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skunk
Oct 19, 2004, 08:50 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/20/nirq20.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/10/20/ixportaltop.html
Ministers accused of misleading Parliament on Iraq

By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent and George Jones, Political Editor
(Filed: 20/10/2004)

Ministers were accused last night of misleading Parliament over the redeployment of British troops in Iraq to an American-controlled area. A decision to move the soldiers was made more than a week ago, defence sources said.

"It was decided and virtually under way," one said, describing the Government's claim that no decision had been made as "nonsense". He added: "I think there is an issue over the extent to which they have misled Parliament."

The accusations will increase pressure on Tony Blair, who was struggling last night to contain the most serious backbench revolt he has faced on Iraq with many Labour MPs who supported the war opposed to the redeployment of 600 soldiers of the Black Watch.

Amid signs that he was considering backing down, the Prime Minister insisted there was no political aspect and that no decision had been taken prior to a reconnaissance yesterday by British officers of the area where they would be based.

"There has been a military request by the American military to the British military, not a political request from the US president to me," he said. "No decision will be taken to redeploy British troops unless it is clear militarily that should and can happen." But one reliable defence source said the Black Watch was told at the beginning of last week: "Here is your warning order, you are about to move."

The Government had hoped to make the move without any announcement, sources said. But the news leaked after it reached families in Scotland and at the regiment's base in Warminster, Wilts.

The manner in which the issue has been handled will add to the growing anger in Whitehall over how Mr Blair is prepared to make a decision and then expects civil servants, intelligence officers or military officers to produce the evidence to support it. "We've seen this happen with MI6 over the intelligence on WMD and now it's happening with the military," one Whitehall source said.

The reconnaissance team at Iskandiriya, a US Marines base south of Baghdad, was not there to decide whether or not the Black Watch should deploy, defence sources added. It was there to work out how to make the best of a difficult situation.

It was the way in which the British troops should operate and under what conditions that would form the basis of the advice on the move from Gen Sir Michael Walker, Chief of Defence Staff. Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, told Parliament on Monday that the formal US request for British troops was made on Oct 10. But Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, said yesterday that he had first heard about the redeployment two weeks ago.

"You don't wait two weeks before sending a reconnaissance team out, give them a few hours to come up with a report, and then expect the Chief of Defence Staff to come up with his recommendations for ministers the next day," one source said. "Things simply don't happen that way. Not in the British Army at any rate. The idea that no decision had been made when Mr Hoon addressed MPs yesterday is nonsense."

Air Marshal Sir John Walker, a former deputy chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee, said yesterday there was unhappiness within Whitehall and even No 10 over how Mr Blair was ready to ride roughshod over his advisers on Iraq.

"It's known as the 'Tony Wants' syndrome," Sir John said. "Tony wants to send these troops and the Army has to come up with a way to do it. People are saying the Black Watch are only the reserves but in the military business reserves are fundamental."

The Black Watch was sent to Iraq in June to give British troops an armoured rapid response force. Gen Walker is known to have expressed concern that to remove the unit to make "a political point" about support for the US was extremely risky.

There were signs last night that the furore might be forcing a rethink.

Officials suggested the schedule announced by Mr Hoon, under which a decision would be made as early as today, might be stretched - possibly to after the US presidential election on Nov 2. This would avoid claims that Mr Blair was "doing a favour" for President George W Bush, while a refusal to redeploy would likely be seized on by John Kerry, the Democratic challenger.
PLEASE get rid of Bush: he's clearly infectious.



Xtremehkr
Oct 19, 2004, 09:26 PM
I used to like Tony Blair, why did he sell his soul to Bush?

mactastic
Oct 19, 2004, 09:48 PM
He didn't sell his soul, he bet it on finding WMD in Iraq and coming out looking like Da Man. I would imagine he'd be untouchable if the WMD had been there. Heck, so would Dubya.

Ugg
Oct 19, 2004, 10:17 PM
I used to like Tony Blair, why did he sell his soul to Bush?

Remember before the war that there were a number of conspiracy theories floating around about gw & co. having some kind of hold over tony the poodle? I wonder if there is any truth in that. I just can't see why he so blatantly lied to the world and why he was so willing to stand beside gw. Was it a growing sense that the UK is losing its pre-eminence in world affairs? Or.....

IJ Reilly
Oct 20, 2004, 02:20 AM
PLEASE get rid of Bush: he's clearly infectious.

We're trying, but he refuses to go quietly.

Xtremehkr
Oct 20, 2004, 02:26 AM
Remember before the war that there were a number of conspiracy theories floating around about gw & co. having some kind of hold over tony the poodle? I wonder if there is any truth in that. I just can't see why he so blatantly lied to the world and why he was so willing to stand beside gw. Was it a growing sense that the UK is losing its pre-eminence in world affairs? Or.....

I have a sneaking suspicion that he thought someone may as well share in the loot. Out of the two, I am more willing to believe that Tony's intentions were good. Bush never breaks a sweat, no matter what happens. At least Tony Blair sweats rivers while lying to the world.

toontra
Oct 20, 2004, 05:09 AM
I used to like Tony Blair, why did he sell his soul to Bush?

My opinion is that Blair has messianic complex, based on his religious beliefs, which leads him to make decisions that, though he knows will be unpopular, will earn him a place in history as one of the "greats". Iraq was his chance for greatness. As mactastic said, if WMD had been found, he would have trumpeted the fact long and hard; as it is, he lost. He gambled, and should be forced to pay the price paid by all gamblers.

As for his sincerity, don't forget that we are dealing with the greatest actor (not orator) we have ever seen . This man is able to shed an onion tear at the drop of a hat!

Xtremehkr
Oct 20, 2004, 11:44 AM
My opinion is that Blair has messianic complex, based on his religious beliefs, which leads him to make decisions that, though he knows will be unpopular, will earn him a place in history as one of the "greats". Iraq was his chance for greatness. As mactastic said, if WMD had been found, he would have trumpeted the fact long and hard; as it is, he lost. He gambled, and should be forced to pay the price paid by all gamblers.

As for his sincerity, don't forget that we are dealing with the greatest actor (not orator) we have ever seen . This man is able to shed an onion tear at the drop of a hat!

I think to want to be a world leader you have to have that somewhere in your being. Dubya seems to happily consider himself to be the anti-FDR, I don't know whether he actually believes that he will make things better or if he even cares about it. Judging by his actions so far I don't think he understands or cares all that much.

It sounds as though Blair is history though, the Brits are holding him to a higher standard than our own President is it seems.

skunk
Oct 20, 2004, 12:41 PM
It sounds as though Blair is history though
It's his own fault: he shouldn't have allowed himself the hubris. Nemesis is bound to follow.

IJ Reilly
Oct 20, 2004, 12:49 PM
Nemesis is bound to follow.

Does Mr. Nemesis have a first name?

skunk
Oct 20, 2004, 12:51 PM
No. Just "Mr Nemesis" to you... ;)

solvs
Oct 20, 2004, 03:59 PM
He gambled, and should be forced to pay the price paid by all gamblers.
Bush gambled, too. And we lose. I hope you guys in the UK make him pay up as much as I hope we do for Dubya. This is the information age, we shouldn't let them get away with stuff like this.

Xtremehkr
Oct 20, 2004, 04:05 PM
It's his own fault: he shouldn't have allowed himself the hubris. Nemesis is bound to follow.

I agree, about Tony.

mactastic
Oct 21, 2004, 10:41 AM
Bush or more accurately, Rove through Bush, has been gambling much of his administration. Bush's major push for GOP candidates against the odds in the mid-term elections of 2002 was seen as a major gamble, but it paid off in spades as they say. It looks like they are gambling right now that more evangelical voters can be brought to the polls than undecided voters.

Of course Iraq was a gamble, one that Bush thought was a lock. Tenet even told him so. But at that point Bush was on a winning streak and wasn't about to stop pressing his luck when the stakes were highest. If the WMD were there (which was the safe bet) Bush and Blair along with every other member of the suddenly vast coalition would have looked like Saviors to their people. Bush's reelection would be assured, with the GOP probably looking for ways to repeal the amendment limiting a president to two terms and finding high levels of support.

I thought Bush was toast after he lost the Iraq bet, but he is much stronger than a Democratic president would be after such an ordeal. Shoot, DC business near came to a stop for two years when Clinton lied about a BJ.