Mac Pro Updates - What do you want? [Archive]

Cavepainter

Jun 25, 2010, 09:12 PM

1. Make it fast. Speed sells. The entry level Mac Pro should spank anything else Apple offers, hands down, just as a megabuck Corvette should eat any Camaro. Period. Hence the big price tag. Otherwise, many of us will just buy an i7 or a loaded, used Mac Pro.

2. Keep the easily upgradeable case (or have another similarly functional design) I don't really worry about how pretty it is. (Apple will see to that anyway, to be sure) And I dont wanna wait another six months just so they can make a new pretty case. Function over form for pro users.

3. Keep the multiple hard drive bays. Definitely. Dealbreaker if it has less.

4. esata on the back, and usb 3 as well. Plenty of ports, and plenty of possibilities. And I would prefer something other than the now standard mini headphone jacks. They suck. Mine constantly is loose or has issues.

5. Make it relatively quiet.

6. Reliability is paramount.

7. Lastly, and very importantly, same entry level price. The bottom end Pro should be around the performance of the former line's middle of the road model and no more expensive than previous entry models. Otherwise, why bother?

ClivePwned

Jun 25, 2010, 09:17 PM

The apple website to say "New 2010 mac pro- shipping now"

Sun Baked

Jun 25, 2010, 09:26 PM

Don't see what else you can expect other than a new 6-core CPU and a new GPU?

Especially since the new chipset won't show for another year yet.

I suppose Apple can finally update to 10 Gigabit Ethernet since Broadcom is now showing 40 Gigabit solutions.

Repo

Jun 25, 2010, 09:32 PM

I suppose Apple can finally update to 10 Gigabit Ethernet since Broadcom is now showing 40 Gigabit solutions.

I lol'd. But in all seriousness, we might see the beginning of consumer fiber. It's already been successfully tested on a Mac Pro.

diazj3

Jun 25, 2010, 09:35 PM

I wish for these speculative threads to stop... and that suddenly one sunny morning we woke up to a new Mac Pro, and everybody was happy about it - nobody complains about redundant things, like the lack of blue ray, etc.... I wish the new Mac Pro somehow brings peace to earth... :p

Just kidding! but seriously dude, stop torturing yourself about it. Plus, there are already multiple threads that are way ahead of you in beating this particular dead horse.

cheers!

Roman23

Jun 25, 2010, 09:50 PM

I'd like the Mac Pro to be more affordable than previous.. Its a computer, not a roles royce. 2ndly, USB 4.0 would be a nice thing to add.. Light peak through PCIE card.

Ravich

Jun 25, 2010, 09:54 PM

I want people to stop making "we dont need this thread" posts.

Also:
-Lightpeak
-USB3
-Hexacores
-6 RAM slots
-Add a couple of 2.5'' HDD bays

You know, nothing big.

jwire4

Jun 25, 2010, 10:37 PM

1. Option for a built in, affordable SSD. Having it come pre- installed is a nice luxury!

2.Take advantage of all the cores. Re-Write Final Cut Express and Pro to take advantage of all 4 or 8 core.

3. Bring a somewhat new design out. The current design is nice, but I'd like a new look.

4. Built in Wifi. This is as simple as it gets.

5.Bringing back Dual DVI. I'm just not a fan of Mini Display. Bringing back the old Dual DVI would be much more convient.

6.An overall better product. The interior of the Mac Pro is a definite keeper. Nothing like it anywhere else!

7. Most importantly, take care of you pro customers. When someone orders a Mac Pro, you should really make it higher priority than a Mac Mini or Macbook. We're giving you tons of are hard earned money!

Sbowen67

Jun 25, 2010, 10:49 PM

[QUOTE=Ravich;10338207]I want people to stop making "we dont need this thread" posts.

Agreed... MacRumors Forum is full of post police! Get's on my nerves.

strausd

Jun 26, 2010, 12:30 AM

Don't see what else you can expect other than a new 6-core CPU and a new GPU?

New case design. Chances are they won't do anything major, but it is likely they will at least add a black Apple logo and possibly sleek it out a bit while keeping at least the same functionality.

I want people to stop making "we dont need this thread" posts.

Also:
-Lightpeak
-USB3
-Hexacores
-6 RAM slots
-Add a couple of 2.5'' HDD bays

You know, nothing big.

Lightpeak won't happen and people need to realize that. It's too new for Apple. And as for USB 3.0, that is probably still too new for Apple as well, but still more likely than the .0001% chance of lightpeak.

Hexacores, obviously. I take it you mean 6 RAM slots each CPU considering the dual CPU MP has more than 6 RAM slots. And I agree, that would be nice and would crank up the max amount of RAM for the MP up to 48GB if they stick with 4GB modules. If they decide to start officially supporting 8GB modules then the max RAM would be up to 96GB, insane.

As for 2.5" bays, I would love that. I think instead of having only one option in the second optical bay, they should make an option to put either a superdrive there or a harddrive. There are things out there now that let you put 2 drives in the empty optical bay. If they made one of those and made it an option, I would no doubt pay the extra $$ for that.

2.Take advantage of all the cores. Re-Write Final Cut Express and Pro to take advantage of all 4 or 8 core.

3. Bring a somewhat new design out. The current design is nice, but I'd like a new look.

4. Built in Wifi. This is as simple as it gets.

5.Bringing back Dual DVI. I'm just not a fan of Mini Display. Bringing back the old Dual DVI would be much more convient.

6.An overall better product. The interior of the Mac Pro is a definite keeper. Nothing like it anywhere else!

7. Most importantly, take care of you pro customers. When someone orders a Mac Pro, you should really make it higher priority than a Mac Mini or Macbook. We're giving you tons of are hard earned money!

Definitely agree with taking advantage of all the cores. When they put dual six-core CPUs in the Mac Pro with hyper threading, they need their applications to be able to completely utilize their product.

Like I said before, if they do a case redesign, the main things I could see them doing is a black Apple logo and to just sleek it out a bit without losing anything.

I would absolutely love built-in wifi. I plan on getting this 2010 MP when it comes out. My goal is to have 3 monitors and hook it up to my tv as well. I will be doing a lot of 3D rendering and possibly some gaming. And some rendering engines are able to take the GPU to help it out a bit. Also, I will be doing a lot of boot camp and want good GPU performance. With 4 displays hooked up, I will need at least 2 GPUs. If the second one is one of their high end ones that is a little bigger, it will cover a PCI slot. If this happens and they don't do built-in wifi, then after getting an airport card I will be out of slots, definitely not ideal.

I do not like the idea of 2 dual link DVI ports. I currently have a 24" Apple LED display. There is no Apple supported connector to plug that into a DVI port. However, there is an Apple supported connector for MDP to DVI. Sure, there might be some third-party adapters (I'm not quite sure) but I feel much more comfortable with one that Apple makes. I would even feel fine using a non-Apple connector for MDP to DVI because Apple has made them just like that, and not DVI to MDP. Maybe its just me, but I would just feel more comfortable that way.

The interior of the MP is amazing. It is extremely organized and very easy to upgrade. They definitely need to keep the same functionality with that.

And I agree that they should indeed take care of their prosumers. Those machines cost a lot of money and are needed by many people to make money. They should really think a little more about people who spend so much money on their products and depend on it for a living.

oban14

Jun 26, 2010, 12:59 AM

blu ray
6g sata
more HD slots

oban14

Jun 26, 2010, 01:01 AM

I don't need a new design, though I'd be fine with one if it were just as functional or more functional. The current design is a big reason the Mac Pro can stay so cool while being so quiet.

Apple can let their designers ruin functionality in the consumer stuff *cough* iPhone 4 *cough* through design, but I frankly don't care what the Mac Pro looks like so long as it's quiet, cool, and easy to work with.

gaspra

Jun 26, 2010, 02:55 AM

I don't need a new design, though I'd be fine with one if it were just as functional or more functional. The current design is a big reason the Mac Pro can stay so cool while being so quiet.

Well, would be nice to bring back optional liquid cooling for both CPU and graphic card. Not to mention dual Quad-core (low end) or dual hex-core (high end) configurations. Also add workstation graphic cards as options. Seriously, don't use crap GT120 anymore, it's mac pro, not macbook pro.

chedda

Jun 26, 2010, 04:18 AM

I have tried fathoming out the probabilities for the next mac pro. Surely the longer we wait the chances are for a better machine. I cannot see it being a quiet upgrade anymore. Surely after so long it will get a special event. I can see this happening with autocad and 3D studio being showcased.Apple need to secure the Pro market.The line up will be simple 6 or 12 (2 versions) core new BTO ati card, 6 ram slots plus esata and usb 3.The case will remain.

The Mac Pro case is Iconic.At it's G5 launch it looked like the 2001 space odyssey obelisk.It still looks like it has sat somewhere on a distant planet for millions of years. It's timeless.

Deepshade

Jun 26, 2010, 04:29 AM

Something new to ship before my budget a gets reallocated. We've been caught before buying end of line with the G5s so there's no way I can purchase the current 'New' (almost) year and a half old MPs.

If no new machines arrive shortly thats it.

ValSalva

Jun 26, 2010, 06:45 AM

blu ray
6g sata
more HD slots

I second the SATA-6 wish. SSDs are going to get very fast in the next few years saturating the SATA-3 bus.

It's too soon for lightpeak. For some reason I don't think Apple is too hot on USB3 and will implement lightpeak when it's available, probably in 2011.

chedda

Jun 26, 2010, 06:52 AM

Is there any super slim chance that apple and intel are working on something specific for the next mac pro ? like they did with the air ?

Hellhammer

Jun 26, 2010, 07:02 AM

Is there any super slim chance that apple and intel are working on something specific for the next mac pro ? like they did with the air ?

P7500 wasn't that custom chip, just underclocked so it was suitable for MBA. iMacs used to use customs CPUs but they weren't so different, just cooler than desktop versions and hotter than mobile versions so in the end, it was just cheaper to use them instead of mobile chips.

What you mean by Mac Pro only? Only reason Intel has made specific chips for Macs were because they were not able to offer something which was suitable for it in terms of power consumption, they aren't that different. Mac Pro has no issues with wattage so there is no reason to come up with MP specific CPUs.

chedda

Jun 26, 2010, 07:14 AM

P7500 wasn't that custom chip, just underclocked so it was suitable for MBA. iMacs used to use customs CPUs but they weren't so different, just cooler than desktop versions and hotter than mobile versions so in the end, it was just cheaper to use them instead of mobile chips.

What you mean by Mac Pro only? Only reason Intel has made specific chips for Macs were because they were not able to offer something which was suitable for it in terms of power consumption, they aren't that different. Mac Pro has no issues with wattage so there is no reason to come up with MP specific CPUs.

Okay i suppose there is no specific need apart from wanting to be THE fastest workstation as a boasting point. I do a lot of 3D rendering and i often visit benchwell i see a 4x6 opteron is winning. Just how loyal is apple to ibm,intel or AMD ? Or could we see a super high end 4x6 intel version ?

Umbongo

Jun 26, 2010, 07:25 AM

Hellhammer

Jun 26, 2010, 07:25 AM

Okay i suppose there is no specific need apart from wanting to be THE fastest workstation as a boasting point. I do a lot of 3D rendering and i often visit benchwell i see a 4x6 opteron is winning. Just how loyal is apple to ibm,intel or AMD ? Or could we see a super high end 4x6 intel version ?

As far as I know, Westmere only support dual CPU configurations so quad CPU Mac Pro would require Becton (has 4xQPI) to be used and that's 3700$ per chip so you would be looking at $25k Mac Pro. AMD Opteron seems to support quad CPU configuration though. Apple doesn't seem to be into super or extreme computers though :cool:

seclusion

Jun 26, 2010, 07:28 AM

Universal 2.5" and or 3.5" bay.
Imagine sliding out the tray, putting in 2, SSD 2.5" and rock!
I'm guessing a case update is coming, that's why were waiting.

chedda

Jun 26, 2010, 07:31 AM

As far as I know, Westmere only support dual CPU configurations so quad CPU Mac Pro would require Becton (has 4xQPI) to be used and that's 3700$ per chip so you would be looking at $25k Mac Pro. AMD Opteron seems to support quad CPU configuration though. Apple doesn't seem to be into super or extreme computers though :cool:

I think we can safely say it will launch with a new 30" ACD so a special event is becoming more likely ? (i am hopelessly looking for hope) Maybe the next mac pros will be open cl focused ? Just like cuda is becoming an option ?

Hellhammer

Jun 26, 2010, 07:36 AM

I think we can safely say it will launch with a new 30" ACD so a special event is becoming more likely ? (i am hopelessly looking for hope)

Doubt it. 27" iMac was a silent update. So was 24" ACD. And Arrandale MBPs. Plus redesigned unibody Mini. Last Mac update that wasn't silent was in last year's WWDC when MBPs were updated. Mac Pro has too small market to deserve a media event, or even press release. It seems to be that Macs are only getting silent updates and Apple is keeping media's spotlight on iToys

Of course it's possible but I'm not betting my money on that

thermodynamic

Jun 26, 2010, 07:41 AM

What kind of new features do you guys want for the new 2010 Mac Pro? Just wondering other peoples' opinions. :)

A decent video card.

oilfighter

Jun 26, 2010, 10:26 AM

What kind of new features do you guys want for the new 2010 Mac Pro? Just wondering other peoples' opinions. :)

back to the original topic.

I would like to see a cheaper Mac Pro. the i7 on the iMac is plenty for me, but I can't be the only person out there that wants a stand along computer so I can hook up my own (Non glossy) monitor and be able to upgrade hard drives. I'm a photographer and shoot RAW, both the monitor selection and HD space is very important to me. So I'm willing to sacrifice some performance for cheaper price tag.

Umbongo

Jun 26, 2010, 10:44 AM

back to the original topic.

I would like to see a cheaper Mac Pro. the i7 on the iMac is plenty for me, but I can't be the only person out there that wants a stand along computer so I can hook up my own (Non glossy) monitor and be able to upgrade hard drives. I'm a photographer and shoot RAW, both the monitor selection and HD space is very important to me. So I'm willing to sacrifice some performance for cheaper price tag.

There isn't any performance to sacrifice though. What there is to sacrifice is that 50%+ margin Apple had.

Hellhammer

Jun 26, 2010, 10:49 AM

There isn't any performance to sacrifice though. What there is to sacrifice is that 50%+ margin Apple had.

Exactly. The W3520 which is used in low-end Mac Pro costs as much as i7 in iMac (284$). UP versions cost the same as non server counterparts, only DP versions cost more due dual QPI and lower TDP. Apple just loves the profit

strausd

Jun 26, 2010, 05:35 PM

Well, would be nice to bring back optional liquid cooling for both CPU and graphic card. Not to mention dual Quad-core (low end) or dual hex-core (high end) configurations. Also add workstation graphic cards as options. Seriously, don't use crap GT120 anymore, it's mac pro, not macbook pro.

I seriously doubt they will have the option for liquid cooling. The MPs get good ventilation already and you would really only make the best use out of liquid cooling with over-clocking.

They will for sure have a 6-core and 12-core option. I don't think they would also have a quad-core low end option along with a 8-core option. Do you really think that Apple would put that many options on their MP? Too many people would start saying "well is the 6-core really that much better than the quad? And is the 8-core really that much better than the 6-core? And is the 12-core really that much better than the 8-core?" I just don't think Apple would give that many options. Doesn't seem like their style.

I cannot see it being a quiet upgrade anymore. Surely after so long it will get a special event. I can see this happening with autocad and 3D studio being showcased.Apple need to secure the Pro market.The line up will be simple 6 or 12 (2 versions) core new BTO ati card, 6 ram slots plus esata and usb 3.The case will remain.

I disagree about the event for the MP. If all they do is update the MP then I do not think they will have an event just for that. It has been so long since their last even just for a computer update, why would they start now? However, if they also come out with new FCP that can utilize all possible cores and update the XServe as well, then I could see them doing an event, but not one solely for the MP. Also, they need to update the MBA, so if theres a big event, that will probably be included too.

I agree that the line up will be simple. I do not think they will have an 8-core option and theres a good chance they won't even have a cheap quad-core option. They will probably just swap out a quad-core for a hexa-core.

I'm hoping their high end GPU will be at least an ATI Radeon HD 5870, however, I would LOVE to have a 5970, but that doesn't seem too likely. By 6 RAM slots, I'm guessing you mean 6 per CPU, so 12 slots for dual CPU option. That too would be amazing, but doesn't seem too likely. That would crank up the max RAM quite a bit, which would be nice.

eSATA just seems like wishful thinking. That doesn't seem like a big possibility for them. But then again, you are speculation eSATA just like I'm speculating no eSATA, so who knows. As for USB 3.0, it seems a little new for Apple. I mean, they just now put in HDMI, and thats only on their mini! I could see them going for FW 1600 before USB 3.0, they just seem to like the whole FW thing a little more.

The case, ehh, who knows. All of their desktops along with their 24" LED display now have the black Apple logo on it. If they do anything with the case, they will at least add a black Apple logo on it.

I would love for them to add an option for an extra 3.5" or 2.5" bay in the second optical bay. I don't really have a need for 2 superdrives, but would love an extra play for a harddrive. I also think more people would be able to make good use out of this compared to a second superdrive.

I second the SATA-6 wish. SSDs are going to get very fast in the next few years saturating the SATA-3 bus.

It's too soon for lightpeak. For some reason I don't think Apple is too hot on USB3 and will implement lightpeak when it's available, probably in 2011.

Definitely agree with you on this one. Apple seems to like SSDs a lot, they talked real highly of them when they were first put in their computers with the MBA. They really like how fast it is and that it has no moving parts. And with the increase in popularity and speed of SSDs, SATA II won't be able to fully handle what is capable of SSDs.

I also agree with you on lightpeak and USB 3.0. I think both are a little new for Apple, they don't really seem to jump on the bandwagon and follow everyone else.

rhett7660

Jun 27, 2010, 08:07 AM

I second the SATA-6 wish. SSDs are going to get very fast in the next few years saturating the SATA-3 bus.

It's too soon for lightpeak. For some reason I don't think Apple is too hot on USB3 and will implement lightpeak when it's available, probably in 2011.

I agree with the SSD's also. I want them and want them now (of course at a lower price point!)

I don't want them to change the case to much if they do decide to change it. I love the look.

kevink2

Jun 27, 2010, 08:47 AM

At least I'm not in the boat of those waiting for an upgraded Mac Pro because they need to buy, and don't want to buy a current model 1 month before an improved model came out.

I went with the Pro 2 years ago because I wanted "future proofing", buying more than I need for the expansion capabilities. And back then you pretty much couldn't get an Apple otherwise that supported more than 4GB of RAM. Or more than 2 cores. Except for the Pro.

Still, generally, for my home usage, I don't use more than a couple cores, nor most of my 14GB of RAM, but it is there if needed.

But I still have more headroom than even a top of the like iMac.

strausd

Jun 27, 2010, 02:22 PM

I don't want them to change the case to much if they do decide to change it. I love the look.

Definitely agree on that. Wouldn't mind a black apple logo tho. But if they decide to change the case, I would like it to stay relatively the same and keep the same functionality or get better, of course.

nanofrog

Jun 27, 2010, 02:47 PM

I seriously doubt they will have the option for liquid cooling.
Given what happened with the liquid cooled G5 systems, I doubt they'd be willing to take that route again if at all possible. For the Hex core parts, they definitely won't, as they'll re-use the existing system boards with a firmware update (add in the necessary microcode to make them work).

I don't think they would also have a quad-core low end option along with a 8-core option.
There's only 1x Hex core part that can be used in the SP systems, which is the W3680. It's expensive ($999 is the quantity pricing that's been published). So to have lower cost models to fill the area, they'll have to stick with 35xx parts (there are a couple of new ones out that offer higher clocks that can be substituted for the existing low and mid points; W3530 and W3550 respectively).

As per the DP parts, they'll all be 56xx, but not all of them are Hex core (and those that are, aren't cheap). There's not enough Hex core parts in the cost ranges needed to make all the DP systems Dodeca core, so there will be Octads as well to fill out the line.

I'm hoping their high end GPU will be at least an ATI Radeon HD 5870, however, I would LOVE to have a 5970, but that doesn't seem too likely. By 6 RAM slots, I'm guessing you mean 6 per CPU, so 12 slots for dual CPU option. That too would be amazing, but doesn't seem too likely. That would crank up the max RAM quite a bit, which would be nice.
The base graphics card is likely going to be a GT220, and the high end would be the HD5870. A high end nVidia product would be by a 3rd party as it was with EVGA producing the GTX285.

eSATA just seems like wishful thinking. That doesn't seem like a big possibility for them. But then again, you are speculation eSATA just like I'm speculating no eSATA, so who knows. As for USB 3.0, it seems a little new for Apple. I mean, they just now put in HDMI, and thats only on their mini! I could see them going for FW 1600 before USB 3.0, they just seem to like the whole FW thing a little more.
The same boards in the 2009 systems will be used in the 2010 systems for cost reasons (Intel designs their chipsets to work with both parts released on an architecture within a Tick Tock cycle so vendors can reduce their costs). This isn't out of pure generosity, but rather saves them time and money, and even makes a product line more attractive as well (i.e. boards can be used with 2 different processor series, as it shares the same socket and chipset).

What this means for the 2010 systems, is there will be NO:

USB 3.0
FW 1600
LightPeak
SATA 6.0Gb/s
Additional DIMM slots

I also agree with you on lightpeak and USB 3.0. I think both are a little new for Apple, they don't really seem to jump on the bandwagon and follow everyone else.
LightPeak isn't even ready yet (look for it in 2011). USB 3.0 won't show up until Intel places it in the chipset, which is 2012 (Intel recently made an announcement on this). Apple just doesn't do much with add-on silicon, as they prefer to only use features in the chipset as it's cheaper.

Topper

Jun 27, 2010, 03:16 PM

.
A HD 5970 2GB or a HD 5870 2GB video card.
I will not cry if it's a GTX 480 1.536GB card.

A power supply powerful enough to run three of those puppies.

64-bit video editing applications that make use of the Mac Pro's and Snow Leopard's and the video cards' power.

strausd

Jun 27, 2010, 04:24 PM

There's only 1x Hex core part that can be used in the SP systems, which is the W3680. It's expensive ($999 is the quantity pricing that's been published). So to have lower cost models to fill the area, they'll have to stick with 35xx parts (there are a couple of new ones out that offer higher clocks that can be substituted for the existing low and mid points; W3530 and W3550 respectively).

As per the DP parts, they'll all be 56xx, but not all of them are Hex core (and those that are, aren't cheap). There's not enough Hex core parts in the cost ranges needed to make all the DP systems Dodeca core, so there will be Octads as well to fill out the line.

Do you think the price will go up significantly with the dual six-core systems? And if they have a 4,6,8, and 12 core option, do you think they would raise the 12-core option price even more to stretch everything out a bit?

jjahshik32

Jun 27, 2010, 04:56 PM

A Mac Pro with SLI or Crossfire!!!

peakchua

Jun 27, 2010, 09:53 PM

A decent video card.

ATI RADEON HD 5870 GRAPHICS CARD OR NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 285. (fermi cards suck the worlds balls of XD )

i would want 2 of those xeons x5680 the 6 core ones, and way impossible, a display that comes with it + 8 gigs of ram for the first model and 16 for the second (its pro!) i want vga or a free adapter because a lot of displays are vga based today. mini display port is a waste of my time

strausd

Jun 27, 2010, 10:04 PM

i would want 2 of those xeons x5680 the 6 core ones, and way impossible, a display that comes with it + 8 gigs of ram for the first model and 16 for the second (its pro!) i want vga or a free adapter because a lot of displays are vga based today. mini display port is a waste of my time

If put that much RAM in to start with, it would make the entry price much much higher, so I would be against that. Plus everyone just goes and gets RAM themselves. And I am a fan of their 24" LED display and love it, it is gorgeous. Because of that I do not think MDP is a waste. It may be a waste of your time, but I don't think you are the only person Apple to trying to sell to.

nanofrog

Jun 27, 2010, 10:04 PM

A HD 5970 2GB or a HD 5870 2GB video card.
The HD5970 is a dual GPU model, and would only run 1x GPU under OS X (Crossfire support required to run the second GPU). So unless Apple adds Crossfire support, it wouldn't work. :(

I will not cry if it's a GTX 480 1.536GB card.
This would come from a 3rd party such as EVGA if it happens.

A power supply powerful enough to run three of those puppies.
Not going to happen this time around (same boards as the 2009's), nor has the MP aimed as a gaming system.

So far, Apple's shown no interest in supporting Crossfire (software support, as there's no need of a chip on the board, as is the case for SLI).

64-bit video editing applications that make use of the Mac Pro's and Snow Leopard's and the video cards' power.
Apple can only control what they develop themselves.

Do you think the price will go up significantly with the dual six-core systems? And if they have a 4,6,8, and 12 core option, do you think they would raise the 12-core option price even more to stretch everything out a bit?
Well, in the case of the W3680, it's the same quantity price (published) as the W3580 that's in the top end 2009 Quad currently. So the price shouldn't change, unless they decide to add even more margin (granted, there will be a different graphics card, and possibly a larger HDD, but it would fall into the same pricing Apple pays currently).

Apple could juggle the DP pricing about a bit (i.e. model separation), but it's likely to remain around the same as existing systems. The Dodeca could be a bit more than just the additional cost of the CPU's. Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see.

A Mac Pro with SLI or Crossfire!!!
Dream on. :eek: :D :p

Topper

Jun 27, 2010, 10:20 PM

64-bit video editing applications that make use of the Mac Pro's and Snow Leopard's and the video cards' power.
Apple can only control what they develop themselves.

And they are not doing a good job of getting out a 64-bit FCP and 64-bit QTX Pro.

nanofrog

Jun 27, 2010, 10:24 PM

And they are not doing a good job of getting out a 64-bit FCP and 64-bit QTX Pro.
I recall there were complaints, but couldn't for the life of me recall what they were. :o

I presume this is related to the Cocoa/Carbon situation (not all the API's have been re-written/converted over to 64bit)?

grue

Jun 27, 2010, 10:45 PM

Some video card choices that don't suck and aren't financial sodomy would be nice. I'm not buying a new computer (pointless), but I'd very much like a new GPU.

Not related to the computer itself, but wishing they'd hurry up and bring Final Cut out of the stone age so it can actually take advantage of the hardware I run it on.

strausd

Jun 27, 2010, 10:56 PM

Apple could juggle the DP pricing about a bit (i.e. model separation), but it's likely to remain around the same as existing systems. The Dodeca could be a bit more than just the additional cost of the CPU's. Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see.

Well Intel's estimated price on their website hardly show any price difference between the 5500s and 5600s. That makes me think that the price wouldn't change much at all, at least for just a CPU upgrade.

nanofrog

Jun 28, 2010, 03:14 AM

Well Intel's estimated price on their website hardly show any price difference between the 5500s and 5600s. That makes me think that the price wouldn't change much at all, at least for just a CPU upgrade.
That's the basis I'm using (expect pricing to remain the same/very similar to what it is currently).

But if Apple decides they want more margin per system, we will see an increase (i.e. 2x 55890's and the margin % applied to the difference may occur, rather than just add in the difference between the processors <difference between base model and P/N selected in the configuration page if it's a higher clock speed>).

strausd

Jun 28, 2010, 03:38 AM

That's the basis I'm using (expect pricing to remain the same/very similar to what it is currently).

But if Apple decides they want more margin per system, we will see an increase (i.e. 2x 55890's and the margin % applied to the difference may occur, rather than just add in the difference between the processors <difference between base model and P/N selected in the configuration page if it's a higher clock speed>).

I'm hopin they keep relatively the same price point for the current 8-core as they will for the 12-core. If they add a quad and octo-core option in, I would like to see those drop a few hundred from what they are now.

If there is a huge price difference between the current 8-core and the soon to be 12-core, it better be for including their higher end GPU rather than because of the CPU upgrade. I do not really care if they have more RAM in the base model, as most people, including myself, will just add that in personally and save money.

Also, I am hoping that if there is a new case design, that will not cause the price to go up. I am expecting at least a black Apple logo on the new MP, considering they are now on all of their desktops along with the 24" LED display.

This is complete speculation and little off topic from what I was just talking about, but I'm am thinking we might see an update from Apple on July 13. Mid March - new MBP, mid April - new MB, mid June - new Mac Mini. So mid July could possibly bring an updated MP. The problem is that the MBA is also due for an update, along with the iMac, but not as much. I'm not so sure they would do it this coming Tuesday because there is still a lot of iPhone 4 stuff still going on. Not sure if they would end up shipping from the same place, but if they do then it might slow things down again, but if not then that is completely irrelevant.

So to conclude, I want a new Mac Pro :D

Hellhammer

Jun 28, 2010, 03:47 AM

I'm hopin they keep relatively the same price point for the current 8-core as they will for the 12-core. If they add a quad and octo-core option in, I would like to see those drop a few hundred from what they are now.

CPUs for 12-core are already $2k so that's double what the current CPUs in low-end octo cost. That leaves 1000$ for other components so I seriously doubt Apple can make 12-core for $3k, especially as we know that they love the profit.

nanofrog

Jun 28, 2010, 02:48 PM

Also, I am hoping that if there is a new case design, that will not cause the price to go up. I am expecting at least a black Apple logo on the new MP, considering they are now on all of their desktops along with the 24" LED display.
A new case is possible, but not a guarantee by any means. It could also push the price up a bit as well, especially if they attempt to make it from a single piece (sans side panel that removes). Basically what I mean is a casting in the basic shape of the case with the panel off, then machined to the final product. That's not cheap, but not impossible either if the economy of scale works out.

A new case would be a good way to distinguish the 2009 and 2010 systems from one another (or previous Intel MPs for that matter), and it also spaces the R&D out (not all at once during an architecture change). Then recycle the case with re-worked internals for the next revision (2011 systems).

But keeping the current case would be the cheapest way to go from a short-term POV.

If there is a huge price difference between the current 8-core and the soon to be 12-core, it better be for including their higher end GPU rather than because of the CPU upgrade. I do not really care if they have more RAM in the base model, as most people, including myself, will just add that in personally and save money.
But there is a chance the the cost will be higher. Let my try to illustrate:

Current 2.93GHz Mac Pro (2009)

CPU = (2x) X5570 @ $1386USD (each) as per Intel's published quantity pricing. So the CPU cost alone is $2772USD.
Apple Retail Price = $5899USD (otherwise base configuration).

Hex Core 56xx Series Processors for a high-end MP

X5670

Clock = 2.93GHz
Cost = $1440USD each (system cost is $2880)

X5680

Clock = 3.33GHz
Cost = $1663USD each (system cost is $3326USD)

To keep costs under control, the X5670 is a more likely choice as the fastest CPU offering. But it's still a bit more expensive. Then you need to figure in for any cost differences for graphics cards (i.e. GT220), and possibly for a new case. That will push the price a bit, unless Apple choses to lower the margin slightly to keep it at the current price (possible, as the cost differences may be cheaper for some items, such as RAM that would balance out others that have increased).

Now consider the possibility that the difference in parts cost may be multiplied by the target margin as well. That's where it could get a little ugly (say a new case design in particular).

CPUs for 12-core are already $2k so that's double what the current CPUs in low-end octo cost. That leaves 1000$ for other components so I seriously doubt Apple can make 12-core for $3k, especially as we know that they love the profit.
See above. ;)

The simple way to look at it, is $5899 - $2772 = $3127 for margin, boards, coolers, ... (system is only upgraded processors, so everything else is the same as a base system).

For the base model, it's $3299 - ($373 * 2) = $2553.

To me, this clearly indicates the margin is being applied to the difference in parts cost, as is standard practice.

oilfighter

Jun 28, 2010, 03:07 PM

Mac Pro updates - what do you want?

I want it to come out tomorrow.

telequest

Jun 28, 2010, 03:55 PM

The same boards in the 2009 systems will be used in the 2010 systems for cost reasons (Intel designs their chipsets to work with both parts released on an architecture within a Tick Tock cycle so vendors can reduce their costs). This isn't out of pure generosity, but rather saves them time and money, and even makes a product line more attractive as well (i.e. boards can be used with 2 different processor series, as it shares the same socket and chipset).

What this means for the 2010 systems, is there will be NO:

USB 3.0
FW 1600
LightPeak
SATA 6.0Gb/s
Additional DIMM slots

So I guess this means for a single processor Hex Core model, the MP will actually have more cores than DIMM slots, 6 vs 4! (actually likewise for the dual Hex Cores 12 vs 8).

The one expansion option I've always taken advantage of in my Macs is adding RAM. The prospect of having just 4 RAM slots in a single proc 2010 Hex core MP is maddening.

The Mac Pro out-expands the iMac in every other category (hard drives, PCIe slots, graphix), except they can't figure out how to get more than 4 DIMM slots in the giant MP tower ... yet they can get the same number squeezed into the tiny space for such things in a 21.5 inch iMac.

Yeah, OK I know it's how they designed the processor boards etc. etc and they won't feel like shelling out the bucks to allow, say, 6 DIMM slots per processor.

But still. Seems lame when a SP Mac Pro can't out-expand an iMac in something so essential as RAM.:confused:

Maybe I'm missing something? Can the MP at least handle larger DIMM modules (the tech spec page on Apple's site says 4GB DIMMs are the max for both the iMacs and quad MPs, for a maximum of 4x4 = 16GB each)?

nanofrog

Jun 28, 2010, 04:23 PM

So I guess this means for a single processor Hex Core model, the MP will actually have more cores than DIMM slots, 6 vs 4! (actually likewise for the dual Hex Cores 12 vs 8).

... yet they can get the same number squeezed into the tiny space for such things in a 21.5 inch iMac.

Yeah, OK I know it's how they designed the processor boards etc. etc and they won't feel like shelling out the bucks to allow, say, 6 DIMM slots per processor.

Maybe I'm missing something? Can the MP at least handle larger DIMM modules (the tech spec page on Apple's site says 4GB DIMMs are the max for both the iMacs and quad MPs, for a maximum of 4x4 = 16GB each)?
I understand the frustration here, and it's a problem IMO. Most other boards do use 6x DIMM's per CPU (yes, it's a function of PCB surface area, but an ATX or SSI CEB can hold 6x DIMM slots for a single processor). DP boards are typically on larger formats, such as E-ATX/SSI EEB. And server boards can actually fit more (there's boards out there with 9x per CPU, so 18 DIMM slots total).

As per comparing it to the iMac, I know it's a tad frustrating, but you have to keep in mind, they use a different chipset (dual channel, with 2x SODIMM's per channel).

In the case of the DIMM capacity that can be used, the 2009 MP's can exceed 4GB per DIMM. 8GB sticks are out now, but they're expensive, and larger are planned.

It's theoretically possible Apple borked the firmware in a manner that limits the max DIMM capacity, but I think someone's tested 8GB sticks in a '09 MP, and it's not in Apple's best interest to do so anyway IMO (takes more time, could waste space in the ROM, and pisses off their customers = loss in future system sales).

PeterQVenkman

Jun 28, 2010, 04:52 PM

Competitive pricing is all I want.

That's it. No USB3, no lightpeak, no Blu-Ray, just a powerful machine I can upgrade over time if I need to.

VirtualRain

Jun 28, 2010, 06:32 PM

nanofrog

Jun 28, 2010, 10:05 PM

colonelsanders

Jun 28, 2010, 10:36 PM

What i'd like to see. (Realistic or otherwise)

1) Dual hexacores: 12 cores 24 threads
2) SLI and or Crossfire support
3) BTO option: Ati 5870 and or nVidia 480
4) esata
5) USB 3.0
6) Keep the HD trays!
7) Sata6
8) Blueray Bto w/ support (don't flame me for that one)

ohh and tomorrow is Tuesday so let's make it happen tomorrow! lol :D

Chilla Frilla

Jun 28, 2010, 10:38 PM

Is it too much to ask for an ATI 5870 GPU option?

C'mon Steve, I know you're reading this! (5970 isn't bad either. ;))

deconstruct60

Jun 29, 2010, 03:26 PM

substitute: could be
They surprised everyone with the Mac Mini. They did not need to do a complete redesign and repackaging to offer a new GPU... yet they did... indicating that every refresh is not just about improving specs with minimal investment.

Several points. One, they increased the price of the mini. Handing you a chunk of aluminum is being used in part to help justify the higher price. They needed something overt to pull that off. Two, the cpu and graphics update surprised who??????? After the MBP 13" and the MacBook got released with C2D and 320M, who rationally expected something else not based on those? I'm sure there were hand waving speculators who claimed i3 or i5 was coming. Finally, who says the current mini is a one year gig? Next year there still won't be room for a discrete graphics chip. The Intel IGP offerings won't be better than a 320M and there will be a slightly faster C2D closer to the 3GHz range that can drop into the box ( the iMac line would have completely dumped them by end of the Fall so there won't be CPU speed overlap. ). The current minis are running a bit cooler so a 35W C2D may fit. Otherwise can double the L3 cache if want to stay at 25W.

Apple has sat on a basic mini design for two years in the past and just used part updates to move it along. Next year's mini could easily be a bumped C2D, 4GB ram (two 2GB sticks) , and a bigger disk drive. The two 1GB memory sticks are somewhat of a joke right now and of course drives will be bigger year over year at the same price point. The faster and/or larger L3 C2D that are too expensive now (approx. in the $300+ range) will fall back into the $250 range next year.

If Intel is punting chipset USB 3.0 back to 2012 and the Nvidia IGP are better than Intel's offering, I don't see much changing on the mini over next two years.

For the Mac Pro. They have no need to bump the prices higher. It already is at the upper end of the range. So no need to tweak design to justify higher price.