Is Apple ending Mac Pro product line? [Archive]

costabunny

May 27, 2010, 10:54 AM

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 11:00 AM

Did you really need to make a new thread for your rant?

Use the search function next time. Plenty of threads already exists regarding this topic.

It was necessary.

Hopefully Android will migrate to desktop OS next. I'd love to have another UNIX-based-developer-friendly-yet-also-consumer-friendly to compete with Apple's desktop OSes.

It could happen! Android is just Linux underneath and Android has gone from phone -> tablet -> tv ... laptop/desktop while hopefully be next.

This whole 1.5 year between update debacle has almost got me considering going back to Linux. I just hate the dearth of consumer software for it.

hoj

May 27, 2010, 11:07 AM

...
This whole 1.5 year between update debacle has almost got me considering going back to Linux. I just hate the dearth of consumer software for it.

Me too. I use Linux at work and it runs well.

calderone

May 27, 2010, 11:18 AM

Why does it need to be the latest tech to be a pro machine? in many other areas the pro level models are never the very latest - Pro usually indicates build and reliability rather than latest (as yet not fully field tested) technology.

Pro users usually need something that does the job day-in and day-out without worrying about issues. The Mac Pro does that pretty well.

Besides the current Mac Pro does indeed kick serious behind (Xenon's etc) - maybe its the prosumers who are moaning more as they are the ones who seem to think you have to have the latest to be considered a 'pro'.

Heck my Power Mac G4 still does all my photoshop work without issue; (ok I'd like it to be a little quicker, but I don't need it to be), and she is 10 years old now.

just my five pence worth :)

It is just hardware lust. They don't need it, hell they probably don't need a Mac Pro.

But, since they feel they need one, it has to have the most recent hardware or it is a piece of crap apparently. While they sit around whining on the forums, I will be using my ancient 2008 Mac Pro which is making me money.

I really don't get it.

LANz

May 27, 2010, 11:21 AM

Could this loooong wait just not mean a new case design etc?
Okey I´m hoping it does, and would like anyone to fuel my delusion.

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 11:24 AM

It is just hardware lust. They don't need it, hell they probably don't need a Mac Pro.

But, since they feel they need one, it has to have the most recent hardware or it is a piece of crap apparently. While they sit around whining on the forums, I will be using my ancient 2008 Mac Pro which is making me money.

I really don't get it.

Just because your workloads & workflows are not CPU- or I/O-limited doesn't mean everyone's is. I know mine certainly are.

calderone

May 27, 2010, 11:24 AM

Could this loooong wait just not mean a new case design etc?
Okey I´m hoping it does, and would like anyone to fuel my delusion.

The was a much longer wait between the 06 and 08 Mac Pro. No case update there.

But, what is wrong with the case? Just itching for something that looks "new," huh? How else will people know you have the latest!? :rolleyes:

Just because your workloads & workflows are not CPU- or I/O-limited doesn't mean everyone's is. I know mine certainly are.

I am sure those 09 Pros are really holding you back. But hey, that marginal update should take care of all your problems right!?

rajbonham

May 27, 2010, 11:33 AM

The was a much longer wait between the 06 and 08 Mac Pro. No case update there.

But, what is wrong with the case? Just itching for something that looks "new," huh? How else will people know you have the latest!? :rolleyes:

I am sure those 09 Pros are really holding you back. But hey, that marginal update should take care of all your problems right!?

Before you make your repeated "witty" remarks, maybe you should actually read why most of us want the new, updated models. We aren't all looking to just show off our shiny new Mac Pro with the latest tecnology, we just don't want to be robbed!

For me, it has nothing to do with the hardware, but the price of it. I would gladly buy a current Mac Pro right now, if the price were a little reasonable. The prices of the components have dropped, so why haven't the prices of the current Mac Pros?

I will be making money with my Mac Pro, but why give Apple extra money, purely for profit, when I could use that to buy a nicer monitor, etc.? You seem to have the idea that we are all a bunch of teenagers, who just want to show off and play video games on our Mac Pro. You couldn't be more wrong...

calderone

May 27, 2010, 11:41 AM

Before you make your repeated "witty" remarks, maybe you should actually read why most of us want the new, updated models. We aren't all looking to just show off our shiny new Mac Pro with the latest tecnology, we just don't want to be robbed!

For me, it has nothing to do with the hardware, but the price of it. I would gladly buy a current Mac Pro right now, if the price were a little reasonable. The prices of the components have dropped, so why haven't the prices of the current Mac Pros?

I will be making money with my Mac Pro, but why give Apple extra money, purely for profit, when I could use that to buy a nicer monitor, etc.? You seem to have the idea that we are all a bunch of teenagers, who just want to show off and play video games on our Mac Pro. You couldn't be more wrong...

Maybe you should read what I replied to, someone asking if there would be a case update.

You aren't' stating anything new here. Apple has never dropped prices on hardware like that. Why expect it now?

Why give Apple extra money? Well, no one is saying you have to are they? Buy that nicer monitor instead.

I don't think you are a bunch of teenagers. You can be any age for all I care, however, lusting after hardware will always be pointless since there will always be something better around the corner.

I agree that people shouldn't buy now unless they have to, but what is the point of all this whining and sensational statements like the title of this thread? It will be updated someday, until then you are free to buy or not buy. Nothing wrong with discussing the hardware it may contain, but whining or threatening not to buy Apple products isn't going to make it show up any faster.

gotzero

May 27, 2010, 11:44 AM

Please delete or modify posts like this with (grossly uniformed) speculation stated as fact. I want to bill the OP for my fifteen seconds...

calderone

May 27, 2010, 11:46 AM

Please delete or modify posts like this with (grossly uniformed) speculation stated as fact. I want to bill the OP for my fifteen seconds...

Don't overcharge, otherwise there will be a new thread about how you charge too much or possibly how it seems foolish to pay for your outdated time.

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 11:47 AM

I am sure those 09 Pros are really holding you back. But hey, that marginal update should take care of all your problems right!?

I have an 08 Mac Pro. Like I'm going to go out and buy a stupendously overpriced, 450-day old 09 Mac Pro. Try to think before you post.

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 11:49 AM

Please delete or modify posts like this with (grossly uniformed) speculation stated as fact. I want to bill the OP for my fifteen seconds...

Only if I can bill you for reading your pointless response.

(I did edit it and rephrased it as a question though.)

calderone

May 27, 2010, 11:50 AM

I have an 08 Mac Pro. Like I'm going to go out and buy a stupendously overpriced, 450-day old 09 Mac Pro. Try to think before you post.

How am I supposed to know what you own? Or deduce it from your whining?

Hell, since you are whining about power I took that to mean you already had the latest. So let me get this straight. There is a more powerful machine available right now, but you are going to whine about a lack of power. Please. Maybe you should be thinking before you post.

If you are making money with these machines, it shouldn't matter how much its costs. And there is nothing to say you couldn't have bought the 09 200 days ago, or when it was released.

As I have said, I agree there is no point in buying now unless you need. But what is the point of this sensational threads?

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 11:53 AM

How am I supposed to know what you own? Or deduce it from your whining?

If you are making money with these machines, it shouldn't matter how much its costs.

Again, try to think before you post.

calderone

May 27, 2010, 11:54 AM

Again, try to think before you post.

Read: I have nothing intelligent to say, so I am going to belittle you.

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 11:58 AM

Read: I have nothing intelligent to say, so I am going to belittle you.

No, I just think that anyone who spends a little time thinking about it can easily reach the conclusion that a lot of people do not want to spend money buying a '09 Mac Pro at the moment. But to be honest, I do not think you are that stupid, I think you are just trolling the thread.

I don't understand why people feel the need to defend Apple's ridiculous upgrade cycle on the current Mac Pros.

gotzero

May 27, 2010, 11:58 AM

The Mac Pro so far has a pattern of updating each time a new class of Xeon processors is available in quantity. Would you rather Apple offer an "update" but have a three month wait time to fill it? Apple is at the mercy of Intel and other suppliers.

Just because Apple is giving a lot of attention to their mass market products, it does not mean that they are going to abandon the high end. Like any manufacturer, the fantasy products are always going to exist.

Thank you for changing your thread title.

PS - My 2008 MPs still scream for me. If 2009 MPs/XServes are not enough for you, why stick to OSX at all? Not trying to troll at all, but you can pull a tremendous amount out of an MP and a few XServes.

bocomo

May 27, 2010, 12:01 PM

calderone

May 27, 2010, 12:03 PM

No, I just think that anyone who spends a little time thinking about it can easily reach the conclusion that a lot of people do not want to spend money buying a '09 Mac Pro at the moment. But to be honest, I do not think you are that stupid, I think you are just trolling the thread.

I don't understand why people feel the need to defend Apple's ridiculous upgrade cycle on the current Mac Pros.

Wait wait. I have already stated that it doesn't make sense to buy the 09 unless you need it. And I stated it before your replied to me. So, try again.

Apple's upgrade cycle is Apple's upgrade cycle (and is mainly based on Intel's upgrade cycle). It has been this way for a long time. It is ridiculous to whine about it over and over again. Yes, it is outdated, so don't buy it. And don't post these troll threads stating as fact that Apple is ending the Mac Pro line.

bocomo

May 27, 2010, 12:05 PM

I have an 08 Mac Pro. Like I'm going to go out and buy a stupendously overpriced, 450-day old 09 Mac Pro. Try to think before you post.

in what way is your 08 holding you back?

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 12:08 PM

Wait wait. I have already stated that it doesn't make sense to buy the 09 unless you need it. And I stated it before your replied to me. So, try again.

Apple's upgrade cycle is Apple's upgrade cycle (and is mainly based on Intel's upgrade cycle). It has been this way for a long time. It is ridiculous to whine about it over and over again. Yes, it is outdated, so don't buy it. And don't post these troll threads stating as fact that Apple is ending the Mac Pro line.

I await the day when there is a competitive developer/consumer UNIX offering so that I no longer need to deal with this nonsense. But until then, I will continue to be extremely annoyed with any update schedules that exceed one year.

And I will continue to raise this issue as it is a legitimate gripe and if Apple sees enough of their user base upset about it it is at least conceivably possible that they will do something about it. When Mac Pro users complained about the audio issues loudly enough Apple finally did something about it.

If raising legitimate issues bothers you you are more than welcome to not waste your time on this thread.

xgman

May 27, 2010, 12:10 PM

couldn't have said it better
it seems like just gamers and kids complaining

Gamers? Kids? :rolleyes:

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 12:11 PM

in what way is your 08 holding you back?

It's slow. My workflow is very CPU and I/O intensive.

calderone

May 27, 2010, 12:18 PM

I await the day when there is a competitive developer/consumer UNIX offering so that I no longer need to deal with this nonsense. But until then, I will continue to be extremely annoyed with any update schedules that exceed one year.

And I will continue to raise this issue as it is a legitimate gripe and if Apple sees enough of their user base upset about it it is at least conceivably possible that they will do something about it. When Mac Pro users complained about the audio issues loudly enough Apple finally did something about it.

If raising legitimate issues bothers you you are more than welcome to not waste your time on this thread.

And those UNIX offerings will be tied to the same cycle as Apple. If there is nothing available, what are they going to update with? Or a better question is, if there isn't enough available what are they going to do?

Even if they see that their user base is upset, what can they do about it? How about they put a new hard drive in it and slap a new badge on it in the store? Is that enough for you?

Yes, Apple fixed the audio issue that affected their current user base. Not the "I will buy when it is updated user base." Fixing the audio issue is what they are supposed to do. Updating a machine because it is exceeds the maximum amount of time you are willing to wait is not and should not be a concern.

You aren't raising any concern that hasn't been raised before. The only difference is that you initially decided to post a troll thread phrasing your title as a fact, which you later changed.

In addition, your "concern" has no basis in reality. The length between updates has been shown to not be an indication that a product with be EOL'ed. The Mac Pro, the Mac Mini and the Cinema Displays are evidence of this. If you would have thought before you posted, you would have been able to figure this out and you would have known that Apple would not be ending the Mac Pro line, or at least that the cycle length is no indication of that.

Yet, you knew exactly what you were doing, you wanted to post a sensational thread based on no evidence. Who is the troll here?

dimensional

May 27, 2010, 12:27 PM

And those UNIX offerings will be tied to the same cycle as Apple. If there is nothing available, what are they going to update with? Or a better question is, if there isn't enough available what are they going to do?

One obvious thing to do would be to reduce the price of the 09 models.

Other obvious solutions would be to create a desktop line that isn't Xeon-based.

I say these are obvious solutions because this is what all their competitors do.

You aren't raising any concern that hasn't been raised before. The only difference is that you initially decided to post a troll thread phrasing your title as a fact, which you later changed.

Yet, you knew exactly what you were doing, you wanted to post a sensational thread based on no evidence. Who is the troll here?

Yes, I was trolling Apple the company. Like many lately, I'm extremely upset with Apple. And this issue is thoroughly legitimate.

calderone

May 27, 2010, 12:38 PM

One obvious thing to do would be to reduce the price of the 09 models.

Apple has never done this with the Mac Pro.

Other obvious solutions would be to create a desktop line that isn't Xeon-based.

Who is to say Apple won't do this? That would come with the update though, wouldn't?

I say these are obvious solutions because this is what all their competitors do.

When has Apple ever followed what their competitors are doing?

Yes, I was trolling Apple the company. Like many lately, I'm extremely upset with Apple. And this issue is thoroughly legitimate.

At least you admitted to trolling. And your "issue" isn't legitimate, as I pointed out. Even if Apple does drop the Pro line, why do you care? Apple's competitors seem to have better equipment at better prices with faster update cycles, it is a mystery why you are sticking with Apple at all.

gotzero

May 27, 2010, 01:19 PM

One obvious thing to do would be to reduce the price of the 09 models.

Other obvious solutions would be to create a desktop line that isn't Xeon-based.

I say these are obvious solutions because this is what all their competitors do.

Yes, I was trolling Apple the company. Like many lately, I'm extremely upset with Apple. And this issue is thoroughly legitimate.

How will lowering the price make it any faster? You were initially unhappy about I/O and CPU. How will not using Xeons make it any faster? If you are choking Xeons, then i7 offerings are not going to help. Right now, individual core speeds hardly seem to matter. If need more crunching power, you have to go parallel, and then it is cluster time and all of the fun that comes with that.

Icaras

May 27, 2010, 01:33 PM

How will lowering the price make it any faster? You were initially unhappy about I/O and CPU. How will not using Xeons make it any faster? If you are choking Xeons, then i7 offerings are not going to help. Right now, individual core speeds hardly seem to matter. If need more crunching power, you have to go parallel, and then it is cluster time and all of the fun that comes with that.

If I recall, I don't think he had any criticisms over the 09's performance. He was particularly unhappy with his 08 model.

Value is always a valid argument here, and at 450 days, 09 is just basking in the high margins here for Apple.

666sheep

May 27, 2010, 01:49 PM

Other obvious solutions would be to create a desktop line that isn't Xeon-based.

There are two: iMac and Mini line. Each one with very limited upgrade abilities.

Seems to me, that introducing something based on consumer CPUs and upgradeable like MP, would be "shot in the knee" of MP line.

They aren't that stupid, i think ;)

Cavepainter

May 27, 2010, 02:50 PM

If you are making money with these machines, it shouldn't matter how much its costs.

Try telling your boss this. Then watch his expression.:D

BobHail

May 27, 2010, 02:50 PM

MacsRgr8

May 27, 2010, 03:05 PM

Why not email Steve Jobs asking about the Mac Pro's future?

Wouldn't surprise me that a mail "Is Apple going to discontinue the Mac Pro"? will be answered by Steve with "We have gr8 products coming this year"

Leaving us speculating even more heavily if they will or will not be discontinued... :p

Despite this being a very, very long time since we got an upgrade, I still believe Apple want's to deliver a workstation-class computer. I just think Apple is very picky choosing which CPU's, GPU's "new" technologies (USB 3, Lightpeak, FireWire 3200) should or should not be integrated in the new Mac Pro.
Maybe a prototype Mac Pro has already been finalised, but manufacturing axed due to some sort of malfunction, or maybe the obvious 6-core dual CPU config didn't work well with FCS.. I don't know!
(Is there no Vietnamese site in the know...?)

I just hope Steve will say something about it during coming WWDC.
In the meantime the "obvious" price reduction should be justified. I know Apple have never done the Mac Pro price reduction, and presumably these Macs sales aren't doing that bad... :rolleyes:

Keep your hopes up!
I am... :o

calderone

May 27, 2010, 03:05 PM

Is it so freaking hard to understand that the Mac Pros we have today just isn´t powerful enough for some?

Is it so hard to understand that the Mac Pro available today is the only thing available? If it isn't fast enough, then it isn't fast enough. Whining and posting ridiculous threads about how the Mac Pro will be ending is pointless and disingenuous.

Now I have to ask, will the next Mac Pro be powerful enough for you? If the current is not, why would you assume that a marginal update would magically satisfy all of your problems?

There will always be something faster. If you want to wait, wait. But don't pretend as if the current machines are worthless.

deconstruct60

May 27, 2010, 03:13 PM

One obvious thing to do would be to reduce the price of the 09 models.

Why? Intel hasn't dropped their quoted Xeon prices.

The 5500 series:

http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?series=39565

(e.g., 5520 $373 )

The 5600 series:
http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?series=47915
(e.g., 5620 $387 )

What Intel did was intro the follow on series of CPUs at slightly higher prices. So that component cost didn't go down. Yeah, hard disk and memory prices may have gone down a bit, but what else has dropped significantly in price ? Any other PC vendors radically drop the prices on old Xeon Workstation configs ?

Apple could shrink their margins, but that is only incentive for the stock price to go down. I doubt they are inclined to go with that option.

As long as Apple can adjust their just-in-time production to keep the inventory of Mac Pros at a relatively constant level they can shrink the supply about as fast as the demand may drop. That keeps the price constant.

There would have to be a radical drop off in demand to get Apple to start pushing price cuts. That won't happen for a while. There may be lots of folks grumbling but most are playing the waiting game.

Other obvious solutions would be to create a desktop line that isn't Xeon-based.

It is called iMac. Apple's position is that solution already exists.
Have an old desktop with an external monitor want to keep? For many, a new higher end iMac and plug in the monitor will work. Now have two monitors and faster machine than 4-5 year old machine for sure. If wanted to replace monitor anyway just have one in new set-up just like old one.

For the folks that misses. If having a tower makes you $50 more productive a month, then in two years that's $1,200. There is you gap between a $1,400 WinPC and a MacPro. If you don't really need Mac OSX then assign that $1,200 to something else. Apple's bet is that you value their set-up that much more.

All the protests of doom and gloom if Apple doesn't provide a mini-tower don't really have much empirical evidence to back that up. Yeah there are folks leaving due to unmet needs. However, there are at least just as many coming in because the solutions do fit.

I say these are obvious solutions because this is what all their competitors do.

Unless you can find a win-win for both customers and Apple you're going to be hard pressed to get them to change their tactics. Much of the "need mini tower" discussions are driven more so by a "win" for the customer than a "win" for Apple. It usually amounts to Apple should take a lower profit and cannibalize more of their own product lines so that the customer can 'win' than something positive for both sides.

BobHail

May 27, 2010, 03:18 PM

Is it so hard to understand that the Mac Pro available today is the only thing available? If it isn't fast enough, then it isn't fast enough. Whining and posting ridiculous threads about how the Mac Pro will be ending is pointless and disingenuous.

Now I have to ask, will the next Mac Pro be powerful enough for you? If the current is not, why would you assume that a marginal update would magically satisfy all of your problems?

I don´t know that, I´ll know when I get one. Could be enough (doubt it) or not. If not, it certainly will be more powerful and any what you would call "marginal update" helps me to work faster and when I save time, I save money. Of course I hope it´s more than marginal update.

There will always be something faster. If you want to wait, wait. But don't pretend as if the current machines are worthless.

Of course it´s not worthless. I work with it everyday, but I could be working much much MUCH faster, if I had more horsepower.

calderone

May 27, 2010, 03:22 PM

I´m just saying like it is. Don´t make dumb comments and you won´t be called dumb. It really is that simple.

Do tell how my comment was 'dumb.'

I don´t know that, I´ll know when I get one. Could be enough (doubt it) or not. If not, it certainly will be more powerful and any what you would call "marginal update" helps me to work faster and when I save time, I save money. Of course I hope it´s more than marginal update.

So, you don't know that you will be getting much more power.

Of course it´s not worthless. I work with it everyday, but I could be working much much MUCH faster, if I had more horsepower.

As technology advances you will always be able to work faster. However, there is nothing faster from Apple right now. So what is the point of posting threads about how the Mac Pro will be EOL'ed?

deconstruct60

May 27, 2010, 03:52 PM

Right now, individual core speeds hardly seem to matter. If need more crunching power, you have to go parallel, and then it is cluster time and all of the fun that comes with that.

Depends upon the workload. Some folks who grumble about expensive Mac Pros really want to use them with workloads that don't parallelize or with software which won't be rewritten to "go wide" as it is primarily targeted at machines with fewer cores.

If going wide at price effective prices was the issue then Apple should consider going with AMD. The AMD 8 and 12 core options (6100 series) cost as much (or less ) as the Intel 6 core ones.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/pricing/Pages/server-opteron.aspx

They probably won't. That contributes to why the Xeon prices are still sky high for year old tech.

the editor

May 27, 2010, 03:54 PM

here's an official word :D

for fun i just mailed guessing i won't get a reply but hey...

question:
Is is true that Apple is ending the Mac Pro Product line ? i was reading this on different forums!

Awnser:

No, not true.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 27, 2010, at 7:36 AM, ....

deconstruct60

May 27, 2010, 04:00 PM

I work with it everyday, but I could be working much much MUCH faster, if I had more horsepower.

Only if it is still a balanced system. If go from being bottlenecked on cores to being bottlenecked on I/O only going to get incrementally faster. For some that will work out. For others though it will be bringing more cores in to a lower price range more so than getting huge increases in speed over extended periods of time.

fearoftigers

May 27, 2010, 04:01 PM

For me the performance of a top spec 27", 16gb imac is enough power for my 64 bit music applications but....

My imac died after just 2 weeks. I think that product line is a lemon but my alternative Mac Pro is about £1000 more for a less powerful machine.

This is why Apple need to upgrade.

Gomff

May 27, 2010, 06:06 PM

Just because your workloads & workflows are not CPU- or I/O-limited doesn't mean everyone's is. I know mine certainly are.

Out of curiosity, what is your work-flow?

I do 3d graphics and animation on my 2008 MP and it's a beast. The Nehalems would improve render times by about 10-20% tops, depending on which CPU you compare my system to. As a rule, I don't consider an upgrade worth the outlay unless I get speed bump of at least 50% (but really I tend to wait for double the speed) so I guess I'll be using my current system for a while yet.

Not being critical BTW, just curious....I thought I was demanding about system specs.

wesk702

May 28, 2010, 04:54 AM

That's nothing.

I waited 514 days for my 2008 Mac Pro. You still have another two months!
Ahhh, I still remember those days of posting in the immensely-large "2008 Mac Pro Speculation" thread. :)

Ahh the good ole days.
I still love my 08MP.
BUT WHERE THE F* IS THE NEW MAC PROS!!!!!!!!!!!!

.Joel

May 28, 2010, 07:24 AM

It's supposed to be THE pro machine - keeping up with current technologies. Not something that is a year and a half old and still being touted as the latest and greatest!

Absolute bollox. A "Pro" machine is meant to be stable, proven and tried technology. Not bleeding edge, unstable and no defined direction.

Same reason nobody that works in a serious environment updates to the latest OS whether it be Server or Desktop until at least a couple of OSX patches in.

Anyone with half a brain would know that, actually let me correct that, anyone with a quarter of the brain capacity of a chimp would know that.

Regards,

.Joel

linuxcooldude

May 28, 2010, 07:39 AM

Absolute bollox. A "Pro" machine is meant to be stable, proven and tried technology. Not bleeding edge, unstable and no defined direction.

Same reason nobody that works in a serious environment updates to the latest OS whether it be Server or Desktop until at least a couple of OSX patches in.

Anyone with half a brain would know that, actually let me correct that, anyone with a quarter of the brain capacity of a chimp would know that.

Regards,

.Joel

Agreed, a Mac Pro is a workstation designed for commercial business. Latest and greatest is not the primary propose of this type of computer. Running for long periods of time without crashing or corrupting data.

mcpryon2

May 28, 2010, 08:41 AM

Absolute bollox. A "Pro" machine is meant to be stable, proven and tried technology. Not bleeding edge, unstable and no defined direction.

Same reason nobody that works in a serious environment updates to the latest OS whether it be Server or Desktop until at least a couple of OSX patches in.

Anyone with half a brain would know that, actually let me correct that, anyone with a quarter of the brain capacity of a chimp would know that.

Regards,

.Joel

I have to agree with this post. I'll take Pro Tools on an 08 MP with no hesitations. There's a point where "good enough" is good enough. When I say this I'm thinking of all of the radio stations I know of that still use Cool Edit 2; it worked great and it still does the job.

Sure, some people will always want new tech, but there is a ton of stuff the "old" MPs can still do, and do well. Though it's hard to fault somebody for wanting updated technology or lower prices...

Aldaris

May 28, 2010, 09:20 AM

I have to agree with this post. I'll take Pro Tools on an 08 MP with no hesitations. There's a point where "good enough" is good enough. When I say this I'm thinking of all of the radio stations I know of that still use Cool Edit 2; it worked great and it still does the job.

Sure, some people will always want new tech, but there is a ton of stuff the "old" MPs can still do, and do well. Though it's hard to fault somebody for wanting updated technology or lower prices...

Exactly where I'm at:)

Grimace

May 28, 2010, 09:23 AM

Agreed, a Mac Pro is a workstation designed for commercial business. Latest and greatest is not the primary propose of this type of computer. Running for long periods of time without crashing or corrupting data.

Finally, some sense!

OP, you should get to know the product better and its cycles; this interlude won't seem nearly as long.

xgman

May 28, 2010, 10:13 AM

xgman

May 28, 2010, 10:15 AM

mBox

May 28, 2010, 10:17 AM

been there, done that, (a few times) . . .nada . . It's like a black hole. .It would be cool with this reply..."yes new things are coming, were also adding a copy of Autodesk Maya 2011 with the new Quadro FX6100 2TB Display card..."...
Hey I can dream a little ;)

slughead

May 28, 2010, 06:56 PM

We aren't all looking to just show off our shiny new Mac Pro with the latest tecnology, we just don't want to be robbed!

You ungrateful heathen! You'll buy overpriced obsolete machines and YOU'LL LIKE IT!!

Sun Baked

May 28, 2010, 07:16 PM

I don't think anything but a spec change, and maybe a new GPU ...

Looks like Patsburg and Sandy Bridge E are a ways off yet, 2011, so wait til next year.

If the chipset still requires active cooling, a new case design likely will be introduced.

linuxcooldude

May 28, 2010, 08:14 PM

I find it interesting how many childish comments are being made within a thread about a "pro" line of computers. For all of those who feel the need to attack those who are anxiously awaiting an upgrade i simply ask, "why do you even care?" :confused:

Childish goes both ways. Not really an attack, but rather a voice of reason, often for preposterous claims.

Techhie

May 29, 2010, 01:05 AM

You ungrateful heathen! You'll buy overpriced obsolete machines and YOU'LL LIKE IT!!

That's what I feel like I'm being told by Cupertino. People may say OS X-based pros have other options, but most of them don't.

I don't understand why being professional equates to mindless business decisions. I know that the current machines are obsolete and overpriced, therefore I will wait to get a better value for my money...which, contrary to some views in this thread, is not in unlimited supply.

As for the "bleeding edge isn't the point" argument, I can agree, however it must be noted that new MP buyers will hardly be guinea pigs, considering they will be using processors and parts engineered for stability on what is likely to be the same logic board design.

rajbonham

May 29, 2010, 02:49 AM

That's what I feel like I'm being told by Cupertino. People may say OS X-based pros have other options, but most of them don't.

I don't understand why being professional equates to mindless business decisions. I know that the current machines are obsolete and overpriced, therefore I will wait to get a better value for my money...which, contrary to some views in this thread, is not in unlimited supply.

As for the "bleeding edge isn't the point" argument, I can agree, however it must be noted that new MP buyers will hardly be guinea pigs, considering they will be using processors and parts engineered for stability on what is likely to be the same logic board design.

:) Excellent post.

JesterJJZ

May 29, 2010, 03:18 AM

parakiet

May 29, 2010, 03:18 AM

Agreed, a Mac Pro is a workstation designed for commercial business. Latest and greatest is not the primary propose of this type of computer. Running for long periods of time without crashing or corrupting data.

did you ever read the mac pro pages on apples website?

'Introducing the new Mac Pro'

'Next-generation Intel architecture.'

'..the new Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Nehalem” processor boosts performance nearly 2x.'

'A completely new interior makes it even easier to add up to 32GB of memory..'

'Powerful AMD and NVIDIA graphics cards provide the fastest-ever Mac graphics'

that whole page is aimed at 'new' and 'fast'

TennisandMusic

May 29, 2010, 03:29 AM

Absolute bollox. A "Pro" machine is meant to be stable, proven and tried technology. Not bleeding edge, unstable and no defined direction.

Same reason nobody that works in a serious environment updates to the latest OS whether it be Server or Desktop until at least a couple of OSX patches in.

Anyone with half a brain would know that, actually let me correct that, anyone with a quarter of the brain capacity of a chimp would know that.

Regards,

.Joel

Well surely you realize workstation class parts are engineered to be "stable" and "proven". Every PC I have made for myself, which generally use "enthusiast" parts run rock solid, 24 hours a day, even under stressful loads (such as HD rendering and processing, programming, whatever).

What you said above sounds like a license for Apple to produce subpar machines, so we can pay a premium for them, and thank them profusely for the opportunity to do so.

TennisandMusic

May 29, 2010, 03:33 AM

did you ever read the mac pro pages on apples website?

'Introducing the new Mac Pro'

'Next-generation Intel architecture.'

'..the new Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Nehalem” processor boosts performance nearly 2x.'

'A completely new interior makes it even easier to add up to 32GB of memory..'

'Powerful AMD and NVIDIA graphics cards provide the fastest-ever Mac graphics'

that whole page is aimed at 'new' and 'fast'

Some people just don't get it though. They don't really have an understanding of hardware, and so just either make things up, or tow the line (even if it's an imagined one and not really congruent with Apple's marketing). Now, I certainly don't hold that against people, there are plenty of topics I am ignorant on. However if one is ignorant on a topic, they shouldn't go around pedantically lecturing about it either.

akdj

May 29, 2010, 04:28 AM

Seems like the OP has disappeared.

I, too, run an '08 MP, 3ghz (8 core)...plenty of RAM and HDD space.

I guess I thought that was the point of the MP...it IS upgradable. If you're in to gaming, you can run Windows through BootCamp and use any graphics card you choose. Also, HDD tech has improved with size and speed...most PCI/PCI Express peripherals will plug right in, including most of the audio and video capture cards.

I'm really, genuinely curious what the OP's workflow is that is so demanding. All I do with mine is processor intensive video work and 3D modeling. We've mixed down plenty of 60 track+ masters...and I'm more than satisfied with the speed of mine.

If there was one concern I'd like addressed, it's the lack of current graphics choices for OSX. Seems like I've read Nvidia and Apple are in cahoots...maybe that has a roll to play. But it would sure be nice, especially with the boost in sales for Mac products, for ATI and nVidia to release "Mac" certified cards once in a while:) Guess the MP market is insignificant enough, this may be a waste of time and resources...and of course, money for the GFX manufacturers.

Other than the advances in graphics and DDR3 RAM, there hasn't been a significant advance in processing...as has been mentioned a couple times in this thread. Hence, the reason we've been waiting, I'm sure. Even the Nahalem upgrade was insignificant for most "single" core optimized software compared to the '08s.

We are still at the mercy of the software developers to continue to program 64bit and multi-core optimized products. Adobe has made the move (including Apple, this time) with the CS5 suite...and hopefully more will follow suit. We've had multi-core processors on the market for a while now!

Again, to the OP...truly, WHAT in the WORLD are you struggling with on your
08 MP that a 400 dollar RAM upgrade or SSD won't fix? Possibly we can help you optimize your system so as not to waste so much of your time...or as you mentioned; "Help you work much, much, much faster" :rolleyes:

J

Gomff

May 29, 2010, 07:37 AM

Glad I'm not the only one puzzled by the OP's workflow problems.

New graphics card options would be very welcome indeed. It irks me that Apple deliberately encourage folks into the iMac line in order to sell newer models every few years due to the lack of upgrade options....Especially where GPU's are concerned. Not only is this strategy very environmentally unfriendly, but it means Apple machines running OSX will almost always be behind PC's in GPU technology.

calderone

May 29, 2010, 10:34 AM

That's what I feel like I'm being told by Cupertino. People may say OS X-based pros have other options, but most of them don't.

Cupertino isn't telling you anything. We all know that the Mac Pro can be subject to long update cycles. There are two things that can happen.

1. Apple drops prices over the life of the hardware
2. Apple waits until the necessary hardware is available and release when they decide to

We know 1 is not going to happen, it never has. I can't say it never will, but with no previous examples it is foolish and frankly ridiculous to complain about it. We all know this doesn't happen.

Number 2 will happen, one day. Probably very soon based on previous data and what we know about upcoming hardware.

Back to your first point, Cupertino isn't telling you to do anything. If you want upgraded hardware, then wait until there is upgraded hardware.

I don't understand why being professional equates to mindless business decisions. I know that the current machines are obsolete and overpriced, therefore I will wait to get a better value for my money...which, contrary to some views in this thread, is not in unlimited supply.

Nobody is advocating mindless decisions. You either:

1. Have to buy a new machine now because your current one died, adding on a new employee due to an increase in your base. For some you reason, you need a machine and you need it now.

What you buy is up to you. Maybe the prices are too high and you try out a Dell workstation. Maybe you, like some have suggested here, try out a workstation running some flavor of Linux. Maybe you buy a refund Mac Pro or maybe a brand new one.

What you have to realize is that most businesses aren't sitting on forums clamoring for new hardware. They are working. So if they need a new machine, they get the new machine and continue working. That is how you run a business. If you can drastically increase your client base by adding a new designer/developer/editor spending $2500-$4500 is peanuts and makes business sense. You are still getting a capable and reliable machine while bringing in more money than before.

2. Your current machines are working fine and you don't have an burning need to expand.

Then you can wait it out. No one is telling you to buy. Not me, not Apple, nobody. It is your decision to wait. And indeed, if you are in this position you should wait as the Mac Pro is at the end of its life.

While I can't speak for others, all I am saying is that you either need it or you don't. But I see no reason to post troll threads like this one (which has recently undergone a title change). Talking about what may be coming, posting any tidbit that could shed some light on when or what is great!

As for the "bleeding edge isn't the point" argument, I can agree, however it must be noted that new MP buyers will hardly be guinea pigs, considering they will be using processors and parts engineered for stability on what is likely to be the same logic board design.

You mean like the 09 Audio problem? You don't think those working in the audio industry felt like guinea pigs?

Now, I don't think the new Mac Pros will start falling dead after a few days, but there is always the possibility that some issue could cripple your work. Bleeding edge need not be ever new piece of hardware in one box, but even the smallest change and improper bit of engineering could make the machine worthless.

.

psingh01

May 29, 2010, 11:17 AM

couldn't have said it better
it seems like just gamers and kids complaining

Not really. People wouldn't have a problem buying old tech if it was priced as old tech.

octatonic

May 29, 2010, 11:54 AM

It must be true. 450 days since last update!

:(

YES OF COURSE THEY ARE.*

(* By this I mean, no of course they aren't).

anim8or

May 31, 2010, 06:56 AM

Just my 2p....

I am sitting with an '06 Mac Pro and have been watching the rumourmill churn over updated Mac Pros for the past few months.

My Mac Pro still does the job, but the reponse times and render times are starting to get a little on the long side with certain projects i am working on/

I would love to see a 'show of hands' as to how many other Mac Pro users are sitting in my position of not wanting to jump on the '09 Mac Pro wagon with an update imminent... I think we r justifiably pi**ed off that apple have kept their hand close to their chest.

So everyone in here moaning at the people who are angry at the current update secrecy should not jump to the conclusion that we all have recent hardware and are looking to update for the sake of it!

mBox

May 31, 2010, 07:14 AM

...I would love to see a 'show of hands' as to how many other Mac Pro users are sitting in my position of not wanting to jump on the '09 Mac Pro wagon...still waiting and dont mind really. as long as they get it right this time around (e.g. display cards, etc..).
sadly our only problematic MacPro is an 09 model. Its housing an FX4800 and a few extra backplane hardware for RAID. seems to hang at shut-down both OS and After Effects. Got into the habit of leaving this one on at all times.

Macinposh

May 31, 2010, 07:49 AM

Just my 2p....

I am sitting with an '06 Mac Pro and have been watching the rumourmill churn over updated Mac Pros for the past few months.

My Mac Pro still does the job, but the reponse times and render times are starting to get a little on the long side with certain projects i am working on/

Practially in the same boat with my ´06,with small differencies..
Not planning to upgrade...yet...

FCS and Photoshop are as slow as they were in 2006,practically no improvements with CS5 and FCP7. So,whats the hurry. Maybe throw in a
SSD, and up the memory from 10Gb to 16. And run the computer for couple of more years untill the programmers get their heads from their arses.

And when that time comes around,I will take a long hard look on the situation of the Macpros and final cut, and if they are in as ****** shape as they are today,I might migrate back to the PC side.Shudder..

zedsdead

May 31, 2010, 08:23 AM

Practially in the same boat with my ´06,with small differencies..
Not planning to upgrade...yet...

FCS and Photoshop are as slow as they were in 2006,practically no improvements with CS5 and FCP7. So,whats the hurry. Maybe throw in a
SSD, and up the memory from 10Gb to 16. And run the computer for couple of more years untill the programmers get their heads from their arses.

And when that time comes around,I will take a long hard look on the situation of the Macpros and final cut, and if they are in as ****** shape as they are today,I might migrate back to the PC side.Shudder..

If you are using Final Cut Pro, render times will not improve much until Final Cut Pro is multi-core aware. When rendering, I have a brand new quad core iMac, and it barely uses 2 cores (and that's if I am lucky). The program needs a complete re-write.

mBox

May 31, 2010, 08:59 AM

If you are using Final Cut Pro, render times will not improve much until Final Cut Pro is multi-core aware. When rendering, I have a brand new quad core iMac, and it barely uses 2 cores (and that's if I am lucky). The program needs a complete re-write.until everyone else (Avid) starts using multi-core, were all stuck with this :P
its a fact competition is always good :)

Macinposh

May 31, 2010, 09:17 AM

If you are using Final Cut Pro, render times will not improve much until Final Cut Pro is multi-core aware.

That is what I said with the "developers needing to remove their heads from their arses" thing... :)
FCP and adobe,both.

So,as long as the quad 06 performs as well or better than the 09 octos for me,well,there aint no hurry...

anim8or

May 31, 2010, 09:19 AM

If you are using Final Cut Pro, render times will not improve much until Final Cut Pro is multi-core aware. When rendering, I have a brand new quad core iMac, and it barely uses 2 cores (and that's if I am lucky). The program needs a complete re-write.

Unfortunately its After Effects that i use... so my 32 bit EFI 06 Mac Pro is not quite cutting it for me anymore... would love to upgrade now but will not waste money when i 'know' a refresh is coming soon.....

Kissaragi

May 31, 2010, 09:30 AM

They could at least have poped some upgrades in 6 months ago, 4870 as standard, 6gb of ram, 1tb hard drive, etc.

calderone

May 31, 2010, 10:43 AM

New Mac Pro on Tuesday or Wednesday. I say "or" because today is a holiday. I am not sure if Memorial Day is like other holidays for Apple.

mBox

May 31, 2010, 10:50 AM

New Mac Pro on Tuesday or Wednesday. I say "or" because today is a holiday. I am not sure if Memorial Day is like other holidays for Apple.sadly its a holiday for Apple for awhile thanks to their 2millionth iPad sold :P
kidding aside, hope they got their toy mentality out of their system and get back to Pro Systems ;)

AZREOSpecialist

May 31, 2010, 11:07 AM

slughead

May 31, 2010, 12:47 PM

The writing is on the wall. Those of us with 2009 Mac Pros may very well have the last Mac Pro. Apple is just waiting to clear inventory before it announces the end of the Mac Pro line. It's just not a lucrative product compared to iPad, iPhone, iPod, and iMac - where all the money is. That's my two cents.

Oh don't be so melodramatic. They've taken their time updating in the past, and now it makes even more sense to delay because their inventory is probably not diminishing as fast as they'd like due to the recession (and the fact that it was overpriced to begin with ...).

It takes a lot of money to 1) engineer a new product 2) make sure its pricepoint isn't too bad 3) re-engineer if necessary 4) re-tool the manufacturing plants 5) market the changes.

If the Mac Pro isn't raking in the dough, they wont bother releasing a new one for a long time--that does not, however, mean the line is finished.

The Mac Pro, even if outdated and overpriced, still leaves Apple's "foot in the door" for big markets. It's kind of like when supermarkets stock the crappy stinky cheese because the few people who buy those also buy a ton of other stuff.

I, for instance, have been an Apple customer for 20 years. I no longer buy computers I can't significantly upgrade. If Apple cuts me out, I WILL switch to Windows or keep my Mac Pro until it decomposes. On the other hand, the last Mac I bought (2006 Mac Pro) was so awesome I haven't bought another one since.

Max(IT)

May 31, 2010, 01:55 PM

It was necessary.

Hopefully Android will migrate to desktop OS next. I'd love to have another UNIX-based-developer-friendly-yet-also-consumer-friendly to compete with Apple's desktop OSes.

It could happen! Android is just Linux underneath and Android has gone from phone -> tablet -> tv ... laptop/desktop while hopefully be next.

This whole 1.5 year between update debacle has almost got me considering going back to Linux. I just hate the dearth of consumer software for it.

How can someone trust a company like Google for his personal business is beyond my understanding ... :rolleyes:

nanofrog

May 31, 2010, 09:49 PM

It takes a lot of money to 1) engineer a new product 2) make sure its pricepoint isn't too bad 3) re-engineer if necessary 4) re-tool the manufacturing plants 5) market the changes.
True for a completely new product. But in this case, it's really just a firmware change to allow for the newer CPU's (new microcode).

It's possible Apple could surprise us with a new case design, or even additional features on the board, but I don't think it that likely. At best, maybe the case exterior, as that would be re-used with future systems (internal's reworked as needed of course). Cost being the reason, as Intel is well aware of this scenario, and intended the new CPU's to be a drop-in after a microcode update to lower system manufacturing costs (no new boards or retooling that's not voluntary, which allows costs to be drawn out over 2yrs rather than each).

If the Mac Pro isn't raking in the dough, they wont bother releasing a new one for a long time--that does not, however, mean the line is finished.
If it stops earning anything, they're likely to dump it (i.e. any work or continued production at all results in a loss). Any other company would if it wasn't chalked up to an annomoly (i.e. market disappears/changes permanently where the existing product no longer fulfills a market).

Hopefully, it won't come to that, as there's a fair few independents and larger entities that have a significant investment in OS X (forced to switch in an unplanned manner could cause some to go under due to the lack of funds to purchase both new systems and software, particularly the software, as it can easily exceed the cost of the system/s).

How can someone trust a company like Google for his personal business is beyond my understanding ... :rolleyes:
Perhaps cost was the basis. :eek:

That said, if budgets are limited (little to no software budget; undercapitalization comes to mind), and UNIX is known/desired, then Linux (or possibly Open Solaris) would have been a better choice IMO. ;)

InfoSecmgr

May 31, 2010, 10:04 PM

Just because your workloads & workflows are not CPU- or I/O-limited doesn't mean everyone's is. I know mine certainly are.

You hate wasting time, don't you? Allow me to assist you. My time is far less valuable than yours, this is evident because I am using a core 2 duo MacBook, so I don't mind helping you out for a few minutes. I fully understand that Apple is holding you back by not releasing Mac Pro's with the latest CPU's and GPU's. Here is my expert advice. What I would do is sue Apple. That's right. Sue them! Those SOB's have held you back long enough! It is time for you to take drastic action and reclaim what is yours. What I suggest is that you tally up all your lost productivity in hours with your current Mac Pro versus whatever a 2010 update would (or should have), then demand Apple pay you for that time. I sincerely hope this has helped you. I apologize for not typing this in shorthand, it must have taken at least 1.5 minutes to read. What is your paypal account e-mail address? I'll forward you the cash for the wasted time.

calderone

May 31, 2010, 11:33 PM

You know, come to think of it they have held me back as well!

"It's my productivity and I need it now!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX0fIi3H-es

HSJR

Jun 1, 2010, 04:08 AM

I don't believe apple will abandon its MP after it gains great reputation in movie editing, CS, and beyond. If we haven't see a new MP in a week time then we may have to wait at least for two months; if we assume that apple will focus to meet the demand for its iPad and its upcoming iphone 4G. Maybe that means another +100 days of waiting. :p

Ravich

Jun 1, 2010, 04:17 AM

ValSalva

Jun 1, 2010, 04:48 AM

This waiting game is really not much fun. I'm starting to look at the possibility of buying an iMac and then eventually using as an external monitor and slave to a mac pro in the future, but even the iMacs are supposedly nearing the end of their cycle....

With USB3 around the corner, it's just... ugh. Why does WWDC have to be so late this year?

I believe WWDC was June 6th last year. I agree with you about the waiting game. If not WWDC then when? I will be seriously disappointed if there is no new Mac Pro in the next week. I'm sure I won't be alone.

the editor

Jun 1, 2010, 08:50 AM

don't know if you guys saw this one, its from last week

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=923492

xgman

Jun 1, 2010, 09:01 AM

Apple could easily offer the existing hardware with additional 6-core CPU options. Dell already does so with its Precision workstation line. If Dell can do it, why can't Apple? Look at the 8-core Mac Pro. Apple doesn't even offer the 3.3 GHz option that was available over a year ago from Intel.

What is the Mac Pro development team doing at Apple? Are they picking their noses or have they been moved into iPad development? Something doesn't smell right. No timely Mac Pro updates... Final Cut Pro is being re-designed to fit Apple's mainstream customers... No case re-design in years while the MacBook Pro and iMac have seen redesigns... And how long did it take Apple to put the Core i7 into the iMac? Funny, too, that Apple refuses to release Mac Pro sales figures.

The writing is on the wall. Those of us with 2009 Mac Pros may very well have the last Mac Pro. Apple is just waiting to clear inventory before it announces the end of the Mac Pro line. It's just not a lucrative product compared to iPad, iPhone, iPod, and iMac - where all the money is. That's my two cents.

I'll make that 4 cents.

Also, I guess some pro users are taking matters into their own hands:

"Spurred by the lack of a high-end IT track at this year’s WWDC some IT professionals are planning a separate conference that would provide resources similar to what Apple might have included.

“The MacEnterprise steering committee has been talking about doing this for way too long, but the recent lack of significant IT tracks at WWDC has spurred us into action,” said the group."

Freyqq

Jun 1, 2010, 09:08 AM

Why does it need to be the latest tech to be a pro machine? in many other areas the pro level models are never the very latest - Pro usually indicates build and reliability rather than latest (as yet not fully field tested) technology.

Pro users usually need something that does the job day-in and day-out without worrying about issues. The Mac Pro does that pretty well.

Besides the current Mac Pro does indeed kick serious behind (Xenon's etc) - maybe its the prosumers who are moaning more as they are the ones who seem to think you have to have the latest to be considered a 'pro'.

Heck my Power Mac G4 still does all my photoshop work without issue; (ok I'd like it to be a little quicker, but I don't need it to be), and she is 10 years old now.

just my five pence worth :)

I would have no problem with apple taking a year and a half to upgrade a product if they reduced the price accordingly over time. Today, the mac pro costs just as much as it did when it first went on the market. At the time, it was a powerhouse. Even then, people were complaining it was too expensive. Now, it's just below average compared to the new hardware out today. There is simply no justification to actually buy one at this point unfortunately.

Apple Corps

Jun 1, 2010, 09:42 AM

parakiet

Jun 1, 2010, 09:43 AM

I believe WWDC was June 6th last year. I agree with you about the waiting game. If not WWDC then when? I will be seriously disappointed if there is no new Mac Pro in the next week. I'm sure I won't be alone.

don't get your hopes up

apple updates when you least expect it :)

xgman

Jun 1, 2010, 10:06 AM

IMO there are too many people on this topic who do not run businesses on Macs - those of us that do have a very different perspective on what "pro" means.

No disrespect meant, but you really don't have any idea what people do or do not do in this topic.

Apple Corps

Jun 1, 2010, 10:17 AM

Go back to the post I was replying to - "...There is simply no justification to actually buy..."

That is not a very logical position to take as I outlined in my response. One, as a professional, does not give up on significant assignments due to a lack of a $4,000 or whatever computer.

There are justifications for buying now. PROFESSIONALS have a different perspective as others have posted.

Apple Corps

Jun 1, 2010, 10:45 AM

A few weeks ago in some other thread someone (new standard of vague) questioned why someone even cared to respond to a thread about the MP value and purchasing now. It was a good question I thought about.

My take is that these bold statements about "no justification for buying now..." - and there have been a number of them - are really "dissing" people who do have to buy a current model like NOW. The gist is that you must be ignorant, uninformed, or whatever to purchase now - thus my response.

If you are a tech spec chaser, so be it - IMO, you have a different priority than the many professionals who earn $$$ with the MP TOOL.

Yes, I just purchased a new MP - would love to have waited longer but sometimes "ya just gotta get on with it" :rolleyes:

xgman

Jun 1, 2010, 10:47 AM

I agree that if you need a workhorse for your business now, the mac pro 2009 is a qualified machine, but it IS overpriced and an update SHOULD be imminent whether it is or not. I seriously doubt anyone is giving up on assignments. People here are just venting frustration over a long period of no updates for any number of personal reasons, all of which should be assumed valid. It is not for us to judge peoples personal reasons for this. In any case this is macrumors. Lots of rumors, but very few regarding mac lately.

nanofrog

Jun 1, 2010, 11:22 AM

There is justification - if you run your business on Macs & related apps and you need a new machine - you buy it.

Do you think people are going to lose $50,000 assignments because they "refuse" to buy the current MP on the basis of the "value"?

Get real - I just bought one and will use it until something CLEARLY better comes out - then decide if the upgrade is worth it or not.

IMO there are too many people on this topic who do not run businesses on Macs - those of us that do have a very different perspective on what "pro" means.
Where I see the "divide" is between larger entities (true corporations) vs. idependent pros or perhaps with SMB's in some cases. As where a corporate entity will have the budgets to get equipment when needed, independents in particular (assuming they do have a system that's at least usable), have a much harder time setting asside the funds over time to make sure that a future budget is in place. There's also the aspect of a leaner operation, so the value portion of the equation is more likely to differ for them (i.e. not on a fixed MTBR as a result of not having a dedicated equipment budget cycle).

SMB's can fall either way IMO, as some are just as undercapitalized as independents. They can still get work done, but haven't been in a position to be able to set aside a proper equipment budget.

For the large entities, they do have such budgets in place, and it's less of a problem, if at all (what it should be). They're after an immediate solution that will earn money (i.e. more jobs coming their way, so they hire new personnel to take on the additional workload and obtain equipment for them).

From what I've noticed on MR, most of the members seem to be independents. I could be way off, but the questions and posted situations indicate independents (some are pros, others students that will become pros).

Just my take... :p

ValSalva

Jun 1, 2010, 11:38 AM

Yes, I just purchased a new MP - would love to have waited longer but sometimes "ya just gotta get on with it" :rolleyes:

True. If one needs a machine now then there is no choice. I just wish Apple would "get on with it" with regards to updating the Mac Pro. I think our wait is going to be less than a week at this point though.

calderone

Jun 1, 2010, 11:51 AM

True. If one needs a machine now then there is no choice. I just wish Apple would "get on with it" with regards to updating the Mac Pro. I think our wait is going to be less than a week at this point though.

Tomorrow. Silent update before WWDC.

ValSalva

Jun 1, 2010, 12:00 PM

Tomorrow. Silent update before WWDC.

Any inside info? Or just a hunch? Either way, that would be GREAT!

calderone

Jun 1, 2010, 12:06 PM

Any inside info? Or just a hunch? Either way, that would be GREAT!

Hunch. Since WWDC is supposed to be iPhone OS focused, I would imagine they would want to get the updates out of the way beforehand.

Unless there are some major things they want to cover in the keynote (like a redesign), I don't see them spending time on it during the conference.

The 2008 Mac Pro was updated a week before Macworld.

macuserx86

Jun 1, 2010, 12:27 PM

I can see it now...

Introducing the new iMac Pro:
glossy everything
no user-replaceable parts
magical
only port is a dock connector
only runs iPhone OS 4

starting at $3499

:rolleyes:

calderone

Jun 1, 2010, 12:29 PM

I can see it now...

Introducing the new iMac Pro:
glossy everything
no user-replaceable parts
only port is a dock connector
only runs iPhone OS 4

starting at $3499

:rolleyes:

Haha...

rhett7660

Jun 1, 2010, 12:30 PM

Tomorrow. Silent update before WWDC.

That would be nice.......... I don't think they will mention it either at WWDC.

Apple Corps

Jun 1, 2010, 12:33 PM

xgman - I have an assignment IN THE BREECH - I had to purchase - so please do not doubt that there are people needing to purchase due to assignments ready to go. I'd loved to have the next generation but....

nano - your comment on "the divide" strikes a note with me - I've been thinking about posting on that same point for some time now.

This Board (and many others) are a collision of many different perspectives, values, motives, experiences, etc. We have:

Trolls taking pleasure in doing whatever sick stuff they do

Obsessive tech spec chasers

Technically sharp 15 year olds with little life experience

Technically sharp older people with life experience but who think like 15 year olds

People who view the Mac as a treasured work of art - they have arrived

People who view the Mac as a tool they use in their business

Aggressive confrontational types

Passive types

Big picture types / literal types / etc.

Most importantly - informed people who want to HELP

etc. / etc. / etc.

It is no wonder that posts often generate more HEAT than LIGHT :eek:

Icaras

Jun 1, 2010, 12:38 PM

I can see it now...

Introducing the new iMac Pro:
glossy everything
no user-replaceable parts
only port is a dock connector
only runs iPhone OS 4

starting at $3499

:rolleyes:

Yes, and it will be newly dubbed the "Magical Pro".

xgman

Jun 1, 2010, 01:03 PM

It is no wonder that posts often generate more HEAT than LIGHT :eek:

It's frustrating, We just want some news. :(

nanofrog

Jun 1, 2010, 01:04 PM

xgman - I have an assignment IN THE BREECH - I had to purchase - so please do not doubt that there are people needing to purchase due to assignments ready to go. I'd loved to have the next generation but....
Precisely why your situation coincided with a large entity, whether that's the size of your company or not (you had the funds for the system, and work in hand, so there was no choice but to purchase the equipment and get on with it). ;)

nano - your comment on "the divide" strikes a note with me - I've been thinking about posting on that same point for some time now.
It just seems the best way to sum the contrast in opinions to me. :D

This Board (and many others) are a collision of many different perspectives, values, motives, experiences, etc....
Definitely, and plenty of valid points (not sure if the majority are or not, so playing it safe here). But not from every single POV (situational differences,...), and why the debates can sometimes become a bit heated. :eek: :p

AZREOSpecialist

Jun 3, 2010, 03:23 PM

... If the Mac Pro isn't raking in the dough, they wont bother releasing a new one for a long time--that does not, however, mean the line is finished.

You must not know much about business then.

deconstruct60

Jun 3, 2010, 04:10 PM

You must not know much about business then.

Some folks say "ranking in the dough" when they really mean "has high growth". Like the iPad is "ranking in the dough" when there are other machines at other companies which sell in substantially smaller quantities that generate more profit.

As long as the units sold doesn't drop below some profitable lower bound run rate, it makes sense to continue to sell them. If the prices are the same (or lower ) for components and the R&D is amortized over a larger number of units the profits can actually go up by not doing anything as long as demand doesn't crater.

The 30" Cinema display is an example. For some reason folks continue to buy them. As long as they do and the parts prices don't go way up, Apple will keep selling it. It is milking a cash cow.

slughead

Jun 3, 2010, 04:49 PM

As long as the units sold doesn't drop below some profitable lower bound run rate, it makes sense to continue to sell them. If the prices are the same (or lower ) for components and the R&D is amortized over a larger number of units the profits can actually go up by not doing anything as long as demand doesn't crater.

Well there's also the issue of opportunity cost--they could use the mac pro plant to make something more profitable. However, they'd still have to pay to retool and everything.

I don't know if I said this before, but I really don't think they're going to abandon the line for no other reason than to not abandon the occasional institutional customer who wants all their computers (of varying specs) from the same manufacturer. Despite the "it's sooo cross platform" propaganda, a room full of PCs will work together a lot better than a couple of PCs in a room full of macs. It also requires a person with basically double the amount of experience to work 2 platforms at once (more than that when you're talking about getting them to work together--share printers, etc).

slughead

Jun 3, 2010, 05:00 PM

True for a completely new product. But in this case, it's really just a firmware change to allow for the newer CPU's (new microcode).

It's possible Apple could surprise us with a new case design, or even additional features on the board, but I don't think it that likely. At best, maybe the case exterior, as that would be re-used with future systems (internal's reworked as needed of course). Cost being the reason, as Intel is well aware of this scenario, and intended the new CPU's to be a drop-in after a microcode update to lower system manufacturing costs (no new boards or retooling that's not voluntary, which allows costs to be drawn out over 2yrs rather than each).

While that's all true, I'm sure they still need to pay a lot of money to retrain the workers, test the new parts, negotiate deals to supply parts, assess marketability and price point etc. etc. Even if only minor changes need to be made, they have to be made to the entire supply chain at once.

Apple is especially anal about their testing process, I'm sure they find the exact tolerances to keep their fans running as slow as possible while maintaining temperatures. They probably even forego certain video cards and processors simply because of noise. Apple is a huge corporation with a huge supply chain that probably doesn't like a lot of risk, therefore I bet a lot of research goes into each upgrade.

If it stops earning anything, they're likely to dump it

I agree, I was just saying that even if it's not a super-popular product and they're not updating it, that doesn't mean they're going to dump it (because dumping it would cost money, plus if it's still earning there's not necessarily a reason to). I was also saying that slower updates are more likely in products that aren't selling well (as change is expensive, and sometimes the product's profits wont pay for it).

Sun Baked

Jun 3, 2010, 05:50 PM

I can see it now...

Introducing the new iMac Pro:
glossy everything
no user-replaceable parts
magical
only port is a dock connector
only runs iPhone OS 4

starting at $3499

:rolleyes:

C'mon if you put the consumer chipset in a single CPU Mac Pro, you'd just be repeating history.

Power Macintosh G5/1.8 Single (http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/power-macintosh-g5-single.html)

Which lasted 8 months. Which was literally a headless iMac, and likely the first since the Tower and the iMac stopped using the same chipsets and we started having consumer and pro chipsets.

nanofrog

Jun 3, 2010, 07:33 PM

While that's all true, I'm sure they still need to pay a lot of money to retrain the workers, test the new parts, negotiate deals to supply parts, assess marketability and price point etc. etc. Even if only minor changes need to be made, they have to be made to the entire supply chain at once.
Not at all.

1. It's the same case, boards,... as it's a drop in replacement.
2. Validation isn't nearly as extensive as that of the Nehalem switch over. Just the new microcode, and the graphics card changes need to be dealt with.
3. Component deals are already in place with the suppliers (set for 2yr cycles, not one).

It won't take near the time or funds as the initial design and validation phases.

Apple is especially anal about their testing process....
Given the recent bug issues, it seems the validation testing has begun to fall short (i.e. audio bug that took 2x fixes to finally get sorted in the '09 MP's), and other products are suffering as well it seems (i.e. screen issues on the 27" iMac systems).

I'm not saying it's gone totally in the toilet, but it's not what it once was either (not too distant past).

cs4160

Jun 3, 2010, 07:40 PM

First of all, I am not a troll or an apple basher, and while I am happy for apples success, it’s certainly not been materially driven by their desktops...and like any intelligently run company, you put your resources where you get your best ROI....and clearly the phenomenal grown of the ipad/phone/pod is where it has been...at least that’s how the market has responded...there is a reason why Apple changed its name a few years ago…and again, good for them.

But this leads me to the sad conclusion that the product I myopically lust for is no longer a priority....how else to explain:

1. going 458 days without a material update...or even a price change. That’s a lifetime in the tech world
2. if you currently price out the components, less case, of a base quad core MP, I get to about 950 bucks, and that’s being conservative,....assuming the case is less than 1,500, that’s so uncompetitive, it defies belief
3. The fully loaded i7 severely cannibalizes the quad core sku...yes I know, a tower offers a myriad of advantages, but to many users, it’s not an issue...and with a similarly configured MP costing @600 bucks more NOT including a 27 inch monitor....well, I imagine that has put a further dent in quad MP sales.
4. Hardly any floor space at an apple store, and an almost complete absence of knowledge of the product by the employees (to be fair, in carlsbad at least, they seem to have a good grasp on everything else).

I can only assume that Apple is fine in not investing in a new MP platform for well over a year. Corporate sales, that require a tower and are not as price sensitive as an individual user or Small business, are probably adequate, and as suggested, offer a hefty per unit profit margin…

I for one want a MP. The current performance is more than adequate for what I need, but I cannot, with any good conscious, buy a product that is so overpriced. I didn’t think the 2009 MP’s were that good of a deal 460 days ago, and that certainly hasn’t improved with age. My fear is that the 2010 version, whenever it comes, might further morph into a product that only the very rich individual or corporate buyer can afford/justify….if that’s the case, I guess it’s a new IMAC later this year for me….

I really really look forward to being proved wrong, hopefully as soon as next week!

slughead

Jun 4, 2010, 08:56 PM

It won't take near the time or funds as the initial design and validation phases.

Oh certainly not. They probably wouldn't even have to get it revalidated by the FCC. I still doubt the ability of a huge supply chain to make simple alterations cheaply :)

covrc

Jun 5, 2010, 07:12 AM

>>I for one want a MP. The current performance is more than adequate for what I need, but I cannot, with any good conscious, buy a product that is so overpriced. I didn’t think the 2009 MP’s were that good of a deal 460 days ago, and that certainly hasn’t improved with age. My fear is that the 2010 version, whenever it comes, might further morph into a product that only the very rich individual or corporate buyer can afford/justify….if that’s the case, I guess it’s a new IMAC later this year for me….<<

I just hope you look very closely at the 27" iMac screen issue. Full Glossy and the yellowing problems were an issue. I am no fanatic about stuff, but the yellowing is a very real issue. I waited until February before finally ordering and I still went through 5 delivered to my house before giving up on the i7. I go into about 7 different Apple Stores up here around Boston and I have tested every floor model of the 27" iMac I can find and can see see the yellowing in almost the exact pattern across the screen. It is more difficult to see in the stores with the bright ambient lighting, but it is surely there and for $2100 for an i7, I can't justify spending that amount of money for a screen that should be better than what is currently being sold on the i7s.

I am still using my G4 20" which my wife bought me as a surprise 3 weeks before the G5 came out, so I do know what it is like to buy at the end of the run. She is slooow with my Photoshop and Lightroom work, but until I started shooting RAW, she was good enough. I am still in the process of setting up my refurbed 2009 2.6 Mac Pro and waiting for my refurbed NEC Multisynch 2690WUXI2 to be delivered. $2650 is a huge amount of money for both for me, but I only upgrade about every 4-5 yrs. This combination cost me a bit more, and yes, it may be left in the dust tech wise if there is this huge upgrade soon, but, we never ever ever stay at the front edge long anyway. Good luck with your choice, I hope you are as happy with yours as I am with mine.:p

covrc

Gloor

Jun 5, 2010, 12:00 PM

I have to say that I am very content with my MP 08 which is still a beast and to be honest the best value for the money I paid when they released it. The machine before wasn't as good and 2009 is overpriced joke.
On the other hand, I do have the need to have faster machine when I get to rendering stage in Maya. Every core counts and the time saved is HUGE! Luckily, I don't do rendering on every day basis but rather at the end of each project but I can only say this. When it comes to rendering then there is no such thing as enough power. The project I've been working on for months (my personal though) will take me about 2 months to render on my 8core 2.8GHz machine. That is a lot of time and as you can imagine, if I get machine that is 16cores then the time is cut in half if not more (depending on few factors like better and faster chips etc.)

I will probably ask some of my friends if they would run it through a render farm but this is just an example for the debate.

Yes, there are some people that buy MP and don't really need the power but others do buy it because they need it so mocking those of us that do need it is not going to help.

I hope Apple will release 2010 line with the same value for money we had with 2008 line. That would be super awesome :)))