The Positive side of Bush winning

[atszyman]

There are definitely a lot of us on this board who are extremely disappointed in the results of yesterday's election. Many of us are angry/frightened/sad at what the prospects of the next four years will bring. I thought I might try to start a thread that may help to alleviate some of the fears by trying to list the positives of what the next four years might bring.

1. Iraq : This administration has a lot riding on Iraq especially when you realize that there won't be an incumbent to run in 2008 unless Cheney steps down as VP (which I don't see happening). Iraq will have to be a resounding success or there will have an extremely hard time in '08. Kerry had the option to always blame it on his predecessor. The current administration doesn't have that option.

2. Economy : Both sides want the economy to improve and we have been growing albeit slowly. However, a slow sustained growth is probably better in the long run if we can keep it going.

3. Smaller government : This is going to be a must for the current administration. If they truly want more tax cuts there is no way the Federal Govt. will be able to spend like does now and come anywhere close to reducing the deficits.

Let's try to keep this one positive so that some of us might be able to peacefully come to terms with the prospect of another four years of Bush.

[kuyu]

Good thread!

1) Tax Cuts, smaller government: These two shouldn't be too hard with the new Senate and the conservative Democrats in 3-4 seats. Rumor is that Bush's cabinet is leaning towards www.fairtax.org which would dissolve the IRS.

2) Economy: Actually, it's growing too fast. That's why the Fed keeps raising rates by 25 basis points. The timing of the pending tax cuts needs to be perfect to keep things in check.

3) Markets: Expect to see HUGE gains in the market over the next two years. With the economy back, spending up, and productivity at an all time high corporate earnings will soar. Look for personal tech, transportation, retail, and stay away from google. Also, fuel markets will likely top out in early december, and steady out around $40 - $42 /barrel.

4) Bi-Partisanship: Hopefully Bush will do what's best for America, and dump Ashcroft and Rumsfeld. He should appoint a strong Democrat to Atty Gen. Bush could do a lot to end the hateful partisanship by stepping across party lines for his cabinet.

[atszyman]

4) Bi-Partisanship: Hopefully Bush will do what's best for America, and dump Ashcroft and Rumsfeld. He should appoint a strong Democrat to Atty Gen. Bush could do a lot to end the hateful partisanship by stepping across party lines for his cabinet.

That would do wonders for helping a lot of us cope.

[makisushi]

I am absolutely in favor of so called "smaller government"

I want privatised Social Security, I want to be able to decide how I want to invest it. If i make poor choices, well then its my own fault.

I love Medical savings plans, and I am in the process of switching my company over to it.

[yg17]

That would do wonders for helping a lot of us cope.

Lets just hope bush does that, I have a feeling he'll be keeping Rummy and Asscroft

[QCassidy352]

Republicans don't believe in smaller government. They want you to believe that they do, but they don't. The federal government shrunk under Clinton and has grown under Bush. Republicans believe in less regulation of business and more regulation of your personal life. Democrats the reverse.

Bush has no interest in bi-partisanship. He told that lie last time, and some people bought it. But the last 4 years have shown bush to be bull headed, stubborn, and self righteous. He has no interest in compromising with anyone - not the 49% of the american people that voted against him, not foreign nations, not democrats.

Your thread is a nice idea, but there just aren't any upsides that I can see. The economy has gotten worse in the last 4 years. The country is at greater, not less, risk of attack thanks to Bush policies. Unemployment is up, the budget deficit is at record levels. And now, we're going to have decades of the Bush Court. I'm not going to pretend that there's a silver lining when there are nothing but black thunder clouds.

[3rdpath]

well at least bush will now have to clean up his own iraq mess. kerry was in a no-win situation there. the adage of " you break it, you buy it" has never been truer.

finally the bush administration won't be able to blame everything that's going wrong on the previous administration because they are the previous administration.

[atszyman]

Republicans don't believe in smaller government. They want you to believe that they do, but they don't. The federal government shrunk under Clinton and has grown under Bush. Republicans believe in less regulation of business and more regulation of your personal life. Democrats the reverse.

I never said that it would be smaller govt. by choice. This would be smaller govt. by necessity.

I realize that not everyone is going to agree on the "good" things that the next 4 years of Bush could lead to. But I need to believe that there will be some good. Hopefully this list will give some people a littel comfort.

[SiliconAddict]

On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.

[zelmo]

Nice idea for a thread. There are a lot of folks who are really upset by the election results, and not just because Bush is in for another four years. I hope we can keep this one thread more upbeat - Lord knows there are already plenty of Bush bashing threads available for folks to tirade in.

[QCassidy352]

I never said that it would be smaller govt. by choice. This would be smaller govt. by necessity.

How do you figure? What have you seen from this administration thus far that would lead you to believe that?

[makisushi]

On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.
even in a positive thread, there is bashing.

[mactastic]

On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.

Calling your opposition stupid isn't the way to win friends or get things done. At least frame the argument better.

[wowser]

If he can do away with Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz, then it won't be so bad.

[redAPPLE]

how about this... i love watching michael moore bushomentaries... :cool:

---

"its been a bad day.
Please dont take a picture
Its been a bad day. " - rem

[Mr_Ed]

On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.

Everyone acknowledges there is still the possibility of terrorist acts against the United States. Holding an "I told you so" sign when it happens does not exactly show a great deal of insight on your part, and as mactastic pointed out, calling your opposition "stupid" won't help us get anything done.

[kuyu]

On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.

We're not all stupid. I'm getting sick of this. I voted on facts. I drew up a list of issues, and Bush had more checks than Kerry. Terrorism was a tie in my list. They're presidents, not force fields.

Don't you see what your elitist, partisan comments are doing to this country? It's fine to disagree, in fact, disagreement is encouraged. But, mud-slinging and deragotory comments about anyone with a different opinion than you is counter productive. I assure you, the best way to move America forward does NOT involve a civil war.

The Republican's cleaned up last night. Period. What's best now is to work towards comprimise and the best interest of the aggregate. This is our country too. I would hope that people realize that this rabid hate for your fellow countrymen is doomed to hurt whichever party makes it their core mantra, as evidenced last night.
:)

[atszyman]

How do you figure? What have you seen from this administration thus far that would lead you to believe that?

If they are serious about cutting the deficit they will either have to raise taxes or cut government. They seem to loathe the former option and if they expect to have any chance in '08 they need to reduce the deficits. I believe that there are many people who are willing to forgive deficits in wartime but if we're not out of Iraq and/or are still running the huge deficits in '08 the GOP is going to have a really hard run at the White House.

The object of this thread was to give myself and the rest of thee angry Democrats something positive to focus on rather than the negatives that we have focused on for the last year.

Please I urge you all to keep the party bashing to the many other threads that have already done a fine job of hammering the negative home. I do realize that I am not the perfect person to be pleading since I keep replying QCassidy352.

I voted for Kerry, I really do dislike Bush but focusing on the negative was just bringing me down too much today. I was hoping we could keep one positive thread going to try to alleviate some fears and give those of us unhappy with the results something to hope for. Even if what we are hoping for is unlikely we can still have hope.

[mypantsaretight]

Additional positive:

South America trends toward the people.

Bush has unintentionally fed a wave of left-leaning patriotic fevor in South America. This is due in part to his support of the heavy handed austerity measures of the IMF and World Bank, his support of NAFTA, his support for the now-renamed School of the Americas and the terrorists trained at Fort Benning, and also in part to the historic support of the United States for the genocidal despots of the Reagan era.

Left-leaning politicians in Venezula, Brazil, Argentina, Chile and most recently Uruguay have swept in to power on a wave of public support. Each election further debunks the idea that all democracies must be unregulated bastions of capitalism.

With every shift of the U.S. to the right, South America shifts toward the people. This is one positive outcome of the election.

[thatwendigo]

Don't you see what your elitist, partisan comments are doing to this country? It's fine to disagree, in fact, disagreement is encouraged. But, mud-slinging and deragotory comments about anyone with a different opinion than you is counter productive. I assure you, the best way to move America forward does NOT involve a civil war.

Does it involve repeated accusation by the Republican party that anyone who didn't back Bush's illegal and unjustified wars wasn't, and still isn't, a real patriot? Does it involve the fact that they've created and nurtured a culture where 'liberal' is basically a curse word? Does it involve the sheer, ballsy, outright lies that they've told since day one?

If not, then it should.

What's best now is to work towards comprimise and the best interest of the aggregate.

I'm sure that the Republicans in Congress will be happy to compromise, rather than taking us all over the table as they have been for the last four years. Obviously, this repeat term with even more legislative support heralds nothing but puppies and flowers all around, while one of the first actions taken on the eve of its arrival is the disenfranchisement of a large portion of the population.

After all, civil liberties aren't for homos. Them's for real people.

This is our country too. I would hope that people realize that this rabid hate for your fellow countrymen is doomed to hurt whichever party makes it their core mantra, as evidenced last night.

It hasn't hurt the Republicans yet, so here's my prediction:

The Democrats will eventually have a Karl Rove. Some day, they'll learn to fight like their opponents, and we might one day return to some semblance of balance in the government. That's the only good that might come from this.

[Thomas Veil]

I want privatised Social Security, I want to be able to decide how I want to invest it. If i make poor choices, well then its my own fault.
And when you're old and if you did make the wrong choices and you're out of money, guess who you're going to turn to?

[mypantsaretight]

And when you're old and if you did make the wrong choices and you're out of money, guess who you're going to turn to?

He can turn to me. I'll lend him a hand if he needs it. Of course I'll make him wear a big goofy hat and descriptive placard, but I'll still feed and clothe him.

[augiedb]

Government shrunk in the Clinton administration because a newly-elected Republican Congress (1994) actually had the guts to shrink something. They forced Clinton to go so far as to sign a "workfare" law, which he said he'd fix after the election but never did.

It would be nice to see this stronger Congress work towards a smaller government. This country has gone out of control in the amount it relies on the federal government to do every little thing for it. The problem is that the majority isn't filibuster-proof, political pressures (from the media, quite often) will prevent much of it from being passed easily, and the House isn't nearly fiscally conservative enough. (Or, their social moderacy will prevent their fiscal conservatism. Thus is the trap of "compassionate conservatism.)

The other problem is that this president isn't much of a conservative, either, in many issues. He signed that prescription drug plan that'll cost billions upon billions, for one quick example, and probably the biggest.

I agree that it would be nice to see the IRS eliminated (tho I prefer a flat tax) and government shrunk and entitlements slowed down and more civil services privatized and a return to a country that understood the concept of working for itself, and not relying on everyone else to take care of them and believing that the government provides things for free when all it does is redistribute the wealth---

But it won't happen. I'm not holding my breath. The reason I vote Republican is because it's a slower descent down that socialist agenda than voting for a Democrat.

-Augie

[dotnina]

finally the bush administration won't be able to blame everything that's going wrong on the previous administration because they are the previous administration.

... but who wants to bet they'll try anyway? :p

http://www.theonion.com/election2004/news_4004.php

[mactastic]

Government shrunk in the Clinton administration because a newly-elected Republican Congress (1994) actually had the guts to shrink something.


So why have these brave Republicans lost their way once they have complete control over all 3 branches of gov't? Bush surely wouldn't have vetoed anything they sent him, right?

[Ugg]

The single most important benefit of this election is that the rest of the world will get its act together and begin to provide a united front against the oppressive policies of the US.

1. The importance of Kyoto will be underlined again and again with the release of every environmental study over the next four years. There is no good news nor will there be as long as the US continues to pursue its "consume at any cost" policy. Some companies will refuse to do business in the US for fear of a consumer backlash at home.

2. The EU will become an increasingly attractive to live, study and invest. Count in Singapore, parts of India, New Zealand and Canada. The US will lose billions of dollars and the process has already begun. As a result the world will become less US centric and other regional cultures will flourish.

3. gw will be the only one to blame for the fiasco that is Iraq and the fact that the next terrrorist act will be his fault and his fault alone.

4. Israel will grow over-confident and commit some incredibly heinous crime whether against the Palestinians or Iran. This act will turn the US into Israel's sole supporter and gw will lose even more clout in the world for failing to use his influence to avoid such an act. The stranglehold of the US on international justice will be loosened further and even fewer people will look towards the US for guidance. This hopefully will give rise to more powerful statesmen throughout the world.

5. When he starts to dismantle the social and educational programs of the US, there will be a huge revolt and the republicans will be put in their place for another couple of decades. This isn't solely due to him but the idiotic two-party system in this country.

There are many many more reasons and one doesn't have to search very far to find them. I hope one positive effect will be that Americans are no longer so arrogant but that might take another decade or so.

[Spymit007]

I offer some long term benefits as a result of the 2004 Election

Bush's victory will only serve to strengthen and galvanize the Democratic Party which will lead to these events in the following years:

1. In 2006, the Democrats will more than likely recapture control in the House and Senate. The Republicans have been in power for too long, a decade. It's inevitable that they will lose seats in both chambers.

3. In 2008, the Democratic nominee for President will most likely win the election. I won't begin to assume who it would be but I would bet money that whoever it will be will win the White House.


Time's running out for the conservatives and the Republicans. No single party can remain in power for too long. It wasn't meant to be that way. The longer a party stays in control, the more complacent and corrupt it becomes.

[kuyu]

Here's a silver lining, and one reason I voted for Bush.

If the average American makes $30,000/year, then the government receives about $4,500/year in SS money from this person and their employer. As it stands now anyone under 25 is likely to receive about $1,100/month in real 2004 dollars (it will be about $3,000 then, but will only buy what $1100 buys today).

If someone works at 30K/year for 40 years (25-65), then they will have contributed $180,000 to SS. Under Bush's proposed plan (soon to be reality) young people, under 30 probably, will be able to defer 20% of their SS payout, and invest 2.5% of their pretax income into an Roth IRA like account. At the market average, that 2.5% will become ~$250,000! If you average 60K a year it's more like $500,000!

So if young people, like myself, opt into this system we will see a dramatic drop in the government's long-term liabilities. Also, the average young American will be able to receive about $880/month from SS and about $1,000 from their own account. Thus, Bush's plan just put ~$800 extra a month into the average young American's pocket. Plus a half funded Roth IRA, the average American making 30K/year will be able to pull in ~$3,000/month in retirement (in today's dollars) and give whomever .75 million when they die.

Sounds like a plus to this presidency to me. Oh yeah, by discounting at the same 9%, everyone who opts into this just effectively put about $5000 in their pocket. Thanks Bush, I gotta love 5 grand.

[solvs]

We're not all stupid.
Stupid isn't the correct term. I would say emotional, perhaps some misinformed. Many Bush supporters believe Saddam had WMDs and had some responsibilities for 9/11, neither of which is true. I can't stand Kerry, but I voted for him because there is not a single thing Bush has done well in my eyes. Education, enviroment, healthcare, you name it. If we stayed in Afganistan and at least feigned catching Bin Laden it would not have been this close an election. Instead we went to Iraq, guarded the oil instead of the weapons, forgot about Bin Laden, and are now creating more terrorists than we are killing, pissing away most of the good will we should have reveled in. Even forgetting the report Bush ignored while on vacation that threatened an attack, we were all behind him... yet, he blew it. Now if you speak out against his mistakes you are a traitor.

I guess free speech is only when you are criticizing Dems. At least they just call you stupid or a racist instead of questioning you patriotism.

What's best now is to work towards comprimise and the best interest of the aggregate. This is our country too. I would hope that people realize that this rabid hate for your fellow countrymen is doomed to hurt whichever party makes it their core mantra, as evidenced last night.
I would like that, but I don't see it. We'll cry free speech and you'll call us unAmerican, and nobody wins. Bush's you're with me, or you're against me attitude is kinda what pisses us and the rest of the world off.

On a positive note, maybe Bush will realize that he did not win by much. Almost half of the country did not want to re-elect him. Maybe he will re-think leaning too far to the right, just like I know the Dems will re-think leaning too far to the left and move more towards the center where they should be. In a couple of years, unless Bush completely changes how he is doing things so far, he will lose popularity and the Dems will have an easy win. Provided they actually fight this time instead of resting on their laurels. If things do not soon improve, the Dems could pull a victory out in 2 years, and even more likely in 4. If Bush does improve things, I will be pleasantly surprised, but still gratefull. I don't care who fixes things, just as long as someone does.

So hopefully now that all is said and done, and he is finished campaigning, Bush can admit to some mistakes and begin trying to fix them, bringing us together again for the good of all. I just hope it doesn't take another attack to make bring us back together.

[solvs]

Here's a silver lining, and one reason I voted for Bush.
There are more important things in this world than the almighty dollar.

[kuyu]

There are more important things in this world than the almighty dollar.

Very true. But, this plan is a real solution to a major problem we are going to face. Kerry kept telling old people that Bush was giving away their SS. That's not true. I'm amazed that more young people didn't rally behind this one.

As an aside, this move will also curb inflation in the short run, allowing long run fed discount rates to remain low, thereby spurring further economic growth. Interest rates stay low, because the fed can predict demand for cash, and play one quarter behind. It's a win, win, win, win situation. The FED nowadays tries to keep inflation in check. This would make their job far easier, and allow a loose-money economy to spool up. Because of the raw aggregate data available in this plan, the FED can start to line some things up for the years to come (30-50 years from now).