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RMXO
Jun 16, 2010, 12:01 PM
Has anyone checked out http://www.onlive.com/

I recently signed up for their Founding Members program

http://www.onlive.com/signup

Free for one year & $4.95/month afterwards

Works for both PC & Mac.

Here's a quote on renewals, suspend & cancelations:

Membership Renewal

Before your free twelve (12) month membership offer concludes, you must decide whether: (i) to keep your Account accessible on the Service by renewing it; (ii) to Suspend your Account; or (iii) to Close your Account. If you take no action at all, your Account automatically will be Suspended at the end of the free twelve (12) month membership as set forth in the Terms of Service. For complete details on Suspending and Closing your Account, please see the Terms of Service. Note that if you Suspend your Account prior to the expiration of the free twelve (12) month membership offer, you will not extend the term of the free twelve (12) month membership offer which runs uninterrupted from the date of Account activation until expiration of the free twelve (12) month membership offer.

OnLive will send you an email at least thirty (30) days before the expiration of your free twelve (12) month membership period offering you the opportunity to keep your Account accessible on the Service by renewing your membership at a rate of $4.95/month, on a month-to-month basis for up to twelve (12) additional months. If you renew your membership before it expires, you will continue receiving uninterrupted access to the Service and to any games, content or services that you have purchased or obtained that have not yet expired. Note that if you Suspend your Account during the second twelve (12) month term of your membership, you will not extend the term of the second twelve (12) month offer of $4.95/month. At the end of the second twelve (12) month term, any renewal will be at the going membership rate for the Service at such time. These rates are not available yet, but will be made available at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of the second (12) month offer of $4.95/month.

I read this awhile back when it was announced and was interested it then. Might be cool because I prefer to play games in OSX then compared having to boot into BC to play them.

I like Steam but the games I like to play are windows only so far. Hopefully this changes things. I can always cancel when my free membership is up.



TheTrueMacGamer
Jun 16, 2010, 12:32 PM
You can no longer signup for the free offer. The cut-off was midnight last night.

RMXO
Jun 16, 2010, 03:08 PM
=(

Durandal02
Jun 16, 2010, 03:40 PM
You can no longer signup for the free offer. The cut-off was midnight last night.

It works for me and they still advertise it on their website. Are you sure, or is this more of your propaganda :P

Unless you're talking about the waitlist :(

TheTrueMacGamer
Jun 16, 2010, 05:18 PM
It works for me and they still advertise it on their website. Are you sure, or is this more of your propaganda :P

Unless you're talking about the waitlist :(

I don't speak propaganda. I speak the truth.

If you look at the fine print on the signup page, where it says "No purchase necessary... ", it also says "Must sign-up between June 15, 2010 at 12:01 AM PDT and July 15, 2010 at 11:59 PM PDT"

But, if the form is still allowing signups, then maybe they are still adding names to the list. I suppose if enough people are ineligible on the list, then they would have to keep accepting forms.

Dobbs2
Jun 16, 2010, 05:22 PM
I don't speak propaganda. I speak the truth.

If you look at the fine print on the signup page, where it says "No purchase necessary... ", it also says "Must sign-up between June 15, 2010 at 12:01 AM PDT and July 15, 2010 at 11:59 PM PDT"

But, if the form is still allowing signups, then maybe they are still adding names to the list. I suppose if enough people are ineligible on the list, then they would have to keep accepting forms.

Isn't today only June 16th? Wouldn't he have like a whole 30 days left to sign up?

TheTrueMacGamer
Jun 16, 2010, 07:45 PM
Isn't today only June 16th? Wouldn't he have like a whole 30 days left to sign up?

Whoops, you're right. For some reason I read June twice. My mistake.

savvos
Jun 16, 2010, 07:51 PM
I tried out OnLive at E3. I tiny bit of lag, but not too bad. Maybe not the best for FPS twitch fests, but it can run on practically anything. I just hope it works as well with the crappy cable internet service most of us are forced to use.

c-Row
Jun 17, 2010, 01:12 AM
Until watching the video of an iPad running Borderlands on TouchArcade it never occured to me that you could actually play non-Mac games on Mac devices. :eek: I feel dumb now.

Hope this gets available outside the USA soon.

jgmachine
Jun 17, 2010, 09:21 AM
I'm looking forward to starting up this service! I signed up months ago and am supposed to be getting a year free along with a free game. The service is supposed to start rolling out today, just waiting for my e-mail to begin the service. I need something to take my mind off of waiting for my new iPhone :-P

I hope this service really works out, definitely looks like it very well could be the future of gaming.

txa1265
Jun 17, 2010, 09:35 AM
Until watching the video of an iPad running Borderlands on TouchArcade it never occured to me that you could actually play non-Mac games on Mac devices. :eek: I feel dumb now.

Hope this gets available outside the USA soon.

For me watching it on the iPad made me think ... WHY are the controls NOT at the bottom?!?!

Hoping for this to actually release today so I can get myself exhausted staying up too late tonight!

Dagless
Jun 17, 2010, 10:15 AM
I hope this service really works out, definitely looks like it very well could be the future of gaming.
I hope not! The lag and cost alone would be pretty astronomical. Gaming has been getting better over the years, Onlive is a step back.

Foop
Jun 17, 2010, 10:26 AM
I hope not! The lag and cost alone would be pretty astronomical. Gaming has been getting better over the years, Onlive is a step back.

Although I can see your point of view, I disagree. The only reason I buy new computers these days is to be able to keep playing current games. If a 5+ year old system can suddenly handle the most demanding new titles the hardware savings will more than make up for a subscription fee. I think there is a market here, and if it works as advertised I think it will save me money.

GFLPraxis
Jun 17, 2010, 10:48 AM
Just a side note: Lag of even a tenth of a second makes it completely unusable for fighting games. Competitive Smash Bros tournaments have to actually test HDTV's to make sure that the lag of the analog/digital conversion is only a couple of frames before using them, or the top players will complain.

For a casual, story-based game, OnLive might work, but not for anything competitive. It's not something I'd like to see standard.

Dagless
Jun 17, 2010, 10:53 AM
I use my computer for work too so I need that power, it's just nice when it also increases game performance. But yea, the subscription fee is $15 a month.

$180 a year, that's just to be a member.

My oldest (and fully capable I might add) gaming computer is 4 years old. So for the life of that system, just to play games, would be $720. That's inching towards the cost of the machine itself. Throw in games and yea. That's pricey just to play games that you don't own, that you cannot play once you stop paying that $180 pa subscription.
Throughout that time you're never going to experience a game as it was intended. There will always be lag, even if you were a neighbour to their servers using a dedicated fibre optic adhoc connection.

Hardware manufactures are trying to reduce lag as much they can. It isn't progression.

jgmachine
Jun 17, 2010, 12:14 PM
Just a side note: Lag of even a tenth of a second makes it completely unusable for fighting games. Competitive Smash Bros tournaments have to actually test HDTV's to make sure that the lag of the analog/digital conversion is only a couple of frames before using them, or the top players will complain.

For a casual, story-based game, OnLive might work, but not for anything competitive. It's not something I'd like to see standard.

In one of the presentations of the OnLive service they showed that the lag was supposedly even less than that of a local console. I'm not quite sure how that's possible, but that's what they were claiming. We won't really see until we've got access to the service.

Like I said, they gave me a year free and a free game, as a mac owner who's gaming titles are very limited, I'm looking forward to trying out this service for free over the next year. The prices and quality of service are going to have to push the boundaries if OnLive is looking to break into the current competitive marketplace.

Also, being able to play on almost any computer, or their microconsole wherever I am and pickup my game where I left off is another plus for me since I'm away from home a lot.

We'll see, if it's successful it's going to have to be a step forward, not back. If it's a step back I don't see how it can end up being successful. Maybe the service isn't for everyone, I for one think there's a market for it.

jgmachine
Jun 17, 2010, 12:16 PM
Here's a quote I found on the lag from here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/can-we-measure-onlive-lag-yes-we-can

Fascinating comments from OnLive this week, courtesy of CEO Steve Perlmen, including a very helpful definition of what latency is and how little of a factor it is with OnLive. ‘The round trip latency from pushing a button on a controller and it going up to the server and back down, and you seeing something change on screen should be less than 80 milliseconds,’ Perlmen told the BBC. ‘We usually see something between 35 and 40 milliseconds.’

EDIT: Found this link comparing some different games which apparently all have a latency near 100ms, which makes the 35-40ms lag from onlive look super acceptable. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-console-lag-round-two-article?page=3

bobsbarricades
Jun 17, 2010, 12:32 PM
i am stoked about this. I applied for the founding members program 2 days ago I think, but haven't had any contact if I'm allowed in or not. I think I'm on a waiting list of sorts.

I think it goes live tonight at 9.

Dillenger
Jun 17, 2010, 01:13 PM
Signed up for the free year, fingers are crossed.

macfan881
Jun 17, 2010, 10:16 PM
yeah i signed up when thhat deal went out still waiting on a email

Dagless
Jun 18, 2010, 04:46 AM
Honestly, this stuff should be avoided like the plague-

OnLive will close your Account if it not resumed within twelve (12) months of the last suspension.

From section 13:

CLOSING YOUR ACCOUNT WILL RESULT IN PERMANENT LOSS OF ACCESS, CONTENT, SERVICES AND VALUE ON THE ONLIVE SERVICE. ONLIVE URGES YOU TO CONSIDER SUSPENDING YOUR ACCOUNT, PER THE "SUSPENDING YOUR ACCOUNT" SECTION ABOVE. RATHER THAN CLOSING YOUR ACCOUNT, PLEASE READ THIS "CLOSING YOUR ACCOUNT" SECTION CAREFULLY BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH CLOSURE.

No matter how much you pump into the service, if you stop paying a the subscription after 1 year you lose everything you "purchased".

Venkman90
Jun 18, 2010, 05:16 AM
They signed a big deal with BT in the UK not long back which got me interested.

Essentially I agree with Rick Dagless MD, "renting" games is not where it's at, they might be able to get some people but even Valve have always said if they were going under they would take all the DRM off your games as they know people take ownership seriously (even if they are not fussed with lack of trade in).

Digital distribution is still a way off being ready to take over physical media and the main problem is the idea someone can take away your collection.

txa1265
Jun 18, 2010, 05:55 AM
Honestly, this stuff should be avoided like the plague-



No matter how much you pump into the service, if you stop paying a the subscription after 1 year you lose everything you "purchased".

THAT is the big concern I have as well ... it makes it like GameTap in that way - except that you have to pay for the stuff you lose when you leave!

Blair230
Jun 18, 2010, 08:49 AM
I have to disagree. As long as ONLIVE makes this clear, then the consumer goes into it with both eyes open. I actually think the service is not a bad thing for people that dont have the computer to run all the latest stuff, and dont have the big bucks to fork out for a decent gaming machine.

Fortunately I have a decent machine but the computer and I are moving out soon and this service might work for My Dad and Sister (who are both occasional gamers but not hardcore enough to get a gaming machine). It's something I am thinking about for them...

LouisBlack
Jun 18, 2010, 09:23 AM
Essentially I agree with Rick Dagless MD

That's because no one disagrees with Dr Rick Dagless MD - best doctor in all of Romford.

Ahem... I agree. I just can't see how it could be playable. Even RPGs nowadays need fast reaction times. Also, there is no way that I could go from full 1080p with no compression to 720p with a ridiculous amount of compression. There is no way it can look even half as good especially with fast motion on screen.

Paulyboy
Jun 18, 2010, 11:49 AM
Okay so what's the best way to trick OnLive into thinking I'm using a wired Internet connection as opposed to the wireless connection (via an Airport Express) that I'm really using?

I know on the PC side people are doing something called “bridging” their Internet connections to get around this but I'm not sure what to do on the Mac side. It probably has something to do with Internet sharing but I'm not sure which way to go about it.

And yes I know I could just go buy a wired router or simply unplug the ethernet cable from the Airport Express and plug it into my Mac (which is actually what I've been doing) but I don't really want to spend any money on this because I'm not certain I'm even going to stick with this service and constantly unplugging and plugging back in is a pain.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

-PN

Cougarcat
Jun 18, 2010, 12:11 PM
No matter how much you pump into the service, if you stop paying a the subscription after 1 year you lose everything you "purchased".

Yeah, that's ridiculous. You should be able to suspend your account for any length of time.

Anybody notice that ME2 is Windows-only? Doesn't make any sense. And have they announced game pricing yet? I would only consider trying this out (even with the free year) if the games are rental or near-rental prices. Since I clearly would NOT be owning them.

findnemo
Jun 25, 2010, 08:43 PM
I can bypass onlive wireless checker by using this

http://rokland.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=336&osCsid=d408d3487e43c666c188388438cdf284

It works perfect. I actually recommend it if you are having wifi problems in big institutions like universities.

I love my N3.

Paulyboy
Jun 26, 2010, 11:41 AM
I can bypass onlive wireless checker by using this

http://rokland.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=336&osCsid=d408d3487e43c666c188388438cdf284

It works perfect. I actually recommend it if you are having wifi problems in big institutions like universities.

I love my N3.

Thanks for the suggestion, and that looks like a great product, but I'm not going to buy something just so I can use that service. I will wait until they enable WiFi access. :)

-PN

Huntn
Jun 26, 2010, 12:03 PM
Honestly, this stuff should be avoided like the plague-



No matter how much you pump into the service, if you stop paying a the subscription after 1 year you lose everything you "purchased".

Along the lines of a MMO subscription except you are paying extra for the right to play a specific game? How much does it cost to "buy" the average AAA game?

Dagless
Jun 26, 2010, 01:08 PM
Along the lines of a MMO subscription except you are paying extra for the right to play a specific game? How much does it cost to "buy" the average AAA game?

An MMO doesn't generally remove your profile data once you stop paying though.
Prices are equal to store prices.

buklau
Jun 26, 2010, 04:44 PM
Here's a quote I found on the lag from here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/can-we-measure-onlive-lag-yes-we-can

Fascinating comments from OnLive this week, courtesy of CEO Steve Perlmen, including a very helpful definition of what latency is and how little of a factor it is with OnLive. ‘The round trip latency from pushing a button on a controller and it going up to the server and back down, and you seeing something change on screen should be less than 80 milliseconds,’ Perlmen told the BBC. ‘We usually see something between 35 and 40 milliseconds.’

EDIT: Found this link comparing some different games which apparently all have a latency near 100ms, which makes the 35-40ms lag from onlive look super acceptable. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-console-lag-round-two-article?page=3

Those are all console games though. What about highly competitive games like Counter Strike and Unreal Tournament 2004?

In order to reduce lag and improve fluidity, many competitive players have been known to:

-increase their USB polling rates to 500-1000Hz (1-2ms)
-play in low latency servers (think 72ms and below)
-play at high monitor refresh rates (over 100Hz)

All of this is to reduce any input lag and increase fluidity of the game. It seems like adding an additional 30-80ms to any of that would be considered unplayable.

Granted, I don't think too many computers are struggling to play those games, but the issue of lag in highly competitive games still stands. I don't think OnLive will ever be able to effectively counter those concerns (until they can access superluminal telecommunications ;)).

Huntn
Jun 27, 2010, 12:49 AM
An MMO doesn't generally remove your profile data once you stop paying though.
Prices are equal to store prices.

You kind of face the same thing with Steam, except Steam you are buying the game, but no subscription costs. It sounds problematic to some degree.

Dagless
Jun 27, 2010, 05:05 AM
You kind of face the same thing with Steam, except Steam you are buying the game, but no subscription costs. It sounds problematic to some degree.

No, with Steam if you stop paying any money into it then in X number of years you'll still have your account. If you stop logging in then in X number of years you'll still have your account. You don't lose access to the content you paid for.

With Onlive once you stop subscribing and logging in, in 1 year you lose your account. You lose access to the content you paid for.

Dagless
Jun 27, 2010, 05:12 AM
Here's a quote I found on the lag from here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/can-we-measure-onlive-lag-yes-we-can

Fascinating comments from OnLive this week, courtesy of CEO Steve Perlmen, including a very helpful definition of what latency is and how little of a factor it is with OnLive. ‘The round trip latency from pushing a button on a controller and it going up to the server and back down, and you seeing something change on screen should be less than 80 milliseconds,’ Perlmen told the BBC. ‘We usually see something between 35 and 40 milliseconds.’

EDIT: Found this link comparing some different games which apparently all have a latency near 100ms, which makes the 35-40ms lag from onlive look super acceptable. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-console-lag-round-two-article?page=3
1) They're console games, which always do feel laggy compared to PC games.
2) If the lag exists in PC games too then expect that 100ms ping plus 35-80ms, giving you a nice laggy total.

Huntn
Jun 27, 2010, 09:07 AM
With Onlive once you stop subscribing and logging in, in 1 year you lose your account. You lose access to the content you paid for.

Yep, that's very bad. You are not really buying a game via the Onlive service. In essence you are paying an access fee that expires if you close your subscription. Based on this info, I would steer clear of Onlive until/if they correct that issue.

wmw71190
Jun 27, 2010, 01:02 PM
Yep, that's very bad. You are not really buying a game via the Onlive service. In essence you are paying an access fee that expires if you close your subscription. Based on this info, I would steer clear of Onlive until/if they correct that issue.

I'm assuming since they are trying to get as much statistical data as possible about the system (hence the no-wifi rule and the bandwidth rule), they are keeping the ToS very strict. I would guess that this would change once the system is out of beta. They may not call this a beta but it really is.