Tiger Early Start Kit - for Developers [Archive]

MacRumors

Oct 19, 2004, 06:04 PM

Apple has announced (http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/tigerkit.html) a Tiger Early Start Kit for developers when signing up for ADC Select Membership.

The $500 program offers benefits of ADC Select Membership (http://developer.apple.com/membership/select.html) as well as pre-release versions of Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger), Xcode 2.0 and a Tiger developer training DVD with sessions for WWDC 2004.

The site still reports that Tiger will be released in the "first half of 2005".

maya

Oct 19, 2004, 06:08 PM

Should it not be for WWDC'05?

And it's kewl I can wait for Tiger. :D

jared_kipe

Oct 19, 2004, 06:09 PM

2005 is a must

klaus

Oct 19, 2004, 06:22 PM

Well, so they are still on schedule, I bet they will release it in may or june, that's about at the 'end' of the first half of 2005. It won't be much sooner i'm afraid

but hey, looking forward to it!

MrMacMan

Oct 19, 2004, 06:26 PM

"Because at Apple, we know you have $500 dollars for a partially buggy prerelease of an OS, right?"

:D ;)

dootbran

Oct 19, 2004, 06:28 PM

I love the stuff Apple offers to developers for less than the cost of Visual Studio :D

This one is really tempting!

PlaceofDis

Oct 19, 2004, 06:31 PM

"Because at Apple, we know you have $500 dollars for a partially buggy prerelease of an OS, right?"

it is "for developers" who would benefit from haveing a prerelease even if it is buggy, plus you join the developer program, you get more than just a preview of Tiger

The Red Wolf

Oct 19, 2004, 06:31 PM

Pushing it through purchasing now. Can't wait to get my hands on it. Good price for what they are offering too.

jeffmc425

Oct 19, 2004, 06:32 PM

"Because at Apple, we know you have $500 dollars for a partially buggy prerelease of an OS, right?"

:D ;)

Oh c'mon. For us developers, this is great. We get to see some of the new APIs in the OS early, and get our projects in order to ship on, or near release date. This is not meant for the casual user, or for the "i gotta have all the latest and greatest" crowd. :cool:

cheese1113

Oct 19, 2004, 06:38 PM

"GM versions of Mac OS X v10.4 and Xcode 2.0 when available"

What Does that mean????

haddiscoe

Oct 19, 2004, 06:43 PM

"GM versions of Mac OS X v10.4 and Xcode 2.0 when available"

What Does that mean????

it means you get GM versions of Mac OSX v10.4 and Xcode 2.0 when they're available.

Blackheart

Oct 19, 2004, 06:47 PM

Dr. Dastardly

Oct 19, 2004, 06:47 PM

This actually makes me think that they will have some sort of release as soon as MWSF '05.

It could happen.

maya

Oct 19, 2004, 06:54 PM

This actually makes me think that they will have some sort of release as soon as MWSF '05.

It could happen.

I am swaying that way too. :)

Pre-release in mid oct. This is good news for all.

cheese1113

Oct 19, 2004, 06:56 PM

it means you get GM versions of Mac OSX v10.4 and Xcode 2.0 when they're available.

What are GM versions?

JGowan

Oct 19, 2004, 06:59 PM

"Because at Apple, we know you have $500 dollars for a partially buggy prerelease of an OS, right?"
:D ;)You say that with a smiley, but it still smacks of TROLL. Please, don't.

Rower_CPU

Oct 19, 2004, 07:01 PM

"GM" stands for "Gold Master" - GM versions of software are what is sold when it is first made available.

In other words, you'll get a retail copy of Tiger once they're done beta testing.

Chaszmyr

Oct 19, 2004, 07:02 PM

I don't see the point. Anyone who was a select developer around WWDC time already has a copy of Tiger.

maya

Oct 19, 2004, 07:07 PM

I don't see the point. Anyone who was a select developer around WWDC time already has a copy of Tiger.

I believe they got a "preview" copy. There must be XYZ amount of build since that was made public.

Anyone know what the latest build is at?

maya

Oct 19, 2004, 07:09 PM

"Because at Apple, we know you have $500 dollars for a partially buggy prerelease of an OS, right?"

:D ;)

First its not a bad deals it rather good if you are a developer. For $500 USD you get some extras and you also get the GM version.

To a developer this price is peanuts. :D

Good show on the OS front Apple. :)

dongmin

Oct 19, 2004, 07:32 PM

Does anyone know if this also applies to the $99 student developer membership? I was looking at getting it but I'm kinda "in the dark" of what the students actually get. I mean, I don't have $500 just sitting around. Does anyone know what's offered throught the student developer membership?

Thanksnope. the student developer account is pretty bare-bones. the biggest benefit is the hardware discount. you get a monthly mailing+CD of the latest developer tools, but no previews of OS X. you have to pony up a lot more for that.

The Red Wolf

Oct 19, 2004, 07:34 PM

I believe they got a "preview" copy. There must be XYZ amount of build since that was made public.

Anyone know what the latest build is at?

The current Tiger build right now is: Mac OS X 10.4 (8A171)

sandsl

Oct 19, 2004, 07:38 PM

Does anyone know if this also applies to the $99 student developer membership? I was looking at getting it but I'm kinda "in the dark" of what the students actually get. I mean, I don't have $500 just sitting around. Does anyone know what's offered throught the student developer membership?

Thanks

Students don't get this package unless they pay $500 like everyone else. Access to Tiger, & related info isn't included with student membership.

aswitcher

Oct 19, 2004, 07:38 PM

So tell me, does this mean some kind soul is going to give us a complete detailed breakdown of what Tiger does over Panther...how everything works and looks. Forgive my ignorance of these things... :o

Blackheart

Oct 19, 2004, 07:46 PM

Students don't get this package unless they pay $500 like everyone else. Access to Tiger, & related info isn't included with student membership.

=( lame...

Rower_CPU

Oct 19, 2004, 07:48 PM

aswitcher

Oct 19, 2004, 07:58 PM

A kind soul named Apple ;)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/

:) Yeah Yeah. But is that all there is?

x86isslow

Oct 19, 2004, 08:08 PM

i think apple has an NDA with its devs so they can't reveal things about tiger to whomever

and it sucks that students don't get previews

Anarchy99

Oct 19, 2004, 08:08 PM

how much is that hardware discount for student developer ?

maya

Oct 19, 2004, 08:22 PM

how much is that hardware discount for student developer ?

If I am not mistaken its 10% off the retail price. :)

maya

Oct 19, 2004, 08:23 PM

The current Tiger build right now is: Mac OS X 10.4 (8A171)

Thank You. :)

eric_n_dfw

Oct 19, 2004, 08:28 PM

Really, this is just an ad for becoming a Select level developer. Their site has a link for existing select and premier developers to get the DVD-ROM when it's available.

(Select membership has always been $500 and Select members always have gotten preview OS X discs)

mkjellman

Oct 19, 2004, 08:34 PM

yea i'm sorry but what is the difference from this and a select membership?

sickracer2015

Oct 19, 2004, 08:58 PM

well I hope this means select members will start getting builds. Im a select member and the only tiger build ive received is the initial dev release from the WWDC. nothing is on the adc site.. if your already an adc member nothing is different here...

ijimk

Oct 19, 2004, 09:11 PM

I speak for all of us when i say Bring us tiger, I hear it's GRRRRRRRREAT! :cool:

Tony the tiger should be on the box :D

swmooretiger

Oct 19, 2004, 10:08 PM

DesertDog

Oct 19, 2004, 10:40 PM

ok, contrary to popular opinion in this thread, you do get OS upgrades with a student dev membership, plus a once in a lifetime 20% hardware discount. I know this because that's how I got panther. I actually ordered a copy at the student price, thinking I wasn't getting the OS for free with the developer membership, and then I ended up getting 2 copies. now, the student dev. version doesn't come in a box, just in a fold up cd holder thing, but hey, it's still the next OS version for only 99 bucks, plus all the other stuff you get. definitely worth it if you're a student.

You get the OS releases, the final GMs, but not the preview builds. The reason they don't give them to the students is due to the actions of some past students. Basically a few people were leaking and brought a black mark against the program.

The student program is still a great deal though. For $99/year you get any of the OS releases, the monthly mailings, a HW discount (roughly 20% depending on what you buy, the $1k ibook is naturally discounted less then a dual 2.5 due to margins), and a chance to go to WWDC on apple. Any one of those items pays for the membership.

bastardx

Oct 19, 2004, 11:28 PM

I love the stuff Apple offers to developers for less than the cost of Visual Studio :D

This one is really tempting!
This is more comparable to an MSDN subscription: http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers , than MS Visual Studio. Compare to 1200 for the cheapest subscription that comes with development tools. Although my cash situation as a student is a bit more limited, than that of a professional. I would think it would be worth it to see what CoreImage can really do, though.

iMeowbot

Oct 19, 2004, 11:37 PM

i think apple has an NDA with its devs so they can't reveal things about tiger to whomever
Yeah, but it screws up their marketing otherwise. If too much prerelease stuff gets public, then works in progress (which are inevitably buggy) can give a bad impression of what the final product will be like. Cool features might not be good enough for final release and not make the cut, and leave people disappointed. Leaks also take the lead time advantage away from those who actually paid to get those prerelease builds. And the cool stuff that makes it to GM loses some of that wow factor in Stevenotes if everyone already knows what to expect :)
and it sucks that students don't get previews
Someone else already mentioned that leaks were a problem with those accounts. I suppose they figure that the higher price for the select and premier accounts will filter out people who aren't willing to take the NDA seriously, but every minor seed still seems to get mention on the rumor sites :rolleyes:

dmarkman

Oct 20, 2004, 01:40 AM

szark

Oct 20, 2004, 03:18 AM

that IS Select membership
+ DVD from WWDC

all that tiger kit offers select/premier member already have
that's just marketing move

Apple has a page here (http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/membership.html) to clear up any confusion for current Select and Premier developers.

swissmann

Oct 20, 2004, 03:25 AM

So how many developers are out there that are going to get this. I have no idea. Is it in the thousands, millions, or a lot less than that?

edesignuk

Oct 20, 2004, 03:27 AM

Now Im gonna have to start checking MTKA for the latest Tiger builds :eek: ;) :D :p

inkswamp

Oct 20, 2004, 03:29 AM

I have to throw my 2-cents in with those saying this indicates an early first-half of 2005 release rather than later. I don't think developer copies would be made available unless everything was basically in place and solid enough to work with and frankly, it looked pretty damn solid when Jobs first did his public demo of it.

Of course, I'm just basically pulling this all out of my arse, but if memory serves, developer releases emerged with previous OS X releases approximately 2-3 months prior to the OS hitting the shelves. Let's assume 3 months... mid-January. That sounds about right.

There's this cutesy aphorism in software development and computer work: under-promise and over-deliver. Basically, keep expectations low and make sure you go beyond that. IMO, Apple is doing that with Tiger's release date. I would be surprised if it wasn't out by mid-January.

sw1tcher

Oct 20, 2004, 04:17 AM

You get the OS releases, the final GMs, but not the preview builds. The reason they don't give them to the students is due to the actions of some past students. Basically a few people were leaking and brought a black mark against the program.

The student program is still a great deal though. For $99/year you get any of the OS releases, the monthly mailings, a HW discount (roughly 20% depending on what you buy, the $1k ibook is naturally discounted less then a dual 2.5 due to margins), and a chance to go to WWDC on apple. Any one of those items pays for the membership.

Thanks for the info. I was about to ask whether student developers got the OS releases as well. That seals it for me. I'm signing up. And then I'll use my student developer discount for the next PowerBook update, whenever that'll be (January please?).

Nermal

Oct 20, 2004, 05:52 AM

Now Im gonna have to start checking MTKA for the latest Tiger builds :eek: ;) :D :p

I was thinking the same thing :D

broken_keyboard

Oct 20, 2004, 06:25 AM

Hmm... I let my ADC membership expire because there were no Tiger seeds, perhaps now time to renew.

JLL

Oct 20, 2004, 07:13 AM

crazedbytheheat

Oct 20, 2004, 07:15 AM

I've heard that Java 1.5 will be available with Tiger. Can anyone confirm that the pre-release has 1.5?

millypede

Oct 20, 2004, 07:23 AM

Well it will be nice to have a constant update on builds from ADC , I have been seeing all these updates, even when I went to Paris Expo, they were on the 'Two Blue Corners' build and I was still stuck on the WDDC DVD Edition with a single update.

will

Oct 20, 2004, 07:58 AM

i think apple has an NDA with its devs so they can't reveal things about tiger to whomever

That is correct. There is an NDA.

millypede

Oct 20, 2004, 08:06 AM

Yeah we cant even talk to other devs about things, now how daft is that :P

virividox

Oct 20, 2004, 08:51 AM

damn this is bad news :(

maybe g5 powerbooks with tiger hehehehe

dmarkman

Oct 20, 2004, 09:04 AM

No, the normal select membership doesn't include a hardware discount the first year.
well, now it does
see http://developer.apple.com/membership/select.html
"ADC Hardware Purchase Program
Select members receive a significant discount on one (1) development system each membership year."

I must say, tiger kit is smart marketing move
I saw many posts that people want to buy that kit
but I doubt that the very some people would subscribe to the select membership
that's like to say
I will by a rose

instead of

I will buy a flower and shrub of any species of the genus Rosa, of
which there are many species, mostly found in the northern
hemisphere

jsw

Oct 20, 2004, 09:58 AM

that IS Select membership
+ DVD from WWDC

all that tiger kit offers select/premier member already have
that's just marketing move

so tiger kit is equal completely to the select membership

hardware discount is depend of hardware
10% - 25%
Those in the US who wish to see the developer discounts can do so by going to the ADC Hardware Purchase Program (http://developer.apple.com/membership/usa.html) page and then clicking on the link the the Store (which changes, so I can't link it here). You can't buy anything, but you can see the deals.

Given that a Select membership lets you get a dual-2.5 for US$2399 (Select memberships didn't used to let you get a discount, barring special offers, until the second year), anyone buying a dual-2.5 (or any other package with a discount of $500 or more, or ~$370 if you add in the fact that you'll get Tiger for free when released) would be well advised to consider a Select membership....

ssamani

Oct 20, 2004, 11:04 AM

I believe they got a "preview" copy. There must be XYZ amount of build since that was made public.

Anyone know what the latest build is at?

Apple Developer Connection (ADC) "Select" members get access to download the intermediate releases of Tiger. There are also sometimes OS developer releases on CD-ROM included with the "Select" mailing and you normally get the GM (Gold Master) on CD-ROM, though sometimes a month or two after the official release, though it is available as a Disk Image to download from ADC.

This is quite frankly not really a special offer, rather advertising what Select membership provides. Normally when you renew Select membership for a second year you start getting a 20% hardware discount for 1 system (iMac, laptop or PM+monitor). Last year's promo was much better as you got the hardware discount during the first year; you didn't have to wait a year to renew before you got it. Add in the bonus hardware discount that Select members got given half way through the year and I'm looking at easily recovering the $500 I paid last year. Add the fact that I'll buy the system at UK prices -20% and the FX rate last year to USD was very nice, it will work out quite nicely for me.

But you're looking at a $1,000 outlay to get a 20% discount in 2006 at the moment, so not so good!

[Edit: looks like you get the hardware discount in the first year now... ]

Sanjay

millypede

Oct 20, 2004, 12:32 PM

Now Im gonna have to start checking MTKA for the latest Tiger builds :eek: ;) :D :p

MKTA?? Whats that all about?

steveh

Oct 20, 2004, 01:14 PM

"Because at Apple, we know you have $500 dollars for a partially buggy prerelease of an OS, right?"

Assuming you don't want to wait until after Tiger is released to the public t begin writing your applications to take advantage of any new features, your argument has merit.

A lot of serious developers wouldn't agree with you.

sjk

Oct 20, 2004, 01:16 PM

Add in the bonus hardware discount that Select members got given half way through the year ...Yep. Now, what to do with an unused hw purchase asset that expires in a month... looks like it can only be transferred to employees/contractors of the original ADC member.

jsw

Oct 20, 2004, 02:07 PM

Apple Developer Connection (ADC) "Select" members get access to download the intermediate releases of Tiger. Where? I just became a Select member a few weeks ago, and I've gotten Tiger disks as part of my first monthly shipment, but all I see for online download is the documentation....

AppleMatt

Oct 20, 2004, 02:13 PM

The current Tiger build right now is: Mac OS X 10.4 (8A171)

8A28 has been reported on this week.

AppleMatt

wdlove

Oct 20, 2004, 02:14 PM

Yeah we cant even talk to other devs about things, now how daft is that :P

That doesn't make sense. Common sense would say that it would help Tiger if developers talked to each other.

millypede

Oct 20, 2004, 02:31 PM

I know its barmy, who do you get to test your software, who do you bounce ideas off etc. I speak to some other devs and they get stuck and they dont know how to solve a problem and they have no one to ask, it is daft but hey whats new.

MrMacMan

Oct 20, 2004, 06:15 PM

Oh c'mon. For us developers, this is great. We get to see some of the new APIs in the OS early, and get our projects in order to ship on, or near release date. This is not meant for the casual user, or for the "i gotta have all the latest and greatest" crowd. :cool:

it is "for developers" who would benefit from haveing a prerelease even if it is buggy, plus you join the developer program, you get more than just a preview of Tiger

First its not a bad deals it rather good if you are a developer. For $500 USD you get some extras and you also get the GM version.

To a developer this price is peanuts. :D

Good show on the OS front Apple. :)

Assuming you don't want to wait until after Tiger is released to the public t begin writing your applications to take advantage of any new features, your argument has merit.

A lot of serious developers wouldn't agree with you.

People who went to WWDC got it.

Devolpers should get it, but Apple has already given the latest Copy too all the companies who need to be ahead.

You think Adobe, and Microsoft don't get copies of the new releases minutes after they come out of devolpment?

Yeah they do.

And microsoft has the same system, if your a devolper you can get a copy of the newest version of Longhorn, they have been doing it for god knows how long.

As someone who have worked with a few of these mysterious 'developers' (please, its sarcasm, duh) getting your application to work in a new Mac Os, isn't very hard, and fine turning your app for each release is just dumb until the GM anyway, things change internally. API's sometimes get scraped and what may work for one version may not the next, after you have coded it for the last one for 5 hours.

The devolper program is great, no doubt you get tools to use other people dream of using. And you get the inside track, but if anyone signed up for the devolper program just to get a buggy OS, they need to be smacked right in the face.

You say that with a smiley, but it still smacks of TROLL. Please, don't.
You gotta be kidding me. I'm a troll?

Don't make Kitty Scared.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/MrMacMan/kitty.jpg

--MrMacMan

sjk

Oct 20, 2004, 09:44 PM

Where? I just became a Select member a few weeks ago, and I've gotten Tiger disks as part of my first monthly shipment, but all I see for online download is the documentation....Apple eases Mac OS X seed update process (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=704) claims:

Later this month, the company is expected to begin seeding newer builds of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger through the ADC.

Maybe on October 26th, among other things. Also happens to be the target shipping date for my iMac G5. :)

Motha-Canuker

Oct 21, 2004, 07:46 AM

Warlock7

Oct 21, 2004, 09:54 AM

"Because at Apple, we know you have $500 dollars for a partially buggy prerelease of an OS, right?"

:D ;)

You get a lot more than just the Developers Release of the latest software when you have an ADC subscription. You also get significant price breaks for hardware.

This is not a "buggy prerelease" for the public, it is a developers release to assist them with their development of their products. This should not even be a news story as it doesn't apply to non-developers and it makes it so that the underinformed can make ignorant remarks about it and Apple.

Besides this is for developers that are selling their products and want them to be ready for release at the time that Panther is released to the public.

This is also the way that they have done it for some time now. I wonder who these "developers" that you know are.

I'm sure that there are some companies that Apple has relationships with that do, most likely, have early access to their releases of the OS, they probably have details worked into their contracts to cover this sort of thing. But, to assume that MS has access would imply that their products, like VPC, would work with the OS and the hardware when they release it, which is doesn't. The same situation held true with Symantec. They wouldn't release updates to products like NUM for nearly a year after the latest OS releases came from Apple. You seem to have made too many assumptions about things that you clearly do not understand like you think you do.

jsw

Oct 21, 2004, 10:24 AM

didnt read the whole thread, dont get mad if its been asked.

does the new kit include the new ichat av and video/audio functionalities? ie. 4way vid...10 way aud?

Does it run smoother then WWDC version?

any info?I think the best way to answer this without violating any non-disclosure rules would be to say that it is quite certain that those with ADC Select and Premium memberships (and, as we all know by now, the Tiger Kit is just ADC Select plus a nifty cardboard box and DVD) will have access to the new iChat features well before the general public.

The Red Wolf

Oct 21, 2004, 11:45 AM

8A28 has been reported on this week.

AppleMatt

Very good, but is it available for download? I haven't seen anything that can go live yet.

Motha-Canuker

Oct 21, 2004, 01:34 PM

stupid question

whats NDA? and why cant yall answer my questions without breaking it? is it like a contract or something you sign saying you cant talk about it?

AidenShaw

Oct 21, 2004, 01:36 PM

stupid question

What's NDA? And why can't y'all answer my questions without breaking it? Is it like a contract or something you sign saying you can't talk about it?

NDA = "Non-Disclosure Agreement"

MrMacMan

Oct 21, 2004, 11:17 PM

You get a lot more than just the Developers Release of the latest software when you have an ADC subscription. You also get significant price breaks for hardware.

This is not a "buggy prerelease" for the public, it is a developers release to assist them with their development of their products. This should not even be a news story as it doesn't apply to non-developers and it makes it so that the underinformed can make ignorant remarks about it and Apple.

Besides this is for developers that are selling their products and want them to be ready for release at the time that Panther is released to the public.

Yeah of coarse I answered all of these points 3 hours before you posted this message.

I understand devolpers want to make sure their product works with the new release, I'm just saying if Apple *didn't* do this it would be quite stupid. Microsoft does it, and apple makes sure that major companies have the OS for their major products.

This is also the way that they have done it for some time now. I wonder who these "developers" that you know are.

I'm sure that there are some companies that Apple has relationships with that do, most likely, have early access to their releases of the OS, they probably have details worked into their contracts to cover this sort of thing. But, to assume that MS has access would imply that their products, like VPC, would work with the OS and the hardware when they release it, which is doesn't. The same situation held true with Symantec. They wouldn't release updates to products like NUM for nearly a year after the latest OS releases came from Apple. You seem to have made too many assumptions about things that you clearly do not understand like you think you do.

Microsoft had behind the scenes major problems they needed to hammer out for VPC, really big problems and apple was working with them to solve the problems, addressing two of them in actual revisions of the OS. :eek:

Sysmantec can bite me, There is almost no reasom for their crappy software.

Antivirus = useless
Norton = Easts, burns and wrecks hard drive
Firewall = Bloated and CPU intenseive firewall? what gives?

Warlock7

Oct 22, 2004, 01:37 AM

Yeah of coarse I answered all of these points 3 hours before you posted this message.
Not adequately, sorry. Mysterious phantom developer friends don't answer anything. :rolleyes:

...addressing two of them in actual revisions of the OS.
You'll have to support this claim while you're at it as it's the kind of thing that seems to come from those same mysterious phantom developer friends. :rolleyes: I've never ran across anything that supports this particular claim as you've stated it. There was the wait for the release of XP SP2 before launch, but that has nothing to do with the Apple OS. There's also the delays that were supposedly due to the G5 architecture changes. Nothing about Apple making two OS changes to support VPC though. This is also a very questionable interpretation as the OS system requirement for VPC 7 is 10.2.8 and up...

As for your claims about Symantec, they were for quite some time, a fantastic developer for the Macintosh. Since the release of OS X, their quality has dropped off considerably and I do somewhat agree with you about the NUM situation. As for NAV, Virex seems to do a much better job, but both detect all sorts of things that get into your system. Java based trojans, VB based trojans as well as all Windows based viruses and worms. These don't affect the current Apple OS, but it's better to not inadvertently cause damage to others simply because of an apparently arrogant attitude.