What GPU in new iMac

[bas-macfan]

Hi everyone,

In the current high end Imac 21.5 inch a ATI Radeon HD 4670 with 256 MB does the GPU work.

When i am looking at the new macbook pro a NVIDIA GeForce 320M for the cheap ones and a NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M with 512 MB for the high end does the GPU work.

What GPU will the new iMac have? the same as the macbook pro line or a better one?

[Hellhammer]

Likely ATI Mobility Radeon 5650 or 57xx. NVidia GF 330M is slower than ATI 4670

[DesmoPilot]

No one but Apple knows.

[Ace134blue]

Likely ATI Mobility Radeon 5650 or 57xx. NVidia GF 330M is slower than ATI 4670

They put desktop gpus and desktop cpus not mobile ones.

[Hellhammer]

They put desktop gpus and desktop cpus not mobile ones.

Not gonna happen with current design. Sure they could use e.g. underclocked ATI 5750 but that's same as mobility 5850.

[Ace134blue]

Not gonna happen with current design. Sure they could use e.g. underclocked ATI 5750 but that's same as mobility 5850.

No dude, they said they put desktop ones in the imac in the intro video of it on apples website. Im 100% sure the cpu's are desktop based and im pretty sure the gpus are too.

[TMRaven]

The gpus are mobility based while the cpus are desktop based. The problem wouldn't so much the heat generated, but the amount of space they'd need for a desktop card's daughterboard.

http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/aVSHuUxm3d5ZLJPN.huge

That is a mobility card's daughterboard. A desktop card's daughterboard would be about the same width, but 2-3x the length.

http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/g1q3TMAZD1skKwhG.huge

That is how the mobility gpu's daughterboard relates to the logic board of the iMac.

underclocked 5750 would probably be more like a mobility 5870.

[Hellhammer]

No dude, they said they put desktop ones in the imac in the intro video of it on apples website. Im 100% sure the cpu's are desktop based and im pretty sure the gpus are too.

CPUs are desktop versions but GPUs are not.

[Hellhammer]

underclocked 5750 would probably be more like a mobility 5870.

Depends on how much Apple would underclock it ;) My bad, should have said 58xx :o

[peakchua]

Not gonna happen with current design. Sure they could use e.g. underclocked ATI 5750 but that's same as mobility 5850.


or they could overclock the 5850 mobility to be the mobilty 5870... 5870 is the same compared to 5850.. just different clocks

[peakchua]

They put desktop gpus and desktop cpus not mobile ones.

apple is always really misleading.. in the forum it is common knowledge that the gpu in the imacs are mobile.. in the sense that these computer graphics processing units reach to extremely hot levels and also all the other all in one makers use mobility graphics to. ill show you this ifixit teardown..

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac-Intel-27-Inch-Teardown/1236/2

the one on the bottom left is the gpu.. definetely not desktop

[Ace134blue]

apple is always really misleading.. in the forum it is common knowledge that the gpu in the imacs are mobile.. in the sense that these computer graphics processing units reach to extremely hot levels and also all the other all in one makers use mobility graphics to. ill show you this ifixit teardown..

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac-Intel-27-Inch-Teardown/1236/2

the one on the bottom left is the gpu.. definetely not desktop

Thats not what i meant. Of course it isnt the same physical size as the desktop counterpart. It means it has the same specs as the desktop one. lets look at it this way. A 9600GT has 64 cores.(desktop version) The 9600mgt (mobile) has exactly half the shader cores (32).
Although its not the exact physical size it has the exact same desktop specs and might possibly be underclocked to save heat problems.

[TMRaven]

It's one of the few mobility cards that has the same specs as its desktop counterpart, except for being underclocked. That still means it's a mobility card, though, and it's meant for laptops and smaller form-factor computers that can't handle the heat/size (27 inch iMac can handle the heat of the mobility 4850 overclocked to desktop standards very well, when the fans are running higher)


We're not trying to say the mobility 4850 is a bad card at all by the simple fact that it's a laptop card though, it's one of the elite mobility cards on the market.

[peakchua]

im not really sure how the new graphics options will add up :O. it really depends on apples pricing relationships with AMD. al the 5650-5750 have lower tdps than the 4670 but again, amd could give cheaper pricings and we can see better cards. i also hope a gt 320m is provided for the base model + upgrade the a gt 330m 512mb i hate 256mb video cards. as for the next model a mobility 5650 is possible 27 inch low end maybe 5750 and then high end 5850. i hope 5750 is provided standard for the high end 25 and a 512mb version is provided for the 27inch as a more justifiable price other than screen size. even if high end imac gets a little speed bump in graphics, ill be happy. but if apple uses 5650 to 5750, it increases the chance of apple putting in faster clocked or higher tdp processors.

[Hellhammer]

Thats not what i meant. Of course it isnt the same physical size as the desktop counterpart. It means it has the same specs as the desktop one. lets look at it this way. A 9600GT has 64 cores.(desktop version) The 9600mgt (mobile) has exactly half the shader cores (32).
Although its not the exact physical size it has the exact same desktop specs and might possibly be underclocked to save heat problems.

How are those "exactly same specs"? It has half the cores, thus it's a lot slower, let alone major underclocking. You cannot compare similarly named desktop chip to mobile chip, they aren't always based on same chip.

For example, mobility 58xx is based on desktop 57xx. Desktop 58xx is A LOT faster than 57xx, but there are no mobility version of it. Another example is NVidia 280M, it's based on desktop 9800 GTX+, not on desktop GTX 280.

It's pretty uncommon that the mobility version is based on same chip as the desktop version. Usually it's based on one level lower, just like mobility 58xx is.

[willcodejavafor]

These threads makes me sad

[dexthageek]

It is a shame, Apple does not invest more in getting a decent GPU in their iMacs.

While the consoles are my main source for games, I would like to have a better GPU in my Mac. The release of Steam and the future release of Diablo 3 and StarCraft 2 is exciting. I am torn, I hate windows and love Macs, but I can build an upgradeable PC w/ a kick a$% GPU, that I can upgrade in a couple years. If I get the iMac, then I am stuck until I purchase a new machine. I would have ordered an iMac i7 weeks ago, if it was not for the reasons stated above.

[TMRaven]

Apple's not trying to purposefully limit graphics. To be quite honest, they provided the best graphics card they could outside of mobility 4870, as far as ati cards go. The last line of iMacs were introduced before ati introduced the mobility 5k series. Apple chooses to release their computers along new cpu releases and not gpu releases (latest iMacs were intro'd alongside lynnfield)

[dexthageek]

Apple's not trying to purposefully limit graphics. To be quite honest, they provided the best graphics card they could outside of mobility 4870, as far as ati cards go. The last line of iMacs were introduced before ati introduced the mobility 5k series. Apple chooses to release their computers along new cpu releases and not gpu releases (latest iMacs were intro'd alongside lynnfield)

I don't think Apple has really ever been interested in people gaming on their computers. However, I have a feeling that is going to change over the new couple years. I believe Steam is on the foreground of that change as well.

[dwarnecke11]

My money's on the ATI Radeon 5750 HD (mobile) for the high end and the expected NVIDIA 320M on the low-end. A built-to-order 5870 would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. Not sure about the midrange.

Apple is using some of the better mobile GPUs on the market - they can't just drop in a high-powered desktop GPU considering all of the power and heat constraints.

[Hellhammer]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; fi-fi) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

My money's on the ATI Radeon 5750 HD (mobile) for the high end and the expected NVIDIA 320M on the low-end. A built-to-order 5870 would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. Not sure about the midrange.

Apple is using some of the better mobile GPUs on the market - they can't just drop in a high-powered desktop GPU considering all of the power and heat constraints.

ATI 5750 in high end would be huge decrease in performance. 5850 is the least Apple can use and even it isnt really an update

[Ace134blue]

How are those "exactly same specs"? It has half the cores, thus it's a lot slower, let alone major underclocking. You cannot compare similarly named desktop chip to mobile chip, they aren't always based on same chip.

For example, mobility 58xx is based on desktop 57xx. Desktop 58xx is A LOT faster than 57xx, but there are no mobility version of it. Another example is NVidia 280M, it's based on desktop 9800 GTX+, not on desktop GTX 280.

It's pretty uncommon that the mobility version is based on same chip as the desktop version. Usually it's based on one level lower, just like mobility 58xx is.

..... I know that. I was giving an example of the difference between a 9600gtm and a desktop model differed.
"Although its not the exact physical size it has the exact same desktop specs and might possibly be underclocked to save heat problems."
That ^ was talking about the imacs gpu.....

[Hellhammer]

..... I know that. I was giving an example of the difference between a 9600gtm and a desktop model differed.
"Although its not the exact physical size it has the exact same desktop specs and might possibly be underclocked to save heat problems."
That ^ was talking about the imacs gpu.....

It's not the same chip actually. Mobility version is based on G96 core i.e. desktop 9400 and 9500 while desktop 9600 is based on G94 core. For example, desktop 9600 has 256bit mem bus width while mobile version has 128bit, that already big difference in performance

[Ace134blue]

It's not the same chip actually. Mobility version is based on G96 core i.e. desktop 9400 and 9500 while desktop 9600 is based on G94 core. For example, desktop 9600 has 256bit mem bus width while mobile version has 128bit, that already big difference in performance

What the ***** ??????? YOUR NOT LISTENING.... Damn..... I know what the hell im talking about and your not even reading what i said right. This has nothing to do with the damn 9600 gpus. I am talking about the iMacs gpu having the exact same specs as the desktop counterpart. The 4850 has the exact same specs as the desktop counterpart. Only difference between the two is the clock speed.

I know the differences between the 9600m and desktop. I only gave one example of the difference between the two which was having half of the shader cores......

[Hellhammer]

What the ***** ??????? YOUR NOT LISTENING.... Damn..... I know what the hell im talking about and your not even reading what i said right. This has nothing to do with the damn 9600 gpus. I am talking about the iMacs gpu having the exact same specs as the desktop counterpart. The 4850 has the exact same specs as the desktop counterpart. Only difference between the two is the clock speed.

I know the differences between the 9600m and desktop. I only gave one example of the difference between the two which was having half of the shader cores......

Don't give examples that are not true, do your research and stop guessing that they MIGHT be the same chip.

I know mobility 4850 is based on desktop 4850 and has just lower clocks but if we are talking about future iMac, the mobility 5850 is not based on desktop 5850. ATI 4xxx series isn't that normal because most mobility GPUs are based on similarly named desktop chips but that's just one series.

[nsontaylo]

The 9800GT is better because it has more shaders small vector processors within the GPU that figure out how 3-dimensional placing affects the lighting and color of what's on screen. You cannot change the GPU on the current iMacs. They are soldered onto the motherboard. Wait a bit longer, Apple should come out with iMacs with 8600M GTs' in them. Those cards are excellent for gaming. Not in the range of the 8800, but still more than enough.

[Hellhammer]

The 9800GT is better because it has more shaders small vector processors within the GPU that figure out how 3-dimensional placing affects the lighting and color of what's on screen. You cannot change the GPU on the current iMacs. They are soldered onto the motherboard. Wait a bit longer, Apple should come out with iMacs with 8600M GTs' in them. Those cards are excellent for gaming. Not in the range of the 8800, but still more than enough.

9800 and 8800 series are ancient :rolleyes:

[TMRaven]

Yeah with that same logic, every mobility card could be considered a desktop card, and every desktop card could be considered a mobility card :)

[peakchua]

what happened to the gt 130? honestly, it should be the base 27inch choice

[Hellhammer]

what happened to the gt 130? honestly, it should be the base 27inch choice

It died. It's too hot for 21.5" and not much faster than 4670. BTW, it's renamed 9800M GS

[Ace134blue]

Don't give examples that are not true, do your research and stop guessing that they MIGHT be the same chip.

I know mobility 4850 is based on desktop 4850 and has just lower clocks but if we are talking about future iMac, the mobility 5850 is not based on desktop 5850. ATI 4xxx series isn't that normal because most mobility GPUs are based on similarly named desktop chips but that's just one series.

What the **** dude....? So your saying the 9600gtm does *NOT* have half of the shader cores? Well your wong than. I know 1000X more about gpus than you do. Im not guessing about ****. I never said they were the same chip anyways. The only thing i said was that the mobile version had half the shader cores. If i wanted to be really specific and technical i would have.....damn. people never listen.

FYI I am talking about the current imac and not the future models.

[TMRaven]

You didn't know enough to think the current iMacs have mobile gpus :P

[Hellhammer]

So your saying the 9600gtm does *NOT* have half of the shader cores?

I never said that

I know 1000X more about gpus than you do.

Says a guy who said iMacs use desktop GPUs and desktop and mobile chips have exactly same specs :rolleyes:

I never said they were the same chip anyways.

Exactly same specs = same chip

FYI I am talking about the current imac and not the future models.

Why on earth did you mention 9600 then? It has never been used in iMac anyway...

[zmttoxics]

What the **** dude....? So your saying the 9600gtm does *NOT* have half of the shader cores? Well your wong than. I know 1000X more about gpus than you do. Im not guessing about ****. I never said they were the same chip anyways. The only thing i said was that the mobile version had half the shader cores. If i wanted to be really specific and technical i would have.....damn. people never listen.

FYI I am talking about the current imac and not the future models.

Lawl. This post made my day. Argument fail.

[ermir4444]

What the **** dude....? So your saying the 9600gtm does *NOT* have half of the shader cores? Well your wong than. I know 1000X more about gpus than you do. Im not guessing about ****. I never said they were the same chip anyways. The only thing i said was that the mobile version had half the shader cores. If i wanted to be really specific and technical i would have.....damn. people never listen.

FYI I am talking about the current imac and not the future models.

SMBD kick this uninformed troll out of this forum...

[Ace134blue]

I never said that



Says a guy who said iMacs use desktop GPUs and desktop and mobile chips have exactly same specs :rolleyes:



Exactly same specs = same chip



Why on earth did you mention 9600 then? It has never been used in iMac anyway...

OK i see the problem. Your getting a mix up than.... You need to read more carefully next time and comprehend it.... i probably could of reworded one of my posts tho to not cause confusion.

1. One member said that the gpus in the *current* imac were the mobility versions, which was technically wrong. He than showed my a picture of a gpu on a mobo... duh. "Although its not the exact physical size it has the exact same desktop specs and might possibly be underclocked to save heat problems." This was talking about why its technically not a mobile version. The 4850 in the imac is a desktop based gpu but of course its smaller. To save heat problems they underclocked it.

2.The 9600gt was an example of how mobility vs desktop versions are different. I ONLY said that they halved the shader cores going to the mobile version. Now you got this part the wrong way. The 4850 in the imac is the exact same chip. You thought i was talking about the 9600gt and the mobile version. (partly my fault.)

3. This part "Don't give examples that are not true, do your research and stop guessing that they MIGHT be the same chip. " well, i just dont get that or where it came from.

4. I hope this cleared up the problems.

[pepto]

Oh good god all mighty, how old are you? 14?

Firstly, all iMacs have mobility gpus in them. This has been discussed over and over on the forums...if you want proof then take the time to search yourself because I'm not going to do the work for you.

Secondly, the mobility 4850 (used in the top end 27 inch iMac) is unusual in the fact that is actually the exact same chip as the desktop 4850, just underclocked to use less power.

Got it now?

Nothing to do with us not reading the garble that you are posting, just open yor eyes and accept what some other people are saying.

OK i see the problem. Your getting a mix up than.... You need to read more carefully next time and comprehend it.... i probably could of reworded one of my posts tho to not cause confusion.

1. One member said that the gpus in the *current* imac were the mobility versions, which was technically wrong. He than showed my a picture of a gpu on a mobo... duh. "Although its not the exact physical size it has the exact same desktop specs and might possibly be underclocked to save heat problems." This was talking about why its technically not a mobile version. The 4850 in the imac is a desktop based gpu but of course its smaller. To save heat problems they underclocked it.

2.The 9600gt was an example of how mobility vs desktop versions are different. I ONLY said that they halved the shader cores going to the mobile version. Now you got this part the wrong way. The 4850 in the imac is the exact same chip. You thought i was talking about the 9600gt and the mobile version. (partly my fault.)

3. This part "Don't give examples that are not true, do your research and stop guessing that they MIGHT be the same chip. " well, i just dont get that or where it came from.

4. I hope this cleared up the problems.

[deconstruct60]

i also hope a gt 320m is provided for the base model + upgrade the a gt 330m 512mb i hate 256mb video cards.

That presumes that they keep the C2D processors on the entry models. If Intel drops the prices on the i5 (or intro other versions can use) then Apple can dump the C2D from the iMac. One reason they didn't use C2D last fall was that Intel wasn't ready for high volume models ( the i5 and i7 models shipped later in lower numbers). At this point they have caught up.

If intel drops prices on Lynnfield i5's could use them which would make iMacs quad across the line. That would be nice. Or Apple can use Clarkdale ( Dual core i5 with embedded Intel IGP ) and spin them as "greener" iMacs. They go into reduced graphics mode when not doing much and turn the discrete GPU off. Sure you are plugged into the wall, but you have to pay for the electricity. :) [ that's the only 'hook' that Nvidia has is that auto switch stuff Apple has cobbled together for their set up. ]


On the desktop iMacs there is little reason now to stick with C2D. It isn't like there is a physical space constraint blocking them. Price wise there are i5s that are just as inexpensive as those 3+GHz C2Ds were last September. Also would be better if all iMacs were using the same exact processor socket 1156 that the Core-i desktops use. That means can use basically the same mainboard with different parts plugged in.

Nvidia could get dumped across the board for the iMacs which only makes the parts more uniform across the line up. Get a line up with higher OpenGL compliance and if go 55xx-57xx HD on GPUs

[TMRaven]

Mobility 4850 has specs as desktop 4850, because they're both based on the same chip-- but you know this already. The mobility 4850 is underclocked and has a downsize motherboard. The real "technicality" to the whole point is that ATI markets the card under the name mobile 4850, and the card is meant for laptops and smaller computers. With the same logic of comparable stats, one could say if apple puts mobile 5850 in the next iMac, they're putting in desktop 5750. You could get away with saying any mobile card is a desktop card by the same logic, as one way or another they're all based on certain chips.

[MythicFrost]

Honestly, I hope they do a complete rework so they use desktop GPUs instead of mobile ones. I also hope they start using desktop RAM and not laptop RAM.

I'm betting they'll use a 5850/70m or something better...

[Ace134blue]

Oh good god all mighty, how old are you? 14?

Firstly, all iMacs have mobility gpus in them. This has been discussed over and over on the forums...if you want proof then take the time to search yourself because I'm not going to do the work for you.

Secondly, the mobility 4850 (used in the top end 27 inch iMac) is unusual in the fact that is actually the exact same chip as the desktop 4850, just underclocked to use less power.

Got it now?

Nothing to do with us not reading the garble that you are posting, just open yor eyes and accept what some other people are saying.

Wow you must be 14. Read the post again dude. I said that the cards are mobility but TECHNICALLY they are not because of being based on the exact same desktop chip. I also said that it was underclocked... to use less power.............. Dont start trolling

[TMRaven]

I do not think there's a difference between the 200 pin so-dimm memory the iMacs use and desktop dimms, besides the size.

[MythicFrost]

I do not think there's a difference between the 200 pin so-dimm memory the iMacs use and desktop dimms, besides the size.
IIRC, laptop RAM is 204 pin, desktop RAM is 240 pin. I don't think they'd fit.

[zaffle]

Wow you must be 14. Read the post again dude. I said that the cards are mobility but TECHNICALLY they are not because of being based on the exact same desktop chip. I also said that it was underclocked... to use less power.............. Dont start trolling

don't condescend people because they don't understand your posts and their lack of clarity. it makes you look like an idiot.

TECHNICALLY, they ARE mobile cards. they just happen to be based off the desktop chip.

[Hellhammer]

Wow you must be 14. Read the post again dude. I said that the cards are mobility but TECHNICALLY they are not because of being based on the exact same desktop chip. I also said that it was underclocked... to use less power.............. Dont start trolling

Technically speaking desktop and mobile cards are just names, they are all based on same chips. iMac uses mobile GPUs because the GPUs match the specifications of the mobile GPUs, not the desktop ones. By talking about desktop GPUs you just confuse people, a lot. Moblility 5850 is closer to desktop 4830 than 4850 as they are all based on RV770 chip.

Why did you mention 9600 then? It had nothing to do with ATI 48xx other than that it showed that most mobility chips are NOT based on desktop counterparts.

[TMRaven]

IIRC, laptop RAM is 204 pin, desktop RAM is 240 pin. I don't think they'd fit.

I mean like performance differences.

[MeAngry]

Faster DDR3 in the current iMac wouldn't help anyway. A current quad-core i5 or i7 can't fill the total memory bandwidth dual channel PC8500 DDR3 has to offer anyway.
That's one of the reasons Intel stepped back from triple to dual channel when they made the consumer i5 and i7. It's only useful for the newer 6+ Core i7's, and still only by a little margin.

Besides that, I'm also in the market for a new iMac, so I'm patiently waiting for Apple to update the GPU's, because I'd love to do some gaming on it. :)
I wouldn't expect them to use desktop GPU's though, because that would force them to leave the current form factor, or a similar sized one. And the chances of that happening are slim to none...

[peakchua]

for ati, will they ever modify stream to make a stream processor as good as one CUDA CORE? seriously. 320 SP vs 16*3 CC is sad.

[Ace134blue]

Technically speaking desktop and mobile cards are just names, they are all based on same chips. iMac uses mobile GPUs because the GPUs match the specifications of the mobile GPUs, not the desktop ones. By talking about desktop GPUs you just confuse people, a lot. Moblility 5850 is closer to desktop 4830 than 4850 as they are all based on RV770 chip.

Why did you mention 9600 then? It had nothing to do with ATI 48xx other than that it showed that most mobility chips are NOT based on desktop counterparts.

All i was saying is the 4850 is technically a desktop based card, just because of the same chip. The 9600 was a comparison showing the differences between the mobile and desktop counterpart and how it normally is; the 4850 does NOT have any differences, besides the underclocked part which is why its a bit different.

[zmttoxics]

All i was saying is the 4850 is technically a desktop based card, just because of the same chip. The 9600 was a comparison showing the differences between the mobile and desktop counterpart and how it normally is; the 4850 does NOT have any differences, besides the underclocked part which is why its a bit different.

All you did was start an argument with capital letters, insults, and swear words. People may never take your opinion here seriously again. Enjoy! :D

[TMRaven]

All i was saying is the 4850 is technically a desktop based card, just because of the same chip. The 9600 was a comparison showing the differences between the mobile and desktop counterpart and how it normally is; the 4850 does NOT have any differences, besides the underclocked part which is why its a bit different.

Then if Apple uses a mobility 5850 in their next iMacs, we can call it an underclocked desktop 5770 right?

[Ace134blue]

Then if Apple uses a mobility 5850 in their next iMacs, we can call it an underclocked desktop 5770 right?

lol.. If you want to, i dont care.