NVIDIA GeForce 480M... iMac bound?

[aiqw9182]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/25/nvidia-geforce-gtx-480m-worlds-fastest-mobile-gpu-now-offici/

NVIDIA is claiming it as the fastest mobile GPU, this doesn't sound half bad considering the fact that ATI really dropped the ball in terms of performance on the 5XXX mobility line over their 4XXX mobility line.

[Eidorian]

I'd still take the Mobility HD 5850/5870.

[aiqw9182]

I'd still take the Mobility HD 5850/5870.

Fair enough, but I'd like to see some benchmarks on this new GPU before I come to any conclusions.

[TMRaven]

It has a power consumption of 100 watts, and is only a mobile processor! So good!

[Eidorian]

Fair enough, but I'd like to see some benchmarks on this new GPU before I come to any conclusions.I don't have much faith in a low clocked GTX 465 vs. a 5770.

[aiqw9182]

I don't have much faith in a low clocked GTX 465 vs. a 5770.I never said anything about the 5770, 4850, or 5850. This could be fine for the low-end 27-inch iMac as opposed to the 5670 they might have used or the current 4670.

[flopticalcube]

$350 over the 5870 and 100W! No thanks. This is for Alienware-type monster laptops only!

[Eidorian]

I never said anything about the 5770, 4850, or 5850. This could be fine for the low-end 27-inch iMac as opposed to the 5670 they might have used or the current 4670.I'd investigate the GPUs that I previously stated a little more.

[Hellhammer]

I'd still take the Mobility HD 5850/5870.

Mobile 58xx are based on desktop 57xx so they aren't in fact that fast, 5850 is about as fast as the current 4850 used in iMacs. Anyway, noway iMac can house that GPU, current 4850 tops out at 65W, so 5870 is the only card that would provide an upgrade. nVidia is just pathetically trying to get rid of defective Fermis by selling them as mobile or weaker versions w.g. GTX 465 which is very bad card in terms of price and power. This could be little bit faster than 5870 but not by much, maybe around the same as the difference in desktop models (5870 vs 480), but mobile 5870 is 60W while this is 100W

[aiqw9182]

I'd investigate the GPUs that I previously stated a little more.

You mentioned a 5850 which is no better than the current 4850 being used.
You mentioned a 5870 which would likely be confused with the Mac Pro if it gets a 5870 as Apple doesn't advertise the iMacs as having mobile GPU's.
And you mentioned a 5770 which is worse than a 5850 and questionable in terms of comparison with the 480m just going by technical specifications.

Your point exactly?

[Dont Hurt Me]

Apple doesnt use brand spanking new gpu's in iMacs so the chance of this is 0.

[Hellhammer]

You mentioned a 5850 which is no better than the current 4850 being used.
You mentioned a 5870 which would likely be confused with the Mac Pro if it gets a 5870 as Apple doesn't advertise the iMacs as having mobile GPU's.
And you mentioned a 5770 which is worse than a 5850 and questionable in terms of comparison with the 480m just going by technical specifications.

Your point exactly?

I think he meant GTX 465 vs 5770, as this is pretty much comparable. 480M is mobile version of 465 with same specs but lower clocks and mobile 58xx series is based on desktop 57xx and desktop 5770 is just slightly worse than GTX 465 and 5770 is over 100$ less

[Eidorian]

Mobile 58xx are based on desktop 57xx so they aren't in fact that fast, 5850 is about as fast as the current 4850 used in iMacs. Anyway, noway iMac can house that GPU, current 4850 tops out at 65W, so 5870 is the only card that would provide an upgrade. nVidia is just pathetically trying to get rid of defective Fermis by selling them as mobile or weaker versions w.g. GTX 465 which is very bad card in terms of price and power. This could be little bit faster than 5870 but not by much, maybe around the same as the difference in desktop models (5870 vs 480), but mobile 5870 is 60W while this is 100WI can imagine Apple using the Mobility HD 5870 but labeling it as the HD 5770 to avoid mentioning "Mobility".

I have little hope from an underclocked and hot GTX 465. I'm waiting with some hope for the next GF104 revision.

[TMRaven]

Apple doesnt use brand spanking new gpu's in iMacs so the chance of this is 0.

I don't think that's entirely true. It's more along the lines of "apple releases their computers along cpu announcements, so their gpus always seem sort of dated."


My old G5 20 inch iMac had the most powerful mobile gpu on the market for its time if I remember right.

[Hellhammer]

I can imagine Apple using the Mobility HD 5870 but labeling it as the HD 5770 to avoid mentioning "Mobility".

Apple doesn't mention 4850 as mobile ;) calling it 5770 could cause issues with mid level graphics as Apple should use ATI 57xx to upgrade the 4670, 56xx series is about as slow as the 4670 anyway. Desktop 5770 can't really be used as it uses up to 108W, though Apple could underclock it but not sure would it fit anyway (at least not in the same format as desktop cards, maybe the chip only without fan)

Maybe Apple will just use nVidia in Mac Pro and forget the labeling and confusion issues. Hard to say

I have little hope from an underclocked and hot GTX 465. I'm waiting with some hope for the next GF104 revision.

That's the low/mid level graphics (430-50), right? I think they are nVidia's only chance now, they screwed up Fermi and ATI is clear winner so maybe they can still have hope in the mainstream market

[Eidorian]

I think he meant GTX 465 vs 5770, as this is pretty much comparable. 480M is mobile version of 465 with same specs but lower clocks and mobile 58xx series is based on desktop 57xx and desktop 5770 is just slightly worse than GTX 465 and 5770 is over 100$ lessThe GTX 465 should perform somewhere between the 5830 and 5850.

Apple doesn't mention 4850 as mobile ;) calling it 5770 could cause issues with mid level graphics as Apple should use ATI 57xx to upgrade the 4670, 56xx series is about as slow as the 4670 anyway. Desktop 5770 can't really be used as it uses up to 108W, though Apple could underclock it but not sure would it fit anyway (at least not in the same format as desktop cards, maybe the chip only without fan)

Maybe Apple will just use nVidia in Mac Pro and forget the labeling and confusion issues. Hard to sayThe HD 2400XT, 2600 Pro, and 8800GS were all mobile GPUs that Apple labeled as desktop ones.



That's the low/mid level graphics (430-50), right? I think they are nVidia's only chance now, they screwed up Fermi and ATI is clear winner so maybe they can still have hope in the mainstream marketThe GF104 is for the 440/450/460 cards. The smaller die and power optimizations should hopefully make it a good competitor against the HD 56xx - 57xx desktop line up.

[Hellhammer]

The GTX 465 should perform somewhere between the 5830 and 5850.

5850 easily outperforms it (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-gtx-465_3.html#sect1) and it's only 20$ more. Not sure about 5830 though but 465 isn't looking any better than other 4xx series

The HD 2400XT, 2600 Pro, and 8800GS were all mobile GPUs that Apple labeled as desktop ones.

What was the last time Apple actually called them mobile (other than 9400M)? Not for few years

The GF104 is for the 440/450/460 cards. The smaller die and power optimizations should hopefully make it a good competitor against the HD 56xx - 57xx desktop line up.

Hopefully yea. ATI is already concentrating on Northern Islands though so nVIdia is really behind now, they have to do something.

[macuserx86]

Temperatures hotter than the surface of the sun... iMac bound?

FTFY

Fermi in an iMac would end up in disaster.

[Eidorian]

What was the last time Apple actually called them mobile (other than 9400M)? Not for few years.The 9400M is the only admission to using a mobile GPU. Otherwise it's up to us to learn the true identity in most cases.

Hopefully yea. ATI is already concentrating on Northern Islands though so nVIdia is really behind now, they have to do something.Northen Islands has been delayed and replaced with Southern Islands on the roadmap. Southern Islands takes the current Evergreen shader core with a Northern Islands uncore. It's going to be in 40nm and larger than current Evergreen dies. I expect more power savings but not so much more performance.

[Hellhammer]

Northen Islands has been delayed and replaced with Southern Islands on the roadmap. Southern Islands takes the current Evergreen shader core with a Northern Islands uncore. It's going to be in 40nm and larger than current Evergreen dies. I expect more power savings but not so much more performance.

You know these things so I can't argue with you :p Do you have a link? Would be interesting to read about it. Power efficiency and cheaper prices always mean better performance, maybe not per die but especially in desktops where you can CF cards. Any news on when Northern Islands will come then? Late 2011?

[Eidorian]

You know these things so I can't argue with you :p Do you have a link? Would be interesting to read about it. Power efficiency and cheaper prices always mean better performance, maybe not per die but especially in desktops where you can CF cards. Any news on when Northern Islands will come then? Late 2011?http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20100330171348_ATI_Reportedly_Preps_Southern_Islands_Family_of_Graphics_Chips.html

28nm looks like a lost cause right now. Global Foundries might be able to pull something together in early 2011 though. Bulk 40nm is going to be AMD and ATI's strongest process node well into 2011 otherwise.

Southern Islands should show up by Q4 2010. It's not that far off to be honest.

[Hellhammer]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20100330171348_ATI_Reportedly_Preps_Southern_Islands_Family_of_Graphics_Chips.html

28nm looks like a lost cause right now. Global Foundries might be able to pull something together in early 2011 though. Bulk 40nm is going to be AMD and ATI's strongest process node well into 2011 otherwise.

Southern Islands should show up by Q4 2010. It's not that far off to be honest.

ATI won the high-end 40nm round so I doubt they have much hurry on 28nm. If TSMC is having as much issues with 28nm as they have/did with 40nm, it'll be well into H2 2011, maybe even 2012 for real release, not just couple thousand chips.

BTW, do you have any idea is ATI developing something similar to Optimus?

[Eidorian]

ATI won the high-end 40nm round so I doubt they have much hurry on 28nm. If TSMC is having as much issues with 28nm as they have/did with 40nm, it'll be well into H2 2011, maybe even 2012 for real release, not just couple thousand chips.I believe that AMD is going to rely much more heavily on their Global Foundries spin off for 32/28nm.

TSMC should be providing additional bulk 40nm for the foreseeable future though. They shouldn't be hampering AMD much more.

Southern Islands is a stopgap with a refined architecture. Northern Islands was going to be the next major change. It was also surprising to see certain AMD next generation processors getting binned to bulk 40nm as well. They're going to save 32/28nm for the more lucrative parts.

BTW, do you have any idea is ATI developing something similar to Optimus?I haven't heard much beyond manually switchable Intel/ATI graphics on HP. You have to close certain applications while the driver resets to the alternate GPU or back to the IGP. It is a feature that ATI needs to provide.

[Hellhammer]

I believe that AMD is going to rely much more heavily on their Global Foundries spin off for 32/28nm.

TSMC should be providing additional bulk 40nm for the foreseeable future though. They shouldn't be hampering AMD much more.

Southern Islands is a stopgap with a refined architecture. Northern Islands was going to be the next major change. It was also surprising to see certain AMD next generation processors getting binned to bulk 40nm as well. They're going to save 32/28nm for the more lucrative parts.

Again, you know more than me, getting confused by all these TSMCs and GFs.

So SN will be more like a small update with lower TDPs and maybe prices? Then late 2011 at the earliest, Northern Islands and next big update (like 4xxx -> 5xxx) with new manufacturing process (32/28nm)?

I haven't heard much beyond manually switchable Intel/ATI graphics on HP. You have to close certain applications while the driver resets to the alternate GPU or back to the IGP. It is a feature that ATI needs to provide.

Yeah, ATI seriously needs to come up with something like Optimus. nVidia seems to be the dominator in mobile market though

[Eidorian]

Again, you know more than me, getting confused by all these TSMCs and GFs.They're both semiconductor foundries. AMD is a parent of Global Foundries.


So SN will be more like a small update with lower TDPs and maybe prices? Then late 2011 at the earliest, Northern Islands and next big update (like 4xxx -> 5xxx) with new manufacturing process (32/28nm)?I don't expect lower prices if ATI is comfortable with their lead over nVidia and a possible larger die. Just expect better performance and lower idle power at the same price points from newer parts. There is nothing exceptionally surprising there.


Yeah, ATI seriously needs to come up with something like Optimus. nVidia seems to be the dominator in mobile market thoughI agree.