Waiting until tomorrow (July 13th) or pulling the trigger!!

[WardC]

So I've made up my mind....if Apple doesn't refresh the Mac Pro line by tomorrow (July 13th) then I am definitely just going to buy one of the current generation ones. I have waited long enough and I just can't wait for anytime longer for Apple to release a new Mac Pro. If it doesn't happen tomorrow, it may be until September before the new ones come out. So, this is my decision, and I finally look forward to getting a new Mac Pro (I just returned a 27" iMac today due to high frequency noise coming from the display of the unit)

[fearoftigers]

So I've made up my mind....if Apple doesn't refresh the Mac Pro line by tomorrow (July 13th) then I am definitely just going to buy one of the current generation ones. I have waited long enough and I just can't wait for anytime longer for Apple to release a new Mac Pro. If it doesn't happen tomorrow, it may be until September before the new ones come out. So, this is my decision, and I finally look forward to getting a new Mac Pro (I just returned a 27" iMac today due to high frequency noise coming from the display of the unit)

I'm in a similar position. What spec Pro are you getting?

[ValSalva]

Hopefully something will be updated tomorrow - or the 20th. Of course there have been rumors of new ACDs coming out with a new Mac Pro. What display will you use or buy if there are no updates tomorrow and you buy a current Mac Pro?

[prettydamnsweet]

I just started freelance editing again, and my old G5 from the last time I freelanced just can't cut it. All the aps I use have to be on Intell machines. So last week I went to a local reseller and got a 4 core (2xduo core) for $1200. This should work for the next couple of days/weeks/months until something actually gets announced - then I'll spend the $6000 for the RIGHT machine!

[WardC]

I'm in a similar position. What spec Pro are you getting?

Probably a single 6-core 3.33GHz one (if they are available). I had planned on buying the quad core 3.33GHz but right now the price is pretty steep for what you get. I plan on upgrading the video card (4870 or GFX 285), adding 16GB of RAM, and adding two 1TB drives and an SSD to boot. Should give a killer machine!!

Hopefully something will be updated tomorrow - or the 20th. Of course there have been rumors of new ACDs coming out with a new Mac Pro. What display will you use or buy if there are no updates tomorrow and you buy a current Mac Pro?

I have a 23" ACD already that I am using with my MacBook Pro as my main machine. It's a great display, I absolutely love it! The size is just right, and the 1920x1200 resolution is just perfect for just about anything.

[redscull]

So I've made up my mind....if Apple doesn't refresh the Mac Pro line by tomorrow (July 13th) then I am definitely just going to buy one of the current generation ones.Why? For less money, you could get a 15" MacBook Pro, connect an external monitor and keyboard/mouse, and have a more powerful system. And it'd be portable! I'm not sure what exactly, if anything, the current Mac Pro tower can do better than the laptop can (until they refresh it, obviously).

[rajbonham]

Sorry to sound like this, but don't hold your breath. An update tomorrow is as likely as an update next week, or the week after, or the week after...

[WardC]

Why? For less money, you could get a 15" MacBook Pro, connect an external monitor and keyboard/mouse, and have a more powerful system. And it'd be portable! I'm not sure what exactly, if anything, the current Mac Pro tower can do better than the laptop can (until they refresh it, obviously).

That's what I am using right now...a 15" MacBook Pro hooked to an external monitor. I just want a dedicated desktop system, a very powerful one, and I am willing to pay the extra money for it. I want a Mac Pro, and I am going to get one!! My 2.4GHz MacBook Pro with 4GB of RAM is pretty fast, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't scream. It sometimes chokes up when playing 1080p video even. The tiny 160GB internal 5400rpm hard drive cripples the system, and it's video card is only a 256MB nVidia 8600M. A Mac Pro would be anywhere from 3-5 times as fast (and can handle 1080p video without breaking a sweat)! So what if I want a powerful system? Why do you have to be so critical?

Sorry to sound like this, but don't hold your breath. An update tomorrow is as likely as an update next week, or the week after, or the week after...

There has been much, much speculation about a July 13th refresh to the lineup. Apple has updated the MacBook Pro, the Mac Mini, and introduced the iPhone all on the second Tuesday of the last 3 months. That's why we think there is just a chance for the Mac Pro tomorrow. It's the most likely machine to get the next update, since it hasn't been updated in well over a full year!!

[oilfighter]

Why? For less money, you could get a 15" MacBook Pro, connect an external monitor and keyboard/mouse, and have a more powerful system. And it'd be portable! I'm not sure what exactly, if anything, the current Mac Pro tower can do better than the laptop can (until they refresh it, obviously).

On paper, the MBP might seen faster, but in practice, I found my 2 year old PC (with a slower processor) faster than my MBP when it comes to photoshop. I think it's the HDD that's slowing down the MBP.

But I still prefer to use Apple OS to do things, even if it's slower. I hope Mac Pro comes out tomorrow, if not, it'll be a long wait till Sept.

[Cindori]

http://groths.org/images/paul.jpg


Paul has spoken.

[abccba]

[IMG]
Paul has spoken.

LOL! :D

This is awesome! :D

[slughead]

Paul has spoken.

Win.

[Icaras]

Sorry to sound like this, but don't hold your breath. An update tomorrow is as likely as an update next week, or the week after, or the week after...

This time however, I strongly believe that tomorrow will see an update, and not next week on the 20th.

I'm going off the recent pattern of monthly mac updates, and also the recent observation in the OP's post here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=963885

This is concerning the fact that every monthly update since April has definitely been, in fact, the exact Tuesday closest to the middle of the month, in this case, the 13th, which is closest to the 15th or 16th; the middle of July.

Hey I know this seems like we're grasping at straws at this point, but it follows Apple's recent patterns, so I'll remain hopeful for tomorrow.

What machine will update tomorrow is the real question I think. Air or Mac Pro. It's a flip of the coin now.

[rmwebs]

Why? For less money, you could get a 15" MacBook Pro, connect an external monitor and keyboard/mouse, and have a more powerful system. And it'd be portable! I'm not sure what exactly, if anything, the current Mac Pro tower can do better than the laptop can (until they refresh it, obviously).

Would you like a list?

- Multiple monitors
- Upgradability (not just RAM and HDD like the MBP)
- More RAM
- Better storage options (without having a crap load of USB DC powered drives!)
- Longer life (obviously carting around a laptop has a higher chance of damaging hard drives and fans)

My personal reasons for wanting a Pro are that I use 2x 24" screens for design and programming, I want to be able to get semi-decent graphics out of it (not fussed about all these fancy graphics cards but I would like something a bit better than a mobile nVidia chip offers.

A few 'perks' that I'm after is the ability to use 4 internal hard drives, and not have to worry about dasychained power cords to plug in a bunch of powered USB drives. The ability to put a 3rd party blueray drive in there (not a major thing but would be pretty cool to do). The ability to add ram as/when I want that is over 8GB (or 4GB in the case of my original unibody MBP).

As you can see, there's a huge number of reasons the pro should still be around. Dont get me wrong, I love my MacBook Pro. But a laptop will never substitute a good desktop - not unless someone comes up with a way to stick multiple (changeable) graphics cards, hard drives, cpu's, etc.

Back on topic!
----------
I'll be biting the bullet tomorrow too. I've fired off a few stinking emails to Steve Jobs basically expressing my utter disgust in Apple's lack of support for the Pro. I did remind him that its highly likely that most 'Pro' users are the people who make apps for his iToys. Obviously I didn't get a response. :rolleyes:

If only Hackintosh was more stable...

[mutalib]

I hope they don't update it tomorrow...

Because all these threads will die, and I only come here to be entertained by these threads of hope and despair.

[DSchwartz88]

Would you like a list?

- Multiple monitors
- Upgradability (not just RAM and HDD like the MBP)
- More RAM
- Better storage options (without having a crap load of USB DC powered drives!)
- Longer life (obviously carting around a laptop has a higher chance of damaging hard drives and fans)

My personal reasons for wanting a Pro are that I use 2x 24" screens for design and programming, I want to be able to get semi-decent graphics out of it (not fussed about all these fancy graphics cards but I would like something a bit better than a mobile nVidia chip offers.

A few 'perks' that I'm after is the ability to use 4 internal hard drives, and not have to worry about dasychained power cords to plug in a bunch of powered USB drives. The ability to put a 3rd party blueray drive in there (not a major thing but would be pretty cool to do). The ability to add ram as/when I want that is over 8GB (or 4GB in the case of my original unibody MBP).

As you can see, there's a huge number of reasons the pro should still be around. Dont get me wrong, I love my MacBook Pro. But a laptop will never substitute a good desktop - not unless someone comes up with a way to stick multiple (changeable) graphics cards, hard drives, cpu's, etc.

Back on topic!
----------
I'll be biting the bullet tomorrow too. I've fired off a few stinking emails to Steve Jobs basically expressing my utter disgust in Apple's lack of support for the Pro. I did remind him that its highly likely that most 'Pro' users are the people who make apps for his iToys. Obviously I didn't get a response. :rolleyes:

If only Hackintosh was more stable...

this is hilarious. I was in the exact same situation last week. I too am a developer and part of the reason why I wanted the Mac Pro is the 2x24" screen setup.

I have no idea what kind of dev you do, but i've been doing some pretty hard core ruby/php/sql/etc. + running all the web browsers in OSX and virtualizing them in parallels over windows 7 + running CS5 stuff ontop of it and the computer hasn't chocked once.

Just got this beauty last week off Craigslist for a severe discount and I couldn't be happier. Here are the specs in case your trying to decide:

2.66 Single Quad Core Xeon (I checked and you can upgrade to the W3580 or 3.33GHZ version very easily)
8GB RAM (4 x 2GB)
160GB Intel X25-M SSD
1TB media disk

[xgman]

For anyone who does bail and goes for a 2009, you would be strongly advised to go refurb or even used. The value for a new full price 2009 system is simply not there. At least save yourself some cash. Then again, buy as many 2009's as you can. maybe Apple is waiting to clear out some stock before making the move. ;)

By the way, there is only one thing worse than waking up to an open Apple store when refreshing your browser. That would be waking up to a closed Apple store and subsequently finding out it was closed for something other than a MAC PRO!!! Maddening I tell you . . .

[2005CTS]

This time however, I strongly believe that tomorrow will see an update, and not next week on the 20th.

I'm going off the recent pattern of monthly mac updates, and also the recent observation in the OP's post here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=963885

This is concerning the fact that every monthly update since April has definitely been, in fact, the exact Tuesday closest to the middle of the month, in this case, the 13th, which is closest to the 15th or 16th; the middle of July.

Hey I know this seems like we're grasping at straws at this point, but it follows Apple's recent patterns, so I'll remain hopeful for tomorrow.

What machine will update tomorrow is the real question I think. Air or Mac Pro. It's a flip of the coin now.

The OP mapped out his pattern from my observation a while back:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=934626&page=8
If you look at the Buyer's Guide on this site you can see that Apple has updated a Mac computer every four or five weeks for the past three months. First it was the MacBook Pro, then the MacBook, then just yesterday the Mac Mini. There are three other Mac's still needing an update...the MacBook Air, iMac and Mac Pro. It seems to me that for the pending fall school sales drive Apple would want the MacBook Air and iMac to get their refresh before the Mac Pro. Using that logic, I predict that we will see a Mac update on July 13th and on August 17th. This fits their pattern for the last three updates spacing the updates out about a month targeting the Tuesday that falls in the middle of the month.

I suspect that the MacBook Air will be updated next followed by the iMac in August. Speaking of which...we just joined the Mac family last week with the purchase of a MacBook Pro and are eying a refreshed iMac to replace our desktop. I plan on ordering the day the update is announced. I can't wait.


Many have started seeing low inventory notices on the iMac - so all signs seem to be pointing to an iMac update tomorrow.

[TheLOGICalone]

That op sounds really smart, hehe ;) I'm also banking on tomorrow, if not I'm gonna take a long hard look at the hakintosh solution. Btw, I didn't make the mid month Tuesday observation, I quoted a guy from the gtx 480 ati 5000 series drivers... Thread.


This time however, I strongly believe that tomorrow will see an update, and not next week on the 20th.

I'm going off the recent pattern of monthly mac updates, and also the recent observation in the OP's post here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=963885

This is concerning the fact that every monthly update since April has definitely been, in fact, the exact Tuesday closest to the middle of the month, in this case, the 13th, which is closest to the 15th or 16th; the middle of July.

Hey I know this seems like we're grasping at straws at this point, but it follows Apple's recent patterns, so I'll remain hopeful for tomorrow.

What machine will update tomorrow is the real question I think. Air or Mac Pro. It's a flip of the coin now.

[Icaras]

That op sounds really smart, hehe ;) I'm also banking on tomorrow, if not I'm gonna take a long hard look at the hakintosh solution. Btw, I didn't make the mid month Tuesday observation, I quoted a guy from the gtx 480 ati 5000 series drivers... Thread.

Haha, indeed. Hey, what you pointed out makes sense to me, so I'm sticking with your theory. :)

However, the iMac update history doesn't point to an iMac refresh for me. The so-far-consistent 8-11-8-11 month update cycle seems to keep holding true and I don't think we'll see the iMac tomorrow.

I can understand how popular Apple's notebook line is, as all of them, save for the Air, have already been updated twice in one Mac Pro cycle. However, two iMac updates in one Mac Pro cycle could most certainly send this forum into a violent rampage. :rolleyes:

[deconstruct60]

The OP mapped out his pattern from my observation a while back:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=934626&page=8


Unless there is a CPU update from Intel there isn't much to move these three to that is new. MBA is maxed out for that form/power factor of CPU (MBP 13" used 'hand me down' C2D to do updates. There is nothing "above" the MBA to get updates from). Likewise the 3600 Xeon ( nor upper end i7 ) line is not flushed out with newest microarch. The i7 micro arch update isn't due till Q4. The iMac updated last Fall if Apple does them on a 12 month schedule that's when they'd be due again.

That's is the pattern Apple was using but they have to have the newer components to ship them. Intel is doing significant updates on more of a 12 month schedule these days. Not sure why folks keep drumbeating for something that is faster than that.

[2005CTS]

Unless there is a CPU update from Intel there isn't much to move these three to that is new. MBA is maxed out for that form/power factor of CPU. Likewise the 3600 Xeon ( nor upper end i7 ) line is flushed out with newest microarch. The i7 micro arch update isn't due till Q4. The iMac updated last Fall if Apple does them on a 12 month schedule that's when they'd be due again.

That's is the pattern Apple was using but they have to have the newer components to ship them.


Wasn't there just recently a CPU update announced by intel with updated chips shipping starting in July of this year?

There are other wasy the iMac line could be updated though, a better GPU, offering the i5 chip in the 21.5 inch iMac, more memory, etc. Still pegging an update for tomorrow - a bump in specs of some kind.

[redscull]

So what if I want a powerful system? Why do you have to be so critical?Sorry, I wasn't trying to be critical. I just don't think the current tower is much, if any, upgrade over the current macbook pros. I guess my point was that your ultimatum didn't make sense. Either wait on the next tower refresh, or buy the latest macbook pro. The current tower doesn't seem like a very good deal to me.

To the other responses, yes, I guess they are some technical limitations to the laptop, like the number of screens you can connect. But when I look at what I normally consider to be the main "power" aspects of a computer (cpu, ram, video), the i7 MBPs are pretty freakin' powerful.

[rmwebs]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be critical. I just don't think the current tower is much, if any, upgrade over the current macbook pros. I guess my point was that your ultimatum didn't make sense. Either wait on the next tower refresh, or buy the latest macbook pro. The current tower doesn't seem like a very good deal to me.

To the other responses, yes, I guess they are some technical limitations to the laptop, like the number of screens you can connect. But when I look at what I normally consider to be the main "power" aspects of a computer (cpu, ram, video), the i7 MBPs are pretty freakin' powerful.

The screen is a dealbreaker for almost all people who need a powerful mac. Would you expect a movie editor to be slumped over his little laptop with the director sitting next to him? :p

[Icaras]

The screen is a dealbreaker for almost all people who need a powerful mac. Would you expect a movie editor to be slumped over his little laptop with the director sitting next to him? :p

Whenever I watch behind-the-scene features in newer Steven Speilberg films, I always see a Macbook Pro nearby on the set. They look like 17" sized ones though.

[deconstruct60]

Wasn't there just recently a CPU update announced by intel with updated chips shipping starting in July of this year?


No. There were reports that Intel would have uncorked that 32nm production limitation problems by end of June. That hints that they may flush out the Xeon 3600 line or other ones, but they haven't publically signed up to a commitment to do it.

It seems likely they will but intel has a tendency to announce those on Mondays. Nothing has been announced today. It could be tomorrow though.





There are other wasy the iMac line could be updated though, a better GPU, offering the i5 chip in the 21.5 inch iMac, more memory, etc. Still pegging an update for tomorrow - a bump in specs of some kind.

unlikely. Apple could drop some of the core i5 duo chips with IGP into the lower end iMacs but there is nothing to put into the higher end ones until Intel does an update. Apple is going to bump the iMac just to move the lower end? Doesn't seem likely.

Intel can barely keep up with their 32nm commitments. I doubt they want to chop the prices on the 45nm stuff which would make pushing the prices down on the not yet year old Lynnfield i5/i7 used in the iMac down. Neither is Apple in hurry to eat that increased cost in lower end iMacs if they don't move.

[TheLOGICalone]

+1 to violent rampage, i'm talkin to a friend about helpin me build a HIGH end hakintosh, if I can be convinced of similar stability Im gonna do it, 3.33 6 core oc'd to over 4 ghz, 2 or 3 gtx 480's or 5870's in sli/crossfire for bootcamp games, 250 gig ss HD, 2 2tb hds 10k rpm for audio recording using logic/protools, nice ass 40+ inch LCD HDTV, 1033 MHz ram (I think, you know the faster ram) 6 slots, and all dat sheet.

[JesterJJZ]

At this rate we'll probably see alien disclosure before a new Mac Pro comes out.

[2005CTS]

At this rate we'll probably see alien disclosure before a new Mac Pro comes out.

I suspect that there will be an update to the Mac Pro line this fall after the higher volume machines are prepped for the back to school crowd. I also expect Apple to release updated LED monitors at the same time. But first...they will update their higher volume models so that all the college freshmen can pick up a new computer when they head off to college here in the next six weeks.

[TheLOGICalone]

lmao, your the one I quoted, I just caught that lol.

The OP mapped out his pattern from my observation a while back:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=934626&page=8



Many have started seeing low inventory notices on the iMac - so all signs seem to be pointing to an iMac update tomorrow.

[TheLOGICalone]

2005cts, did you notice that pattern by yourself?

[Horus]

+1 to violent rampage, i'm talkin to a friend about helpin me build a HIGH end hakintosh, if I can be convinced of similar stability Im gonna do it, 3.33 6 core oc'd to over 4 ghz, 2 or 3 gtx 480's or 5870's in sli/crossfire for bootcamp games, 250 gig ss HD, 2 2tb hds 10k rpm for audio recording using logic/protools, nice ass 40+ inch LCD HDTV, 1033 MHz ram (I think, you know the faster ram) 6 slots, and all dat sheet.

2 or 3 GTX 480? I know you were joking but that's just too excessive, unless you're planing to play Metro 2033 or Crysis 2 with 3 3D Monitors.
Also, i think the "nice ass 40+ inch LCD HDTV" is pretty much useless, I would rather have 2 Cinema Displays or something like that.

[2005CTS]

2005cts, did you notice that pattern by yourself?

Yes and no. Several folks had stated that there would most likely be an iMac update in the July/August timeframe. So...I started looking for some type of predictive pattern. After the Mac Mini hit - it made three months in a row where Apple used the same release patter for an over due Mac product...so I started mapping out the calendar to see what were the most likely updates in the coming months for the remaining three Mac Products. Using that logic...it fits that an iMac update would fall within the July/August time frame as others had predicted and the Tuesday closest to the middle of the month just fit.

A colaborative effort to which I just tried to flesh it out a bit. That said...I am not going to hold my breath as Apple is likely to do anything. I have been waiting for an iMac for a while and now won't buy until the line gets a refresh.

[Roman23]

pull the trigger!! It will be all nice and neat.
:)


So I've made up my mind....if Apple doesn't refresh the Mac Pro line by tomorrow (July 13th) then I am definitely just going to buy one of the current generation ones. I have waited long enough and I just can't wait for anytime longer for Apple to release a new Mac Pro. If it doesn't happen tomorrow, it may be until September before the new ones come out. So, this is my decision, and I finally look forward to getting a new Mac Pro (I just returned a 27" iMac today due to high frequency noise coming from the display of the unit)

[Roman23]

You are just now seeing this for yourself?


this is hilarious. I was in the exact same situation last week. I too am a developer and part of the reason why I wanted the Mac Pro is the 2x24" screen setup.

I have no idea what kind of dev you do, but i've been doing some pretty hard core ruby/php/sql/etc. + running all the web browsers in OSX and virtualizing them in parallels over windows 7 + running CS5 stuff ontop of it and the computer hasn't chocked once.

Just got this beauty last week off Craigslist for a severe discount and I couldn't be happier. Here are the specs in case your trying to decide:

2.66 Single Quad Core Xeon (I checked and you can upgrade to the W3580 or 3.33GHZ version very easily)
8GB RAM (4 x 2GB)
160GB Intel X25-M SSD
1TB media disk

[DSchwartz88]

You are just now seeing this for yourself?

im not exactly sure what your comment means haha

[strausd]

I suspect that there will be an update to the Mac Pro line this fall after the higher volume machines are prepped for the back to school crowd. I also expect Apple to release updated LED monitors at the same time. But first...they will update their higher volume models so that all the college freshmen can pick up a new computer when they head off to college here in the next six weeks.

I plan on getting a Mac Pro for college. But I wouldn't buy a current one if they don't come out tomorrow. I can wait til September if they are rumored to come out then. Going a month with a 15" MBP should do fine.

Of course, once the new ones come out, I'm buying one. I am going into 3D animation and will need some good power for that. I got a 24" ACD this summer in preparation for my Mac Pro, right now its just another monitor for my MBP.

What sucks is we have no idea what will be updated tomorrow. The Mac Pro is the most due for an update, its like 500 days! The MacBook Air is at 400, and the iMac is only at 265. I think the iMac definitely won't be updated tomorrow. Another reason I think that is because it is their most popular desktop, so if it was going to be updated tomorrow, we would have more than speculation... The MBA and MP are their least popular macs, which makes sense as to why there have been no major rumors about them.

I'm not really sure if the whole Back To School thing has anything to do with MP or MBA stock, considering how unpopular they are. With the BTS thing going on, it seems like they could get rid of a lot of their iMac inventory, or at least a considerable amount, which is another reason I think the iMac won't be updated tomorrow. It seems like its between the MBA and MP... Hopefully MP :D

[Roman23]

You asked if any xeon w35xx will work and I said yes.. also core i7 9xx will work EXCEPT FOR 980x which is gulftown and requires microcode to be flashed in order to use it.. This is what the ill-fated 2010 mac pro will have, if ever released.


im not exactly sure what your comment means haha

[rajbonham]

Haha, it's pretty hilarious to see the various arguments people are pulling out of their a**, based on which computer they want.

Listen, all the computers have an equal chance of being updated tomorrow. As far as I'm concerned, it's an 8% chance of a Mac Pro update, 8% chance of iMac and 8% chance of MacBook Air. That leaves about a 75% chance that not a damn thing will happen tomorrow.

As for your "low stock" arguments, check Amazon. There's a low stock of Mac Pro's right now, in addition to the iMac. So, none of that really means anything. The most we have to work with are the video card drivers found in OS X.

Other than that, we have no leads favoring ANY of the computers over the others. Wait 12 hours and you will see what happens. Most likely absolutely nothing.

[ivoruest]

Apple should offer an extreme model of the mac pro. Since Steam has gone out that could be an incentive to buy it for gaming. Probably some SLI compatibility or whatever technology for better graphics and gaming. It should have at least a Blu-ray or hdmi out. I don´t know, they should think outside their "Beautiful Aluminum Box" that doesn´t let them be better.

Not sure when is it going to come out the next model, but should be any time soon.

[rajbonham]

Apple should offer an extreme model of the mac pro. Since Steam has gone out that could be an incentive to buy it for gaming. Probably some SLI compatibility or whatever technology for better graphics and gaming. It should have at least a Blu-ray or hdmi out. I don´t know, they should think outside their "Beautiful Aluminum Box" that doesn´t let them be better.

Not sure when is it going to come out the next model, but should be any time soon.

The Mac Pro is not designed for gaming. It is a workstation designed for creating content. A PC is what you are looking for.

[james90755]

The Mac Pro is the most due for an update, its like 500 days! The MacBook Air is at 400, and the iMac is only at 265. I think the iMac definitely won't be updated tomorrow.

Are you actually doing this math, or is there a timer somewhere?

[rajbonham]

Are you actually doing this math, or is there a timer somewhere?

Click the "Buyer's Guide" button at the top of the page.

[strausd]

Are you actually doing this math, or is there a timer somewhere?

Says in the buyers guide.

Edit: What he said ^ :D

[JesterJJZ]

The Mac Pro is not designed for gaming. It is a workstation designed for creating content. A PC is what you are looking for.

Amen...the MacPro is not a toy.

[TheLOGICalone]

2 or 3 GTX 480? I know you were joking but that's just too excessive, unless you're planing to play Metro 2033 or Crysis 2 with 3 3D Monitors.
Also, i think the "nice ass 40+ inch LCD HDTV" is pretty much useless, I would rather have 2 Cinema Displays or something like that.

Lol, wouldn't it be nice to have 2 480's in sli... And LCD hdtvs are cheap as hell right now, some have half decent refresh rates, cinema display is stupid until price drop/ update

[FoxyKaye]

Holding breath for tomorrow.

* Blacking out *

Waking up to find no change.

I'm too cynical from the deluge of iToys. At this point, I'll believe it when I see it.

[brandon.8602]

I plan on upgrading the video card (4870 or GFX 285), adding 16GB of RAM, and adding two 1TB drives and an SSD to boot.

Can i please ask, what in the world is (or will be) on your machine that requires 2 TB and an SSD?!?!

[ValSalva]

Holding breath for tomorrow.

* Blacking out *

Waking up to find no change.

I'm too cynical from the deluge of iToys. At this point, I'll believe it when I see it.

That about sums it up. I am feeling the same way.

[rmwebs]

That about sums it up. I am feeling the same way.


Yup same here.

I actually priced up a Dell and managed to get the following:

- Intel i7 2.93Ghz (i think)
- 8GB RAM
- 2x 2TB HDD

Basically the whole machine came to about £950. The Mac Pro (BASE MODEL) is £1900...so for LESS than half price, the dell has a better processor, 5GB more ram and 1.4TB more space.

Go figure :rolleyes:

[Roman23]

Nothing, nada will be updated tommorrow.. anyone care to wager?




Haha, it's pretty hilarious to see the various arguments people are pulling out of their a**, based on which computer they want.

Listen, all the computers have an equal chance of being updated tomorrow. As far as I'm concerned, it's an 8% chance of a Mac Pro update, 8% chance of iMac and 8% chance of MacBook Air. That leaves about a 75% chance that not a damn thing will happen tomorrow.

As for your "low stock" arguments, check Amazon. There's a low stock of Mac Pro's right now, in addition to the iMac. So, none of that really means anything. The most we have to work with are the video card drivers found in OS X.

Other than that, we have no leads favoring ANY of the computers over the others. Wait 12 hours and you will see what happens. Most likely absolutely nothing.

[johnnymg]

+1 to violent rampage, i'm talkin to a friend about helpin me build a HIGH end hakintosh, if I can be convinced of similar stability Im gonna do it, 3.33 6 core oc'd to over 4 ghz, 2 or 3 gtx 480's or 5870's in sli/crossfire for bootcamp games, 250 gig ss HD, 2 2tb hds 10k rpm for audio recording using logic/protools, nice ass 40+ inch LCD HDTV, 1033 MHz ram (I think, you know the faster ram) 6 slots, and all dat sheet.

Go for it.............. and please take your problems to one of the hack sites and NOT here.

[dissolve]

Lol, wouldn't it be nice to have 2 480's in sli... And LCD hdtvs are cheap as hell right now, some have half decent refresh rates, cinema display is stupid until price drop/ update

But the resolution on those TVs is lower than even 23 inch monitors (those that haven't given into the marketing of HD). I can't ever understand why someone would want to run a computer on a TV.

[WardC]

But the resolution on those TVs is lower than even 23 inch monitors (those that haven't given into the marketing of HD). I can't ever understand why someone would want to run a computer on a TV.

I don't really understand either, but maybe playing full-screen video and gaming, it might be nice on a 40" display :)

[Toaster Boy]

So I've made up my mind....if Apple doesn't refresh the Mac Pro line by tomorrow (July 13th) then I am definitely just going to buy one of the current generation ones. I have waited long enough and I just can't wait for anytime longer for Apple to release a new Mac Pro. If it doesn't happen tomorrow, it may be until September before the new ones come out. So, this is my decision, and I finally look forward to getting a new Mac Pro (I just returned a 27" iMac today due to high frequency noise coming from the display of the unit)

If you're picking it up at the Glendale, CA store, I'll be in line with you. :) Waited long enough to upgrade from my Dual 800 PowerPC. Even if an upgrade comes minutes after I purchase, I'll still feel like I'm flying.

[strausd]

Yup same here.

I actually priced up a Dell and managed to get the following:

- Intel i7 2.93Ghz (i think)
- 8GB RAM
- 2x 2TB HDD

Basically the whole machine came to about £950. The Mac Pro (BASE MODEL) is £1900...so for LESS than half price, the dell has a better processor, 5GB more ram and 1.4TB more space.

Go figure :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure everyone has already been through the whole "more powerful PC for less dough" thing. We all know Apple's prices are crazy and that they need to update their stuff.

I priced out a DP Dell workstation and the prices were extremely high. I am curious to see how much of a difference there will be between the Dell and Apple workstations when the Mac Pro is updated.

[WardC]

I priced out a DP Dell workstation and the prices were extremely high. I am curious to see how much of a difference there will be between the Dell and Apple workstations when the Mac Pro is updated.

You can get a Dell T5500 Workstation with dual X5680 6-core processors (12 core), 2x300GB SAS Hard drives, and 16GB of RAM for $4,919.00, new:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELL-WORKSTATION-T5500-2-X-XEON-6-CORE-X5680-3-33GHZ-/200494903933?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item2eae6d727d#ht_2613wt_1139

The best Mac Pro (2 x 2.93GHz X5570) is only 8-core, and base config with 16GB of RAM added and a 640GB HD is going to run you $6399 from the Apple Store.

12 cores is better than 8, right? Plus it's a faster clock speed. But good luck getting OS X to run on the Dell and have it recognize and use all 12-cores, looks like you will be stuck with Windows 7 Ultimate. Ick.

[strausd]

You can get a Dell T5500 Workstation with dual X5680 6-core processors (12 core), 2x300GB SAS Hard drives, and 16GB of RAM for $4,919.00, new:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELL-WORKSTATION-T5500-2-X-XEON-6-CORE-X5680-3-33GHZ-/200494903933?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item2eae6d727d#ht_2613wt_1139

The best Mac Pro (2 x 2.93GHz X5570) is only 8-core, and base config with 16GB of RAM added and a 640GB HD is going to run you $6399 from the Apple Store.

12 cores is better than 8, right? Plus it's a faster clock speed. But good luck getting OS X to run on the Dell and have it recognize and use all 12-cores, looks like you will be stuck with Windows 7 Ultimate. Ick.

We all know everything Apple is over-priced and the MP is way outdated. I don't consider that a fair comparison considering one is from ebay, where you can get stuff for pretty much some of the lowest prices in the world, and Apple, the exact opposite.

Edit: Also, just saw an 8-core MP on ebay for $1200.

[JustinBW]

We all know everything Apple is over-priced and the MP is way outdated. I don't consider that a fair comparison considering one is from ebay, where you can get stuff for pretty much some of the lowest prices in the world, and Apple, the exact opposite.

Edit: Also, just saw an 8-core MP on ebay for $1200.

Can you link that ^^, I might bid.

[strausd]

Can you link that ^^, I might bid.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-Mac-Pro-2-8GHz-8-Core-2x-Quad-Core-E5462-320GB-/170509915073?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Apple_Desktops&hash=item27b32ed3c1#ht_4256wt_913

[mgmusicman94]

I got a tip from my buddy who works at best buy. He said their store is getting it's first shipment of the new gen Mac pro in 2 months. It's a set date that they'll get it. But he said that apple is announcing it this month. So we know it will get an update soon!

[revelated]

Haha, it's pretty hilarious to see the various arguments people are pulling out of their a**, based on which computer they want.

Listen, all the computers have an equal chance of being updated tomorrow. As far as I'm concerned, it's an 8% chance of a Mac Pro update, 8% chance of iMac and 8% chance of MacBook Air. That leaves about a 75% chance that not a damn thing will happen tomorrow.

As for your "low stock" arguments, check Amazon. There's a low stock of Mac Pro's right now, in addition to the iMac. So, none of that really means anything. The most we have to work with are the video card drivers found in OS X.

Other than that, we have no leads favoring ANY of the computers over the others. Wait 12 hours and you will see what happens. Most likely absolutely nothing.

Wait...huh?

8...plus 8...plus 8...plus 75...hmm...I think you're missing 1% somewhere ;)

Maybe that's for the probability that Apple will release a MBP 13" with an i3 processor?

[slughead]

not to troll or anything... but apart from macworld events, has ANY of these "I'ma buy if they don't release one tomorrow" threads ever preceded a release?

If anything I think OP just jinxed it.

[WardC]

My plan right now (it's 12:07am CDT where I live)...so Apple wouldn't be refeshing their store page for a couple of hours. If they don't refrsh the Mac Pro...

I'm getting:

3.33GHz Quad Core
Radeon 4870 graphics upgrade
3GB of RAM *buy 16GB from OWC)
640GB HD *Buy a 256GB SSD and two 1TB drives from OWC

With 16GB of RAM, SSD, and a striped software RAID 0 system between the 2 drives I am ready to go. I can get all this for under $5500


machine will SCREAM boot drive and apps will be on SSD, Video and media will be on the software RAID 0 array.

This is my prime setup right now.

If they release a 6-core machine running at 3.33GHz or higher than I am definitely sinking my funds into that beast....I probably don't need 12 cores, but a 6 core Mac at 3.6GHz would fly, right? proably around the $4000 - $5000 range for that tower, with the Radeon 5780 and Airport card. Maybe a 3-5 day configure.

I want my Mac Pro!!!

[rajbonham]

Wait...huh?

8...plus 8...plus 8...plus 75...hmm...I think you're missing 1% somewhere ;)

Maybe that's for the probability that Apple will release a MBP 13" with an i3 processor?

Haha, That's why I said, "ABOUT 75%"... ;)

[Roman23]

If its the w3580, I just got that for less than what Apple would even charge for it.. I am going to wait on SSD until it comes down to consumer pricing.. right now, its out of my price range.



My plan right now (it's 12:07am CDT where I live)...so Apple wouldn't be refeshing their store page for a couple of hours. If they don't refrsh the Mac Pro...

I'm getting:

3.33GHz Quad Core
Radeon 4870 graphics upgrade
3GB of RAM *buy 16GB from OWC)
640GB HD *Buy a 256GB SSD and two 1TB drives from OWC

With 16GB of RAM, SSDm and a striped software RAID 0 system between tge 2 drives I am ready to go. I can get all this for under $5500

8888888888888888888888888
machine will SCREAM boot drive and apps will be on SSD, Video and media will be on the software RAID 0 array.

This is my prime setup right now.

If they release a 6-core machine running at 3.33GHz or higher than I am definitely sinking my funds into that best....I probably don't need 12 cores, but a 6 core Mac at 3.6GHz would fly, right? proably around the $4000 - $5000 range for that tower, with the 5780 and Airport card. Maybe a 3-5 day configure.

I want my Mac Pro!!!

[Roman23]

The way I see it, possibly in a few months..


I got a tip from my buddy who works at best buy. He said their store is getting it's first shipment of the new gen Mac pro in 2 months. It's a set date that they'll get it. But he said that apple is announcing it this month. So we know it will get an update soon!

[strausd]

My plan right now (it's 12:07am CDT where I live)...so Apple wouldn't be refeshing their store page for a couple of hours. If they don't refrsh the Mac Pro...

I'm getting:

3.33GHz Quad Core
Radeon 4870 graphics upgrade
3GB of RAM *buy 16GB from OWC)
640GB HD *Buy a 256GB SSD and two 1TB drives from OWC

With 16GB of RAM, SSDm and a striped software RAID 0 system between tge 2 drives I am ready to go. I can get all this for under $5500

8888888888888888888888888
machine will SCREAM boot drive and apps will be on SSD, Video and media will be on the software RAID 0 array.

This is my prime setup right now.

If they release a 6-core machine running at 3.33GHz or higher than I am definitely sinking my funds into that best....I probably don't need 12 cores, but a 6 core Mac at 3.6GHz would fly, right? proably around the $4000 - $5000 range for that tower, with the 5780 and Airport card. Maybe a 3-5 day configure.

I want my Mac Pro!!!

A Mac Pro with 6 cores and 12 threads, sounds amazing! And I sure hope you mean 5870 :)

You really think the price of a Mac Pro with the xeon 5680 will be in the 4000s? Considering there isn't much of a difference between the beginning estimated price points of the 5500s and 5600s, I expect the price to be about the same.

However, things like HDDs, RAM, GPU, and case design (if anything new) could bring the price up. If there is a price increase, I don't expect it to be because of the new CPUs.

[jjahshik32]

1:25am and still no update..

Looks like the OP's going to take the shot.

[Icaras]

1:25am and still no update..

Looks like the OP's going to take the shot.

No, it's way too early still and we go by Pacific Standard time. It's still Monday in Cupertino.

[gaspra]

No, it's way too early still and we go by Pacific Standard time. It's still Monday in Cupertino.

Well, doesn't seem like there will be an update. Just purchased the current one.

[rmwebs]

Well, doesn't seem like there will be an update. Just purchased the current one.

The store would have gone down by now...take a look at the times Arn has posted new mac releases...its always around 4AM EST. Its just coming up to 5AM EST. They've usually done the update by now.

Damn you Apple!

[ValSalva]

The store would have gone down by now...take a look at the times Arn has posted new mac releases...its always around 4AM EST. Its just coming up to 5AM EST. They've usually done the update by now.

Damn you Apple!

When they updated the Mac Mini last month the store didn't go down until about 6:00 AM EST. I suppose there is still some small hope for today.

[rmwebs]

When they updated the Mac Mini last month the store didn't go down until about 6:00 AM EST. I suppose there is still some small hope for today.

Did Arn go back in time then? :D

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/15/apple-updates-mac-mini-with-new-design/

[ValSalva]

Did Arn go back in time then? :D

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/15/apple-updates-mac-mini-with-new-design/

He must have, amazing :D Maybe I remember the store going down and then coming back up briefly before going down again. Remember, that was the iPhone pre-order launch day.

[Foggy]

I find the whole Mac Pro thing very frustrating. I certainly don't need 6-core processors but am hoping the base speed of the dual processor machine gets bumped up as that means more to me at present than the number of cores. I would just go for a single quad core but don't want the RAM restrictions they currently have - a dual with 12gb ram comes out cheaper than a single with 12gb at the mo =/

[rmwebs]

I find the whole Mac Pro thing very frustrating. I certainly don't need 6-core processors but am hoping the base speed of the dual processor machine gets bumped up as that means more to me at present than the number of cores. I would just go for a single quad core but don't want the RAM restrictions they currently have - a dual with 12gb ram comes out cheaper than a single with 12gb at the mo =/

Slower cpu speeds on the 8-core though :/ Half the apps wont touch the second CPU.

I really did consider going down the hackintosh line after I saw that you could get a Del with double the specs for half the price, however I really dont want that risk of instability :(

I'm really hating Apple right now....they have completely crapped all over the faces of its pro users and quite frankly deserves to loose the market!

[andyalibi]

So what happened then? Where is it? This is getting boring!!!!

[rmwebs]

So what happened then? Where is it? This is getting boring!!!!

It ain't happening....give up. Apple have decided the pro user is no longer a priority.

[LiquidSnake]

Amen...the MacPro is not a toy.

You say this but the Mac Pro becoming a "toy" could very well be the best thing for the Pro line. Most high end gaming machines or "toys" are way more than powerful enough to do "serious" jobs. And with steam out, a Mac Pro gaming edition could be the best thing for the Pro line in general, it would lead to more updates in the line and hopefully better driver support.

So I say bring on the toys!

[xgman]

Is the store layout and the Mac pro section different today or is it my imagination? For a minute I thought they had updated the mp, but then reality kicked in and nada ....... :(

[rmwebs]

Is the store layout and the Mac pro section different today or is it my imagination? For a minute I thought they had updated the mp, but then reality kicked in and nada ....... :(

Nope - no different.

[xgman]

After 9 and nothing. "another Tuesday". . .
I'm beginning to think the Mac pro may really be doomed. :(

[keewe]

not doomed. just an old piece of hardware when it finally gets released.

after today, september seems to be the date.

[HurryKayne]

well done stevi...good .job...
just like the m8s behind the "sacred secret of the curse of the antenna's issue..."
which is then the main reason why there aren't available engineers for the Pro's section...

i think Apple is losing its touch...
but,,,happy guys...we will gain new Oled Ipads...without any antenna..for January....iuuuuuuuuuuu000oooOOOOOOoiiiiiieeeeAAAAaaaaaaeheheheiiiii:rolleyes:
sad

[TheLOGICalone]

*******.

[dimensional]

They should rename this forum from "Mac Pro" to "Hackintosh" since the Hackintosh is the new Mac Pro!

[akdj]

"I'm really hating Apple right now....they have completely crapped all over the faces of its pro users and quite frankly deserves to loose the market!"

WOW! Do any other "Pro" users find statements like this staggeringly ignorant? I know I sure do:) LOL! I have an "Ancient" '08 dual quad 3.0ghz Mac Pro with 14gigs of RAM, and 6TB of storage (We do video!).

I have not found a SINGLE piece of software that taxes my rig...not ONE! Event the new CS5 suite from Adobe...FINALLY taking advantage of all 8 of my cores. We use FCP and Premier...as well as AfterEffects, Cinema 4d, and several sound applications.

I also get some "Flight Time" in with MS Flight Sim on a Windows partition, at a highly playable 50fps (FSX), and X-Plane 9! Any time I need a break from the editing bay...the option to do some gaming is always there...albeit, with the "Lowly" 8800gt:) Seriously! Even the bagging on GPUs is hilarious. Who puts this kind of money into a "Crysis" rig? When you can go to "I Buy Power" or "Falcon" or "Alienware" to get a dedicated gaming rig...with all the upgradability you could ever want....until Intel updates their CPUs that won't fit into your MoBo slots anymore!

Sorry...couldn't help it. Some of you younger Mac folks, I suppose I can kinda understand your frustrations...to an extent. I've been a cross platform user for over 20 years...the last 4 of which, we've switched to all Macs for our business and pleasure. With the Intel processors, and training wheels (Boot Camp), if you need a Windows only program (I use Adobe Audition, formerly Cool Edit Pro...and, the afore mentioned MS Flight Sim X)...the option is there. However, if I was in the market for a premier gaming rig, I wouldn't even consider a Mac! Although, I'm a huge fan of OSX. Windows still has the majority of the software support for serious gamers.

On the flip side...if it's creativitiy your seeking...I just don't see the hurry for an updated MacPro...unless, obviously you're suffering with an older PowerMac and you've exhausted it's abilities...in a business world, the computer is a total write off! And if you NEED the speed...the '09 MP is a monster! Are there quicker options available? Sure...maybe for some pieces of the puzzle (CPUs, GPUs, MoBos, etc)...but I've always considered the MacPro a total "System". When Apple feels they're ready to release the whole system, they will! There is a massive FCP and Logic following these days. I don't think Apple is ready to abandon the Pro market...and most pros I know aren't sitting around waiting for "Next Tuesday"! They're getting their work done on what is available. I can't imagine Boeing stalling production of the 787 because some new Composite laminator 3000XT is supposed to come out next Tuesday! You work with what you have!

Come on!!!! They've already launched two or three Space Shuttle missions this year...with nothing more than the venerable 286/386 processors!

If your current system gets the job done, use it! If it doesn't, replace it! There's always something new around the corner...however cliche that sounds;)

Sorry...I just don't know anyone that I work with, for, or that works for me in this market that is as desperate as half the folks on this board are for the next iteration of the Mac Pro...and I can't help but believe MOST of this noise is being made by folks that have NO NEED for the Mac Pro...and would be much better served with a Windows 1200 dollar I7 rig. YMMV

J

[TheLOGICalone]

"I'm really hating Apple right now....they have completely crapped all over the faces of its pro users and quite frankly deserves to loose the market!"

WOW! Do any other "Pro" users find statements like this staggeringly ignorant? I know I sure do:) LOL! I have an "Ancient" '08 dual quad 3.0ghz Mac Pro with 14gigs of RAM, and 6TB of storage (We do video!).

I have not found a SINGLE piece of software that taxes my rig...not ONE! Event the new CS5 suite from Adobe...FINALLY taking advantage of all 8 of my cores. We use FCP and Premier...as well as AfterEffects, Cinema 4d, and several sound applications.

I also get some "Flight Time" in with MS Flight Sim on a Windows partition, at a highly playable 50fps (FSX), and X-Plane 9! Any time I need a break from the editing bay...the option to do some gaming is always there...albeit, with the "Lowly" 8800gt:) Seriously! Even the bagging on GPUs is hilarious. Who puts this kind of money into a "Crysis" rig? When you can go to "I Buy Power" or "Falcon" or "Alienware" to get a dedicated gaming rig...with all the upgradability you could ever want....until Intel updates their CPUs that won't fit into your MoBo slots anymore!

Sorry...couldn't help it. Some of you younger Mac folks, I suppose I can kinda understand your frustrations...to an extent. I've been a cross platform user for over 20 years...the last 4 of which, we've switched to all Macs for our business and pleasure. With the Intel processors, and training wheels (Boot Camp), if you need a Windows only program (I use Adobe Audition, formerly Cool Edit Pro...and, the afore mentioned MS Flight Sim X)...the option is there. However, if I was in the market for a premier gaming rig, I wouldn't even consider a Mac! Although, I'm a huge fan of OSX. Windows still has the majority of the software support for serious gamers.

On the flip side...if it's creativitiy your seeking...I just don't see the hurry for an updated MacPro...unless, obviously you're suffering with an older PowerMac and you've exhausted it's abilities...in a business world, the computer is a total write off! And if you NEED the speed...the '09 MP is a monster! Are there quicker options available? Sure...maybe for some pieces of the puzzle (CPUs, GPUs, MoBos, etc)...but I've always considered the MacPro a total "System". When Apple feels they're ready to release the whole system, they will! There is a massive FCP and Logic following these days. I don't think Apple is ready to abandon the Pro market...and most pros I know aren't sitting around waiting for "Next Tuesday"! They're getting their work done on what is available. I can't imagine Boeing stalling production of the 787 because some new Composite laminator 3000XT is supposed to come out next Tuesday! You work with what you have!

Come on!!!! They've already launched two or three Space Shuttle missions this year...with nothing more than the venerable 286/386 processors!

If your current system gets the job done, use it! If it doesn't, replace it! There's always something new around the corner...however cliche that sounds;)

Sorry...I just don't know anyone that I work with, for, or that works for me in this market that is as desperate as half the folks on this board are for the next iteration of the Mac Pro...and I can't help but believe MOST of this noise is being made by folks that have NO NEED for the Mac Pro...and would be much better served with a Windows 1200 dollar I7 rig. YMMV

J

I hear you, and what you said does make sense. However, for logic I would like to have more than 4 cores, but the current 8 core is ****** value and low clock speed for single thread stuff, 6 cores would be perfect. Also, I want to play games on my mac, I don't want to have to buy another computer for that purpose. And I refuse to pay top dollar for a computer that has been outdated since like march with no price drop, and a graphics card so outdated that they don't even make it anymore. I just can't do it. My ability to wait is shrinking fast, and I'm loosing time, I know that when I absolutely need it I will buy no matter what, but I am still pissed about being left in the dark and the absurd standard configs, bto upgrade prices, and lack of price drop for a comparitively outdated computer. I'm angry, frustrated, and I feel disrespected, if osx wasn't so damn good and windows so damn bad, I dunno what I would do...

[sOid]

I hear you, and what you said does make sense. However, for logic I would like to have more than 4 cores, but the current 8 core is ****** value and low clock speed for single thread stuff, 6 cores would be perfect. Also, I want to play games on my mac, I don't want to have to buy another computer for that purpose. And I refuse to pay top dollar for a computer that has been outdated since like march with no price drop, and a graphics card so outdated that they don't even make it anymore. I just can't do it. My ability to wait is shrinking fast, and I'm loosing time, I know that when I absolutely need it I will buy no matter what, but I am still pissed about being left in the dark and the absurd standard configs, bto upgrade prices, and lack of price drop for a comparitively outdated computer. I'm angry, frustrated, and I feel disrespected, if osx wasn't so damn good and windows so damn bad, I dunno what I would do...
I couldn't agree more. This is exactly how I feel.

[andyalibi]

There's always something new around the corner...however cliche that sounds

@ AKDJ
Yes, that does sound cliched. I can't install FC Pro on my old G5 so need to get a new machine to be able to edit my 7D footage. I'll be extremely gutted if I invest considerable sums in a Mac Pro (which is 2 yrs old now?) and Apple bring out a new, faster, cheaper system the following week. Exactly this happened to me when i last bought a MacBook a couple of years ago (ie a new machine was released the following week).
My new machine will have to last me 3- 5 yrs so its down to money really, which seems like a reasonable concern to me. And for the record, I NEVER play games.

[TheLOGICalone]

Why does everyone hate on gamers, I'm sick of that. I'm buying a mac for logic, so I need a mac. But also, I like to play pc games, sorry. I work hard as s*** for my money and if I want to play computer games, I'm going to- I mean for Christ sakes I'm gonna shell out 5k for a system, I better dam well be able to max out every setting on every game for at least a year or two...and I'm NOT buying two computers or a console. Now with steam there is NO excuse for laughable gpu options/support.

[xgman]

Look, those of us that want this update, want it for a variety of reasons and if you find a problem with that, well then don't open these threads.

[tomscott1988]

Im sorry but anyone who says buy a macbook pro over a mac pro is mad, if you are in the market to buy a high performance machine to do serious work on a laptop is not the answer!
Even the 2008 mac pro ****** all over an i7 macbook pro! there still only dual core! even if you have a 17" with an i7 they are no match for a pro, limited graphics, limited storage, limited screen real estate.
Awesome for on the go no questions asked, but not as a main computer for a pro. The only pros who use macbook pros as there main machines obviously arnt making enough money. In a real world situation a pro has a macbook pro and a mac pro.

Sorry if this upsets you boys who dont make any money with your machines and cant afford both but it is the truth. Simple.

Ask 90% of pro's.

[tomscott1988]

"I'm really hating Apple right now....they have completely crapped all over the faces of its pro users and quite frankly deserves to loose the market!"

WOW! Do any other "Pro" users find statements like this staggeringly ignorant? I know I sure do:) LOL! I have an "Ancient" '08 dual quad 3.0ghz Mac Pro with 14gigs of RAM, and 6TB of storage (We do video!).

I have not found a SINGLE piece of software that taxes my rig...not ONE! Event the new CS5 suite from Adobe...FINALLY taking advantage of all 8 of my cores. We use FCP and Premier...as well as AfterEffects, Cinema 4d, and several sound applications.

I also get some "Flight Time" in with MS Flight Sim on a Windows partition, at a highly playable 50fps (FSX), and X-Plane 9! Any time I need a break from the editing bay...the option to do some gaming is always there...albeit, with the "Lowly" 8800gt:) Seriously! Even the bagging on GPUs is hilarious. Who puts this kind of money into a "Crysis" rig? When you can go to "I Buy Power" or "Falcon" or "Alienware" to get a dedicated gaming rig...with all the upgradability you could ever want....until Intel updates their CPUs that won't fit into your MoBo slots anymore!

Sorry...couldn't help it. Some of you younger Mac folks, I suppose I can kinda understand your frustrations...to an extent. I've been a cross platform user for over 20 years...the last 4 of which, we've switched to all Macs for our business and pleasure. With the Intel processors, and training wheels (Boot Camp), if you need a Windows only program (I use Adobe Audition, formerly Cool Edit Pro...and, the afore mentioned MS Flight Sim X)...the option is there. However, if I was in the market for a premier gaming rig, I wouldn't even consider a Mac! Although, I'm a huge fan of OSX. Windows still has the majority of the software support for serious gamers.

On the flip side...if it's creativitiy your seeking...I just don't see the hurry for an updated MacPro...unless, obviously you're suffering with an older PowerMac and you've exhausted it's abilities...in a business world, the computer is a total write off! And if you NEED the speed...the '09 MP is a monster! Are there quicker options available? Sure...maybe for some pieces of the puzzle (CPUs, GPUs, MoBos, etc)...but I've always considered the MacPro a total "System". When Apple feels they're ready to release the whole system, they will! There is a massive FCP and Logic following these days. I don't think Apple is ready to abandon the Pro market...and most pros I know aren't sitting around waiting for "Next Tuesday"! They're getting their work done on what is available. I can't imagine Boeing stalling production of the 787 because some new Composite laminator 3000XT is supposed to come out next Tuesday! You work with what you have!

Come on!!!! They've already launched two or three Space Shuttle missions this year...with nothing more than the venerable 286/386 processors!

If your current system gets the job done, use it! If it doesn't, replace it! There's always something new around the corner...however cliche that sounds;)

Sorry...I just don't know anyone that I work with, for, or that works for me in this market that is as desperate as half the folks on this board are for the next iteration of the Mac Pro...and I can't help but believe MOST of this noise is being made by folks that have NO NEED for the Mac Pro...and would be much better served with a Windows 1200 dollar I7 rig. YMMV

J

I cant agree more im fed up with all these idiots banging on about how there sytems are slow or bottlenecked because they dont have the newest technology! if this is the case dont buy a mac! I think 90% of these people dont use there pros to the max and its just so they can fill up the signature at the bottom of their posts. Make some money and buy when you NEED it.:eek:

[SatyMahajan]

http://www.satymahajan.com/?p=261

[akdj]

"@ AKDJ
Yes, that does sound cliched. I can't install FC Pro on my old G5 so need to get a new machine to be able to edit my 7D footage. I'll be extremely gutted if I invest considerable sums in a Mac Pro (which is 2 yrs old now?) and Apple bring out a new, faster, cheaper system the following week. Exactly this happened to me when i last bought a MacBook a couple of years ago (ie a new machine was released the following week).
My new machine will have to last me 3- 5 yrs so its down to money really, which seems like a reasonable concern to me. And for the record, I NEVER play games."

Really? I have a PB G4 running FCP 6 (For field edits and P2 offloads) just fine! And, with ProRes part of the FCP6 package, I can edit 7d/5d2 files just fine!

Also, Apple WILL allow up to 30 days for exchange. I find it hard to believe your story of buying a laptop...only to be updated a week later. Completely your fault for not following up with a replacement *Again, if it TRULY happened the way you say it did;)

Whoever mentioned Logic running 4-6- or 8 cores...That's been remedied. The latest Pro update allowed Logic to run in 64bit. Next...FCP, hopefully (Fingers crossed).

J

[Plutonius]

So I've made up my mind....if Apple doesn't refresh the Mac Pro line by tomorrow (July 13th) then I am definitely just going to buy one of the current generation ones. I have waited long enough and I just can't wait for anytime longer for Apple to release a new Mac Pro. If it doesn't happen tomorrow, it may be until September before the new ones come out. So, this is my decision, and I finally look forward to getting a new Mac Pro (I just returned a 27" iMac today due to high frequency noise coming from the display of the unit)

I really like my 2.93 quad and I'm glad I decided to buy it last year.

[rmwebs]

"I'm really hating Apple right now....they have completely crapped all over the faces of its pro users and quite frankly deserves to loose the market!"

WOW! Do any other "Pro" users find statements like this staggeringly ignorant? I know I sure do:) LOL! I have an "Ancient" '08 dual quad 3.0ghz Mac Pro with 14gigs of RAM, and 6TB of storage (We do video!).

I have not found a SINGLE piece of software that taxes my rig...not ONE! Event the new CS5 suite from Adobe...FINALLY taking advantage of all 8 of my cores. We use FCP and Premier...as well as AfterEffects, Cinema 4d, and several sound applications.

I also get some "Flight Time" in with MS Flight Sim on a Windows partition, at a highly playable 50fps (FSX), and X-Plane 9! Any time I need a break from the editing bay...the option to do some gaming is always there...albeit, with the "Lowly" 8800gt:) Seriously! Even the bagging on GPUs is hilarious. Who puts this kind of money into a "Crysis" rig? When you can go to "I Buy Power" or "Falcon" or "Alienware" to get a dedicated gaming rig...with all the upgradability you could ever want....until Intel updates their CPUs that won't fit into your MoBo slots anymore!

Sorry...couldn't help it. Some of you younger Mac folks, I suppose I can kinda understand your frustrations...to an extent. I've been a cross platform user for over 20 years...the last 4 of which, we've switched to all Macs for our business and pleasure. With the Intel processors, and training wheels (Boot Camp), if you need a Windows only program (I use Adobe Audition, formerly Cool Edit Pro...and, the afore mentioned MS Flight Sim X)...the option is there. However, if I was in the market for a premier gaming rig, I wouldn't even consider a Mac! Although, I'm a huge fan of OSX. Windows still has the majority of the software support for serious gamers.

On the flip side...if it's creativitiy your seeking...I just don't see the hurry for an updated MacPro...unless, obviously you're suffering with an older PowerMac and you've exhausted it's abilities...in a business world, the computer is a total write off! And if you NEED the speed...the '09 MP is a monster! Are there quicker options available? Sure...maybe for some pieces of the puzzle (CPUs, GPUs, MoBos, etc)...but I've always considered the MacPro a total "System". When Apple feels they're ready to release the whole system, they will! There is a massive FCP and Logic following these days. I don't think Apple is ready to abandon the Pro market...and most pros I know aren't sitting around waiting for "Next Tuesday"! They're getting their work done on what is available. I can't imagine Boeing stalling production of the 787 because some new Composite laminator 3000XT is supposed to come out next Tuesday! You work with what you have!

Come on!!!! They've already launched two or three Space Shuttle missions this year...with nothing more than the venerable 286/386 processors!

If your current system gets the job done, use it! If it doesn't, replace it! There's always something new around the corner...however cliche that sounds;)

Sorry...I just don't know anyone that I work with, for, or that works for me in this market that is as desperate as half the folks on this board are for the next iteration of the Mac Pro...and I can't help but believe MOST of this noise is being made by folks that have NO NEED for the Mac Pro...and would be much better served with a Windows 1200 dollar I7 rig. YMMV

J


You quoted me at the top of your post, and ASSUMED I was moaning due to lack of power....that's not the case.

I was complaining because Apple is charging an extortionate price (even for Apple) for old hardware, whilst the cheaper 27" iMac comes with equal or better specs. This is what annoys me.

Apple need to get over themselves and lower the damn price. If this was any other company, they would have either provided something new to the machine, or lowered the price.

It would take Apple 5 minutes to reconfigure the pro. Bump the RAM up slightly, go up to the next CPU speed, and stick a TB hard drive in there...that's ALL they needed to do....but they wont because of their belief that they can sucker people into buying an overpriced machine.

Now I know some smartass is thinking 'buy an iMac then'. No idea about anyone else, but I've had enough of the iMac. I wont go into detail as that's for another day, but lets just say my personal experience has been a bad one with the iMac.

Now...dont get me wrong. I love Apple as much as the next guy. But I wont deny that over the last few months, I've started looking at them as a failing computer company, and a successful mobile company.

[Torster]

I have not found a SINGLE piece of software that taxes my rig...not ONE! Event the new CS5 suite from Adobe...FINALLY taking advantage of all 8 of my cores. We use FCP and Premier...as well as AfterEffects, Cinema 4d, and several sound applications.

If you work with .R3D files from RED ONE, you can never have enough power...

Torrey

[donw35]

I am waiting to see what happens, I want to get a Mac Pro but I'v got the time, if September is the time then I can wait another couple of months although this has made for very interesting reading.

[dimensional]

Why does everyone hate on gamers, I'm sick of that. I'm buying a mac for logic, so I need a mac. But also, I like to play pc games, sorry. I work hard as s*** for my money and if I want to play computer games, I'm going to- I mean for Christ sakes I'm gonna shell out 5k for a system, I better dam well be able to max out every setting on every game for at least a year or two...and I'm NOT buying two computers or a console. Now with steam there is NO excuse for laughable gpu options/support.

Apple fanboys don't hate gamers. They are just a convenient scapegoat to deflect negative attention away from their idols and gods.

[andyalibi]

Really? I have a PB G4 running FCP 6 (For field edits and P2 offloads) just fine! And, with ProRes part of the FCP6 package, I can edit 7d/5d2 files just fine!
Also, Apple WILL allow up to 30 days for exchange. I find it hard to believe your story of buying a laptop...only to be updated a week later. Completely your fault for not following up with a replacement *Again, if it TRULY happened the way you say it did;)

Yes...REALLY!
1. Each time i try to install my legit copy of FCP7 it tells me i need I need an Intel machine. I don't have FCP6 and would prefer to not have to go looking for 'non-legit' earlier version. Seems reasonable. My current (legit) version of FCE4 will not work with ProRes period. Gutted.
2. This certainly did happen, tho its true I was working on a job abroad and certainly wasn't in a position to do anything about it either way. Do you REALLY really find this so hard to believe... and what if it was 31 days or 32 days? You think i will be any less gutted? Like i said, the rig will have to last me years and it seems perfectly reasonable for folk to get pissed at Apple for not informing loyal customers.

Jeez, i came to this thread just to find a bit of info and save myself getting burnt again, not to get flamed... So if anyone has any helpful info or work-around for editing Pro-res on a G5 PPC (rather than sanctimonious waffle by someone with too much time on their hands) i'd be real grateful. Cheers and Peace! :)

[halprin]

Also, Apple WILL allow up to 30 days for exchange.

If I am correct, Apple's return policy is 14 days: http://storeimages.apple.com/1720/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html#topic-21

According to that link, Apple's says that one must initiate a return within 14 days to initiate a return. You then have another 14 days to get the Apple product back to the warehouse from when the RMA is issued. So, if the person waits the maximum amount of time, that gives him or her 28 days. Is that what you meant? Or is there a way to have 30 days to initiate a return?

[ValSalva]

You quoted me at the top of your post, and ASSUMED I was moaning due to lack of power....that's not the case.

I was complaining because Apple is charging an extortionate price (even for Apple) for old hardware, whilst the cheaper 27" iMac comes with equal or better specs. This is what annoys me.

Apple need to get over themselves and lower the damn price. If this was any other company, they would have either provided something new to the machine, or lowered the price.

It would take Apple 5 minutes to reconfigure the pro. Bump the RAM up slightly, go up to the next CPU speed, and stick a TB hard drive in there...that's ALL they needed to do....but they wont because of their belief that they can sucker people into buying an overpriced machine.

Now I know some smartass is thinking 'buy an iMac then'. No idea about anyone else, but I've had enough of the iMac. I wont go into detail as that's for another day, but lets just say my personal experience has been a bad one with the iMac.

Now...dont get me wrong. I love Apple as much as the next guy. But I wont deny that over the last few months, I've started looking at them as a failing computer company, and a successful mobile company.

Agreed. The '09 Mac Pro still is a beast of a computer. But 16 months later it shouldn't cost exactly the same as when it was first released. It may be a business expense but that doesn't come close to justifying the diminishing by the day performance per dollar value of the "new" '09 Mac Pro.

[xgman]

I cant agree more im fed up with all these idiots banging on about how there sytems are slow or bottlenecked because they dont have the newest technology! if this is the case dont buy a mac! I think 90% of these people dont use there pros to the max and its just so they can fill up the signature at the bottom of their posts. Make some money and buy when you NEED it.:eek:

Simple fix for you, DON'T READ THEM!

[manhattanboy]

Agreed. The '09 Mac Pro still is a beast of a computer. But 16 months later it shouldn't cost exactly the same as when it was first released. It may be a business expense but that doesn't come close to justifying the diminishing by the day performance per dollar value of the "new" '09 Mac Pro.

LOL.

I have been looking at the various Windows specs now for 2 months.
The more I examine it, the more I realize that for 1/3rd the cost, I can get comparable performance.

Considering that I really would bootcamp up a new Mac pro anyways, it doesn't make sense anymore to wait.

It's hard to swallow leaving the Mac. But I did it once when I left the iPhone and am quite happy after the initial shocks, so I guess I can do it again...

I am reminded of sin #1 in how the mighty fall.
Hubris.
And it seems that it has infected Apple's concern for their customers.
Time to abandon ship? Or is everyone waiting for Apple to reach sin #2?

[The Rominator]

I had really hoped to wake up today and read about you know what.

Not because I want one, but because I want a 2008/09 machine and the used market for those has been artificially propped up by lack of new ones.

And more importantly, Apple seems to be waiting for new Pro to release new GPUs.

It is fairly unprecedented that Apple leaked the 5870/5850/5750/5770 drivers themselves right after Nvidia leaked Fermi drivers. The 4870 drivers and ROM were successfully kept secret until Nehalem Macs came out. The GTX285 Mac drivers appeared WITH the card. (on a disk in box iirc)

The leaking of BOTH NEW GPU drivers in the space of a week in uncharacteristically sloppy for Apple. Normally I would guess that heads were rolling somewhere, but maybe it was planned?

Maybe to give hope when they knew they had a box full of nothing to offer in near future?

Or maybe they just don't care so much anymore?

Either way, it is quite likely that we are just one update leak away from having both of those GPU families working nicely in Macs. Will take a bit of the punch out of a "An All NEW Mac Pro with 2 ALL NEW GPUs !!!" if every Tom, Dick, and Harry already has a 5870 or GTX480 running in his '06.

Odd times indeed. And if they are delaying BOTH GPU families just to have a bigger "release" day, how very silly of them. But come to think of it, we had 4870 near-parity with PC world for about 2 weeks, then they got 4890. So perhaps Mac Pro w/5870 will come out 2 weeks before the 5890 from ATI/AMD?

[TheLOGICalone]

thank god, a sane perspective on mac pro graphics, thank you.

I had really hoped to wake up today and read about you know what.

Not because I want one, but because I want a 2008/09 machine and the used market for those has been artificially propped up by lack of new ones.

And more importantly, Apple seems to be waiting for new Pro to release new GPUs.

It is fairly unprecedented that Apple leaked the 5870/5850/5750/5770 drivers themselves right after Nvidia leaked Fermi drivers. The 4870 drivers and ROM were successfully kept secret until Nehalem Macs came out. The GTX285 Mac drivers appeared WITH the card. (on a disk in box iirc)

The leaking of BOTH NEW GPU drivers in the space of a week in uncharacteristically sloppy for Apple. Normally I would guess that heads were rolling somewhere, but maybe it was planned?

Maybe to give hope when they knew they had a box full of nothing to offer in near future?

Or maybe they just don't care so much anymore?

Either way, it is quite likely that we are just one update leak away from having both of those GPU families working nicely in Macs. Will take a bit of the punch out of a "An All NEW Mac Pro with 2 ALL NEW GPUs !!!" if every Tom, Dick, and Harry already has a 5870 or GTX480 running in his '06.

Odd times indeed. And if they are delaying BOTH GPU families just to have a bigger "release" day, how very silly of them. But come to think of it, we had 4870 near-parity with PC world for about 2 weeks, then they got 4890. So perhaps Mac Pro w/5870 will come out 2 weeks before the 5890 from ATI/AMD?

[mattbatt]

If you work with .R3D files from RED ONE, you can never have enough power...



I agree Torrey, btw, are you guys gonna wait for the next update? Are you running 09 MacPro's?

I had talked to you all a few months back (I work at Folsom Lake College and do video / design work for the college), nice seeing you on here.

Ya, today I am really frustrated because I am in a tight spot with my G5 dead in the water. I need a pro machine, but am thinking about building a hackintosh.

MacPro prices are so overpriced right now.

I wish the iMac had eSATA, I would build an external raid and go with that for now.

I think September still holds out hope for an update.

[Toaster Boy]

Just purchased mine! Head back tonight to pick it up. Enough waiting and a big Quad Core Processor salute to the Dual 800 which is still chugging along for it's years of service!

[Roman23]

PC is way better for gaming..


You say this but the Mac Pro becoming a "toy" could very well be the best thing for the Pro line. Most high end gaming machines or "toys" are way more than powerful enough to do "serious" jobs. And with steam out, a Mac Pro gaming edition could be the best thing for the Pro line in general, it would lead to more updates in the line and hopefully better driver support.

So I say bring on the toys!

[slughead]

The leaking of BOTH NEW GPU drivers in the space of a week in uncharacteristically sloppy for Apple. Normally I would guess that heads were rolling somewhere, but maybe it was planned?

I'd been waiting for someone to dig up the historical correlation between drivers and revisions.

As a person who has recently dealt with a recent bureaucratic nightmare, I may be biased but I think I have a pretty good theory:

I think that the Mac Pro was slated for release and then delayed for some reason. It could be a supply chain problem, production problem, or worst case: a marketing problem. It could also be that Apple has temporarily shifted production over from one facility to another for their recent iCrap dump.

It's all conjecture, but I'm betting they were planning to have released the dang thing already.

And like you, my motivation for wanting the new mac pros to come out is not so I can buy one. My reason is different though: the more mac pros, the more 3rd party stuff (like GPUs) become available for my mac pro so I don't have to buy a PC or pay a ridiculous premium (http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=243) for some of the silly idiosyncrasies of Apple hardware.

Also, it'd be nice to not have to boot into Windows someday for games. Right now, Apple SUUUUCCKS for games because they refuse to include decent GPUs (why make a game nobody can play?).

[slughead]

You say this but the Mac Pro becoming a "toy" could very well be the best thing for the Pro line. Most high end gaming machines or "toys" are way more than powerful enough to do "serious" jobs. And with steam out, a Mac Pro gaming edition could be the best thing for the Pro line in general, it would lead to more updates in the line and hopefully better driver support.

So I say bring on the toys!

Difference between "toy" gaming machines and "pro" machines:

Companies call them "Professional" or "workstations" so they can slap a bigger price tag on them for only slightly better performance at specific tasks than the Toys.

That's the only difference. It's called price discrimination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination) (see link).

Someone said the mac pro is not a "toy"... it's a freakin lump of parts, get over it: you can use it for whatever you want. The snooty attitude towards games just keeps supply scarce, updates rare, and prices incredibly high.

[Roman23]

Folks,

The Mac Pro was NEVER designed to be a gaming machine.. Nor will it ever be a gaming machine.. if you are looking for kickass video cards to put into the mac pro, you are advised to go somewhere else. The Mac Pro is a pro-line system and for professional based people and businesses. However, the single-quad core mac pro at a reasonable price of 2100.00 can actually be a good, and decent home computer desktop, but again like its 8-core siblings, it can't play games more efficiently than a PC since the PC has 1000's of more parts and video cards for it compared to the mac.

While steam will play great on the mac pro, I think on a PC it will play far more superior given that you can SLI or crossfire and although the Mac Pro offers crossfire under windows in limited capacity, the PC would be a better choice for gaming aside an xbox or playstation.

End of discussion!



Difference between "toy" gaming machines and "pro" machines:

Companies call them "Professional" or "workstations" so they can slap a bigger price tag on them for only slightly better performance at specific tasks than the Toys.

That's the only difference. It's called price discrimination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination) (see link).

Someone said the mac pro is not a "toy"... it's a freakin lump of parts, get over it: you can use it for whatever you want. The snooty attitude towards games just keeps supply scarce, updates rare, and prices incredibly high.

[slughead]

The Mac Pro was NEVER designed to be a gaming machine.. Nor will it ever be a gaming machine..

Maybe you should read my previous post.

Yeah, the MP as it stands is a poor choice for people who want to use it for gaming because it's too freakin expensive. It has nothing to do with the hardware, the hardware is just overpriced.

You point out that the mac platform has few games and few video card choices. I point out that this is because Apple refuses to release some good video cards (even in their lesser computers) and therefore expand the game market as well as refusing to release a computer that can be upgraded and that isn't 2 fold more expensive than it should be. Lower the price, add more options, the market will grow, and other manufacturers will produce 3rd party upgrades that will entice gamers to choose mac--thus allowing game manufacturers to actually support the platform as well without it being a wasted investment.

[grue]

Folks,

The Mac Pro was NEVER designed to be a gaming machine.. Nor will it ever be a gaming machine.. if you are looking for kickass video cards to put into the mac pro, you are advised to go somewhere else. The Mac Pro is a pro-line system and for professional based people and businesses. However, the single-quad core mac pro at a reasonable price of 2100.00 can actually be a good, and decent home computer desktop, but again like its 8-core siblings, it can't play games more efficiently than a PC since the PC has 1000's of more parts and video cards for it compared to the mac.

While steam will play great on the mac pro, I think on a PC it will play far more superior given that you can SLI or crossfire and although the Mac Pro offers crossfire under windows in limited capacity, the PC would be a better choice for gaming aside an xbox or playstation.

End of discussion!

HURRR DUUUUURRRRRRRRR elitism is awesome!!11

Nevermind that plenty of people might need the Mac Pro for their work, and want to game on the side without buying a dedicated computer for it. GOD FORBID they put the taint of Windows on their precious Mac! Dear god, the lord Steve might smite us for blasphemy and the DirectX Cult will rage because we're not using the absolute best gaming solution in the world.

Christ's crotch on a cub scout, some of you people need to get over yourselves. It's a computer, stop fellating it.


You point out that the mac platform has few games and few video card choices. I point out that this is because Apple refuses to release some good video cards and therefore expand the game market as well as refusing to release a computer that can be upgraded and that isn't 2 fold more expensive than it should be.



How is that Apple's fault? Nvid and Ati don't need to wait for handjobs from Cupertino, they can release video cards any time they want. However, there's clearly very little market for them outside of Apple using them as an OEM.

[Roman23]

But for this to happen, I think Mr. Jobs needs to step down and bring a new young gamer as the ceo of Apple, Inc and then you will see technologies in the mac on the mac side such as: crossfire, sli, etc...

I agree.. however until such a day comes where OS X can really be installed without headaches like Linux, I shall wait on building a hackintosh.


Maybe you should read my previous post.

Yeah, the MP as it stands is a poor choice for people who want to use it for gaming because it's too freakin expensive. It has nothing to do with the hardware, the hardware is just overpriced.

You point out that the mac platform has few games and few video card choices. I point out that this is because Apple refuses to release some good video cards (even in their lesser computers) and therefore expand the game market as well as refusing to release a computer that can be upgraded and that isn't 2 fold more expensive than it should be. Lower the price, add more options, the market will grow, and other manufacturers will produce 3rd party upgrades that will entice gamers to choose mac--thus allowing game manufacturers to actually support the platform as well without it being a wasted investment.

[slughead]

How is that Apple's fault? Nvid and Ati don't need to wait for handjobs from Cupertino, they can release video cards any time they want. However, there's clearly very little market for them outside of Apple using them as an OEM.

I meant to add in: Apple made all of their "consumer" computers (iMac, Mini, macbook) lumpy bunches of poop--that's their fault.

Only recently have they put any kind of GPU worth playing a game on into their "affordable" computers. This has lead directly to the new games that have come out. Unfortunately there's no incentive for companies to release 3rd party cards for the mac pro line (which nobody owns, and the few who do are less likely to be gamers). That could change if they stop seeing the MP as a "pro" money pit and actually put some mid-range parts into it and sell it at a decent price.

[Roman23]

I have no real love/hate relationship between Mac os X and WIndows.. On contrar, I also run windows 7 as a separate drive on my mac pro and so far I am extremely pleased with its performance.. for my specs, the OS rates it all at 7.8 out of 7.9 - a worthy number if you ask me.. try that on a PC. But not getting off a tangent here... I just firmly believe that the philosophy behind the Mac was never to take over the gaming market... rather, its goal was to influnce and revolve around the arts such as: video editing, rendering, etc.. audio creation..

Windows does lack some good software that Apple uses for this purpose, but given the direction I see for the Mac, there might not be(in steve's eyes) a need to implement crossfire or sli as those technologies are considered windowsish and as such are not to be put on a mac logic board..

I think its pretty senseless though, as I have high hopes that one day he will step down and someone brighter, and younger who happens to be a gamer might implement such said technologies.. But I don't ever see that happening, given the current direction of Apple.



HURRR DUUUUURRRRRRRRR elitism is awesome!!11

Nevermind that plenty of people might need the Mac Pro for their work, and want to game on the side without buying a dedicated computer for it. GOD FORBID they put the taint of Windows on their precious Mac! Dear god, the lord Steve might smite us for blasphemy and the DirectX Cult will rage because we're not using the absolute best gaming solution in the world.

Christ's crotch on a cub scout, some of you people need to get over yourselves. It's a computer, stop fellating it.

This is 100 percent true.. ATI doesn't see a huge market for such video cards.. and Nvidia I don't know much about, but according to nanofrog, nvidia is in serious financial problems right now.


How is that Apple's fault? Nvid and Ati don't need to wait for handjobs from Cupertino, they can release video cards any time they want. However, there's clearly very little market for them outside of Apple using them as an OEM.

The Mac Pro is simply not built around gaming as you say.. it has the potential yes, but Apple doesn't want to get involved with that.. and perhaps this may be why no such update to the mac pro is not happening at least right now..

Sandy Bridge opens a lot of nice opportunities for the mac pro.. but whether or not it will be a middle priced machine including crossfire or sli is anyone's guess.. I don't see that happening under the current CEO or execs.

I firmly believe however that our mac pros can be great game boxes, but it would require a lot of thinking in terms of a future model.. GAMING THESE days almost is much more fun using crossfire and sli.. Perhaps in the future maybe when Jobs steps down we may see a nice price for a beefed up mac pro being able to take on the hard-core pc gaming machines.. but not now.


I meant to add in: Apple made all of their "consumer" computers (iMac, Mini, macbook) lumpy bunches of poop--that's their fault.

Only recently have they put any kind of GPU worth playing a game on into their "affordable" computers. This has lead directly to the new games that have come out. Unfortunately there's no incentive for companies to release 3rd party cards for the mac pro line (which nobody owns, and the few who do are less likely to be gamers). That could change if they stop seeing the MP as a "pro" money pit and actually put some mid-range parts into it and sell it at a decent price.

[deconstruct60]

It has nothing to do with the hardware, the hardware is just overpriced.


Equivalent hardware, tower (not mini) workstations are priced about the same from most "PC" vendors. Apple doesn't make a mini tower. Nor does Apple make a high end modular/upgrade multiple core parts oriented box with fans glalore , bling bling lighting , and a socket for every imaginable device a consumer could buy.

They don't build those product. The disccussion with Apple likely go no where as long as misdirect assignments and value placements.

Lower the price, add more options, the market will grow, and other manufacturers will produce 3rd party upgrades that will entice gamers to choose mac--.

This just myopically looks at the market from a gamer perspective. There is the whole mac market. The Mac sub market is about 4-7% of the overall personal computer market. Apple isn't trying to push it higher. All primarily want to do is just keep that percentage from shrinking. As the overall market grows, so do they but not trying to outgrow the market. So if the intense gamer market is 25% (being very generous) of the overall market then this market talking about is about 1-1.75% of the market. if the intense gamer market is closer to 10% then down in the sub 1% range. Vendors aren't going to bend over backwards for 1%, especially when it comes at additional costs.

Every year mainstream GPUs get faster and faster. The evil "mobile" GPUs that are put into iMacs , mini's and mac laptops are just as fast as stuff from 3 years ago. If gameplay (the substance of the game) matters more than how many polygons can burp onto the screen than going to have a set of entertaining games to choose from. ( people play PSPs, gameboys, iOS devices all the time and they don't have earth shattering SLI/Crossifire , etc stats on their GPUs. ) It boils down to substantiveness over tech stats.

It isn't apple is necessarily against games. it is the notion that need to dump 45-65% of power supply into graphics pipeline(s) to be "creditable player" in the market.

It is also completely the tail wagging the dog situation when trying to assert Apple needs to change systems pricing so that can sell more video cards. That's backwards. If selling more systems meant selling more video cards they would. However, Apple using number of discrete video cards sold as a primary goal metric is backwards.

Neither does Apple require intense gamers to stay afloat. They just need 4-6% of the market of overall market. There are plenty of demographics to go after. It should also be obvious that the long term trend is that generally the GPU is going to get folded into the CPU package. Discrete video cards is not a huge market growth segment over next 5-6 years.



As the number of units in the Mac market gets bigger it will get more attractive to those vendors are perhaps looking for anything. However, as long as they primarily do risk/reward versus the overall market it will always be a smaller play.

[LiquidSnake]

Difference between "toy" gaming machines and "pro" machines:

Companies call them "Professional" or "workstations" so they can slap a bigger price tag on them for only slightly better performance at specific tasks than the Toys.

That's the only difference. It's called price discrimination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination) (see link).

Someone said the mac pro is not a "toy"... it's a freakin lump of parts, get over it: you can use it for whatever you want. The snooty attitude towards games just keeps supply scarce, updates rare, and prices incredibly high.

Agreed, I just think its funny how if it is called a "gaming" machine it is looked down upon as a "toy", however compare what people want in a Mac Pro revision to some of the computers coming out from brands such as Alienware... its the same thing.

PC is way better for gaming..

While I do not disagree with you on this point, I do not see why you say "I don't" to "Bring on the toys!".

If Apple decided to step into the game, of gaming, would lead to more constant updates than whats out now, all the pro non "toy" users will get to benefit by being able to stay current, and not have to buy hardware that is always 6 months behind.

Just because a computer has a high end graphics card does not mean it should be labeled a "gaming toy". Just because people's workstation needs might not be graphics intensive, there are many other Pro users who I'm sure would just love to have these higher end cards for high end video, 3d graphics, rendering, etc. The faster the GPU the faster work can get done, and after all time is money.

Besides, its not like you would be forced to buy these high end GPUs, Apple will still more than likely keep other options, because some Pro users don't do graphics intensive productions, and there's nothing wrong with that. It just seems that some of posters earlier in this thread saying the Mac Pro is not a "toy", but just because you do not need a higher end graphics card in your particular application, does not mean you should discount every other Pro user.

Bottom line is, if Apple decided to get even a bit more serious about gaming on the Mac platform, we all win. From the sound engineer to the graphics animators to gamers, we would all win.

[strausd]

Just because a computer has a high end graphics card does not mean it should be labeled a "gaming toy". Just because people's workstation needs might not be graphics intensive, there are many other Pro users who I'm sure would just love to have these higher end cards for high end video, 3d graphics, rendering, etc. The faster the GPU the faster work can get done, and after all time is money.



Generally rendering is more CPU intensive, which is one reason I am eagerly awaiting a 12-core MP.

[Foggy]

Slower cpu speeds on the 8-core though :/ Half the apps wont touch the second CPU.

I really did consider going down the hackintosh line after I saw that you could get a Del with double the specs for half the price, however I really dont want that risk of instability :(

I'm really hating Apple right now....they have completely crapped all over the faces of its pro users and quite frankly deserves to loose the market!

I agree completely, for me wanting the 2 cpu version is nothing to do with the 2nd cpu but completely about wanting the extra ram capacity, although there is part of me that expects the extra cores to be utilised more over the lifetime of the machine.

What is going to kill me is that I don't need a new machine this side of August, but come the start of September my workload ramps up significantly and I am going to find it very difficult to push the button to buy a machine that is a year and a half old at full price.

[PeterQVenkman]

Generally rendering is more CPU intensive, which is one reason I am eagerly awaiting a 12-core MP.

Except when using a GPU based renderer, of course. ;)

Tried Octane out a while back. Very cool. I'll stick with my old CPU bound renderers for now, though.

[revelated]

I know some got impatient...

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/23/mac_pro_retail_inventories_suggest_imminent_update.html

[Roman23]

Old news..


I know some got impatient...

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/23/mac_pro_retail_inventories_suggest_imminent_update.html

[ValSalva]

I know some got impatient...

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/23/mac_pro_retail_inventories_suggest_imminent_update.html

Go and check several stores. They all have Mac Pros ready for in store pickup now. It was probably a glitch. We'll know for sure in a couple of days.

[Cindori]

so now it's coming.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/23/mac-pro-unavailable-for-in-store-reservations-at-many-locations/

edit:nvm, repost

[revelated]

Go and check several stores. They all have Mac Pros ready for in store pickup now. It was probably a glitch. We'll know for sure in a couple of days.

Yeah, I'm just posting the rumor.

For the record I wanted to get a Mac Pro as a server at my job - which didn't fly due to the cost of it, but that's ok. Anyway, around these parts the lower config wasn't readily available. The more expensive one was. Take that for what it's worth.

[Roman23]

ITS NOT COMING!! I called my own Apple store and yes under apple's website it also said: Unavailable there, but called and confirmed - they have plenty of 2009's, mostly quad-core.. and they further told me that that is NOT an indication of a new model coming out.. so there you have it.

God these things are making me sick.


I know some got impatient...

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/23/mac_pro_retail_inventories_suggest_imminent_update.html

so now it's coming.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/23/mac-pro-unavailable-for-in-store-reservations-at-many-locations/

edit:nvm, repost

[strausd]

ITS NOT COMING!! I called my own Apple store and yes under apple's website it also said: Unavailable there, but called and confirmed - they have plenty of 2009's, mostly quad-core.. and they further told me that that is NOT an indication of a new model coming out.. so there you have it.

God these things are making me sick.

Since when are normal Apple store employees aware of new releases? If they always had knowledge of new releases, then we wouldn't need rumors, we could just hear it from the employees. And stop whining because people are talking about Apple rumors, this is macrumors you know.

[Roman23]

and that is what he told me.. in fact, I might go up there today as I need to pick up a time capsule for my mac pro.


Since when are normal Apple store employees aware of new releases? If they always had knowledge of new releases, then we wouldn't need rumors, we could just hear it from the employees. And stop whining because people are talking about Apple rumors, this is macrumors you know.

[keewe]

dude... your standard reply "ITS NOT COMING!!!!!1111" to every single rumor is pretty... well, annoying.

[Roman23]

This tuesday.. If anything, September - maybe.

But the thing about "unavailable" has nothing to do with a new model coming out as least not from what I found out as I showed this thread to my friend who works at my local Apple store(just got back) and he told me its BS and not to believe it.

In fact he told me that the Apple Store in Towson, MD has plenty of quad-core mac pros in stock.. 8-cores would have to be ordered on-line.

[strausd]

This tuesday.. If anything, September - maybe.

But the thing about "unavailable" has nothing to do with a new model coming out as least not from what I found out as I showed this thread to my friend who works at my local Apple store(just got back) and he told me its BS and not to believe it.

In fact he told me that the Apple Store in Towson, MD has plenty of quad-core mac pros in stock.. 8-cores would have to be ordered on-line.

ANY PROOF?!?!?! I WANT COLD HARD EVIDENCE NOW OR THAT IS COMPLETE BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!

My impression of you ;)

Again, since when do Apple store employees get inside info?!?!?! THEY DON'T! And it seriously is annoying how you always say the same thing to every rumor. Just shut up already, everyone knows what you think.

[Roman23]

ISN'T lying.. I showed him these threads and he told me its bull... complete bull and not to worry about it though really why should I? Why do I need to care? Not like I am using my mac pro for industry related work, or using it to make a living with it.. though I could run an ebay store with it.. but, in either case.. this is not my worry.. its your worry since you all need this speed of 2 extra cores which there is still very few precious software that can take advantage of 12 cores let alone 6.. or even 4 for that matter..

When the time comes that all software will need 4 or more cores, then I will consider.. but for now.. MS Office, gaming, etc.. uses maybe if I am lucky 2 cores at best..

The following are known to work with 8 or more cores:

Video rendering software(all apple titles) - completly useless to me.
Audio rendering and creation software(all apple titles) - again, useless to me as I am not a song writer or producer of audio.

Photo related software such as Adobe CS5, etc... - While I do make movies on my computer and have photo albums, the basics are enough for me as I don't need these expensive software packages.

SO there you have it.. not all of us are going to benefit from 8 cores or more though. I know I won't. Its a nice upgrade though, but the B1 stepping isn't on the 2009 at least not yet until someone develops an efi flash utility to flash the firmware of the 2010 over to the 2009.

End of thread.


ANY PROOF?!?!?! I WANT COLD HARD EVIDENCE NOW OR THAT IS COMPLETE BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!

My impression of you ;)

Again, since when do Apple store employees get inside info?!?!?! THEY DON'T! And it seriously is annoying how you always say the same thing to every rumor. Just shut up already, everyone knows what you think.

[keewe]

beside the fact that there is software/part of that that will _never_ run on multiple cores, 2 things: why the hell do u buy a mac pro for office and gaming?! and: it seems you dont know much about you are talking...

[frimple]

Except when using a GPU based renderer, of course. ;)

Tried Octane out a while back. Very cool. I'll stick with my old CPU bound renderers for now, though.

Not that we've got up to date graphics cards to choose from :rolleyes:

If anyone needs render time I'll gladly sell you access to my OC'd 12 core x5650 windoze box. That thing is such a joy to work on :D

[huscat]

12 core 4.4Ghz
12GB DDR3 RAM
120GB Sandforce Boot SSD
2TB Black
GTX 260 Card
2x DVDRW
Gigabit
FW 800

Geekbench 27000
OS X 10.6.4

Need I say more?

[Roman23]

Thats a pretty nice set up!

12GB DDR3 RAM
120GB Sandforce Boot SSD
2TB Black
GTX 260 Card
2x DVDRW
Gigabit
FW 800

Geekbench 27000
OS X 10.6.4

Need I say more?[/QUOTE]

[zaphon]

Here let me add confusion to the mix, I went ahead last Wednesday (10am PDT) and placed an order for 2 2009 Mac Pro's to upgrade my kid's 24" aluminum iMac's. I ordered them both as follows

Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xe
6GB (6X1GB)
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/
One 18x SuperDrive
AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card

So basically added the 4870 video card and the Wi-Fi card to both. Now here's the weird part, they we're both listed as shipping in 3-5 business days, but Friday morning one of the two computers shipped, while the other hasn't shipped at all yet (it hasn't even gone to prepared for shipment). That seems odd, as I would have expected both to come out at roughly the same time. So does this indicate some kind of supply shortage at the actual factory as well (also indicating a possible refresh coming soon), or is it purely coincidence (I've never ordered two at a time before, the other 2 I already have we're ordered separately).

*shrugs*, who knows is probably the best answer, but either way, I wasn't going to play the waiting game, and the 2009's will do plenty fine for my kids (I'm still on a 2008 Mac Pro here, would like a better video card than the 4870 but that's about the only thing I would like to upgrade on my system, as I'm already running on a pair of SSD's)

[Roman23]

You need to call Apple's customer service and ask them why the 2nd one hasn't been shipped. Again, its not due to any refresh, but possibly it could be do to a computer glitch maybe?

Or the warehouse might not have gotten the information as of yet.. again, call Apple and find out.


Here let me add confusion to the mix, I went ahead last Wednesday (10am PDT) and placed an order for 2 2009 Mac Pro's to upgrade my kid's 24" aluminum iMac's. I ordered them both as follows

Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xe
6GB (6X1GB)
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/
One 18x SuperDrive
AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card

So basically added the 4870 video card and the Wi-Fi card to both. Now here's the weird part, they we're both listed as shipping in 3-5 business days, but Friday morning one of the two computers shipped, while the other hasn't shipped at all yet (it hasn't even gone to prepared for shipment). That seems odd, as I would have expected both to come out at roughly the same time. So does this indicate some kind of supply shortage at the actual factory as well (also indicating a possible refresh coming soon), or is it purely coincidence (I've never ordered two at a time before, the other 2 I already have we're ordered separately).

*shrugs*, who knows is probably the best answer, but either way, I wasn't going to play the waiting game, and the 2009's will do plenty fine for my kids (I'm still on a 2008 Mac Pro here, would like a better video card than the 4870 but that's about the only thing I would like to upgrade on my system, as I'm already running on a pair of SSD's)

[zaphon]

You need to call Apple's customer service and ask them why the 2nd one hasn't been shipped. Again, its not due to any refresh, but possibly it could be do to a computer glitch maybe?

Or the warehouse might not have gotten the information as of yet.. again, call Apple and find out.

I will once it gets past the 3-5 business days. I was just saying one of the two I ordered shipped in only 2 business days, Apple has until Wednesday basically to ship the other one in order to meet the 3-5 business days quoted. Than I will call, but as I said, it just seemed odd that one would come out so quickly and the other would be MIA. AKA just trying to add to the speculation I guess. :-)

[strausd]

ISN'T lying.. I showed him these threads and he told me its bull... complete bull and not to worry about it though really why should I? Why do I need to care? Not like I am using my mac pro for industry related work, or using it to make a living with it.. though I could run an ebay store with it.. but, in either case.. this is not my worry.. its your worry since you all need this speed of 2 extra cores which there is still very few precious software that can take advantage of 12 cores let alone 6.. or even 4 for that matter..

When the time comes that all software will need 4 or more cores, then I will consider.. but for now.. MS Office, gaming, etc.. uses maybe if I am lucky 2 cores at best..

The following are known to work with 8 or more cores:

Video rendering software(all apple titles) - completly useless to me.
Audio rendering and creation software(all apple titles) - again, useless to me as I am not a song writer or producer of audio.

Photo related software such as Adobe CS5, etc... - While I do make movies on my computer and have photo albums, the basics are enough for me as I don't need these expensive software packages.

SO there you have it.. not all of us are going to benefit from 8 cores or more though. I know I won't. Its a nice upgrade though, but the B1 stepping isn't on the 2009 at least not yet until someone develops an efi flash utility to flash the firmware of the 2010 over to the 2009.

End of thread.

Sure, most people probably won't benefit from 2 extra cores. However, people who need the power, like myself, for 3D rendering and video work will greatly benefit from the extra cores. Also, I plan on getting a 12-core machine, three times the processing power of a quad-core of the same clock speed. I will be using pro applications that can utilize this power, so it will benefit me and others I am sure.

But yes, you are right thinking that there are many out there who will not need the extra two cores. I, however, am not one to say who needs it and who doesn't.

[revelated]

And stop whining because people are talking about Apple rumors, this is macrumors you know.

Thought that's what the site was :p Maybe it'll pan out, maybe it won't...but I think without individuals sharing what they've heard or seen on the web, most Apple fans would be flying blind. Discouraging that sharing seems...well...like something some old fuddy-duddy would do.

Keep them rumors coming!

[huscat]

12/24 Physical Virtual Core 4.2Ghz
12GB DDR3 RAM
120GB Sandforce Boot SSD
2TB Black
GTX 260 Card
2x DVDRW
Gigabit
FW 800

Geekbench 27000
OS X 10.6.4

$7000

[TennisandMusic]

12/24 Physical Virtual Core 4.2Ghz
12GB DDR3 RAM
120GB Sandforce Boot SSD
2TB Black
GTX 260 Card
2x DVDRW
Gigabit
FW 800

Geekbench 27000
OS X 10.6.4

$7000

Nowhere near that on a hackintosh, which is what that obviously is.

[huscat]

Nowhere near that on a hackintosh, which is what that obviously is.

Nowhere near what?

[Roman23]

everything will be fine.. just call them on Tuesday or Weds and find out the situation with the order.. it probably is something stupid.. but you can call now if you want.. Apple is very helpful with these things. :)


Here let me add confusion to the mix, I went ahead last Wednesday (10am PDT) and placed an order for 2 2009 Mac Pro's to upgrade my kid's 24" aluminum iMac's. I ordered them both as follows

Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xe
6GB (6X1GB)
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/
One 18x SuperDrive
AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card

So basically added the 4870 video card and the Wi-Fi card to both. Now here's the weird part, they we're both listed as shipping in 3-5 business days, but Friday morning one of the two computers shipped, while the other hasn't shipped at all yet (it hasn't even gone to prepared for shipment). That seems odd, as I would have expected both to come out at roughly the same time. So does this indicate some kind of supply shortage at the actual factory as well (also indicating a possible refresh coming soon), or is it purely coincidence (I've never ordered two at a time before, the other 2 I already have we're ordered separately).

*shrugs*, who knows is probably the best answer, but either way, I wasn't going to play the waiting game, and the 2009's will do plenty fine for my kids (I'm still on a 2008 Mac Pro here, would like a better video card than the 4870 but that's about the only thing I would like to upgrade on my system, as I'm already running on a pair of SSD's)

I will once it gets past the 3-5 business days. I was just saying one of the two I ordered shipped in only 2 business days, Apple has until Wednesday basically to ship the other one in order to meet the 3-5 business days quoted. Than I will call, but as I said, it just seemed odd that one would come out so quickly and the other would be MIA. AKA just trying to add to the speculation I guess. :-)

[eponym]

Something is launching tomorrow.

Which product(s), I don't know. But something is. You'll see ;)

[belvdr]

Something is launching tomorrow.

Which product(s), I don't know. But something is. You'll see ;)

Yeah, it's called a sunrise. It launches every day*. :)

* Some locations excluded during certain parts of the year.

[apolloa]

Yeah, it's called a sunrise. It launches every day*. :)

* Some locations excluded during certain parts of the year.

And I suspect we all launch something in the mornings when on the toilet... Too much? Too crude? :D I couldn't resist.

[revelated]

ITS NOT COMING!!

:rolleyes: