)
IBM
Tandy

I'm sure I'm missing much, but you get the idea.

KnightWRX
May 22, 2010, 10:31 AM
This crap gets annoying after a while, why do all these companies go after "APPLE"? Why is the news always about some company making an Apple Product Killer?

Because this is a Mac blog and is very partisan to Apple, so all the news posted here is tainted with some twist to make it seem like Apple is more important than they really are.

The fact is, and ChazUK pointed it out first, none of these Google moves seem to be a "Let's take on Apple" move. Android was bought in 2005 way before the iPhone was announced to the public, Admob has been around forever, so iAds is more of a response to Google than Admob being a response to Apple, h.264 is being adopted and used everyday by Google, etc.. etc..

Some people here need to take it down a notch, not everything in life is about Apple and "There must be only one!" made for a good movie, but in the markets, I'd rather have competition than a monopoly controlling every segment. Microsoft already showed us how bad it is when 1 company controls the market.

Good thing that the sentiments posted on here are mostly garbage. I'll keep on using OS X on my Macbook to browse the web using Firefox so I can read my e-mail in Gmail, while listening to music ripped from my own CDs through iTunes. Competition is good.

ppnkg
May 22, 2010, 10:31 AM
competition is about profits, not about products, and as things stand at the moment I see nothing good coming out of it for me as the end user.

Anyways as long as I can do the things I can do better with apple's machines and OS, I'm staying in apples camp...

MrCrowbar
May 22, 2010, 10:38 AM
Err... h.264 isn't "made" by Apple. Quicktime is.

KnightWRX
May 22, 2010, 10:38 AM
competition is about profits, not about products, and as things stand at the moment I see nothing good coming out of it for me as the end user.

Shortsighted.

Profit comes from sales and sales come from offering something that people want to buy. Competition is very much about the products, making them better and more attractive to the end user, which in the end gets a lot of good out of it.

Err... h.264 isn't "made" by Apple. Quicktime is.

Depending on how you look at it, Quicktime is not a video codec either. Apple isn't in the video codec business at all. Quicktime is either a software to playback media or a container format (.mov or .mp4). Apple used to use Sorenson Video from their codec (starting with Quicktime 3) and now use H.264.

That part of the article is a big stretch. There is no link to Apple on the VP8 front.

shakenmartini
May 22, 2010, 10:40 AM
I think it's just that Google is the hot new tech company now and they are feeling very full of themselves, much like Microsoft in the 90's. I think the danger for them is getting too arrogant and losing focus of making great products.

The problem is google won't finish anything.

I love the concept of google docs, but there are still major bugs, lack of polish and major missing features.

Even gmail is very unfinished. It seems like every couple of months google fiddles with gmail. New features are nice, but features seems to come, go and be rearranged.

Google also starts and stops and merges services constantly. You can never count on google to provide any service long term. Unless google has had a service aroma for a long time it is not worth investing I , since it can be randomly canceled at anytime.

Their only service that is really finished is their search and ad words business.

Android is a total mess IMHO. You are not to expect updates unless you want to hack your own ROM.

Until google focuses on something and finishes it, they will not put apple out of business.

macsmurf
May 22, 2010, 10:44 AM
And that is exactly what all the handset-makers will do, slap there own GUI on it and take control of the app-store. 'Open' will splinter the market and make it useless, Google will need to make it closed again and force the hardware and features in the same direction.
Won't be easy because providers and handset-makers don't want to be the dumb link in the chain, they want control over features and software.

Well, you can't have it both ways. When you create an open system some companies will try to take control on their own platforms. Apple took BSD (and I'll be sure to mention NextStep as well) slapped their own GUI on it and the end product is an excellent OS. How is this bad?

HTC might do the same thing. They might even start their own app store that is not compatible with the Android Market. However, that might make users stop buying their products. So maybe they won't.

Anuba
May 22, 2010, 10:50 AM
Ugh... sorry Google, but I'm never going to put all my eggs in one basket.
I like you as a third party, providing search and map services, and maybe mail, but that's where I draw the line.

Also, while "google" is an OK brand name for search and map services for obvious reasons, it's a terrible name to put on hardware. It's a verb. What's a "google" in noun form? A puddle of goo? And look at your f***in' logo. Just look at it. It looks like a box of Duplo (=Lego for toddlers) humped a serif font and had bastard offspring in the form of a deformed beachball. If we're gonna have to put up with one logo plastered on everything in sight, can it please not be yours?

I never believed Microsoft would become the evil empire that takes over the world, and they never did. People know when enough is enough. But Google is really poised to become Big Brother. They control search, advertising and 90% of the video streaming on the web, they have their street view cars roaming the world taking panorama pictures, and soon enough they will buy Facebook. Hello Skynet.

I never thought I'd say this, but can I have Bing in Safari please.

StoneJack
May 22, 2010, 10:59 AM
Ok, the giant advertising company, Google, which happens to have some snippets of code to promote its advertising, wants to know where you are, what you do,when are you at home, what you watch, whom do you call, what you write, whom you send, in order to feed you relentless stream of advertisements. The advertising corporation records and stores in giant servers information which breaches privacy, copyright laws and it lacks moral etiquette and decency. Why feed the monster? Email can be not only Gmail, search can be anything else, avoid Google maps, Google Docs and don't put your address in anything Google, because that's recorded and analyzed and then you are sent perfect ads. Right for you.

Google collecting personal WiFi data by mistake, http://www.politicalscandalnews.com/article/Google%20collecting%20personal%20WiFi%20data%20by%20mistake/?k=j83s12y12h94s27k02

Three Google executives - chief legal officer David Drummond, former Google Italy board member George De Los Reyes and global privacy counsel Peter Fleischer - were convicted by a Milan court in a lawsuit over violating the privacy of an Italian boy with autism
http://ecommerce-journal.com/node/27124

Google admits accessing home internet connections, sparks new privacy scandal
Monday, 17 May 2010 11:49 http://www.smartcompany.com.au/legal/20 ... andal.html

"One of the largest companies in the world, the market leader on the internet, simply disobeyed normal rules," the FT cited Schaar as saying. http://www.itpro.co.uk/623389/google-to ... fi-scandal

Google sparks new privacy scandal http://topnews.co.uk/24678-google-spark ... cy-scandal

Google is bigger than sovereign states? http://www.euronews.net/2010/02/26/goog ... vacy-laws/

Google cache raises copyright concerns, http://news.cnet.com/2100-1038_3-1024234.html

Case Study: How Google Hosts & Funds A Copyright-Infringing Web Site, http://searchengineland.com/case-study- ... site-32260

arn
May 22, 2010, 11:00 AM
Because this is a Mac blog and is very partisan to Apple, so all the news posted here is tainted with some twist to make it seem like Apple is more important than they really are.

The fact is, and ChazUK pointed it out first, none of these Google moves seem to be a "Let's take on Apple" move.

Sigh. There's no "reading into" required. Google was directly taking shots at Apple.

http://kara.allthingsd.com/files/2010/05/vic2-275x210.jpg
Slide shown during keynote referring to Apple.

“If we did not act, we faced a draconian future. Where one man, one company, one carrier was the future.”

– Google Vice-President of Engineering Vic Gundotra explains why the company made Android.

Whether or not it's true (since, as you point out that Google bought Android earlier), it's the way that Google is portraying it. So ya, it's a direct Google vs Apple mentality propogated by Google, not by this or any other blog.

arn

slffl
May 22, 2010, 11:09 AM
What I love is how the anti-Apple internet nerds are making Apple out to be big brother when IMO it's Google who is the next big brother.

old-school
May 22, 2010, 11:13 AM
After skim-reading a couple of pages of this thread, I've got to say I found most of the posts a bit pathetic.

I know there are Apple and Google fanboys out there, but the point is that we simply love what they do and how they do it. They are both businesses with their thoughts ALWAYS on the bottom line, and how they can capture more market share within taking too many risks.

Competition is always good. Who cares who brought out what first?

The company with the best product and service will sell the most. That is all we should be concerned about, and whoever steps up to the plate will win the customers.

angevil
May 22, 2010, 11:18 AM
To compete - making MobileMe free would be a great start from Apple.

+1

Actually, I was just thinking about that yesterday and was about to write the idea. And then while reading comments on this topic I have seen your post.

Apple should make MOBILEME FREE, at least a 500 MB package. That would be really nice and I would leave google for good.

Rocketman
May 22, 2010, 11:23 AM
The financial analysts often criticize Google for straying from their central mission, search, for initiatives that Googlers believe in but produce more expenses than revenues.

Since analysts are rational and would welcome a new revenue source, why would they object to the particular ones Google have embarked on?

Because they have lower scales of revenue and far lower actual or potential growth rates. Crack for stock pricing.

The Google me-too-Apple approach to their new business model is actually only an amusing sidebar. Steve is precisely right the only reason they attended board meetings was to gain access to their copy machine from the inside. That has got to be the source of an actual cause of action a jury would get behind. Apple, owner of 30% of Google as the penalty?

Rocketman

cite:
http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/05/21/1427245/Are-Googlers-Too-Smart-For-Their-Own-Good

calderone
May 22, 2010, 11:27 AM
Well, you can't have it both ways. When you create an open system some companies will try to take control on their own platforms. Apple took BSD (and I'll be sure to mention NextStep as well) slapped their own GUI on it and the end product is an excellent OS. How is this bad?

HTC might do the same thing. They might even start their own app store that is not compatible with the Android Market. However, that might make users stop buying their products. So maybe they won't.

That is a gross oversimplification of the BSD and OS X relationship.

HTC's Sense is really just a GUI (they do add in some new widgets). While many of the technologies on OS X are based on open source projects, Apple makes many enhancement and many of them go back to the open source community.

The problem with Android, for me, was the lack of updates. If I want 2.1, I have to wait for HTC to throw Sense in. Which meant I would have been waiting a ling time (in fact I did before I switched back to iPhone). So while Android advanced I was stuck in the past, sure I could have rooted and installed one of the unofficial ROMs but should I have to on this "open" platform?

cwwilson
May 22, 2010, 11:28 AM
Google is getting incredibly powerful and almost too big for their own good. But in a way, this would hopefully get Apple to up the ante. iPhone OS4 is a start but soon Google will be rolling Chrome OS for desktop and laptop computers and this Google TV will upend Apple TV by the looks of things. Apple is now more of a follower than an innovator. They've been playing catch up for a while now (sans iPad). I want to see more exciting things from Apple that will push the boundaries. Direct competition from Google might just put them in gear.

rdowns
May 22, 2010, 11:31 AM
Why do you hate Google so much? You seem really defensive, and angry. You seem to be taking this all so personally. You need to let go of your ego. Everything is not all about you.




Whoosh :rolleyes:

Darkroom
May 22, 2010, 11:34 AM
Two of those stories are about the Google home page. The other is a tech section item, one of many. Did you have a point?

my point was that it made international news. keep up.

Peace
May 22, 2010, 11:46 AM
Sigh. There's no "reading into" required. Google was directly taking shots at Apple.

http://kara.allthingsd.com/files/2010/05/vic2-275x210.jpg
Slide shown during keynote referring to Apple.



Whether or not it's true (since, as you point out that Google bought Android earlier), it's the way that Google is portraying it. So ya, it's a direct Google vs Apple mentality propogated by Google, not by this or any other blog.

arn

“If we did not act, we faced a draconian future. Where one man, one company, one carrier was the future.”

– Google Vice-President of Engineering Vic Gundotra explains why the company made Android.

Google says they had to do something to keep Apple from being the big brother of the internet.

The truth of the matter is Eric Schmidt has been wanting to be the big brother of EVERYTHING for a long,long time. The ONLY reason they want to "keep Apple from being big brother" is so GOOGLE can be big brother. And trust me. Google as big brother will mine all of your personal info,not care about your privacy and make as much money off you as they can without caring one bit.

And the Google lemmings show it perfectly. Witness the Pac-Man craze. While all you people were having all this fun playing Pac-Man on Google's home page they were gathering as much info from you as possible.

kingtj
May 22, 2010, 11:48 AM
The lack of updates or interest in improving the AppleTV for this long shows me Apple has little interest in that aspect of the market. Essentially, the product has been DONE for the last year or more, and they're just selling them to the hackers who want to mess around with them, and to a minority of people who buy a lot of video content via iTunes and are content just extending that content to show on their living room TV with the AppleTV box.

Even disregarding all the video format viewing limitations in its software, AppleTV doesn't even have enough OUTPUT jacks on it to be taken seriously!


When I first saw this article, it all clicked for me: Google is Apple's #1 competitor. iPhone OS4 better have more tricks up their sleeve, and Apple TV is DONE unless they move it from "hobby" status to "let's get our ass in gear" status. As a self avowed Apple fan-boy, I lust for Google TV!

Abyssgh0st
May 22, 2010, 11:53 AM
Still seems for the time being that Google is playing catch up

I agree. They differ from Apple in the fact that rather than innovating, they're trying to out do the existing king of industry.

jaw04005
May 22, 2010, 11:53 AM
Even disregarding all the video format viewing limitations in its software, AppleTV doesn't even have enough OUTPUT jacks on it to be taken seriously!

What? What other output jacks besides HDMI and Component would be needed on a set-top box?

Anuba
May 22, 2010, 11:58 AM
What I love is how the anti-Apple internet nerds are making Apple out to be big brother when IMO it's Google who is the next big brother.
You have to watch all these companies, it's not a question of picking one as Big Brother #1 and letting the others off the hook.

You're right, Google is more Big Brother-y than Apple, but why? Because Apple's isn't like that? No, but because of their relatively modest size and market share.

The Apple ecosystem is a walled garden, and they do use blatant lock-in strategies. Does Windows Media Player force you to buy music straight from Microsoft? No, WMP hooks you up with a bunch of third party stores. Does WMP force you to use a Zune? No, it will synchronize with pretty much anything with storage capacity. But iTunes blocks out everything that isn't an Apple iPod/iPhone/iPad and you can only buy apps and media content from Apple, and only content and apps approved by Apple.

They've pulled other stunts, like acquiring music software maker Emagic and then discontinuing the Windows version of Logic, forcing all Logic users with PCs to buy Macs or GTFO. But you know what? It's OK, because Apple's market share is fairly small. If Apple controlled over 50% of each of the markets they're in (computer hardware, OS, smartphones, web browsers, tablet devices, music sales, movie rentals, cloud mail/calendar etc), Big Brother alarms would be going off everywhere. The EU commission would slap them with so many lawsuits, Apple legal wouldn't even be able to read all the documents at the rate they keep coming in.

But for now, Apple is off the hook, so let's focus on Google while keeping half an eye on Microsoft for old times sake.

calderone
May 22, 2010, 12:00 PM
What? What other output jacks besides HDMI and Component would be needed on a set-top box?

S-Video! Composite! VGA! DisplayPort! BNC! Coax (any connector!)! Hmm, what else... Support for USB displays too!

DanielSw
May 22, 2010, 12:04 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/21/google-sets-its-sights-on-apple/)

. . . Apple's role, however, remains the same as always -- as a staunch proponent of vertical integration and a tightly controlled user experience. How tightly they control that experience, however, has been a point of contention amongst users and developers. Apple lost the previous round when it was against Microsoft, but Apple has also never had such a strong lead before.


Article Link: Google Sets Its Sights on Apple (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/21/google-sets-its-sights-on-apple/)

It doesn't matter that Apple "lost" against Microsoft. That's ancient history. Actually what Apple "lost" was the horde of ignorant lemmings represented in that famous 1984 Superbowl ad by the gray-clothed audience. That horde, of course, are all the remaining stupid Windoze users. Though many may take offense at my calling them stupid, "stupid" is not necessarily opposite in meaning to "intelligent", "articulate", "educated", "discerning", etc. "Stupid" simply means "not knowing" which in this case means not knowing the real qualities and benefits of the Apple ecosystem as it exists today.

We Apple zealots have known this all along. And I, for one, am very pleased to see so many of the inculcated horde waking up these days out of their respective Windoze stupors to the point of switching.

Over my 2+ decades as a happy Apple customer, there have been countless reasons which have verified and reinforced my real devotion to the company and its products.

I have Apple Care for a recent iMac, which warrantee covers my Time Capsule. It's been working well as our wireless router as well as its hard drive holding my Time Machine backup. A few days ago its indicator light which is normally a steady green started flashing yellow. In my experience, that normally means that internet access has been interrupted. However, our access was working. I tried re-booting the Capsule and got the steady green light, but later, it started blinking yellow again.

I called Apple tech support, and the tech had me open Airport Utility and took me through a few steps with it to learn that in this case the flashing yellow meant that my Time Capsule's hard drive was running low on free space. Once I clicked on "Ignore" the light returned to steady green. Perhaps this is all in the documentation, but the fact is that I got good Tech Support service for the cost of my Apple Care warranty, and the fact is that my equipment is running well.

These are just a couple benefits of the above-referenced "vertical integration and a tightly controlled user experience". This is what we Apple zealots enjoy and are happy to pay for and is the reason we remain zealots.

I also happen to be grateful for Apple's "closed" iPhone development environment which I know to be majorly responsible for the current desirability of Apple's iPhone OS products. It is my opinion that those who compulsively and irrationally protest "control" have been the respective sad effects of bad--essentially NO--control in their lives and are simply knee-jerkily reacting to any semblance of such. Too bad, because there is very little that is ACTUALLY bad with the Apple ecosystem.

Apple's recent rising major statistics speak far more loudly to me than any amount of ranting by the competition and say that Apple is indeed doing far more things right than wrong.

richman555
May 22, 2010, 12:09 PM
I think a few things are for certain...

Apple will most likely replace Google for Bing. Also as much as I love Youtube, it needs to be replaced as well, especially as an iPhone default.

Anuba
May 22, 2010, 12:22 PM
I think a few things are for certain...

Apple will most likely replace Google for Bing. Also as much as I love Youtube, it needs to be replaced as well, especially as an iPhone default.
Replace YouTube? Oooooh, now that's a tall order... that's like McDonalds replacing Coca-Cola with Mountain Dew, expecting customers to comply without reservations...

jaw04005
May 22, 2010, 12:23 PM
S-Video! Composite! VGA! BNC! Coax (any connector!)

LOL. And Apple’s “Internet set-top box” should have a VCR deck and DVD-ROM too!

DisplayPort? Maybe.
USB? Meh.

I don’t think output choices are a major problem on the Apple TV. The lack of 1080p, the dated and security risk-prone 10.4 OS base, the aging processor and the PATA interface are all much bigger factors IMO.

Apple needs to hire someone well respected from ABC or one of the other big networks to run their iTunes content division (if they want to be a video network, get someone in there who knows how to run one), build a new Apple TV based on “mobile OS X” (complete with an App Store) and the A4 processor and drop the price to $199.

Boom! And El Gato’s EyeTV should be their killer third-party launch application.

iPunk
May 22, 2010, 12:25 PM
Competition is good.

jimbobb24
May 22, 2010, 12:31 PM
Apple is probably the most aggressively innovative tech company on Earth, and Google is shaping up to be the least. A company that just sits around copying is not likely to succeed long...however MS has done pretty well that way.

The google of innovation with Gmail and brilliant search is just looking at what Apple is doing and copying. Google TV...hmm...looks as boring as Apple TV. Way to go.

Android is ok, but so far I like the iPhone OS better. Android is "free" and open. Well, I like Game consoles and I like App consoles. I think they are awesome. I think the multi-tasking feature coming to iPhone OS is lame and I hope I can turn it off (except for being able to run Pandora...the little app switcher having to close Apps - totally a step backward).

H.264 is Apple backed, but not Apples. So...this is just Google trying to solve a problem everyone has. If there is a truly patent free awesome codec...great! We all win...a very very tiny win. Firefox does not do H.264 because the FSF is a bunch of nutty zealots, but other than that every browser is going to work fine with H.264. But it will takes years for everything to go to hardware decoding, which is necessary on mobile devices.

iTunes vs wireless synching. Well, google tried to sell music too, how is that working out? Everything synching through iTunes is kind of lame, and I hope Apple is inspired to make a new mobile device synching software infrastructure. Wireless synching is awesome for small files, I hope Apple does better on their cloud stuff. But by the time Google actually comes out with this stuff instead of just talks about it, Apple might have the same features.

Wheh!. I am really bored. Am I the only one that cannot find an iPad or PS3 south of Houston? I really need something else to do besides type on Macrumors. SONY and APPLE...take my money!

ipaid
May 22, 2010, 12:32 PM
Here is the list of all the jabs thrown at Apple by Google at the keynote. It was unbelievable.
http://buzzintechnology.com/2010/05/google-throws-punches-at-apple-google-io/

Peace
May 22, 2010, 12:35 PM
Here is the list of all the jabs thrown at Apple by Google at the keynote. It was unbelievable.
http://buzzintechnology.com/2010/05/google-throws-punches-at-apple-google-io/

"Vic Gundotra started off the keynote by telling a story that stresses the need for a open mobile operating system and warned that if Google did not do it, the future is bleak; a Draconian future. Showing a the picture with reference to 1984 and title “Not the Future We Want” and said

One man, one company, one device, one carrier would be our only choice. That’s a future we do not want."

You know. for anybody that watched LOST.

The above statement sounds exactly like something John Locke would say.

Just sayin'.

And if everybody uses Android ( Google ) is THAT really what we want ? Think about it.

batchtaster
May 22, 2010, 12:37 PM
I'm all for competition, but Google needs to do something original, instead of just matching the same market segments as Apple. This might be the most boring "war"/rivalry ever. I miss the good old days of Microsoft vs Apple...

btcutter
May 22, 2010, 12:38 PM
Understand this. Apple makes money by selling software/hardware. Google makes money by selling Ads.

Google isn't pushing open source out of the goodness of it's heart. It's trying to push Google name or open source with google twist on ALL fronts. Why? They want your eyes and info to SELL ADS. That's how they make money.

Follow the MONEY and you'll see the motive behind their moves.

Competition is good but to say one is evil or another is good is ignorant. They care about our $$.

manhattanboy
May 22, 2010, 12:38 PM
Because this is a Mac blog and is very partisan to Apple, so all the news posted here is tainted with some twist to make it seem like Apple is more important than they really are.

The fact is, and ChazUK pointed it out first, none of these Google moves seem to be a "Let's take on Apple" move. Android was bought in 2005 way before the iPhone was announced to the public, Admob has been around forever, so iAds is more of a response to Google than Admob being a response to Apple, h.264 is being adopted and used everyday by Google, etc.. etc..

Some people here need to take it down a notch, not everything in life is about Apple and "There must be only one!" made for a good movie, but in the markets, I'd rather have competition than a monopoly controlling every segment. Microsoft already showed us how bad it is when 1 company controls the market.

Good thing that the sentiments posted on here are mostly garbage. I'll keep on using OS X on my Macbook to browse the web using Firefox so I can read my e-mail in Gmail, while listening to music ripped from my own CDs through iTunes. Competition is good.

agreed

kevinkt
May 22, 2010, 12:45 PM
Google is playing scared this is super obvious. If this was not true then microsoft should have came up with better products and software from the get go. Period!!!!!!!!! This is just like Kia vs jaguar. Apple is the premium company and will continue to develop innovative products while Microsoft will be in the side lines waiting like a fat schoolboy. BTW where is the HP slate?????? The Courier is dead. What are you Microsoft fanboys see in a seemingly desperate and uninspired company like microsoft! Why do the people who like Apple products have to beat ourselves when ever we have to listen to you rant on and on about how macs are premium and only for looks. Booo hooooo!!!!! The fact still remains even regardless of what I have written that Apple is a good company that makes great stuff. Don't ruin it for the rest of us by playing preschool games with Microsoft.

AlmostThere
May 22, 2010, 12:46 PM
The truth of the matter is Eric Schmidt has been wanting to be the big brother of EVERYTHING for a long,long time. The ONLY reason they want to "keep Apple from being big brother" is so GOOGLE can be big brother. And trust me. Google as big brother will mine all of your personal info,not care about your privacy and make as much money off you as they can without caring one bit.

I think you have confused two different concepts here.

Google use personalisation, based on your own browsing habits, searches and communications to make your searches better and more relevant. Google make the internet better, for you, and anyone (that's everyone!) who needs a layer of organisation on the chaotic network of interconnected content (web pages, images, maps etc.). You are free to opt out, but all search engines do them same, as would Apple if they made one. Google's business is driven by finding the right content for the right person. Portraying their data mining in a universally negative light is pure FUD - and there is no benefit for Google in putting irrelevant ads in front of people.

Apple, by contrast, act as the gatekeeper to the content on (many) mobile devices - what is delivered and how it is delivered. If it is not Apple approved, you will not be able to view it (and before anyone jumps in by pointing to web browsers, consider 1. how much "web" content is actually delivered by apps ... loads - youtube, Google Maps and 2. how many non-Apple browsers are there?). Furthermore, Apple have been completely upfront about their willingness to restrict content. If Apple could find a way to block ugly websites, you can bet your bottom dollar they would.

For a business like Google, devices that are content agnostic are extremely important. They cannot effectively put relevant content on a closed device. Users must be free to use the devices in any manner they see fit, not constrained to a limited set of approved applications. The open nature is so important, Chrome will not even force Google to be your default search engine,just so long as the platform is open.

This is particularly relevant to mobile internet, which has grown massively and the only reason Google have had to make a phone is because Apple have made one good enough that people are (generally unknowingly) sacrificing their freedom to choose and a small, but significant, closed platform is growing.

Ultimately, that is why Apple is the Big Brother.

Sure Google know lots about you but they don't stop you getting information you are looking for - in fact their very business depends on being able to find what you are looking for. Apple are the ones who control and restrict the access to content and therefore have the ability to rewrite the past. Basically Apple, for iPhone and iPad owners, they are the Ministry of Truth.

roocka
May 22, 2010, 12:50 PM
www.isearch.com is owned by a company called Intelius out of Seattle. I don't know anything about this company aside from the fact they do reverse lookups and background checks. If anybody else has info about this company, please let us know.

I figure Apple could either buy the domain from Intelius, but what do you think.

Anuba
May 22, 2010, 12:53 PM
Apple is probably the most aggressively innovative tech company on Earth, and Google is shaping up to be the least. A company that just sits around copying is not likely to succeed long...however MS has done pretty well that way.
Um... where are these original inventions of Apple's? Multitouch? That was an acquisition.

iTunes+iTunes Store+iPods are not original. Microsoft had an mp3-capable media player included with the system in 1998, 3 years before iTunes was first released. Online music stores have existed since the 90's, Sony launched one in 2000, Microsoft has had online purchasing and content subscription features in WMP since 2002, iTunes Store was launched in 2003. Apple did not invent the portable mp3 player either, they had been around for a while when the iPod arrived.

Apple's contribution was to take these three existing concepts and link them together. That's what they do. They take existing technologies that for one reason or another haven't taken off (online music stores, tablets, smartphone web browsers) and redesign them in a way that make them easy to use. They are innovative when it comes to building ecosystems, but for FFS, stop buying into the notion that Apple is the cradle of innovation. Microsoft borrows and steals, Google borrows and steals, Apple borrows and steals. None of them are God. It wasn't that many years ago that Apple relied on Microsoft to supply a ****** web browser for MacOS, and the iPhone relies heavily on Google for some services (search, maps, YouTube).

ShiftyPig
May 22, 2010, 12:53 PM
Did anyone else read this and just think:

http://binarymessiah.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/cool_story_bro2.jpg

DakotaGuy
May 22, 2010, 12:54 PM
One man, one company, one device, one carrier would be our only choice. That’s a future we do not want."


I agree that one company, one device, and one carrier should NOT be our only choice. I know there are many Apple fans that wish the iPhone and AT&T were the only choice, but I am glad that Android is here as a robust competitor offering device and more importantly carrier choice.

roocka
May 22, 2010, 12:57 PM
www.isearch.com is owned by a company called Intelius out of Seattle. I don't know anything about this company aside from the fact they do reverse lookups and background checks. If anybody else has info about this company, please let us know.

I figure Apple could either buy the domain from Intelius, but what do you think.

Here is more information I have found. isearch.com is owned by Naveen Jain. Here is his background.Naveen Jain is an investor in Flow Mobile as well as a member of the Board of Directors. He brings years of entrepreneurial experience to the board. He has built multi-billion dollar startups from the ground up. Naveen Jain, is a co-founder of Intelius, has served as Chief Executive Officer and President and as a member of Intelius’ Board of Directors since its inception in January 2003. Prior to founding Intelius, he was a founder and Chairman of the Board of InfoSpace, Inc., a developer of Internet software and application services, from April 1996 to December 2002. He also served as Chief Executive Officer of InfoSpace from 1996 to April 2000 and again from 2001 to 2002; from 2000 to 2001, he also served as Chief Strategy Officer. From 1989 to 1996, Mr. Jain was a senior executive at Microsoft Corporation. Mr. Jain holds a B.S. in Engineering from Indian Institute of Technology Roorkee (IIT Roorkee) and a post-graduate degree in Personnel Management and Industrial Relations from XLRI Jamshedpur, School of Business and Human Resources.

Quite an impressive resume to say the least. Apple should buy Looksmart and should buy isearch.com and have Naveen Jain run that operation for Apple. This would be brilliant. You can look him up on linkedin.com

old-school
May 22, 2010, 12:59 PM
Microsoft borrows and steals, Google borrows and steals, Apple borrows and steals. None of them are God. It wasn't that many years ago that Apple relied on Microsoft to supply a ****** web browser for MacOS, and the iPhone relies heavily on Google for some services (search, maps, YouTube).

Well said Anuba. I suppose we should expect bias but all companies are there to make money. If they deliver some enjoyable products along the way then great.

btcutter
May 22, 2010, 01:05 PM
I think you have confused two different concepts here.

Google use personalisation, based on your own browsing habits, searches and communications to make your searches better and more relevant. Google make the internet better, for you, and anyone (that's everyone!) who needs a layer of organisation on the chaotic network of interconnected content (web pages, images, maps etc.). You are free to opt out, but all search engines do them same, as would Apple if they made one. Google's business is driven by finding the right content for the right person. Portraying their data mining in a universally negative light is pure FUD - and there is no benefit for Google in putting irrelevant ads in front of people.

Apple, by contrast, act as the gatekeeper to the content on (many) mobile devices - what is delivered and how it is delivered. If it is not Apple approved, you will not be able to view it (and before anyone jumps in by pointing to web browsers, consider 1. how much "web" content is actually delivered by apps ... loads - youtube, Google Maps and 2. how many non-Apple browsers are there?). Furthermore, Apple have been completely upfront about their willingness to restrict content. If Apple could find a way to block ugly websites, you can bet your bottom dollar they would.

For a business like Google, devices that are content agnostic are extremely important. They cannot effectively put relevant content on a closed device. Users must be free to use the devices in any manner they see fit, not constrained to a limited set of approved applications. The open nature is so important, Chrome will not even force Google to be your default search engine,just so long as the platform is open.

This is particularly relevant to mobile internet, which has grown massively and the only reason Google have had to make a phone is because Apple have made one good enough that people are (generally unknowingly) sacrificing their freedom to choose and a small, but significant, closed platform is growing.

Ultimately, that is why Apple is the Big Brother.

Sure Google know lots about you but they don't stop you getting information you are looking for - in fact their very business depends on being able to find what you are looking for. Apple are the ones who control and restrict the access to content and therefore have the ability to rewrite the past. Basically Apple, for iPhone and iPad owners, they are the Ministry of Truth.

Follow the $$$$$. Apple is only limiting what goes on the iTune store. It's not limiting your internet experience in it's laptops/Macs. Apple is selling an experience with it's products....SIMPLICITY, SEAMLESS INTERGRATION and ELEGANCE.

Google isn't doing this out of goodness of it's heart. They can only survive if people continue to use it for search so it can SALE ADS.
That being said. Google does provide some well needed competition and options for users.

ruinfx
May 22, 2010, 01:05 PM
Sigh. There's no "reading into" required. Google was directly taking shots at Apple.

http://kara.allthingsd.com/files/2010/05/vic2-275x210.jpg
Slide shown during keynote referring to Apple.



Whether or not it's true (since, as you point out that Google bought Android earlier), it's the way that Google is portraying it. So ya, it's a direct Google vs Apple mentality propogated by Google, not by this or any other blog.

arn

actually this was started by steve jobs himself. putting the blame on google for "propagating" a google vs apple mentality is just dishonest.

1. rejected google voice native app
2. rejected google latitude native app
3. comments made at his town hall attacking google

google is merely returning the favor.

dukebound85
May 22, 2010, 01:08 PM
Google is playing scared this is super obvious. If this was not true then microsoft should have came up with better products and software from the get go. Period!!!!!!!!! This is just like Kia vs jaguar. Apple is the premium company and will continue to develop innovative products while Microsoft will be in the side lines waiting like a fat schoolboy. BTW where is the HP slate?????? The Courier is dead. What are you Microsoft fanboys see in a seemingly desperate and uninspired company like microsoft! Why do the people who like Apple products have to beat ourselves when ever we have to listen to you rant on and on about how macs are premium and only for looks. Booo hooooo!!!!! The fact still remains even regardless of what I have written that Apple is a good company that makes great stuff. Don't ruin it for the rest of us by playing preschool games with Microsoft.

id argue google is more "innovative" than apple is:rolleyes:

Sacird
May 22, 2010, 01:16 PM
So many Epic threads await in the future. :p

Google will obviously take the mobile industry lead at some point since Android OS is on so many phones and new ones coming out every day it seems. #'s game there. I think Android is cool, not really for me though. Just didn't really dig it when I tried it out. First time I tried Iphone I loved it. Same with WebOS as well. (come on HP)

Apple will continue to make a ton of cash in the market though and this will be kind of similar to the OS wars in a sense. Not the same I know but it has some similarities. My main hope is that webOS and windows mo, get a lot of the pie as well, that would make for a lot of good choices. If they do well see if thats the "future" google wants if it has to deal with all those competitors.

They can get the F out of here with all that BS they spout acting as if they are so pure and good willed. All big corps are the same and after the same thing, $$$ lots of it. It's not complicated. I will say Apple does need a slap here and there, they do leave out too much sh** from their phones to Macs. MMS for a bit, copy and paste for a while as well. They probably will catch up on most missing things currently at WWDC on the phones. Macs to me still should offer more for the premium but that ain't happening. HDMI, Esata, or express offered on more notebooks would be nice though. Blu ray one day as well.

I do wonder if google gaga will try to get into the big boy OS business to try to swing with Windows and OSX. That wouldn't shock me. They are into everything else, I might need to check my girlfriend haha.

Sacird
May 22, 2010, 01:18 PM
id argue google is more "innovative" than apple is:rolleyes:

Sarcasm?

tom5304
May 22, 2010, 01:19 PM
Apple is the premium company and will continue to develop innovative products while Microsoft will be in the side lines waiting like a fat schoolboy.

I resent that remark! :D

dukebound85
May 22, 2010, 01:21 PM
Sarcasm?

No, why would it be? from a SW perspective, they have been very original

Jaro65
May 22, 2010, 01:21 PM
I'm all for competition, but Google needs to do something original, instead of just matching the same market segments as Apple. This might be the most boring "war"/rivalry ever. I miss the good old days of Microsoft vs Apple...

Well, but those days left Apple in shambles. Until SJ came back with his iPod....

notabadname
May 22, 2010, 01:26 PM
Being labeled "Big Brother" by Google is like being called a racist by Hitler.

Google controls and mines more personal data and tracks more personal habits to maximize advertising than anyone. They own massive amounts of satellite imagery and have it linked to everyone's address, with images of your front door. This is tied to your name, phone number, and other personal data and habits. They will be in your living room monitoring and providing your TV and tracking your music tastes. They gobble up books and digitize them with out permission.

Apple is Big Brother? Truly hilarious. Since Google was probably making unauthorized digital copies of "1984", you would think they had at least read it.

Anuba
May 22, 2010, 01:27 PM
I think you have confused two different concepts here.

Google use personalisation, based on your own browsing habits, searches and communications to make your searches better and more relevant. Google make the internet better, for you, and anyone (that's everyone!) who needs a layer of organisation on the chaotic network of interconnected content (web pages, images, maps etc.). You are free to opt out, but all search engines do them same, as would Apple if they made one. Google's business is driven by finding the right content for the right person. Portraying their data mining in a universally negative light is pure FUD - and there is no benefit for Google in putting irrelevant ads in front of people.

Apple, by contrast, act as the gatekeeper to the content on (many) mobile devices - what is delivered and how it is delivered. If it is not Apple approved, you will not be able to view it (and before anyone jumps in by pointing to web browsers, consider 1. how much "web" content is actually delivered by apps ... loads - youtube, Google Maps and 2. how many non-Apple browsers are there?). Furthermore, Apple have been completely upfront about their willingness to restrict content. If Apple could find a way to block ugly websites, you can bet your bottom dollar they would.

For a business like Google, devices that are content agnostic are extremely important. They cannot effectively put relevant content on a closed device. Users must be free to use the devices in any manner they see fit, not constrained to a limited set of approved applications. The open nature is so important, Chrome will not even force Google to be your default search engine,just so long as the platform is open.

This is particularly relevant to mobile internet, which has grown massively and the only reason Google have had to make a phone is because Apple have made one good enough that people are (generally unknowingly) sacrificing their freedom to choose and a small, but significant, closed platform is growing.

Ultimately, that is why Apple is the Big Brother.

Sure Google know lots about you but they don't stop you getting information you are looking for - in fact their very business depends on being able to find what you are looking for. Apple are the ones who control and restrict the access to content and therefore have the ability to rewrite the past. Basically Apple, for iPhone and iPad owners, they are the Ministry of Truth.
I think there are two different notions of Big Brother being used here. Your definition of Big Brother is at odds with the general usage of the term, where Big Brother is a powerful entity (authority or other) that tracks the masses via various means of surveillance and information gathering.

The "walled garden" thing that Apple has going on might earn them the title "Big Bully", "Lock-in Nazis" or whatever, but "Big Brother" is all about controlling information. That's not really what Apple is into. They want to control your purchases and make sure your money ends up with them. But as for information, other than MobileMe mail and calendars (with a market share of, what, a fraction of a percent?) they have zero control or insight into personal information or the internet in general. Google, on the other hand, pretty much controls the internet. I just googled for "Big Brother" to read the Wiki entry, and that Google search went straight into Google's system where it will be stored for 24 months.

If you want to circumvent Apple, all you have to do is stop buying their products, and you'll be off their radar. That's not Big Brother.

If you want to circumvent Google, you have to A) cut yourself off from the internet, and B) build an opaque cage around your house so as not to be caught in their satellite images, and wear a bag over your head in order to avoid the lenses of their 360° street-view cameras. There's Big Brother for you.

Sacird
May 22, 2010, 01:28 PM
No, why would it be? from a SW perspective, they have been very original

On the border I would say but agree to disagree :)

DakotaGuy
May 22, 2010, 01:28 PM
Sarcasm?

Well Google has come up with a very innovative idea called carrier choice. Apple will stick exclusively with AT&T until the market share is so lopsided Android vs. iPhone will look more like Windows vs. Mac.

It's not just the Big 4 carriers in the US that are selling Android phones. The smaller carriers (US Cellular as an example) are also picking up Android phones. Android is hitting 100,000 new activations a day according to Google.

MadeTheSwitch
May 22, 2010, 01:31 PM
Apple is Big Brother? LOL Yeah...right.

Who has the camera equipped trucks roaming every single street taking pictures of your house?

It ain't Apple.

MadeTheSwitch
May 22, 2010, 01:34 PM
Well Google has come up with a very innovative idea called carrier choice. Apple will stick exclusively with AT&T until the market share is so lopsided Android vs. iPhone will look more like Windows vs. Mac.

It's not just the Big 4 carriers in the US that are selling Android phones. The smaller carriers (US Cellular as an example) are also picking up Android phones. Android is hitting 100,000 new activations a day according to Google.

Why would you think something like that? If all the rumors (from reputable sites like WSJ) aren't enough to convince you, the fact that AT&T is dramatically increasing their early termination fee should tell you that Apple isn't planning on sticking to just one playground anymore.

As Steve said himself...."Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won’t let them"