Ann Counter attacked by "al Pieda"

[Thomas Veil]

Someone tried to pie Ann Counter yesterday. Unfortunately, they missed.

From The Smoking Gun (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1022042coulter1.html)

OCTOBER 22--Meet "Al Pieda" disciples Phillip Edgar Smith and William Zachary Wolff. The Tucson men, both 24, were arrested last night after throwing custard cream pies at author Ann Coulter during her speech at the University of Arizona. Portions of the pies connected with the conservative commentator's face and shoulder, according to this police report, which quotes Smith saying that he and Wolff were "throwing the pies at her ideas not at her." Cops also noted that a post-arrest search of the assailants turned up "pieces of paper (propaganda) involving Coulter's name and the explanation of 'Al Pieda.'"

iFilm has the video (http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2653684). Unfortunately, this one doesn't seem to work with Safari, so you'll have to use IE or Netscape.

Outside of Bill Gates, Dubya and Karl Rove, though, I can't think of a more appropriate victim.

[rainman::|:|]

Yeah, too bad they missed. And too bad it was only pies, and not, say, bullets.

paul

[Thomas Veil]

I hope you're kidding... :eek:

[MacFan26]

The only reason why she spoke at the U of A to begin with was because the college Republicans were crying about Michael Moore coming here. It's too bad those guys missed. For anyone that's interested she's going to be on Real Time with Bill Maher this Friday.

[Counterfit]

I hope you're kidding... :eek: Why? She's a stupid lying bitch, that's somehow manages to get lots of attention.


Say, that gives me an idea.... :D

[wdlove]

That type of action is wrong, its just not a polite thing to do to another human being. Adults are to act civily to another adult. This a very sad commentary on our society. :( :o

[MacDawg]

Freedom of speech apparently only applies to M. Moore and those of his persuasion :(

[MacFan26]

Freedom of speech apparently only applies to M. Moore and those of his persuasion :(
Sadly, the pie incident was nothing compared to the disrespect from students at the M. Moore speech. It happened on both sides.

[themadchemist]

That type of action is wrong, its just not a polite thing to do to another human being. Adults are to act civily to another adult. This a very sad commentary on our society. :( :o

Adults are also supposed to tell the truth, not misrepresent their own "research," have tolerance for each other's differences, and carry themselves with some scrap of moral dignity...Pies to the face for Coulter are perfectly justified.

Like Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter is an author whose books I routinely move to the Fiction section when I see them sitting in the Non-Fiction section of the bookstore.

I've attended a speech by this woman--The extent of malice, disingenuousness, and grotesque distaste for the poor, for minorities, and for non-Christians makes me physically sick. Anyone who doesn't fit her conservative, imperialist, wealthy, white, Protestant mold of "normal" is some circus freak worthy of disdain, slander, and utter hatred.

How repulsive.

[MacFan26]

Like Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter is an author whose books I routinely move to the Fiction section when I see them sitting in the Non-Fiction section of the bookstore.
nice :)

[LeeTom]

Oh come on... Pieing someone is FUNNY. What has this country come to? I'll tell you: a very NOT funny one, if you get lambasted for throwing a pie at someone. Has nothing to do with censorship. It's a prank. And a joke. And furthermore, if you GET pied, you should have the sense of humor to laugh it off, and not get all stupid like everyone that's gotten pied in the past. (Bill G... others)

EDIT: and about Ann Coulter: You can't say you're good at what you do if what you do is stupid.

Lee Tom

[leftbanke7]

The only reason why she spoke at the U of A to begin with was because the college Republicans were crying about Michael Moore coming here. It's too bad those guys missed. For anyone that's interested she's going to be on Real Time with Bill Maher this Friday.

Same thing here in Utah (aka Republican Land, USA). Utah Valley State College invited Michael Moore to speak and everybody lost their mind. A key donor threatened to stop his contributions to the school, students wanted the Student Counsel kicked out, the legislature threatened to lessen the amount of money given to the school and there is currently a lawsuit from that key donor and a member of the College Republicans against the Student Counsel. In an attempt to appease those opposed, the school invited Sean Hannety to come speak (well, after Sean found out that Michael was coming, he waved his $60,000 fee that he had quoted the school when approached earlier about speaking at the school). And the funny thing is that Sean Hannety's speech was free from disruptions but Michael Moore's was interrupted numerous times. It's not just us "crazy liberals" who act like a bunch of breying jackasses.

[rainman::|:|]

That type of action is wrong, its just not a polite thing to do to another human being. Adults are to act civily to another adult. This a very sad commentary on our society. :( :o

Oh bloody hell. You want polite? Go read her columns, where she calls for the death of people that don't agree with her. Then you can tell me about polite. Pieing someone is a "very sad commentary on our society"? What about a woman that calls all democrats traitors?

paul

[Dont Hurt Me]

She deserves a pie in the face, in fact two and i usually vote republican! ( not this time). She is an extreme far right wing zealot who has said things over the years on fox that show her true colors......she is on the edge of right wing insanity if you listen to her arrogant dogma. Only reason i dont change the channel is because she is blond.... :D anyone know a good blond joke?

[IJ Reilly]

That type of action is wrong, its just not a polite thing to do to another human being. Adults are to act civily to another adult. This a very sad commentary on our society. :( :o

This is the response to the pie-throwing incident, from the person you believe deserves respect:

A couple alleged males attempted to sucker punch a 100-pound woman and missed. And they ended up with their faces smashed in and spending the night in the Pima County Jail, where I'm sure -- being good liberals -- their views on gay marriage will serve them well.

Personally, I think she got her just desserts.

[blackfox]

Personally, I think she got her just desserts.
har-de-har-har...

Too bad it wasn't humble pie...

BTW, I am waiting for Mischief to chime in on this one...

[solvs]

Oh come on... Pieing someone is FUNNY. What has this country come to? I'll tell you: a very NOT funny one, if you get lambasted for throwing a pie at someone. Has nothing to do with censorship. It's a prank. And a joke. And furthermore, if you GET pied, you should have the sense of humor to laugh it off, and not get all stupid like everyone that's gotten pied in the past. (Bill G... others)
But those who get pied do so because they deserve it... and usually would not be laughing at themselves. That's the point. wdlove as a Christian you should read some of what Miss Coulter has to say. You should read Slander. Sadly, it has a lot in common with Mein Kampf. It is people like her that make Republicans and those who are religious look bad. Anyone who says an entire group of people deserve to be shot because they don't believe in the same thing you do, deserves at least a pie in the face. It makes a shiver run down my spine everytime I hear her say Liberal in such a derogatory, hate-filled way.

She might as well be saying Jew. (and I'm not even a Liberal, or Jewish)

EDIT: and about Ann Coulter: You can't say you're good at what you do if what you do is stupid.
I'll have to remember that. Fits her perfectly.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Its that either your with us or against us 3rd grade mentality of hers and the extremists in the republican party who have taken controle of the party.

[Thomas Veil]

She deserves a pie in the face, in fact two and i usually vote republican! ( not this time). She is an extreme far right wing zealot who has said things over the years on fox that show her true colors......she is on the edge of right wing insanity if you listen to her arrogant dogma.
True. I'm glad she's not a liberal, because I'd be so embarrassed to have her on my "team"...even if she is on the far end.

[IJ Reilly]

A few threads back I tried to find quotes from any '60s leftist that matched Coulter for their sheer radicalness. I looked up the likes of Malcolm X, Huey Newton... all the names I could remember from those days. I found lots of quotes, but none were anywhere close to as "out there" as the stuff you can hear Coulter uttering every day, and on national television, no less. And those people called themselves revolutionaries. So what does that make Coulter, I wonder?

[zimv20]

So what does that make Coulter, I wonder?
"Helter skelter!"

[rainman::|:|]

That type of action is wrong, its just not a polite thing to do to another human being. Adults are to act civily to another adult. This a very sad commentary on our society. :( :o

OK, I want a response at this point. Here's an excerpt from a recent interview with coulter...

John Hawkins: One of the many things you've said that really cheeses off liberals is,

"When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors".

Do you regret saying that?

Ann Coulter: Only that I didn't say it loud enough and in a large enough public forum. And when I said we should "execute" John Walker Lindh, I mis-spoke. What I meant to say was "We should burn John Walker Lindh alive and televise it on prime-time network TV". My apologies for any misunderstanding that might have occurred.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/coulteriffic.php

Read the rest, then explain your comments about politeness and humanity and civility. I'd like to know how you think pie throwing compares to her hatred.

paul

[LethalWolfe]

paulwhannel,

Just because someone condems the "attack" doesn't mean they are defending the target. I think you need to take a deep breath and re-read wdlove's post. He didn't say you shouldn't toss pies at Ann Coulter 'cause she's a nice lady who wouldn't hurt a fly. He just said you shouldn't toss pies at people.


Lethal

[pseudobrit]

paulwhannel,

Just because someone condems the "attack" doesn't mean they are defending the target. I think you need to take a deep breath and re-read wdlove's post. He didn't say you shouldn't toss pies at Ann Coulter 'cause she's a nice lady who wouldn't hurt a fly. He just said you shouldn't toss pies at people.


Lethal

I wonder how his majesty the Steveness would handle a pieing.

[MacFan26]

I wonder how his majesty the Steveness would handle a pieing.

I don't think he'd mind as long as it was apple.

:D

[Thomas Veil]

..."We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors".
Ya know, if you or I were to say that, we'd probably be investigated for a hate crime. Or captured with a butterfly net. One or the other.

The woman is certifiable.

[IJ Reilly]

Just because someone condems the "attack" doesn't mean they are defending the target. I think you need to take a deep breath and re-read wdlove's post. He didn't say you shouldn't toss pies at Ann Coulter 'cause she's a nice lady who wouldn't hurt a fly. He just said you shouldn't toss pies at people.

Well I don't know about that. I really don't know. I've been asking for a long time right here in these boards why the Republican establishment as a whole and party members as individuals haven't risen up in a chorus of condemnation of the right-wing hate mongers of which Coulter is just the leader of the pack at the moment. I listen carefully. And I listen again. Yet, I hear nothing, not a word.

A pie in the face is too good for Ann Coulter. She and her fellow demagogues should be hooted off every stage, and condemned from every quarter of American society. Whatever else we believe, we should all be equally uncomfortable living among the likes of Ann Coulter.

[rainman::|:|]

Well I don't know about that. I really don't know. I've been asking for a long time right here in these boards why the Republican establishment as a whole and party members as individuals haven't risen up in a chorus of condemnation of the right-wing hate mongers of which Coulter is just the leader of the pack at the moment. I listen carefully. And I listen again. Yet, I hear nothing, not a word.

Exactly. I have yet to find a republican that thinks she's any more sane than I do. I firmly believe she hurts the party. Republicans have very respectable ideas... smaller government, lower taxes, individual freedoms over government freedoms. Yet, these principals have been so warped over the past 20 years (and the past 4 in particular) that true conservatives should be outraged. I don't think mass executions of over half the Earth's population are in line with the GOP... and if it is, true conservatives should found their own party. If they don't intertwine it with religion, I'd join.

If wdlove is going to condemn people who would throw pies, as if it's some huge societal problem and an outrage, yet he speaks not a word to the person who's being targeted and her psychotic (and dangerous) ways... That's defending her. Or at least giving enough of the appearance that he should have realized it.

paul

[wdlove]

Adults are also supposed to tell the truth, not misrepresent their own "research," have tolerance for each other's differences, and carry themselves with some scrap of moral dignity...Pies to the face for Coulter are perfectly justified.

Like Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter is an author whose books I routinely move to the Fiction section when I see them sitting in the Non-Fiction section of the bookstore.

I've attended a speech by this woman--The extent of malice, disingenuousness, and grotesque distaste for the poor, for minorities, and for non-Christians makes me physically sick. Anyone who doesn't fit her conservative, imperialist, wealthy, white, Protestant mold of "normal" is some circus freak worthy of disdain, slander, and utter hatred.

How repulsive.

I'm very saddened by your comment.

[IJ Reilly]

Case closed then, I guess. I could argue my point for days and not make it as well as you have.

[LethalWolfe]

IJ Reilly to address your 2nd to last post,

I try to stay away from infotainment (especially political infotainment) no matter which side of the isle it's coming from. All it does is generally piss me off. Occasionally something intelligent might slip out, but for the most part it's about ratings and/or book/ticket sales, IMO. I can't speak for others but you won't see me calling for liberal/conservative nutball heads' 'cause I don't waste time paying attention to them to begin with.

Speaking in generalities people on any side of the political spectrum<sp?> will be more critical of the "outspoken" on the other side and more accepting/apologetic (willfully ignorant?) of the extremists in their own camp. A little bit of "tell me what I want to hear" will go a long way buying acceptence. The problem resides in human nature, not political affiliation.


paulwhannel,

I guess I'm guilty of giving people the bennifit of the doubt. I'm not trying to speak for anyone but myself here, but If someone tossed pies at Moore I would say that's a childish and uncalled for thing to do. And I would in no way, shape, or form be defending Moore.


Lethal

[LethalWolfe]

IJ Reilly to address your 2nd to last post,

I try to stay away from infotainment (especially political infotainment) no matter which side of the isle it's coming from. All it does is generally piss me off. Occasionally something intelligent might slip out, but for the most part it's about ratings and/or book/ticket sales, IMO. I can't speak for others but you won't see me calling for liberal/conservative nutball heads' 'cause I don't waste time paying attention to them to begin with.

Speaking in generalities people on any side of the political spectrum<sp?> will be more critical of the "outspoken" on the other side and more accepting/apologetic (willfully ignorant?) of the extremists in their own camp. A little bit of "tell me what I want to hear" will go a long way buying acceptence. The problem resides in human nature, not political affiliation.


paulwhannel,

I guess I'm guilty of giving people the bennifit of the doubt. I'm not trying to speak for anyone but myself here, but If someone tossed pies at Moore I would say that's a childish and uncalled for thing to do. And I would in no way, shape, or form be defending Moore.


Lethal

[IJ Reilly]

IJ Reilly to address your 2nd to last post,

I try to stay away from infotainment (especially political infotainment) no matter which side of the isle it's coming from. All it does is generally piss me off. Occasionally something intelligent might slip out, but for the most part it's about ratings and/or book/ticket sales, IMO. I can't speak for others but you won't see me calling for liberal/conservative nutball heads' 'cause I don't waste time paying attention to them to begin with.

Speaking in generalities people on any side of the political spectrum<sp?> will be more critical of the "outspoken" on the other side and more accepting/apologetic (willfully ignorant?) of the extremists in their own camp. A little bit of "tell me what I want to hear" will go a long way buying acceptence. The problem resides in human nature, not political affiliation.

I don't think this is entirely true; at least it isn't as far as I'm concerned. I mainly approve of what Michael Moore has to say, but that hasn't stopped me from being critical of him when I thought he went over the line -- and he has never gone anywhere close to as far over that line as Ann Coulter does on a daily basis. If he did, then I'd want to disassociate myself with his views, even if I still agreed with him some of the time. This is not difficult stuff, if you have any personal standards of integrity.

I think this situation is "political" to the extent that today, conservatives seem to believe that they have won the ideology and culture war, are now entitled to consolidate this victory into a permanent state of being. What I'm seeing now is the playing out of the concept that if making the conservative revolution permanent takes a bit of knocking heads, then so be it -- we will avert our eyes ever so much.

[themadchemist]

I'm very saddened by your comment.

I hope you're saddened by Ms. Coulter's uncouthness, as opposed to my frustration with her.

[Roger1]

I tend to agree with wdlove on this one. Pieing someone isn't very nice. If someone pied me, I would see what criminal penalties could be applied to them (unless it was a friend playing a joke. Then I'd kick their ass).

[IJ Reilly]

So, if somebody was not "nice" to you, you'd either have them arrested or kick their butt?

Talk about political correctness.

[Roger1]

No, if they hit me with a pie, I'd have them arrested. The kick butt part was reserved for friends, and I was kidding about it. Please reread my post a little more carefully :rolleyes:

[IJ Reilly]

My response precisely responded to the two potential options you stated. Perhaps you should read my posts more carefully.

Anyway, your argument is yet another perfect example of political correctness, conservative style.

[Roger1]

Considering I'm a liberal, I find that very amusing.

edit: I have read your posts. You keep insisting on advocating violence against someone who has a different opinion than what you have, where my comment about butt kicking was a misplaced attempt at humor.

[IJ Reilly]

Ya got me on that one, for sure. ;)

[Roger1]

:D

[Roger1]

BTW, I've read some of her stuff at her website (I try to pull info from both sides). I don't like her opinions either.

[LethalWolfe]

I don't think this is entirely true; at least it isn't as far as I'm concerned.
I agree it's not entirely true. My previous statements were said as generalities not absolutes.

I think this situation is "political" to the extent that today, conservatives seem to believe that they have won the ideology and culture war, are now entitled to consolidate this victory into a permanent state of being. What I'm seeing now is the playing out of the concept that if making the conservative revolution permanent takes a bit of knocking heads, then so be it -- we will avert our eyes ever so much.

I agree that the situation we are discussing is political, but what I was refering to was the underlying, motivating factor of this situation resides in human nature and can be seen in many aspects of social interaction including, but not limited to, politics.

Getting to something more specific, such as the topic at hand, I think the polarization of the country has "raised" the tolerence bar in regards to what the nutballs say and "win or lose" has over shadowed "solve the problem" in terms of importance (again, speaking in generalities). It's almost as if you speak out against your respective nutball(s) you might be seen as defending the opposition, get labeled a "traitor" (bit of loaded term right now, eh?) to your party and get kicked out (figuratively speaking of course). So you aren't good enough for your own party, you really don't agree w/the other party, so now you are a man w/o a country (so to speak). If you question Bush you must be a "Kerry lover" and if you question Kerry you must be a "Bush Lover."
It's like the grey area is completely gone. You are either for all for one team or all for the other. There is no middle ground.

Where as in a less polarized, less tense era of American politics raising questions like that might have prompted a nice discussion instead of a knee-jerk, emotional reaction.

Of course, my local situation influences my perception of what's going on differently than your local situation influences yours. I'm a moderate conservative living in LA (yay for me). I avoid political discussion at almost any cost because 90% of my peer group would dog me to no end if I said Kerry was anything short of God's gift to the country. Okay, mild exageration but I do question the relationships I would have w/90% of my co-workers if they found out I call myself a republican. Of course, I'm also usually too liberal for the "real" republicans so I take it coming and going and I just try to avoid political discussions period. There is so much hatred, and bile, and negative emotion surrounding this election it's almost overwhelming. And I know it's gonna stick around well past eleciton day

Well, this turned more into a rant than an OT discussion. Oh well. A server glitch will probably eat my post anyway. ;)


Lethal

[solvs]

advocating violence against someone who has a different opinion than what you have.
Violence? No. Pie? Yes. It's not meant to hurt, only humiliate. Like when they did it to Gates. It is an attempt to knock someone down a peg when they need to be knocked down a peg. Most of the time it is well deserved. If it were a weapon, I would have an issue with it. Even against a hate-monger like her. If it's a pastry, it's kinda funny. If anyone deserves it, it would be her. And maybe Gates again.

For the record, I think it would be funny if Moore got hit with a pie too. Knowing him, he'd probably think it was funny just as well. Though he might not. Either way, it would still be funny.

THEY ARE ONLY PIES PEOPLE!

[MacFan26]

One of the guys that threw the pie was interviewed on a local station here. He said that they were trying to do something that was humorous, while sending a message. He said that if someone calls throwing a pie an "attack" and killing innocent people in Iraq "collateral damage," there's a serious problem in our culture.

[IJ Reilly]

Lethal,

I think what you're saying is, some if not many people prize party loyalty over intellectual honesty. To be brutally honest, I have no sympathy for such people. They are the ones who choose to park their brains at the curb in order to remain in the good graces of their parties, and it is they who make dangerous ideologues like Coulter possible. People like her get nowhere in the world without (as my current sig says), the indifference of the majority. I am not indifferent to Coulter or her ilk no matter their political orientation, and perhaps I am naive enough to believe that this lack of indifference should transcend party lines. Maybe that is something people of good will could agree upon in this fractious political environment. The fact that it doesn't is what I am noting here. Some of the leading spokespeople for the Right today are committing intellectual homicide, but nobody on their side dares say a word against them. The indifference of the majority: this is where moral corruption begins.

[Roger1]

Violence? No. Pie? Yes. It's not meant to hurt, only humiliate. Like when they did it to Gates. It is an attempt to knock someone down a peg when they need to be knocked down a peg. Most of the time it is well deserved. If it were a weapon, I would have an issue with it. Even against a hate-monger like her. If it's a pastry, it's kinda funny. If anyone deserves it, it would be her. And maybe Gates again.

For the record, I think it would be funny if Moore got hit with a pie too. Knowing him, he'd probably think it was funny just as well. Though he might not. Either way, it would still be funny.
THEY ARE ONLY PIES PEOPLE!

I disagree. In a situation like this, whether its a pie or a rock, it's still physically attacking someone. Which I disagree with.

[skunk]

I'm with Solvs on this one. People who preach lies and hatred need to be humiliated, and as often as possible.

[solvs]

I disagree. In a situation like this, whether its a pie or a rock, it's still physically attacking someone. Which I disagree with.
I'd rather be hit with a pie as a joke, than hit with a rock as an act of hatred. ;)

Especially if I made a career out of spewing hate. She should feel lucky it wasn't worse. Hate goes both ways. And that actually would have been sad. An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind. Those who are against her, should be better than her, and promote peace. That's why it was effective, and her reaction hypocritical.

I fully support fighting hate and corruption with laughter and well deserved humilation. I think that was a good way to do it since honesty and education don't seem to be working.

[Counterfit]

I think it's time to make a pie-ball gun ;)

[pseudobrit]

I think it's time to make a pie-ball gun ;)

Awesome. She wouldn't know whether to be offended or protect your right to bear pies.

[themadchemist]

Awesome. She wouldn't know whether to be offended or protect your right to bear pies.

get your head in the game--only conservatives have rights.

[skunk]

bear pies.
Mmmm! Bear pies! ;)

[LethalWolfe]

Lethal,

I think what you're saying is, some if not many people prize party loyalty over intellectual honesty. To be brutally honest, I have no sympathy for such people. They are the ones who choose to park their brains at the curb in order to remain in the good graces of their parties, and it is they who make dangerous ideologues like Coulter possible. People like her get nowhere in the world without (as my current sig says), the indifference of the majority. I am not indifferent to Coulter or her ilk no matter their political orientation, and perhaps I am naive enough to believe that this lack of indifference should transcend party lines. Maybe that is something people of good will could agree upon in this fractious political environment. The fact that it doesn't is what I am noting here. Some of the leading spokespeople for the Right today are committing intellectual homicide, but nobody on their side dares say a word against them. The indifference of the majority: this is where moral corruption begins.

We are using different language, but I believe we are saying the same thing. I suppose this means we agree on something. :eek: ;)

I think much of the problem resides in something as simple as conformity.
"Be a team player."
"Don't rock the boat."
"Do as you're told."

As a society we are so programmed to "fit in" and "be normal" that even though an individual might disagree w/the group the individual might not speak up (even if the individual is 100% positive the group is wrong). And the larger the group the less likely it is that the individual will speak up. The desire to think for yourself, think critically, and question authority basically gets beat out of us (generally speaking of course).


I'm not offering this up as any sort of excuse, I'm just offering my opinion as to why it happens.


Lethal

[IJ Reilly]

We are using different language, but I believe we are saying the same thing. I suppose this means we agree on something.

It's been known to happen. ;)

Possibly because I've been personally "party free" for so long, I fail to understand why anyone would allow their "brand loyalty" to get in the way of such basic human issues. As you say, normalized behavior is a powerful force, and some amount of it is to be expected. But whenever I see too much of it, as I do now, I can also hear the distant stomping of jackboots. The GOP is harboring some really dangerous people within in its midst. Either the party will pay the price, or everyone else will.

[mactastic]

Pieing Moore might not work as well as you might think. He looks like he wouldn't mind trying to squeeze in a snack between meals. :D

As for pieing in general, I can't really condone it, as it is an assault on a person, but you end up looking like such a chump if you put up a big stink about taking a pie on the chin. Imagine if Arnold had cried like a baby and made homosexual cracks about the person who hit him with an egg during his campaign. At least he had the class to just shake it off and keep going. Getting publicly pied is like getting lampooned on SNL. It's only bad for you if you whine about it.