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uraniumwilly
Jul 12, 2010, 12:21 PM
I want a simple interface to build my own apps like hypercard had. Android, it seems, now has one in App Inventor.

http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/about/

We are an Apple family. We have an iPad, 3 macbooks, apple desktop, ipods, etc. But for the phone we hate AT&T and bought our first Android, and in the future might get rid of our iPad if we can't customize it the way we want to - if the Android/iPad equivalent does it nicely.

Are there any jailbreak apps that do what appinventor does?



ct2k7
Jul 12, 2010, 12:23 PM
No.

xCode

iphoneguy123
Jul 12, 2010, 12:23 PM
nope.

google : 4359345
apple : 0

0dev
Jul 12, 2010, 12:24 PM
App Inventor looks really cool.

Apple, however, aren't one for open development environments. I'm afraid it's Xcode or nothing.

BklynKid
Jul 12, 2010, 12:43 PM
I want a simple interface to build my own apps like hypercard had. Android, it seems, now has one in App Inventor.

http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/about/

We are an Apple family. We have an iPad, 3 macbooks, apple desktop, ipods, etc. But for the phone we hate AT&T and bought our first Android, and in the future might get rid of our iPad if we can't customize it the way we want to - if the Android/iPad equivalent does it nicely.

Are there any jailbreak apps that do what appinventor does?

You write your own apps for Android to customize them in a way you can't with an iPad?

If not then you shouldn't be concerned about this.

uraniumwilly
Jul 12, 2010, 01:59 PM
You write your own apps for Android to customize them in a way you can't with an iPad?

If not then you shouldn't be concerned about this.
The Hypercard-like ease of App Inventor vs the complexity with iOS is the idea here. It's programming for people who generally don't program.

BklynKid
Jul 12, 2010, 02:15 PM
The Hypercard-like ease of App Inventor vs the complexity with iOS is the idea here. It's programming for people who generally don't program.

But why are YOU worried about how easy or difficult it is? :confused:
Get the device that has the apps that YOU want.

uraniumwilly
Jul 12, 2010, 02:33 PM
But why are YOU worried about how easy or difficult it is? :confused:
Get the device that has the apps that YOU want.
Waddya born under a rock? I'm worried about it because Hypercard was an Apple product and I want it AGAIN on my Apple products.

ALSO, I'm worried about it and posting on this forum because a certain community of people SHOULD be a bit concerned about the evolution of the content of the product they so dearly love.

And gee, thanks for the advice about what to do about purchasing a device. I want an iPhone, but I want to also custom design my own apps.

Get it?

thep33t
Jul 12, 2010, 02:41 PM
god bless, hypercard. Been a while. Good little program.

BklynKid
Jul 12, 2010, 02:58 PM
Waddya born under a rock? I'm worried about it because Hypercard was an Apple product and I want it AGAIN on my Apple products.

ALSO, I'm worried about it and posting on this forum because a certain community of people SHOULD be a bit concerned about the evolution of the content of the product they so dearly love.

And gee, thanks for the advice about what to do about purchasing a device. I want an iPhone, but I want to also custom design my own apps.

Get it?

So you do write your own apps? That's what I was trying to find out before. Alas I think you're be mistaken if you think this app designer will result in anything more than fart-apps and whack-a-mole, times 10,000. I really don't think this will be any kind of great differentiator for Android in terms of platform quality.

uraniumwilly
Jul 12, 2010, 03:50 PM
So you do write your own apps? That's what I was trying to find out before. Alas I think you're be mistaken if you think this app designer will result in anything more than fart-apps and whack-a-mole, times 10,000. I really don't think this will be any kind of great differentiator for Android in terms of platform quality.

Yes, inasmuch as I am someone can call me a plumber when I fix a leak under the sink. Again, "...programming for people who generally don't program."

I've never made any claim that it's any kind of great differentiator. Some people of a certain type like to customize things.

Just like some people of a certain type actually advertise their wares in Mac discussion forums.

kdarling
Jul 12, 2010, 04:25 PM
I still remember when many/most people who bought personal computers actually learned to create apps on them, instead of being only app consumers.

Looking at the available blocks, you could quickly create some interesting stuff with it. For instance, in a few minutes you could create a flash card app that rewards your child for correctly speaking phrases into the voice-to-text block.

Perhaps even use it to prototype a product you want funded.

It's really too bad that Apple forbids Hypercard-like apps.

uraniumwilly
Jul 12, 2010, 04:34 PM
I still remember when many/most people who bought personal computers actually learned to create apps on them, instead of being only app consumers.

Looking at the available blocks, you could quickly create some interesting stuff with it. For instance, in a few minutes you could create a flash card app that rewards your child for correctly speaking phrases into the voice-to-text block.

Perhaps even use it to prototype a product you want funded.

It's really too bad that Apple forbids Hypercard-like apps.

Yeah, I think it's certainly worth playing with if you have the time. I'm a little hesitant because I want my results to work on my iPad.

I don't believe Apple forbids Hypercard-like apps. I think it requires the right language, like HTML 5

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dhd7mt3t_3ckqtwb3g

djrod
Jul 12, 2010, 05:05 PM
As a web developer I have to say:

WYSYWYG/graphical editors ALWAYS produces CRAP apps.

Real developers handwrites the code, this move from Google is going to provide a lot of apps to their market, but very low quality ones, you'll see

BklynKid
Jul 12, 2010, 05:26 PM
WYSYWYG/graphical editors ALWAYS produces CRAP apps.

Ditto.

I guess to answer your original question, no Apple doesn't have anything like this planned and I doubt they ever will. It may be easy to create some simple app but it doesn't produce quality and that's what Apple seems to be after. With the current set of tools Apple has no problem attracting developers to their platform and although it is prohibitive to the kind of people that would use this tool from Google, I don't think they care too much. Apple is no longer interested in exponentially expanding the number of apps, instead they are now after quality. Google wouldn't mind a higher quantity that they can tout in advertisements in their fight against the iPhone/WP7/BB.

kdarling
Jul 12, 2010, 05:50 PM
Apple certainly went through a quantity-over-quality phase, so they're in a glass house and cannot throw rocks.

However, I don't think it's about increasing the quantity of Android store apps. It seems more about letting people create their own personal apps, and the sharing of such code.

I can't count the number of friends who've asked what it takes to make an iPhone app and become disappointed that there's no easier way.

My son-in-law, who isn't a programmer at all, tried creating a Palm Pre app to get surfing forecasts, using their Ares tool... but got stuck (it's not as easy a tool to use). So I helped him create and customize a WebOS app with a picture of him and his one-year-old son as the startup image. He and his wife love showing off that app.

How many other people wouldn't love to download an Inventor app template and fill it in with their own family photos and information, for instance... just for their own use.

dejo
Jul 12, 2010, 05:57 PM
How many other people wouldn't love to download an Inventor app template and fill it in with their own family photos and information, for instance... just for their own use.
Why not this?:
How many other people wouldn't love to download an HTML app template and fill it in with their own family photos and information, for instance... just for their own use.

ReallyBigFeet
Jul 12, 2010, 06:03 PM
The Hypercard-like ease of App Inventor vs the complexity with iOS is the idea here. It's programming for people who generally don't program.

People who don't program and won't take the time to understand the basics of good software design quite frankly SHOULDNT program.

What Android has done is opened the gates for even more crappy shovelware developed by people who don't have a clue for gullible rubes on the Android Marketplace who don't know any better than to pay for shovelware designed by novices. Its like the second coming of the fart application all over again, but this time automated.

Its a vicious circle. It will eat itself in time.

uraniumwilly
Jul 12, 2010, 06:07 PM
As a web developer I have to say:

WYSYWYG/graphical editors ALWAYS produces CRAP apps.

Real developers handwrites the code, this move from Google is going to provide a lot of apps to their market, but very low quality ones, you'll see

Like Hypercard, this stuff is generally, though not always, for personal use. My interest is toward personal use. Hypercard had a look and feel that wasn't exactly flashy but it worked fine.

I've never expected anything like a new Hypercard from Apple. There might be other interested parties out there who would be interested in producing such a thing.

kdarling
Jul 12, 2010, 06:52 PM
People who don't program and won't take the time to understand the basics of good software design quite frankly SHOULDNT program.

If you meant programming something major for sale, I agree.

(Although hundreds if not thousands of apps in the Apple Store certainly don't meet your criteria. Heck, lots were just clones with minor changes.)

If you meant programming for yourself or friends, who cares?

How many other people wouldn't love to download an HTML app template and fill it in with their own family photos and information, for instance... just for their own use.

I'm all for that as well. Know of any?

mkrishnan
Jul 12, 2010, 07:03 PM
I'm all for that as well. Know of any?

Bento for iPhone isn't that far from that... if Bento gets compared to a program, it's rather Hypercard more often than not....

firewood
Jul 12, 2010, 07:13 PM
Much of the apps that App Inventor can build can also be done by making an HTML5 web app. Then you can make a web clip of a web app on your device and the result will act just like an app, pretty icon and everything.

Building powerful web apps (for clipping) is a greatly under-publicized way of deploying iPhone apps.

My hope is that Apple or somebody will add some iPhone custom templates and some "drop" icon style interaction building tools on top of Dashcode.

ldkaplan
Jul 12, 2010, 07:19 PM
People who don't program and won't take the time to understand the basics of good software design quite frankly SHOULDNT program.

What Android has done is opened the gates for even more crappy shovelware developed by people who don't have a clue for gullible rubes on the Android Marketplace who don't know any better than to pay for shovelware designed by novices. Its like the second coming of the fart application all over again, but this time automated.

Its a vicious circle. It will eat itself in time.

I couldn't disagree more.

What the Google tool does is a simple version of what most IDEs will do. Nobody codes a UI by hand anymore. And most IDE's (Visual Studio for example) generate 80% of the code you need. AND it will write it faster and better than most trained programmers can do.

This will be great for someone who has an idea and wants to play around with it a bit. Lots of folks have hobbies where apps just don't meet their needs and there should be a simple tool to draw a UI and a simple data store.

I hope Apple adds similar functionality to xCode.

admanimal
Jul 12, 2010, 08:41 PM
I couldn't disagree more.

What the Google tool does is a simple version of what most IDEs will do. Nobody codes a UI by hand anymore. And most IDE's (Visual Studio for example) generate 80% of the code you need. AND it will write it faster and better than most trained programmers can do.

Visual Studio and the like generate only the most trivial parts of the code. All of the real logic and design of the program (i.e. most of the real code) is still up to the programmer. Xcode 4 does add some additional support for generating some of the tedious property/outlet/action code.

I would be frightened if it became any easier for people to create crappy cookie-cutter apps. There are already more than enough.

ldkaplan
Jul 13, 2010, 12:37 PM
Visual Studio and the like generate only the most trivial parts of the code. All of the real logic and design of the program (i.e. most of the real code) is still up to the programmer. Xcode 4 does add some additional support for generating some of the tedious property/outlet/action code.

I would be frightened if it became any easier for people to create crappy cookie-cutter apps. There are already more than enough.

You can go along way with Studio before needing to write anything. I support a few applications that were initially devleoped by novices using Studio.

There are reasons to build applications beyond selling them. Remember that in order to get up on the app store, you have to pay a fee. That will prevent a lot of people from uploading fart apps. This will open the door for those that just want a simple utility on their phone that can easily be created with a wysiwyg app.

firewood
Jul 13, 2010, 06:05 PM
From Googles point of view, App Inventor is more for educational purposes than for commercial Android apps. For most people, crawling is a necessary stage before walking and running. A lot of competent professional Mac programmers started out with stuff similar to "20 GOTO 10" or HyperCard stacks. There currently is a extreme lack of such toddler sized steps customized to the Mac and iPhone paradigms.

However the Objective C runtime interpreter is just itching for somebody to build a nice small set of Obj C classes/objects/messages that

(1) is Turing complete (minus the infinite memory),

(2) can be assembled to create a variety of interesting apps (to a kid),

(3) hooks to some sort of Webkit/HTML5 UI on the front end, and

(4) can each be represented by a nice graphical symbol that will interlock with the objects with which it must message.

Just dynamically instantiate objects and do runtime message passing down the graphical program flow using NSClassFromString, NSSelectorFromString, respondsToSelector, and the like.

forcesteeler
Jul 13, 2010, 08:08 PM
Google is trying to add as many apps as they can to compete with the 250,000 apps on the IPhone.

Whats so funny is that Android Developers hardly make any money compared to a Iphone developer. I think the 24 hour return policy is killing developer pockets.

bogorman
Jul 24, 2010, 12:46 PM
Anyone know if there is anything out there for this?

forcesteeler
Jul 25, 2010, 08:58 AM
Google is trying to add as many apps as they can to compete with the 250,000 apps on the IPhone.

Whats so funny is that Android Developers hardly make any money compared to a Iphone developer. I think the 24 hour return policy is killing developer pockets.

Yea the Return Policy is a stupid idea. Its good for physical goods, but for digital goods its a no no.

flasher79
Jul 30, 2010, 01:57 PM
Anyone know if there is anything out there for this?

I found this app called DataFon a few days ago. I registered for the Beta and played with the App. It might be do enough to cover what you want. www.getdatafon.com. Other than that its XCode all the way...

Kitfer
Jan 4, 2011, 06:17 PM
Have a wysiwyg interface to make simple apps for personal use, if it works well then you have the option of sending it to apple and if they like it they can have an app developer write up a proper version of the app for the app store, people get the specific app they want, apple gets a source of app ideas and if they charge a small price ($1.29 perhaps) for the app design program then they get people paying them to give them ideas.
A small fee to upload an idea would weed out all the shovel ware ideas

Photics
Jan 7, 2011, 01:46 PM
Are there any jailbreak apps that do what appinventor does?

Why do you need to jailbreak to make apps? :mad:

No.


WHAT?! :eek:

nope.


HUH?! :confused:


I'm afraid it's Xcode or nothing.

NOPE! There are many other ways to make iOS apps without Xcode.

I think GameSalad is actually BETTER than App Inventor. The basic version of GameSalad is free. (You only need to be a registered apple developer.)

http://gamesalad.com

Basically, the "Professional" version lets you add Hyperlinks and iAds. If you don't need that, then the $499 annual subscription fee is not a problem right now. HA HA. I've made apps with Xcode. It's much easier with GameSalad. It's better suited for making games, but it can be used for lots of other apps too. I've made utilities with it. I think it could also be useful for interactive storybooks and similar projects.

I wrote The Unofficial GameSalad Textbook, which makes it even easier to make apps for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad. The programming language for GameSalad is basically English.

I think there are also other alternatives, like Flash (CS5), Corona and Unity. I haven't created a game with those SDKs though. Heh, obviously I like GameSalad better. I have been watching Corona though. It's a lot harder to use than GameSalad, and there are some differences in the features, but Corona has great performance... it even has Android support.

VulchR
Jan 7, 2011, 02:52 PM
As a web developer I have to say:

WYSYWYG/graphical editors ALWAYS produces CRAP apps.

Real developers handwrites the code, this move from Google is going to provide a lot of apps to their market, but very low quality ones, you'll see

Nonsense. Besides, real men/women use assembler....

EDIT: RealStudio does well for Mac/PC/LINUX but not iPhone...

Kallex
Jun 9, 2011, 02:57 AM
I was looking for App Inventor alternative for iPhone/iOS and bumped to this thread.

Is the current status nonexistent, including any community/open-source projects trying to reach for this?

The potential behind App Inventor is much greater than just scrap-up-simple apps, although getting the beginner-programmers to write well-designed applications is a challenge itself.

However it does its job for reaching the masses, and it progresses to provide more technical reach than just for simple apps. It can be thought of as an semi-logic providing "UI" maker, where it seamlessly connects to "real-software" blocks.

Google has relatively interested and active community around App Inventor, including also educational aspects.

I would be interested to hear, if iOS/iPhone has something alike to offer, including any effort to put together it via open-source/community project(s).


Kalle

Kalle

stscanlan
Jan 10, 2013, 07:11 PM
I understand your plight. I am a computer teacher, and always want to get the kids interested in how the technology they love, works. I announced to my 10th graders today that on Monday we would start creating phone apps. There were cheers from the Android crowd and crestfallen faces from the owners of the IPhones when I announced that App Inventor only worked on the Android platform, thereby freezing out quite a number of would-be future programmers. That's food for thought, Apple people.:apple:

ArtOfWarfare
Jan 10, 2013, 07:52 PM
Why not just teach real programming? Teach C... or if that's too complicated for them, maybe Java. (Java, despite all the flaws I hate it for, may just be an easier first language.)

MattInOz
Jan 10, 2013, 10:07 PM
From Googles point of view, App Inventor is more for educational purposes than for commercial Android apps. For most people, crawling is a necessary stage before walking and running. A lot of competent professional Mac programmers started out with stuff similar to "20 GOTO 10" or HyperCard stacks. There currently is a extreme lack of such toddler sized steps customized to the Mac and iPhone paradigms.

However the Objective C runtime interpreter is just itching for somebody to build a nice small set of Obj C classes/objects/messages that

(1) is Turing complete (minus the infinite memory),

(2) can be assembled to create a variety of interesting apps (to a kid),

(3) hooks to some sort of Webkit/HTML5 UI on the front end, and

(4) can each be represented by a nice graphical symbol that will interlock with the objects with which it must message.

Just dynamically instantiate objects and do runtime message passing down the graphical program flow using NSClassFromString, NSSelectorFromString, respondsToSelector, and the like.

I was always thinking Sproutcore or Cappuccino would get a Dashcode like interface builder and make a great MobileAppLite platform. Just never seems to have happened or gotten much coverage.

firewood
Jan 11, 2013, 02:20 AM
Why not just teach real programming?

Real programming wasn't designed to be taught. They were mostly designed by alpha geeks to impress other hi-IQ alpha geeks with some very esoteric or abstract qualities. For most real people, it's way too difficult to get any interesting or fun results from these languages before it becomes way too boring.

Count how many art or philosophy majors are voluntarily in a typical intro to real programming class (as opposed to an Arduino lab), and the number will be close to zero, probably smaller even than the number of CS majors taking ballet classes.

Someone needs to figure out how to do an iPhone app IDE using something more like Logo, or Smalltalk/Squeak, et.al. Kids actually liked playing with those languages. A smaller number of typical adults played with stuff like spreadsheet macros or Hypertalk.

thewitt
Jan 11, 2013, 04:31 AM
I still remember when many/most people who bought personal computers actually learned to create apps on them, instead of being only app consumers.

Looking at the available blocks, you could quickly create some interesting stuff with it. For instance, in a few minutes you could create a flash card app that rewards your child for correctly speaking phrases into the voice-to-text block.

Perhaps even use it to prototype a product you want funded.

It's really too bad that Apple forbids Hypercard-like apps.

Many/most people stopped trying to write their own computer applications around 1979 when VisiCalc was created.

HyperCard was a hack.

iOS will never include an app builder.

firewood
Jan 11, 2013, 02:12 PM
HyperCard was a hack.


But an exceedingly popular hack (among non-techies) for such a poorly designed (IMHO) built-in programming language.


iOS will never include an app builder.


iOS is an operating system, not an IDE. There are several app builder IDEs already available for iOS app development (some with lots of apps in the store built using them), just none designed well for educational use (or educational PR fluff... :)

Certainly none designed well enough for "real programming", if that's what you meant.

xArtx
Jan 11, 2013, 08:47 PM
I always thought a BASIC or LUA interpreter would be nice for iDevices,
then the time you spent making simple apps still wasn't wasted
because the writer still picks up basic programming concepts that could
be used later on if you really got stuck into it.

Not much chance of that though... didn't even see any in jailbreak land..

Albright
Jan 11, 2013, 10:18 PM
I always thought a BASIC or LUA interpreter would be nice for iDevices…
Not much chance of that though... didn't even see any in jailbreak land..

Methinks you didn't look hard enough. Codea (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/codea/id439571171?mt=8) and iLuaBox (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iluabox/id398073834?mt=8) are two promising-looking apps that allow you to build programs with Lua (though I haven't tried either), and there appear to be a handful of others if you just search the App Store for "Lua."

xArtx
Jan 12, 2013, 09:56 PM
Methinks you didn't look hard enough. Codea (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/codea/id439571171?mt=8) and iLuaBox (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iluabox/id398073834?mt=8) are two promising-looking apps that allow you to build programs with Lua (though I haven't tried either), and there appear to be a handful of others if you just search the App Store for "Lua."

I didn't even check the App store, they are supposed to forbid that sort of thing.
Even the C64 emu had a hard time, and had to be crippled.

ArtOfWarfare
Jan 12, 2013, 10:00 PM
I didn't even check the App store, they are supposed to forbid that sort of thing.
Even the C64 emu had a hard time, and had to be crippled.

That's not so. Apple forbids compiled code in the app to change. There's nothing wrong with having scripts in an app (thus how there are apps for writing and testing C code on the App Store... They interpret and emulate the code rather than compile it.)

xArtx
Jan 13, 2013, 10:56 PM
That's not so. Apple forbids compiled code in the app to change. There's nothing wrong with having scripts in an app (thus how there are apps for writing and testing C code on the App Store... They interpret and emulate the code rather than compile it.)

I'll bet there is still a catch with the above mentioned LUA interpreters.
Although I haven't downloaded any of them, I'd be (pleasantly) suprised if
any of them can be configured to run your specified script at startup.

Jessica Lares
Jan 13, 2013, 11:21 PM
I like that Codea app, going to try building something with it. Thanks for the link.

I personally use Unity with Boldai's Brain Builder. It's pretty good for games. I have no coding experience whatsoever, but was able to put together the Pong tutorial in under a hour by just reading the guide. I learnt a LOT. If you can make a flowchart and do a little math, it's so easy to use. I'm very impressed with it and am going to buy the full package to play around with some more.

I think just playing around with Interface Builder and making everything connect the way you want it and inserting the strings/pages/etc you need would be as App Inventor as it gets.