New faster, Intel ULV CPUs in Core i3, i5, i7 variants announced. Will MBA get one?

Scottsdale · May 24, 2010

New CPUs announced by Intel today. These could be the rumored CPUs used in the next MBA. They provide faster clock speeds than current ULV CPUs. In addition, they add a Core i3 ULV variant.

Core i7-660UM - 1.33 to 2.4 GHz
Core i5-540UM
Core 5-430UM
Core i3-330UM

The next variants come out in 4Q that offer the Core i7 at 1.46 GHz.

Anyways, these are all possible I would suppose. However, if only the Core i7 can be overclocked permanently it would be likely Apple would use this new Core i7-660UM in high-end and either the Core i7-620UM or Core i7-640UM in low-end.

I suppose anything is possible. All of the rumors have been saying this, maybe Jobs will announce this at WWDC now that more CPUs are available?

Here's a link to the Engadget Article

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/24/intel-officially-outs-core-i3-i5-and-i7-ulv-processors-for-thos/

At least there's hope and a real reason for Apple to have waited this long for an MBA update... sorta.

Hellhammer · May 24, 2010

Looks promising though only 130MHz more. Are you sure about that 1.46GHz? It sounds very abnormal frequency. Anyway, MBA is forced to use the Intel GPU, so it's up to Apple whether Steve accepts the IGP or not. I would guess the price of 660UM to be ~340$.

aiqw9182 · May 24, 2010

I'm guessing the GPU frequency is still terrible like the previous ULV processors? Meaing it's going to be worse than the 9400M? Disappointing. If Intel wasn't forcing everyone to use their garbage IGP this would be a great update.

hashholly · May 24, 2010

Any idea on what the real world performance differences between those core I ULV's and the Core 2 Duo in the current Macbook Airs? Would the increase in power be worth the loss of GPU power?

SaleenS351 · May 24, 2010

Would an Intel GPU be a marked improvement over the current 9400m? or would the gains from core i series be crippled by the Intel GPU?

Would Jobs announce both new Mac Pros and new MBA's at WWDC?

Scottsdale · May 24, 2010

Hellhammer said:
Looks promising though only 130MHz more. Are you sure about that 1.46GHz? It sounds very abnormal frequency. Anyway, MBA is forced to use the Intel GPU, so it's up to Apple whether Steve accepts the IGP or not. I would guess the price of 660UM to be ~340$.

Not if it turns the GMA IGP off. Then uses the full capabilities at up to 2.4 GHz of the new Core i7. If it did that, it would have to use a dedicated GPU for graphics. However, it could easily do it within the current MBA's TDP.

The current MBA is at 29W. Apple could use the 18W Core i7-660UM overclocked with GMA IGP off, and use an ATI 5430 at 7W for a total reduction of 4W to a 25W TDP in the MBA. That would add massive graphics performance boosts, with typical Core i7 boosts, a real marketable MBA with newest Core i7 and a GPU that would beat the 13" MBPs GPU... it would make those MBP buyers that don't need a 10-hour battery or optical drive be able to select an MBA at a price bump but with a highly preferred GPU.

This is all speculation that rumors are truthful that the MBA is getting a Core i7 with the GMA IGP turned off and full capabilities of CPU going towards the CPU's 32nm DIE with 45nm GMA DIE off. One would naturally assume that this requires a dedicated GPU. The most energy efficient discrete GPUs are ATI's. However, I suppose Apple could introduce a new Nvidia GPU that uses very little energy. The Nvidia 310m uses 14W, while the ATI 5430 uses a 7W TDP. I don't know how Nvidia makes that up, but I guess anything is possible.

hashholly · May 24, 2010

Scottsdale said:
Not if it turns the GMA IGP off. Then uses the full capabilities at up to 2.4 GHz of the new Core i7. If it did that, it would have to use a dedicated GPU for graphics. However, it could easily do it within the current MBA's TDP.

The current MBA is at 29W. Apple could use the 18W Core i7-660UM overclocked with GMA IGP off, and use an ATI 5430 at 7W for a total reduction of 4W to a 25W TDP in the MBA. That would add massive graphics performance boosts, with typical Core i7 boosts, a real marketable MBA with newest Core i7 and a GPU that would beat the 13" MBPs GPU... it would make those MBP buyers that don't need a 10-hour battery or optical drive be able to select an MBA at a price bump but with a highly preferred GPU.

This is all speculation that rumors are truthful that the MBA is getting a Core i7 with the GMA IGP turned off and full capabilities of CPU going towards the CPU's 32nm DIE with 45nm GMA DIE off. One would naturally assume that this requires a dedicated GPU. The most energy efficient discrete GPUs are ATI's. However, I suppose Apple could introduce a new Nvidia GPU that uses very little energy. The Nvidia 310m uses 14W, while the ATI 5430 uses a 7W TDP. I don't know how Nvidia makes that up, but I guess anything is possible.

would a dedicated graphics solution be able to fit in the MBA?

Hellhammer · May 24, 2010

SaleenS351 said:
Would an Intel GPU be a marked improvement over the current 9400m? or would the gains from core i series be crippled by the Intel GPU?

Would Jobs announce both new Mac Pros and new MBA's at WWDC?

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Graphics-Media-Accelerator-HD.23065.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9400M-G.11949.0.html

Intel GPU is about as fast as 9400M, marginally faster in some tests

Scottsdale said:
Not if it turns the GMA IGP off. Then uses the full capabilities at up to 2.4 GHz of the new Core i7. If it did that, it would have to use a dedicated GPU for graphics. However, it could easily do it within the current MBA's TDP.

The current MBA is at 29W. Apple could use the 18W Core i7-660UM overclocked with GMA IGP off, and use an ATI 5430 at 7W for a total reduction of 4W to a 25W TDP in the MBA. That would add massive graphics performance boosts, with typical Core i7 boosts, a real marketable MBA with newest Core i7 and a GPU that would beat the 13" MBPs GPU... it would make those MBP buyers that don't need a 10-hour battery or optical drive be able to select an MBA at a price bump but with a highly preferred GPU.

This is all speculation that rumors are truthful that the MBA is getting a Core i7 with the GMA IGP turned off and full capabilities of CPU going towards the CPU's 32nm DIE with 45nm GMA DIE off. One would naturally assume that this requires a dedicated GPU. The most energy efficient discrete GPUs are ATI's. However, I suppose Apple could introduce a new Nvidia GPU that uses very little energy. The Nvidia 310m uses 14W, while the ATI 5430 uses a 7W TDP. I don't know how Nvidia makes that up, but I guess anything is possible.

13" MacBook Pro didn't get dedicated GPU so it would be nonsense to include one in MBA. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple continued with C2D and would just add 320M

aiqw9182 · May 24, 2010

Hellhammer said:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Graphics-Media-Accelerator-HD.23065.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9400M-G.11949.0.html

Intel GPU is about as fast as 9400M, marginally faster in some tests

The tests for the Intel HD Graphics are based on the higher end Arrandale chips. The ULV processors have a GPU frequency of 166MHz. The 35 watt Arrandale chips(which is what the link you provided used) have a GPU with a 500MHz frequency.

Hellhammer · May 24, 2010

aiqw9182 said:
The tests for the Intel HD Graphics are based on the higher end Arrandale chips. The ULV processors have a GPU frequency of 166MHz. The 35 watt Arrandale chips(which is what the link you provided used) have a GPU with a 500MHz frequency.

Base frequency of 166MHz, but up to 500MHz according to this. 35W Arrandale have 500MHz as base freq and maximum of 766MHz I think

aiqw9182 · May 24, 2010

Hellhammer said:
Base frequency of 166MHz, but up to 500MHz according to this. 35W Arrandale have 500MHz as base freq and maximum of 766MHz I think

From notebookcheck:
"The Turbo Boost function of the new Arrandale CPUs also allows the automatic overclocking of the GPU core. The graphics card is only overclocked if the CPU is not fully loaded and the TDP is not fully used.

High End: Core i5 520M, 540M, i7 620M: 500-766 MHz
Low End: Core i3 330M, 350M: 500-677 MHz
Low Voltage: Core i7 620LM, 640LM: 266-566 MHz
Ultra Low Voltage: Core i5-520UM, i5-620UM, 640UM: 166-500 MHz
It is questionable if the Turbo is really often used in current games, as most games also use a lot of CPU time. Therefore, the UM and LM versions of the GMA HD should be a lot slower because of the slow base speed of 166 / 266 MHz."

Either way if it was always at 500MHz it would still be a downgrade because of the lack of hardware acceleration and OpenCL support.

SaleenS351 · May 24, 2010

Hellhammer said:
13" MacBook Pro didn't get dedicated GPU so it would be nonsense to include one in MBA. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple continued with C2D and would just add 320M

What's the next ULV C2D alternative for the MBA?

Scottsdale · May 24, 2010

SaleenS351 said:
Would an Intel GPU be a marked improvement over the current 9400m? or would the gains from core i series be crippled by the Intel GPU?

Would Jobs announce both new Mac Pros and new MBA's at WWDC?

LMAO, um NO the Intel GMA IGP would be a disgusting move for Apple to make with the MBA. In fact, Jobs recently criticized the GMA IGP as the reason Apple used the Core 2 Duo with Nvidia 320m in the new 13" MBPs.

I don't know if a discrete GPU would fit in the MBA or not. I assume Apple is not including this system in the 13" MBP due to cost or the MacFive theory I have. Basically, if the discrete GPU wouldn't fit in any one of five Macs Apple wouldn't use it. Because Apple has used one setup for MacFive since October 2008.

The 13" MB, 13" MBA, 13" MBP, Mm, and 20/21.5" iMac all use the same basic system requiring the same driver integration into OS, requiring one set of Nvidia GPU drivers and h.264, OpenGL, and OpenCL integration into OS X. I offer the past MacFive as the reason Apple should release a C2D MBA with an Nvidia 320m in the MBA, Mm, and 21.5" iMac as soon as it gets the 13" MBP and MB inventories stocked up to meet demand.

I still think we should get a C2D with Nvidia 320m, because I don't think Apple will create a completely different strategy for the MBA. However, maybe Apple would think the MBA user doesn't need the 320m and can live with the GMA IGP. I just don't think that's going to happen. So if Apple is using a Core i7, turning of GMA IGP to permanently overclock the CPU it will be forced to use a discrete GPU.

I don't know if the limitation is based on MacFive, cost, space, or TDP factors? I don't think Apple would introduce an MBA with C2D and Nvidia 320m at WWDC as it would be a boring update. So if it gets the C2D with Nvidia 320m update, it will just come along some week when Apple gets to updating it in the factory lines. Why wouldn't Apple update the 13" MBP and MB first? Makes sense. Any update at WWDC probably offers something entirely new like the Core i7. I feel it would be awfully difficult to market a 1.33 GHz MBA. So Apple must have something else up its sleeve if it really plans to update the MBA at WWDC.

The good news is in two weeks and 36 minutes SJ takes the stage at WWDC. I suppose within two hours there we will know if the MBA update happens at WWDC. I suppose we're hoping Apple shuts down the Apple Store during the keynote to update to new MBA and Mac Pro along with new Apple Cinema Displays, AppleTV, 6" iPad, and iPhone updates. I know that it's extremely doubtful all of these would be updated but they're all due.

Hellhammer · May 24, 2010

aiqw9182 said:
From notebookcheck:
"The Turbo Boost function of the new Arrandale CPUs also allows the automatic overclocking of the GPU core. The graphics card is only overclocked if the CPU is not fully loaded and the TDP is not fully used.

High End: Core i5 520M, 540M, i7 620M: 500-766 MHz
Low End: Core i3 330M, 350M: 500-677 MHz
Low Voltage: Core i7 620LM, 640LM: 266-566 MHz
Ultra Low Voltage: Core i5-520UM, i5-620UM, 640UM: 166-500 MHz
It is questionable if the Turbo is really often used in current games, as most games also use a lot of CPU time. Therefore, the UM and LM versions of the GMA HD should be a lot slower because of the slow base speed of 166 / 266 MHz."

Either way if it was always at 500MHz it would still be a downgrade because of the lack of hardware acceleration and OpenCL support.

Yeah, could be. Never thought about the ULV one, have only thought about 35W ones MBPs use.

SaleenS351 said:
What's the next ULV C2D alternative for the MBA?

It's the 2.13GHz C2D the MBA already uses. Unless Apple can fit a 25W CPU which is unlikely, it's either that with better GPU or i7 with crappy GPU

fyrefly · May 24, 2010

I too have my fingers Crossed for a MBA update based on these new chips. An i7-660UM with the graphics Die shut off + an ATI or NVidia graphics solution would be amazing! MBA used to be positioned between the MB and the MBPro (before there was a 13" MBP) so I can see the graphics chip pushing it hopefully back to that niche (And the price to match).

hashholly said:
would a dedicated graphics solution be able to fit in the MBA?

Here's hoping. The new i7-660UM chip is 32% smaller than the other i7 Mobile chips - so I'm hoping they can fit it all in... Plus no Optical Drive or Ethernet ports to clog up the motherboard - makes sense to me.

Hellhammer said:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Graphics-Media-Accelerator-HD.23065.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9400M-G.11949.0.html

Intel GPU is about as fast as 9400M, marginally faster in some tests

Yeah, but not in the underclocked UM packages as others have stated.

Hellhammer said:
13" MacBook Pro didn't get dedicated GPU so it would be nonsense to include one in MBA. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple continued with C2D and would just add 320M

There's no other C2D chips in the ULV range to use. The 1.86 and 2.13 SL9600/9400 are the only chips Intel put out. So there's no C2D update that can be done.

Without the space taken up by the optical drive - I can easily see the MBA having room for a 32% smaller i7 chip and a dedicated GPU from Nvidia or ATI.

My dream (hopefully soon reality!) MBA Rev D specs:

Intel i7-660UM Chip - 1.33Ghz turbos to 2.4Ghz
ATI 5430 or even maybe 5650 (only uses ~15W)
4GB RAM
128 GB SSD
Better Battery (same one that gives iPad 10+ hours Battery life? - would give MBA 6hrs?)

That would make a MBA that's 2x faster than the older ones and still at under 3lbs! Amazing!!!

Scottsdale · May 24, 2010

Hellhammer said:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Graphics-Media-Accelerator-HD.23065.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9400M-G.11949.0.html

Intel GPU is about as fast as 9400M, marginally faster in some tests

13" MacBook Pro didn't get dedicated GPU so it would be nonsense to include one in MBA. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple continued with C2D and would just add 320M

I have always said I think the MBA should get the C2D and Nvidia 320m. I am just reporting on the news of a rumored potential CPU for the new MBA. It has potential to be used. I always think the MacFive strategy will be used until I see an MBA without the same base component makeup for not just lowering costs of buying in bulk but also for integration into OS X for drivers and etc.

SaleenS351 said:
What's the next ULV C2D alternative for the MBA?

Are you asking for the next C2D? Apple is done making C2D at the end of 2010. The Core i7-6x0LM is the Intel stated replacement chip for the current SL9x00 Apple uses in the MBA. The problem is Nvidia cannot provide chipsets for chips beyond C2D. That is why Apple used C2D so it could use the Nvidia 320m GPU/chipset in the 13" MBP and MB again.

aiqw9182 · May 24, 2010

Scottsdale said:
The 13" MB, 13" MBA, 13" MBP, Mm, and 20/21.5" iMac all use the same basic system requiring the same driver integration into OS, requiring one set of Nvidia GPU drivers and h.264, OpenGL, and OpenCL integration into OS X. I offer the past MacFive as the reason Apple should release a C2D MBA with an Nvidia 320m in the MBA, Mm, and 21.5" iMac as soon as it gets the 13" MBP and MB inventories stocked up to meet demand.

This iMac refresh will likely be the last to follow that. The next CPU's ready for the 21.5" iMacs is Clarkdale which comes with Intel's IGP.

fyrefly said:
There's no other C2D chips in the ULV range to use. The 1.86 and 2.13 SL9600/9400 are the only chips Intel put out. So there's no C2D update that can be done.

Apple can easily get away with the same C2D processors with the 320M. Shove a 128GB SSD in the low end and 256SSD in the high end and you have a pretty good situation on your hands.

Hellhammer · May 24, 2010

fyrefly said:
My dream (hopefully soon reality!) MBA Rev D specs:

Intel i7-660UM Chip - 1.33Ghz turbos to 2.4Ghz
ATI 5430 or even maybe 5650 (only uses ~15W)
4GB RAM
128 GB SSD
Better Battery (same one that gives iPad 10+ hours Battery life? - would give MBA 6hrs?)

That would make a MBA that's 2x faster than the older ones and still at under 3lbs! Amazing!!!

ATI 5650 would outperform 330M so no chance

aiqw9182 said:
This iMac refresh will likely be the last to follow that. The next CPU's ready for the 21.5" iMacs is Clarkdale which comes with Intel's IGP.

But Apple will likely (at least I hope so) use a dedicated GPU in all iMacs as they have no space issues. E.g. ATI 54xx in low-end, ATI 57xx in mid, and ATI 58xx in high-end

Apple can easily get away with the same C2D processors with the 320M. Shove a 128GB SSD in the low end and 256SSD in the high end and you have a pretty good situation on your hands.

Are there 256GB 1.8" SSDs available?

SaleenS351 · May 24, 2010

Well at the very least, this new announcement has given renewed hope at the possibility at least in the near term that the MBA could see a core i series chip and that 2011 will certainly see the new core i series in the MBA.

However, what does the MBA need more a new GPU and upgraded RAM or an updated processor and RAM?

aiqw9182 · May 24, 2010

Hellhammer said:
But Apple will likely (at least I hope so) use a dedicated GPU in all iMacs as they have no space issues. E.g. ATI 54xx in low-end, ATI 57xx in mid, and ATI 58xx in high-end

Yeah, that's what I was saying. Only integrated graphics should've never been on the iMacs to begin with.

Are there 256GB 1.8" SSDs available?

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ros_256gb_ssd_that_may_reach_macbook_air.html

fr4c · May 24, 2010

And now the waiting game...

Does ATI offer any GPU chips that might perhaps fit in the MBA, or is this going to be a C2D/320M update like the 13" MBP.

aiqw9182 · May 24, 2010

fr4c said:
And now the waiting game...

Does ATI offer any GPU chips that might perhaps fit in the MBA, or is this going to be a C2D/320M update like the 13" MBP.

The latter.

DraziGuy · May 24, 2010

Could they save space by soldering flash memory directly onto the mobo somewhere? Use the space a 1.8 or 2.5 form factor drive would take and apply discrete graphics. With the volume that Apple does in flash, they could probably do this fairly cost effectively.

hashholly · May 24, 2010

fyrefly said:
I too have my fingers Crossed for a MBA update based on these new chips. An i7-660UM with the graphics Die shut off + an ATI or NVidia graphics solution would be amazing! MBA used to be positioned between the MB and the MBPro (before there was a 13" MBP) so I can see the graphics chip pushing it hopefully back to that niche (And the price to match).

Here's hoping. The new i7-660UM chip is 32% smaller than the other i7 Mobile chips - so I'm hoping they can fit it all in... Plus no Optical Drive or Ethernet ports to clog up the motherboard - makes sense to me.

Yeah, but not in the underclocked UM packages as others have stated.

There's no other C2D chips in the ULV range to use. The 1.86 and 2.13 SL9600/9400 are the only chips Intel put out. So there's no C2D update that can be done.

Without the space taken up by the optical drive - I can easily see the MBA having room for a 32% smaller i7 chip and a dedicated GPU from Nvidia or ATI.

My dream (hopefully soon reality!) MBA Rev D specs:

Intel i7-660UM Chip - 1.33Ghz turbos to 2.4Ghz
ATI 5430 or even maybe 5650 (only uses ~15W)
4GB RAM
128 GB SSD
Better Battery (same one that gives iPad 10+ hours Battery life? - would give MBA 6hrs?)

That would make a MBA that's 2x faster than the older ones and still at under 3lbs! Amazing!!!

All things considered i think we are probably looking at

2.13ghz Core 2 Duo
4gb of Ram
Nvidia Geforce 320M
128gb or 256gb SSD options
7 Hours Battery Life (considering the relative increases from prior MBP to current)

Hopefully they will also include Audio support over MDP for HDMI

fyrefly · May 24, 2010

hashholly said:
All things considered i think we are probably looking at

2.13ghz Core 2 Duo
4gb of Ram
Nvidia Geforce 320M
128gb or 256gb SSD options
7 Hours Battery Life (considering the relative increases from prior MBP to current)

Hopefully they will also include Audio support over MDP for HDMI

Audio over MDP is a no-brainer at this point.

If they do go with this config - they're gonna have to drop the price - have this 2.13Ghz model be at the price of the 1.86 Model currently.

We'll see - I really hope they can find a way to get the i7's in there.

New faster, Intel ULV CPUs in Core i3, i5, i7 variants announced. Will MBA get one?

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