PDA

View Full Version : G4 MDD not starting up


Zeke
Nov 8, 2004, 07:56 AM
So this morning I woke my G4 from sleep and check my email. Came back a few minutes later and my screen saver was frozen. So I powered it down and tried to start up again a minute later. No bong, computer powers on but goes into hyperfan mode (that's what it sounds like) with nothing ever happening. Not sure where to start with diagnosis to figure out what's wrong so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Zeke

MacsRgr8
Nov 8, 2004, 08:10 AM
Tried zapping PRAM ?

(hold down <COMMAND> <OPTION> <P> <R> until you hear the startup chime 3 times)

If that doesn't work, try to see if it does boot from the Mac OS X CD.

Zeke
Nov 8, 2004, 03:37 PM
So I tried resetting PRAM but like I expected I got no chimes. I had hopes for starting up off of the OS X CD or hardware test cd but I can't open my stupid CD drive without the computer started up. If anyone knows how to try and start off of something else that'd be great. What are some unplugged or bad connections that could make something like this happen?

Thanks again.

Sun Baked
Nov 8, 2004, 03:42 PM
Check the CPU daughter board, no bong could mean a problem with the CPU.

Of course DLing a Service Manual will get you the diagnostic flowchart for this problem.

MacsRgr8
Nov 8, 2004, 03:46 PM
Unplug all external devices, except keyboard / mouse and monitor.
Also try booting without the keyboard / mouse plugged in.
Remove all third party peripherals too, like PCI cards and 3rd party RAM etc.

Good luck.

mklos
Nov 8, 2004, 06:19 PM
The bong is Apple's little PC POST Beep. If you don't hear it then something has either came loose somehow or something has failed. Here are a few things to try:

1. Reseat the RAM. If that doesn't work then try the #2 suggestion.

2. If you have multiple sticks of RAM, only use the bare minimum possible to boot the Mac. Then switch them out to test and see if the problem comes back. If it does then you have a stick of RAM that went bad on you.

3. Reseat all the power connectors on everything.

4. Reseat all of the IDE connectors

5. Reseat the CPU if possible or check to see if something doesn't look right. The heat sink is probably blocking everything. If its still under warranty then don't mess with the CPU as it will VOID the warranty.

6. Call AppleCare and tell them of the situation if its still under warranty. This is where you'd wish you would of spent the extra $249 for the extended warranty if its not under warranty anymore. :D

Macmaniac
Nov 8, 2004, 06:41 PM
Have you tried pressing the CUDA reset switch on the MLB? That might be another thing to try.

Mechcozmo
Nov 8, 2004, 08:18 PM
Have you tried pressing the CUDA reset switch on the MLB? That might be another thing to try.

Only press it once, BTW.


Hold down the mouse key to force the CD drive to open on start up... but you might not have a normal start up, so, well... yeah.

Can you start into Single-User mode? Hold Command+S on startup.
Or, Verbose mode. (Gives you more info as to what the heck is happening) Hold Command+V on startup.

Zeke
Nov 8, 2004, 09:07 PM
So I tried resetting RAM and using only 1 of each of my sticks no to avail. Unplugged and replugged whatever cables I could find. Tried resetting the CUMA button...still no "bong." Haven't tried anything with the CPU yet. It'd be so nice if there was a way to actually test this. Can't open the CD drive with the mouse button technique. None of the Command-S or Command-V do anything. I would never have expected a power mac to die after 2 years but this sure seems like what it's doing.

Any other ideas?

5300cs
Nov 9, 2004, 07:22 AM
When my MDD wouldn't start up, it was because a HD was put in wrong. I pushed the power button and it flashed briefly then went out again. My G5 also tweaked out the other day.

I unplugged everything but the kb & mouse and booted off a CD (I used a paperclip to get the CD drive open.) Before starting up I opened the case and made sure everything was seated properly. It worked for me for both machines.

Hope this helps...

Zeke
Nov 9, 2004, 09:18 AM
Check the CPU daughter board, no bong could mean a problem with the CPU.

Of course DLing a Service Manual will get you the diagnostic flowchart for this problem.

Do you know where I can download a service manual?

Sun Baked
Nov 9, 2004, 11:45 AM
Do you know where I can download a service manual?It was easier to forward a PM with the link, no bookmarks to search on this computer.

Sun Baked
Nov 9, 2004, 11:59 AM
RAM and Processor Verification: Power-On Self Test

A power-on self test in the computer’s ROM automatically runs whenever the computer is started up after being fully shut down (the test does not run if the computer is only restarted). If the test detects a problem, you will not hear a normal startup chime. Instead, the system will beep as explained below:

• 1 beep: No RAM is installed or detected.
• 2 beeps: Incompatible RAM types are installed.
• 3 beeps: No RAM banks passed memory testing.
• 4 beeps: No good boot images are detected in the boot ROM (and/or there is a bad sys config block).
• 5 beeps: The processor is not usable.

Computer begins to power up, the fan and hard drive are spinning, the power LED is lit, but there is no startup chime or video

1. Reset the logic board. Refer to “Resetting the PMU on the Logic Board” in this chapter.
2. Verify all PCI and AGP cards are seated properly.
3. Reseat the processor module.
4. Replace the processor module.
5. Replace the logic board.

Screen is black, there is no startup chime, and drive does not operate, but fan is running and power LED is lit

1. Check video cable/card connections and connector pins.
2. Reset the logic board:
3. Refer to “Resetting the PMU on the Logic Board” in this chapter.
4. Reseat the video card.
5. Reseat the processor module.
6. Replace the processor module.
7. Replace the logic board.

Zeke
Nov 10, 2004, 08:36 AM
So I've done everything up to reseating the processor module. Not looking good for me. I've read about this happening to a lot of people. This is really sad that Apple's quality has gone down so much of late. It used to be I could explain to people that Macs lasted longer than they were useful but not anymore. I'm hoping that when I call Apple they'll do something nice but I'm sure they won't as their customer service has also gone to crap. They'll just say, "Well, if you'd bought Applecare this would've been covered." to which I say that offering an extended warranty does not entitle you to make crap. I wish I had a spare logic board to test.

On that note, I saw a computer for sale that beeps 3 times at startup. Does this happen if you have 1 bad stick of RAM or if you have more than 1 is it more likely something is wrong with the logic board? Will a bad stick just be ignored? Thanks for everone's help.

jeremy.king
Nov 10, 2004, 09:30 AM
So I've done everything up to reseating the processor module. Not looking good for me. I've read about this happening to a lot of people. This is really sad that Apple's quality has gone down so much of late. It used to be I could explain to people that Macs lasted longer than they were useful but not anymore. I'm hoping that when I call Apple they'll do something nice but I'm sure they won't as their customer service has also gone to crap. They'll just say, "Well, if you'd bought Applecare this would've been covered." to which I say that offering an extended warranty does not entitle you to make crap. I wish I had a spare logic board to test.

On that note, I saw a computer for sale that beeps 3 times at startup. Does this happen if you have 1 bad stick of RAM or if you have more than 1 is it more likely something is wrong with the logic board? Will a bad stick just be ignored? Thanks for everone's help.

I understand that you are frustrated, but the fact of the matter is that any computer can "die." There are a variety of reasons this may have happened, and since you're too cheap to buy applecare or pay to get it repaired, you just flame away. I'm guessing you own a home with no insurance and drive a car uninsured as well :rolleyes: Your criticism of Apple's quality and service is completely unnecessary, and the fact of the matter is that Apple ranks #1 according to American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI) in the personal computer industry.

As for the computer with beeps, you sure its a mac? If its a PC, the beep codes vary by mobo.

Zeke
Nov 10, 2004, 09:41 AM
Actually, I own a home with insurance. Drive with insurance. Have bought Apple computers for a long time and my laptop has Applecare. So it's not that I'm too cheap it's that generally people suggest not buying Applecare for towers because they're better built and have more rugged components. However, looking around online and seeing how many MDD G4's are having the exact same problems as mine this early in the life of the product is unacceptable. If it were completely random that's one thing but when a product starts exhibiting problems this quickly with motherboards (iBook for example) something is terribly wrong. I didn't think I was flaming. I was just stating how I felt about the argument that selling an extended warranty justified making computers that are built with cheaper (yet still somehow very expensive) components.


As for the computer I saw, it's a dual 1.42 MDD. Error beeps generated by macs are 3 beeps meaning none of the RAM banks passed. So I was trying to find out if anyone had experience with multiple DIMMS causing 3 beeps or if that only happens when you have 1 DIMM installed and it goes bad. The guy selling it states he doesn't want to diagnose the problem and if it's only a RAM problem then this would be a good part machine for me. However, if multiple DIMMs cannot cause the 3 beeps unless all DIMMs go bad at the same time, it's more likely the motherboard is the problem and then I'd just have 2 that don't work.


I understand that you are frustrated, but the fact of the matter is that any computer can "die." There are a variety of reasons this may have happened, and since you're too cheap to buy applecare or pay to get it repaired, you just flame away. I'm guessing you own a home with no insurance and drive a car uninsured as well :rolleyes: Your criticism of Apple's quality and service is completely unnecessary, and the fact of the matter is that Apple ranks #1 according to American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI) in the personal computer industry.

As for the computer with beeps, you sure its a mac? If its a PC, the beep codes vary by mobo.

jeremy.king
Nov 10, 2004, 09:54 AM
Well, I would counter with the fact that you aren't going to find too many people bragging how their computer is working just fine and dandy. Mostly, you are going to read about people with problems, so it gives an illusion that everyone is having these problems.

I for one own a MDD 867DP and haven't had a single problem. Going on 3 years now!

Anyways...

This should help with your problem (pretty much what sun baked said)

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95054

This will help with the machine you're looking at

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58442

Are you familiar with Apple's Support website? Very easy to search.

Zeke
Nov 10, 2004, 10:06 AM
Normally I would agree with you, but this forum at dealmac

http://forums.dealmac.com/read.php?1,1974573,1974573

Has 5 other computers this has happened to recently. These people weren't yelling about it and yes I know most of the computers are fine but when so many go bad in so short a time something has to be wrong.

Well, I would counter with the fact that you aren't going to find too many people bragging how their computer is working just fine and dandy. Mostly, you are going to read about people with problems, so it gives an illusion that everyone is having these problems.

I for one own a MDD 867DP and haven't had a single problem. Going on 3 years now!

Anyways...

This should help with your problem (pretty much what sun baked said)

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95054

This will help with the machine you're looking at

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58442

Are you familiar with Apple's Support website? Very easy to search.

jeremy.king
Nov 10, 2004, 10:16 AM
Has 5 other computers this has happened to recently. These people weren't yelling about it and yes I know most of the computers are fine but when so many go bad in so short a time something has to be wrong.

FIVE ?!?!??!?

I would venture to guess that Apple has sold millions of the MDDs...That percentage there is near zero, and I doubt your problem is even remotely as widespread as the iBook problem.

Zeke
Nov 10, 2004, 10:29 AM
I agree that Apple has produced huge numbers of these. But what I was saying was five computers in a span of like a week or two. Also, when you call an Apple repair place without even hearing symptoms they will say it's usually the motherboard that's bad. So obviously, when repair centers are saying the most likely cause of failure is the motherboard the problem is more widespread than 0%.

FIVE ?!?!??!?

I would venture to guess that Apple has sold millions of the MDDs...That percentage there is near zero, and I doubt your problem is even remotely as widespread as the iBook problem.

jeremy.king
Nov 10, 2004, 10:59 AM
I agree that Apple has produced huge numbers of these. But what I was saying was five computers in a span of like a week or two. Also, when you call an Apple repair place without even hearing symptoms they will say it's usually the motherboard that's bad. So obviously, when repair centers are saying the most likely cause of failure is the motherboard the problem is more widespread than 0%.

True. But you are assuming that the motherboard failure is apple's fault due to a lack of quality or poor manufacturing. The reality is that there are so many reasons why a mobo could fail. Brown outs, power surges, bad home electrical systems, poor cooling, etc. All of which could have been cause by the consumer and/or their environment. Perhaps those five people weren't using surge protectors and experienced a power surge? Maybe one of those people exposed it to moisture. The reasons are seemingly endless and *most* are not due to apple and expecting them to fix a problem that may have been potentially caused by the user for free is absurd. Everyone is so quick to blame the company that made the product.

Apple puts a one year warranty on their machines, and when you passed on Applecare, you were taking a calculated gamble that you believed that your machine will never fail during the time you intended to use it. For some, this isn't a big deal, for others like yourself, it seems to be a big deal. The same is true of any electronics manufacturer. There is an acceptable level of product defects that a manufacturer will accept. Expecting 0% failure and holding those high expectations of a company such as Apple will result in pain and suffering - such is the case with you and your computer.

When a car fails past warranty, the owner has to pay for it. You should only expect the same of your computer. Granted car companies DO issue safety recalls (GM more frequently than others), but this is due to liability more than anything else. Last I checked nobody is going to die as a result of a bad mobo, so unless the failures exceeds the acceptable defects, you won't see a massive product fix.

Perhaps you can get at a manager to discuss your situation and try to get it resolved, but I wouldn't expect anyone here to take pity on you because there were preventative measures you could have taken (ie AppleCare) that would have resulted in a happy Zeke.

Zeke
Nov 10, 2004, 07:07 PM
I just wanted to let everyone know I'm typing from my MDD G4 right now. I pulled the processor card and reseated it, reset the PMU and it started back up again (after a few attempts to start and resetting of the PMU). Don't have any idea why this would have happened but there it is. Thanks for everyone's help.