New iBooks Released

[MacRumors]

Apple released (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=9eASk0x48lo&subid=1&offerid=13301.1&type=10&tmpid=80&RD_PARM1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apple.com%2Feducation%2Fk12%2Filifeandkeynote%2F&u1=macrumors) three new iBook revisions today as rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/10/20041018130155.shtml).

iBook 12" 1.2 Ghz G4
512K L2 Cache
256 MB Ram
30 GB Hard Drive
Combo Drive
Airport Extreme
$999

iBook 14" 1.33 Ghz G4
512K L2 Cache
256 MB Ram
60 GB Hard Drive
Combo Drive
Airport Extreme
$1299

iBook 14" 1.33 Ghz G4
512K L2 Cache
256 MB Ram
60 GB Hard Drive
SuperDrive
Airport Extreme
$1499

The new products can be found at the Apple Store (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=9eASk0x48lo&subid=1&offerid=13301.1&type=10&tmpid=80&RD_PARM1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apple.com%2Feducation%2Fk12%2Filifeandkeynote%2F&u1=macrumors).

[LoonyPandora]

Like the price drop, and built in Airport - good value I say :)

[brap]

This makes my 1.33GHz $1600 Powerbook feel very queasy :(

On the plus side, my missus can have a wicked fast iBook for very little cash. Can we assume Apple have something very, very, very special for the next pb revision, if they're going to push these lines so close together?

[Zaty]

Nice update, why is BT still optional? The iBooks are still stuck with the Radeon 9200 (which doesn't support CoreImage!).

[macgfxdesigner]

I have some friends who might want to switch now cause the price is a little lower...

[HiRez]

All this does is make is painful clear to me how long the PowerBook G4s have been languishing, and how underpowered they're starting to look not only vs. Wintel laptops but even now vs. iBooks. Better get that dual-G4 17" PowerBook prototype dusted off, Apple. A lot of people aren't going to wait 6-12 months for a G5 PowerBook (most likely 2.0 GHz at the most). I have three grand burning a hole in my pocket but I will not be spending it on one of the current G4 PowerBooks. *sigh*

[AmigoMac]

as an iBook owner I don't feel downgraded because of this release, I think they do have problems on chip production and the next step will be 1.33 and 1.5 at that time they will have the dual core PB ready, right now it has been a marketing move not a "Release" ... Release will be the dual core PB... but now, of, fine for the new mac buyers... Welcome!

[denm316]

I am happy that Airport is built in now, it is a nice addition and the lower price could bring alot of college switchers. A decent notebook for under $1000, a very good pricepoint.

[Diatribe]

Nice update, why is BT still optional? The iBooks are still stuck with the Radeon 9200 (which doesn't support CoreImage!).

To leave a gap between the Powerbooks and the iBooks. And the graphics card only means that there'll be another rev before Tiger ships which will probably be 1.33 and 1.5.

[kbonnel]

I hope to see PB updates next. I am really thinking of selling my PB15" 1.5, and getting a PB12" (and a G5 Desktop). I will only get a 12" if they increase the LCD resolution. 1024x768 won't cut it for me :(

Kimo

[belair]

Great value.
I am happy its not a big makeover, graphicscard, HD, RAM ect.
Makes me feel better about my 1 week old ibook.

[jcook793]

Video card is the same, but now it has built-in wifi and you can BTO up to an 80 gig hard drive. And a price drop. That's pretty great.

And now the low-end iBook is 50% faster than my iBook from just last Christmas! :(

[Zaty]

To leave a gap between the Powerbooks and the iBooks. And the graphics card only means that there'll be another rev before Tiger ships which will probably be 1.33 and 1.5.

Yes, of course. BT will become standard in the next revision. And you're probably also right about Tiger. So no Tiger before April/May.

[AmigoMac]

a lot of people will be *screwed* if they don't update the firmware or whatever they should update to make it coreimage compatible... unless they will release Tiger in June... :( :mad:

[Diatribe]

No new 12" PB means they are on to something bigger... because if they didn't plan on revamping the 15"/17" they would have just upped the 12" to keep the difference to the iBooks but since they have not....
We will see but this will be very interesting.

[Rod Rod]

awesome improvements on this update, ranked (just my opinion):

1. built-in airport extreme

2. 256MB RAM built-in (instead of 128MB)

3. BTO 60 and 80GB hard drives

I got my 12" 1.33GHz PowerBook in April, within two or three days of them being released, and I think this iBook update is awesome. Way to Go Apple!

[aswitcher]

Yes, of course. BT will become standard in the next revision. And you're probably also right about Tiger. So no Tiger before April/May.

Seems that way...so whilst tasty the iBooks lack the 64 coreimage ram that would have really made them a performer under Tiger. Shame.

[abrooks]

This must mean some kind of new Powerbook because the iBook is nearly identical in spec to the lower end Powerbooks.

[Diatribe]

Yes, of course. BT will become standard in the next revision. And you're probably also right about Tiger. So no Tiger before April/May.

And knowing Apple this will come with the most splendid graphics cards on the planet: the ultimate GeForce 5200 :D
They just love this card... or have a lot of stock. ;)

[Diatribe]

Oh BTW, German page for example still isn't updated yet...

[Ensoniq]

Well as usual, Apple takes what could have been a perfect upgrade, and intentionally cripples it for no reason.

The two changes that were needed:

1 - 12" iBook should have been a 40 GB drive, instead of 30. On the custom build page of the Apple Store, HD sizes are 30/60/80. Where did the 40 go? Unless there is a supply problem on the 40, the 40 should have been the base size.

2 - All of the iBooks should have gotten the nVidia Go5200. The only PowerBook that uses the Go5200 is the 12". The other PowerBooks have better video cards, so no competition there. And the 12" PowerBook has enough other features (built-in BT, DVI-out, faster system bus, 60 GB HD) that the Go5200 in the iBook would NOT have killed 12" PB sales.

A speed increase and built-in AE are great...I'm in need of a 12" and by ordering today, I will get a better value than I would have yesterday. But I've been holding off for 3 months because of the Tiger CoreImage compliancy issues with the video card. I wanted a machine that I knew would be fully compatible with Tiger enhancements, and I'm feeling disappointed. But I cannot sit and wait another 6 months...oh well.

[iMeowbot]

Nice update, why is BT still optional? The iBooks are still stuck with the Radeon 9200 (which doesn't support CoreImage!).
This isn't such a big worry. The infamous list of cards is what will get a full boost from the new library, but the functions will still work on other systems. It's just that more work will have to be done by the CPU instead of a the graphics coprocessor. In other words, this is really no different from the situation in the currently released OS X. These machines aren't going to suddenly be unable to work when Tiger is released!

[Davito]

Oh BTW, German page for example still isn't updated yet...

Yes it is ;)

[AmigoMac]

Correct me if I'm wrong but seems to be that apple has a lowered RAM price...

[Diatribe]

Yes it is ;)

Nope, it is not ;)
The store is, the page isn't. :p

[~Shard~]

Good news, and good job to MacRumors for calling this one pretty much perfectly! This is an excellent move with Christmas coming and Apple will no doubt see a lot of iBook sales as a result. Now I wonder when the PowerBooks will be updated? ;)

[Diatribe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but seems to be that apple has a lowered RAM price...

At least in the German store it does not look like it. Or were you referring to the U.S. store?

[wordmunger]

Correct me if I'm wrong but seems to be that apple has a lowered RAM price...
I don't know what it was before, but it's $200 for 512 MB from Apple versus $137.50 from Crucial. Not much of a "deal" there.

[MacPhreak]

EDU discount has dropped from $100 to $50. The custom CD-ROM model is $100 off, and used to be $150 off. :(

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Nice updates!

Makes my year-old 12" iBook G4 800 seem really old, though.

Also wish they made Bluetooth built-in, got an option for superdrive on the 12" and increased the screen resolution (at least on the 14").

[aswitcher]

Good news, and good job to MacRumors for calling this one pretty much perfectly! This is an excellent move with Christmas coming and Apple will no doubt see a lot of iBook sales as a result.

Most accurate rumors I can recall getting both the iBook and PM right.

[ijimk]

Ok why did they not update the video card? We all know tiger is coming out soon and would be awesome if they bumped up the video card to take advantage of tiger's core image. I am not impressed apple. I know they can do better. :mad:

[MacPhreak]

Makes my year-old 12" iBook G4 800 seem really old, though.


And my 12" G3 800 seem even older, even though it's not even one yet (bought it as a leftover).

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but seems to be that apple has a lowered RAM price...

Don't know about that. Here in Norway they charge about double of what I can get a similar chip for elsewhere... and RAM is, still, easy to replace yourself, unlike HD... :(

[xg3]

hehe just ordered my ibook.. 12".
at that price i am quite happy and easy on the pocket.

[g4cubed]

Nice update, why is BT still optional? The iBooks are still stuck with the Radeon 9200 (which doesn't support CoreImage!).
True, but right now I'll take the improvements and price drop. And the graphics card only means that there'll be another rev before Tiger ships. And maybe they'll add BT to that rev as well.

[machan]

this is nice, but how about an article about the xserve and xserve raid updates as well?

[AmigoMac]

Ok why did they not update the video card? We all know tiger is coming out soon and would be awesome if they bumped up the video card to take advantage of tiger's core image. I am not impressed apple. I know they can do better. :mad:

They will do it in may, with the awesome 5200 ultra :p ...
not a "BIG" update... but nice!

and about the RAM, ok, I was wrong... anyway I didn't buy it at apple.

[Stella]

PowerBooks now look very expensive for what you get ( especially, the 15" glowing keyboard version).

Still 32MB for the Graphics card on the iBook, not good enough for Tiger CoreGraphics.



Good value though.

[homerjward]

EDU discount has dropped from $100 to $50. The custom CD-ROM model is $100 off, and used to be $150 off. :(
yeah, i noticed that :confused: although and it's 150 for the lowend pm as opposed to 200 for the others

[aafuss1]

I predicted Airport as std on low-end -we got 54mps on low-end models but no tri-band Centrino style AE as I suggested (the i2915BG for x86 notebooks_ .
No VRAM upgrades, justifiable due to Tiger still not released-next rev.
PM-1.8ghz re-introduced.

Why can't Apple bundle Media-Blasters Invader Zim DVD's or another DVD with DVD capable macs as they would round out a digital lifestyle orientated system ?

[johnnyjibbs]

This is great. I don't think BT should be built-in for iBooks because it is a novelty feature, and one you'd find on the PowerBooks. But built-in wireless is probably to keep them competitive with Windows laptops. Price drop is sweet. My brother will be getting the 12" iBook tonight with education discount and 60 or 80GB HD and bluetooth, and then I'll be getting £130 off a 20GB iPod - that's right - an iPod for £70!!! :D :D

[solvs]

2. 256MB RAM built-in (instead of 128MB)
That happened in the last update.

We thought we heard complaining about the iMacs graphics card... 32MB Radeon 9200 is not good enough. I don't care what the P'Book has. I don't expect to run Motion in real time, but I'd expect at least 64MB for "future-proofing".

Let the complaining begin.

Edit: wow, a lot of people wrote things before I hit reply.
I predicted better Airport-we got 54mps.
That's been part of it for awhile. AirPort Extreme. The only difference is that it's now standard on the low-end. Zim does rule though.

[VicMacs]

I don't know what it was before, but it's $200 for 512 MB from Apple versus $137.50 from Crucial. Not much of a "deal" there.

www.memoryx.net

109+FREE shipping





im thinking of getting the small one in like a month if new powerbooks arent released.... sell it when powerbooks are released... and get the new 12 inch pb g5.. im guessing it will come with tiger.... :mad:

[Diatribe]

PowerBooks now look very expensive for what you get ( especially, the 15" glowing keyboard version).


Yep, you're right, they will need to drop the price on the Powerbooks also when they are upgraded. I'd take a sub $2000 15" with SD please. :D

[Savage Henry]

The store is, the page isn't. :p

Yeah the UK page is still old iBook ... oh well.

Nevertheless, it's a nice range of equipment that hopefully pre-empts new PBs about this time next month (or whenever). The unit sales were already high for the iBooks, this can only improve things a great deal more.

[MacNeXT]

Great, the 'Apple is expensive' argument has become a less valid. Pity there is no gfx update and the screen resolutions are the same. I would've liked to see a 14" or 15" with more than 1024x786. Right now the 12" is still the most attractive one for me, because of this. I'm thinking of buying one. The only thing I need is the money :D

[aafuss1]

Would anyone think the intrepid Chipset still be used on ibook logic board or a new one?

[Ryan McCanical]

I don't know about anyone else.. but when I add bluetooth to either of the 14" models, it takes $25 bucks off the price.

Now thats a deal! haha

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I predicted better Airport-we got 54mps.

???

That has been the speed of Airport Extreme (= 802.11g) from day one...

I have an AE card in my (old) iBook...

[Ryan McCanical]

Damn.. It fixes it when you add it to your cart.

[Sharewaredemon]

The 100 dollar price drop, plus the build in ae i makes it like a 200 dollar price drop, that's good incentive for me to convince people to get one.
I wonder if i could work on comission for apple, I spend a lot of time trying to switch my friends.

[Lancetx]

This is a great update, especially on the 12" model. A $100 drop plus the addition of standard AirPort Extreme makes these iBooks very competitive with the sub $1,000 Wintel books out there. As for the graphics, remember that most of the entry level Wintel books have much lousier integrated graphics with shared memory. So a Radeon 9200 w/32MB is much better by comparison. If you must have full CoreImage compatibility, you really need a PowerBook anyway.

[eventualdave]

1.33 GHz G4 14" iBook w/ 768 RAM and 80 GB HDD ordered, about $1600. Can't wait!

[wordmunger]

I don't know about anyone else.. but when I add bluetooth to either of the 14" models, it takes $25 bucks off the price.

Now thats a deal! haha

Wow! I save $29! Wonder how long it will take to fix that!

[rdowns]

PowerBooks now look very expensive for what you get ( especially, the 15" glowing keyboard version).

Still 32MB for the Graphics card on the iBook, not good enough for Tiger CoreGraphics.



Good value though.

Core Image requirements:

The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.

Can we let this bitch go and move on to the others? :D

[iProbot]

And my 12" G3 800 seem even older, even though it's not even one yet (bought it as a leftover).

And my Macintosh Classic 8 Mhz sounds like from the dark ages! So what's the point? Life goes on ;)

[Diatribe]

Wow! I save $29! Wonder how long it will take to fix that!

People get your iBooks now! :D

[Sharewaredemon]

Core Image requirements:

The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.

Can we let this bitch go and move on to the others? :D

lol
I agree, now i'm not sure, but i think that the core image, is mostly special effects which are superfluous, such as the ripple when a new widget is opened in dashboard. People with older g3's don't have the screen rotate when they fast user switch in panther, but they can still fast user switch. Right?
What I am saying, is that tiger will work, fine, and that MAYBE we might not be able to see all the bells and whistles, but it will still be an improvement over panther.

and if you want to complain, start using windows.

BTW I am sorry if i came across rude to anyone, I am just kidding around and hope that no one was seriously offended.

Oh yeah, and please, correct me if i'm wrong,
because i think i might be.

[Yuh]

Can we let this bitch go and move on to the others?

Okay, where's the price drop in Australia? It's still $1695 for the 12" ibook...

[Sharewaredemon]

And my Macintosh Classic 8 Mhz sounds like from the dark ages! So what's the point? Life goes on ;)


Yeah these new iBooks are making me think I should update my LC 520, ;)

[Aoshi_lacsap]

The only point that is sad about this update is the System Bus.. come on 133 is not enought......

Otherwise it rocks!

[ewinemiller]

Video card is the same, but now it has built-in wifi and you can BTO up to an 80 gig hard drive. And a price drop. That's pretty great.

And now the low-end iBook is 50% faster than my iBook from just last Christmas! :(

Actually probably more than 50%. I have the same G4-800 ibook. It only had 256k of l2 cache I believe, the new ones have 512k. I haven't benchmarked between the 256k and 512k l2 cache G4s, but when the PIIIs made that change (coppermine->tualatin), it made about a 10% difference in speed without changing clock for the stuff I do. So I would guess that the new ibooks would be more like 65% faster ;) than yours and mine G4-800 ibooks.

[cazlar]

I'm not looking for an iBook (still loving my revB 12" PB), but I'm disappointed that the US$100 price drop somehow disappeared somewhere over the pacific, with the prices not moving here in Australia one bit. Still, a pretty good upgrade all round.

[Rod Rod]

{my comment about 256 built in instead of 128}

That happened in the last update.

thanks. I should have known... anyhow, I'm happy for all the people switching for whom this new iBook will be their first Mac. I wish I had it this good. my first was a 12" 700MHz G3 20GB cd-rom iBook.

How come no-one has noticed the powermac update (although i use that term loosely) Apple has reintroduced the single processor powermac G5. At a much lower price but with a reduced systems bus.

that's because there's a whole thread dedicated to that news. please pay attention. (edesignuk imitation, except he'd provide a link to that thread) :)

[~Shard~]

Most accurate rumors I can recall getting both the iBook and PM right.

Let's see if Apple can complete the triple play with the black U2 iPod rumors next week... :cool:

[Charko]

Well done MacGadget!!

Bloody good job, you did!

[Diatribe]

I'm not looking for an iBook (still loving my revB 12" PB), but I'm disappointed that the US$100 price drop somehow disappeared somewhere over the pacific, with the prices not moving here in Australia one bit. Still, a pretty good upgrade all round.

It seems with the focus on the U.S., Japan and Europe all the others, especially you guys, are left out a lot.
But it could be worse... think of China. Apple has virtually no presence there and this is a market that pays whatever premium they'd charge...

[Diatribe]

Well done MacGadget!!

Bloody good job, you did!

If they can repeat it then I'll agree with you. :D
And what's up with all the Germans in here lately? ;)

[aafuss1]

???

That has been the speed of Airport Extreme (= 802.11g) from day one...

I have an AE card in my (old) iBook...
http://web.archive.org/web/20040201230709/www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html- AE was optional last yeat and built in this year.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

so the 12" powerbook fits in where now? Silver case, for $600 more. brilliant.

[AoWolf]

2. 256MB RAM built-in (instead of 128MB)



No it already had 256 built in sorry.

[MacSA]

The 100 dollar price drop, plus the build in ae i makes it like a 200 dollar price drop, that's good incentive for me to convince people to get one.
I wonder if i could work on comission for apple, I spend a lot of time trying to switch my friends.

Yes, but how much do you have to spend on a AE base station to make use of the AE card?

[MacPhreak]

And my Macintosh Classic 8 Mhz sounds like from the dark ages! So what's the point? Life goes on ;)

And I've got a basement full of 'em. But it's not your daily driver, or else you wouldn't be reading this ;) The G3 iBook is what I do my work on, day in and day out.

[Diatribe]

Yes, but how much do you have to spend on a AE base station to make use of the AE card?

Nothing if you don't surf wireless at home :p

Seriously though, the AE card is mostly intended to surf wirelessly on the go. The benefit is that you can do that at home too but this is your choice.

[aus_dave]

Yes, but how much do you have to spend on a AE base station to make use of the AE card?An Airport Express basestation is quite good vallue IMHO (around $220 AU, $120 US).

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

And my Macintosh Classic 8 Mhz sounds like from the dark ages! So what's the point? Life goes on ;)

Yes, but it has been a while since Apple were even close to Moore's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law), and its a bit of a shock, even though it's good for everybody who loves their Macs... :D

Hopefully they keep up the good work so I can buy myself a brand new 12" iBook for Christmas next year that will kick my current 800MHz G4's a*s...

Whishlist for Oct/Nov/Dec 2005:
* 12" iBook dual 1.5GHz G4
* 1280x1024 resolution
* 100 GB HD
* 512 MB RAM (which I upgrade to 1.5GB)
* Superdrive
* 64 MB VRAM (I don't really need any more, but an 128-256 option would be nice)
* Built-in Airport Express and Bluetooth (to early for WiMax, i guess)

- is this to much to ask for...? ;)

[drummondi]

They need to deal with the ibooks main problem: that of the screen resolution.
1024x 768 on the 14 incher is just pitiful. You can't do anything on that. I use pro tools with an mbox on an ibook and it is pure agony. I am tempted to switch back for the res on some of the thinkpads.

Rest of the updates are ok. nothing brilliant.

[Chomolungma]

Yes, but how much do you have to spend on a AE base station to make use of the AE card?

This is a mobile computer. School, airport, cafe, library even some entire city with "hotspot". If this is the only computer you have for the home, you'll still need to pay for internet access (ethernet wire to your laptop).

-chomo

[ncbill]

As for faster, there is still no incentive to upgrade my iBook G3s (800MHz combo, and the $700, 900MHz combo blowout from Microcenter puchased as a backup after multiple logic board failures on the 800MHz model)

As others have noted, look for another bump when the Powerbook G5 is released at the end of summer, 2005.

Maybe we'll get the Freescale G4s with 1MB L2 cache at that time.
Surely we'll get a graphics card that fully supports Tiger by then.

[iMeowbot]

I agree, now i'm not sure, but i think that the core image, is mostly special effects which are superfluous, such as the ripple when a new widget is opened in dashboard. People with older g3's don't have the screen rotate when they fast user switch in panther, but they can still fast user switch. Right?
Right, it's all eye candy. Core image will also see applications in user space, making it easier to program some things, and that should have benefit for animations, games, that part of the universe.

But the important thing to remember about all this graphics acceleration business is that there is nothing a GPU can do that can't also be done with a dumb frame buffer driven by a conventional CPU. Obviously there's a speed difference, but that doesn't mean you can't get things done.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Seems that way...so whilst tasty the iBooks lack the 64 coreimage ram that would have really made them a performer under Tiger. Shame.

Maybe that is what is planned for the PB updates.

[aafuss1]

I wonder if the latch was a new color-as ThinkSecret reported? And why no Zim or another popular DVD included as many kids or adults may want a dvdb to view out of the box, eg. imacs in 99/00 had a Pixar DVD bundeled ?.

[stillwater]

I think its stupid to ship the low end iBook with a smaller hard drive than you can get in an iPod. :rolleyes:

[Diatribe]

I wonder if the latch was a new color-as ThinkSecret reported?

Still looks silver to me.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

They gotta do something to make it "different" from the 12" poweroobk.. though a quick configuration makes your new ibook virtually a powerbook for $500 less. :rolleyes:

I think its stupid to ship the low end iBook with a smaller hard drive than you can get in an iPod. :rolleyes:

[Jim_N_Tonik]

iBooks still dont support coreimage --> Tiger won't be released until at least april to match the new iBook lineup.

[Diatribe]

Since a lot of people will start asking tomorrow: "Should I buy now or wait for the next revision?" I'll post the specs of the next revision that is due sometime in spring next year.

- 1.33 and 1.5 Ghz processors
- BT standard
- 40 GB HD minimum
- GeForce 5200
- if Apple is really, really nice they'll have a SD option for the 12" as well

So here it is, go decide whether to buy now or wait :p

[AmigoMac]

Since a lot of people will start asking tomorrow: "Should I buy now or wait for the next revision?" I'll post the specs of the next revision that is due sometime in spring next year.

- 1.33 and 1.5 Ghz processors
- BT standard
- 40 GB HD minimum
- GeForce 5200
- if Apple is really, really nice they'll have a SD option for the 12" as well

So here it is, go decide whether to buy now or wait :p

Tomorrow? no, give them a couple of hours... ;)

now let's wait when the scams in ebay will start... :mad:

And i agree with your *next* setup, seems to be right for coreimage and we will receive Tiger in June :eek: 2 weeks before WWDC

[Abstract]

The two changes that were needed:

1 - 12" iBook should have been a 40 GB drive, instead of 30. On the custom build page of the Apple Store, HD sizes are 30/60/80. Where did the 40 go? Unless there is a supply problem on the 40, the 40 should have been the base size.

2 - All of the iBooks should have gotten the nVidia Go5200. The only PowerBook that uses the Go5200 is the 12". The other PowerBooks have better video cards, so no competition there. And the 12" PowerBook has enough other features (built-in BT, DVI-out, faster system bus, 60 GB HD) that the Go5200 in the iBook would NOT have killed 12" PB sales.


So you wanted a 12" Powerbook for the price of an iBook. Funny, because so do I.

The upgrade is great. iBook potential customers and switchers should be ecstatic right now. If I had to choose an iBook or 12" or 15" (low end) PB, I'd rather get any size iBook, as it does almost everything that I need to perfectly.

Apple better come out with the 1.5GHz G4 for the 12" and a better chip for everything else come January (or hopefully sooner), because I don't think people will be even looking at the PB unless they really really want the Aluminium look.

[rdowns]

iBooks still dont support coreimage --> Tiger won't be released until at least april to match the new iBook lineup.

Wrong.

The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.

[iProbot]

Whishlist for Oct/Nov/Dec 2005:
* 12" iBook dual 1.5GHz G4
* 1280x1024 resolution
* 100 GB HD
* 512 MB RAM (which I upgrade to 1.5GB)
* Superdrive
* 64 MB VRAM (I don't really need any more, but an 128-256 option would be nice)
* Built-in Airport Express and Bluetooth (to early for WiMax, i guess)

- is this to much to ask for...? ;)

May all your wishes come true!!! :) But maybe you're talking about next spring iBook updates now? ;) Anyway: go for it! :D So will I :)

[Yvan256]

awesome improvements on this update, ranked (just my opinion):

2. 256MB RAM built-in (instead of 128MB)

The previous "version" already had 256MB RAM.

[Diatribe]

Wrong.

The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.

You won't get that out of the people, no matter how hard you try. :D
Nice effort though. ;)

[yoak]

This is good news, I've been waiting a few weeks to buy an iBook thanks to yopu guys out there. I`m glad I listened to you. I will be ordering a 12" when my next pay check arrives. the 12" is down 1000NOK from yesterday. (about £80).

So thanks again for all your helpful advice. :)

[Hattig]

I'm saddened by the UK prices, which are £749, £899 and £1049 respectively.

Taking off VAT that is £637.45, £765.11 and £892.77 respectively.

Compared to the US prices of $999, $1299, $1499 at a generous exchange rate of 1.75 dollars to the pound, that is $1115, $1339 and $1562.

A difference of $116, $40 and $63 respectively, making the 14" Combo Drive model the best option in the UK for people who don't want to get ripped off by the Apple Foreign Markup Tax.

I was expecting the 12" to cost £699 myself (£595 ex VAT, or $1041).

I wanted the 12" ...

Does anyone remember what yesterday's iBook prices were, for comparison? I intended to save them, but forgot. Ah, hooray for old news stories online:

The three new iBooks are priced at £799/$1099 (1GHz 12in Combo), £899/$1299 (1GHz 14in Combo) and £1049/$1499 (1.2GHz 14in Combo). All UK prices include VAT.

So 200MHz + Wireless for £-50, 333MHz + Wireless for nothing and 133MHz + Wireless + DVDR for nothing.

[nagromme]

A nice upgrade--speed/wireless--for less $!

Student/teacher pricing starts at $899 for a special CD-only model--mainly for school labs of course, but it does create a very low entry price. $50 more gets you DVD and CD-RW, though, so go for that unless you already have those things and budget is tight. (Or, add an external later. Same goes for RAM if you need to cut up-front cost.)

And of course there's the free printer (or $30 printer/scanner/copier) that always comes with Macs. I mention it because people like to add that item when quoting Dell prices, as though free printers are something rare :)

[dieselg4]

Yes, but how much do you have to spend on a AE base station to make use of the AE card?

About $29, because AE Base stations are overpriced. Any wireless router will do.

[dekator]

Wrong.

The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.

Ah cool, thanks for the info. I might as well buy a new iBook then...

(Although, yes, I have to do this, although 30 gigs is poooooooooooor. Only the 12" makes sense for me. Can't believe they only give you *one* default config for the 12"er. Superdrive and better graphics card would've been nice).

Addendum:
As for price. The German price for the 12" is at $1142 (excluding tax). $140 more because... because, uh...
We feel so special when we're getting ripped off...

[t300]

Wah Wah Wah....My Powerbook isn't special anymore, the iBooks are better than the Powerbooks...

What is it with all this whining? No one is asking any of you to buy either one.

[itsa]

New Powerbooks within 3 weeks!

[swissmann]

Good work MacRumors - you pretty much nailed this one too.

[Mord]

Seems that way...so whilst tasty the iBooks lack the 64 coreimage ram that would have really made them a performer under Tiger. Shame.


the 1GHz 12" powerbook had a 32MB core image gpu it's the gpu's features that define it's ability, i have a 16MB gpu and i have quartz extreme.

and about this scalability crap it scales as in it plain dont work on older macs i dant have any water effects or anything like that on my copy of 10.4 on my ibook.

[CubaTBird]

this is good news for me, now i know my ibook that i bought last july isn't out of date! yet..... :) :rolleyes:

[visor]

what a drag.
Otherwise it would almost be an option to get one right away. OK bluetooth is another mandatory internal.

[Cybbe]

The prices in Norway has gone down from 10490 NOK to 9490, a reduction of 1000 NOK. 100$ actually amount to under 700 Norwegian kroner, so the price reduction is greater over here (if the prices given now are correct).

I think Apple has yet to update their entire site, as I cant get into the education store, and some places the old price is given, not the new one. So other non-US residents, wait till tommorrow before you complain about the price , as the prices given on your pages may still be due for an update.

[Zaty]

Since a lot of people will start asking tomorrow: "Should I buy now or wait for the next revision?" I'll post the specs of the next revision that is due sometime in spring next year.

- 1.33 and 1.5 Ghz processors
- BT standard
- 40 GB HD minimum
- GeForce 5200
- if Apple is really, really nice they'll have a SD option for the 12" as well

So here it is, go decide whether to buy now or wait :p

You should submit this post as "big news" in late March/early April. Chances are good you're going to hit the jackpot with your prediction :) As for the SD option on the 12", it depends on the fate of the 12" PB. Should Apple change the form-factor of the low-end PB or (unlikely) drop it altogether), Apple might offer a SD option.

[Ensoniq]

The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.

Although that statement is true, is reminiscent to the Quartz/Quartz Extreme issues faced by anyone with less than 16 MB VRAM.

On my current iMac DV with a Rage 128/8 MB VRAM, I don't get the spinning-cube on Fast User Switching. Why? Because even though I can still run Panther, I don't get any of the Quartz Extreme special effects.

On an iBook with a Radeon 9200/32 MB VRAM, I am not going to get the water-ripple when Dashboard opens. Why? Because even though I will still be able to run Tiger, I won't get any of the CoreImage special effects.

Saying "CoreImage scales as needed" is the same as "Quartz Extreme scales as needed", meaning "you don't get the fancy crap with an old video card". It is for that reason, and that the iMac has the 5200, that I felt the iBook should have it too. Buying an iBook today means replacing my iMac DV that can't support Quartz Extreme with a new machine that won't fully support CoreImage enhancements. That is a disappointment, no matter how you try to justify it.

Yes, I could buy the PowerBook 12", but that's not really the point. The 5200 is already 1.5 years old. To not include it in the iBook with Tiger around the corner was just stupid. The issue isn't expecting a 12" PowerBook at iBook prices. The issue is expecting a CoreImage compliant video card so that I'm not buying something today that is already somewhat "left behind" the technology that has already been announced.

[deputy_doofy]

Wah Wah Wah....My Powerbook isn't special anymore, the iBooks are better than the Powerbooks...

What is it with all this whining? No one is asking any of you to buy either one.

I agree with you 1000000%. Computers constantly get better. The new low ends eventually (and, by eventually, I mean 6 months :)) become far better than the old top of the line machines.

I paid $1500 for an iMac G3 400MHz DV SE. YOU, today, can buy a bottom of the barrell iBook for cheaper and destroy what my old computer could do.

Yes, so PB will look a little stale for awhile. Right now, the plan is to hook in newbies with a low price point.

[Zaty]

New Powerbooks within 3 weeks! I'd say IN three weeks b/c next Tuesday is the iTMS/U2/iPod/whatever event, so Apple will want to get as much attention as they can get for whatever they're announcing then. One week later would be a possibility, but I think they might want to keep the 60 gig colour display iPod (or whatever) on the front page for more than a just a week. So my guess is, new PBs on November 9.

[iGary]

I was going to buy an iBook on Saturday before a business trip.

Reserved a 12" 1.2ghz with combo and airport to pick up tonight.

The speed bump and the airport for less money clinched the deal.

949.00 with an educational discount. :)

[Zaty]

Although that statement is true, is reminiscent to the Quartz/Quartz Extreme issues faced by anyone with less than 16 MB VRAM.

On my current iMac DV with a Rage 128/8 MB VRAM, I don't get the spinning-cube on Fast User Switching. Why? Because even though I can still run Panther, I don't get any of the Quartz Extreme special effects.

On an iBook with a Radeon 9200/32 MB VRAM, I am not going to get the water-ripple when Dashboard opens. Why? Because even though I will still be able to run Tiger, I won't get any of the CoreImage special effects.

Saying "CoreImage scales as needed" is the same as "Quartz Extreme scales as needed", meaning "you don't get the fancy crap with an old video card". It is for that reason, and that the iMac has the 5200, that I felt the iBook should have it too. Buying an iBook today means replacing my iMac DV that can't support Quartz Extreme with a new machine that won't fully support CoreImage enhancements. That is a disappointment, no matter how you try to justify it.

Yes, I could buy the PowerBook 12", but that's not really the point. The 5200 is already 1.5 years old. To not include it in the iBook with Tiger around the corner was just stupid. The issue isn't expecting a 12" PowerBook at iBook prices. The issue is expecting a CoreImage compliant video card so that I'm not buying something today that is already somewhat "left behind" the technology that has already been announced.

What about the amount of VRAM you need for Core Image? Will my Rev. B 12" PB w/32 megs be okay? Or do you need 64 megs to take fully advantage of Core Image?

[gekko513]

The prices in Norway has gone down from 10490 NOK to 9490, a reduction of 1000 NOK. 100$ actually amount to under 700 Norwegian kroner, so the price reduction is greater over here (if the prices given now are correct).

I think Apple has yet to update their entire site, as I cant get into the education store, and some places the old price is given, not the new one. So other non-US residents, wait till tommorrow before you complain about the price , as the prices given on your pages may still be due for an update.

Yeah, that's good (kr 1000 price drop), but we still have the Apple added non-US tax just like everyone else, as kr 9490 equals $1161 or $1090 with the lowest or highest exchange rate since March (VAT subtracted of course).

[iMeowbot]

Yes, I could buy the PowerBook 12", but that's not really the point. The 5200 is already 1.5 years old. To not include it in the iBook with Tiger around the corner was just stupid.
None of the current notebooks support Tiger's 64-bit modules, or even the multiprocessing features of the current OS X, or tons of other model-specific details. So what? The iBook and eMac are the low end models, so they get low end features. It's still better than the shared-memory deal you get in the Wintel low end.

[mcgarry]

Except for the fact that a PB update is around the corner, at the moment the 12" PB still makes sense over the 12" iBook for a lot of customers:

*1.33 GHz vs. 1.2
*167MHz system bus vs. 133
*DDR333 vs. DDR266 memory
*64MB VRAM vs. 32
*slightly lighter and smaller
*support for external monitor, not just mirroring
*built-in bluetooth
*faster HD BTO option

So, you do get more than a silver case for the price difference between a PB and and an iBook. And the price difference is even less with educational pricing, which takes more off the PB.

[solvs]

I'd say IN three weeks
Maybe they want to bump them on Nov. 2 so no one notices, what with the elections and all. Maybe it's not so good, as per the lackluster bump we get today. Not that a lot of us were expecting much more, but I'd take 64MB graphics and 40GB drive over built-in AirPort any day.

[earthtoandy]

This makes my 1.33GHz $1600 Powerbook feel very queasy :(

On the plus side, my missus can have a wicked fast iBook for very little cash. Can we assume Apple have something very, very, very special for the next pb revision, if they're going to push these lines so close together?
i say youre right there. it now seems likely the powerbook will have a major update (all new line?) in january

[Yvan256]

Okay, where's the price drop in Australia? It's still $1695 for the 12" ibook...

Dunno about the other countries, but in Canada it's a 150$CAN price drop (very nice).

I wish I could *remove* the stupid AE card to get another 250$CAN off that sticker price though...

[Windowlicker]

Nice update, why is BT still optional? The iBooks are still stuck with the Radeon 9200 (which doesn't support CoreImage!).

the iBook isn't made for developers and such. It's for the casual consumer. Is there a big need for CoreImage when using Office?

Still, I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to have CoreImage on iBook. It would just cost a little more and the price wouldn't be 999.

[Windowlicker]

I am happy that Airport is built in now, it is a nice addition and the lower price could bring alot of college switchers. A decent notebook for under $1000, a very good pricepoint.

exactly. if i didn't have my 1.8dp now, i'd definitely be looking after the 12" ibook and just stick 512mb more ram inside it. that would be a kick ass deal in my opinion.

[Yvan256]

Actually probably more than 50%. I have the same G4-800 ibook. It only had 256k of l2 cache I believe, the new ones have 512k.

The "previous" (i.e., a week ago) iBooks already had 512KB L2 Cache. The*only* difference in this update is CPU/cache speed and built-in AE instead of optionnal. Oh, and 100$US price drop.

B.T.W.: if you can order from the USA store, check out the "special deals" page... The previous 12" iBook is now available for 799$US.

[Yvan256]

It seems with the focus on the U.S., Japan and Europe all the others, especially you guys, are left out a lot.
But it could be worse... think of China. Apple has virtually no presence there and this is a market that pays whatever premium they'd charge...

Sorry if this sounds cheap, but Apple has virtually no presence in Canada either (except for the Canadian website, which isn't even a .ca, it's in .com/ca/).

We need ITMS Canada and Apple Stores too! (and not just Toronto and Vancouver either).

[Yvan256]

You should submit this post as "big news" in late March/early April. Chances are good you're going to hit the jackpot with your prediction :) As for the SD option on the 12", it depends on the fate of the 12" PB. Should Apple change the form-factor of the low-end PB or (unlikely) drop it altogether), Apple might offer a SD option.

Can someone please tell what "SD" means? Because to me, it's Secure Digital flash cards...

[Palad1]

Can someone please tell what "SD" means? Because to me, it's Secure Digital flash cards...
SD=Super Drive.

That's the Apple name for a DVD-R burner ;)

Can't wait for the SuperDrive Extreme (DVD blue-ray support ?) :D

[Foxer]

I'm just impressed that Apple has a product available to buy on (basically) the day it is released. They should strive for this more often. How long ago were the 30-inch cinema displays announced?

[Windowlicker]

I hope to see PB updates next. I am really thinking of selling my PB15" 1.5, and getting a PB12" (and a G5 Desktop). I will only get a 12" if they increase the LCD resolution. 1024x768 won't cut it for me :(

Kimo

You think they will put 1280x1024 on 12"? Don't think so myself. They could change the technology used on the display instead and get better (?) results with the same resolution. We'll see eventually.

[CaptainCaveMann]

apple did a great job with the updates!!!! we now have a 80 gig in the ibook and a 1.33 sweeeeeet im stoked with the updates!! :D

[dongmin]

Saying "CoreImage scales as needed" is the same as "Quartz Extreme scales as needed", meaning "you don't get the fancy crap with an old video card". It is for that reason, and that the iMac has the 5200, that I felt the iBook should have it too. Buying an iBook today means replacing my iMac DV that can't support Quartz Extreme with a new machine that won't fully support CoreImage enhancements. That is a disappointment, no matter how you try to justify it.Actually Apple NEVER CLAIMED that Quartz X is scalable. From the beginning, they said you'd need minimum 16 MB GPU to take advantage of it.

In the case of CoreImage, it's different. They ARE touting it as scalable. And there is no minimum spec for it. Of course, we have no idea what Apple mean when they say "scalable." Does it mean that certain features are just turned off or that they're at lower frame rates?

On an iBook with a Radeon 9200/32 MB VRAM, I am not going to get the water-ripple when Dashboard opens. Why? Because even though I will still be able to run Tiger, I won't get any of the CoreImage special effects.Are you presuming here or speaking from experience. I have no idea if this is true since I haven't seen the develolper copies. Can anyone, who's running Tiger on an iBook, confirm this??

[unsigned]

Can anyone, who's running Tiger on an iBook, confirm this??

also can you let me know who is going to the win the superbowl in january when you file your report from the future?

(even the developer preview is no indication of what tiger will be like. maybe ripple, maybe no. Is ripple a selling point? You can run apps built with CoreImage on any ibook that will run tiger. end of story.)

(p.s. I can play ut2004 on my cube even tho it was way below the recommended spec. sur eI havta turn some stuff off, but it runs.)

[virividox]

my powerbook only has more ram and an l3 cache thats it!!! damn i equal to an ibook :(

[maya]

Seems that way...so whilst tasty the iBooks lack the 64 coreimage ram that would have really made them a performer under Tiger. Shame.

I just don't get it, when Apple puts out the specs for Core Image included in Tiger, and they make a BIG DEAL about why oh why did they not make it GPU minimal compatible with that.

Unless Apple will change the GPU requirements for CoreImage to this 32MB minimum. Hmm :)

[Charko]

Most accurate rumors I can recall getting both the iBook and PM right.

Hey! The rumour originated from MacGadget, didn't it?

The American and Brit sites were giving the German site credit.

[maya]

my powerbook only has more ram and an l3 cache thats it!!! damn i equal to an ibook :(

Congratulations!!! you now have a top of the line iBook :D Actually worse you only have a 12inch screen the top of the line iBook has a 14inch ;) ;D

[clabbe deinum]

All this does is make is painful clear to me how long the PowerBook G4s have been languishing, and how underpowered they're starting to look not only vs. Wintel laptops but even now vs. iBooks. Better get that dual-G4 17" PowerBook prototype dusted off, Apple. A lot of people aren't going to wait 6-12 months for a G5 PowerBook (most likely 2.0 GHz at the most). I have three grand burning a hole in my pocket but I will not be spending it on one of the current G4 PowerBooks. *sigh*

same here just waiting for that damn uppgrade..

[maya]

Actually Apple NEVER CLAIMED that Quartz X is scalable. From the beginning, they said you'd need minimum 16 MB GPU to take advantage of it.

In the case of CoreImage, it's different. They ARE touting it as scalable. And there is no minimum spec for it. Of course, we have no idea what Apple mean when they say "scalable." Does it mean that certain features are just turned off or that they're at lower frame rates?


Then why does CoreImage have a supported GPU minimum on Apples site. I believe scalable means the supported GPU minimum and higher. Plus the load on the GPU when working on image intensive applications.

[yoak]

After much waiting around I just ordered a 12" with 60g HD and bluetooth.
This cost me about 1800NOK (£150) less than it would have yesterday. :)
My first Mac upgrade since my Performa 5400. Can`t wait to get my hans on it.

[Frobozz]

No new PowerBooks this year according to a statement made on MacCentral by Apple. This line of iBooks and the current crop of PowerBooks will be the last revisions for this year.

It's looking more and more clear that the PB G5 will be introduced at MWSF '05 and the Third Generation G5 (3.0+ GHz DualCore?) will be available in the February to March timeframe... probably the same time as OS X 10.4.

Quite and interesting set of months coming up. I think we will see the x800 an BTO option in PowerMacs soon, too. Sweet....

[yoak]

Is Crucial the best place to get more RAM? :confused:

[maya]

No new PowerBooks this year according to a statement made on MacCentral by Apple. This line of iBooks and the current crop of PowerBooks will be the last revisions for this year.

It's looking more and more clear that the PB G5 will be introduced at MWSF '05 and the Third Generation G5 (3.0+ GHz DualCore?) will be available in the February to March timeframe... probably the same time as OS X 10.4.

Quite and interesting set of months coming up. I think we will see the x800 an BTO option in PowerMacs soon, too. Sweet....

Well in that case can't wait till MWSF05 :D

I hope there is a G5 2.0GHz option, that is the one for me :)

[Frobozz]

Then why does CoreImage have a supported GPU minimum on Apples site. I believe scalable means the supported GPU minimum and higher. Plus the load on the GPU when working on image intensive applications.

There is a certain amount of debate as to weather CoreImage will scale to the CPU on low end systems. If this is the case, aside from a performance downgrade I would expect to see a feature downgrade, too.

My best guess is that CoreImage's exact specs are still in development and there might not be a definitive answer yet.

[maya]

Is Crucial the best place to get more RAM? :confused:

Do a froogle search for the best price. :)

[maya]

There is a certain amount of debate as to weather CoreImage will scale to the CPU on low end systems. If this is the case, aside from a performance downgrade I would expect to see a feature downgrade, too.

My best guess is that CoreImage's exact specs are still in development and there might not be a definitive answer yet.

That is good, since this would seem that Apple has shot it's self in the foot.

We shall see in the Tiger GM copy. :)

[thevessels]

does this mean an all superdrive powerbook lineup is on its way? :D

[clabbe deinum]

Yes, but it has been a while since Apple were even close to Moore's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law), and its a bit of a shock, even though it's good for everybody who loves their Macs... :D

Hopefully they keep up the good work so I can buy myself a brand new 12" iBook for Christmas next year that will kick my current 800MHz G4's a*s...

Whishlist for Oct/Nov/Dec 2005:
* 12" iBook dual 1.5GHz G4
* 1280x1024 resolution
* 100 GB HD
* 512 MB RAM (which I upgrade to 1.5GB)
* Superdrive
* 64 MB VRAM (I don't really need any more, but an 128-256 option would be nice)
* Built-in Airport Express and Bluetooth (to early for WiMax, i guess)

- is this to much to ask for...? ;)

why not a powerbok? why just a ibook?
my whishlist: (a little bir more realistic)

pb 12" (maby 13,3)
g4 1.5 ghz
512 mb
80 5400rpm Hdd
64 mb ati (opt 128)
superdrive
and all the standards.. :)

[Porchland]

Yes, of course. BT will become standard in the next revision. And you're probably also right about Tiger. So no Tiger before April/May.

I don't read today's announcement of iBook refreshes to have ANY impact on the release date of Tiger. That said, I don't think Tiger will be available until April 1 or so.

I would not be surprised to see a slight PowerBook refresh before Tiger.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Looks like Crusial is the only option at flexi-data (http://flexi-data.no/f.asp?action=produktinfo&popup=113661), anyway... Compare the price to Komplett or other Norwegian sites...

Gratulerer med ny maskin! ;)

[maya]

I don't read today's announcement of iBook refreshes to have ANY impact on the release date of Tiger. That said, I don't think Tiger will be available until April 1 or so.

I would not be surprised to see a slight PowerBook refresh before Tiger.

Isn't BT v.2.0 waiting for approval. Has anyone been following that news?

[bunkre]

did anyone else notice that when you click on an ibook config on the apple store, the summary at the top right shows the wrong processor speed? am i doing something wrong here?

http://bunkre.com/imgs/ibook.gif

[neutrino23]

1995
Powerbook 5300ce
117MHz PPC 603e
32MB RAM 16kB cache 33.3MHz system bus
1.1GB HD
1.44 MB floppy disk (google this if you don't know what it is)
NO graphics card. 1MB graphics memory
640 x 480 active matrix color display
6.2 pounds
$6,800

2004
iBook 12" 1.2 Ghz G4
512K L2 Cache
256 MB Ram
30 GB Hard Drive
Combo Drive
Airport Extreme
$999

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

why not a powerbok? why just a ibook?
my whishlist: (a little bir more realistic)

pb 12" (maby 13,3)
g4 1.5 ghz
512 mb
80 5400rpm Hdd
64 mb ati (opt 128)
superdrive
and all the standards.. :)

Dunno... always liked the iBooks (even though my last machine was a Pismo, and that is still going strong...). Of course if a PowerBooks meets my specs, and I have the money, then I might go for it, but I don't think I will buy a G4-based PB next Chirstmas... ;)

I think I will prefer a standard 12" to a 13" Widescreen, though... but I may change my mind when and if they're out... :)

[Porchland]

The two changes that were needed:

1 - 12" iBook should have been a 40 GB drive, instead of 30. On the custom build page of the Apple Store, HD sizes are 30/60/80. Where did the 40 go? Unless there is a supply problem on the 40, the 40 should have been the base size.


I don't follow the component markets, but I'm inclined to think Apple will soon need to push forward on hard drive sizes. An 80 GB drive is fine for basic applications and running a 15 GB iPod, but I just don't see it serving content to a 60 GB iPod. External drives are great for video-intensive apps and for storage, but more stored video and photo content are going to push the need for larger factory-installed drives.

Factory-installed drives haven't kept up with the iPod.

[thevessels]

ugh i got that too ..

hey doubleing your hard drive only costs $75 .. yea!

thats about the money you save on the airport card ... :rolleyes:

[iGary]

Very happy with this update.

Glad Apple is seeing that wireless is no longer a luxury feature.

Trying to decide whether to pick mine up from the store tonight, or to order it with the 60 gb hard drive.

Decisions, decisions.

[maya]

Dunno... always liked the iBooks (even though my last machine was a Pismo, and that is still going strong...). Of cource if a PowerBooks meets my specs, ans I have the money, then I might go for it, but I don't think I will buy a G4-based PB next Chirstmas... ;)


I don't blame you the Pismo is going strong since it has a 1M cache, and max out the ram and you won't notice much difference from the new iBook or PB line(unless working on graphic intensive applications).

Still love my Pismo, even the trackpad seems effective. The hew trackpads lack something. I can't place my finger on it. :confused:

[thevessels]

Very happy with this update.

Glad Apple is seeing that wireless is no longer a luxury feature.

Trying to decide whether to pick mine up from the store tonight, or to order it with the 60 gb hard drive.

Decisions, decisions.

60 ! 60 ! DO IT !

[ZildjianKX]

Great, the 'Apple is expensive' argument has become a less valid. Pity there is no gfx update and the screen resolutions are the same. I would've liked to see a 14" or 15" with more than 1024x786. Right now the 12" is still the most attractive one for me, because of this. I'm thinking of buying one. The only thing I need is the money :D

Even though the iBook is relatively cheap for macs, it still doesn't hurt the PC competition by much :(

http://slickdeals.net/#p5335

a 1.6 GHz Centrino with 512 MB of RAM for $750.

Too bad it runs Windows...

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Trying to decide whether to pick mine up from the store tonight, or to order it with the 60 gb hard drive.

Decisions, decisions.

60 ! 60 ! DO IT !

I second that. You r e a l l y need those 60GB... ;)

[Xtremehkr]

They made improvements in all of the right areas. They may have been able to do slightly better with the GPU (as usual it seems) but I think they know what they are doing.

Can you put RAM into an iBook by yourself? cause $540 for 1.25 Gig is daylight robbery.

It makes me really wonder about what is up next for the PB though. The iBook has become a strong competitor now and if they are doing all of this with the iBook I can only wonder at the improvements they are making to the PB.

I don't know if making BT a standard item makes sense yet. There aren't that many products that are BT enabled yet and it only adds to the cost. When printers, scanners, all in one office machines, photocopiers, and other office items get standard BT, it would make much more sense. I know that you can get adapters already but it would be a little pricey to do all of that, the adapters aren't all that cheap yet.

[johnnyjibbs]

It's funny how, a year ago when the iBook G4s first came out (at 800MHz, 933 and 1GHz if you recall), people were saying how the ATI 9200 mobility in the iBook G4 (with 32MB VRAM just like today) was better than the 5200GO (32MB VRAM) found in the PB 12" at the time, and now people are wanting "that crappy graphics card" in the iBook ;)

Ah, the joys of CoreImage. Don't worry - there doesn't have to be another iBook revision before the release of Tiger and it's not as if Tiger won't run on these iBooks :p Do you really think Apple would make maachines now that wouldn't run Tiger? :D

[wildmac]

Nice update, why is BT still optional? The iBooks are still stuck with the Radeon 9200 (which doesn't support CoreImage!).

Because BT is forbidden in many environs, and it's just not used as much.

[Windowlicker]

This must mean some kind of new Powerbook because the iBook is nearly identical in spec to the lower end Powerbooks.

Well, there are still differences.

- iBook has DDR266, as the PB has DDR333
- iBook 32VRAM against PB 64-128VRAM
- Combo vs SD
- BT is built in into PBs
- PBs have true display mirroring, and 15" instead of 14" display
- 15" & 17" PBs have FW800 and gigabit ethernet
- PB has audio in
- anything else?

So there still are lots of differences. Not so dramatical ones, but these will make the PowerBooks still the pro laptops and iBooks consumer laptops.

[Zaty]

I don't read today's announcement of iBook refreshes to have ANY impact on the release date of Tiger. That said, I don't think Tiger will be available until April 1 or so.



No, it doesn't have any impact on Tiger's release date. I just wanted to point out that it's more than likely that Tiger won't ship early next year b/c I think Apple might want to change the specs of some of their computers so they are all 100% Tiger ready.

As for the PBs, apparently there will no be PB refresh before Christmas which can only mean two things:

a) Apple is stuck with what they have, i.e. no faster CPUs, bigger hard drives, etc.

or

b) Apple will introduce a new PB linie early next year, probably at MWSF.

[cube]

Nobody who knows what he's getting will buy an obsolete machine incapable of supporting Core Image in six months unless he is really desperate.
Buy this an expect to get a bad deal the day you want to get rid of it on ebay.

[friction3000]

I need a laptop. I really want to buy one before a big work/pleasure trip in mid-November. I want a PB, but come on-- i'm not buying the old ones that are out now, especially with the iBooks being so similar. Don't make me buy an iBook... or nothing at all! I've got the cash in my pocket... c'mon, get those PBs out soon!

I know that the G4 processors can't get much faster, currently. That's ok, they're fine, but throw in some more stuff and give us a little price cut.

[narco]

HMM, I sold my 12" powerbook to pay for my 2.0 G5. I hate not being able to carry my computer around with me, so a 12" iBook would be perfect for those days that I want to work outside. I've always preferred the PB design to the "cheap" looking iBook design, but for $1,000, it's not that bad.

.narco

[ASP272]

The graphics card is the issue for me. I just can't accept buying a machine with only 32mb. When I ran through the Apple store purchasing it only gave options for a larger HD (80) and more RAM, neither or which really go that high. They've definitely kept the PB the only option for music, video, and gaming lovers. I don't know why they even put iLife on the iBook. :(

[Zaty]

I need a laptop. I really want to buy one before a big work/pleasure trip in mid-November. I want a PB, but come on-- i'm not buying the old ones that are out now, especially with the iBooks being so similar. Don't make me buy an iBook... or nothing at all! I've got the cash in my pocket... c'mon, get those PBs out soon!

I know that the G4 processors can't get much faster, currently. That's ok, they're fine, but throw in some more stuff and give us a little price cut.



"This new line-up of iBooks, along with the current PowerBooks we have will make-up the complete portable line-up we will be offering for the holidays," said Moody.

So it seems you will have to wait until at least MWSF in January to get a revised PowerBook.

[nmk]

I've believed for a while that Apple will wait to upgrade the PB till MW in Jan, and that this will be a major upgrade. I really don't think that the processor issue is such a big deal because the PB's do pretty well against recent Pentium M notebooks. Before someone starts to howl on this one, I recently bought a 1.5 Ghz Pentium M, and its overall responsiveness is VERY poor compared to my 1.5 powerbook.

However, one thing that needs to be looked into immediately is the PB screens. Even though the PB's have very good screens (in terms of contrast and viewing angle) compared to a lot of Wintel laptops, they are no longer the best. You should take a look at the screen that Sony has put on its latest 17" beast. That is one hell of a screen.

I'm not really sure if the next Powerbook will see a G5, due to the heat constraints. However, even if they manage to include a 1920*1600 screen and get a processor near 2 Ghz with a memory controller in this system, it will be one hell of a machine (and worthy of apples efforts to design a new enclosure).

So here is what I think we might see in Jan
Powerbook 17"
17" 1920*1600 screen
80 GB 5400 rmp hard drive
2.0 Ghz G4 with on board memory controller
200 Mhz system bus
ATI 9800 (or whatever else is the newest at the time)
New design

[iPC]

And my 12" G3 800 seem even older, even though it's not even one yet (bought it as a leftover).

I feel your pain. I would _LOVE_ a G4 based iBook. Serious lack of funds this year though (I bought a new CBR600RR instead!).

[gekko513]

Just for the record ... I think this iBook upgrade is great!! With the small extra price cut we got in Norway, you can get an iBook with 512MB RAM, 1.2GHz and Airport E for less than the price of an iBook with 256MB RAM, 1.0GHz without AE a week ago.

[Savage Henry]

Nobody who knows what he's getting will buy an obsolete machine incapable of supporting Core Image in six months unless he is really desperate.
Buy this an expect to get a bad deal the day you want to get rid of it on ebay.

I think Apple's unit sales figures beg to differ. This range will only improve on some already tasty numbers.

Get over it. Core Image is not the most important thing in the world for entry level laptops.

[Lancetx]

The graphics card is the issue for me. I just can't accept buying a machine with only 32mb. When I ran through the Apple store purchasing it only gave options for a larger HD (80) and more RAM, neither or which really go that high. They've definitely kept the PB the only option for music, video, and gaming lovers. I don't know why they even put iLife on the iBook. :(

That's funny, but iTunes, iMovie and iPhoto seem to run just fine even on my old iMac G3. :D C'mon now, I realize that people are upset over the lack of a "fully CoreImage compatible" graphics card, but that doesn't make them unusable by any stretch and it's silly to suggest that it does.

These are consumer notebooks afterall and as I mentioned earlier, the graphics cards in the iBook are far better than what comes in most sub $1,000 Wintel notebooks. If you need a pro notebook, you need to buy a PowerBook, not an iBook. You're certainly not going to get a pro level Wintel notebook for under $1,000 either.

[holbie]

Flame me if I am wrong, but wasn't the case all white before?

Now the inside seems to be a light shade of grey.

[173080]

My uncle ordered a 12" iBook the first day of this month. It is custom built, and hasn't received it yet. I wonder if he is getting one of the newer ones or if there is any policy for this so that he gets a newer iBook. :(

[maya]

My uncle ordered a 12" iBook the first day of this month. It is custom built, and hasn't received it yet. I wonder if he is getting one of the newer ones or if there is any policy for this so that he gets a newer iBook. :(

Cancel the order or Re-Order it and get it transfered to the new model(s). :D

[maya]

Flame me if I am wrong, but wasn't the case all white before?

Now the inside seems to be a light shade of grey.

The first rev.A iBooks were all white its been this inside off-white colour for some time now.

[takao]

Just for the record ... I think this iBook upgrade is great!! With the small extra price cut we got in Norway, you can get an iBook with 512MB RAM, 1.2GHz and Airport E for less than the price of an iBook with 256MB RAM, 1.0GHz without AE a week ago.

yeah especially for those planning the ibook purchase for early 2005 ...i hope the prices stay this way and specs will improve further untill then... ;)

[Mord]

All you people bitching about core image let me set it straight as someone that is running 10.4 on an ibook.

you do not get any ripple crap or any of the fancy effects shown off.

i have seen this on a friends g5 and you do get the fancy crap, all this scaleability BS is BS.

as for needing 64MB vram the vram has nothing to do with it.

the 128MB geforce 4 ti is not a core image card

the 12" 1GHz powerbook's 32MB 5200 is a core image card.

for core image you need one of the following cards:

ATI Radeon 9800 XT
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
ATI Radeon 9600 XT
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
NVIDIA GeForceFX Go 5200
NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 Ultra

aka you need a directX 9 card.

it's the gpu features not the cards vram.

[ewinemiller]

The "previous" (i.e., a week ago) iBooks already had 512KB L2 Cache. The*only* difference in this update is CPU/cache speed and built-in AE instead of optionnal. Oh, and 100$US price drop.

Yes but we weren't talking about the previous ibook, but the 800s. They had only 256k. The original poster was lamenting the new ibook was 50% faster than his 800 (2 previous) and to console him, I was pointing out that it was actually a bit faster than even 50%. ;)

[Sharewaredemon]

Yes, but how much do you have to spend on a AE base station to make use of the AE card?

I'm sorry i didn't clarify, my university is a wireless campus, so people really feel like they need wireless, even if they don't use it.

[Raziel]

Hey guys and Girls, I'm new to this Mac business and was just wondering how I would be able to put a DVD movie on the hard drive so that I may watch it on my travels and I do travel allot. Also I think it would use less battery power and thus last longer. The 12" iBook seems to be the ideal thing for me and durable. :)

[Mord]

yeah i have an airport card but i dont have airport at home just at school and on hotspots which are abundent on oxford street

[Poff]

Okay, where's the price drop in Australia? It's still $1695 for the 12" ibook...

Try clicking the iBooks in the store. The stores front-page still shows the old prices in Norway, but the new prices come up when you click it.

[maya]

Hey guys and Girls, I'm new to this Mac business and was just wondering how I would be able to put a DVD movie on the hard drive so that I may watch it on my travels and I do travel allot. Also I think it would use less battery power and thus last longer. The 12" iBook seems to be the ideal thing for me and durable. :)

Search Google for "mac DVD rippers". Simple :D

[Skiniftz]

I recently talked a friend into buying an iBook with AP which she ordered on the 5th October and took delivery on the 14th.

She is going to be royally pissed that the priced has just dropped £100 for an identical but faster system.

I've heard various rumours about Apple policy for returning systems bought just before an update - can anyone tell me for sure how this works and how to go about it in the UK?

Also isn't there something in UK law about this?

Advice appreciated.

[maya]

I recently talked a friend into buying an iBook with AP which she ordered on the 5th October and took delivery on the 14th.

She is going to be royally pissed that the priced has just dropped £100 for an identical but faster system.

I've heard various rumours about Apple policy for returning systems bought just before an update - can anyone tell me for sure how this works and how to go about it in the UK?

Also isn't there something in UK law about this?

Advice appreciated.

If she hasn't opened the iBook box she might get all her money back with or without a restocking fee (depends on merchant).

If she already opened the box there are very few options to consider. A trade-in might be one of them. :)

Its only been 14 days you might have some luck with trading it in with the new model or getting some extra £'s back. :D

[chevyorange]

I agree with you 1000000%. Computers constantly get better. The new low ends eventually (and, by eventually, I mean 6 months :)) become far better than the old top of the line machines.

I paid $1500 for an iMac G3 400MHz DV SE. YOU, today, can buy a bottom of the barrell iBook for cheaper and destroy what my old computer could do.


Excellent point. I paid about the same for the same machine in late 1999. It was a great machine, lasted 5 years and even then I didn't feel the NEED to upgrade. I was running Panther on it and the only thing I wish I could have done was use an iSight - not a thing to upgrade for though when you can still do photos, iTunes, email, internet, .Mac.. etc.

I just happened to be able to upgrade to my new computer, now mom is happily a "switcher" for free and is ready to buy her first new Mac!

I'm a fan of just about everything Apple does - yeah, the boggle my mind sometimes with some decisions but this iBook is such a deal that I'm ready to buy one even though I don't need it!

I can't wait to hear the specs on the new PowerBooks. :D

[aliasfox]

I voted negative on this. Why? These are very marginal updates. The best iBook still only matches the 12" PB, which means Apple only has to boost the specifications of the PowerBook line oh-so-marginally to keep them ahead of iBooks. Remember, when the eMac was introduced in April, it superceded the specifications of the iMac in a couple important categories- more L2 cache, better optical drive, and most importantly, undercut the iMac 17" and 20" by $700 and $1100, respectively (I think my numbers are correct). If Apple had released a 12" iBook with the 1.5 GHz G4, GeForce 5200 Ultra with 64 MB, 167 MHz bus, and 40 gig HD, I'd be drooling over what Apple was planning on for the near future (next week or the week after). Right now, Apple can boost the PowerBooks to 1.5 and 1.67 GHz, call it a day, and people will still buy because they're still faster than iBooks.

This mediocre update only means that PowerBooks are also only getting a mediocre update, meaning Freescale, for all their splash, have yet to produce anything worthwhile.

Of course, I might just be bitter because I am just watching the resale value of my Rev A 12" PB drop like a stone with each successive iBook release.

[maya]

Of course, I might just be bitter because I am just watching the resale value of my Rev A 12" PB drop like a stone with each successive iBook release.

I know how you feel. :(

Well I just might buy an iBook in the future since it has the cost and performance bit. And have the my PB as a supporter to import the audio since it has the port for it.

PB resale value seems to drop more than an iBook resale value. :(

[johnnyjibbs]

the 12" 1GHz powerbook's 32MB 5200 is a core image card.

<snip>

it's the gpu features not the cards vram.
So my 12" PowerBook will run CoreImage - I had originally thought so but then all this talk of 64MB VRAM but me off. I guess my PowerBook will have the most scaled down version of CoreImage that's possible - worst graphics card on the list and limited VRAM.

And my brother's new iBook will not have any CoreImage effects whatsoever. (Not that it really matters to be honest :rolleyes: )

[KindredMAC]

Well as usual, Apple takes what could have been a perfect upgrade, and intentionally cripples it for no reason.

The two changes that were needed:

1 - 12" iBook should have been a 40 GB drive, instead of 30. On the custom build page of the Apple Store, HD sizes are 30/60/80. Where did the 40 go? Unless there is a supply problem on the 40, the 40 should have been the base size.



There is a shortage of 40GB laptop HD's. My iBook's 40 Gigger took a dump 2 months ago and I waited for about 3 weeks and still nothing so I told them to put a 60 Gigger in. And you know what? I can't believe I ever had a 40 GB HD. I love having all the extra room for Scratch Disk on my iBook.

I think the updates are quite nice today on all products, including the low end PowerMac G5. I need to buy 2 new PowerMacs next year for work and I just found them with today's Single 1.8Ghz G5's. They are perfect to replace our aging G4 Power Macs which already have 2 year old 20" CRTs attached to them. And I know that I can beat the piss out of them for 3-5 years with upgrades.

Now for myself at home, I think I would rather buy the 20" iMac G5 for the "bang for your buck" value. I would need a new moniter at home if I bought the low end G5 PM which adds an extra cost. So the iMac is probably the perfect choice for "prosumers" and the new 1.8Ghz Single G5 PM is perfect for studios and agencies.

EVERYONE WINS WITH APPLE!

[stevehaslip]

I know how you feel. :(

Well I just might buy an iBook in the future since it has the cost and performance bit. And have the my PB as a supporter to import the audio since it has the port for it.

PB resale value seems to drop more than an iBook resale value. :(

ah well, there isn't much you can do. just pretend that the updates never happened! lol! Thats what I try to do, you spend alot of money and a year later the thing you bought is 2/3rds the computer that they are currently selling!

The way i see it is that you still have a computer that does what you need, plus it looks really cool!

And those are the most important things! There are much more important things to do/worry about than how up to date your computer is. Don't let it get you down. It just makes your next upgrade in a couple of years time so much better!

[AdamR01]

1995
Powerbook 5300ce
117MHz PPC 603e
32MB RAM 16kB cache 33.3MHz system bus
1.1GB HD
1.44 MB floppy disk (google this if you don't know what it is)
NO graphics card. 1MB graphics memory
640 x 480 active matrix color display
6.2 pounds
$6,800

2004
iBook 12" 1.2 Ghz G4
512K L2 Cache
256 MB Ram
30 GB Hard Drive
Combo Drive
Airport Extreme
$999

Actually that Powerbook 5300ce has to have a graphics card. Something has to interface with that 1mb of video ram and draw the picture on the screen
:) .

[iGary]

I second that. You r e a l l y need those 60GB... ;)

I'm thinking logic would outweigh my anxiousness.

I'm just going to the Apple Store to buy an iMac G5 for my office tonight and thought it would be super-cool to drop the coin on the iBook while I am there.

If I am going to keep it for a while, I should just wait for the custom build.

[iMeowbot]

In the case of CoreImage, it's different. They ARE touting it as scalable. And there is no minimum spec for it. Of course, we have no idea what Apple mean when they say "scalable." Does it mean that certain features are just turned off or that they're at lower frame rates?
It means that the gratuitous eye candy doesn't show up, but software linked to it still works.

You can kind of compare this to the situation in the past where different models had varying palette sizes. Sure, 32 bits looks better, but 16 bits was passable and even 8-bit displays could squeak by for a long time.

It wasn't that long ago when a one-bit 512 x 342 display was impressive ;)

[AidenShaw]

My first Mac upgrade since my Performa 5400. Can`t wait to get my hans on it.

I'm sure that your Hans will like it! ;)

[Tulse]

how I would be able to put a DVD movie on the hard drive

DVDBackup (www.wormintheapple.gr/macdvd/DVDbackup.html)

(And yes, it is my understanding that running a hard drive takes much less power than running a DVD drive, so watching a movie from your HD should save your battery.)

[appleface]

i tried to search the thread, and i didn't see that anyone had mentioned the education model. a nude 12" model is available for $899 to students and teachers. it lacks the combo drive and the airport card.

[Windowlicker]

I don't know about anyone else.. but when I add bluetooth to either of the 14" models, it takes $25 bucks off the price.

Now thats a deal! haha

must be a bug of some kind.. I tried the same on the Finnish site and everything worked fine (if fine means higher price that is).

[Peel]

I voted negative on this. Why? These are very marginal updates.
But remember that this speed bump/price drop isn't intended to intice someone who just bought an iBook last week into buying a newer one. It's to get someone who's got an 18-24 month old ibook to upgrade. Very few people (much less than 1%) upgrade with "every" update. And those that do, are far more likely in the high-end cutting edge market than the marketed iBook customer.

[chanoc]

The 133MHz FSB seems a bit dated in my opinion.

[stevep]

Very tempted to get a 1.33 combo now, but can anyone tell me if its possible to plug in an external monitor (say a 17" ) and run it at 1280 x 1024? Or won't the video card handle anything more than 1024 x 768?

[aafuss1]

The 133MHz FSB seems a bit dated in my opinion.
This would be to have lower pricing and other issues , so the iBook's FSB does not reach the speed of a PB one

[Maxx Power]

The 133MHz FSB seems a bit dated in my opinion.


Yes, very outdated. That's an artificial limitation just like the video out on the iBook is restricted to mirroring. Dirty tactics in my opinion. Where else are you going to find a modern day laptop at any price range that doesn't support second monitor on the video out port ? Or any laptop that has its FSB lowered for the sake of "consumer level" ?

I guess when one can't sink any lower, one always finds new ways to slide downwards.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

A bit dated??!!??

The 133MHz FSB seems a bit dated in my opinion.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

The powerbooks only have a 167MHz FSB.. 167!!!! They're LOWERING the FSB on the G5 iMac to 600MHz! and my $3000 PB has a 167MHz FSB.. insanity. Get the damn G4 out the door asap.

Yes, very outdated. That's an artificial limitation just like the video out on the iBook is restricted to mirroring. Dirty tactics in my opinion. Where else are you going to find a modern day laptop at any price range that doesn't support second monitor on the video out port ? Or any laptop that has its FSB lowered for the sake of "consumer level" ?

I guess when one can't sink any lower, one always finds new ways to slide downwards.

[aswitcher]

the 1GHz 12" powerbook had a 32MB core image gpu it's the gpu's features that define it's ability, i have a 16MB gpu and i have quartz extreme.

and about this scalability crap it scales as in it plain dont work on older macs i dant have any water effects or anything like that on my copy of 10.4 on my ibook.

So your agreeing you DO need a crunchy big video RAM to make real use of the CoreImage ? Sure compatibility is one thing but surely the VRAM will have a big impact...?

[jackieonasses]

Very tempted to get a 1.33 combo now, but can anyone tell me if its possible to plug in an external monitor (say a 17" ) and run it at 1280 x 1024? Or won't the video card handle anything more than 1024 x 768? it will mirror the lcd since it is a ibook. there is a hack out there that lets you do a monitor spanning. there you can put the resolution higher, or just get a powerbook.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Any hack to get around Apple's junk is a good hack: ibook monitor spanning hack (http://www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html)

it will mirror the lcd since it is a ibook. there is a hack out there that lets you do a monitor spanning. there you can put the resolution higher, or just get a powerbook.

[jackieonasses]

The powerbooks only have a 167MHz FSB.. 167!!!! They're LOWERING the FSB on the G5 iMac to 600MHz! and my $3000 PB has a 167MHz FSB.. insanity. Get the damn G4 out the door asap. crap man for the fsb is so slow because of heat issues. really. The g4 is a wonderful machine. I could understand putting a faster bus on the desktops but my 1.0 ghz powerbook is faster then i really did imagine. (and i do dual screen video editing.)


oops! i double posted. sorry.

[stevep]

Any hack to get around Apple's junk is a good hack: ibook monitor spanning hack

Thanks - I knew one of you would know.
So an iBook for portability, with a big monitor on the desk at home, plus the hack (on another thread) to connect an external DVD writer for iDVD.
Which means I don't have to secretly really want / need a PowerBook....

[Some_Big_Spoon]

One of the Mods can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the FSB on the G4 can't go about 200MHz, no matter how much over clocking they do to the chip (i.e. 1.5GHz G4 is over clocked 1.33).

I'd like a faster laptop one way or another and the FSB and memory addressing on the G5's are very, very speedy.


crap man for the fsb is so slow because of heat issues. really. The g4 is a wonderful machine. I could understand putting a faster bus on the desktops but my 1.0 ghz powerbook is faster then i really did imagine. (and i do dual screen video editing.)


oops! i double posted. sorry.

[Bendit]

Apple needs to raise the resolution and overall lcd quality on the 12" powerbook to further differentiate it from the iBook line.

The iBook and 12" Powerbook LCD screens are really crappy compared to alot of other laptops and the 15" PBooks. The colours are poor and they are quite dim under regular lights.

I would love if my PowerBook had a resolution that was higher than the bare minimum. 1280x1024 would be perfect.

[CaptainCaveMann]

The front side buss is low on paper but we all know that in real world use the G4 is not far behind many of its p4 or pm or amd counterparts,especially when you consider the portability of the PB and the iBook.Yes the new P4 laptops with a 533 front side buss are faster but they also way 8 or 9 pounds.Its all give and take i guess. :rolleyes:

[Some_Big_Spoon]

NOT SO!!!! Everyone read this, please. Check out the sony site: Sony Ultraportable (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_X505_Series&Dept=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers&TemplateName=item%2fsy_item_b&ProductSKU=VGNX505ZPKIT)

Leave aside the RAM & HD limitations due to the thiness, this has a 1.1GHz Processor and a 400MHz FSB.. 400! It's not the heat, it's not the packaging, it's the lmitations of the chip that Apple hitched it's wagon to.

EDIT: and a 1MB L2 Cache.. *sigh*

The front side buss is low on paper but we all know that in real world use the G4 is not far behind many of its p4 or pm or amd counterparts,especially when you consider the portability of the PB and the iBook.Yes the new P4 laptops with a 533 front side buss are faster but they also way 8 or 9 pounds.Its all give and take i guess. :rolleyes:

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

NOT SO!!!! Everyone read this, please. Check out the sony site: Sony Ultraportable (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_X505_Series&Dept=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers&TemplateName=item%2fsy_item_b&ProductSKU=VGNX505ZPKIT)

Leave aside the RAM & HD limitations due to the thiness, this has a 1.1GHz Processor and a 400MHz FSB.. 400! It's not the heat, it's not the packaging, it's the lmitations of the chip that Apple hitched it's wagon to.

EDIT: and a 1MB L2 Cache.. *sigh*

And a $3000 price tag...

Not very competitive with the 12" iBook... :rolleyes:

[Lancetx]

NOT SO!!!! Everyone read this, please. Check out the sony site: Sony Ultraportable (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_X505_Series&Dept=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers&TemplateName=item%2fsy_item_b&ProductSKU=VGNX505ZPKIT)

Umm, that thing is $3,000, it only runs at 1.1 GHz, it has integrated graphics with shared memory, only a 20GB hard drive and no internal optical drive? No thanks, I'll take a 12" iBook or PowerBook over that overpriced thing any day.

[MacNeXT]

Any hack to get around Apple's junk is a good hack: ibook monitor spanning hack (http://www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html)

Will this work on the new iBooks? No issues with different firmware or something like that? It also violates the warranty does it? How serious is that? I really want to know cause I want to buy one and I also want to use it as a desktop replacement with external monitor and keyboard.

[mashinhead]

I think now is a good time to buy an ibook if any. but whats usually held me back is the screen (and the cheap key board they have on ibooks now kinda bite). I currently have an 800 mhz powerbook, but over the coming months, i'm planning to buy a new desktop and laptop and get rid of this one.

apples says the new ibooks have a TFT XVGA screen. My question is how does the screen resolution and image quality compare to a powerbook. has the ibook screen improved over the last couple years, cos as i rememeber it the powerbook always had a noticibly better screen, in which case i don't want an ibook. anyone know?

[wizard]

These machines aren't going to suddenly be unable to work when Tiger is released!

Now that really isn't the point is it????

Frankly all this update is, in my estimation, is the minmal required for Apple to be able to advertise the iBooks as new or improved for the holiday season. Beyond that it really isn't much of an update.

Other have already pointed out just how stale the current design of the iBook is. Maybe Apple is waiting for March to do a proper overhaul of the line. I really don't know my self, what I do know is that it would be silly for anybody to go out an buy any new Mac hardware at this point that doesn't have support for Core Imagining. One can imply that the CPU will take care of the processing that owuld be off loaded to the GPU, but what I think we will see is that alot of realtime capability will go out the window. So far out the window in fact that it might not be worthwhile to run CI at all on none compliant machines.

Thanks
Dave

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Was speaking more to the powerbook, as per previous posts, and it's 167MHz bus.

And a $3000 price tag...

Not very competitive with the 12" iBook... :rolleyes:

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Was really talking about the bus speed that's capable in a small space, not a model to model comparison. Maybe I should speak slower next time.

Umm, that thing is $3,000, it only runs at 1.1 GHz, it has integrated graphics with shared memory, only a 20GB hard drive and no internal optical drive? No thanks, I'll take a 12" iBook or PowerBook over that overpriced thing any day.

[irishvic]

i just got a 1 gig ibook like 3 weeks ago and this comes out, Wonderful, anything i can do about this or am i stuck with my old one.

[iMeowbot]

crap man for the fsb is so slow because of heat issues. really.
Really, 167 is all the 7447A can do, even if it was stuffed into a mighty tower. I'm guessing that the iBooks are stuck at 133 because they were originally designed to use the 7457 which did max out at that point.

[clubgus]

I just want to add my 2 cents
For all those who brought the last line of iBook G4 including myself i find that the current update of the Apple iBook G4 is a Mere Ripple in Ocean.
The Specs compared to my current iBook G4 is Really very Minor i brought my iBook in July 2004 and compared to the latest iBook is really not much to go out and upgrade.
My IBook G4 was the 14" model with the combo drive the latest iBook has a small increase in CPU speed, a added Wireless Airport card and a 20G more Hard Drive space all this for $100-$110 less then the previous iBook that is ok with me!, i am not worried about that, I think the best way to look at this situation is b4 you upgrade your 2+ month old iBook, you should wait till OSX Tiger comes out next year and you might get lucky and Apple will further upgrade the iBook to a G5. also remember that these new iBooks still come with the base 256Mb Ram which is too low to run OSX Applications for todays standards. I am Happy with my Current iBook and i think nothing of the latest update of the iBook. for me change has to be very big! a iBook G5 with 512Mb, 80G HDD is a Major Change worth upgrading to.

[Brother Michael]

I for one love the fact that the iBook now has an Airport Express already in it and whats more, I love that price.

Truly this is now THE BEST consumer laptop.

Mike

[Santaduck]

Great value.
I am happy its not a big makeover, graphicscard, HD, RAM ect.
Makes me feel better about my 1 week old ibook.

go for the return & restock option (within 10 days), for a small % of the purchase price... (and read the MR buying guide & release rumors next time...)

[pockyrevolution]

"That’s because Apple engineers equipped the new iBook G4 with a powerful, professional-level graphics processor. Using an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB of DDR SDRAM and AGP 4X, the iBook G4 delivers blistering 2D, 3D and multimedia graphics performance for today’s most demanding games and applications."

Since when is a 32MB video card "professional-level"?

What is Apple doing with their latest machines and graphic card offerings?! (iMac G5 and this ibooks)

I wish Apple would at least push the 14 incher to 64MB....we're gonna get laughed at!

[AdamR01]

"That’s because Apple engineers equipped the new iBook G4 with a powerful, professional-level graphics processor. Using an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB of DDR SDRAM and AGP 4X, the iBook G4 delivers blistering 2D, 3D and multimedia graphics performance for today’s most demanding games and applications."

Since when is a 32MB video card "professional-level"?

What is Apple doing with their latest machines and graphic card offerings?! (iMac G5 and this ibooks)

I wish Apple would at least push the 14 incher to 64MB....we're gonna get laughed at!

Its not. Key word, graphics processor.

[sw1tcher]

I've believed for a while that Apple will wait to upgrade the PB till MW in Jan, and that this will be a major upgrade.

So here is what I think we might see in Jan
Powerbook 17"
17" 1920*1600 screen
80 GB 5400 rmp hard drive
2.0 Ghz G4 with on board memory controller
200 Mhz system bus
ATI 9800 (or whatever else is the newest at the time)
New design

If they release new PowerBook's during MWSF, they won't change the design. It would cost too much to come up with a new design to only use for a brief period since G5 PowerBooks are already in the works.

I think we'll either see speed bumped G4's in Jan or they'll announce G5's, which is what I'm hoping for. Want one so badly.

[5300cs]

These new ones look really cool. Though, while I love the iBooks to death, I don't think I'm gonna buy one. There are 2 things that piss me off about them.

1. They're updated so often it's like flavor of the month to me. I have a G3 800 iBook from last summer and there's already been how many revisions since then?? They're not future-proof enough for me.

2. They scratch right out of the box. They look great, but use 'em for a month and they look like hell. I suppose your mileage may differ, but I'm not about to keep mine in some super-protective cocoon all the time when I'm not using it, I want to use it, and REALLY use it. My TiBook took a pounding, and my 12" PB is still ticking along.

If they ever make them with scratch-proof plastic (like the clam-shell ones) then I'll reconsider.

...and don't even get me started on the logic board fiasco. I've only had mine replaced once, but I really feel for the people who've had theirs die 3 or even 4 times.

[Maxx Power]

The front side buss is low on paper but we all know that in real world use the G4 is not far behind many of its p4 or pm or amd counterparts,especially when you consider the portability of the PB and the iBook.Yes the new P4 laptops with a 533 front side buss are faster but they also way 8 or 9 pounds.Its all give and take i guess. :rolleyes:

Its not give or take, its just take. Apple takes the profits, and they take away the 167 full fledged bus. My Centrino machine have a 400 Mhz FSB, running at 1.6 Ghz, it weighs less than 6 pounds and has mostly metallic casings. Fan never turns on unless i run benchmarks or play games. And if you refer to Cinebench benchmarks, a universal cross platform benchmark, you'll see the aging G4 architecture waning. The G4 was competitive with the PIII, not with any of the newer chips in either camp, G4's destiny is perish or become a strictly embedded chip, or be revamped and spun the silicon a few more times. The only good part of the G4 is the vector unit, which we all praise, but that's the unit that requires the most FSB bandwidth, at 133 Mhz, the G4 have troubles filling the VMX unit with instructions, and compete with that is the regular floating point which is concurrent with VMX and the integer pipelines, you have a big choke point.
Get the G4 out of the door, or get the G4's updated, either way, the current iteration of G4's are competitive with yesterday's machines.

[sw1tcher]

ah well, there isn't much you can do. just pretend that the updates never happened! lol! Thats what I try to do, you spend alot of money and a year later the thing you bought is 2/3rds the computer that they are currently selling!

That's why you need to stay away from here and similar places once you get a new Mac. Otherwise you'll go crazy.

[Yvan256]

I currently have an 800 mhz powerbook, but over the coming months, i'm planning to buy a new desktop and laptop and get rid of this one.

I'm prepared to take care of your "800MHz PowerBook problem" for a mere 100$.

Wait, I'm feeling friendly today.

I'll take care of your "800MHz PowerBook problem" for free.

[sw1tcher]

These new ones look really cool. Though, while I love the iBooks to death, I don't think I'm gonna buy one. There are 2 things that piss me off about them.

1. They're updated so often it's like flavor of the month to me. I have a G3 800 iBook from last summer and there's already been how many revisions since then?? They're not future-proof enough for me.

Updated often? They're updated ~ every 6-8 months. That's not often. Would you prefer that they update them every 1-2 years instead so that your PowerBook would retain its value better? Because that's just ridiculous. You can't stop progress. Things are always going to get better.

[Yvan256]

For all those who brought the last line of iBook G4 including myself i find that the current update of the Apple iBook G4 is a Mere Ripple in Ocean.

I hope you're aware that only core-compliant computer users will see that ripple? :D

[Maxx Power]

2. They scratch right out of the box. They look great, but use 'em for a month and they look like hell. I suppose your mileage may differ, but I'm not about to keep mine in some super-protective cocoon all the time when I'm not using it, I want to use it, and REALLY use it. My TiBook took a pounding, and my 12" PB is still ticking along.

If they ever make them with scratch-proof plastic (like the clam-shell ones) then I'll reconsider.

...and don't even get me started on the logic board fiasco. I've only had mine replaced once, but I really feel for the people who've had theirs die 3 or even 4 times.

I didn't know about the scratchmatic feature of these iBooks. Now that compounds the problem further, i'm definitely going to recommend everyone i know NOT to buy one of those i$Books.

[aswitcher]

I hope you're aware that only core-compliant computer users will see that ripple? :D

:p Now that was funny ;)

[CaptainCaveMann]

Its not give or take, its just take. Apple takes the profits, and they take away the 167 full fledged bus. My Centrino machine have a 400 Mhz FSB, running at 1.6 Ghz, it weighs less than 6 pounds and has mostly metallic casings. Fan never turns on unless i run benchmarks or play games. And if you refer to Cinebench benchmarks, a universal cross platform benchmark, you'll see the aging G4 architecture waning. The G4 was competitive with the PIII, not with any of the newer chips in either camp, G4's destiny is perish or become a strictly embedded chip, or be revamped and spun the silicon a few more times. The only good part of the G4 is the vector unit, which we all praise, but that's the unit that requires the most FSB bandwidth, at 133 Mhz, the G4 have troubles filling the VMX unit with instructions, and compete with that is the regular floating point which is concurrent with VMX and the integer pipelines, you have a big choke point.
Get the G4 out of the door, or get the G4's updated, either way, the current iteration of G4's are competitive with yesterday's machines.So are you saying i should buy a 1.8 pentium m based hp laptop instead of a g4 ibook?? haha

[Diatribe]

You should submit this post as "big news" in late March/early April. Chances are good you're going to hit the jackpot with your prediction :) As for the SD option on the 12", it depends on the fate of the 12" PB. Should Apple change the form-factor of the low-end PB or (unlikely) drop it altogether), Apple might offer a SD option.

Hehe, I could go down in history as the second oracle ;) :D

[RobertV]

I'm planning to make the switch with my next portable computer purchase. Since I don't know much about Mac (or computers in general), could anyone please give me a hint?

I teach and do research in economics at a university, here in Spain. Professionally, I need a computer for writing papers (using LaTex, since Scientific WorkPlace won't run on a Mac), running some mathematical applications (like Ox, Gauss or Matlab), preparing presentations for classes and conferences. I would like to have an easy-to-carry computer with reasonable battery life.

Since I am planning the switch, I also would like to be able to play some of my favorite games on my new computer (titles like Age of Empires II, CivIII, Age of Mythology) even if I have to purchase the Mac copy.

I would very much appreciate your help.
Greetings from Pamplona (where the bulls run…)

[AmigoMac]

I'm planning to make the switch with my next portable computer purchase. Since I don't know much about Mac (or computers in general), could anyone please give me a hint?

I teach and do research in economics at a university, here in Spain. Professionally, I need a computer for writing papers (using LaTex, since Scientific WorkPlace won't run on a Mac), running some mathematical applications (like Ox, Gauss or Matlab), preparing presentations for classes and conferences. I would like to have an easy-to-carry computer with reasonable battery life.

Since I am planning the switch, I also would like to be able to play some of my favorite games on my new computer (titles like Age of Empires II, CivIII, Age of Mythology) even if I have to purchase the Mac copy.

I would very much appreciate your help.
Greetings from Pamplona (where the bulls run…)

If that's the main thing you will do, get the 12", its a nice baby, I have it and have never regret about getting it, if you ever need screen spanning , get the hack, it won't affect the warranty ... it's more than portable... just increase the hard disk and maybe the internal BT module, wireless mouse/KB are pretty nice to have when typing a lot...

[Diatribe]

If that's the main thing you will do, get the 12", its a nice baby, I have it and have never regret about getting it, if you ever need screen spanning , get the hack, it won't affect the warranty ... it's more than portable... just increase the hard disk and maybe the internal BT module, wireless mouse/KB are pretty nice to have when typing a lot...

What are you talking about? The 12" PB does spanning without the hack, only the iBook needs it.

[5300cs]

Updated often? They're updated ~ every 6-8 months. That's not often. Would you prefer that they update them every 1-2 years instead so that your PowerBook would retain its value better? Because that's just ridiculous. You can't stop progress. Things are always going to get better.

Then I ain't gonna buy one; every 6-8 months is too often for my liking. If YOU want to, hey, more power to ya.

[duklaprague]

But remember that this speed bump/price drop isn't intended to intice someone who just bought an iBook last week into buying a newer one. It's to get someone who's got an 18-24 month old ibook to upgrade. Very few people (much less than 1%) upgrade with "every" update. And those that do, are far more likely in the high-end cutting edge market than the marketed iBook customer.

agree entirely. i don't see how it can be negative.

its a better specced machine, and it costs less money. whats not to like? you can't reasonably expect every hardware update to be big enough to warrant a new purchase.

our G4 PB bought this year i would expect to last at least 5 years. biut whatever replaces it in 5 years should be a pretty impressive bit of kit!

Iain :D

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I'm planning to make the switch with my next portable computer purchase. Since I don't know much about Mac (or computers in general), could anyone please give me a hint?

I teach and do research in economics at a university, here in Spain. Professionally, I need a computer for writing papers (using LaTex, since Scientific WorkPlace won't run on a Mac), running some mathematical applications (like Ox, Gauss or Matlab), preparing presentations for classes and conferences. I would like to have an easy-to-carry computer with reasonable battery life.

Since I am planning the switch, I also would like to be able to play some of my favorite games on my new computer (titles like Age of Empires II, CivIII, Age of Mythology) even if I have to purchase the Mac copy.

I would very much appreciate your help.
Greetings from Pamplona (where the bulls run…)

Why not the 12" iBook...? The screen resolution on the 14" is the same as on the 12". The 12" is much more portable, and the screen is more than big enough...

I use it for most of the things you're talking about. I write my masters thesis in Lyx (http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/LyX/Mac) (don't know about Matlab, though) and play some games, mostly CM4, which uses alot of processor, but still runs fairly OK on my 12" iBook G4 800MHz...

You can make presentations in Keynote or even <shrugging>Powerpoint</shrugging>.

And the battery life on the 12" iBook is FANTASTIC. My ran for over 6 1/2 hours when new, now it's a year old (and has been in use every day) and still gives me 5 hours. (If I turn down screen brightness, don't use the speakers and with as little Airport use as possible, but still...).

[AmigoMac]

Ohh, excuse me, I didn't read the "Powerbook" part ... sorry..

As the iBooks just came out, i thought we were just talking about them... I would go with an iBook, right now the PB it's not the best and an update is to be seen in January/February ... but, What do I know? the same as the next poster... iBook 12" for those tasks is more than fine... but a 14" with SD, sounds better.

again, I didn't note you wrote powerbook...

[Diatribe]

Ohh, excuse me, I didn't read the "Powerbook" part ... sorry..

As the iBooks just came out, i thought we were just talking about them... I would go with an iBook, right now the PB it's not the best and an update is to be seen in January/February ... but, What do I know? the same as the next poster... iBook 12" for those tasks is more than fine... but a 14" with SD, sounds better.

again, I didn't note you wrote powerbook...

Somebody feeling a little bit defensive today? :D Didn't mean to "offend" you, I was just trying to clearify that the PB doesn't need it. :)

I do agree with you that the 12" PB is somewhat a bad deal now over the 12" iBook but over the 14" iBook with SD it's only $250 more for the PB and you get a whole lot of features more.

If you need the SD get the 12" PB if you don't get the 12" iBook. Simple as that.

[AmigoMac]

Yeah, I'm pretty sensitive today... have a lot of things in my head, nevermind, we can manage that, Verdad? ;)

For basic typing needs, I don't see the big point of getting the PB... those *more* features will be useless unless you need a second LCD.. maybe you're right maybe I am but an iBook will be a good deal right now

[Mord]

"That’s because Apple engineers equipped the new iBook G4 with a powerful, professional-level graphics processor. Using an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB of DDR SDRAM and AGP 4X, the iBook G4 delivers blistering 2D, 3D and multimedia graphics performance for today’s most demanding games and applications."

Since when is a 32MB video card "professional-level"?

What is Apple doing with their latest machines and graphic card offerings?! (iMac G5 and this ibooks)

I wish Apple would at least push the 14 incher to 64MB....we're gonna get laughed at!


it's still years ahead of the intel integrated extreme graphics crap that most wintel notebooks have