I'm A Pro User, should I still buy a MacPro?

[tekboi]

Now, since it's clear that Apple doesn't care about the Pro Market, would it be a wise decision to switch to PC. I mean, I don't want to drop over $3,000 on a machine that is 1 1/2 out of date. And I don't to put money into a product line that apple might end up being canceled by apple pretty soon.

Would it be wise to just buy a used MP from ebay or something or just forget my mac plans and get a PC workstation?

[strausd]

Intel isn't supposed to start their mass distribution of the hexa cores til later this month, if I were you and you could wait til the end of the month, I'd do so. But if you need it, then go for it. You could always check Apple's refurb site if you're looking for a cheaper one.

[Orange™]

You know what, go to PC, you'll like it there more.

Bye

[Ravich]

If Apple were really planning on dropping the Mac Pro line, we would see the iMac become a bit more accommodating to pro oriented users.

That being said, if you dont feel like you need a mac, then dont waste money on one.

[hexagonheat]

Now, since it's clear that Apple doesn't care about the Pro Market, would it be a wise decision to switch to PC. I mean, I don't want to drop over $3,000 on a machine that is 1 1/2 out of date. And I don't to put money into a product line that apple might end up being canceled by apple pretty soon.

Would it be wise to just buy a used MP from ebay or something or just forget my mac plans and get a PC workstation?

Just get a workstation. That's what I did. I'm fed up with Apple's limited hardware configurations and outrageous pricing/lag-time for hardware. I like OS X better than the alternatives but it's not worth the price when you think of it. Windows 7 is leaps and bounds further than XP and Vista were in terms of usability, stability, and security. I installed Windows 7 and virtualize Ubuntu where I will do all my online stuff and keep my sensitive data for even more security.

This way I can make a machine for about half the price of a Mac Pro that will be just as good in most applications and even better in others such as gaming since no one will restrict me from using a modern gpu. You will find it much easier and cheaper to upgrade components down the road as well.

There is a void in Apple's hardware lineup and if they fixed it I would buy a mac tower with an up-to-date gpu immediately. Until that time I am quite happy with my desktop.

[Lone Deranger]

What does your software investment tell you?

[Halamolo]

Yes, pros should switch back to Windows, ´cause clearly Apple gives the middle finger to the creative pro community.

[newmacnooby]

You know what, go to PC, you'll like it there more.

Bye

fanboy u can leave with him. bye.

[newmacnooby]

im by no means an expert but you do what u gotta do, i mean i get you like apple and all but if you use your computer for work you just cant let your personal likes and dislikes affect your work if mac pro is just not enough get pc and with the money you save get a macbook pro or i mac for your personal stuff, maybe when macpro catches up (after hearing so many complains) you can buy one... well thats ust what i think, good luck with your choice.

[costabunny]

Yes, pros should switch back to Windows, ´cause clearly Apple gives the middle finger to the creative pro community.

very constructive.... /slap


If the current Mac Pro meeds your needs and you have a software investment then I see no issue. This whole must get updated systems or die attitude is pointless.

If you need a stable high end workstation and the MP sits within your requirements and budget then its a good choice. A comparable HP or Dell dual Xeon workstation class machine is about the same cost (please lets not get into the 'I can build it cheaper with i7 and gamer's parts argument').

I don't get some peoples attitudes about the 'outdated' MP. it does the job or it doesn't: its that simple for most people who earn from their systems. if it does then get one, if not then with wait or consider the options (switching etc).

I do not earn my main income from my systems so I am happy to wait and see, but when my budget allows I shall buy a Mac Pro (current or updated whatever is about at the time). Yes I would get a refurb if there is no update (to save serious pennies - PC World business often have current quads for about £1300).

at the end of the day your needs, budget and way of working will help you determine the answer.

[Halamolo]

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/06/08/does-apple-s-iphone-4-signal-the-death-of-the-macintosh.html

Sorry, it´s over guys.

R.I.P. Mac.

[seisend]

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/06/08/does-apple-s-iphone-4-signal-the-death-of-the-macintosh.html

Sorry, it´s over guys.

R.I.P. Mac.



Gosh , come on. Go home.

[joeco]

If an iphone is updated yearly why would you expect a pro machine to also be updated. It seems to me the lure of new technology is an addictive process. I work in a high end post production facility in soho, london. My workstation was 4/5 years old before I recently got it upgraded. The quality of work does not change with the upgrade but I do notice a significant speed increase over a 4/5 year old machine. I think it is very reasonable to have pro updates every two years no matter how frustrating it might feel, the speed increase of a year old machine is hardly going to fulfill the expectations. The desire to consume a pro machine every year seems wasteful.

ps im still happy with my 2006 mac pro at home and intending to wait till 2012 before upgrading.

[ValSalva]

Maybe you should buy the current Mac Pro - but as a collectable. It could very well be the last Mac Pro. Maybe in 15 or 20 years it could fetch quite a bit as one of the last real computers Apple ever made. Sorry, it's hard to keep a cap on the bitterness.

[IntelliUser]

No, it's not "clear" that Apple doesn't care about the Pro Market because Apple DOES care about the pro market.



Bunch of...

[anim8or]

No, it's not "clear" that Apple doesn't care about the Pro Market because Apple DOES care about the pro market.



Bunch of...

Where is your proof? All signs point in the opposite direction....

Apple's lack of updates to pro hardware and software since the iToy era shows that their focus is purely with money making toys....

..they might care but i would say the care very little!

[300D]

Where is your proof?

They make products for it.

[mcpryon2]

Mac Pros no longer work with "pro apps," go back to Windo...I mean, "PC."

[Murray M]

They make products for it.

Agreed.

Come on you all:

1) They make a MP in the first place
2) They make pro video and sound suites
3) They have for a long time

Don't loose heart just because they're a couple months behind. We're dissapointed because they are obviously spending much of their energy on a different product line. This is ok: the iphone, etc has solidified their biz model. Obviously, many of you who are freaking out didn't live through the mid-nineties as Mac users when everyone was predicting they would be going out of biz soon.

You wanna talk about scary? That was scary.

[anim8or]

They make products for it.

Eh.. don;t you mean they MADE products for it!!!

Just because they are still manufacturing the mac pro and the macbook pro doesn't proove that they still care....!

If they cared they would be working on advancing the lines instead of rehashing them like they have for the past few years.

What happened to the innovative apple that we grew to love... they moved their creative minds to iToys.....!

I thought a company like apple would increase their workforce to compensate for the extra minds needed to develop new prodocts... instead they have taken all the talent from developing the Mac line to the iToy lines.

Hell its not like they cannot afford to increase the workforce instead of diverting existing staff!

[Octobot]

No, it's not "clear" that Apple doesn't care about the Pro Market because Apple DOES care about the pro market.



Bunch of...

+1

Ya'll wake up. Open your eyes. Breath.

[VirtuallyReal]

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/06/08/does-apple-s-iphone-4-signal-the-death-of-the-macintosh.html

Sorry, it´s over guys.

R.I.P. Mac.


A sad day this is.

[Aldaris]

Apple and the Pro Market (Professional and Prosumer in my case).

Keep in mind that many of the Pro hardware and software, when they are released are quite near cutting edge, the software is vastly complex. When we hear Steve talking about, we've been working on this (iPhone 4) for 18 months, how long do you think they work on other products.

There are obviously different prototypes, designs, as well as prototypes from other industry partners, be it intel, samsung, etc. Apple isn't just gonna release something when we want them too (although it'd be nice to see steady upgrades from time to time...).

We all should keep in mind that the Pro Market often leads the core Mac in terms of technology, mostly because they have the room, often times the tech finds its way into the consumer products but overall they often start here.

Expandability is another 'Pro' must, how many video professionals have a PCI-x/e/express that has a video decoder, breakout cables etc. There is no honest USB solution that will make the iMac Pro.

So in the meantime, and i know I'm one that has lead the pack, lets use our best judgement to buy or wait, and it's great to get feedback from other mac users. At the end of the day, we all don't know anything, and are all looking forward to 'next tuesday.'

[PeterQVenkman]

If you need affordable rendering power the PC is the only way to go right now. If you have to use some pro apps like Soft Image or 3ds Max, again, go windows.

[snowboarder]

No, it's not "clear" that Apple doesn't care about the Pro Market because Apple DOES care about the pro market.


Really? Because you say so?
The pro market means nothing to Steve. iAds - that's something.
You do completely nothing and collect a 40% tax.
Why can you do it? Because you have a total control.

Mac Pro, FCP and the entire pro market is making Steve less money
than a week of iAds. And compare the effort - pro support, unhappy
pro customers with their annoying problems and issues.
iAds - silent, but efficient. Cha-Ching!

[HurryKayne]

that's my same fear...
Steve doesn't care about Pro side...
he wants money!!Easy money....
ok...he's quite great with the I-products...
but i did prefer the last year when was Schiller leading....
we saw Imac 27 on fall and Mac Pro Nehalem on March!!!!!!
but now..?
Nothing....this makes feel a little bit sad
'cause i'm scared about a sort of Apple-Pro exit strategy....
I-OS4....Apple A4.....
i don't think any I-machine will ever replace the desktop's power...
but Pro user are less than Iphone-Pod Pad users..so...
but that's only my opinion....

[tekboi]

It's really not an easy decision. I can either buy the top of the line pc and hope that it doesn't freeze, crash, or fail. Or I can buy an outdated piece of hardware for 3x the amount and hope that apple doesn't pull the plug on the whole PRO line.

And the fact that it wasn't even mentioned at WWDC makes me wonder if they will ever even upgrade the MP at all.

I'm an AudioEngineer working with an nearly obsolete PowerMac G4. It has served me well over the years, but it's time for an upgrade. Mac or Pc?

decisions, decisions, decisions.........

[Umbongo]

It's really not an easy decision. I can either buy the top of the line pc and hope that it doesn't freeze, crash, or fail. Or I can buy an outdated piece of hardware for 3x the amount and hope that apple doesn't pull the plug on the whole PRO line.

And the fact that it wasn't even mentioned at WWDC makes me wonder if they will ever even upgrade the MP at all.

I'm an AudioEngineer working with an nearly obsolete PowerMac G4. It has served me well over the years, but it's time for an upgrade. Mac or Pc?

decisions, decisions, decisions.........

You only have to look at the thread titles on a few pages of this sub-forum to see that there are many hardware and software problems with Mac Pros too. A workstation from the likes of Boxx, HP or Dell running Windows 7 is no less reliable than a Mac Pro these days, and the support is decent at that level. Of course you pay for it over building your own system, but the options are better than Apple.

[Halamolo]

So... is it Windows time again? :eek:

[Vantage Point]

Apple's main focus is no longer on their computers. Put it this way, when was the last time they dropped money on those wonderful Mac vs PC commercials???

The life span of their product cycles seems to have gotten longer, MBP, MA, MP... which wouldn't be so bad if they didn't let the line run at the initial price unlike all other electronic companies.

I am a new comer to Apple, only a few months and it seems all the things I heard over the years like having the latest and greatest hardware and getting CPU chips first, and new software being nearly flawless (Aperture 3 didn't even seem to be beta tested), all seem a thing of the past. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mac's but it is no longer Apple Computer, it is Apple Mobile. Again, when was the last time they sprung for a PC vs Apple commercial? I think it was when Windows 7 came out and then.... :(

[BobHail]

My god, I don´t want to go back to Windows again!

But Apple is leaving me with little choises, I can´t believe this day has come that I´m even thinking about this. :(

[JasO]

Would it be wise to just buy a used MP from ebay or something or just forget my mac plans and get a PC workstation?

If you have invested in Mac software and you need it now, get a second hand one off eBay. Either this generation or the one before it.

I'm not sure if Apple will ever stop producing the Mac Pro, but it does seem strange that even the iMac 27 i7 is a heavy rival to the current Mac Pros and it was release ages ago.

[eMerge]

I recently switched to Mac (actually about a month and a half before they brought out the new i5/i7 processor versions). I love my MacBook Pro. To be honest, after being a Windows user for many years, I just don't want to go back right now. I know my MBP will last me a few years, but after that it'll be time to shop again. I can't find many computers that match the Mac's industrial design quality. But I am a creative pro user and I will continue to be. Do y'all really think they have abandoned the Mac Pro? As of right now, it seems like, but they have a pretty good user base for Final Cut Pro and even ProTools users for pro audio I think this would be a total misstep.

At any rate, part of me hopes they'll continue to make computers... because when they do they innovate. This is what I love about their design and built quality. They make every computer count. Now it's just less often I guess...

[REM314]

I recently switched to Mac (actually about a month and a half before they brought out the new i5/i7 processor versions). I love my MacBook Pro. To be honest, after being a Windows user for many years, I just don't want to go back right now. I know my MBP will last me a few years, but after that it'll be time to shop again. I can't find many computers that match the Mac's industrial design quality. But I am a creative pro user and I will continue to be. Do y'all really think they have abandoned the Mac Pro? As of right now, it seems like, but they have a pretty good user base for Final Cut Pro and even ProTools users for pro audio I think this would be a total misstep.

At any rate, part of me hopes they'll continue to make computers... because when they do they innovate. This is what I love about their design and built quality. They make every computer count. Now it's just less often I guess...

I think Mac Laptops are some of the best on the market.

Their desktops however have seemingly been thrown in the trash. We need someone to leave a prototype mac pro at a coffee shop for gismodo.

[rawdawg]

just a thought, could Apple be holding out because of USB 3.0?

[ArcaneDevice]

I think Mac Laptops are some of the best on the market.

Part of the reason the MBP sells is all in the aesthetic. Non-pros think they look good under their arm or in a lecture hall or coffee shop.

Apple is steadily becoming the Bose of the computer world. Making shiny looking products, powered by marketing and hype, for people who have no idea about computers beyond switching them on.

If you are in the market for a new unit and software package it's hard to justify a Mac Pro now. Even the aesthetic of the Mac Pro is well past it's sell-by date. It's rocking a seven year old design which has had a slightly modified internal layout. Of all the products in the Apple catalog, the Mac Pro is the only one that has never had a new shell since then.

Even the "Professional" Apple area hasn't been updated in seven months.
http://www.apple.com/pro/

Thanks for your commitment Apple. :rolleyes:

[Umbongo]

just a thought, could Apple be holding out because of USB 3.0?

Nah. The most likely reason is Intel giving them the processors they want in the quantity they want.

[ArcaneDevice]

just a thought, could Apple be holding out because of USB 3.0?

USB 3.0 boards have been shipping on the PC side since the beginning of the year.

Even if Apple are holding back for Light Peak that's a technology so far ahead of product lines that it could be a year or more before they add it to retail units.

That's too long to justify holding the Mac Pro line back.

[theusualsuspect]

Hackintosh?

It's getting easier every day. All of the benefits of OS X with all of the convenience of cheap hardware.

[jjahshik32]

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/06/08/does-apple-s-iphone-4-signal-the-death-of-the-macintosh.html

Sorry, it´s over guys.

R.I.P. Mac.

That just seems like a temper tantrum made by an apple blogger.

Just because Steve didnt talk about the Mac in WWDC doesnt mean anything. When the time to upgrade comes it'll come. Jeez.

[newmacnooby]

Part of the reason the MBP sells is all in the aesthetic. Non-pros think they look good under their arm or in a lecture hall or coffee shop.

Apple is steadily becoming the Bose of the computer world. Making shiny looking products, powered by marketing and hype, for people who have no idea about computers beyond switching them on.

If you are in the market for a new unit and software package it's hard to justify a Mac Pro now. Even the aesthetic of the Mac Pro is well past it's sell-by date. It's rocking a seven year old design which has had a slightly modified internal layout. Of all the products in the Apple catalog, the Mac Pro is the only one that has never had a new shell since then.

Even the "Professional" Apple area hasn't been updated in seven months.
http://www.apple.com/pro/

Thanks for your commitment Apple. :rolleyes:

fim on the look for a i5 mbp and believe me it has nothing to do with looks its just that over the years i have heard sooooo many good things abut apple, but recently everything i hear is ipad and iphone so i have beagan to be scared of spending all my money on a mbp i mean i starting industrial design studies in 2 moths and i know that my i5 will do the job and will do it in an awsome way...but is it really worth the extra money is it worth spending my hard earned money on a dying mac? Dunno the only thing thats keeping me from getting a PC is that if mac is dying i want to at least have tried it ones... hope i do not regret it.

[nanofrog]

Nah. The most likely reason is Intel giving them the processors they want in the quantity they want.
I see it more as a time factor (validation testing in the case of the MP), as their developers are having to focus on more projects, without a significant number of personnel added to help share the load (keep dev time to around where it's been in the not too distant past).

As per the proccessor supply issue, I've posted on it in a few other threads (last one was directly to your post; has to do with contracts used for direct purchases from Intel).

[wonderspark]

Steve and Apple have Mac users figured out.

They excel in creating hype, and use panic to their advantage.

I think they learned this from the Segway guy. There was this new thing, it's going to change the world, etc. It turned out to be a stupid electric rolling platform that only lame mall-cops use, as far as I can tell.

Steve has done the same thing. He hypes up new products that will "change the world as we know it," and it is always just some cute junk that people have convinced themselves they HAVE to have NOW. It's no different with the "pro" line.

By keeping silent about the newest pro machine, an environment creates itself in which people speculate. We've been trained into a Pavlovian response in which we demand being constantly fed new products. Enter the iPad, and see the feeding frenzy it created. There is only so far that stupid thing can go before the lipstick wears off, but it will hold us over long enough for a new tower to be polished up.

In the meantime, old Macs keep getting older, and the pool of users that feel their machines need updating grows larger. Once it reaches the breaking point... BOOM! Steve hypes up the NEW MAC PRO that kicks the ass of the Sun God Ra himself, and we will tear out the eyes of children to get it after waiting so long.

See, Apple is waiting. This tech wave with i7 and beyond-quad-core was one of the smaller waves, and they're waiting for the bigger waves behind it to come, so they can finish bigger with more style.

In my opinion, there is evidence of this in the cycle / waves of Android vs. iPhones. The 3G and 3GS were on top, then they let the android market swoop in behind them, but on a smaller wave at first. Android started to pick up and fill out, getting cooler, more hip, more widespread... and Apple throws out the iPad-iPhone 4 one-two punch. It's all just a little bit better than Android - - better screen resolution, front and rear cameras, multi-tasking (finally) and powerful enough to edit HD video on. (Edit video on a stupid phone, really? That's another rant for another time.) Now they're on top again in the mobile market, and it will take that much more effort for their competitors to out-surf them in the next heat.

Apple will build a new Mac Pro, and it will be scrumtrulescent. The pros will suck from the teats of it, savoring the nectar it gives with crack-like addiction, and have no problem justifying the increased cost, because it's the top of the big wave again.

I jumped on this train right as the 3.33GHz model came out, and I'm happy. I think it will last long enough to allow me to skip one wave (Mac Pro 5,1) and jump on the following Mac Pro 6,1 wave. I don't believe pros will be editing feature films on phones in five, ten or even twenty years, but things will change for sure.

Why sweat it? Go with the flow, mang.

[tekboi]

Steve and Apple have Mac users figured out.

They excel in creating hype, and use panic to their advantage.

I think they learned this from the Segway guy. There was this new thing, it's going to change the world, etc. It turned out to be a stupid electric rolling platform that only lame mall-cops use, as far as I can tell.

Steve has done the same thing. He hypes up new products that will "change the world as we know it," and it is always just some cute junk that people have convinced themselves they HAVE to have NOW. It's no different with the "pro" line.

By keeping silent about the newest pro machine, an environment creates itself in which people speculate. We've been trained into a Pavlovian response in which we demand being constantly fed new products. Enter the iPad, and see the feeding frenzy it created. There is only so far that stupid thing can go before the lipstick wears off, but it will hold us over long enough for a new tower to be polished up.

In the meantime, old Macs keep getting older, and the pool of users that feel their machines need updating grows larger. Once it reaches the breaking point... BOOM! Steve hypes up the NEW MAC PRO that kicks the ass of the Sun God Ra himself, and we will tear out the eyes of children to get it after waiting so long.

See, Apple is waiting. This tech wave with i7 and beyond-quad-core was one of the smaller waves, and they're waiting for the bigger waves behind it to come, so they can finish bigger with more style.

In my opinion, there is evidence of this in the cycle / waves of Android vs. iPhones. The 3G and 3GS were on top, then they let the android market swoop in behind them, but on a smaller wave at first. Android started to pick up and fill out, getting cooler, more hip, more widespread... and Apple throws out the iPad-iPhone 4 one-two punch. It's all just a little bit better than Android - - better screen resolution, front and rear cameras, multi-tasking (finally) and powerful enough to edit HD video on. (Edit video on a stupid phone, really? That's another rant for another time.) Now they're on top again in the mobile market, and it will take that much more effort for their competitors to out-surf them in the next heat.

Apple will build a new Mac Pro, and it will be scrumtrulescent. The pros will suck from the teats of it, savoring the nectar it gives with crack-like addiction, and have no problem justifying the increased cost, because it's the top of the big wave again.

I jumped on this train right as the 3.33GHz model came out, and I'm happy. I think it will last long enough to allow me to skip one wave (Mac Pro 5,1) and jump on the following Mac Pro 6,1 wave. I don't believe pros will be editing feature films on phones in five, ten or even twenty years, but things will change for sure.

Why sweat it? Go with the flow, mang.

That's actually a pretty good theory my man. Sounds about right.

I'm leaning towards getting a used machine from ebay at this point. I really don't want to go back to windows right now. I have a feeling i'm going to regret this later...

[surferfromuk]

There seems to be a lot of people in the Mac Pro Forum who are engaged in endless frenzied posting desperately trying to convince you that you shouldn't buy a Mac Pro - Keep waiting, get a PC, Hackintosh.

I suspect when a new one arrives they'll say 'might as well wait until April when some other amazing technology is rumoured to arrive. It actually all adds up to the same message : - 'don't get a Mac!'

Well, all I can say is that's a bunch of crap!

As a working pro I can tell you that the current Mac Pro is the best most powerful well built, well designed Mac that has ever been built and that you could ever buy and it offers you an amazingly productive professional workstation experience. Quite simply it will work hard every day

If you like Macs and you can afford it then why the heck not!

[deconstruct60]

Mac Pro, FCP and the entire pro market is making Steve less money
than a week of iAds.

In the keynote Jobs said had $60M on table for iAds for second half of the year. Total... not profits; that was total revenue stream. If the pro market revenue was that small for 6 months it should be killed off. The "hobby" AppleTV ecosystem probably does more revenue than that.

These threads increasing bare a resemblance to what small kids say when a new baby brother/sister comes home and they aren't getting the same attention timeslices from their parents.


Given Intel isn't streaming 32nm Xeon parts at will and the gaps in the 3600 line up ( no 3620 or 3640 ) there is stuff missing that would go into a volume new Mac Pro release. If Intel had removed or sustantively lowered the prices on the 3500 and 5500 Xeons make have point that the tech is old and decrepit. Intel is selling it at same price as last year. A few minor speed bumps in the 3500/5500 series but the new Xeon's recently released all came in at higher prices than last year's releases.

Similarly Dell, HP, and other larger established vendors continue to sell "last years" models at approximately the same price for workstation class boxes. Again like Intel, tacked on more models on top of the old line up which they continue to sell. Apple may not be matching them press release by press release, but to large extent doing exactly the same thing while keeping the number of models shipped constant.

If Apple can't do the six primary configs they want to drop they just won't drop them until they can. They aren't going bump up the number of primary configs just because. If Intel sticks to their pricing, Apple moving to all new stuff is just going to drive prices higher.

If in the next couple of weeks Intel flushes out the 3600 line, drops prices on 3500/5500 series because "last years stuff", minor price drop on 3600/5600 to match now "old" previous generation prices, and then Apple doesn't deliver ... that would lax. However, if Apple waits till then and ships new workstations at the same price at now (no price hikes)..... what is wrong with that? Being "early" and matching Dell/HP even on press releases just would have meant those folks that bought in the first 2-3 months got screwed. Imagine what the threads would look like in that case. (well I guess would look alot like this one. )

[hugodrax]

Now, since it's clear that Apple doesn't care about the Pro Market, would it be a wise decision to switch to PC. I mean, I don't want to drop over $3,000 on a machine that is 1 1/2 out of date. And I don't to put money into a product line that apple might end up being canceled by apple pretty soon.

Would it be wise to just buy a used MP from ebay or something or just forget my mac plans and get a PC workstation?

If you have to ask you are not a pro user. Buy a PC, you can build it with the latest components and play your favorite games at 200fps.

[TennisandMusic]

These threads increasing bare a resemblance to what small kids say when a new baby brother/sister comes home and they aren't getting the same attention timeslices from their parents.



Don't you mean...facetime?

[VGC]

Keeping a smaller but high end division like the Mac Pro line up and running still makes sense if you think in terms of auto companies having racing divisions that push the performance edge and then let the technology trickle down. Or limited high-end performance vehicles at the top of the line. The high end products become aspirational. The buyer of a 3-series BMW knows that the development that went into the hugely expensive M6 is making the next 330i a better car.

Same thing here. The Pro division doesn't lost money, and it makes complete sense to keep it if for nothing more than the coolness factor to those looking to pick up an iMac.

Personally, I don't care so much about a major overhaul. Just give me the 12 cores and the option to order it with an nVidia card that's recommended for CS5 and I'll be happy. Oh, and a blue ray drive. And a puppy.

[Salavat23]

It's really not an easy decision. I can either buy the top of the line pc and hope that it doesn't freeze, crash, or fail.

This isn't 1998.

I don't know why so many of you guys here share that flawed mentality that Windows = unreliable. If anything, today Windows is more reliable than OS X, relative to their market share.

[Icaras]

This isn't 1998.



Or, 2007 :D

[the editor]

Steve and Apple have Mac users figured out.

They excel in creating hype, and use panic to their advantage.

I think they learned this from the Segway guy. There was this new thing, it's going to change the world, etc. It turned out to be a stupid electric rolling platform that only lame mall-cops use, as far as I can tell.

Steve has done the same thing. He hypes up new products that will "change the world as we know it," and it is always just some cute junk that people have convinced themselves they HAVE to have NOW. It's no different with the "pro" line.

By keeping silent about the newest pro machine, an environment creates itself in which people speculate. We've been trained into a Pavlovian response in which we demand being constantly fed new products. Enter the iPad, and see the feeding frenzy it created. There is only so far that stupid thing can go before the lipstick wears off, but it will hold us over long enough for a new tower to be polished up.

In the meantime, old Macs keep getting older, and the pool of users that feel their machines need updating grows larger. Once it reaches the breaking point... BOOM! Steve hypes up the NEW MAC PRO that kicks the ass of the Sun God Ra himself, and we will tear out the eyes of children to get it after waiting so long.

See, Apple is waiting. This tech wave with i7 and beyond-quad-core was one of the smaller waves, and they're waiting for the bigger waves behind it to come, so they can finish bigger with more style.

In my opinion, there is evidence of this in the cycle / waves of Android vs. iPhones. The 3G and 3GS were on top, then they let the android market swoop in behind them, but on a smaller wave at first. Android started to pick up and fill out, getting cooler, more hip, more widespread... and Apple throws out the iPad-iPhone 4 one-two punch. It's all just a little bit better than Android - - better screen resolution, front and rear cameras, multi-tasking (finally) and powerful enough to edit HD video on. (Edit video on a stupid phone, really? That's another rant for another time.) Now they're on top again in the mobile market, and it will take that much more effort for their competitors to out-surf them in the next heat.

Apple will build a new Mac Pro, and it will be scrumtrulescent. The pros will suck from the teats of it, savoring the nectar it gives with crack-like addiction, and have no problem justifying the increased cost, because it's the top of the big wave again.

I jumped on this train right as the 3.33GHz model came out, and I'm happy. I think it will last long enough to allow me to skip one wave (Mac Pro 5,1) and jump on the following Mac Pro 6,1 wave. I don't believe pros will be editing feature films on phones in five, ten or even twenty years, but things will change for sure.

Why sweat it? Go with the flow, mang.

:D

[the editor]

This isn't 1998.

I don't know why so many of you guys here share that flawed mentality that Windows = unreliable. If anything, today Windows is more reliable than OS X, relative to their market share.

exactly.

i read all the time that Mac users so do not want to move to windows because it crashes, freezes...explodes what not. Seriously ive been working with windows7 & Mac OS and to be honest, windows 7 is just as stable as Mac OS, i had it freeze on me but so did my Mac OS. Some things are better in Windows7 , some things are better in Mac OS. i even saw a windows 7 os that was so customized it looked even more sweet than Snow leopard...:D

[hexagonheat]

exactly.

i read all the time that Mac users so do not want to move to windows because it crashes, freezes...explodes what not. Seriously ive been working with windows7 & Mac OS and to be honest, windows 7 is just as stable as Mac OS, i had it freeze on me but so did my Mac OS. Some things are better in Windows7 , some things are better in Mac OS. i even saw a windows 7 os that was so customized it looked even more sweet than Snow leopard...:D

I also agree because I own both operating systems so it allows me to see both sides. On average, Snow Leopard on my MB crashes with about the same frequency as my Windows 7 workstation. I scan both systems regularly with my free anti-virus software and I've never had anything reported. I never do maintenance on either machine besides virus scanning when I go to bed and they're both running great. I built my win7 machine myself which I think is the best route. But if someone wasn't comfortable with doing so and decided to go the Dell or HP route, I would suggest a reinstall of the OS when you get the machine just to clean off all bloatware they install.

[Icaras]

Or, 2007 :D

exactly.

i read all the time that Mac users so do not want to move to windows because it crashes, freezes...explodes what not. Seriously ive been working with windows7 & Mac OS and to be honest, windows 7 is just as stable as Mac OS, i had it freeze on me but so did my Mac OS. Some things are better in Windows7 , some things are better in Mac OS. i even saw a windows 7 os that was so customized it looked even more sweet than Snow leopard...:D

Windows 7? Stable? Sure.

But that's why I also referenced the year 2007. Don't forget the lovely Vista.

[nanofrog]

...decided to go the Dell or HP route, I would suggest a reinstall of the OS when you get the machine just to clean off all bloatware they install.
The enterprise/business systems tend to be devoid of the additional crap that comes on the consumer systems, which is what you get if buying a Dell Precision T3500 or T5500 system for example.

Windows 7? Stable? Sure.

But that's why I also referenced the year 2007. Don't forget the lovely Vista.
Vista was a mess when they first released it. SP1 improved matters significantly, and SP2 is now out. That said, Windows 7 is still better IMO for stability.

Though the worst thing is actually Internet Explorer 8. Fortunately, there are other browsers out there. ;)

[snowboarder]

In the keynote Jobs said had $60M on table for iAds for second half of the year. Total... not profits

That's what they got in 8 days before officially starting up iAds.
Imagine how much they will be getting really.

[deconstruct60]

That's what they got in 8 days before officially starting up iAds.
Imagine how much they will be getting really.

8 weeks. They announced iPhone OS 4 (and iAds) weeks ago... not days ago. And they were pitching to folks before the announcement. Also, unless they shot the previous customers the ad company they bought had in the head, they had a customer list to start with.


The second factor is that there is a fixed amount of money for ads. Some companies may slightly boost they ad budget but for the most part for this year the ad budgets are fixed. They might canablilize their TV/print budgets a bit, but not going to be a huge shift at first.

Jobs quoted that an estimate for the whole mobile market ad market was around $250M for 2010 ( $125M for second half) . That's probably a bit low if can get ads up on iPads and expanding Android market. However, $250M is about 84K Mac Pros units at $3,000. Even if took over the whole $125M is about 42K Mac Pros units sold in 6 months. If the run rate on Mac Pros is in the sub 100K units/yr range it has problems. Big problems.

[nanofrog]

If the run rate on Mac Pros is in the sub 100K units/yr range it has problems. Big problems.
Absolutely, and as the specific models aren't broken down from the computer sales figures, some are seriously wondering if that's actually happened.

The current pricing has reinforced the concern that the quantity is in fact low. No proof of anything, but a fair number of members are growing concerned over this issue, particularly given those with extensive software investments in OS X applications.

It's rather easy for software to out-cost the system, and switching may not be viable if such a move is unplanned (due to a lack of funds, as they were never set aside). This could be an absolute disaster if there's no alternatives (existing system no longer viable to "buy time" in order to fund the switch, virtualization not possible or viable, cluster isn't an option,...).

[Freyqq]

very constructive.... /slap


If the current Mac Pro meeds your needs and you have a software investment then I see no issue. This whole must get updated systems or die attitude is pointless.

If you need a stable high end workstation and the MP sits within your requirements and budget then its a good choice. A comparable HP or Dell dual Xeon workstation class machine is about the same cost (please lets not get into the 'I can build it cheaper with i7 and gamer's parts argument').

I don't get some peoples attitudes about the 'outdated' MP. it does the job or it doesn't: its that simple for most people who earn from their systems. if it does then get one, if not then with wait or consider the options (switching etc).

I do not earn my main income from my systems so I am happy to wait and see, but when my budget allows I shall buy a Mac Pro (current or updated whatever is about at the time). Yes I would get a refurb if there is no update (to save serious pennies - PC World business often have current quads for about £1300).

at the end of the day your needs, budget and way of working will help you determine the answer.

it's hard for anyone's budget to justify purchasing a computer that is using hardware over a year old that costs just as much as the day it was released. The PC market has already moved to higher end hardware, there is little justification besides OSX to stay with the mac pro line at this point. OSX is a good excuse for a while, but when you're about to drop $3000, you want some current-gen hardware to justify the price.

[ukmacpro]

I agree with most of what has been said here, not all of it...

Look at what software you use, whether you can afford to wait, or whether you can afford to lose a bit of value when the next Mac Pro is released...

The current Mac Pro is still a pretty powerful piece of kit. Perhaps there are other machines out there that are more powerful and cheaper, but it's still the design of the thing that gets me every time. The reason the design hasn't been refreshed is there isn't really much more you can do with it. Everything inside is so accessible and easy to access. I'm still running a Mac Pro 1,1 I've upgraded hard disks over time, and added some RAM, but the thing still runs Large Logic Studio projects without much fuss.

Yes, I guess it would be nice to have the latest and greatest, but until I start running in to problems with Logic I don't see the need to upgrade.

Buy refurbished from Apple too... I've always bought refurbished, you can often get a great deal and they've always been rock solid in terms of reliability.

[nastebu]

That just seems like a temper tantrum made by an apple blogger.

Just because Steve didnt talk about the Mac in WWDC doesnt mean anything. When the time to upgrade comes it'll come. Jeez.

Especially when they have made it completely clear that the focus for this year is the iOS stuff. So the focus next year may well be the Mac. Just because the topic of conversation is on one doesn't mean the other is going to be thrown away. It's like saying that because everyone is talking about soccer two days before the World Cup that baseball is going to be cancelled next season.

[Freyqq]

8 weeks. They announced iPhone OS 4 (and iAds) weeks ago... not days ago. And they were pitching to folks before the announcement. Also, unless they shot the previous customers the ad company they bought had in the head, they had a customer list to start with.


The second factor is that there is a fixed amount of money for ads. Some companies may slightly boost they ad budget but for the most part for this year the ad budgets are fixed. They might canablilize their TV/print budgets a bit, but not going to be a huge shift at first.

Jobs quoted that an estimate for the whole mobile market ad market was around $250M for 2010 ( $125M for second half) . That's probably a bit low if can get ads up on iPads and expanding Android market. However, $250M is about 84K Mac Pros units at $3,000. Even if took over the whole $125M is about 42K Mac Pros units sold in 6 months. If the run rate on Mac Pros is in the sub 100K units/yr range it has problems. Big problems.

yeah, but you can't just think about it from a pure profit perspective. Not offering a pro desktop means pros won't want to invest in mac software and macs in general. How many pros do you know that don't own multiple macs? Pros in general are a niche market, but not offering pro-level products cheapens the brand for sure. It's as if saying, we can't compete with everyone else at the pro level, we just have cheap consumer grade stuff for sale.

[tuna]

I seem to remember that Mac Pros have been priced very competitively when they are fresh in their product cycle. Like when the current Mac Pro dual processor model was new, you could go on pricewatch.com (popular computer component shopping aggregator) and the whole Mac Pro cost about as much as the two Xeon processors alone.

I mean its typical of Macs to be better bargains when they are fresh in their product cycle (and the current Mac is very old) and its typical of Macs that Apple adjusts the timing of refreshes to take advantage of new hardware options that make significant improvements in either performance or cost.

So yeah, according to the Macrumors buyer's guide the current Mac Pro is 464 days old. Obviously you wouldn't want to buy the same computer for the same price today as you could have 464 days ago. Rumors seem to indicate an imminent refresh with brand new 6 core chips, and if history is any indication, the Mac Pro will be a relatively fine deal.

[deconstruct60]

yeah, but you can't just think about it from a pure profit perspective.


Apple can't ? While profit doesn't have to be single sole measure, it is extremely important; it is a necessary factor. If not profitable then it is over. It doesn't matter what the other considerations are if that one is not present.



Not offering a pro desktop means pros won't want to invest in mac software and macs in general.


If it doesn't generate a profit for the company that is too bad. If pros are not buying the Mac Pros in sufficient volume they aren't really investing in macs in general either. Has to be a two sided commitment.

Apple is a large company. That just comes with overhead. If not enough volume then either prices have to spike or they drop the product. All indications are that Apple is trying to hold the prices constant so that can continue to offer the product.

Likewise software vendors will shift to folks who pay. The system price ( software and hardware) will get more expensive as the volume goes down. A classic example is the IBM 360 line. Originally was suppose to be a line that spanned the small, medium, and large computers. Over time it morphed into only the large/expensive computers. IBM still makes tons of money off it because the folks left are so hooked to the systems (and can still make money for the customers even at sky high prices). At this point is in a slow cash cow extraction process. The high expense leads to growth stagnating which over time leads to higher prices. Negative feedback cycle.


The Mac OS X software that only runs on Pros is a niche of a niche. That is not something to form the justification basis for a product line.



, but not offering pro-level products cheapens the brand for sure.


Offering non quality products cheapens the brand. If Apple drops the Mac Pro and keeps as high (or higher) quality on the rest of all of products that does absolutely nothing to cheapen the brand.

Are Mac Pros boxes crap because Apple dropped the XRaid boxes? Absolutely not. They are two different products.

You seem to be laboring under the game that many PC (and some car) vendors play. They are "quality" vendor because offer some high end quality line so never mind that hacked up quality line of products they ship at lower prices. The spin is that the lower end line is "better brand" because of the higher end stuff.



It's as if saying, we can't compete with everyone else at the pro level, we just have cheap consumer grade stuff for sale.

The consumer stuff is not "cheap" in low quality. It is "cheap" as in more affordable. All of Apples stuff is over average selling price ( and quality) for the given product category. Just because remove some items and deliver at a lower price doesn't make it "cheap"/low quality.

Apple already doesn't compete in the bigger than 1U server category. Nor in the the $100K computer market. As much of folks posture that the "workstation" market is "pro" the high end server market is even more pro.
If Apple shipped a $80K 5U server that would not necessarily "boost" its brand higher.

Superior execution and delivering consistent high value proposition builds brand. It is not one product line versus another.

[deconstruct60]

I seem to remember that Mac Pros have been priced very competitively when they are fresh in their product cycle. Like when the current Mac Pro dual processor model was new, you could go on pricewatch.com (popular computer component shopping aggregator) and the whole Mac Pro cost about as much as the two Xeon processors alone.


Your memory is off. Apple doesn't sell new products below the cost of the bill of materials. You may be comparing a Mac Pro system with a lower end Xeon to the price of two of the "got more money than sense", highest bleeding edge Xeons. That is comparing "apples to oranges". There is little to deduce from that exercise.

Furthermore, Intel's typical pricing is worse (consumer perspective) at the start of the cycle than toward the end. That the stereotypical thinking that is driving some to whine about not getting cost cuts at the tail end of the cycle. That is despite Intel not really following that process on Xeons for last few cycles.

For example, Intel dropped the highest end 6 core processors on the desktop market. Max speed and max core at $999 levels. $999 spent and don't even have a box to put the CPU in. Intel extracts max profits from those who want to be on the far extreme of their lineup. Typically, Apple doesn't go there if given a choice. Sure in the upper 50-90% of the price range on Intel CPUs. They tend to avoid the CPUs where Intel is sucking max profit margin.

Obviously you wouldn't want to buy the same computer for the same price today as you could have 464 days ago.

If it is the right time to buy you do. There are two factors at play here. How old your box is and where Apple is on the release cycle. If your box isn't that old then holding out for another couple of months may be worth it. However, you should only "kick the can" down the road only so long.

For example, follow a strategy that buy new box when 80% to 100% faster than current box then may be time to move up. Passing up doubling performance is a rather strange move. A later delivery of an even newer box will only be maybe 20% faster in optimal conditions (100% versus 120% not really a big deal). It is extremely unlikely going to be some huge price drop.

The difference between a 80% and 100% faster is rather hard differentiate in the short run. Both should have enough headroom to allow for several years of operation. If the machine generates enough revenue to pay for itself in a cycle shorter than your upgrade frequency there is not a huge problem.

Folks try to bring up corner cases where current workload overwhelms all but the most bleeding edge offering. If Mac Pros are increasing at 20% a year and your workload/machine demands are increasing at 20+% a year then you need different systems. Or perhaps at least different software to either get more work out of the systems or make farming work out to a cluster easier.

[ZebraineZ]

As much as I love apple, and not trolling but honestly the PC/Windows has already proven better than Apple these days, Apple's only good computer that they make is the macbook in my opinion, it's unmatched, but the iMac and Mac Pro is just pathetic and you could buy a better PC or if you want build your own for a much better price and in this case raw spec sheets do count in how you use your device.

Windows, which not many people always realize, has a lot of professional apps that are either direct competitors to OS X, down to the most basic software, that already surpass whatever OS X offers, for rendering, for graphics/photography, for film, for audio, for gaming, for everything!

You got Avid MC, you got Pro Tools, you got Adobe CS5, and all those rendering products, and even though these are all on OS X as well they are on Windows so you could do the same on either system, minus Apple's own pro apps that they don't update anymore...

I have a macbook and I love it to death, design and portability and functionality is top notch but I will never in my life ever get a Mac desktop, ever, and I urge you to do the same. If you got tons of money to spend, even better for Windows :) and if you ever need mac like safety and stability and things that 'just work' install Ubuntu if you ever run into any road bumps with Windows.

[deconstruct60]

it's hard for anyone's budget to justify purchasing a computer that is using hardware over a year old that costs just as much as the day it was released.

If nothing new is introduced that is significantly better performance at a significantly different price .... then it is easy. Baring external changes why does the value proposition go down on a piece of hardware. It is just as fast as it when introduced. There is way too much emphasis being placed on "year" and all too little being placed on the supposed alternatives that either don't exist (no "next gen characteristics" option released) or are more expensive. In the first latter case there isn't anything to release and in the latter case I suspect Apple gets truckloads of email/feedback on how their systems costs too much (again not really a good option if don't want more hate mail ) .


There is also little cost containment justification to go with tweaking specs on boxes at a rapid pace from a long term , lifecycle support perspective. Why Apple ship multiple configs in a year. That just means more variations to keep track of. That increases costs.

The frenzy in the PC market is sometimes as much about trying to get some attention through some very minor variations than on delivering better value. 90 vendors can't all be on the exact same release cycle and release dates so get varying stuff. That doesn't mean any one vendor should have that same frenzy inside of its own product line. There is little evidence that is actually a best practice move. Even less so in the server/workstation market.

[apolloa]

Now, since it's clear that Apple doesn't care about the Pro Market, would it be a wise decision to switch to PC. I mean, I don't want to drop over $3,000 on a machine that is 1 1/2 out of date. And I don't to put money into a product line that apple might end up being canceled by apple pretty soon.

Would it be wise to just buy a used MP from ebay or something or just forget my mac plans and get a PC workstation?

Buy a PC. Never come back to Mac again.
You have obviously been taken in far too much by all the BS about Apple 'forgetting' it's Pro customers or that the Mac Pro will be 'canceled' soon. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[RT2020]

It will certainly not be investing in anything Mac unless things change. Im pretty sure they wont

RIP, Mac
RIP, OSX
**** off, iTard divices

[MrBrekke]

just a thought, could Apple be holding out because of USB 3.0?

Not USB at all it is Light Peak they are waiting on.


USB 3.0 boards have been shipping on the PC side since the beginning of the year.

Even if Apple are holding back for Light Peak that's a technology so far ahead of product lines that it could be a year or more before they add it to retail units.

That's too long to justify holding the Mac Pro line back.

Remember that Apple have developed this technology and intel have demoed it, first on a Mac Pro and recently they demoed in on a a Windows laptop.

Light Peak is due next year. But i will bet that apple have exclusive rights to be the first to the market. Preferable several months.

[nanofrog]

Remember that Apple have developed this technology and intel have demoed it, first on a Mac Pro and recently they demoed in on a a Windows laptop.

Light Peak is due next year. But i will bet that apple have exclusive rights to be the first to the market. Preferable several months.
There is conflicting information on the details as to Apple's involvement, but the actual development hasn't been done by Apple. It's Intel and other partners.

As per the demo units, the first one at the 2009 IDF was cobbled together using PC parts, not Apple's (I've posted on this before - look closely at the pics of the system, as it's a PC PSU, and even uses a blue LED fan on the CPU cooler).

I do beleive Apple's contributed the OS X code, as it's in their best interest to develop it now, so as to be sure they've got it ready when parts become available. That's the whole point of getting Evaluation boards (which are all that's actually available right now), as you use it to develop firmware and drivers, then perform validation testing (wash, rinse, repeat, until it's working properly).

[deconstruct60]

Not USB at all it is Light Peak they are waiting on.

Lightpeak is not a replacement to USB 3.0 It is complementary because they each perform a difference service. USB 3.0 extends the USB protocol and Lightpeak consolidates multiprotocol traffic onto a single fiber ("wire" ).

When USB 3.0 was initially announced it had fiber. That got toasted by vendors who have common USB devices. Way too much overkill coupled with increased costs ... it did nothing but either kill margins more or potentially piss off customers who would have to pay more exactly the same performance. Sure fiber costs will go down but so does the tech associated with USB 2.0/3.0. If drop at same rate the older one is cheaper. Exactly why tons of FW400 and USB 1.1 devices still floating around now.



Apple could drop USB 3.0 now if deployed the USB/xHCI driver framework required (other OS have done this, Linux, or due real soon now, Window 7 sp1 ) and nuked FW. (just replace the USB 3.0 on the PCI connector position that the FW controller is at. That would minimize board and case adjustments needed. ) Apple would piss off folk, but have done it before ( drop floppy , drop ADB , ADC connectors , etc. )

However, if they want to maximize profits reportedly it is easier just to do only the minor tweaks to the board to enable the 5600/3600 series processors.



Light Peak is due next year.


Says which peripheral vendor? Has any major peripheral vendor even expressed high interest? Have gotten comments out of Intel, Apple, and Sony but how about significant vendors who is going to put something on the "other side" of the Lightpeak cable ?

Intel demo'ed USB 3.0 at a 2008 IDF session:
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2008/08/idf-intel-offers-early-peek-at-usb-3-0-performance.ars
And how many Larrabee demos did Intel do over last couple of years? It is shipping when ?

It is 2010 and Intel isn't shipping USB 3.0. That is not all that uncommon with IDF demo. The tech doesn't get deployed for years. How is Lightpeak going to shave year(s) off the normal IDF demo to product deployment timescale ?

Unless this gets onto a standards process then it is a nice demo. Don't see it getting deep traction though.

[deconstruct60]

If Mac Pros are increasing at 20% a year and your workload/machine demands are increasing at 20+% a year then you need different systems. Or perhaps at least different software to either get more work out of the systems or make farming work out to a cluster easier.

Not sure if Apple would follow this path but this might quell lots of wailing about Mac Pros with rendering cap problems.

http://www.boxxtech.com/products/renderPRO/pro_overview.asp

Since runs a different OS, you conceptually could stack one on top of a Mac Pro. Not exactly in the "I hacked it up for $1,200 range" solution. More like $2-4K (http://www.vizworld.com/2010/05/boxx-announces-renderpro-series/) and just incrementally bumping up workstation power. ( the software costs are likely the more non trivial dollar factor). Lowering costs (verus another workstation ) doesn't seem to be much of a factor here. it is price premium for space.



[ could probably trim the hardware costs by dropping PCI slot and a few touches on drives to make them cheaper or just get rid of them completely (pull data from server). Just CPU(s), RAM and some couple different network I/O options. It would be a sort of XServe mini as opposed to a scaled up Mac mini. ]

[MrBrekke]

There is conflicting information on the details as to Apple's involvement, but the actual development hasn't been done by Apple. It's Intel and other partners.

As per the demo units, the first one at the 2009 IDF was cobbled together using PC parts, not Apple's (I've posted on this before - look closely at the pics of the system, as it's a PC PSU, and even uses a blue LED fan on the CPU cooler).

I do beleive Apple's contributed the OS X code, as it's in their best interest to develop it now, so as to be sure they've got it ready when parts become available. That's the whole point of getting Evaluation boards (which are all that's actually available right now), as you use it to develop firmware and drivers, then perform validation testing (wash, rinse, repeat, until it's working properly).


Look closely at the motherboards that is Apple motherboards. have look at the video and see for yourself.

so they used a custom PSU and a fancy CPU cooler fan....

http://macblips.dailyradar.com/video/intel-light-peak-demo-idf-2009/

Forgot to double quote so i am taking it here.

anyway apple had plans for Light Peak in all their devises even the iPone/iPod back in 2007

Light Peak is not a replacement to USB 3.0
in the long run it is meant to replace all the others.

[nanofrog]

Look closely at the motherboards that is Apple motherboards. have look at the video and see for yourself.

so they used a custom PSU and a fancy CPU cooler fan....

http://macblips.dailyradar.com/video/intel-light-peak-demo-idf-2009/

Forgot to double quote so i am taking it here.

anyway apple had plans for Light Peak in all their devises even the iPone/iPod back in 2007


in the long run it is meant to replace all the others.
I have seen it, as well as still pics. It appears as an Intel board to me, not Apple branded.

BTW, Intel has made Apple's boards in the past <'06 - '08 for sure>, and some of thier own can run EFI firmware (server product line, not just Itanium based).

They use blue (Desktop (http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DP55WG/DP55WG-overview.htm)), green (Workstation (http://www.intel.com/products/workstation/motherboards/wx58bp/wx58bp-overview.htm) and Server), and black (Extreme (http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DX58SO/DX58SO-overview.htm)) for the solder masks on currently available products.

[deconstruct60]

Look closely at the motherboards that is Apple motherboards. have look at the video and see for yourself.


Are you inferring they are Apple motherboards because running MacOS X ?
There are no Apple markings on those boards. Intel may also have special permission to run hackintosh systems in their R&D labs. That would be prudent for Apple to allow when Intel is working on earlier prototype silicon and wants to collect data for how it works when running MacOS X.

On youtube the next closely linked video is this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGevFIVKw4&NR=1

No MacOS in sight. Also the far more closer to production Lighghtpeat PCI card appears to be the same color ( given the difference lighting).






anyway apple had plans for Light Peak in all their devises even the iPone/iPod back in 2007


Chuckle, yeah when Intel was shopping fiber based USB 3.0 to Apple back in 2007-2008 there probably were long term roadmap plans to put a "fiber based connector" on iPhone and iPod .

Apple going with some connector that is not extremely wide spread across all computers is dubious. If thought that was a good idea never would have dropped firewire for USB.

Intel has been shopping "fiber" and USB in some format or another for a very long time now.

Apple also like still have roadmap improvements aligned with USB 3.0 ( even though it is not fiber anymore) for iPhone/iPod . It is faster than 2.0 . It doesn't have to be revised to include power. It will be widely adopted and deployed sooner.



in the long run it is meant to replace all the others.

In short, you have to look at what lightpeak actually does. What is actually does is not what USB does. USB hub/spoke network of single protocol and legacy compatibility modes. Minimizing transmission infrastructure costs from low cost devices.

Lightpeak takes communication transmissions of several different protocols and transmits them to another device where decoded back into native protocols.

So no it is not a replacement. Intel would not like to portray this as yet another new connector and protocol. It is. The spin here is twofold.

1. Maybe, eventually, we can drop those other ones. There is no plan. There is no low cost support for replacement .... just hand waving allusions to eventually the billion devices currently out there coupled with the billion soon to be deployed ones will all die off and then everyone will have bought new ones with lightpeak. If that is the plan, it isn't going to happen.


2. Because run the legacy protocols over the new one it is "compatible". It isn't. If you plug a USB device into a lightpeak socket it won't work. It only works if there is a lightpeak router on either side of the lightpeak connection.
usb traffic gets encoded , then transmitted to another side, then decoded back to USB again on the other side. That isn't compatible at the end points. It makes an adjustment to the middle, long distance part of the transmission which is nice. However, need to add hardware a both end to make it transparent.

Your keyboard, mouse , usb thumb flash drive , etc. are not likely at all to transition to this new solution. Primarily because it is more expensive for little or no value added. There are tons of devices which get by currently and will get by in the long term future just fine with USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 transmission limitations with the current mechanism. Claims of "Fiber and transmitters will get cheaper for Lightpeak" makes zero sense. Almost all of the exact same forces will make the current mechanism gets cheaper also. Even when the difference is a couple of cents (not dollars) the lower one will still win. For sub 5Gb/s problems there is extremely scant evidence that Lightpeak will every be cheaper than the solutions now deployed or currently deploying.


May end up with USB & Lightpeak. More likely could end up with USB , Ethernet, & Lightpeak. However, will bet that some video connector slips onto the survivors list also. Firwire, eSATA, ExpressCard .. sure can kill those off. Those can easily be made dead men walking connectors for consumer devices.

Lightpeak may swallow up many of the other connectors. Intel is going to pitch it to try to swallow up as many as they can but it remains to be seen whether that will happen or not.

For instance, in a world were ISP run fiber to house can see how perhaps could pitch Lightpeak from/to fiber router/modem and other household devices as better (this is where the length argument over copper wire comes in. They'd try to get houses wired up this way. That will have limited traction since folks don't massively rewire housing much). Ethernet is likely to stick around for long while though.