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gkarris
Jun 15, 2010, 08:46 PM
Wow, that new Mini is awesome - think they'll use the case for the Server version as the new AppleTV?

Just a different board (A4 processor) and different outputs in the back (to match the current AppleTV)?

http://storeimages.apple.com/1706/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/macmini/img/product-front-server.jpg



cleric
Jun 15, 2010, 09:24 PM
Wow, that new Mini is awesome - think they'll use the case for the Server version as the new AppleTV?

Just a different board (A4 processor) and different outputs in the back (to match the current AppleTV)?

http://storeimages.apple.com/1706/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/macmini/img/product-front-server.jpg
I doubt it would get an a4, the obvious choice would be one of the sigma chipsets you already see in many of these devices like the wdtv.

PlaceofDis
Jun 15, 2010, 09:27 PM
I doubt it would get an a4, the obvious choice would be one of the sigma chipsets you already see in many of these devices like the wdtv.

it would make perfect sense. especially since I have an inkling that the apple tv might eventually end up as another iOS device.

davidwarren
Jun 15, 2010, 11:59 PM
I think that, even as small as this case is, it would be way too large for just an a4 chip inside. That is to say if the no hard drive rumors play out. I hope a new atv comes out on iOS soon! That would be incredible.

roidy
Jun 16, 2010, 07:13 AM
I doubt it would get an a4, the obvious choice would be one of the sigma chipsets you already see in many of these devices like the wdtv.

I doubt they would use a sigma chip. Yes the sigma chips are great at video decoding because thats what their designed to do but for actual cpu processing like running the GUI there just not that powerful. You've only gotta look at the WDTV to see that while it decodes video great the frontend GUI is very slow and basic so imagine trying to run the ATV software on that. Also why would Apple want to develop for a new CPU architecture, meaning more time and money, when they already have a good code base from the Intel, PowerPC and A4 chips.

reebzor
Jun 16, 2010, 07:49 AM
Why would an iOS ATV be a good idea? iOS is designed to be used with a multitouch interface, the ATV is designed to be used with a remote control. It doesn't seem like the two would play together that well.

northy124
Jun 16, 2010, 09:26 AM
it would make perfect sense. especially since I have an inkling that the apple tv might eventually end up as another iOS device.
I also think that the TV will become iOS as well, why else would they change the OS name? :) Also I'd peg the next chip to come on it to be an A4 variant but slightly more powerful (or is it powerful enough as is?).

(I know the iPad and iPod Touch aren't iPhone's but I still think there is another reason :))

anim8or
Jun 16, 2010, 09:33 AM
I think the appletv is dead.

What should happen is that apple release the new appletv software as a Mac OS X App or add-on to the OS X... so one can buy the new Mac Mini and simply use it as a media server.

Either this or update front row to an AppleTV standard interface.

The new mini alone should suffice as a media server the only let down is the interface IMHO.

Tilpots
Jun 16, 2010, 09:37 AM
What should happen is that apple release the new appletv software as a Mac OS X App or add-on to the OS X... so one can buy the new Mac Mini and simply use it as a media server.



I'm really starting to believe the AppleTV's future lies in the software, the hardware just isn't necessary.

anim8or
Jun 16, 2010, 09:40 AM
It makes sense to be entirely software based... unless the want another iToy!

roidy
Jun 16, 2010, 10:09 AM
It makes sense to be entirely software based... unless the want another iToy!

Without hardware any software is useless..... And I'm certainly not paying Mac Mini prices just to play video. The ATV is at just the right price point to be justified as a media playback device. But if Apple go a software only route and force people to supply there own Mac to use it on then it's gonna end up out of most peoples price range.

nkgmd
Jun 16, 2010, 12:45 PM
Maybe the new apple TV will have a camera and be one of the 10s of millions of face time devices they are planning to ship?

gkarris
Jun 16, 2010, 01:42 PM
Maybe the new apple TV will have a camera and be one of the 10s of millions of face time devices they are planning to ship?

No, just extra USB ports for a camera, external drives (BR and HD), and game controllers... ;)

ceraz
Jun 16, 2010, 01:49 PM
I'm really starting to believe the AppleTV's future lies in the software, the hardware just isn't necessary.

Maybe a software update to access more on-line paying content but for me a hardware upgrade for proper 1080p support is more than necessary.

Just like Mac mini and Mac mini server, why not propose a two ATV versions: one like it is today and a second model with bluray drive and PVR features

VTMac
Jun 16, 2010, 02:06 PM
Maybe a software update to access more on-line paying content but for me a hardware upgrade for proper 1080p support is more than necessary.

Just like Mac mini and Mac mini server, why not propose a two ATV versions: one like it is today and a second model with bluray drive and PVR features

I don't get why people think ATV will ever get a Blu Ray. There is 0.0 business incentive for Apple to do so. If you could legally rip Blu Ray from within iTunes, then maybe, as it would be a bridge to their digital iTunes movie catalog, just as ripping CDs was years ago. But since that is not the case, I think there will never be a Blu Ray ATV option.

ceraz
Jun 16, 2010, 02:40 PM
I don't get why people think ATV will ever get a Blu Ray. There is 0.0 business incentive for Apple to do so. If you could legally rip Blu Ray from within iTunes, then maybe, as it would be a bridge to their digital iTunes movie catalog, just as ripping CDs was years ago. But since that is not the case, I think there will never be a Blu Ray ATV option.

Huh? it's not about ripping 20Gb of bluray, it's about playing high-def through a single media hub on a high-def screen.

Just look at all those networked bluray players offering similar features to ATV with USB and SD card slots. If it wasn't for the ATV GUI and iTunes library sync' I would have already replaced one of my best buys (my ATV).

Unfortunately, bluray does not seem to be on Apple's whiteboard. Irrespective of Apple's business case ... i'm a consumer with clear needs.

jwalker99
Jun 16, 2010, 02:54 PM
I don't get why people think ATV will ever get a Blu Ray. There is 0.0 business incentive for Apple to do so.

I'm not sure there is 0.0 business incentive on apple's part, especially if including them in macs and/or a new ATV increases the overall demand for their products (can't speak for anyone else, but it would definitely increase my likelihood of buying either a new Mini or preferably a blu-ray equipped ATV).

Just like Mac mini and Mac mini server, why not propose a two ATV versions: one like it is today and a second model with bluray drive and PVR features

I think this makes a ton of sense. I'd be happy with an iOS based ATV that simply streams from itunes/internet with iphone like apps for netflix, pandora, etc. I'm hoping that's what the $99 rumored device will be like. Throw in a blu-ray drive for a couple hundred more and you'd have a great entertainment system at a very reasonable price point.

dynaflash
Jun 16, 2010, 03:07 PM
I'm really starting to believe the AppleTV's future lies in the software, the hardware just isn't necessary.
huh? apple has always had whoop ass software (depending on your thoughts but generally true) but part of what makes it "just work" is that they also control the hardware it runs on. I highly doubt a "appletv os" only to work on whatever hardware you choose. But, I have been wrong before ....

Tilpots
Jun 16, 2010, 03:13 PM
huh? apple has always had whoop ass software (depending on your thoughts but generally true) but part of what makes it "just work" is that they also control the hardware it runs on. I highly doubt a "appletv os" only to work on whatever hardware you choose. But, I have been wrong before ....

What I'm suggesting is AppleTV's software be used in place of or combined with Front Row. If you bake this software into Mac OSX and ship it with all Mac products, then the need for the AppleTV hardware diminishes greatly, which by all accounts isn't very "great" to begin with. Hope that explains it better. I'm not suggesting Apple stop making Macs in general...

roidy
Jun 16, 2010, 03:41 PM
What I'm suggesting is AppleTV's software be used in place of or combined with Front Row. If you bake this software into Mac OSX and ship it with all Mac products, then the need for the AppleTV hardware diminishes greatly, which by all accounts isn't very "great" to begin with. Hope that explains it better. I'm not suggesting Apple stop making Macs in general...

That OK if you already have a Mac or can afford a to buy a Mac just to put under your TV, personally I don't want to pay Mac prices just to play my iTunes media on my TV.

Tilpots
Jun 16, 2010, 03:55 PM
That OK if you already have a Mac or can afford a to buy a Mac just to put under your TV, personally I don't want to pay Mac prices just to play my iTunes media on my TV.

No, not just for Macs under the TV. Some DLNA Certified TV's can be networked these days and are capable of playing files from attached devices. It's not widespread right now and it'd probably cost more to get a capable TV than a Mini, but this is the direction the industry seems to be heading. If/when Macs can wirelessly connect directly to TV's, which shouldn't be too long, than the AppleTV hardware becomes obsolete anyway.

Your AppleTV is probably the best piece of hardware to do the job you need today, but tomorrow's tech will handle the job quite differently. It'd be smart for Apple to give more importance to the software side simply because it's importance won't diminish as the hardware does.

roidy
Jun 16, 2010, 04:15 PM
Not sure what you mean with DLNA TV's, yes they'll play video files but Apple are never gonna allow them to play their iTunes DRM'd content on 3rd party TV hardware.

Veinticinco
Jun 16, 2010, 05:06 PM
New Apple TV, if it is in the pipeline, will almost certainly be along these lines...

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/28/apple-reportedly-prepping-revamped-apple-tv-iphone-os-cloud-based-storage-99-price-point/

i.e. Based on the iPhone 4 not the Mac Mini

"The new architecture of the device will be based directly on the iPhone 4, meaning it will get the same internals, down to that A4 CPU and a limited amount of flash storage -- 16GB to be exact -- though it will be capable of full 1080p HD (!). The device is said to be quite small with a scarce amount of ports (only the power socket and video out), and has been described to some as "an iPhone without a screen." Are you ready for the real shocker? According to our sources, the price-point for the device will be $99."

rhett7660
Jun 16, 2010, 05:24 PM
I think the appletv is dead.

What should happen is that apple release the new appletv software as a Mac OS X App or add-on to the OS X... so one can buy the new Mac Mini and simply use it as a media server.

Either this or update front row to an AppleTV standard interface.

The new mini alone should suffice as a media server the only let down is the interface IMHO.

This.. I would love to see something like this!

Tilpots
Jun 16, 2010, 07:07 PM
Not sure what you mean with DLNA TV's, yes they'll play video files but Apple are never gonna allow them to play their iTunes DRM'd content on 3rd party TV hardware.

Why would they not? You already can watch any iTunes movie on a TV if it's played thru iTunes.

CFreymarc
Jun 16, 2010, 09:20 PM
Wow, that new Mini is awesome - think they'll use the case for the Server version as the new AppleTV?

Just a different board (A4 processor) and different outputs in the back (to match the current AppleTV)?

http://storeimages.apple.com/1706/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/macmini/img/product-front-server.jpg

Easily! Two of the big clues are the HDMI port and the SD Card slot in the back. I'm sure a bunch of wankers are screaming "Why is the SD Card slot in the back?" Well, I will tell you boys and girls.

The SD card slot is not intended for regular use. It is intended to hold DRM keys; HUGE DRM keys that the nVidia chip will easily decrypt in real time. I would not be surprised that a repackaged version of this has an Ethernet link to a Cable television provider CPE box and a kick ass WiFi remote. This new Mac Mini could replace set top cable TV boxes looking at the height.

Rash statement? Perhaps but I never cashed in playing it safe.

Scott6666
Jun 16, 2010, 10:01 PM
The big problem with the ATV is dead in favor of the mini argument is the price. The mini is twice the price of what people will pay to fill their living rooms.

Take leftover iPhone 3G's, turn off the 3G, add memory to 64GB, throw the dock in with an HDMI out, and presto, ATV 2. :D Kidding (mostly).

aughsum
Jun 16, 2010, 10:55 PM
i want the rumored iphone sized, A4 based, no onboard storage ATV, preferably powered off of usb from the tv.. I just want to stick the thing to the tv, I dont want to have to deal with a bunch of wires.

gkarris
Jun 17, 2010, 04:52 PM
i want the rumored iphone sized, A4 based, no onboard storage ATV, preferably powered off of usb from the tv.. I just want to stick the thing to the tv, I dont want to have to deal with a bunch of wires.

My TV doesn't have USB - well, I guess I can get an adapter - but that's too much a hassle.

The AppleTV with the built in adapter was very convenient.

Arran
Jun 18, 2010, 07:41 PM
Take leftover iPhone 3G's, turn off the 3G, add memory to 64GB, throw the dock in with an HDMI out, and presto, ATV 2. :D Kidding (mostly).

Not so crazy. At least they wouldn't overheat and die. One of mine just succumbed to heat exhaustion. I'm now in that awkward position of "do I replace now, or do I wait?"

So far, I've resisted creating a thread about it :)

gkarris
Jun 18, 2010, 10:17 PM
Not so crazy. At least they wouldn't overheat and die. One of mine just succumbed to heat exhaustion. I'm now in that awkward position of "do I replace now, or do I wait?"

So far, I've resisted creating a thread about it :)

Mine too - it "burned out". Decided to wait it out (using an old Thinkpad X series with a dock for the time being... ;) )

Saw the new Mini today in the store - you'd swear it's an AppleTV if it weren't for the disc slot or the all Aluminum enclosure. About the same form factor otherwise.

JBaughb
Jun 20, 2010, 02:27 PM
I'm feeling the need to chime in with my two cents.

I don't feel it makes any sense for Apple to replace the AppleTV with a software package to be installed on a Mac Mini.
First, the cost of entry for the media center would be way to high compared to other devices on the market.
Second, offering the iOS as a software package for osx would allow it to be installed on desktop macs and macbooks which would take sales away from the iPad. Just think what would happen if you could get iWork for $5 or $10 (I don't know what the iPad price is) instead of paying for a retail copy.
These two operating systems will remain on different hardware for quite a while, and yes, I believe that the future of AppleTV lies with a version of iOS.

Also, can't we all agree that Apple has no incentive to include BluRay or PVR functionality. This not only doesn't make sense considering their business model of digital distribution, but it would actually be a detriment to their sales and rental of digital content.

gkarris
Jun 22, 2010, 10:35 AM
^^^ Yes, it's kinda like when the iPhone came out. People didn't want to have to buy an entire phone and service if they wanted to just listen to music, watch videos, and have PDA functions - hence the Touch...

Why buy an entire Mini (at the new wonderful price of $699) if all you want to do is to play media from your couch?

Tilpots
Jun 22, 2010, 10:42 AM
Also, can't we all agree that Apple has no incentive to include BluRay or PVR functionality. This not only doesn't make sense considering their business model of digital distribution, but it would actually be a detriment to their sales and rental of digital content.

No. We can't. Apple's main business is selling hardware, not pimping other people's content. A Blu-Ray Drive and a DVR capable Mac device would sell well. All this money would go to Apple, not Universal, or Sony or whomever. It would also expose more people to the iTMS so their sales in this arena would probably increase also. So again, you don't understand the issue and I do not agree with you or others who use this poor logic.

gkarris
Jul 2, 2010, 11:49 PM
The front page news is interesting.

So maybe an iPod Touch screen-less = AppleTV?

Maybe use the same board in the Mini Server case... ;)

Stoowa
Jul 3, 2010, 08:19 AM
The good thing about using a mac mini for a media hub is its ability to use it for other things in ur living room as well. using itap app on your iphone gives you web browsing, email etc. Also, connecting eye tv gives you a pvr plus dvd player. use time machine plus eternal drive for backup.
I currently have my atv "hidden" with wall mounted tv with hdmi cable through the wall etc so use iremote app but i'm seriously thinking about the mac mini route.
The proposed IOS iphone based version of ATV maybe quite limiting, but cheap I suppose.

kiranmk2
Jul 3, 2010, 01:53 PM
The front page news is interesting.

So maybe an iPod Touch screen-less = AppleTV?

Maybe use the same board in the Mini Server case... ;)

Possibly the ATV line changes to Time-Capsule as server/Airport Express-esque device as client - but maybe he next TC will also use the Mini server unibody enclosure (with a twist-off bottom allowing a hard drive change?)

gkarris
Jul 3, 2010, 10:18 PM
Possibly the ATV line changes to Time-Capsule as server/Airport Express-esque device as client - but maybe he next TC will also use the Mini server unibody enclosure (with a twist-off bottom allowing a hard drive change?)

Definitely not the Airport Express - still uses a power adapter which Apple seems to by going away from. More along the lines of the Time Capsule.

Probably a new Unibody form factor smaller to house the new Airport Extreme, Time-Capsule, and AppleTV - just a scaled-down version of the Mini Server.

kiranmk2
Jul 4, 2010, 06:55 AM
It's not so much that an Apple-Express type ATV client would have a power adaptor, it's that it would be the power adaptor and could simply be hidden out of sight (hence the bluetooth/wibree remote). If it's true the the next ATV only has a small amount of flash, then it wouldn't need to be anywhere near the size of a time capsule.

jlc1978
Jul 4, 2010, 07:36 AM
No. We can't. Apple's main business is selling hardware, not pimping other people's content. A Blu-Ray Drive and a DVR capable Mac device would sell well. All this money would go to Apple, not Universal, or Sony or whomever. It would also expose more people to the iTMS so their sales in this arena would probably increase also. So again, you don't understand the issue and I do not agree with you or others who use this poor logic.

I think there are several reasons Apple will not offer BluRay:

1. Jobs does not believe it has a future - he has made it pretty clear that he thinks digital distribution will obsolete BluRay and he has no interest in dead end technology.

2. Apple has it's own DRM schema and doesn't want to deal with the whole HDCP mess. HDMI doesn't need to support it, but BluRay disks use it. I doubt Apple wants go through licensing HDCP (and paying Intel for it) to add a technology Jobs views as dead end.

3. Adding BluRay means losing iTunes sales of HD content - in the end, ATV (and much of the other Mac lineup) is just a foot in the door to get the long term revenue stream from iTunes. Open up a second source of content threatens that; why do you think teh current ATV has no DVD drive? Apple wants to change how people think about buying content; one way to do that is to remove teh old way and leave the new way as the only option.

Of these, I think #1 is enough to keep BluRay off Apple products. Jobs has shown repeatedly that when it comes to his vision vs what consumers want today he goes with his vision. Given his string of hits I understand why.

Adding a DVR would mean including DRM to satisfy content providers (whom Apple needs for iTunes) and just confuse and piss off consumers when they can't transfer recorded content to iTunes and beyond. Apple pushes iTunes as the hub for all content; and excluding some would run counter to that. Plus, Jobs probably views OTA and Cable TV as on the way out; with a new streaming model as the future. So why add problems for a dying business model?

The real issue is, in the end, Jobs doesn't care what consumers want; or what incremental sales Apple will get from some feature. He will sell him his vision of the future; and if you don't like it go elsewhere. Of course, he plans yo make his so compelling that anything else will seem second rate.

northy124
Jul 4, 2010, 10:13 AM
1. Jobs does not believe it has a future - he has made it pretty clear that he thinks digital distribution will obsolete BluRay and he has no interest in dead end technology.
Jobs is wrong in this instance, I doubt Blu-ray will go away soon... not until we see similar quality downloads with extras anyway.
2. Apple has it's own DRM schema and doesn't want to deal with the whole HDCP mess. HDMI doesn't need to support it, but BluRay disks use it. I doubt Apple wants go through licensing HDCP (and paying Intel for it) to add a technology Jobs views as dead end.
Apple's computers and Cables are already HDCP ready I think.
3. Adding BluRay means losing iTunes sales of HD content - in the end, ATV (and much of the other Mac lineup) is just a foot in the door to get the long term revenue stream from iTunes. Open up a second source of content threatens that; why do you think teh current ATV has no DVD drive? Apple wants to change how people think about buying content; one way to do that is to remove teh old way and leave the new way as the only option.
Yhup this is true :(
Adding a DVR would mean including DRM to satisfy content providers (whom Apple needs for iTunes) and just confuse and piss off consumers when they can't transfer recorded content to iTunes and beyond. Apple pushes iTunes as the hub for all content; and excluding some would run counter to that. Plus, Jobs probably views OTA and Cable TV as on the way out; with a new streaming model as the future. So why add problems for a dying business model?
A DVR/PVR can be done yourself on the Mini for around 100 (for a cheap option) so it isn't 100% ruled out but then again it isn't in an TV :(

jlc1978
Jul 5, 2010, 07:02 AM
Apple's computers and Cables are already HDCP ready I think.
(


Yup. I was wrong about that.

gkarris
Jul 5, 2010, 09:05 PM
A DVR/PVR can be done yourself on the Mini for around 100 (for a cheap option) so it isn't 100% ruled out but then again it isn't in an TV :(

Apple isn't into "DVR" and you can get 3rd party solutions.

Apple is more into on-demand downloads, and in the future, possibly streaming...