Tiger Build 8A294 Seeded To Developers

[MacRumors]

In the first major revision to see the light of day outside of the Apple campus since wwdc04, the developer preview version of Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4) has undergone some major revisions. According to ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0410tigerseed.html), changes have been made to AFP, AppKit, AppleScript, Core Graphics, File System, Finder, Graphics Drivers, High Level Toolbox, Java, Kernel, Launch Services, Mail, Navigation Services, Printing, QuickTime, Text and International, Web Core, Web Services, and Xcode Design Tools, to name a few. Apple's own description of the update points out that there are "too many revisions to list." Apple has said that Tiger would be available in the first half of 2005, and TS is now claiming that it should be expected on or around wwdc05, in late June.

Apple Insider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=727) also has information regarding the build, showing new additions (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=728) such as burnable folders, tighter integration of smart folders with spotlight, and use of a groups view instead of the normal columns view within the smart folders. Additionally, they point out changes to the Apple Developer Connection distribution infrastructure (notoriously slow in the past) which is now reportedly taking around 2 hours to download the entire almost 2 GB DVD image of the new build. AI also states that there is an build of OS X 10.4 Server floating around the Apple campus, but hasn't made its way out to developers yet.

[AoWolf]

cool maybe we well get some screens soon.

[wileypen]

Maybe I'm nuts, but for the last couple of system updates, I've been less than thrilled when I've heard they're coming. My Mac _works_, for chrissake. Fix the problems, fix compatibility, keep it stable. I can't think of anything from the last major upgrade that actually helps me work, but I have a lot of memories of bugs that were introduced and needed to be fixed.

OS X is getting like Microsoft Word - just keep pilin' on them features no matter how obscure or unnecessary, and usability suffers.

[ColdFlame87]

I hope they shed some light on some more major features :D

[Zigster]

Yeah but is it OPTIMIZED for the G5 FINALLY??? :confused:

[pgwalsh]

I wish Tiger was released yesterday, with all it's goodness. Tiger appears to be a seriously feature rich update. I'd really like it to have a big intoroduction and market period before Longhorn is released.

[PlaceofDis]

i too would like to know what else Tiger is bringing to the table

but im glad to hear that apple is making progress with the new 10.4, just hope that it wont take until WWDC '05 to get it out of the doors, people are probably going to be disappointed and upset if that happens, although personally i wont mind as long as it is Released by then, just not announcement of a release date....

[MacDawg]

TS is now claiming that it should be expected on or around wwdc05, in late June.

Seems like a long time away still.

I like the new features that have been proposed, but it remains to be seen if they can deliver on everything. Of course I have more faith in Tiger than I do in Longhorn! :p

[wdlove]

We have just a little over two months till MWSF. I imagine that Steve will demonstrate some of the highlights of Tiger, take it our for a spin. Hopefully a release date will be made also.

[Punani]

Seems like a long time away still.

I like the new features that have been proposed, but it remains to be seen if they can deliver on everything. Of course I have more faith in Tiger than I do in Longhorn! :pI'm certain Apple will deliver on what they promised, I think they learned what can happen if one doesn't after Copland.

However, a delay seems less surprising as new builds are released, I think hopes of a January release have been effectively squashed :p. Though, I believe to some extent, Jobs' main objective is to get out before Longhorn...or at least before the release of Microsoft's WinFS database layer; we may see Mac OS X [Tiger] Public Beta again (Just kidding)!

[Mac-Xpert]

I hope Tiger will get the AFP networking back to OS-9 level. With Jaguar on my G4 Dual 867 MHz the connection to our windows 2000 servers afp share was already much slower to browse through folders than on OS-9 on the same machine. When I recently upgraded to the 2.5 GHz G5 running Panther 10.3.4 I was hoping that I could browse through the server a bit quicker. But it turned out that panther is actually a lot worse. It now takes 12 seconds before the 106 items of a certain folder are shown. If I open the same folder on a 450 MHz G4 running Os 9.2.2 it opens instantly.

Does anybody else have this problem with connections to a windows server with a AFP shares? It doesn't happen when I connect to my G4 from my G5.

I hope Tiger will improve this.

I also like to get the finder windows to work in the same way as they did on Jaguar. When I open a folder on Jaguar and type the first few letters of the filename, the finder will jump to that file. On Panther this doesn't work the right way. It only responds to the first typed letter or number, not to a combination of several ones. So when I like to go to for instance a file beginning with 135 and type those numbers, Jaguar will select the right file. But Panther only selects the first file starting with 1 and ignores the 3 and 5. This is very annoying. I hope they will have addressed that as well in Tiger.

I find it strange that something that worked good in the previous system all of a sudden doesn't work in the right way anymore in the next version of the OS. Shouldn't they only change and/or add things that need to be improved and leave the working parts alone.

Just my thoughts...

[t300]

Has MacRumors lost some of it's credibility? News has been not only late, but nothing really exlusive and taken from AppleInsider or ThinkSecret? Perhaps it's time for some additional posters to work on the front page of MacRumors.Com

[Photorun]

What with all but the portables being G5 by the time it's released (yes, eMacs soon to be too) it'd be nice to have X sail using mostly 64 bit. I'd even be willing to have one OS built for G4 and another built for G5 just so us G5 owners can finally take off the fuel governer and charge ahead full blast with 64 bit goodness, REALLY bringing our favorite forum word "snappy" to new heights.

Can't wait to see some screen grabs for the five seconds Apple legal will allow them to be up.

[AmigoMac]

Developers, developers, developers... :rolleyes:

(EDIT: Wrong Thread??)

Nevermind, I'm really happy with the work done for tiger, I've read a lot of things about this cat and can't wait to have it in my hands, of course after the release I will be getting a machine.

[johnnyjibbs]

Hmmm.. the features keep trickling in slowly. I'm still not set on some of the GUI - looks too Windows-like. I noticed the simple Finder has lost the pinstripes in the status bar. I wonder if Tiger will have any pinstripes at all... :( Also, is the columns mode still there? Notice the horizontal lines on the Finder view button on the toolbar.

Burnable folders sound like a novel idea but I don't think I burn media THAT often... Still, if it doesn't get too much in the way of other stuff, it's a welcome addition. Seems like Spotlight and its related features are the main thing with Tiger. The others are just icing.

[mdetry]

OS X new version should beat Longhorn by a year. By doing so it will have a very good edge to tempt Switchers. If Apple manages to get all this updates in time and without stability sacrifice, they will really have used a big oportunity to grab Press and Momentum to the MAC.

This would put pressure on Microsoft and Microsoft will only delay and delay Longhorn or take out many features...

Hopefully this togeher with the IPOD success will make inroads to get MAC a steady increasy in % market. Although many MAC fans think that they do not mind % of market it very important for the overall future of MAC.

[guet]

Maybe I'm nuts, but for the last couple of system updates, I've been less than thrilled when I've heard they're coming. My Mac _works_, for chrissake.

If it works, and you're happy with it, then don't buy the upgrade, is that so hard? :eek:

i too would like to know what else Tiger is bringing to the table...

Well, let's see, there's a whole new file system meta-data layer, with an API via Searchlight, which will be the basis of a lot of new 3rd party products.

There's konfabulator style widgets for your desktop.

There's Core Data, which will make a huge difference to developers, making it easier to store and access all kinds of data in standard ways, and easier to pass that data between applications. Not to mention it includes direct SQL support in the OS for the first time (though in a limited way).

xCode 2.0 (could do with being improved, so I hope it's better than 1.5).

h.264 video in Quicktime.

Then there's Core Image with a slew of impressive visual effects which apps can easiliy hook into and which degrades gracefully on older hardware.

Automator, making it easier to produce applescripts.

RSS support in Safari.

Support for Jabber in iChat.

Built in Jabber and blog servers in 10.4 Server.

I'd say that's sufficient progress for 1.5 years, wouldn't you? Now we just have to be patient and wait for it. They're not going to add new features with 4 months to go before release, from now on in it'll all be testing and tweaks.

[Punani]

If it works, and you're happy with it, then don't buy the upgrade, is that so hard? :eek:I think this issue has been driven into the ground.

I think it's not so much wanting new features, it's the fact that such applications like Safari are so deeply embedded into the operating system via WebKit, this it is impossible to get even minor updates with it if you're not using the latest version and Apple is trying to encourage people to upgrade anyway.

In addition, a lot of smaller developers seem to write off the old releases once they get their stuff to adopt the new features. Examples include Colloquy and Quicksilver (Sort of).

I think the problem is that, while you certainly are not being forced to upgrade, it's not really practical to do so. A OS release every 2 to 3 years would have been more reasonable to go instead pumping out one about once a year which, for the most part, seems to have just annoyed a lot of people. The rapid release pattern seems to have resulted in some-what buggy initial GM releases (At least from what I'm reading) and general frustration among people who had just gotten used to the new additions to OS X and were tweaking it.

[Windowlicker]

I also like to get the finder windows to work in the same way as they did on Jaguar. When I open a folder on Jaguar and type the first few letters of the filename, the finder will jump to that file. On Panther this doesn't work the right way. It only responds to the first typed letter or number, not to a combination of several ones. So when I like to go to for instance a file beginning with 135 and type those numbers, Jaguar will select the right file. But Panther only selects the first file starting with 1 and ignores the 3 and 5. This is very annoying. I hope they will have addressed that as well in Tiger.

I tried out this (on panther) and it works just fine for me :Q weird.

[munkle]

I'm excited by the new features being touted in Tiger and am hoping that it will be released before June (pushing the first half the year promise a bit there Steve!). Sometimes I just don't think people realise what a big step forward Tiger is, it has nothing to do with the eye candy features etc, it's the technologies that are being introduced and incorporated into Tiger that makes it such an important release. Hopefully we'll get a release date at MWSF.

[number9]

I know a lot of people may have seen this already, but over at Cafe Macs, they have a pretty detailed summary of all the new features people have reported showing up in each build of Tiger. It seems to be updated frequently, and I definitely found out alot of either completely new features, or just more in depth explanations of features that people have talked about. There are also a decent amount of screen shots. Again, i'm sure alot of people have seen this already, but I thought it was worth mentioning

here is the link
http://www.cafemacs.com/index.php#t368

[jsw]

I've been playing with it for a few days now, and this new build is vastly improved from the June release.

Initial impressions?

(1) Dashboard is eye candy, nothing more, and it really is Konfabulator repackaged and incorporated into the OS. Yes, it's nice to press a button and have a calculator and stickies and whatever on the screen. Yes, I'll use it. No, it isn't compelling. To me.

(2) Spotlight is mind-boggling. Period. At least to me. The speed and completeness of the searching - and this is a pre-release - are astounding, and I love the interface. Killer.

(3) Automator is the single greatest thing - to me - in Tiger, bar none. It's not just a GUI on top of AppleScript - it's a very intuitive way to do some very complex stuff with your Mac. Workflows can be saved, sent to friends, etc. AppleScript, in it's 'new' form, will finally appeal to the great unwashed masses.

Generally, I think it's a compelling upgrade and has lots of other cool features (iChat conference calls, etc.). It clearly isn't ready for prime time, yet, but I was able to use it for an entire day and play around quite a bit with no major issues.

[mfessenden]

What with all but the portables being G5 by the time it's released (yes, eMacs soon to be too) it'd be nice to have X sail using mostly 64 bit. I'd even be willing to have one OS built for G4 and another built for G5 just so us G5 owners can finally take off the fuel governer and charge ahead full blast with 64 bit goodness, REALLY bringing our favorite forum word "snappy" to new heights.

Can't wait to see some screen grabs for the five seconds Apple legal will allow them to be up.

I thought Tiger was a 64-bit OS? Is that not true?

[maya]

WoW, saw the new feature set of "burnable folder". Neat very similar to the contextual menu that Toast offers.


Tiger is going to be hugh for all those I do not want or see any reason to buy it.

Think about this Tiger is a living OS in a sense, it updates and tracks all the information on your HDD. And you can access it with SpotLight. And we are talking about everything, emails, text files, iChat messages, etc...

Plus you have other goodies such as "Automator", and network support.

And please people do not compare Dashboard to Konf, this is just getting to be a tired subject. :rolleyes:

Konf uses javascript and Dashboard uses gadgets/widgets that are made with html and or CSS.

Looking forward to Tiger for an early release with as little bugs as possible :)

[logicat2001]

Maybe I'm nuts, but for the last couple of system updates, I've been less than thrilled when I've heard they're coming. My Mac _works_, for chrissake. Fix the problems, fix compatibility, keep it stable.

wileypen,

There are two different groups working on two different projects: engineers working on the current release and engineers working on the next release. Consider that 10.2 has reached revision 8 and 10.3 has reached revision 5. They are working on fixing bugs. They are working on fixing compatiblity and stability issues. These groups are doing two different things.

What's the problem then?

Best regards,
Logicat

[maya]

I thought Tiger was a 64-bit OS? Is that not true?

Tiger is 64-bit, and also has 32-bit support. :) It will install which ever version if your HW will not support one or the other.


If you have a 64-bit chip it will install the 64-bit packet if you have a 32-bit chip it will install the 32-bit packet.

[stevehaslip]

well it seems like june is much more likely now, but i'm all for it if it means that we get a more complete, perfect tiger to play with. There won't be any excuses for any bugs etc if they've left it right to the end june. (The end of the time frame that Steve gave us for its release) I just hope it isn't too pricey.
Surely it can't be any more than $129/£99?

[Punani]

I thought Tiger was a 64-bit OS? Is that not true?Yes, it is. Though Cocoa and Carbon won't be.

Ack, you beat me to it m a y a!

[maya]

I tried out this (on panther) and it works just fine for me :Q weird.

Works great under panther for me as well. Where is the problem? :confused:

[nagromme]

OS X is getting like Microsoft Word - just keep pilin' on them features no matter how obscure or unnecessary, and usability suffers.

So Panther is less usable than Jaguar? In what regards, may I ask?

I've found every upgrade WELL worth it, and this sounds like the biggest and best yet. And that's saying something: Exposé, the Finder sidebar, and Fast Switching alone were enough to make Panther a big improvement in my day-to-day productivity.

Some people like the Windows model of "slight changes... eventually... with big problems." But OS X is a new OS--and so faster improvement is a fact of life.

Nobody forces you to upgrade, though, if that improvement bothers you and you don't want the major new features of Tiger. Apple's still releasing fixes for BOTH Panther and Jaguar, and your current apps will keep right on working with your current OS and hardware.

[Stella]

I thought Tiger was a 64-bit OS? Is that not true?

I think it will have 64 bit extensions and support more so than Panther.. but there is no way that Tiger is going to be exclusively 64 bit since there are too many G3 / G4 owners.

I don't think Apple are even that stupid to not support existing 32 bit machines (however, I do wonder sometimes, I really do).

[maya]

I think it will have 64 bit extensions and support more so than Panther.. but there is no way that Tiger is going to be exclusively 64 bit since there are too many G3 / G4 owners.

I don't think Apple are even that stupid to not support existing 32 bit machines (however, I do wonder sometimes, I really do).

This has been asked numerous times. Look no farther than you local Apple website and check out the "Tiger Preview" option it will explain to you as to why it IS a 64-bit OS. :D

[nagromme]

Has MacRumors lost some of it's credibility? News has been not only late, but nothing really exlusive and taken from AppleInsider or ThinkSecret?

MR's excellent reputation has always been based on TWO very valuable things:

1. They have good sources. Sometimes unique and exclusive, sometimes not. The amount of really good hard info that trickles out of Apple is less these days, though, and that affects all rumor sites.

2. Maybe more importantly, they are a very good judge of what OTHER reports say. Even if a rumor appears first elsewhere, MR's Page 1 stamp of approval on it tends to mean something.

[richard5mith]

Installed yesterday, upgrade over Panther, still waiting for the login window to appear. That's 28 hours now.

They weren't kidding when they said it took a while if you installed it that way.

[jared_kipe]

Old hat, I think there is a 8A3xx build now. All these builds still don't play nice with key software like macromedia products.

[me_94501]

AppleInsider must be getting hammered as it is not loading for me. Mirror?

[jsw]

This has been asked numerous times. Look no farther than you local Apple website and check out the "Tiger Preview" option it will explain to you as to why it IS a 64-bit OS. :D
Yup. See here (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html). Ah... fat binaries... brings back memories....

[MacsRgr8]

Suddenly the builds are emerging. After the WWDC build, it was a long time very quiet. But suddenly last week build nr. 8A268 emerged, and this weekend build nr. 8A294.
IMHO Tiger is getting "Beta status".

It could be that every two weeks orso, new builds will be seeded! Just like the Panther betas.

It's fun talking about these new build. Find out the new features and bugs :D

[tom.96]

Does anyone know if performance will be speeded up on G3/G4 machines? If so, what sort of boost would it be?

[BornAgainMac]

Installed yesterday, upgrade over Panther, still waiting for the login window to appear. That's 28 hours now.

They weren't kidding when they said it took a while if you installed it that way.

28 hours... 1 week... one month is nothing. Most people are probably going to have to wait until June of 2005. I just keep sitting on front of my G5 waiting for Tiger to appear in a press release for an actual shipping date.

I bet it's some permissions problem on your end.

[MacsRgr8]

Does anyone know if performance will be speeded up on G3/G4 machines? If so, what sort of boost would it be?

To be honest, I don't think there will be alot of difference. The major speed boosts like 10.0 >> 10.1 and 10.1 >> 10.2 are shrinking IHMO. The difference between 10.2 and 10.3 wasn't that huge, and I assume that the biggest speed advantages for 10.4 will be in CoreImage.
CoreImage, unfortunately, is only compatible with the latest grfx cards. I.e. the biggest boost will be for all G5's and G4's with Radeon 9700 or 9800.

[~Shard~]

"Apple has said that Tiger would be available in the first half of 2005, and TS is now claiming that it should be expected on or around wwdc05, in late June."

Just as I initially predicted - when Jobs said availble in the "first half of '05", he's going to wait until the very end of that "first half" to release it. Not surprising, although I know lots of people will want it sooner of course. Ah well, Panther's running just fine for me, and I'm still not sure if I'm going to upgrade or not...

[bankshot]

What with all but the portables being G5 by the time it's released (yes, eMacs soon to be too) it'd be nice to have X sail using mostly 64 bit. I'd even be willing to have one OS built for G4 and another built for G5 just so us G5 owners can finally take off the fuel governer and charge ahead full blast with 64 bit goodness, REALLY bringing our favorite forum word "snappy" to new heights.

I love how the term "64-bit" is thrown around as if it's some magical feature that'll double your computer's speed and cook your breakfast too. It's not (and it' won't).

First, you can already use 64 bit math (double precision floating point, 64-bit ints) in any program you like now. Any processor back to the G3 and before can do it. It'll be a bit more efficient on a G5 since the cpu supports it natively, but not overwhelmingly so. The vast, vast majority of software doesn't (and has no need to) use 64-bit math. Mostly scientific software will benefit, and probably already uses it!

Second, making Tiger "64-bit" will not magically speed up your G5. If everything in Tiger were 64-bit, you'd probably slow things down. Maybe even noticeably so. Remember, that means pushing around twice as much data for every operation.

The primary benefit to 64-bit support is allowing single processes to use more than 4 GB of memory. Again, this doesn't speed anything up, it just allows things to run that previously would have died when they ran out of memory. Except possibly in the rare case where a program that hit the 4 GB limit was smart enough to use temporary files on disk to keep going past that, but I don't know of many that do (maybe Photoshop? anyone??). In that case, assuming you have more than 4 GB in your machine to begin with, then yes, it'll speed up that one program by allowing it to access more physical ram.

But again, the primary area where this is useful is in scientific computing. I sometimes run some huge processing jobs at work that blast through the 4 GB memory barrier. I have to run them on slower Suns or SGIs because our G5 will kill those jobs under Panther. Tiger will be a welcome update, allowing me to run them on a much faster machine, utilizing more memory.

For most consumer applications, we're probably still a year or three off from that 32-bit limit becoming a major problem. And of course, there are 32-bit machines out there which have pushed the problem back a few more years by allowing 36-bit memory access, etc. Heck, from what I remember, doesn't the G5 limit memory addressing to something along these lines (36 or 40 bits)? It still does 64-bit computations natively of course.

Tiger is 64-bit, and also has 32-bit support. :) It will install which ever version if your HW will not support one or the other.

This doesn't quite sound right from everything I've read. I'm pretty sure there will be only one install of Tiger, supporting both 32-bit and 64-bit. Perhaps 64-bit support will be optional on non-G5 machines, but certainly not the other way around. Aside from the kernel, most of the work in supporting 64-bit processes comes in making 64-bit versions of all the various libraries and frameworks. If your application uses 64-bit memory pointers, any library it calls will also have to accept them. I imagine this part is no small task, but ultimately it should be completely transparent to the user. A 32-bit application will use 32-bit versions of libraries at runtime, and same for 64-bit.

Anyway, please correct me if I got anything a little wrong! ;)

[maya]

Does anyone know if performance will be speeded up on G3/G4 machines? If so, what sort of boost would it be?

Tom, there will be a marginally speed bump on a G3 and G4 system when comparing Panther and Tiger.

CoreImage will scale down however you will not have all the spiffy thingy-ma-jiggy effects for live screen manipulation unless you have the minimum Apple Loved Nvide VCard.

meaning everything will work with less effects. Same as fast user switching with the rotating effects of the screen.

So hold on tight, marginally faster is always better than nothing. :D

[maya]

I love how the term "64-bit" is thrown around as if it's some magical feature that'll double your computer's speed and cook your breakfast too. It's not (and it' won't).

First, you can already use 64 bit math (double precision floating point, 64-bit ints) in any program you like now. Any processor back to the G3 and before can do it. It'll be a bit more efficient on a G5 since the cpu supports it natively, but not overwhelmingly so. The vast, vast majority of software doesn't (and has no need to) use 64-bit math. Mostly scientific software will benefit, and probably already uses it!

Second, making Tiger "64-bit" will not magically speed up your G5. If everything in Tiger were 64-bit, you'd probably slow things down. Maybe even noticeably so. Remember, that means pushing around twice as much data for every operation.

The primary benefit to 64-bit support is allowing single processes to use more than 4 GB of memory. Again, this doesn't speed anything up, it just allows things to run that previously would have died when they ran out of memory. Except possibly in the rare case where a program that hit the 4 GB limit was smart enough to use temporary files on disk to keep going past that, but I don't know of many that do (maybe Photoshop? anyone??). In that case, assuming you have more than 4 GB in your machine to begin with, then yes, it'll speed up that one program by allowing it to access more physical ram.

But again, the primary area where this is useful is in scientific computing. I sometimes run some huge processing jobs at work that blast through the 4 GB memory barrier. I have to run them on slower Suns or SGIs because our G5 will kill those jobs under Panther. Tiger will be a welcome update, allowing me to run them on a much faster machine, utilizing more memory.

For most consumer applications, we're probably still a year or three off from that 32-bit limit becoming a major problem. And of course, there are 32-bit machines out there which have pushed the problem back a few more years by allowing 36-bit memory access, etc. Heck, from what I remember, doesn't the G5 limit memory addressing to something along these lines (36 or 40 bits)? It still does 64-bit computations natively of course.



This doesn't quite sound right from everything I've read. I'm pretty sure there will be only one install of Tiger, supporting both 32-bit and 64-bit. Perhaps 64-bit support will be optional on non-G5 machines, but certainly not the other way around. Aside from the kernel, most of the work in supporting 64-bit processes comes in making 64-bit versions of all the various libraries and frameworks. If your application uses 64-bit memory pointers, any library it calls will also have to accept them. I imagine this part is no small task, but ultimately it should be completely transparent to the user. A 32-bit application will use 32-bit versions of libraries at runtime, and same for 64-bit.

Anyway, please correct me if I got anything a little wrong! ;)

Please read the Apple site in reference to the "Tiger Preview". It is clear that they will use one package however it will do a HW scan to see if you have a 64 or 32-bit processor and install that packet. Its not going to go through the trouble of installing a 64-bit packet on a 32-bit chip what is the point.

So yes you will see a speed boost a marginally one for 32-bit and a significant one for 64-bit users. Lucky dogs. :D

[tny]

And please people do not compare Dashboard to Konf, this is just getting to be a tired subject. :rolleyes:

Konf uses javascript and Dashboard uses gadgets/widgets that are made with html and or CSS.


The fact that you made this distinction tells us all you have no idea what you're talking about. You can't do real programming logic with html and CSS, only presentation logic (look and feel).

[Xtremehkr]

Sounds like Tiger is going to be both a vast improvement and reliable from the start. Rushing the completion date is worse in some ways than prolonging the release date slightly so that it works the way it was designed to work. It's not like Jaguar is a pain to use or anything, it works just fine. I am looking forward to the new features though, and them working properly.

MacRumors may not be the first to get a story, but posting on Apple Insider or just reading the posts there is not much fun. There is a serious lack of humor there.

[millypede]

So what do you want to see picture wise??

[reckless_0001]

So what do you want to see picture wise??

How about... "Audio MIDI Setup" in the utilities folder. I'm curious what kind of changes have been made there. :p

[stevehaslip]

how about a full screen capture? showing the desktop and a finder window or something different in the middle? i wanna see the spotlight bars etc. :D

[ASP272]

Awesome! I just hope it all works, and they fix Font Book to actually be worth calling a font management program.

[jayscheuerle]

CoreImage, unfortunately, is only compatible with the latest grfx cards. I.e. the biggest boost will be for all G5's and G4's with Radeon 9700 or 9800.

CoreImage sounds like 99% of Apple users will never run into its being used. It's not like QuartzExtreme.

[manu chao]

It is clear that they will use one package however it will do a HW scan to see if you have a 64 or 32-bit processor and install that packet. Its not going to go through the trouble of installing a 64-bit packet on a 32-bit chip what is the point.

So the days of "Install once, boot everything from it" are going to be over? I know there were minor issues with that approach before, i.e. battery icons and other hardware related differences.

[jsw]

So the days of "Install once, boot everything from it" are going to be over? I know there were minor issues with that approach before, i.e. battery icons and other hardware related differences.
Well, as with the 16->32 bit transition, they might be over until every supported setup is 64 bit.

Or there might be an option to install fat binaries and never trim the excess.

[macaudiodj]

any one know how much faster this will make my g5 with 2 gb of ram and 9600xt

What persent?

[hulugu]

OS X is getting like Microsoft Word - just keep pilin' on them features no matter how obscure or unnecessary, and usability suffers.


Can I have some of what you're smoking?

[hob]

Tom, there will be a marginally speed bump on a G3 and G4 system when comparing Panther and Tiger.

CoreImage will scale down however you will not have all the spiffy thingy-ma-jiggy effects for live screen manipulation unless you have the minimum Apple Loved Nvide VCard.

meaning everything will work with less effects. Same as fast user switching with the rotating effects of the screen.

So hold on tight, marginally faster is always better than nothing. :D

Ok, so I'm guessing the entire new lineup of iBooks/Powerbooks/iMacs etc. will support it but if it's coming out in July my Powerbook will be just over a year old. I get the feeling that I won't be able to support many of the new CoreImage functions on my "measley" 32MB graphics card.... is that the case? I might stick with 10.3 for now if it is - I remember my G3 iBook was fine on 10.2 (the os it came with) but never seemed quite the same on 10.3!

Hob

[jsw]

any one know how much faster this will make my g5 with 2 gb of ram and 9600xt

What persent?That depends entirely on what you're doing. Disk-access-based stuff is going to be essentially or exactly the same speed. GPU-based stuff will, again, not depend on Tiger. Really, you'd need to wait at least another few months for a build which is closer to the final product to even begin to speculate.

[NeoMayhem]

I am using it now as my main OS, except for some Carbon Toolbars not working, everything is pretty smooth.

I love Mail 2.0, and safari 2.0 is a lot better then the 1x versions. I cant wait to see Mails interface deployed to some more apps to replace brushed.

iChat is pretty cool now, I still have not done a 3 way video chat, but I will try that soon.

Automator works pretty well now, I cant wait to see what people are able to do with this app, it is pretty simple yet powerful.

Burnable folders are interesting, but I dont really have any need for them.

PM me if you want screenshots of anything, and I can post them later tonight.

[logicat2001]

The fact that you made this distinction tells us all you have no idea what you're talking about. You can't do real programming logic with html and CSS, only presentation logic (look and feel).

That's why widgets use Javascript, or even Cocoa or Carbon as you see fit.

Do your reading before you starting fighting, folks. (http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/index.html)

Best,
Logicat

[bankshot]

Please read the Apple site in reference to the "Tiger Preview". It is clear that they will use one package however it will do a HW scan to see if you have a 64 or 32-bit processor and install that packet. Its not going to go through the trouble of installing a 64-bit packet on a 32-bit chip what is the point.

I've read through the Tiger preview pages many times and haven't seen anything of the sort. Where did you see this? Certainly not on the Tiger 64 bit page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html).

I'd be willing to bet that they'll have a "64-bit subsystem" or something to that effect, which is mandatory for G5 users and optional for G4 and below. As someone else mentioned, if you don't have the 64-bit stuff installed, you lose the "install once, run anywhere" functionality. There's no reason not to offer it as an option, turned off by default for 32-bit processors.

So yes you will see a speed boost a marginally one for 32-bit and a significant one for 64-bit users. Lucky dogs. :D

Uhh, no. Where's the significant speed boost for 64-bit users? Like I said before, there's only a speed boost if you have an application that needs more than 4 gigs of virtual memory, and you have more than that much physical RAM. There's probably a few tweaks for 64-bit here and there, but by and large I expect them to be just the same as for 32-bit users. The point of my original post was that many people still mistakenly think that 64-bit support is some magic feature that will automatically speed up a G5. It won't. Panther already supports 64-bit math, all they're really adding in Tiger are 64-bit pointers. Read the above linked page - it says just as much. Doubling the size of a pointer does nothing to your speed.

I just want to help try to clear things up, since I see this misconception so often. I have no doubt that Apple continues to optimize and try to make Tiger even faster than Panther, but very, very little of that should be related in any way to 64-bit vs. 32-bit.

[AidenShaw]

I love how the term "64-bit" is thrown around as if it's some magical feature that'll double your computer's speed and cook your breakfast too. It's not (and it' won't).

First, you can already use 64 bit math (double precision floating point, 64-bit ints) in any program you like now. Any processor back to the G3 and before can do it. It'll be a bit more efficient on a G5 since the cpu supports it natively, but not overwhelmingly so....

Anyway, please correct me if I got anything a little wrong! ;)

I think you know this, but your explanation doesn't explicitly say that 64-bit floating point hardware support is already in the 68K, 60x, G3, G4, Pentium, and even the 286/386/486 via the FP co-processor.

Only 64-bit integer hardware support is new for the PPC970 (and x86-64). The vast majority of compilers support 64-bit in software on the rest of the machines.

64-bit integer math is actually used by everyone here every day, but it isn't in performance-critical areas of the system. (If you can create a file bigger than 4 GiB, your system is using 64-bit arithmetic to describe the size of and offsets into a file.)

[Porchland]

AppleInsider says today here (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=729) that Safari for Tiger is going to support native PDF.

Finally! That's my No. 1 gripe about Safari is that it saves PDFs to the desktop and launches them in Preview instead of directly in Safari.

As to RSS support, I'll be curious to see whether it's any better than NetNewWire Lite, which, as far as I'm concerned, does everything I need it to do.

[movabi]

any word on the finder? the dock? springloaded folders in the dock (don't expect it but it would be a pleasant surprise)

[dstorey]

I guess that native PDF in safari is in no small part to the new PDFKit built into Tiger. PDFKit being to preview what WebKit is to Safari. As there is now a framework for pdf viewing and manipulation, adding to safari would have been trivial. I guess quicktime movies will be playable in safari through the new QTKit too, as Quicktime player has been rebuilt using QTKit, and looks very impressive, with live resizing etc. Now we just need real and windows media plug-ins so the desktop doesn't get littered with them little files when you just want to stream audio or video.

[Punani]

AppleInsider says today here (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=729) that Safari for Tiger is going to support native PDF.

Finally! That's my No. 1 gripe about Safari is that it saves PDFs to the desktop and launches them in Preview instead of directly in Safari.This isn't really any different from what Windows does, it's just saved to the Desktop.

Saved to ~/Temp -> Launch Browser Plugin -> Opens PDF in ~/Temp

[Mechcozmo]

any word on the finder? the dock? springloaded folders in the dock (don't expect it but it would be a pleasant surprise)

That would make my year. Apple please read this! Control-clicking on a PowerBook is a pain in the butt. Having a spring loaded folder, now, that would be great!

Any devs out there want to test it out for me and movabi?

[daveL]

I've read through the Tiger preview pages many times and haven't seen anything of the sort. Where did you see this? Certainly not on the Tiger 64 bit page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html).

I'd be willing to bet that they'll have a "64-bit subsystem" or something to that effect, which is mandatory for G5 users and optional for G4 and below. As someone else mentioned, if you don't have the 64-bit stuff installed, you lose the "install once, run anywhere" functionality. There's no reason not to offer it as an option, turned off by default for 32-bit processors.



Uhh, no. Where's the significant speed boost for 64-bit users? Like I said before, there's only a speed boost if you have an application that needs more than 4 gigs of virtual memory, and you have more than that much physical RAM. There's probably a few tweaks for 64-bit here and there, but by and large I expect them to be just the same as for 32-bit users. The point of my original post was that many people still mistakenly think that 64-bit support is some magic feature that will automatically speed up a G5. It won't. Panther already supports 64-bit math, all they're really adding in Tiger are 64-bit pointers. Read the above linked page - it says just as much. Doubling the size of a pointer does nothing to your speed.

I just want to help try to clear things up, since I see this misconception so often. I have no doubt that Apple continues to optimize and try to make Tiger even faster than Panther, but very, very little of that should be related in any way to 64-bit vs. 32-bit.
I agree with you totally. Unless your doing 64-bit integer math with high frequency or need 64-bit memory pointers, then a 64-bit app is more likely to run a bit slower, rather than faster. A 64-bit app is going to use up cache a lot quicker than a 32-bit app. There are certain apps that benefit greatly from 64-bit capabilities, but most do not. However, this may change over time as we get deeper into the digital media evolution.

[jsw]

That would make my year. Apple please read this! Control-clicking on a PowerBook is a pain in the butt...Or, God forbid, they could add a second mouse button to the next generation of PBs....

[nek]

For most consumer applications, we're probably still a year or three off from that 32-bit limit becoming a major problem. And of course, there are 32-bit machines out there which have pushed the problem back a few more years by allowing 36-bit memory access, etc. Heck, from what I remember, doesn't the G5 limit memory addressing to something along these lines (36 or 40 bits)? It still does 64-bit computations natively of course.


I agree, the G4 supports 36 bit addresses and the G5 supports 42 bit addresses, that would mean that the G4 supports 68GB of physical memory and the G5 supports 4TB. So I guess thats not much of an advantage in reality, except for the support for more virtual memory. The G5 could also perform 64bit math in fewer clock cycles, but its main advantage today is its support for faster buses rather than being 64bits. Except for scientific computing, which will make use of that extra memory, etc.

But on to Tiger... its looking good but I hope it is released before June. I will likely be buying a new computer before then and I don't want to have to buy Tiger after the fact.

[Mechcozmo]

Or, God forbid, they could add a second mouse button to the next generation of PBs....

The sun will explode before Apple does that, I hope you know. And the sun will take a few trillion years.

Far easier to just add spring-loaded folders to the dock. And Earth doesn't have to be destroyed. I have this kind of... personal attachment to it you could say.

[rand()]

CoreImage sounds like 99% of Apple users will never run into its being used. It's not like QuartzExtreme.

Although you're right that not as many users will see a difference as with Quartz Extreme, it's going to be a much bigger percentage than 1%.

Many, many graphics, design, and film/video outfits are using Macs to get their work done. Considering that Photoshop (as I understand it) will have extensions to make filters use CoreImage, and FCP/Motion are going to be taking advantage of CoreVideo, that makes quite a large percentage of Mac users that will be quite happy with this addition.

I'm going to take a wild guess that at least 1 out of 3 macs out there in production use by June of next year are going to have a vidcard that can take advantage of it. And anybody that does can see the effects simply in Dashboard or iPhoto.

Just my 2 cents.

-rand()

[jsw]

The sun will explode before Apple does that, I hope you know. I know. ;) It's just that one-button fanaticism and not allowing us to resize windows from more than one spot that annoy me. Still, how can I test my love for Apple if there are no problems to deal with?

[Mechcozmo]

Still, how can I test my love for Apple if there are no problems to deal with?

Take a real Macintosh Apple at stick it up your nose. ;) That will be a lot harder to get out than you thought... :D

[virus1]

mm.. sounds good... ive downloaded it but left all my dvds at my dad's house... guess i will have to wait till next week..

[~Shard~]

Or, God forbid, they could add a second mouse button to the next generation of PBs....

That's crazy talk! Quit talking crazy! You're crazy...

[magikpants]

Please read the Apple site in reference to the "Tiger Preview". It is clear that they will use one package however it will do a HW scan to see if you have a 64 or 32-bit processor and install that packet. Its not going to go through the trouble of installing a 64-bit packet on a 32-bit chip what is the point.

So yes you will see a speed boost a marginally one for 32-bit and a significant one for 64-bit users. Lucky dogs. :D

Hmmm....I don't see anything on that page that makes it clear that there will be a hardware scan to figure out what kind of processor you have. In fact, I don't see that it's clearly stated that this is a 64-bit OS. It supports the memory addressing for 64-bit apps, but the headline for the page is 64-bit Features, not THE WORLD'S FIRST 64-bit OS FOR THE DESKTOP!!!! which you know would be Apple's marketing route if they came up with a fully 64-bit OS.

At present, the ROI for creating a 64-bit OS would be awful. There are too many 32-bit machines out there, and they just asked their developers 4 years ago to totally rewrite their apps for OSX. They wouldn't ask them to adopt an entirely different architecture that soon. Moving to true 64-bit is a huge deal. Look at the first gen Itanium chips. They were pure 64-bit chips. Their OS was pure 64-bit. Intel took a huge hit for that though, and had to put a 32-bit emulator in the Itanium-2.

Small developers would be seriously peeved if they had to rewrite their entire code for a program to make it work on a G5. So, the main kernel and the G5 itself are hybrid. They can run 32-bit and 64-bit. For Tiger, the kernel will be similar to Panther in that respect, though a bit tweaked (still based on BSD 5, but 5.x this go round). It's still primarily a 32-bit app, but it supports 64-bit apps, and this go round the OS will get more of a speed bump if you throw more than 2Gb of RAM in it.

But, if you're throwing more than 2Gb of RAM in your machine, the main thing that you'll be peeved about is not the fact that the OS is not 64-bit, but is the fact that there are very few apps out there that are 64-bit. Who cares if the finder is just a little bit faster when you have 3Gbs of RAM in your G5? If you have 3Gbs of RAM, you better have some serious video or audio programs or scientific cluster apps to test it out on, because 64-bit mail will not be able to type what you want it to say before you touch the keyboard - and that's about the only way to seriously speed up mail at this point (besides increasing your bandwidth).

So, if you want a 64-bit OS, you'll have to wait, but if you have some crazy role in breaking your own genome, Tiger will give you the ability to support apps that will break that code. People have asked that since the G5 came out: will this be the 64-bit OS? This question means next to nothing unless you are willing to shell out for more than 2Gb of RAM and unless you have 64-bit apps. This is not a 64-bit OS, but it will support 64-bit apps (which Panther already did, but mainly for highly specialized scientific programs) and will encourage 64-bit app development in XCode 2.0 for apps that are RAM intensive (audio/video and number crunching apps).

There is only one kernel that is installed, which is 32-bit, but it will have a 64-bit libSystem file for 64-bit machines. But don't expect a 64-bit version of iLife anytime soon, and when it does come, please make fun of Apple for wasting a huge amount of money for making an app 64-bit that doesn't need to be.

So, to address the point made in the post I quoted, G5 users will not find the Tiger OS too much faster than Panther (at least not much faster than Panther was over Jaguar), but they will find that 64-bit versions of apps (when you can find them) will be much faster than their 32-bit predecessors. But, if you want to get more than 2Gb of memory, go right ahead - just don't expect Spotlight to run any faster when you do.

[guifa]

The keyboard menu has an interesting new look, although I'm still debating whether or not I like it. It has a gray block with a white character supposedly to represent the language. But if Icelandic, which uses the Roman script, has ð as its defining character, and Turkish, also Roman, has g-caron, but Spanish, for instance, just as a, instead ñ. Would seem French would need ç, or Portuguese ã, or German ß etc. All of those just have a.

As well, Character Palette has changed once again.

SSL connexions are still disabled. Safari is unable to connect to HTTPS pages, nor is iTunes able to connect to the iTMS. Was this way in the last beta.

[swissmann]

I'm still waiting for a good reason to justify upgrading. A lot of features but none that hook me yet. I also would like more focus to be put on squashing bugs rather than introducing new ones in new little features.

[maxvamp]

I'm still waiting for a good reason to justify upgrading. A lot of features but none that hook me yet. I also would like more focus to be put on squashing bugs rather than introducing new ones in new little features

Don't... If it ( Panther ) works for you, don't fix it.

I have several Jaguar machines that do what they are supposed to, and work well.

Max.

[Mac-Xpert]

I tried out this (on panther) and it works just fine for me :Q weird.I checked it again, and I was actually wrong when I said that Panther ignores everything over the first typed number or letter, when selecting a file in the finder. It does however work different from Jaguar or Os-9. I now figured out that it does respond to the additional numbers but it won't jump to a file starting with for instance 18001-xxx when you only type 18. It doesn't see 18001 as starting with a 1 and 8 but only as whole number (18001), so I have to type the whole number to get it to jump to the right file. I guess Apple would say that it supposed to work like that, but I don't think it is very handy.

In our system most files have a Job-number that's something like 18001. So only having to type 18 to jump to that file is much easier and faster than having to type the whole number.

But this will probably not change in Tiger.

In sorry for being a bit off-topic..

[dicklacara]

Old hat, I think there is a 8A3xx build now. All these builds still don't play nice with key software like macromedia products.

What particulat MM Products are you having problems with?

I run several versions of ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 without any apparent problems.

Dick

[AmigoMac]

I just read more info about Tiger and the GUI changes and general modifications, I'll be very happy ordering the new cat OS as soon as I can.
next year will be another kickass year for apple and the mac crowd.

[g4cubed]

AppleInsider says today here (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=729) that Safari for Tiger is going to support native PDF.

Finally! That's my No. 1 gripe about Safari is that it saves PDFs to the desktop and launches them in Preview instead of directly in Safari.

As to RSS support, I'll be curious to see whether it's any better than NetNewWire Lite, which, as far as I'm concerned, does everything I need it to do.
I have to agree with you on the No. 1 complain with Safari. It's a pain in the *** to have to open preview all the time.

[johnnyjibbs]

I have to agree with you on the No. 1 complain with Safari. It's a pain in the *** to have to open preview all the time.
Lets hope Safari gains Preview's fast rendering engine then. I would assume that it will.

[georgec]

I have to agree with you on the No. 1 complain with Safari. It's a pain in the *** to have to open preview all the time.

You guys should really check out the Schubert PDF plugin at http://www.schubert-it.com/pluginpdf/

It's completely changed my life since installing it! Agreed, having it built in to Safari will be great, but until next year.....

[devman]

You are right of course but give it up. I've tried before to get people here to see this but they just don't want to. See some of my replies in this thread http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=90777

This is in reply to magikpants #77

[NeoMayhem]

Screenshot for you, I cant make it any bigger and still have it less then 100k to upload here, sorry.

[wdlove]

Screenshot for you, I cant make it any bigger and still have it less then 100k to upload here, sorry.

That's too bad. I had to use a magnifying glass just so that I could make out 10.4 pre-release. Thanks for the effort. :)

[g4cubed]

You guys should really check out the Schubert PDF plugin at http://www.schubert-it.com/pluginpdf/

It's completely changed my life since installing it! Agreed, having it built in to Safari will be great, but until next year.....
Thanks, I'll check it out here in a bit. :D

[Punani]

So, the main kernel and the G5 itself are hybrid. They can run 32-bit and 64-bit. For Tiger, the kernel will be similar to Panther in that respect, though a bit tweaked (still based on BSD 5, but 5.x this go round).Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 64-bit instructions to the POWER instruction set an add-on? Not some tacked 64-bit extensions, but a real 64-bit instruction set. And applications that can properly exploit the 64-bit instructions do so, 32-bit applications just don't "see" the instructions. It's just like MIPS.

I'm not sure if the kernel is going to be a hybrid, it took SGI a good 5 to 7 years to make the move from 32-bit to a full 64-bit OS, so I wouldn't be surprised as it's a "bit" obnoxious to move everything over, and we may not see full 64-bit integration until 10.7, depending on when Apple chooses to release future revisions. However, XNU--the kernel is based off CMU Mach 3, with the BSD layer. I am unsure to the importance of saying that it uses 5.x this time, as it's still the same basic source tree...

[Rincewind42]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 64-bit instructions to the POWER instruction set an add-on? Not some tacked 64-bit extensions, but a real 64-bit instruction set. And applications that can properly exploit the 64-bit instructions do so, 32-bit applications just don't "see" the instructions. It's just like MIPS.

The PowerPC instruction set is actually a 64-bit instruction set. There is a 32-bit subset that up until the PPC970 was all that was implemented in mainstream PowerPC chips. The PowerPC was always meant to be a 64-bit architecture.

I'm not sure if the kernel is going to be a hybrid, it took SGI a good 5 to 7 years to make the move from 32-bit to a full 64-bit OS, so I wouldn't be surprised as it's a "bit" obnoxious to move everything over, and we may not see full 64-bit integration until 10.7, depending on when Apple chooses to release future revisions. However, XNU--the kernel is based off CMU Mach 3, with the BSD layer. I am unsure to the importance of saying that it uses 5.x this time, as it's still the same basic source tree...

The Mac OS X kernel is 64-bits, it does all memory addressing in a 64-bit memory space. This is required for using the 970 among other things. The user space is limited to 32-bit addressing (which is changing with Tiger). However most of the frameworks in Tiger will still be limited to the 32-bit environment. At some point in the future most of these frameworks may become 64-bit enabled, but that future is probably a few versions away (as you say). But then again, Apple could be planning this for as soon as 10.5.

[MacSA]

Seems like a long time away still.

I like the new features that have been proposed, but it remains to be seen if they can deliver on everything. Of course I have more faith in Tiger than I do in Longhorn! :p

If it is released at the end of June, by that time I bet all of Apples new range of computers will have hardware to fully exploit what Tiger will have to offer - eMacs and iBooks. ;)

[maxvamp]

Intel has a clean architecture ready to move into the desktop space....

I have a HP Itanic sitting not 15 feet from me.... It is not as you described. Actually, it makes a nice, but noisy space heater...

Itanium cons....

- VERY little software written for it
- X86 software runs as if it was running on a 200 MHz pentium ( emulated )
- Very Expensive ( $8k for HP Base Unit sitting here )

Itanic Pros
- Fastest Math out there
- 64-bit addressing


Sorry, Itanuim is not on the fast track to be adopted.

Max.

[guifa]

The keyboard menu has an interesting new look, although I'm still debating whether or not I like it. It has a gray block with a white character supposedly to represent the language. But if Icelandic, which uses the Roman script, has ð as its defining character, and Turkish, also Roman, has g-caron, but Spanish, for instance, just as a, instead ñ. Would seem French would need ç, or Portuguese ã, or German ß etc. All of those just have a.
And here's the pic to go with it. They do tend to go with the gray-scale rules that Apple has for all things up there in the menu, yet, it just doesn't have the same feeling of the flags (though, the flags were not always present, sometimes odd icons). I think I like it, Windows-esque as it may be.

There's also more word orderings in International.

[rendezvouscp]

They really should use the flags. It makes the countries stand out more, and looks a lot better.

I really miss the two blue corners too. I didn't find it that distracting, and it actually looked pretty good when you are actually working with the OS (I didn't like how it looked on the WWDC preview stream).
-Chase

[cb911]

oohhhoo... kewl. :p another Tiger seed. this development sure is moving along... can't wait to see it released to us... :D

for all you sceptics - you just wait and see until you use Tiger, then i'm sure you'll be convinced of all these improvements. ;)

[Mechcozmo]

No matter what, Tiger will be a great OS. 64 bit or not, I know that I will be upgrading to Tiger fairly soon after it is released. Not to say that Panther is bad. But Tiger will be a good OS.


I just feel bad for those still using 10.1, which is painful if you try and use it after months of Jaguar/Panther.

[wdlove]

They really should use the flags. It makes the countries stand out more, and looks a lot better.

I really miss the two blue corners too. I didn't find it that distracting, and it actually looked pretty good when you are actually working with the OS (I didn't like how it looked on the WWDC preview stream).
-Chase

I'm sure that over the next many months of work on Tiger, esthetic improvements will also be made. The flags would make a nicer appearance. I wonder which will be the first developer to make the first use of Tiger's 64 bit.

[reckless_0001]

Have all the people's Macs who are running the new Tiger builds crashed or they just all joined a new "I don't wanna share anything" club? :D

[Rincewind42]

Have all the people's Macs who are running the new Tiger builds crashed or they just all joined a new "I don't wanna share anything" club? :D

If you legally have the Tiger Beta, you can't share anything because of your NDA. If you illegally have the Tiger Beta, then I'm sure your busy scouring the build for new things to talk about :)

[reckless_0001]

If you legally have the Tiger Beta, you can't share anything because of your NDA. If you illegally have the Tiger Beta, then I'm sure your busy scouring the build for new things to talk about :)

Naw, I don't have the new build. I don't plan on touching it until it comes out. But, I just like hearing about the new features and looking at the screenshots.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Answer: Apple :-)

I'm sure that over the next many months of work on Tiger, esthetic improvements will also be made. The flags would make a nicer appearance. I wonder which will be the first developer to make the first use of Tiger's 64 bit.

[mkramer]

I'm sure that over the next many months of work on Tiger, esthetic improvements will also be made. The flags would make a nicer appearance. I wonder which will be the first developer to make the first use of Tiger's 64 bit.

Personally, I've always hated the flags. The color and harsh patterns were too noisy next to all the other smooth gray and black icons. But that's just me.

As for 64-bit developer stuff, the work I do has been using the 64-bit math available in the G5 since it came out. I know that really has nothing to do with Tiger, but it's far more useful in my realm of development than getting 64-bit addressing. Not to say I don't have uses for it.

[Swift]

Yeah but is it OPTIMIZED for the G5 FINALLY??? :confused:

It is. 64-bit. It's very quick, even at this stage. Spotlight, and the new Widgets are terrific. Quicktime 6.6. Mail 2.0 looks good. "Burnable Folders"? Automated Applescripts? Very sweet.

[tateusmaximus]

G5 tiger powerbook early next year here we come!!!
:D :D :D

[aafuss1]

Appleinsider has an article which has a link to an ADC document that discusses various Spotlight features in Tiger:

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=733

I was very impressed with the details of Spotlight that was in the document.

[thecombatwombat]

. . .my Powerbook will be just over a year old. I get the feeling that I won't be able to support many of the new CoreImage functions on my "measley" 32MB graphics card....

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html

If your powerbook has the 5200 go (and I think it does) you'll be supported.

[veedubdrew]

This build is very very quick on my machine. Responses to user interface elements are instant and windows (finally) resize smoothly and quickly. Some apps seem to take advantage of whatever they're using to make window resizing smooth while others are using the old method. The most dramatic display of this new resizing ability is in Preview. I can open a 4MP image in Preview, have it "resize to fit window" and scale the window up and down from a tiny pic to full screen, the whole while the system is scaling the image and the window with ZERO jitters. Very impressive. I can even have a portion of the image selected (with translucency, of course) and the selection will scale glassy smooth right along with the window and image while resizing.

Spotlight is VERY fast, virtually instant. It finds some pretty impressive stuff that I had even forgot was on my HDD. Safari renders pages much, much faster. There's nice little details throughout the OS too. DVD Player will keep playing a movie even if minimized to dock. System Profiler is far more thorough in its detail of hardware and software. Mail looks great but is very very buggy. Well for that matter, the whole OS is still really buggy, but we're a long way off from GM release, of course.

Overall, I'm extremely excited about this release. There are so many thoughtful details and such a dramatic UI "snappiness" improvement that I'm just counting the days until release. I'd say the UI improvement is on par with going from 10.1.5 to 10.3.5. Tiger is WELL WORTH $129 and I'm looking forward to forking over my cash.

-Drew

[Catfish_Man]

This build is very very quick on my machine. Responses to user interface elements are instant and windows (finally) resize smoothly and quickly. Some apps seem to take advantage of whatever they're using to make window resizing smooth while others are using the old method. The most dramatic display of this new resizing ability is in Preview. I can open a 4MP image in Preview, have it "resize to fit window" and scale the window up and down from a tiny pic to full screen, the whole while the system is scaling the image and the window with ZERO jitters. Very impressive. I can even have a portion of the image selected (with translucency, of course) and the selection will scale glassy smooth right along with the window and image while resizing.

Spotlight is VERY fast, virtually instant. It finds some pretty impressive stuff that I had even forgot was on my HDD. Safari renders pages much, much faster. There's nice little details throughout the OS too. DVD Player will keep playing a movie even if minimized to dock. System Profiler is far more thorough in its detail of hardware and software. Mail looks great but is very very buggy. Well for that matter, the whole OS is still really buggy, but we're a long way off from GM release, of course.

Overall, I'm extremely excited about this release. There are so many thoughtful details and such a dramatic UI "snappiness" improvement that I'm just counting the days until release. I'd say the UI improvement is on par with going from 10.1.5 to 10.3.5. Tiger is WELL WORTH $129 and I'm looking forward to forking over my cash.

-Drew

My guess is that they implemented the window resize optimization that they mentioned in the developer notes for the WWDC build (which apps specifically have to use for it to be in effect). I certainly wasn't expecting the kinds of improvements people have been talking about from it though... so maybe there's something else as well. Looking at your sig, I admire your taste in equipment :)

[GRAHAMUK]

OS X is getting like Microsoft Word - just keep pilin' on them features no matter how obscure or unnecessary, and usability suffers.

I think smart folders alone will radically change the way you work with files, and my feeling is that this will improve usability massively.

[maxvamp]

G5 tiger powerbook early next year here we come!!!

If one is looking to add a G5 to a powerbook because it will offer 64-bit in a laptop, they are misguided in the ways of the true power they will gain...

The things a G5 will bring you in a PowerBook is :

- Warmer lap
- Faster memory bus
- Faster clock speed ( maybe )
- Slower Altivec
- Shorter battery life
- Logic board problems, ala iBook
- Bragging rights.

I doubt that anyone will even be able to use a majority of the enhancments that a 64-bit proc would bring, due to configuration limitations.

I personally would like to see a G5 in a powerBook, but not for the 64 bitness of the chip. That would be useless, even with Gentoo.

Max.

[movabi]

Anyone know what the finder and dock are like... Improvements, features, speed? :confused:

[killergator]

I have a dual monitor setup. I have a 20" cinema display sitting to the right of a 17" display. When the arraingment is set so that they act as one giant monitor from left to right, I can no longer point the mouse at an object on the screen and hightlight it. It will actually create a grab box all the way across the other side of the monitor. If I try to hightlight the hd on the top right of the 20 " screen it will grab at the top left of the 20" screen. IF I arrainge the monitors in the display control panel so that I say the 17" is actually to the right of my 20" display, the cursor works as it should. I did a fresh full install so it's not a matter of old code mixing with new code. This is flat out just broken in the latest release of Tiger. I have reported it to apple. lets see what the next iteration of Tiger brings. As far as all the fun stuff..well I'm enjoying it.

[Catfish_Man]

I think smart folders alone will radically change the way you work with files, and my feeling is that this will improve usability massively.

Smart folders yes... burnable folders though? That just seems like a hack. How about a "burn" button in the Finder toolbar that burns the contents of the current window?

[wms121]

..from an "embedded person".

1. Can you run AIX 4.x on the G5 (not the ppc970 blades..the Apple boxes)?

2. (and if SO)...can you run 64-bit Java with both MacOSX and AIX...and
server (Apache?) software?

3. Anyone running genuine (IBM) 64bit Java apps now on the new Tiger
builds?

4. Anyone running other similar virtual machine programs (i.e. Linux,Jinux
etc.?


The new COAS/COSA architecture..is coming along for IBM (in Open MP) and its new Cell Processing machines see:

http://site.gamehack.net/index.php?act=home

http://cap.anu.edu.au/cap/arch/cap.html

http://www.simsysresearch.com/ssrc/en/research/parallel_cell.htm

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-948493.html

http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-870.html


...hmmm.

I had more URL's for you guys....but the old COAS/COSA site just "disappeared".

Someone is very nervous.

WW






Does Big Steve plan BIG IBM announcements soon? Cell "systems"support in the Tiger (tachyon?) builds after June 2005 might get MacOSX over the top and out front for the entire UNIX community. Jobs has a better shot overtaking the Solaris12 people than eating Bill Gates sack lunch.

ww