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View Full Version : How significant would no Hexacore at WWDC be?




Deepshade
May 22, 2010, 04:05 AM
If there's no Hexacore at WDDC and no hint of an MP update - how significant do you think that would be for a 2010 MacPro.



Pressure
May 22, 2010, 04:09 AM
It would mean absolutely nothing.

It all depends on whether or not Intel is able to supply an sufficient amount of processors and so far they haven't.

WWDC 2010 is going to be about iPhone OS 4 and the new iPhone.

I believe the Mac Pro will be updated as a casual Tuesday update.

Deepshade
May 22, 2010, 04:57 AM
OT

just had to say - best sig quote I've seen in a long time

Deepshade
May 22, 2010, 06:03 AM
It would mean absolutely nothing.

It all depends on whether or not Intel is able to supply an sufficient amount of processors and so far they haven't.

WWDC 2010 is going to be about iPhone OS 4 and the new iPhone.

I believe the Mac Pro will be updated as a casual Tuesday update.

With the G5s becoming technically obsolete next week - I think no info at all it would be a bit of a double slap in the face for that section of the community.

Pressure
May 22, 2010, 12:24 PM
With the G5s becoming technically obsolete next week - I think no info at all it would be a bit of a double slap in the face for that section of the community.

Becoming? In my opinion they have been obsolete for some time. It has been over 4 years since the transition from PowerPC to x86.

rajbonham
May 22, 2010, 12:44 PM
As said above, if Apple doesn't even provide ANY info on the Mac Pro by the end of WWDC, it will be a serious slap the face. Expect to hear about or see updated Mac Pros by the end of the WWDC event. If not, then I would start to worry.

Deepshade
May 22, 2010, 02:16 PM
As said above, if Apple doesn't even provide ANY info on the Mac Pro by the end of WWDC, it will be a serious slap the face. Expect to hear about or see updated Mac Pros by the end of the WWDC event. If not, then I would start to worry.

FWIW - I think if there's no news in the next two weeks or worse, indeed the next two months - then that is substantial notice from Apple that they have no commitment to the MP line - and have decided that the pursuit of gadget/gizmos cash cow/pad is the way to go - at the expense of the current userbase.

Deepshade
May 22, 2010, 02:24 PM
As said above, if Apple doesn't even provide ANY info on the Mac Pro by the end of WWDC, it will be a serious slap the face. Expect to hear about or see updated Mac Pros by the end of the WWDC event. If not, then I would start to worry.

Very far from it - the whole obsolete thing was (until a couple of weeks ago) geek obsessed. These machines do a job of work in a design studio and have paid for themselves - and more... no chasing technology to have the biggest fastest etc. Used and abused - left on over days, they've done a great job. It's ONLY with Apples notice that they will not repair them and the Intel only CS5, that they become obsolete.

ValSalva
May 22, 2010, 06:59 PM
It would be highly significant. Many developers not only use Mac Pros for writing iPhone/iPad apps, they also write Mac apps. They are going to wonder what's going on with the Mac platform for a variety of reasons. I'd guess that there are going to be a lot of curious and hopefully vocal developers at WWDC wondering about the Mac Pro.

deconstruct60
May 22, 2010, 07:31 PM
It would be highly significant.


Not really. As one poster noted as much as this is an Intel pipeline problem doesn't really contribute much to Apple's big picture motives.

More telling perhaps is that the Macbook dropped last week without any press release at all.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/#section=mac

Not a peep. A new MacPro with just a Xeon bump to the 5600 series is what? Apple doing a major victory lap for releasing something that others have been in limited shipping by dozens of other vendors.






Many developers not only use Mac Pros for writing iPhone/iPad apps, they also write Mac apps.


Will see how much that continues now that the developers discount has been stripped from Developer subscriptions in the future.

I'd guess that there are going to be a lot of curious and hopefully vocal developers at WWDC wondering about the Mac Pro.

Why the curious about the Mac Pro specifically when the Mac as a whole platform has been backburnered at the conference. Seriously, one does not have to loop in the MacPro status to have some questions about Mac's status.

deconstruct60
May 22, 2010, 07:47 PM
if Apple doesn't even provide ANY info on the Mac Pro by the end of WWDC, it will be a serious slap the face. .

As if Apple provides any proactive information most of the time. Most enterprise businesses have a posted notices as to when machines and software are to be retired. That comes up with plenty of time to schedule something. Apple posts next to nothing.

Why put expectations out there that Apple will provide information when they almost never do (excepts are brand new product categories. existing ones ) , then label it as "new" or "unusual" behavior.

In one of the last "big events" Jobs spin doctor as the largest mobile company. It is not just small gagets that is out of favor. It is basically anything that primarily sits in one place. They are all on various degrees of slow pacing. Mini languished for long while at one point. It may be the MacPro's turn now.

Even if the Intel supply chain is cocked up, Apple has had time to stockpile to get something going. However, nothing is really gained by coupling that to WWDC. There is no sizzle worth a "call a press conference" treatment what is likely the update.

sushi
May 22, 2010, 07:59 PM
It would mean absolutely nothing.
Agree.

WWDC 2010 is going to be about iPhone OS 4 and the new iPhone.
Agree. Plus we will probably see hints at the future of the iPad and iPod touch hardware wise.

I believe the Mac Pro will be updated as a casual Tuesday update.
Agree.

In the past, Apple had MacWorld events to introduce new hardware. Unfortunately, the MacWorld events drove the development, deployment and marketing. Now with Tuesday updates, it keeps things fresher and with more visibility for Apple which in turn increases traffic in their stores.

Becoming? In my opinion they have been obsolete for some time. It has been over 4 years since the transition from PowerPC to x86.
Please remember that a computer is not obsolete as long as it still performs the function for which is was intended or needed to accomplish.

Aldaris
May 22, 2010, 09:12 PM
It means the purchasing difference between a 27" iMac or the possibly 'new' Mac Pro...

TennisandMusic
May 22, 2010, 10:18 PM
What is all this garbage about how Apple is moving away from the Mac? It can't happen unless the company is led by complete buffoons (I guess that could be argued in some ways).

You can't HAVE the iGadgets without the Mac's. If the Mac stuff died, so would the entire iGadget ecosystem.

Apple HAS to have some decent Mac news at some point.

sushi
May 22, 2010, 10:42 PM
Apple HAS to have some decent Mac news at some point.
As an old timer, I see it this way:

- The real Mac OS (Pre-Mac OS X -- through System 9)

- The shell Mac OX (runs above Unix)

The next version will be ... the multi-touch Mac OX

Apple has been through many hardware changes (68, PPC, Intel) and through a significant OS change (from 9 to X). Now we are seeing the beginning of the next evolution which is multi-touch.

But don't worry, the hardware will continue to be updated. :)

TennisandMusic
May 22, 2010, 10:50 PM
As an old timer, I see it this way:

- The real Mac OS (Pre-Mac OS X -- through System 9)

- The shell Mac OX (runs above Unix)

The next version will be ... the multi-touch Mac OX

Apple has been through many hardware changes (68, PPC, Intel) and through a significant OS change (from 9 to X). Now we are seeing the beginning of the next evolution which is multi-touch.

But don't worry, the hardware will continue to be updated. :)

I still don't see how a multi touch OS benefits a desktop/work machine. The keyboard and mouse are incredibly precise and efficient tools. Using fingers for work is a backwards move.

sushi
May 22, 2010, 11:03 PM
I still don't see how a multi touch OS benefits a desktop/work machine. The keyboard and mouse are incredibly precise and efficient tools. Using fingers for work is a backwards move.
Paradigm shift over time. :)

In the interim, we'll see introduction of touch features (as we already have on the MBP with the mouse pad and of course the magic mouse) into the interface.

Nothing says that you can't have multi-touch, keyboard and mouse interfaces in the same device be it a desktop or laptop type computer.

Take a look at this demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiS-W9aeG0s) by Jeff Han. It gives a preview of what can be done with multi-touch. Apple's approach has been the handheld portable market. Microsoft is headed for table (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKgU6ubBgJA) and larger implementations.

TennisandMusic
May 22, 2010, 11:09 PM
Paradigm shift over time. :)

In the interim, we'll see introduction of touch features (as we already have on the MBP with the mouse pad and of course the magic mouse) into the interface.

Nothing says that you can't have multi-touch, keyboard and mouse interfaces in the same device be it a desktop or laptop type computer.

Take a look at this demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiS-W9aeG0s) by Jeff Han. It gives a preview of what can be done with multi-touch. Apple's approach has been the handheld portable market. Microsoft is headed for table (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKgU6ubBgJA) and larger implementations.

"Paradigm shift over time" doesn't really mean anything though. That doesn't describe a benefit, you're just saying "it happens." The video you linked too is four years old (way before iPhone was even thought about by the public) and does not really show anything of value other than neat looking images.

I am talking about real work, the kind of stuff that drives us as a society. "Fancy" touch capability on our screens does not really do this (yet).

Can anyone give an example of where touch interaction is faster for work than a keyboard and mouse? Too many people think in terms of entertainment and "whizz bang" features, and really don't think about what is actually useful. Then again, most people aren't creative or produce anything either.

sushi
May 22, 2010, 11:53 PM
Examples off the top of my mind:
Engineering (all disciplines but especially EE and ME).
CAD design.
Flowcharting.
Application development.
Navigation and terrain analysis.
Network analysis and trouble shooting.
Conducting investigations and analysis.
Teaching and instructing on most anything.

Basically anything requiring a workflow and team effort or analysis would be conducive to the multi-touch interface.

Just like we didn't go from DOS to Windows overnight. The trip will be gradual.

While limited in it's current implementation, Molecules (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/molecules/id284943090?mt=8) provides an example of what can be done with multi-touch for molecule analysis. Doing this with a mouse or keyboard would be tedious. Multi-touch is so simple and easy to use in this case.

Deepshade
May 23, 2010, 03:52 AM
Agree.

Please remember that a computer is not obsolete as long as it still performs the function for which is was intended or needed to accomplish.

Yes I can still design on one - and run 3d software...but for me and many others, it becomes obsolete if you cannot run the latest software and cannot get the machine officially repaired.
The last issue turning it from an asset to a potential liability.

sushi
May 23, 2010, 10:07 AM
Yes I can still design on one - and run 3d software...but for me and many others, it becomes obsolete if you cannot run the latest software and cannot get the machine officially repaired.
The last issue turning it from an asset to a potential liability.
Understand.

I believe that my reply above includes your exceptions. :)

hoj
May 23, 2010, 10:59 AM
I still don't see how a multi touch OS benefits a desktop/work machine. The keyboard and mouse are incredibly precise and efficient tools. Using fingers for work is a backwards move.

I want a desktop machine which lets me use 2 mice at the same time, one in the left hand, one in the right. :)

300D
May 23, 2010, 11:33 AM
If there's no Hexacore at WDDC and no hint of an MP update - how significant do you think that would be for a 2010 MacPro.

Not in the least.

300D
May 23, 2010, 11:39 AM
it becomes obsolete if you cannot run the latest software and cannot get the machine officially repaired.
The last issue turning it from an asset to a potential liability.

Keep the machine maintained (dust removal) and it will never need to be repaired except for the occasional failed hard drive.

Max(IT)
May 23, 2010, 11:59 AM
It would mean absolutely nothing.

It all depends on whether or not Intel is able to supply an sufficient amount of processors and so far they haven't.

WWDC 2010 is going to be about iPhone OS 4 and the new iPhone.

I believe the Mac Pro will be updated as a casual Tuesday update.

absolutely agree with that.
Mac Pro 2010 will be a silent release

goMac
May 23, 2010, 06:45 PM
Not very significant. I haven't seen hardly any commercial hexacore workstations out there.

It's not like Apple is running behind the industry at this point (except for graphics cards.)

Deepshade
May 27, 2010, 02:23 AM
Not very significant. I haven't seen hardly any commercial hexacore workstations out there.

It's not like Apple is running behind the industry at this point (except for graphics cards.)

So no Professional product announcement for nearly a year and a half. In an industry that has new technology announcements almost weekly!

I'd call that significant.

chaosbunny
May 27, 2010, 06:44 AM
So no Professional product announcement for nearly a year and a half. In an industry that has new technology announcements almost weekly!

I'd call that significant.

I agree. It's not only the gfx options that are lagging behind... 3gb ram, 640 gb hd for a 2500 bucks machine in 2010?

xgman
May 27, 2010, 09:53 AM
As said above, if Apple doesn't even provide ANY info on the Mac Pro by the end of WWDC, it will be a serious slap the face. Expect to hear about or see updated Mac Pros by the end of the WWDC event. If not, then I would start to worry.

Look, it already is a slap in the face as far as I'm concerned, and I'd be shocked to see even a mention of Mac pro at WWDC at this point.

Deepshade
May 27, 2010, 10:20 AM
I know where not talking like for like but...
...If you use a desktop to handle multi-threaded tasks like video encoding or editing multi-layered, high resolution photos in Photoshop, you're not going to find a more compelling desktop option than the Studio XPS 7100 (http://en.community.dell.com/dell-blogs/b/direct2dell/archive/2010/05/12/studio-xps-7100-amd-6-core-processors-in-a-dell-desktop.aspx). With the 6-core AMD 1055T, pricing starts at $699.

If Apple can't compete (on some level) with this - where does that say to the current 'Pro' Apple user.

jnpy!$4g3cwk
May 27, 2010, 10:39 AM
Look, it already is a slap in the face as far as I'm concerned, and I'd be shocked to see even a mention of Mac pro at WWDC at this point.
It is not like you are going to see a massive increase in CPU performance over what you already have (which is already massive!). Now that Westmere is shipping, I would expect to see a one-for-one system. Intel really hasn't given Apple cost/performance options, so, that's it. These just started shipping production/quantity, so, I don't see what the big deal is!

The GPU configuration is a little more interesting - Apple has options, and, besides straight graphics performance, you also have the OpenCL performance aspect. The power/cooling aspects of some of these options are a challenge--this is a tower, not a rack solution. What would GPUs you go for if you were Apple?

iMacmatician
May 27, 2010, 10:51 AM
What would GPUs you go for if you were Apple?Larrabee.



:D

Umbongo
May 27, 2010, 11:39 AM
I agree. It's not only the gfx options that are lagging behind... 3gb ram, 640 gb hd for a 2500 bucks machine in 2010?

Workstations have a tradition of shipping with the minimum amount of memory and storage. Only in 2009 did Apple change from that since at least the G5 days and for Apple it's probably only because they sell them as retail units, they are so over priced and they'd look weird compared to the rest of the Mac range.

Umbongo
May 27, 2010, 11:44 AM
It is not like you are going to see a massive increase in CPU performance over what you already have (which is already massive!). Now that Westmere is shipping, I would expect to see a one-for-one system. Intel really hasn't given Apple cost/performance options, so, that's it. These just started shipping production/quantity, so, I don't see what the big deal is!

The GPU configuration is a little more interesting - Apple has options, and, besides straight graphics performance, you also have the OpenCL performance aspect. The power/cooling aspects of some of these options are a challenge--this is a tower, not a rack solution. What would GPUs you go for if you were Apple?

The big deal seems to really be that there is no information. When we see Apple shipping a month before launch last year and within 2 months the past two times combined no word to customers and a focus on the consumer and mobility space it makes people stir crazy, especially when they have an outlet like this.

For the graphics cards, the GTX 480 and Radeon 5870 would be the most you would see and they are not really any worse than cards that have been offered before in terms of temperate and the power supply can easily cope with them.

calderone
May 27, 2010, 11:44 AM
I know where not talking like for like but...
...If you use a desktop to handle multi-threaded tasks like video encoding or editing multi-layered, high resolution photos in Photoshop, you're not going to find a more compelling desktop option than the Studio XPS 7100 (http://en.community.dell.com/dell-blogs/b/direct2dell/archive/2010/05/12/studio-xps-7100-amd-6-core-processors-in-a-dell-desktop.aspx). With the 6-core AMD 1055T, pricing starts at $699.

If Apple can't compete (on some level) with this - where does that say to the current 'Pro' Apple user.

It doesn't say anything to those who have been using Apple for a long time.

Apple has never competed with these bargain basement machines. Any 'Pro' user would know this.

Aldaris
May 27, 2010, 02:58 PM
It doesn't say anything to those who have been using Apple for a long time.

Apple has never competed with these bargain basement machines. Any 'Pro' user would know this.

The majority of Mac Pro owners are upgrading from either a PowerMac G4 or G5, and most of us have used these systems for years. Case in point my G4 was purchased in fall '03. Nearly 7 years that machine has save my butt and produced beautiful projects! Find me a PC that can run like a champ for 7 years... With NO PROBLEMS

Fanboy, maybe, but a fan boy with some nice machines that still run great!

calderone
May 27, 2010, 03:18 PM
The majority of Mac Pro owners are upgrading from either a PowerMac G4 or G5, and most of us have used these systems for years. Case in point my G4 was purchased in fall '03. Nearly 7 years that machine has save my butt and produced beautiful projects! Find me a PC that can run like a champ for 7 years... With NO PROBLEMS

Fanboy, maybe, but a fan boy with some nice machines that still run great!

Am I supposed to disagree with this?

deconstruct60
May 27, 2010, 04:16 PM
So no Professional product announcement for nearly a year and a half.


Eh? When is 451 days a year and half. Which calendar are you on? 451/365 = 1.25 . We'd have to go another 3 months to get to a year and a half.

That's only if Mac Pro is the only Pro product. It isn't.

Also there are hexcores out there now that aren't even aimed at the pro market (enthusiast perhaps, but not pro).




In an industry that has new technology announcements almost weekly! I'd call that significant.


Only if you can't count. It is not the number of aggregate announcements but the number of individual ones. Only the product update cycle of the individual products is significant. In other words the fact that other vendors updated about 12 months later after '09 announcements is significant. Not that there were 15 vendor announcing that they were introducing roughly the same thing (e.g., 15 vendors all announcing 5600 series Xeons is just "double counting" )

There is always going to be loads of activity going on through the year across broad product lines. Different companies start product development at different times. There is nothing significant in that in and of itself.

There is little reason to drop updates more than once a year in the over $2000 and certainly over $3,000 workstation market. Extremely few are going to buy a new machine every year so will just have renewals and new entries into the market. It is an increasing large (relative to average PC price) investment. Folks are going to use the machine for a while to get the capital investment back.