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rickvanr
Oct 23, 2004, 10:41 AM
Hello
I'm not sure whether this is a software or hardware related problem, but here it is:

I have an old beige g3 desktop. My CD-Rom is not reading CDs when I am started up from the HD in OS 9, BUT I can start up using a OS 9 CD. It's making me very frustrated, anyone know what could be causing this problem? thanks

Blue Velvet
Oct 23, 2004, 10:47 AM
Could be an Extensions problem as it's booting from the CD thus bypassing the extensions/control panels on your system.

Extensions Manager would be the first place to look... the names of the extensions escape me but see if anything with CD in it's name is turned off.

rickvanr
Oct 23, 2004, 06:32 PM
the "Apple CD/DVD Driver" is turned on... oh, if this helps, the problem seem to have originated after I tried to put a DVD drive into the machine, took it out, and put the CD drive back in. I've also reinstalled OS 9 a few times. Still not working, I'm going to try one more time and then throw it out the window i think

Blue Velvet
Oct 23, 2004, 06:38 PM
Does the DVD drive work?

Did you change any of the jumper settings on the back of the CD drive?
You could experiment with those...

rickvanr
Oct 23, 2004, 06:45 PM
Does the DVD drive work?

Did you change any of the jumper settings on the back of the CD drive?
You could experiment with those...

DVD does work, pulled from my B&W. and booted OS9 from a CD, will not boot with Jaguar DVD tho, and wont display discs on the desktop. the jumper settings are set as master, as is the HD, but the CD drive was working before with these settings

Blue Velvet
Oct 23, 2004, 06:53 PM
No wonder you want to throw it out the window... does System Profiler see anything?

Don't toss it though. Somebody else will come along and give some good advice...

rickvanr
Oct 23, 2004, 06:58 PM
No wonder you want to throw it out the window... does System Profiler see anything?

Don't toss it though. Somebody else will come along and give some good advice...

System Profiler does not see it. It doesn't show up in the control strip cd thing either... both the CD and DVD drive can start up using the OS9 CD, but neither can read CDs when started up via the harddisk

Blue Velvet
Oct 23, 2004, 07:03 PM
When I once had an old beige clone, I remember swapping the ATA cables around so the CDrom was running off the former HDs bus and vice versa. Tried this? Or is it a SCSI drive?

If this doesn't work, I'll have to admit the extent of my total ignorance.

Sorry...

rickvanr
Oct 23, 2004, 10:29 PM
When I once had an old beige clone, I remember swapping the ATA cables around so the CDrom was running off the former HDs bus and vice versa. Tried this? Or is it a SCSI drive?

If this doesn't work, I'll have to admit the extent of my total ignorance.

Sorry...

I have thought of trying it, but didn't think it would make a difference. I'll try it and get back to you all...

Mechcozmo
Oct 23, 2004, 10:42 PM
DVD does work, pulled from my B&W. and booted OS9 from a CD, will not boot with Jaguar DVD tho, and wont display discs on the desktop. the jumper settings are set as master, as is the HD, but the CD drive was working before with these settings

Therein lies the problem. Two ATA drives on the same bus (cable) must be set as master or slave. Cable select just sets them according to their position on the cable, which won't matter with a CD or DVD drive but for a hard drive does. Let the hard drive be set as master and the CD drive as slave...that might help.

rickvanr
Oct 23, 2004, 11:07 PM
Therein lies the problem. Two ATA drives on the same bus (cable) must be set as master or slave. Cable select just sets them according to their position on the cable, which won't matter with a CD or DVD drive but for a hard drive does. Let the hard drive be set as master and the CD drive as slave...that might help.

no no no... maybe you misunderstood, they are on seperate buses. I may try putting them on the same bus though, but first im going to try the switch

Mechcozmo
Oct 23, 2004, 11:41 PM
no no no... maybe you misunderstood, they are on seperate buses. I may try putting them on the same bus though, but first im going to try the switch

Hmm. Odd. What happens when they are on the same bus?

If you cannot get the cable to fit just leave em sitting outside the box. They should be fine.

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 12:19 AM
Hmm. Odd. What happens when they are on the same bus?

If you cannot get the cable to fit just leave em sitting outside the box. They should be fine.

Switch and single bus showed no difference, still can only boot from CD... now, the HD will not boot into OS9... Just have the floppy with the blinking question mark... I'm beginning to think I have a lemon here

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 12:20 AM
on the bus: HD is set as master, with CD as slave... no difference, also tried HD as master with slave present, and CD as slave

Also, the HD is brand new, i bought it on friday

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 12:25 AM
Also, of note problems started after I tried to upgrade from os x.0 to os x.1, installation failed. Then I booted into OS 9 and tried to get onto my DSL model, macpoet said i was connected, but webpages would not load. Also, the ethernet card i installed in the pci card would not be recognized, even after installing the drive... Removing PCI cards did not solve any problems.... the only thing i can think to do next is maybe run the hardware test cd, but i dont know if i have one or were it would be

MacNut
Oct 24, 2004, 12:40 AM
How much bigger is the new HD, could it not be recognized by the os?

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 09:29 AM
How much bigger is the new HD, could it not be recognized by the os?

It's a 120 GB, but as I said before, starting up on it before was not a problem. I know about the 127 GB limit.

Blue Velvet
Oct 24, 2004, 09:45 AM
Are you now saying that your HD is not working now as well?

This G3 sounds cursed. Is it messing everything you try & connect to it?

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 12:53 PM
Are you now saying that your HD is not working now as well?

This G3 sounds cursed. Is it messing everything you try & connect to it?

Everything works fine when booted via OS9 CD... Sees everything...

It just wont start up via the HD anymore

Blue Velvet
Oct 24, 2004, 01:05 PM
Weird... I'm stumped.

How is the HD formatted. Just plain old HFS or HFS+ ?

It won't boot in 9 if it's journaled. Depending on how old the G3 is, it may not even like HFS+, although that's unlikely...

Clutching at straws, I'm afraid.

Mechcozmo
Oct 24, 2004, 01:48 PM
I heard that you cannot start off of a hard drive partition larger than 8GB or 7.4 actual GB. I don't recall if that applies to OS 9 however...

Try setting them to cable select. That way you are dead sure that the jumpers are not messed up.

And I am really :confused: on this one...

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 02:03 PM
Weird... I'm stumped.

How is the HD formatted. Just plain old HFS or HFS+ ?

It won't boot in 9 if it's journaled. Depending on how old the G3 is, it may not even like HFS+, although that's unlikely...

Clutching at straws, I'm afraid.

I'm stumped too. The HD was brand new, I just bought it on Friday. The HD is formatted whatever OS9 would format it as. I'm going to try and put the HD in another G3 (B&W) when I get it, probably this week or next.

EDIT: GOOD NEWS! I thought about trying to zap the pram... I'm not quite sure which button it was, but I starts up, AND sees the CD drive when I hold "option" as it starts up, not holding option has it not see the system foler. What could be causing this?

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 02:04 PM
I heard that you cannot start off of a hard drive partition larger than 8GB or 7.4 actual GB. I don't recall if that applies to OS 9 however...

Try setting them to cable select. That way you are dead sure that the jumpers are not messed up.

And I am really :confused: on this one...

I was under the impression this only applied to Mac OS X

See above post, i think its promising

Blue Velvet
Oct 24, 2004, 02:14 PM
EDIT: GOOD NEWS! I thought about trying to zap the pram... I'm not quite sure which button it was, but I starts up, AND sees the CD drive when I hold "option" as it starts up, not holding option has it not see the system foler. What could be causing this?

Maybe the system folder is not 'blessed' but... Yayy!

Blessing info here:
http://developer.apple.com/testing/docs/TNblessdebless.html

Zapping PRAM: It's something I've read about doing a million times, but never have done myself.

Gripping stuff, the saga continues...

:)

Keep us updated.

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 02:26 PM
Maybe the system folder is not 'blessed' but... Yayy!

Blessing info here:
http://developer.apple.com/testing/docs/TNblessdebless.html

Zapping PRAM: It's something I've read about doing a million times, but never have done myself.

Gripping stuff, the saga continues...

:)

Keep us updated.

The system folder has the happy mac icon on it, so I don't think its unblessed, but I will look into. How do you zap the PRAM on a Beige G3? And what does holding the option button do during a start up? I thought when zapping the PRAM you hear the start up chime 3 times or something?

Blue Velvet
Oct 24, 2004, 02:44 PM
The system folder has the happy mac icon on it, so I don't think its unblessed, but I will look into. How do you zap the PRAM on a Beige G3? And what does holding the option button do during a start up? I thought when zapping the PRAM you hear the start up chime 3 times or something?

Duhhh.. dunno.

Google: zap+PRAM+G3, I guess.

rickvanr
Oct 24, 2004, 03:58 PM
It seems to be working now... odd thing is, I didn't really do anything... I held the option key, which forces it to start up from the HD, thats what I read on a page atleast. Tried zapping the pram, but it didn't chime, so i dont know what happened there. Installed an ethernet card, still is not being recognized though, I'm going to update it to 9.2 and try that ethernet driver again.

I'm going to take it back to school with me and run it a bit up there, thanks for all the help... I'll be back if it starts acting up again.