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MacBytes
Oct 30, 2004, 10:32 PM
Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple Q3 Global Market Share Falls to 1.8% as Competitors Post Strong Gains (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20041030233206)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

combatcolin
Oct 31, 2004, 05:04 AM
Oh well, things are looking up the iMac is avaible is good nunbers and the 1.8 and 2.0 PM are too.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 31, 2004, 05:22 AM
It appears to me that the only reason Mac market share dropped is because the whole computer buying market is outpacing Apple in terms of % increase. If that trend were to reverse, Apple's market share would rise - the amount dependent on how far ahead Apple is compared to the others. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's share doubles or nearly doubles come this time next year. Heck, when it's this low, it could easily triple or quadruple.

Little Endian
Oct 31, 2004, 07:33 AM
Apple is so much more competitive price wise than they were a few years ago however they are still priced at a rather high premium. If Apple reduced the prices of most of it's products by 10-15% and increased advertisementt on the Mac instead of focusing only on ipod then maybe they could increase sales. There are many other markets that Apple could tap into that could suplement income other than ipods. For example Apple could offer ichat A/V to the Windows World and sell alot more isights. Apple could also reduce the prices of their Cinema Displays and advertise it among the PC market and I bet they could sell twice as many as they do now. As long as ipod/ itunes grows and if Apple finds other options to supplement income then they should be able to make their Desktop offerings cheaper and get larger market share.

mklos
Oct 31, 2004, 07:40 AM
The way I see it, Apple is really hurt by the way they figure market share. When you buy a Mac, it will last you at least 3 or 4, maybe even 5 or 6 years. So there is no need to buy a new Mac anytime soon after you get your new one. For example, my mom has my Original 233MHz iMac G3 with 256MB of RAM and its running the latest version of Mac OS X. (Mac OS X.3.5) It runs beautifully! It runs iTunes, iPhoto, Safari, Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac OS X, QuickTime, etc. without any problems what so ever. I just had to slap two 128 MB SODIMMS in there for the RAM upgrade and she was ready to go. This is something you cannot do very easily on the PC side. The average PC won't last you that long, nor will it run Windows latest and greatest OS 5 or 6 years down the road. So people have to upgrade or be left out.

So someone needs to figure out a different way to do this. They need to figure out a way to include the people who already own a Mac and compare that to the people who bought new ones this quarter.

That being said, I think Apple WILL increase their market share in the years to come. Especially if Microsoft keeps up with its current version of Winholes XP. I think people are sick and tired of security release after security release. Then they didn't patch it correctly, so there's a patch to patch the patch, that should of been patched in the latest service pack. You get my drift there. Then there's the spyware! I work for a PC computer shop and about 80% of the PCs that come in are for people that are just packed with spyware.

Apple was hindered a little this pervious quarter because of IBM's woes. Hopefully IBM will get everything straightened out and can start cranking out more G5 processors as I think Apple is looking to just about get its complete line up using the G5 processor in some way shape or form. When the PowerBook finally does go G5, only the eMac and iBook will be left out and some people think that the eMac may go G5 soon too, although I'm not so sure of that one. I'd rather see that and the iBook go next generation G4 processing.

I hope that Apple does do something. They really haven't wow'd a crowd at a Mac Event in quite a while. Its just been a bunch of speed bumps for their computers and an iPod/iTunes update. Hopefully next year (2005), they will wow the crowd two or three times. Once with some Dual Core Dual Processor 3 GHz PowerMacs (doubtful but one can hope), another with a completely new G5 PowerBook (doubtful but one can hope), and last with Mac OS X.4 (the most likely of the 3).

mklos
Oct 31, 2004, 07:50 AM
Apple is so much more competitive price wise than they were a few years ago however they are still priced at a rather high premium. If Apple reduced the prices of most of it's products by 10-15% and increased advertisementt on the Mac instead of focusing only on ipod then maybe they could increase sales. There are many other markets that Apple could tap into that could suplement income other than ipods. For example Apple could offer ichat A/V to the Windows World and sell alot more isights. Apple could also reduce the prices of their Cinema Displays and advertise it among the PC market and I bet they could sell twice as many as they do now. As long as ipod/ itunes grows and if Apple finds other options to supplement income then they should be able to make their Desktop offerings cheaper and get larger market share.

Well, its not as simple as just lower prices. Do you think Apple charges an arm and a leg on purpose??? If could sell a $999 2.5GHz PowerMac G5 today, they would. When cheaper prices comes cheaper parts and pieces. Then Apple's strong reliability becomes an issue. Also, if Apple lowers prices they may sell more, but they won't make as much money. You got to remember that Apple is still a company, and their main purpose as is any company is to make money. Apple's displays are about as high end as you can get so their price is actually pretty competitive compared to the lower priced, cheaper parts and pieces PC displays. Apple may not make the actual display part, but they still designed the whole display from the ground up. Their computers are the exact same way, every part in any Mac model may not be made by Apple, but that Mac was still designed from the ground up by Apple. Every part and piece in anything Apple was thought out and tested, and tested again, and then re-tested to see which is the better suit for that particular Mac item. This all costs a huge amount of money here. Were talking in the hundreds of millions of dollars range.

Dell doesn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars designing their computers from the ground up. They kinda just throw some fairly good computers parts together and slap their name on it and sell it cheap. Which is the reason why we get a few Dells in our computer shop, along with a TON of HP Pavilions.

So its not just as easy as just lower prices and everything will be hunky dory.

Stella
Oct 31, 2004, 08:48 AM
When was the last time you saw an ad on TV about Apple Computers ( not iPod)?! I've not seen one advert for the new iMac or any regarding iBooks or PowerBooks.

If Apple want to increase their sales in non - usa markets then they would stop their dodgy use of exchange rates valuations.

I agree with above - PC sales are out doing increased Mac sales. Oh, and don't forget that there have been a shortage of Mac computers during the summer. Saying that, Apple market share would have probably decreased whatever.

Its sales of computers no user base. Macs last longer than PCs. Its not a clear indication of Mac popularity.


Apple could do a lot more to help itself though.

Little Endian
Oct 31, 2004, 08:52 AM
Well, its not as simple as just lower prices. Do you think Apple charges an arm and a leg on purpose??? If could sell a $999 2.5GHz PowerMac G5 today, they would. When cheaper prices comes cheaper parts and pieces. Then Apple's strong reliability becomes an issue. Also, if Apple lowers prices they may sell more, but they won't make as much money. You got to remember that Apple is still a company, and their main purpose as is any company is to make money. Apple's displays are about as high end as you can get so their price is actually pretty competitive compared to the lower priced, cheaper parts and pieces PC displays. Apple may not make the actual display part, but they still designed the whole display from the ground up. Their computers are the exact same way, every part in any Mac model may not be made by Apple, but that Mac was still designed from the ground up by Apple. Every part and piece in anything Apple was thought out and tested, and tested again, and then re-tested to see which is the better suit for that particular Mac item. This all costs a huge amount of money here. Were talking in the hundreds of millions of dollars range.

Dell doesn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars designing their computers from the ground up. They kinda just throw some fairly good computers parts together and slap their name on it and sell it cheap. Which is the reason why we get a few Dells in our computer shop, along with a TON of HP Pavilions.

So its not just as easy as just lower prices and everything will be hunky dory.

You forgot that I mentioned they need to promote and Advertise the Macintosh more. Also I am not recomending they slash prices big time. Apple will and always should command a premium. In fact most of the product line could remain at current prices Apple just needs to offer a little more for what you pay for. When the hell did I mention $999 Dual G5's? The PowerMacs, imacs, and ibooks, don't really need to be cheaper they just need to offer a little more for the price point. Like more RAM, better Graphics Chipsets, etc. The Powerbooks are a little on the high end of the pricing spectrum especially in contrast to the ibooks and they lack severely in comparison to price to Performance ratio on the PC notebooks. They should be $100-$200 cheaper across the line. The Cinema display particularly the 20 inch is overpriced as well.

I could go into detail of where they could adjust with very little dent in their profit margins. You also seem to neglect that I said Apple could absorb any losses associated with slighly lower prices by entering new markets to increase sales volume such as marketing isight to the entire Computer market as well as Cinema Displays. I do not doubt Apple's build quality at all but the pricing structures need some modification. Also Selling more DOES offset lower profit margins per unit. In theory if Apple could cut prices of just certain products by a mere 5-15% they could in theory sell 15-30% more units which could offset any losses.

You also have to remember that your calculations about thinking that All macs ever built should be considered in Market Share calculations are very flawed indeed. What matters is Sales on a Quarter to Quarter and year to year basis. If apple keeps lagging behind the rest of the market it will affect it's overall marketshare down the road.

Little Endian
Oct 31, 2004, 08:59 AM
I agree with the the idea that Macs last longer than PCs. However I think it is more than just build quality that is the case for this. People hold on to their Macs longer because:

1. they generally Cost more so one goes for longer times without upgrading.

2. Apple does not release new machines as fast as the PC world does.

3. Many Mac users are not Gamers and thus are not always on the relentless quest for ever faster Mobo, CPU, and Graphics Cards.

Dont Hurt Me
Oct 31, 2004, 09:37 AM
I agree with the the idea that Macs last longer than PCs. However I think it is more than just build quality that is the case for this. People hold on to their Macs longer because:

1. they generally Cost more so one goes for longer times without upgrading.

2. Apple does not release new machines as fast as the PC world does.

3. Many Mac users are not Gamers and thus are not always on the relentless quest for ever faster Mobo, CPU, and Graphics Cards.
I agree for the most part but also in a growing market Apple doesnt seem to be growing much does it? This all goes back to their whole philosophy of not having any Mac or Mac related stuff anywhere for the public to see and buy and to the philosophy of trying to sell vaporware.... G5s were very late, no iMacs for months,,etc. If you walk into a store and they dont carry your product its pretty hard to make the sale isnt it. My First Mac was bought at WalMart. Today there is nothing Mac in the most popular store in the U.S. Again in South Carolina not 1 Apple store.Another reason they have 1 product that is upgradeable- Powermac and keep pushing the all in one stuff.Pushing FX5200s, Many reasons Apple isnt taking over and Apple is the one to blame for all of this.

mklos
Oct 31, 2004, 09:43 AM
When was the last time you saw an ad on TV about Apple Computers ( not iPod)?! I've not seen one advert for the new iMac or any regarding iBooks or PowerBooks.

If Apple want to increase their sales in non - usa markets then they would stop their dodgy use of exchange rates valuations.

I agree with above - PC sales are out doing increased Mac sales. Oh, and don't forget that there have been a shortage of Mac computers during the summer. Saying that, Apple market share would have probably decreased whatever.

Its sales of computers no user base. Macs last longer than PCs. Its not a clear indication of Mac popularity.


Apple could do a lot more to help itself though.

Well its probably a good thing that Apple hasn't advertised the iMac G5. Apple can hardly keep up with orders as it is. Another thing, the iPod provides FREE advertisement for all of its other Apple products. When most people go to Apple's website they not only look at the iPod page, but also the other products that Apple sells. You will see an increase in Apple market share because of the iPod. People will see how good the iPod is in terms of ease of use and quality and then people will buy Apple's computers for those same reasons.

Same goes for the PowerMac G5. Apple can hardly keep up with orders as it is without advertising. If Apple can't keep up with orders now, then how is Apple going to keep up with orders after they advertise? If Apple can't keep up with orders, people will just say the hell with it and go buy a PC that they can get immediately. This is not an Apple only problem, its mostly in part to IBM not being able to provide sufficient good G5 processors to Apple. This seems to be something that has hurt Apple all along. Apple comes out with something very cool and people want it, but its so unique that its hard to re-produce over and over again.

I agree with the the idea that Macs last longer than PCs. However I think it is more than just build quality that is the case for this. People hold on to their Macs longer because:

1. they generally Cost more so one goes for longer times without upgrading.

2. Apple does not release new machines as fast as the PC world does.

3. Many Mac users are not Gamers and thus are not always on the relentless quest for ever faster Mobo, CPU, and Graphics Cards.

1. People don't upgrade because they don't feel the need to upgrade.

2. Apple doesn't need to release new machines as fast as the PC world. Plus remember that Apple designs every Mac from the ground up. Apple's Macs are updated every 8 to 10 months. I think on par with the PC world.

3. I kinda agree with you on the 3rd one. I do know a lot of Mac Gamers and some use older Macs with their games. You don't always needs the latest and greatest to play games.

macridah
Oct 31, 2004, 11:49 AM
the iMac will change things ... especially when IBM starts cranking out ships faster. The iMac wait and the 2.5 take forever to ship and that might hurt shipment numbers, a little. But once IBM starts cranking the ships, then apple can be more competitive for the price.

Can you imagine apple without steve.... apple would even smaller than it already is.

mklos
Oct 31, 2004, 12:55 PM
I agree for the most part but also in a growing market Apple doesnt seem to be growing much does it? This all goes back to their whole philosophy of not having any Mac or Mac related stuff anywhere for the public to see and buy and to the philosophy of trying to sell vaporware.... G5s were very late, no iMacs for months,,etc. If you walk into a store and they dont carry your product its pretty hard to make the sale isnt it. My First Mac was bought at WalMart. Today there is nothing Mac in the most popular store in the U.S. Again in South Carolina not 1 Apple store.Another reason they have 1 product that is upgradeable- Powermac and keep pushing the all in one stuff.Pushing FX5200s, Many reasons Apple isnt taking over and Apple is the one to blame for all of this.

There is one HUGE reason why Apple doesn't put their products in other stores. Why do you think Apple pulled their products from Sears, and Best Buy? Why do you think Apple doesn't sell their computers in Circuit City, Sams Club, or Wal-Mart? Its all because they will just sit there and gather dust like they always have done in a Sears and Best Buy. All the employees will steer customers away from the Macintosh platform because they don't know anything about them. Those companies aren't willing to allow Apple to put their own employees in their stores so obviously Apple isn't going to allow their products in their stores.

The Macintosh is a entirely different platform and if there isn't people there to help explain the differences, and similarities then they'll just sit there and gather dust. There needs to be people there to explain iLife 04', what you can do with it and what it does that you can't do on a PC.

So it only makes sense for Apple NOT to put their products in stores. iPods are different because it has turned into the lets say industry standard for MP3 players. So you can put an iPod in a Wal-Mart type place and it would sell. You don't need someone there to explain all the features of an iPod, or whether or not it works with just Macs or Macs and PCs. Apple's computers are a different story.

There are a bunch of peripherals in my local Wal-Mart for the Macintosh. All the printers, CD-RWs drives, DVD-RWs drives, etc all work with Mac OS X. There is limited software, but who the hell goes to a Wal-Mart to buy software anyways? Only red-necks like you!

Apple only puts their retail stores in high traffic locations. I'm sorry to say but there aren't many high traffic areas in SC. Maybe Columbia, SC, but thats about it.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 31, 2004, 01:20 PM
<snip>
Another reason they have 1 product that is upgradeable- Powermac and keep pushing the all in one stuff.Pushing FX5200s, Many reasons Apple isnt taking over and Apple is the one to blame for all of this.
Personally, I think the PC manufacturers are on the wrong track. The good old PC BIOS needs to die so Open Firmware can take its place. That change alone will alleviate most of the hurdles surrounding graphics cards for Macs. If you asked me why Apple only sells one machine that can be vastly reconfigured, it's because Apple doesn't blur its markets like the PC makers do. Apple knows that the only people that need all that expansion are power users who can afford a PowerMac in the first place. Apple sees that as an advantage, but not everyone agrees with Apple's thinking.

combatcolin
Oct 31, 2004, 01:59 PM
Is everyone missing Apples main sourse of advertisment?

THE APPLE STORE!!

Apple don't give a flying fluck if you don't buy anything, just as long as you walk into the store and have a look/fiddle with something.

But, yes, i would like to see more Apple adverts,the iPod is selling itself so pump some money into the rest of the range.

(Regarding Apple stores, not long now in the UK!!)

AmigoMac
Oct 31, 2004, 02:02 PM
Warning : I didn't read the posts above.

Do not forget the cool factor, of course they can have a $999 iMac G5, just bring it in a big metal box and drill some holes for the ports... actually $999 would be a lot.

what about 1 more inch in powerbooks? :p

Edit: I just saw the U2 iPod ad in the german TV... great...but
in the end they wrote www.apple.com/de, why? www.apple.de works and looks better, dos, tres, catorce... :D

macidiot
Oct 31, 2004, 08:08 PM
No surprise. Apple's desktops have fallen behind in price/performance. The fixes (2.5's and g5 iMac) are barely available. The laptops were the only competitive offerings. And guess what, they sold. But even they are falling behind now. I'm thinking that if there isn't a G5/dual core upgrade to the Powerbooks in the next 3 months, sales will start falling there too.

Price is less of an issue as long as performance is decent. People are willing to pay a premium for design and quality. But if the product is severly outclassed, it won't sell (see: last generation iMac).

And people are right about the lack of advertising. The last computer ad I remember from Apple was back when the G5's were introduced. Funny how the Apple seems to get advertising for the iPod but hasn't gotten it right for their computers in 20 years. As anyone in advertising will tell you, you need follow through. Its not enough to throw out some ads when a product is introduced then let it die. You need to keep advertising it. They seem to understand that with the iPod. I see ads for it constantly on TV.

Apple, and Steve Jobs seem to have forgotten that they are in the business of making and selling computers, not socks :eek:

Hopefully, they'll remember with the launch of Tiger...

rjwill246
Nov 1, 2004, 01:00 AM
Apple's market share doesn't quite tell the complete picture. Every stupid dumb PC used as a "terminal" sitting in every bank, stockbrokers and other similar businesses is part of the PC statistics. Apple clearly isn't in that arena and so cannot be fairly evaluated given that it is not in that type of market. What tells a truer tale of real world "share" occurred as I was flying across the Pacific last week. In Business Class there were six computer users, four of them using iBooks/ PBs. At the airport check-in coming back, three iBooks and my PB were put through security, one after the other. Such scenes never occurred even two years ago.
Gartner has always had an anti-Apple stance and they know full well that the statistics they use do not tell how well (or not) Apple is doing. If Apple ever got around to making very cheap "PCs" as used in large institutions as glorified terminals, AND they made no gains in that market, only then could one conclude that they were being beaten up by the competition.
Merecedes and BMW never worry how many Toyotas are selling other than as a gauge of the health of the automobile marketplace.

macidiot
Nov 1, 2004, 01:23 AM
Apple's market share doesn't quite tell the complete picture. Every stupid dumb PC used as a "terminal" sitting in every bank, stockbrokers and other similar businesses is part of the PC statistics. Apple clearly isn't in that arena and so cannot be fairly evaluated given that it is not in that type of market. What tells a truer tale of real world "share" occurred as I was flying across the Pacific last week. In Business Class there were six computer users, four of them using iBooks/ PBs. At the airport check-in coming back, three iBooks and my PB were put through security, one after the other. Such scenes never occurred even two years ago.
Gartner has always had an anti-Apple stance and they know full well that the statistics they use do not tell how well (or not) Apple is doing. If Apple ever got around to making very cheap "PCs" as used in large institutions as glorified terminals, AND they made no gains in that market, only then could one conclude that they were being beaten up by the competition.
Merecedes and BMW never worry how many Toyotas are selling other than as a gauge of the health of the automobile marketplace.

Its true that Apple doesn't compete with all the low-cost reception desk stuff. It also is misleading in that it doesn't account for the installed base of Macs. It only accounts for new sales. However, your analogy is wrong. Actually, Mercedes and BMW care a lot about what Toyota is doing, more specifically, its Lexus division. In fact, Toyota almost put BMW out of business back in the early nineties. Both Mercedes and BMW were forced to go back to the drawing boards to compete with the Japanese. Applying that to computers, Apple should not necessarily care about markets where it doesn't compete. However, Apple should care about losing marketshare in segments it does compete in, like graphic design, video, education, etc. And I'm sure Apple pays a lot of attention to what Dell is doing in the education market, for example. Lets face it, the numbers aren't great. There are good reasons for it (supply constraints), but the fact remains that Apple is not executing well right now when it comes to computers. As in, they aren't hitting price points, they don't have product, they aren't getting their message out to people, etc. For example, how much did it hurt that Apple didn't have the G5 iMac available until after the back-to-school buying season?