Voter Registrations Possibly Trashed

[zimv20]

link (http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595&nav=168XRvNe)


(Oct. 12) -- Employees of a private voter registration company allege that hundreds, perhaps thousands of voters who may think they are registered will be rudely surprised on election day. The company claims hundreds of registration forms were thrown in the trash.

Anyone who has recently registered or re-registered to vote outside a mall or grocery store or even government building may be affected.

The I-Team has obtained information about an alleged widespread pattern of potential registration fraud aimed at democrats. The focus of the story is a private registration company called Voters Outreach of America, AKA America Votes.

The out-of-state firm has been in Las Vegas for the past few months, registering voters. It employed up to 300 part-time workers and collected hundreds of registrations per day, but former employees of the company say that Voters Outreach of America only wanted Republican registrations.

Two former workers say they personally witnessed company supervisors rip up and trash registration forms signed by Democrats.

"We caught her taking Democrats out of my pile, handed them to her assistant and he ripped them up right in front of us. I grabbed some of them out of the garbage and she tells her assisatnt to get those from me," said Eric Russell, former Voters Outreach employee.

Eric Russell managed to retrieve a pile of shredded paperwork including signed voter registration forms, all from Democrats. We took them to the Clark County Election Department and confirmed that they had not, in fact, been filed with the county as required by law.

[...]

The company has been largely, if not entirely funded, by the Republican National Committee. Similar complaints have been received in Reno where the registrar has asked the FBI to investigate.

[vwcruisn]

wow... how far will they go? not surprising at all tho btw

[solvs]

Wow. I've heard of some Democrats only trying to sign up Kerry supporters, but never of destroying Bush supporters registration cards. That's why I took the time to make sure I was registered to vote. This is disgusting, and very illegal. It's a Federal Crime for anyone involved to do this. Somehow I wonder if Bush gets elected if they will be prosecuted. They would have to be, if nothing else than for the appearance of fairness.

I hope these people are investigated and have to turn over all of their paperwork to authorities. I feel bad for all of those not registered, and hope they can still find a way to let them vote. If nothing else, class action suit.

[zimv20]

as more of these stories come to light, the more post-election crisis there will be if bush "wins". i think we're heading towards a serious election crisis, which will make 2000 look tame.

[Zaid]

as more of these stories come to light, the more post-election crisis there will be if bush "wins". i think we're heading towards a serious election crisis, which will make 2000 look tame.

You're right. The first thing i thought when i read this was 'banana republic'.

Now that's harsh, i know, but it is the sort of thing you read about in great democracies like Zimbabwe. It somehow doesn't inspire confidence. It also raises the question of how many other companies are doing this? (on either side?)

[solvs]

It somehow doesn't inspire confidence. It also raises the question of how many other companies are doing this? (on either side?)
Look what happened in the Afganistan elections. The results aren't even in yet and the candidates are already crying foul over how bad it was messed up. Funny how the terrorist, who we're told hate freedom, did nothing and yet it still got screwed up. They at least have an excuse, they're new at it. What's our excuse?

And they want us to use computer voting (Windows, no less) with no paper trail!?! Nice try, but I don't think so.

[takao]

You're right. The first thing i thought when i read this was 'banana republic'.


i second that..absolutly unbelievable...god damn it ..we're talking about the USA here..

what have companies to do with voting-registration in the first place ?

here all hell would break lose if something like that would happen here (the registration thing works completly different..if you turn 18 you are automatically allowed to vote where you are living at that time..you have to inform them when changing main residence..the whole stuff is organzied in a central register ... but i don't know how it works with party candidate-elections thats only for members of the parties i think...and i'm not member of a party...like most people here)

[Inu]

It is indeed interesting...

I thought it was as Takao described in every (supposed) Democracy. It sure is this way in Switzerland too.

[skunk]

To us outsiders, the whole US election process is looking increasingly dishonest and ludicrously disorganized. The disenfranchisement of felons (what price "universal suffrage"?), the whole voter registration thing, the trail-less electronic voting, the many commercial fingers buried in the pie, the wholesale corruption, not to mention the gerrymandering, these things would all be unacceptable over here. Your democracy, which you seek to foist on other countries by force of arms, is a joke. The society of the spectacle has taken you over, and the rest of the world just has to hope that your plans will be sufficiently unrealistic not to come to fruition. Unfortunately, although most of the world can see it clearly, several thousand people will have to die to prove it.

[wwworry]

cheating in South Dakota (http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail2817.cfm?Id=22,35245)
you have republican cheating in Nevada - linked above
cheating in Florida

they will stop at nothing

[takao]

I thought it was as Takao described in every (supposed) Democracy. It sure is this way in Switzerland too.

for switzerland: i have no idea ... the whole kanton system etc. looks sometimes very different from outside...in switzerland there are much more elections on issues ..aka. a mroe direct democracy...but in the last years with the right shift even in switzerland it is going away from this a little bit (not much but enough to make lots of headlines on swiss TV ;) )
but i thinks it's more making fun of each others between the confoederatio helvetica and austria ;)

[mactastic]

This Republican tactic is disgusting. The obvious strategy is to suppress the vote, doing whatever it takes to keep the popular vote down. A high turnout benefits Kerry and the Democratic party in general. So the GOP will bus in the religious conservatives and put up roadblocks near black communities. Just more evidence of this administration's 'ends jusitfy the means' philosophy.

I've run across voter suppression stories in Colorado, Florida, Michigan, and now this. It makes you wonder how much of this stuff went on unreported in years past.

And somehow I can't see enough evidence being left around of any serious crime by a higher-up. Sure a few of the 'bad apples' will fry, but those who benefit from it most won't pay. Even if Kerry wins I can't see any of these prosecutions going far.

Will 'one person, one vote' ever really be true?

[Don't panic]

And these people (Rove and Co.) have the guts to say they want to export freedom and democracy!
they should be arrested and sent to Abu Ghraib...

[mischief]

the rest of the world just has to hope that your plans will be sufficiently unrealistic not to come to fruition. Unfortunately, although most of the world can see it clearly, several thousand people will have to die to prove it.

This is a common misconception of the rest of the world. Americans are a nation only in name. We have no coherent plan, identity or direction. Our leadership has taken 200 years to fully exploit those truths to assure that we are as divided and confused as possible.

Please understand that the bulk of this country has lived for generations much as the third world does: Isolated, insular, xenophobic and uninterested in the affairs of the outside world. The rest of us in this country can do little beyond watch in horror as the "bumpkin factor" is used time and again by professional politicians to sieze control of the political machine and hand favors to the highest bidder.

The few of us that want our goddamn country back from these elitist, facist, imperialistic, unresponsible riche nuveaux are in the unfortunate position of being too patriotic (and poor) to leave and too few to incur much change.

[yg17]

that article is sickening.

thats why I registered to vote at a public library where I knew it would be done right, I just couldn't trust any of those independent groups

[Zaid]

To us outsiders, the whole US election process is looking increasingly dishonest and ludicrously disorganized. The disenfranchisement of felons (what price "universal suffrage"?), the whole voter registration thing, the trail-less electronic voting, the many commercial fingers buried in the pie, the wholesale corruption, not to mention the gerrymandering, these things would all be unacceptable over here. Your democracy, which you seek to foist on other countries by force of arms, is a joke. The society of the spectacle has taken you over, and the rest of the world just has to hope that your plans will be sufficiently unrealistic not to come to fruition. Unfortunately, although most of the world can see it clearly, several thousand people will have to die to prove it.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Chip NoVaMac]

as more of these stories come to light, the more post-election crisis there will be if bush "wins". i think we're heading towards a serious election crisis, which will make 2000 look tame.

And as in 2000, the people for the most part will bend over and take it. That is the sad part.

[pseudobrit]

This is not unlike an ice hockey game.

In ice hockey, if you have talent enough, you simply play an offensive game until you're ahead by a comfortable lead and then play a little more conservatively to maintain the lead until the end of regulation.

However, if your team lacks the offensive prowess and prolific scorers, you do something else:

you play 100% defence.

It's called the neutral zone trap. The idea is to suppress the puckhandler so that he can't advance unmolested past the blue line and into the zone. A team does this by ignoring offence and committing almost every player on every line to stopping the other team from scoring.

New Jersey won two Stanley Cups by perfecting this tactic.

I think that's what the Republicans have realised: sometimes the best offence is defence.

There's also a common defensive formation called the left wing lock. I kid you not.

[pseudobrit]

Oh yeah: and this Nevada thing is ****ed up beyond belief.

But they know that in the end, people don't give a crap.

[zimv20]

within the past hour, i heard a report on NPR news about this.

they reported that several employees of the registration firm quit after being trained how to identify voters who would vote Democratic, and how to discourage them from registering.

things got worse when two employees went to get their paychecks. it was in an office where they saw company management dumping democratic-party-only registration forms. the employee grabbed a stack from the trash, then got into a little fight w/ the manager, who managed to get the stack back.

so the employee grabbed another stack from the trash and took off. he turned them over to the TV reporter who ended up breaking the story. NPR reported the employee also contacted the FBI.

finally, NPR reported that the RNC, who hired the registration firm, vehemently denies any wrongdoing on its part.

[takao]

you play 100% defence.

It's called the neutral zone trap. The idea is to suppress the puckhandler so that he can't advance unmolested past the blue line and into the zone. A team does this by ignoring offence and committing almost every player on every line to stopping the other team from scoring.

New Jersey won two Stanley Cups by perfecting this tactic.

I think that's what the Republicans have realised: sometimes the best offence is defence.

sounds like "Catenaccio" ;) a word who leads to raised fists and swearing about italy for inventing it, when mentioned to football fans...
(combine it with "tactical fouls" and "destroy the game at all costs" ...and watch perhaps the most boring football games ending 0:0)

[Thomas Veil]

Y'know, the Kerry campaign should make this subject their next commercial.

[wwworry]

It's happening in Milwaukee too (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/oct04/266144.asp)

[toaster_oven]

also in Oregon...

http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-8/1097647496301300.xml&storylist=orlocal

[solvs]

I'm glad everyone is watching this time. Hopefully those who are caught are prosecuted, even if Kerry wins. Bushites must be scared to try such underhanded tactics. We're watching you Georgie boy.

[zimv20]

anyone remember when i said that, behind in the polls, bush may postpone the election? i mentioned several "justifications" for him doing this, including voter disenfranchisement. i wonder if these instances would be something he cited...

[vniow]

Now that's harsh, i know, but it is the sort of thing you read about in great democracies like Zimbabwe. (on either side?)

Which is why need to invade ASAP!!! (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=23053)

[trebblekicked]

did somebody say pilaging?! *slides down fireman pole into basement headquarters* looks like we're back in action :D :D :D :D

[solvs]

Which is why need to invade ASAP!!! (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=23053)
Shhhhh! Don't give them any ideas. :p

[Lyle]

I'm curious to see if this story (http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/election/article/0,1299,DRMN_36_3256347,00.html) will get any coverage in the mainstream media:
Democrats got caught with their election playbook open Thursday when a leaked page was published urging operatives to lodge a "pre-emptive strike" of claiming voter intimidation, whether it's true or not.

...

The manual, at www.drudgereport.com, instructs operatives to hunt for Republican scare tactics that could keep voters from the polls. Democrats have claimed for decades that the GOP does that because low voter turnouts generally help Republican candidates.

"If no signs of intimidation techniques have emerged yet, launch a pre-emptive strike," rule No. 2 says.
Granted, the leaked page originally appeared on Drudge's site; but it doesn't sound as though the Democrats are denying that it's authentic:
... Democrats, who verified as authentic the page from a playbook called "Colorado Election Day Manual: A detailed guide to voting in Colorado," said they must be pro-active to assure that minorities and all others are not scared away from the polls.

[mischief]

Granted, the leaked page originally appeared on Drudge's site; but it doesn't sound as though the Democrats are denying that it's authentic:

If it came off Drudge I trust it about as much as I trust Charles Manson with an impressionable teenage daughter. Or to quote the late Douglas Adams: "About as far as I could comfortably spit out a rat."

Asking one democrat in a passing car if it's authentic doesn't count. Find corroboration somewhere else (like e-mailing the DNC for example and asking them yourself) and I might give (more DA:) "a steaming load of Dingo's kidneys."

[Lyle]

If it came off Drudge I trust it about as much as I trust Charles Manson with an impressionable teenage daughter...Yes, and that's why I made a point of acknowledging that the story originated at his (Drudge's, not Manson's) web site. I agree with you that, without some other corroboration, the story's legitimacy is suspect.

Asking one democrat in a passing car if it's authentic doesn't count. Find corroboration somewhere else (like e-mailing the DNC for example and asking them yourself) and I might give (more DA:) "a steaming load of Dingo's kidneys."Nice try, but the "democrat in a passing car" quoted in the story is Sue Casey, head of the Kerry-Edwards Colorado campaign, not some college intern down at the local campaign office. Do you honestly believe that she would vouch for the document's authenticity without running it by her DNC overlords first?

[Chip NoVaMac]

I am willing to be more open minded on this page since the Democrats have acknowledged the page. But when I tried to get the PDF of the page I got an error. I really want to see the topic in context.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Do you honestly believe that she would vouch for the document's authenticity without running it by her DNC overlords first?

Just as the private company in Nevada doing voter registration did check with the RNC overlords first either.

[Thomas Veil]

My reaction to the Drudge story: BFD.

All the Democrats are doing is urging civil rights leaders and others to warn voting officials that there had better not be any hanky-panky in the election, because they will be watching.

Nothing wrong with being pre-emptive. Dubya practices that kind of thing all the time. Just ask Saddam Hussein.

[mactastic]

Yeah, are pre-emptive strikes soley the perogative of the right? If we suspect that there is a threat of voter disenfranchisment, are we not obligated to pre-emptively attack, obliterate the threat, and ask question later? Where would that strategic idea have come from?
;)

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if there was some hanky panky from the Dems in this election as well. But I would be surprised if it is anywhere near as widespread as what the GOP is working on. And excusing your own bad behavior by pointing out someone else's isn't acceptable.

Who benefits more from voter suppression?

[Chip NoVaMac]

The only reason for the stuff on both sides is because of the money involved. What do the higher ups get paid at both Parties? How much of a "entertainment" do they have? Meetings in Vegas, Hawaii and the such must be hard. In particular when you don't have to stay at Motel 6....

[Lyle]

I am willing to be more open minded on this page since the Democrats have acknowledged the page. But when I tried to get the PDF of the page I got an error. I really want to see the topic in context.I found a copy of it in the archives here (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/downloads/dncVoters.htm). By the way, the incident was mentioned in a front-page USA Today story (today's print edition) as well as in their online edition here (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-10-14-registration_x.htm), so it's not just "a Drudge thing" anymore. Not sure if anyone else is reporting it, though.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I found a copy of it in the archives here (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/downloads/dncVoters.htm). By the way, the incident was mentioned in a front-page USA Today story (today's print edition) as well as in their online edition here (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-10-14-registration_x.htm), so it's not just "a Drudge thing" anymore. Not sure if anyone else is reporting it, though.

Thanks Lyle, after seeing the Drudge link, I see this as a non-issue compared to RNC/Republican efforts to control the 2000 and 2004 elections. I read it to mean to try and head off issues that may cause voters to stay away from the polls, or to be be turned away through "errors" in the voter registration process.

[Lyle]

Do you honestly believe that she would vouch for the document's authenticity without running it by her DNC overlords first?Just as the private company in Nevada doing voter registration did check with the RNC overlords first either.I'm not sure what kind of parallel you're trying to draw here, although it's probably academic at this point.

In a previous post, mischief was (I think) trying to make the case that just because some random Democrat vouched for the document's authenticity, that didn't mean that it was indeed a page from the Democrats' "Colorado Election Day Manual". And I was pointing out that no, this wasn't just some random Democrat but the head of the Kerry campaign for the state of Colorado. And I was further theorizing that when this document came to light she probably made a frantic phone call to someone higher up in the food chain to find out how to handle it.

If your point was, "I bet the guys at Voters Outreach of America (in Nevada) made an emergency call to someone in the RNC when that story hit the press," well, yes, I agree. ;)

[Lyle]

Yeah, are pre-emptive strikes soley the perogative of the right? If we suspect that there is a threat of voter disenfranchisment, are we not obligated to pre-emptively attack, obliterate the threat, and ask question later? Where would that strategic idea have come from?OK, so you're excusing the DNC's bad behavior by pointing out its similarity to the current administration's foreign policy. Fair enough.

... and excusing your own bad behavior by pointing out someone else's isn't acceptable.I guess it would be trite to use the term "flip-flop" at this point.

[Lyle]

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if there was some hanky panky from the Dems in this election as well. But I would be surprised if it is anywhere near as widespread as what the GOP is working on.Right-wing blogger Bill Hobbs is keeping a running archive (http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/cat_voter_fraud.html) of stories related to election fraud coming from the Democrats. There are a lot of links there and I obviously haven't tried to check out the validity of each of those stories. And you may also be correct that if were to do a "tit for tat" comparison we might find that the GOP is the worse offender of the two. Or, hey, we might not. ;)

I guess I just wanted to make the case that while there's no excuse for these kinds of practices by Republicans, it's disingenuous to pretend that it's not also happening on the Democrat side. And I do appreciate that you're the first Democrat in this thread (and possibly in any of the related threads) to acknowledge that that's the case.

[pseudobrit]

Democrat side

It's Democratic.

Please don't play that stupid game of calling things pertaining to the Democratic Party as "Democrat." The correct adjective is Democratic and you should know that

It's an asinine, tired, disrepectful little joke that I'm sick of seeing.

Oh, and as to your claims: I fail to see how a Democratic effort to get out the vote is in any way, shape or form equal to a Republican effort to suppress it, except that both do it to win.

[Mike Teezie]

This whole thing is such a mess, and frankly, it frightens me a little. It just seems like the thing that, a few elections ago, wouldn't even have been an issue.

Maybe I am naive.

[Chip NoVaMac]

It's Democratic.

Please don't play that stupid game of calling things pertaining to the Democratic Party as "Democrat." The correct adjective is Democratic and you should know that

It's an asinine, tired, disrepectful little joke that I'm sick of seeing.



I am lost with your comments. Democrat I understand refers it's a member or members of the Democratic Party.

I am not aware of it being a "joke" that is offensive. Keep in mind that is from some who is a Democrat.

Maybe I see a point in that Democrat has been allowed use as a adjective; yet there is no similar distinction for Republican. But word usage does change.

[Lyle]

I am lost with your comments. Democrat I understand refers it's a member or members of the Democratic Party.

I am not aware of it being a "joke" that is offensive. Keep in mind that is from some who is a Democrat.Thanks for the sanity check, Chip. I have been poring over my "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy Handbook" trying to find out where we're instructed to insult Democrats in this particular fashion and still haven't found that page. :rolleyes:

[pseudobrit]

I am lost with your comments. Democrat I understand refers it's a member or members of the Democratic Party.

I am not aware of it being a "joke" that is offensive. Keep in mind that is from some who is a Democrat.

Maybe I see a point in that Democrat has been allowed use as a adjective; yet there is no similar distinction for Republican. But word usage does change.

The proper usage is as such:

"He is a Democrat from Louisiana"

"He is a member of the Democratic party"

"He registered with the Democratic party"

"A Democrat wouldn't know the difference"

"Joe was a Democratic strategist for 18 years"

"Your leanings are clearly Democratic, not Republican"

This is not a case of changing word usage. The Republicans, some years ago, decided that to call the Democrats "Democratic" was giving them too much credit, because it applied the adjective of Democracy to them and they were unworthy of such praise. Hence "Democrat Party"

This is not something I just "made up." It's been happening for years; Molly Ivins called it "one of those 'cute' little things Republicans like to do, like calling the inheritance tax the 'Death Tax.'"

http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/repub.htm

and

RABID REPUBLICANS seem to think that “Democrat” as an adjective somehow sounds less euphonious and less respectable than “Democratic.” So, grammatical considerations notwithstanding, they misuse the one word and shun the other.

The genesis of this silliness is not entirely clear. According to one theory, it all started with Sen. Joseph McCarthy, the infamous red-baiter and witch-hunter of a half-century ago. Others say it can be traced to the late 1950s when a man named Meade Alcorn, chairman of the Republican National Committee, issued a directive to his minions to thereafter avoid use of the word “Democratic.”

McCarthy’s example or Alcorn’s admonition, whichever it was, has been heeded to this day among the party’s more zealous elements. And woe to he or she who dares stray from this orthodoxy.

Jay Nordlinger, managing editor of the conservative National Review Online, has written of the guff he gets from some readers for his refusal to misuse “Democrat.” John L. Perry of the even more rightist NewsMax.com also refuses to go along with those who “abuse consciously or misuse ignorantly” the D-word.

from here (http://www.rrstar.com/opinion/columnists/pat/20031106-30424.shtml)

[mactastic]

...you're the first Democrat...

First, my comment about pre-emption was in jest. You took it too seriously. Voter fraud is voter fraud, and I for one would like to see prosecutions with penalties severe enough to make people with careers at stake to think long and hard about crossing over to the dark side.

The only reason I think that Democrats are less guilty of voter fraud issues is that a poor turnout benefits Bush.

Second, don't mistake me for a Democrat. I'm a Liberal. Or Progressive if you find you can't utter the 'L' word. I tolerate the Democratic party, but I'm not by any means a booster. :p

[Thomas Veil]

<lesson on proper use of the terms "Democrat" and "Democratic">
Thanks for the info. Seriously. I'm a Democrat (albeit a progressive one, like mactastic), and I hadn't heard that before.

Really, it only sounds ridiculous because it's so petty...until you remember just how petty some Republicans can get.

[mactastic]

Thanks for the info. Seriously. I'm a Democrat (albeit a progressive one, like mactastic)...

I'm not a democrat. They are just closer to me than the Republicans tend to be, particularly when the Republican standard bearer is a spend-and-spend social conservative.

More to the 'Democrat' vs 'Democratic' thing. I've heard about that particular tactic, however in that case I've pretty much chosen to ignore it rather than fight on that one. It's like my name, most people mispronounce it if they don't see it spelled. It drives my wife crazy, she always corrects people when they get it wrong. Myself, I decided long ago that it's just not worth getting upset about something so trivial so I just go with the mispronounciations. Everyone should know about the distinction and the work of the right in trying to take over the language of debate, but unlike words that actually affect policy (like 'death tax' which should be 'estate tax') calling someone a member of the 'Democrat Party' is only used to insult and try to provoke. So I choose to ignore it. But that's just me. Others may want to throw down the glove over it and I would understand.

[skunk]

It's like my name, most people mispronounce it if they don't see it spelled. It drives my wife crazy, she always corrects people when they get it wrong.
Is that Mrs Mactastic? How can you mispronounce that? :p

[mactastic]

Is that Mrs Mactastic? How can you mispronounce that? :p

Lol, you know, some of us have lives (and names) IRL... :p

[Chip NoVaMac]

Thanks for the info. Seriously. I'm a Democrat (albeit a progressive one, like mactastic), and I hadn't heard that before.

Really, it only sounds ridiculous because it's so petty...until you remember just how petty some Republicans can get.

Now I understand too. Though I doubt (I hope) Lyle had malice in his heart when he used the term Democrat instead of Democratic. I think it is the loosening the linguistic/grammatical standards as the computer age moves on.

In todays world I see little difference between the Democratic and Republican parties. For both it is all about the money. I think there are good many Democrats that sell themselves on Democratic ideals to get votes, but in the end lead the nation as a Republic. Why else did no Senator stand up after the 2000 election to vote on the disenfranchisement of the African-American voter in 2000? Yes, it would have been only symbolic. But the Democratic ideal is to speak for the people.