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jeff33702
Jul 16, 2010, 06:34 PM
First of all all the videos relate to the signal attenuation.

And touching the iPhone with one finger doesn't drop all signal. Do you even own the iPhone 4? I'm touching mine right now and it works. He's touching his right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMRzXKGzn0g

Also, if bridging the gap of the antennae meant it's shorting the antennae than that means the phone wouldn't work period regardless of signal strength. The thing you're failing to see is that the metal bands act as the antennae so then THAT would mean that holding the phone, but still not touching the gap, would short the antennae. It's not a hardware design issue. Sorry, buddy :D

You're a little out of touch with reality. What you don't realize is that the phones don't have the problem in ALL areas. And yes, in certian areas, it ABSOLUTELY drops a call and stops all 3G data transmission when a single finger touches the "gap". See my sig to learn a thing or two.



SactoGuy18
Jul 16, 2010, 06:35 PM
The fact Apple will NOT fix the iPhone 4 antenna problem so it works normally without the bumper case and still haven't addressed the proximity sensor problem means Apple may soon be getting a visit from the Federal Trade Commission for deliberately selling what amounts to a blatantly flawed product--especially since these problems may NOT be a software issue.

In short, Jobs' arrogance has just gotten the better of him.

blizaine
Jul 16, 2010, 06:35 PM
I kind of feel bad for Consumer Reports. When apple continues to sell millions of iPhones, everyone will realize that no one cares what consumer reports has to say.

dogie678
Jul 16, 2010, 06:36 PM
The fact Apple will NOT fix the iPhone 4 antenna problem so it works normally without the bumper case and still haven't addressed the proximity sensor problem means Apple may soon be getting a visit from the Federal Trade Commission for deliberately selling what amounts to a blatantly flawed product--especially since these problems may NOT be a software issue.

In short, Jobs' arrogance has just gotten the better of him.

No.

ghostface147
Jul 16, 2010, 06:36 PM
In your face Apple. Hahahahahahaha

gorgeousninja
Jul 16, 2010, 06:36 PM
You don't like it, then don't read it. We have every right to say something isn't working when it isn't. Just because it doesn't happen to you or you're blind to it doesn't mean we can't state what's happening or state how we dislike it. If you love your phone so much, then go enjoy it and leave us to figure out how to fix it.

THEN TAKE IT BACK, GET A DRONE PHONE.... LEAVE......

blizaine
Jul 16, 2010, 06:37 PM
The fact Apple will NOT fix the iPhone 4 antenna problem so it works normally without the bumper case and still haven't addressed the proximity sensor problem means Apple may soon be getting a visit from the Federal Trade Commission for deliberately selling what amounts to a blatantly flawed product--especially since these problems may NOT be a software issue.

In short, Jobs' arrogance has just gotten the better of him.

a flaw'd product like every other product that exhibits the same behavior?

sslanchi
Jul 16, 2010, 06:37 PM
Ever since the iphone 4 came out this website sucks.

Cant even comment on a news story without being insulted and having five people demand I return my phone. All of you can go fuuck yourselves

JayLenochiniMac
Jul 16, 2010, 06:38 PM
The phone has a defect. Apple have conceded this by allowing you to have bumpers for free.

No, they're giving them away to make the few unsatisfied users happy because they "want to make all [their] users happy," not that it's defective.


I wanted to get the iPhone on release day, but I decided to wait, and now I am considering leaving it until the iPhone 4S (or whatever), not because of one site, but because of the amount of people saying they have problems.

Based on less than 1% of users according to hard data?

killertoast6
Jul 16, 2010, 06:38 PM
I think there could be a good chance Apple is re-working the internals to go back to the old antenna style, while leaving the metal bands, and not saying a word. Then, everyone's happy.

Well the whole internal antenna deal is all due to Stevie Jobs. His engineers warned him specifically about this problem, but he liked the design so much that he decided no changes were necessary.

dm2
Jul 16, 2010, 06:38 PM
Exactly. Whoever is ok with accepting this as a fix for apples flaw is completely stupid. Guess people don't mind a ****** rig fix (aka bumper) for their phone. Yea I said it.

well, so I'm stupid, amen.
Yea I said it too

stonemann
Jul 16, 2010, 06:40 PM
To be consistent, Consumer Reports should go back and re-check all current smartphones to see if they have the same issue. Any smartphone which shows a reduced signal should be marked out as "not recommended". Starting with the phones which Steve Jobs demoed with this fault during his presentation.

NoExpectations
Jul 16, 2010, 06:41 PM
If you look at the video and 'parse' the words, I think there will be a long term solution on or around September 30th. That's probably when they will sell iPhone 4.1....with some sort of special clear coating around the frame that will prevent direct skin contact.

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 06:41 PM
I don't listen to them either. All they do is work to find minor flaws and then blow them way out of proportion. They aren't smart enough build things them selfs so they try to deface those who create awesomeness! I LOVE my iPhone 4 and that makes me right and them wrong.:p http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/07/16/172255-consumer_reports_banner.jpg

Consumer Reports, the prominent ratings and reviews magazine, is still declining to recommend (http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/07/apple-iphone-4-iphone4-free-bumpers-for-antenna-problem-signal-loss-issue-flaw-press-conference-news-consumer-reports-ratings.html) the iPhone 4 following Apple's offer of free cases (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/apple-to-offer-free-cases-for-iphone-4-customers/) for all iPhone 4 customers through September 30th. The magazine touched off a firestorm in the mainstream media earlier this week by not recommending (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-cant-recommend-iphone-4-due-to-signal-issues/) Apple's iPhone 4 due to antenna issues despite the device topping its rankings of smartphones. The uproar lead to today's press conference at Apple's headquarters where the company addressed the antenna issues and made its offer of free cases for users.

Article Link: Consumer Reports Still Not Recommending iPhone 4 (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/)

JayLenochiniMac
Jul 16, 2010, 06:42 PM
I agree that the number of affected users might be blown out of proportion (not according to Apple's figures though), but for the ones that have the issue, it's a big deal.

Yes, they should return them for working ones, as some have had success in doing so. Otherwise, place the blame on poor at&t reception (or amend the situation by using a bumper). Sucks, I know, but many individuals have had to return the original iPhone because at&t wasn't good enough in their areas.

iSamurai
Jul 16, 2010, 06:42 PM
well yeah, when you buy an iphone and to get it work properly you need to get a bumper as well.

also, why did they start making bumpers an official accessory on launch with the iphone4? what a band aid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WozzaX http://forums.macrumors.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=10564136#post10564136)
I cannot believe some of Delusional post on this forum.

CR is standing up for consumers, and obviously after some media attention as well, but it is making a stand.
If your microwave at home could only be set to 10 minute intervals and not single minutes would you buy it? Would you recommend it?

I bet if the iPhone 5 came out and couldnt go online in GPRS mode the fanboys on here would still love the phone and slate anyone like CR for saying they cant recommend it.

Get a grip.

The phone has a defect. Apple have conceded this by allowing you to have bumpers for free.


pretty much sums up there.

jeff33702
Jul 16, 2010, 06:43 PM
Ever since the iphone 4 came out this website sucks.

Cant even comment on a news story without being insulted and having five people demand I return my phone. All of you can go fuuck yourselves

^^ I like this guy.

rcandre2
Jul 16, 2010, 06:43 PM
Good for Consumer Reports. The bumper is nothing but a band-aid. I don't/didn't need a bumper or a case for my 3GS, 3G, 2G. Why for the iPhone 4?

Exactly! At least I'm not the only one who's refusing to be brainwashed by steve!

inlovewithi
Jul 16, 2010, 06:44 PM
The only reason why Consumer Report is not recommending it is because they are lazy, and uninnovating.

dijisurf
Jul 16, 2010, 06:46 PM
iphone works fine for 99.45% of the users.
if yours is broken go and get it changed. or get a bumper or take it back for a full refund.
what else you want? There is not another option left to do in a biz transaction as human interaction has evolved over the few thousand years, other than what apple is offering you.

powers74
Jul 16, 2010, 06:46 PM
What is Consumer Reports?

smarch
Jul 16, 2010, 06:47 PM
Exactly! At least I'm not the only one who's refusing to be brainwashed by steve!

Refusing to be brainwashed = you're being brainwashed by somebody else.

valkraider
Jul 16, 2010, 06:48 PM
2,983,500 iPhone 4 owners still not recommending Consumer Reports

WozzaX
Jul 16, 2010, 06:51 PM
I kind of feel bad for Consumer Reports. When apple continues to sell millions of iPhones, everyone will realize that no one cares what consumer reports has to say.

A bit like you then?

People will continue to listen to CR and not care what you have to say.

Same mentality.

CR have an opinion based on fact. They dont want to recommend a faulty device. A small fault which affects people based on location is still a fault.

Have you ever know something has a fault, be it big or small and still recommended it to a friend or family?

ChromeAce
Jul 16, 2010, 06:52 PM
If Steve's little dog and pony show of cherry-picked statistics and a bumper case can stave off a recall costing hundreds of millions of dollars, then of course it's in Apple's interest to try.

I'm an Apple fanboy, Steve Jobs is my guru, and I love my iPhone 4. I'm not giving it up and I'm not hiding its elegant design inside an ugly piece of rubber.

I also just bought a new Toyota, a company which didn't have a masterfully communicative CEO to talk everyone out of recalls, even in the absence of any data whatsoever that there was a problem. To this day, Toyota never found a problem.

People freak out easily and the press fans the flames to get attention. This crap has been going on for a while now.

Recalls are typically done for safety issues, or when a product simply fails rather completely in a key area. A small loss of signal strength is not recall-worthy.

I subscribe to Consumer Reports. I trust them. They are nonprofit and they go out of their way to be unbiased. They don't recommend the iPhone 4 at this time. I have no problem with that. I need them to be conservative in their recommendations to balance against the hype coming out of company promotions of products. They rated the Jeep Wrangler at the bottom of their list and I bought one anyway and loved it. They were right, it was a horrible car in almost every way. But I still loved it.

I respect Apple. I trust Consumer Reports. And I love my iPhone 4, bar none. Well, maybe not bar none. I'll settle for at least one bar.

So as my Toyota blindly accelerates me to my doom as I death-grip my iPhone 4 and I lose the call with AppleCare in my last seconds of life, I just want everyone to know that I died happy.

rcandre2
Jul 16, 2010, 06:53 PM
Refusing to be brainwashed = you're being brainwashed by somebody else.

Nope. Just speaking on behalf of my own experiences. My last three models of iPhones never had this problem. Go drink some more stevejuice.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 06:53 PM
And touching the iPhone with one finger doesn't drop all signal. Do you even own the iPhone 4? I'm touching mine right now and it works.

"touching the iphone with one finger doesn't drop all signal" is not a true statement. Perhaps it doesn't for you, but it did for me.

Npstewart87
Jul 16, 2010, 06:54 PM
Its amazing how consumer reports never picked up on any of the other glitches. I think this will tarnish their record as a fair product review publisher. The only reason why they review the iphone problem is because of the publicity it was getting, they saw an opportunity to jump on the ban wagon, and get publicity themselves to be seen as a up to date magazine. They should review every product including all smartphones the same way rather then singling one out. They should retract their comments about the iphone.

ppnkg
Jul 16, 2010, 06:54 PM
Why should Consumer Reports change their stance..... Apple didn't fix shiate.....iPhone is still s*h*i*t*t*y for people who have the problem, glad mine works flawlessly. No dropped calls yet :apple:

Do you realise how utterly moronic your comment is?

zacman
Jul 16, 2010, 06:55 PM
a flaw'd product like every other product that exhibits the same behavior?

Which other phone loses 20dB when you hold it in your hand?

SirHaakon
Jul 16, 2010, 06:56 PM
Thank god someone out there has the balls to stand up for something when it doesn't work as it should. My respect for Consumer Reports just went way up.

rcandre2
Jul 16, 2010, 06:56 PM
If Steve's little dog and pony show of cherry-picked statistics and a bumper case can stave off a recall costing hundreds of millions of dollars, then of course it's in Apple's interest to try.

I'm an Apple fanboy, Steve Jobs is my guru, and I love my iPhone 4. I'm not giving it up and I'm not hiding its elegant design inside an ugly piece of rubber.

I also just bought a new Toyota, a company which didn't have a masterfully communicative CEO to talk everyone out of recalls, even in the absence of any data whatsoever that there was a problem. To this day, Toyota never found a problem.

People freak out easily and the press fans the flames to get attention. This crap has been going on for a while now.

Recalls are typically done for safety issues, or when a product simply fails rather completely in a key area. A small loss of signal strength is not recall-worthy.

I subscribe to Consumer Reports. I trust them. They are nonprofit and they go out of their way to be unbiased. They don't recommend the iPhone 4 at this time. I have no problem with that. I need them to be conservative in their recommendations to balance against the hype coming out of company promotions of products. They rated the Jeep Wrangler at the bottom of their list and I bought one anyway and loved it. They were right, it was a horrible car in almost every way. But I still loved it.

I respect Apple. I trust Consumer Reports. And I love my iPhone 4, bar none. Well, maybe not bar none. I'll settle for at least one.

So as my Toyota blindly accelerates me to my doom as I death-grip my iPhone 4 and I lose the call wih grandma in my last seconds of life, I just want everyone to know that I died happy.

Hey partner! Well I don't own a Toyota but as far as the rest of your post goes I agree with you.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 06:56 PM
Do you realise how utterly moronic your comment is?

I fail to see why his/her comment was so moronic. Please explain.

ppdix
Jul 16, 2010, 06:57 PM
F**kers probably got paid by Android. :rolleyes:
I don't have any issues with signal... And I haven't had a dropped call since I got my iPhone 4...

Now, the proximity sensor problem really annoys me...:mad:

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:00 PM
F**kers probably got paid by Android. :rolleyes:
I don't have any issues with signal... And I haven't had a dropped call since I got my iPhone 4...

Now, the proximity sensor problem really annoys me...:mad:

There is no issue with the proximity sensor, your cheeks are too chubby. Go get some plastic surgery and that will resolve the issue. :rolleyes:

dm2
Jul 16, 2010, 07:00 PM
Second, show me one of these videos where touching, with ONE FINGER, the entire phone drops all signal and calls cease to function, as well as stopping data transfers?

as somebody noticed, if you put ONE FINGER between TV and your remote
nothing will work, don't put your finger to the week spot, that's all

even worse, put only 1 finger into someone eye, that someone will lose his/her eye :eek:

there are many amazing things that ONE FINGER can do :rolleyes:

Kwill
Jul 16, 2010, 07:00 PM
Perhaps Apple should offer duct tape as one of the case remedies to appease Consumer Reports.

lilo777
Jul 16, 2010, 07:01 PM
Which other phone loses 20dB when you hold it in your hand?

BTW, now we know why Apple decided to "re-calibrate" signal bar (as if they did not know how they worked before). They needed it to look better in terms of dropped bars compared to other phones during today's dog and pony show :D

simulacra
Jul 16, 2010, 07:01 PM
Am I the only one that is getting REALLY tired with all the blind fanboys that spew nothing but garbage? Most forums are ok with people stating their opinion but just look at those youtube comments!
I dont really get the binarity of their statements, if I dislike a product I can usualy find a couple of good points about it.

The thing is, NO-ONE would use the same language and have the same anger about it if the where debating face to face, so why do it online?

Maybe it's time to enforce personal responsibility online to mellow stuff out, imagine a troll free internet because ppl would be personally accountable for what they do.

bbydon
Jul 16, 2010, 07:03 PM
I hate when people come to a Mac forum and complain about Mac fanboys. It's a bit ridiculous.

meatballs
Jul 16, 2010, 07:04 PM
Apple is investing 100million dollar for echiong chambers and mess the iphone4 up? Come on CR, Apple is not stupid!

Yes, they obviously are.

Apple would never bring a phone to the market if there where an issue, i think the main problem is that like jobs said x-marks the spot. and every tech blog crys.

Yes, obviously did.

Did anyone catch Jobs slip up during the PC, that part about them not sitting on their asses for 3 months. I bet if one could access their bumper order, one would find that it was placed 2 months prior to launch.

John.B
Jul 16, 2010, 07:04 PM
How ironic...

I'm still not recommending Consumer Reports! :D

zacman
Jul 16, 2010, 07:04 PM
BTW, now we know why Apple decided to "re-calibrate" signal bar (as if they did not know how they worked before). They needed it to look better in terms of dropped bars compared to other phones during today's dog and pony show :D

Actually the funny thing is that Jobs was asked why they "fixed" the wrong bar algorithm again after it has already been "fixed" when the 3GS was introduced (the "fix" was that more bars were being displayed....). Jobs answered that he can't remember what the 3GS bar fix was.... Yeah sure. :D

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:05 PM
I hate when people come to a Mac forum and complain about Mac fanboys. It's a bit ridiculous.

It's a mac forum, not a mac fanboy forum. :rolleyes:

Object-X
Jul 16, 2010, 07:05 PM
Good for Consumer Reports. The bumper is nothing but a band-aid. I don't/didn't need a bumper or a case for my 3GS, 3G, 2G. Why for the iPhone 4?

I think Apple's point is that you don't need one for the iPhone 4 either, but if a bumper makes you feel better they will give you one. I get the impression that Apple thinks the whole affair is BS an overblown. They made a trade off for better performance and they are sticking by it.

RickieVz
Jul 16, 2010, 07:06 PM
After being a 5 year subscriber to Consumer Report I have cancelled my subscription. The lady asked me why, and I told her because of the stupid report you guys did regarding the iPhone 4 without having data and not knowing that other smartphone has the same problem.

She told me I wasn't the first to cancel.

simulacra
Jul 16, 2010, 07:07 PM
You are a dumb *******, and yes I would be just as angry looking at your stupid face.

What did I say to deserve that?

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:07 PM
You are a dumb *******, and yes I would be just as angry looking at your stupid face.

Mature comment! Hopefully your babysitter didn't catch that or you might be put in timeout.

bbydon
Jul 16, 2010, 07:07 PM
It's a mac forum, not a mac fanboy forum. :rolleyes:

I can dream can't I.

cramzy
Jul 16, 2010, 07:08 PM
as somebody noticed, if you put ONE FINGER between TV and your remote
nothing will work, don't put your finger to the week spot, that's all

even worse, put only 1 finger into someone eye, that someone will lose his/her eye :eek:

there are many amazing things that ONE FINGER can do :rolleyes:

Up:D

zacman
Jul 16, 2010, 07:09 PM
I told her because of the stupid report you guys did regarding the iPhone 4 without having data and not knowing that other smartphone has the same problem.


Which other smartphones out there lose 20dB when you hold it in your hand? And which other smartphone out there even loses over 10dB by just having it in your open palm?

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:09 PM
I can dream can't I.

Confirmed: Dreaming is allowed on this forum ;)

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 07:13 PM
agreeThe only reason why Consumer Report is not recommending it is because they are lazy, and uninnovating.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:13 PM
After being a 5 year subscriber to Consumer Report I have cancelled my subscription. The lady asked me why, and I told her because of the stupid report you guys did regarding the iPhone 4 without having data and not knowing that other smartphone has the same problem.

She told me I wasn't the first to cancel.

If your phone lost reception when you touched the 'sweet spot' with one finger, and dropped a call in under 10 seconds, would you still be upset with Consumer Reports? That's exactly the problem I had before returning my phone.

I don't understand why everyone is so upset with CR. I'm a consumer, I have the issue, and they attempted to reproduce it because the "issue" exploded in the media. They were able to reproduce it and although they give it excellent marks in nearly all categories, they can't recommend it because there is a major design issue, even if it is only affecting a small number of people.

Why is that so wrong? It's not like Consumer Reports doesn't provide their entire review. Readers can decide for themselves.

johnqh
Jul 16, 2010, 07:14 PM
Which other smartphones out there lose 20dB when you hold it in your hand? And which other smartphone out there even loses over 10dB by just having it in your open palm?

How about the other phones Apple shows at the PC?

Fluffy Bunny
Jul 16, 2010, 07:15 PM
Why should CR recommend iPhone 4 just because Job's provided a band-aid to "fix" a shotgun wound? I left Apple for Android and I am happy about it. But my phone has problems of it's own. I think it's a shame to cover up the design of a 4 with a rubber band, but I would do it. Jobs is not going to do anything more. He is one stubborn bastard, one super rich bastard. Good for him.

Bottom line, I will continue to say the iphone sucks and you will continue to say android sucks. We need to vent our anger somehow. Life goes on.

P.S. As Mel Gibson would say, Chuck Schumer can blow me first. The market will determine any punishment, the government can F off!

alectheking
Jul 16, 2010, 07:15 PM
Actually the funny thing is that Jobs was asked why they "fixed" the wrong bar algorithm again after it has already been "fixed" when the 3GS was introduced (the "fix" was that more bars were being displayed....). Jobs answered that he can't remember what the 3GS bar fix was.... Yeah sure. :D

http://www.randomprocess.ca/2008/10/01/iphone-3gs-misleading-signal-display/

Looks like they changed it to show more bars, and now back to the old crap.

Krizoitz
Jul 16, 2010, 07:16 PM
I love how all the Apple fanboys are coming out and saying that Consumer Reports sucks, etc., when before this Consumer Reports was used to recommend the iPhone

Lets take a look shall we. Consumer Reports is saying the iPhone 4 is not recommended despite:

1) Rating it the highest of ALL smartphones. Ever.
2) Not comparing the supposed flaw to behavior on other phones it DOES recommend

No matter who you are, when you screw up something that obviously of course people are going to stop trusting you.

Despite the fact that there is ample evidence and facts that demonstrate that the iPhone 4 behavior is in line with other phones Consumer Reports is essentially ignoring the laws of physics and not recommending the phone based on the dB level reading. That last part is particularly important. They are not calling it in to question because its actual performance has measureable dropped, they are calling it into question because one number they measure has dropped. So the iPhone could actually have better reception, even with weaker signal (Anandtech actually concludes this from their tests) and yet CR thinks its flawed. What does that say about you as a company that you can't recomend the highest rated smartphone on the planet that performs as well or better than its predecessor?

Apple isn't offering the bumber as a "fix" they are offering it as a way to appease the angry mob who have been goaded into a frenzy by outlets like Consumer Reports who did not follow good investigative procedure and do their due dilligence before reporting on the issue, like Apple did.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:16 PM
Up:D

Every time I hit the 9 key on the remote, it loses connection to the television. That is a more realistic comparison.

But it's cool, I can just hit 8 and then channel up so I have a valid workaround and anyone that complains about this issue is just being petty!

mstrmac
Jul 16, 2010, 07:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4&feature=player_embedded

Eddyisgreat
Jul 16, 2010, 07:18 PM
I never really listened to consumer reports, maybe for the odd car review when I was bored, but that was it. Now I know why.

iPhone 4 rated highest out of any smartphone (on their tests), yet they *won't* recommend it, like that really means anything :rolleyes:. Don't make a lick of sense.

brent.carroll
Jul 16, 2010, 07:19 PM
I never called AppleCare. I hoped the issue would resolve itself and I trusted you.

That fact was used against me today.

Now the number is .55000003%

Check again in a week or two, Steve.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:19 PM
Lets take a look shall we. Consumer Reports is saying the iPhone 4 is not recommended despite:

1) Rating it the highest of ALL smartphones. Ever.
2) Not comparing the supposed flaw to behavior on other phones it DOES recommend

No matter who you are, when you screw up something that obviously of course people are going to stop trusting you.

Despite the fact that there is ample evidence and facts that demonstrate that the iPhone 4 behavior is in line with other phones Consumer Reports is essentially ignoring the laws of physics and not recommending the phone based on the dB level reading.

Consumer Reports tested it against the Iphone3GS, but that doesn't count?

Also, just because other phones have a drop in bars, doesn't mean they drop calls and data transmission which is exactly what the Iphone 4 does. And it does this immediately upon touching the antenna separator. I know this because I had the issue.

And I bet you don't have any issues which is why you can't understand their findings.

CR is a big business, not some little website that is just trying to make a name for itself.

radster360
Jul 16, 2010, 07:20 PM
Consumer Reports! Thanks. Maybe your act might have put pressure on Apple and Steve to come out and educate all of us about this Antennagate! I am an iPhone 4 customer and I do have this reception problem, but I am still an happy customer. Yes, I am happy that they are offering free bumpers to provide the fix. Yes, I would have eventually gotten a case, just to protect my phone. Yes, just like everyone who are whining here, I am happy to have free stuff. Given that, I think you achieved something for me and I really don't care if you recommend iPhone 4 or not. I am a happy iPhone 4 customer who is $30 richer as I don't have to spend that money to buy me a bumper. So Thank You CR!

Though what you have just done in the process is disservice all those other smart phone manufacturers. What you have done is now added an additional classification on how you will have to test all the smart phone going forward and maybe revisit the earlier ones. You will have to put all those phone in same level of scrutiny and test their receptions and antennas to do "Apple" to "Apple" comparisons. No pun intended!

Secondly, what also happened here is that Steve brought out issues with our FCC regulations and stupid constrains they put on device manufacturers. The requirement of the antenna placement. The whole radiation issue with cell phone is just overblown and not even proven. He also points out the issue with local governments on placing cell phone towers. Folks! Would you rather have those telephone poles with wires coming into you home above the ground (I know we no longer do that, but you get the jist of my point)

It is time to get off Apple's back and get on the back of your local representative and get them to fix the system. I wonder if Korea who is the most wireless and internet connected country have to deal with such stupid government regulations!

WilliamLondon
Jul 16, 2010, 07:20 PM
Look at all those angry fanboys.

Writing this from my iPhone.

Exactly who would these "fanboys" be? Seems to me they are anyone but *you* but someone who doesn't hate Apple? Or just anyone but you? Stop with the stupid and juvenile labels.

Consumer Reports - hmmmm, yeah, I'd be so glad to be a subscriber and find out 1 day after they printed and published that their conclusion was flawed. Hmmmmm. Yeah, that'd make me think they were accurate in their reporting for all time. :confused:

lilo777
Jul 16, 2010, 07:20 PM
as somebody noticed, if you put ONE FINGER between TV and your remote
nothing will work, don't put your finger to the week spot, that's all

even worse, put only 1 finger into someone eye, that someone will lose his/her eye :eek:

there are many amazing things that ONE FINGER can do :rolleyes:

Sorry, but it's not a finger to finger comparison. Try disabling any other phone (but iPhone 4) by touching it with one finger. :D

gorgeousninja
Jul 16, 2010, 07:21 PM
Am I the only one that is getting REALLY tired with all the blind fanboys that spew nothing but garbage? Most forums are ok with people stating their opinion but just look at those youtube comments!
I dont really get the binarity of their statements, if I dislike a product I can usualy find a couple of good points about it.

The thing is, NO-ONE would use the same language and have the same anger about it if the where debating face to face, so why do it online?

Maybe it's time to enforce personal responsibility online to mellow stuff out, imagine a troll free internet because ppl would be personally accountable for what they do.

While many would agree with your sentiments, why is it only the mythical 'fanboys' who are spewing garbage? People have been whinging on these forums for weeks now who, when questioned, have never even used the iPhone let alone actually own one. Is that not garbage too? You can't have it that everyone who attacks Apple is right, while all of us who are extremely happy, are fools. Can you not see that, or are you as blinded as you say we are?

zacman
Jul 16, 2010, 07:22 PM
How about the other phones Apple shows at the PC?

They don't lose 20dB. Bars ARE not dB. And Apple didn't provide any dB numbers but just bars. For example the worst you can get out of the currently shipping Android devices is -17.7dB by cupping the phone very tightly and holding it completely unnaturally.

Just for comparison:

Holding the phone naturally:
iPhone 3GS: -1.9 dB
iPhone 4: -19.8 dB

On an Open Palm:
iPhone 3GS: -0.2 dB
iPhone 4: -9.2 (!)

With a case or bumper:
iPhone 3GS: -3.2dB
iPhone 4: -7.2dB

Keep also in mind that dB are not linear but logarithmic.

GL2
Jul 16, 2010, 07:23 PM
go figure, I never listen to consumer reports anyway......grandma's and 50+ yr olds do.

I'm well under that age, and I've been subscribing to them for years. They're a great resource when buying just about anything.

cloakedpegasus
Jul 16, 2010, 07:23 PM
At first when I joined this site I figured that the majority of people were just like me, excited about products that fit our needs. However in this turn of events with the Iphone 4 as the protagonist, I'm amazed at how a corporation has managed to effectively put a positive spin on a problem so obvious. More amazing is how anyone can believe ANY corporation and take their word as the ultimate truth. Sure, it's your money. I guess it's no wonder why corporations consistently take advantage of consumers and get away with it. Either consumers like yourselves are ignorant, or in this case are brainwashed into believing that their **** doesn't stink.

50548
Jul 16, 2010, 07:24 PM
It's a mac forum, not a mac fanboy forum. :rolleyes:

So may all Windows/Android users please step forward and leave? :rolleyes:

iphonetester
Jul 16, 2010, 07:27 PM
+1

The case is a horrible fix. I have an invisible shield on my iPhone4 and don't want anything more. Hardware must be changed. Obviously Apple has something planned for after September 30th (minor hardware change to insulate the sides), so this is intended as a temporary fix, but why bother if its such a crap fix. And really... not offering refunds to people who purchased third-party cases? SJ just bit***d about Gizmodo during the Q/A, lame. Heh, funny that it didn't solve much between Consumer Reports and Apple though. Interesting to see the next step.

Not a horrible fix - you are holding the phone wrong - the black mark on the band tells you where not to squeeze the phone. You may dislike Steve, but he was honest and I dare you to find any other tech CEO that will come out and show the problem with their device. He explained the issue. Apple is being upfront about as compared to other makers like HTC.

dm2
Jul 16, 2010, 07:27 PM
Sorry, but it's not a finger to finger comparison. Try disabling any other phone (but iPhone 4) by touching it with one finger. :D

seriously
1. Apple admitted, that problem exists
2. they marked spot that you should avoid to touch (like Nokia does)
3. if you don't like it return the phone
I can't get it, really
again
IF SOMEBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH A DAMNED PHONE, JUST RETURN IT
30 days is a fair amount of time to make a decision.
:confused:

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:27 PM
So may all Windows/Android users please step forward and leave? :rolleyes:

Not stepping forward yet -- but I did return my iphone and we'll have to see how things go. I got a lot of research to do since I've not read a single thing on android since I've been so happy with Apple/iphone for the past 3 years.

I'm not a hater, I'll come back when they release a new phone that works in my house when I hold it comfortably. :)

Salacion
Jul 16, 2010, 07:28 PM
I very much dislike employing the word "fanboy" for it's connotative resonance, but you people are forcing me to use it.

This thread tops them all; never have I seen such a prevalent flock of fanboys. What obliges you to injudiciously disregarding the words of a credible source? I know; your undying commitment to Apple.

If Apple intends to fix the antenna, then can't we conclude it's defective? If we can conclude this, then we can definitively conclude free cases as not being an effective solution. Because of this, I can safely say that I concur with CR continuing to not recommend the iPhone.

Branskins
Jul 16, 2010, 07:29 PM
I wonder if the CR iPhone 4 reviewer still uses the phone to this day. Would be very funny!

wreckshop
Jul 16, 2010, 07:29 PM
A question: Have they tested the nokia n97, the BB 9700 or the N1?

I dare them to recommend ANY of the above phones and say blatant lies that they are better in reception than the iphone.:confused:

N1 has better reception than ip4 in san francisco, thats for sure!

ScooterLibby
Jul 16, 2010, 07:30 PM
Do people still pay attention to Consumer Reports? I used to subscribe a long time ago but got fed up with the totally passionless way they review their products--especially cars where passion is a prime factor in buying a car for many of us. But they do that with everything and although objectivity is an important factor, it is not the only factor.

As a fan of science, I kind of like dispassionate analysis.

Kintheory
Jul 16, 2010, 07:30 PM
This is classic, Amen!!!

Classic stupidity. Why would I trust the idiots who knowingly put out a defective phone? Man, the fanboys are out in full force defending the brand today. Can't wait to see all the ads mocking the iPhone. The shine is off the Apple.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:30 PM
seriously
1. Apple admitted, that problem exists
2. they marked spot that you should avoid to touch (like Nokia does)
3. if you don't like it return the phone
I can't get it, really
again
IF SOMEBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH A DAMNED PHONE, JUST RETURN IT
30 days is a fair amount of time to make a decision.
:confused:

I returned mine -- So are you saying I should no longer post about it? :(

What will I do with my free time??

All in fun -- It's Friday!

iphonetester
Jul 16, 2010, 07:30 PM
At first when I joined this site I figured that the majority of people were just like me, excited about products that fit our needs. However in this turn of events with the Iphone 4 as the protagonist, I'm amazed at how a corporation has managed to effectively put a positive spin on a problem so obvious. More amazing is how anyone can believe ANY corporation and take their word as the ultimate truth. Sure, it's your money. I guess it's no wonder why corporations consistently take advantage of consumers and get away with it. Either consumers like yourselves are ignorant, or in this case are brainwashed into believing that their **** doesn't stink.

No one is brainwashing you - you do not like IP4 you go return it and buy any other phone that works for you. Apple was not planning this presser. They did it to explain to all the whiners that is a non-issue. It it is an issue for you just do not stick with Apple. I do not take Apple's word as an ultimate truth, I take what they show me and decide for myself. I personally had a theory about the reception way before this presser. Steve just confirmed it with facts.

iphonetester
Jul 16, 2010, 07:31 PM
I returned mine -- So are you saying I should no longer post about it? :(

What will I do with my free time??

All in fun -- It's Friday!

Good for you! One less Iphone hater

Darkroom
Jul 16, 2010, 07:32 PM
why is this front page news? how is this news at all? apple didn't fix the problem. if consumer reports suddenly recommended the iPhone because they now offer a free case, their credibility would be as much as a joke as apple's

the sheer amount of illogical posts here unfortunately represents the mindset of the typical apple fan these days. how times have changed.

socrammtz
Jul 16, 2010, 07:32 PM
I just lost faith in Consumer Reports. Apple rocks!

iphonetester
Jul 16, 2010, 07:32 PM
N1 has better reception than ip4 in san francisco, thats for sure!

Simply not true - depends on the area!

dm2
Jul 16, 2010, 07:33 PM
So may all Windows/Android users please step forward and leave? :rolleyes:

what's the hell?:mad:
sir, you're racist :):):)

thejakill
Jul 16, 2010, 07:33 PM
Consumer Reports sure is milking the free publicity from this thing, aren't they?

richman555
Jul 16, 2010, 07:34 PM
I believe Apple has done the right thing. The device isn't defective. I actually believe Apple will come out of this looking better now. The iPhone 4 with a bumper/case is still the best smart phone on the market.

digiguy23
Jul 16, 2010, 07:35 PM
I bought a VCR based on Consumer Reports and it failed a week later. Never read their publication again.

dm2
Jul 16, 2010, 07:35 PM
I returned mine -- So are you saying I should no longer post about it? :(

What will I do with my free time??

All in fun -- It's Friday!

did I say you should no longer post about it?
no I didn't, you have my permission to continue to post :)

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:36 PM
I very much dislike employing the word "fanboy" for it's connotative resonance, but you people are forcing me to use it.

This thread tops them all; never have I seen such a prevalent flock of fanboys. What obliges you to injudiciously disregarding the words of a credible source? I know; your undying commitment to Apple.

If Apple intends to fix the antenna, then can't we conclude it's defective? If we can conclude this, then we can definitively conclude free cases as not being an effective solution. Because of this, I can safely say that I concur with CR continuing to not recommend the iPhone.

Fanboy shades have been applied, so here we go:

- If I don't have the issue, no one has the issue. Even though there are tons of people on here with issues, they all have a hidden agenda and are liars!

- Every smart phone drops bars when you hold it a certain way -- Sure, they don't drop calls and reception, but we don't care about that. Didn't you see the Press Conference? Steve only showed bars, so that's all that matters.

- CR should have tested all phones -- Because testing the 3GS and the iphone 4, and only having dropped calls and bad reception on the 4 is not a good enough test. Sure the 3GS was better in certain situations where the 4 fails, but we only want to compare it to other inferior smart phones.

wreckshop
Jul 16, 2010, 07:36 PM
the sheer amount of illogical posts here unfortunately represents the mindset of the typical apple fan these days. how times have changed.

Well duh. The funny thing is that there are all the people complaining about people complaining about their reception problems.

If ur phone works just fine, why dont u guys shut up and let the people who dont have working phones get their issues resolved? Does their complaining hurt u somehow? Does their complaining make ur phone work any less?

Because of these people complaining everyone gets a free case or bumper, and I bet all u people who said "no my phone works just fine" are like ooh I want a free case or bumper too :rolleyes:

iphonetester
Jul 16, 2010, 07:36 PM
why is this front page news? how is this news at all? apple didn't fix the problem. if consumer reports suddenly recommended the iPhone because they now offer a free case, their credibility would be as much as a joke as apple's

the sheer amount of illogical posts here unfortunately represents the mindset of the typical apple fan these days. how times have changed.

THIS IS NON-ISSUE - I am not sure how else to explain this! If what Steve says does not make sense to you, you should stop using smart phones all together. Any possible redesign will be faced with the same fact - any phone antenna attenuates when you come in touch with it. If it will be fully isolated inside the phone, it will not receive any signal hence you will not be able to call at all. So the trade-off is to put it close to the surface of the phone. But then you grip and loose bars. There is no way around it. End of story.

GL2
Jul 16, 2010, 07:37 PM
If you want a fix then you need to change physics. Have fun.

Why not just change engineering? That's probably a whole lot easier.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:37 PM
Good for you! One less Iphone hater

I don't hate the iphone, and I don't ever recall saying that.... Hey, I got this new game I want to market.. it's called "Jump to conclusions"....

You see, it's this mat with a bunch of conclusions on it.......

meatballs
Jul 16, 2010, 07:37 PM
2. they marked spot that you should avoid to touch (like Nokia does)


Well, they forgot to tell the world that on launch day...

ldkaplan
Jul 16, 2010, 07:38 PM
I believe Apple has done the right thing. The device isn't defective. I actually believe Apple will come out of this looking better now. The iPhone 4 with a bumper/case is still the best smart phone on the market.

Bumper makes the iphone look like crap. I don't want icrap.

And no, I'm not returning my phone. I put the luckylab decal on the sides...no more issue and the phone still looks like an iphone.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:38 PM
THIS IS NON-ISSUE - I am not sure how else to explain this! If what Steve says does not make sense to you, you should stop using smart phones all together. Any possible redesign will be faced with the same fact - any phone antenna attenuates when you come in touch with it. If it will be fully isolated inside the phone, it will not receive any signal hence you will not be able to call at all. So the trade-off is to put it close to the surface of the phone. But then you grip and loose bars. There is no way around it. End of story.

Why can't I reproduce the issue on my Iphone 3G? If you can explain that, I'm a happy camper!

OllyW
Jul 16, 2010, 07:39 PM
Why would they change their recommendation?

Apple haven't fixed anything, they've just papered over the cracks.

mnb
Jul 16, 2010, 07:40 PM
Q: Who death grips their phone when making a call?

A: Hardly anyone, it's not comfortable and it doesn't allow you to hear or speak as clearly.

Think this might be why so few have reported issues to Apple and so few have returned the phone?


Don't like the Death Grip problem? Don't buy one. That's not enough for you? Get a freakin' life. It's just a phone for christ's sake...

Of course, you could always buy a Droid, which doorstops itself if you modify it. Oh wait, that story was blown way out of proportion, too...

And droids have problems with death grips, too...


Solution: Hold phone normally. Make calls. Surf net. Go on with life.



Why can't I reproduce the issue on my Iphone 3G? If you can explain that, I'm a happy camper!

It's not reproducible if you have a strong signal. And the death grip for the older phone is different.

richman555
Jul 16, 2010, 07:40 PM
Why would they change their recommendation?

Apple haven't fixed anything, they've just papered over the cracks.

There is nothing broken. The phone works as it is designed. Free cases is a nice gesture for those who can't stop holding it wrong.

blizaine
Jul 16, 2010, 07:41 PM
Which other phone loses 20dB when you hold it in your hand?

did you not watch the videos apple posted or the hundreds of other videos on youtube showing other cell phones with the exact same issue?

please pay attention.

tCruzin4lyfe
Jul 16, 2010, 07:42 PM
To me it's not really F Consumer Reports but I never paid them attention. The same way I don't pay movie critics attention. I didn't get my first iPhone because of reports or reviews. I went to the store and tried it myself and with others who had the iPhone and I enjoyed the experience.
I don't think this is PRESSURE on Apple or going to hurt them because they laid it all out for you. I figured it was blown out of proportion and return rates and all would be low but sheesh, those numbers are real low and the majority is happy. Consumer Reports can't change that.
So if people wanna still be upset and not happy then like he said, return it, sell it because you can get some good money for it and move on. Nobody and no company could ever please everybody and that goes for apple. So do what's best for you, CR's opinions are their own as well as all of ours but it's really up to you. Me, I love this phone and would recommend it with no hestitation

KnightWRX
Jul 16, 2010, 07:43 PM
Don't like the Death Grip problem? Don't buy one.

Exactly, I've now scratched iPhone 4 as a remplacement for my 3GS. It's probably going to be a Galaxy S for me.

Last you'll hear me speak on this issue. Apple refuses to fix it. "Death Grip" is such an overblown term that confuses many fanboys anyhow. All you need is to lightly touch the phone with the tip of 1 finger. There is no grip required. No other phones is this prone to the problem, end of story.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:45 PM
Q: Who death grips their phone when making a call?

Solution: Hold phone normally. Make calls. Surf net. Go on with life.

Can you explain the death grip to me?

I hold my phone with 3 fingers and a thumb (my palm doesn't even touch the phone).... My ring finger rests on the spot, and I do move it up, but a funny thing happens... I engage in conversation and I forget to give constant focus on my hand (err.. finger) position -- I know, I know, I should be able to focus on how I'm holding my phone and hold a conversation, but I guess I'm a little dense.

Oh, and as soon as I touch this spot, the person on the other end can't hear a single thing I say... If I don't move it quick enough, the call drops...

Is that the death grip everyone is talking about?

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 07:45 PM
did you not watch the videos apple posted or the hundreds of other videos on youtube showing other cell phones with the exact same issue?

please pay attention.


Those videos are of signal bars not actual numbers.. That's what he's asking for. There aren't any accept for what Anandtech and Consumer Reports did.
You might want to pay attention..

Z-Bro
Jul 16, 2010, 07:46 PM
I just called CR and will be canceling my subscription. I've had all the iPhone versions except for 3G and used the iPhone 4 for 3 weeks. It's an incredible phone and should be recommended by a huge margin. There are so many incredible features in the iPhone that also work simultaneously in concert with our Apple computers:
Dear Consumer Reports,

Please forward this to the appropriate department. Thank you in advance for this.

I am strongly considering canceling my CR web access for a refund. I am appalled of CR's treatment of Apple and the new iPhone 4. I've had my iPhone 4 for three weeks and it is an incredible phone. Today, CR again refused to recommend the iPhone 4 after Apple stated they are addressing every concern and even offering free cases.

CR is greatly benefitting in the press with their contention with Apple. Further, CR has a poll on it's home page asking if their advice is going to steer people away from buying the iPhone. This is deeply troubling me that CR is trying to bring down this incredibly innovative American company. CR is using this to sell their product.

I can no longer recommend CR or trust any of it's rankings and reviews. *

With Sadness,

zacman
Jul 16, 2010, 07:46 PM
did you not watch the videos apple posted or the hundreds of other videos on youtube showing other cell phones with the exact same issue?


I haven't seen a single other phone in that video that loses 20dB (like the iPhone 4) when you touch it. Again: bars are NOT dB! Only dB matter when you want to compare reception but not bars.

richman555
Jul 16, 2010, 07:47 PM
Can you explain the death grip to me?

I hold my phone with 3 fingers and a thumb (my palm doesn't even touch the phone).... My ring finger rests on the spot, and I do move it up, but a funny thing happens... I engage in conversation and I forget to give constant focus on my hand (err.. finger) position -- I know, I know, I should be able to focus on how I'm holding my phone and hold a conversation, but I guess I'm a little dense.

Oh, and as soon as I touch this spot, the person on the other end can't hear a single thing I say... If I don't move it quick enough, the call drops...

Is that the death grip everyone is talking about?

The free case will solve this issue for you. Be happy and enjoy the best phone on the market!

foot56
Jul 16, 2010, 07:47 PM
did you not watch the videos apple posted or the hundreds of other videos on youtube showing other cell phones with the exact same issue?

please pay attention.

Explain this video and further explain how this is not a design flaw? Amazing no death grip needed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7tfH9oBQbk

ryan.stewie
Jul 16, 2010, 07:47 PM
The tides are starting to turn; take a look at CR's blog and the comments, there is a huge rising backlash against them for continuing to bash iPhone 4. They are also being negligent of the fact that MANY other phones have the same issue. (See here: http://www.apple.com/antenna/ )

GL2
Jul 16, 2010, 07:47 PM
While I agree with Consumer Report's conclusion, I suspect part of their decision may have been influenced by the potential limelight to be gained from this non-recomendation, such that it may be wise to regard this announcement with a grain of salt.

Writing negative things about products that can't be backed up with evidence would subject them to litigation. CR has been giving Not Recommended ratings to products they've found to be substandard for years. Do you really believe they suddenly hit on the brilliant idea to start making stuff up for their own marketing purposes?

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:48 PM
did you not watch the videos apple posted or the hundreds of other videos on youtube showing other cell phones with the exact same issue?

please pay attention.

They showed bars drop on other phones. They didn't show complete loss of reception as soon as you touch a certain spot, or a dropped call in a matter of seconds.

That is what the iphone 4 did to me and I don't need Apple to show me.

Show me dropped calls and reception issues on those other phones, and I'll shut up.

thetoad30
Jul 16, 2010, 07:51 PM
What would have happened if Toyota told their customers they were pressing the gas pedal wrong?

Or they should just not speed up to the point where the software error was?

Or that it only happens on the highway and regardless of the fact it could happen, the car still looks good and has lots of safety features to protect you when the ****er won't stop accelerating?

Seriously, people. This is why this nation doesn't excel at science anymore. No one uses critical thinking skills.

The phone's antenna is now EXPOSED. In all the other phones, it never was, and never is for the reason that human contact ATTENUATES signals. In fact, any capacitive or conductive contact to an antenna detunes it. Period.

The mistake here is that Apple didn't figure this out, or ignored it for style.

If you cannot see that, or cannot accept that, then you should take your single finger that cannot cause it and please pull the trigger that "won't" fire the gun into your temple.

You Apple fanboys are absolutely ridiculous. Like little kids that hack at gaming online.

What's the point?

This phone is flawed in the fact that the antenna is touchable. NO OTHER PHONE loses this much signal with a single finger. NONE. BARS do not matter. Signal dB do. But I doubt most of you know what dB are. That's because all you know of DB is that you are called one every day of your life.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:52 PM
I just called CR and will be canceling my subscription. I've had all the iPhone versions except for 3G and used the iPhone 4 for 3 weeks. It's an incredible phone and should be recommended by a huge margin. There are so many incredible features in the iPhone that also work simultaneously in concert with our Apple computers.

You don't have the issue, so CR is to blame?

Just because you don't have an issue doesn't mean that you can completely write them off. I know how bad this issue is from personal/real-world testing, so I know CR's findings are valid.

Why are people going so overboard with this?

And for the record, they gave the iphone 4 an excellent review, they just can't recommend something they know won't work as designed by all purchasers.

OllyW
Jul 16, 2010, 07:52 PM
There is nothing broken. The phone works as it is designed. Free cases is a nice gesture for those who can't stop holding it wrong.

Holding it wrong? :rolleyes:

Explain this video and further explain how this is not a design flaw? Amazing no death grip needed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7tfH9oBQbk

It's not a design flaw, it's working as it is designed. :D

richman555
Jul 16, 2010, 07:53 PM
You can't return your Toyota for a full refund. Also touching the antennae can't kill a person (at least to my inferior scientific knowledge).

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 07:54 PM
Not a horrible fix - you are holding the phone wrong - the black mark on the band tells you where not to squeeze the phone. You may dislike Steve, but he was honest and I dare you to find any other tech CEO that will come out and show the problem with their device. He explained the issue. Apple is being upfront about as compared to other makers like HTC.
Who doesn't put a case on an iPhone??? I am thinking that a smart person would have already done this. I for one have, even though i haven't had any issues. If you don't like it, then return thier iPhone. I think a free bumper is more than any other company would do. The problem with always giving people greatness is that you set yourself up to eventually fail. Maybe I could listen to them bitch if they were trying or have already made a perfect phone. Until then, they are just winey spoiled brats

tCruzin4lyfe
Jul 16, 2010, 07:54 PM
Writing negative things about products that can't be backed up with evidence would subject them to litigation. CR has been giving Not Recommended ratings to products they've found to be substandard for years. Do you really believe they suddenly hit on the brilliant idea to start making stuff up for their own marketing purposes?

I believe so because other things they don't recommend are not made by apple. And we all know how anything Apple makes headlines period. So yes, they are getting alot more attention than normal with this whole situation.

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 07:55 PM
Writing negative things about products that can't be backed up with evidence would subject them to litigation. CR has been giving Not Recommended ratings to products they've found to be substandard for years. Do you really believe they suddenly hit on the brilliant idea to start making stuff up for their own marketing purposes?

I totally agree.
I really wish people would read the CR article before spouting off nonsense.

They complain about CR but no one complains about the signal fix done to the 3GS in 2008 to fake good reception.
They don't complain how apple pr said SJ email were fake, but Boy Geniuos came out and said Apple lied and email was real. What's apple response... nothing..
People need to be a lot more objective and see things for what they are. Everyone lies, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

SeaFox
Jul 16, 2010, 07:56 PM
Jesus Christ... it's not like Consumer Reports is the end all and be all.
Of course not! Apple is!

CR has always rated Apple notebooks very highly. If you say that they have bizarre judgment then you must disregard their high praise for Apple products in the past as well.
Shhhh! Don't try to use logic on the iTards. Consumer Reports doesn't LOVE Apple's iPhone, therefore Consumer Reports MUST suck. These the the limits of what some people here can process.

thedoctor9
Jul 16, 2010, 07:56 PM
Exactly, I've now scratched iPhone 4 as a remplacement for my 3GS. It's probably going to be a Galaxy S for me.

Last you'll hear me speak on this issue. Apple refuses to fix it. "Death Grip" is such an overblown term that confuses many fanboys anyhow. All you need is to lightly touch the phone with the tip of 1 finger. There is no grip required. No other phones is this prone to the problem, end of story.

Why would you even touch the weak spot when you're calling anyway??? Apple is different and even consumer report even acknowledges that it is the best smartphone. Better in everything except when putting a finger on the gap. Again, why are you going to put a finger on the gap when you call???

grmatt
Jul 16, 2010, 07:56 PM
CR are milking this for everything it's worth. The 'can't recommend' headline is pure link bait.

Mike Arrington (typical iPhone "hater") agrees with you: http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/15/iphone-4-consumer-reports-needs-to-get-it-together/

I'd bet that CR got as many hits in the last week as they had all of last year, they're loving it!

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 07:56 PM
Who doesn't put a case on an iPhone??? I am thinking that a smart person would have already done this. I for one have, even though i haven't had any issues. If you don't like it, then return thier iPhone. I think a free bumper is more than any other company would do. The problem with always giving people greatness is that you set yourself up to eventually fail. Maybe I could listen to them bitch if they were trying or have already made a perfect phone. Until then, they are just winey spoiled brats

I don't use a case and have never dropped an iphone (3+ years). Are you saying I'm stupid because you prefer to use a case, or because you have a tendency of dropping your phone and need to protect it?

I would consider myself at least average in intelligence, but I guess not smart enough to use a case :(

blizaine
Jul 16, 2010, 07:57 PM
Those videos are of signal bars not actual numbers.. That's what he's asking for. There aren't any accept for what Anandtech and Consumer Reports did.
You might want to pay attention..

ummm, the signals drop. who gives a crap if it's 20db or not. I've yet to be able to get a call to drop on my iPhone 4 and I've tried hard to do it. Isn't that what really matters? Are we really going to arguing that your signal drops 1 less db than mine, when most all phones drop signal when held?

CFreymarc
Jul 16, 2010, 07:57 PM
Consumer Reports has needed a good controversy for a long time. I guess Nader or someone wanted to make the iPhone 4 like the Corvair.

Now who said, "Insult enough productions and you will be right eventually." to descirbe a critique technique?

Wonder if anyone shorted Apple stock over all this.

thetoad30
Jul 16, 2010, 07:57 PM
You can't return your Toyota for a full refund. Also touching the antennae can't kill a person (at least to my inferior scientific knowledge).

Again, critical thinking skills.

It's called a metaphor. It's a parallel situation, not exact in every detail.

FFS.

dogie678
Jul 16, 2010, 07:57 PM
The tides are starting to turn; take a look at CR's blog and the comments, there is a huge rising backlash against them for continuing to bash iPhone 4. They are also being negligent of the fact that MANY other phones have the same issue. (See here: http://www.apple.com/antenna/ )


Nice

GL2
Jul 16, 2010, 07:57 PM
I believe so because other things they don't recommend are not made by apple. And we all know how anything Apple makes headlines period. So yes, they are getting alot more attention than normal with this whole situation.

I'm not following your logic. Yes, they're getting a lot of attention in this instance because the iPhone 4 is a hot product. But to suggest that this was a calculated move on CR's part to gain subscribers is quite a stretch. As a long-time subscriber, I've always found them to be impartial.

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 07:58 PM
Who doesn't put a case on an iPhone??? I am thinking that a smart person would have already done this. I for one have, even though i haven't had any issues. If you don't like it, then return it! I think a free bumper is more than any other company would do. The problem with always giving people greatness is that you set yourself up to eventually fail. I'd consider listening to the haters bitch if they were trying or have already made a perfect phone. Until then, all the haters are just winey spoiled brats

azurehi
Jul 16, 2010, 07:59 PM
:eek:I just called CR and will be canceling my subscription. I've had all the iPhone versions except for 3G and used the iPhone 4 for 3 weeks. It's an incredible phone and should be recommended by a huge margin. There are so many incredible features in the iPhone that also work simultaneously in concert with our Apple computers:
Dear Consumer Reports,

Please forward this to the appropriate department. Thank you in advance for this.

I am strongly considering canceling my CR web access for a refund. I am appalled of CR's treatment of Apple and the new iPhone 4. I've had my iPhone 4 for three weeks and it is an incredible phone. Today, CR again refused to recommend the iPhone 4 after Apple stated they are addressing every concern and even offering free cases.

CR is greatly benefitting in the press with their contention with Apple. Further, CR has a poll on it's home page asking if their advice is going to steer people away from buying the iPhone. This is deeply troubling me that CR is trying to bring down this incredibly innovative American company. CR is using this to sell their product.

I can no longer recommend CR or trust any of it's rankings and reviews. *

With Sadness,

Oh No, Mr Bill :eek:

fleshman03
Jul 16, 2010, 07:59 PM
I agree with Consumer Reports.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:00 PM
Mike Arrington (typical iPhone "hater") agrees with you: http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/15/iphone-4-consumer-reports-needs-to-get-it-together/

I'd bet that CR got as many hits in the last week as they had all of last year, they're loving it!

But what if you were having the exact same issue they described and the reason why they can't recommend it?

I think people that refuse to see this as a real issue (that is NOT as bad on any other phone) have their blinders on.

I had the issue (returned my phone already) and posted on here a dozen times for people to PM me and I could show them first hand.. Could've had an ichat and would have happily provided my phone # for the call.

You know how many people took me up on that offer? NONE

You would have seen that as soon as I touched the spot, you would no longer hear me, if I left it there, the call would drop.

I just don't understand why everyone is so upset for Consumer Reports. They are supposed to stick up for me (the consumer) and not the company (Apple) or its loyal followers that are willing to put up with flaws.

dm2
Jul 16, 2010, 08:00 PM
But I doubt most of you know what dB are. Database? or wait, database it's DB, so what's the hell is dB?
it's good to know that there are few people out there who really does know
about dB(s) and most importantly they can explain to us mere mortal
what amazing thing dB is:rolleyes:

Chwisch87
Jul 16, 2010, 08:01 PM
Question.

I am going you a random phone. If you touch it in one spot, you can loose all your signal. A case however fixes this issue. Do you recommend this phone?

no ... of course not. A phone should have to come with a case to function properly.

This is why CR still will not recommend it.

dogie678
Jul 16, 2010, 08:01 PM
I've been using my iPhone 4 with and without a case for 3 weeks now with NO issues at all.

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 08:02 PM
I'm not following your logic. Yes, they're getting a lot of attention in this instance because the iPhone 4 is a hot product. But to suggest that this was a calculated move on CR's part to gain subscribers is quite a stretch. As a long-time subscriber, I've always found them to be impartial.

Did people also forget they initially said they didn't see any problems? So many people were linking that blog.
Then they actually went and bought 3 iphone 4 and tested them and said they were wrong.
Now everyone that used them for their 'iphone has no problems' hates them. People are really funny..

QCassidy352
Jul 16, 2010, 08:03 PM
CR just isn't making sense here. They rated this the best overall smartphone antenna problem included. So they can't recommend their own overall winner? I guess then they can't recommend any smartphone?

ChrisTX
Jul 16, 2010, 08:03 PM
I still think this mess is ridiculous. No one is bitching about the iPhone 4 and the reception except for the techies on the internet. Apples data of lower return rates, and lower call volume to Apple about this issue proves this. Why is this so hard to comprehend for everyone. CR is hurting, and looking for free press. Everybody wants a piece of the pie!

tCruzin4lyfe
Jul 16, 2010, 08:05 PM
I'm not following your logic. Yes, they're getting a lot of attention in this instance because the iPhone 4 is a hot product. But to suggest that this was a calculated move on CR's part to gain subscribers is quite a stretch. As a long-time subscriber, I've always found them to be impartial.

Im not saying that from the start it was their plan but Im sure they are fully aware of the attention they are receiving and will receive. Like I said before its their opinion just like we all have our own. But my OPINION is they are going to run with this. Same with websites and everybody who reports news. Its their jobs but with something this hot, they also have other things in mind.

blizaine
Jul 16, 2010, 08:05 PM
Explain this video and further explain how this is not a design flaw? Amazing no death grip needed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7tfH9oBQbk

I guess it's a good thing I don't hold my phone by trying to balance it on the tip on my finger, while talking on it.

Although this has been a closer representation of my results.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMRzXKGzn0g

thedoctor9
Jul 16, 2010, 08:07 PM
Explain this video and further explain how this is not a design flaw? Amazing no death grip needed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7tfH9oBQbk

It is what it is in the video... No one is even contesting that. Even the Apple press con acknowledges that. But do you use your phone by putting a finger on the gap? Probably not. Use the phone correctly and it will work as it is designed to.

tCruzin4lyfe
Jul 16, 2010, 08:07 PM
I still think this mess is ridiculous. No one is bitching about the iPhone 4 and the reception except for the techies on the internet. Apples data of lower return rates, and lower call volume to Apple about this issue proves this. Why is this so hard to comprehend for everyone. CR is hurting, and looking for free press. Everybody wants a piece of the pie!

EXACTLY, I knew numbers were going to be low but man, didnt think that low and thats crazy. Blown way out of proportion but media loves a big story (CR included)

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 08:08 PM
ummm, the signals drop. who gives a crap if it's 20db or not. I've yet to be able to get a call to drop on my iPhone 4 and I've tried hard to do it. Isn't that what really matters? Are we really going to arguing that your signal drops 1 less db than mine, when most all phones drop signal when held?

I'm happy you don't have any problems with your iPhone. But you responded that there are tons of videos out there and for him to pay attention, when you clearly haven't.

Also yes other phones drop signal Bars when held. But none so far drop 20db like the iPhone4, not any of the previous models as well..

And we can't argue if i have 1 less db lees than you cause there aren't videos of it!!
Also I we can't because I have an iPhone 4 too..lol

thetoad30
Jul 16, 2010, 08:08 PM
I've been using my iPhone 4 with and without a case for 3 weeks now with NO issues at all.

Again, in very big text so it sinks into your thick skull:

THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T EXIST.

I don't have the proximity sensor issue. Apple has acknowledged it exists. You don't see me sitting here telling those that see it with their own eyes that it doesn't exist. Or is it that just because Apple said so, it's okay?

i.mac
Jul 16, 2010, 08:09 PM
interesting...

Let's see:

-Apple:

1. We have a 100 mil lab
2. We have 18 well paid PhDs
3. 4 billions in research
4. A phone that noone can beat

-Consumer Report:

1. Not good enough

firewood
Jul 16, 2010, 08:09 PM
Question.

I am going you a random phone. If you touch it in one spot, you can loose all your signal.

Most phones have that. It not only causes a loss of signal, but shuts the phone down.

ChromeAce
Jul 16, 2010, 08:11 PM
What would have happened if Toyota told their customers they were pressing the gas pedal wrong?

Or they should just not speed up to the point where the software error was?

Or that it only happens on the highway and regardless of the fact it could happen, the car still looks good and has lots of safety features to protect you when the ****er won't stop accelerating?

Seriously, people. This is why this nation doesn't excel at science anymore. No one uses critical thinking skills.

The phone's antenna is now EXPOSED. In all the other phones, it never was, and never is for the reason that human contact ATTENUATES signals. In fact, any capacitive or conductive contact to an antenna detunes it. Period.

The mistake here is that Apple didn't figure this out, or ignored it for style.

If you cannot see that, or cannot accept that, then you should take your single finger that cannot cause it and please pull the trigger that "won't" fire the gun into your temple.

You Apple fanboys are absolutely ridiculous. Like little kids that hack at gaming online.

What's the point?

This phone is flawed in the fact that the antenna is touchable. NO OTHER PHONE loses this much signal with a single finger. NONE. BARS do not matter. Signal dB do. But I doubt most of you know what dB are. That's because all you know of DB is that you are called one every day of your life.

Toyota never found a problem with their cars. They recalled in the face of mass hysteria, spurred on by the unprofessional muckraking Gizmodos of the world. It turned out to be driver error. Apple is trying to be smarter about it.

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 08:12 PM
Im not saying that from the start it was their plan but Im sure they are fully aware of the attention they are receiving and will receive. Like I said before its their opinion just like we all have our own. But my OPINION is they are going to run with this. Same with websites and everybody who reports news. Its their jobs but with something this hot, they also have other things in mind.

So this apply also to all rumor websites including MacRumors?

i.mac
Jul 16, 2010, 08:13 PM
Question.

I am going you a random phone. If you touch it in one spot, you can loose all your signal. A case however fixes this issue. Do you recommend this phone?

no ... of course not. A phone should have to come with a case to function properly.

This is why CR still will not recommend it.

BS and you know it

dm2
Jul 16, 2010, 08:15 PM
muckraking Gizmodos of the world.

so you're saying all that antenna b******t is gizmodos' revenge?
I say it very well could be the true:)

CaptainWalker
Jul 16, 2010, 08:15 PM
I kid you not. When I give my phone the so-called "Death Grip" I actually gain a bar.
I'm sorry that some people some where are having trouble with theirs, but I truthfully have not been having the same troubles.

kenaustus
Jul 16, 2010, 08:16 PM
The queer part with the Consumer Reports blog is that their test results (the part that should count) is a "Paid Only" access. With CR happily blogging their opinions on a But Recommendation and pulling in the strong publicity they should, at a minimum, provide their full report, including comparisons with other brands.

ChrisTX
Jul 16, 2010, 08:16 PM
Again, in very big text so it sinks into your thick skull:

THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T EXIST.

I don't have the proximity sensor issue. Apple has acknowledged it exists. You don't see me sitting here telling those that see it with their own eyes that it doesn't exist. Or is it that just because Apple said so, it's okay?

You are missing the point. The idea with all of this is the problem is so large that EVERYONE is having antenna, and reception issues. Haven't you been paying attention to the internet? However the cold hard truth, as presented by Apple, and millions of users is that the phone works great out in the wild, and the problems are far less greater than CR, and the internet would have you believe. You are ignorant to the truth if you still believe this is a pressing issue plaguing all iPhone users. I'm a day 1 iPhone 4 user with no problems, and not 1 dropped call. Faster internet speeds than on my 3g as well.

jsf8x
Jul 16, 2010, 08:16 PM
I actually agree with Consumer Reports about this, there's no reason for them to change they're review based on whether or not a phone has a case on it.

Portal83
Jul 16, 2010, 08:17 PM
♫ If you don't want an iPhone 4 (don't buy it) ♫
♩ If you bought one and you don't like it (bring it back) ♩

i.mac
Jul 16, 2010, 08:18 PM
I agree with Consumer Reports.

Aparently three million+ people do not give a crap Bout you or cr, still purchase the phone, and enjoy all the goodies within...

Heard about the bumble bee that experts said could/should not flight?

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:18 PM
Toyota never found a problem with their cars. They recalled in the face of mass hysteria, spurred on by the unprofessional muckraking Gizmodos of the world. It turned out to be driver error. Apple is trying to be smarter about it.

But I know there is a problem. I saw it for myself. Are you saying I'm lying?

The only people that won't admit this is a big issue is:

- Apple (who went on to compare their phone to others to say they're all the same -- What happened to Apple being superior?). And let's not forget they showed bars and not a drop in reception which is exactly what the iphone 4 does immediately in my location, and the 3G didn't.

- Apple fans who don't have the issue and therefore conclude it's not an issue or is not a major issue.

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 08:18 PM
i said that a SMART person would put a case on their iPhone. who cares if you have never dropped your phone? I never dropped mine either but i still had a case on it. I think even if you are (as you put it) "stupid" you should put a case on your iPhone and if someone is not pleased with their purchase then they should return it. Have YOU ever made a phone??? if so is it perfect?
I don't use a case and have never dropped an iphone (3+ years). Are you saying I'm stupid because you prefer to use a case, or because you have a tendency of dropping your phone and need to protect it?

I would consider myself at least average in intelligence, but I guess not smart enough to use a case :(

jsf8x
Jul 16, 2010, 08:20 PM
Aparently three million+ people do not give a crap Bout you or cr, still purchase the phone, and enjoy all the goodies within...

Heard about the bumble bee that experts said could/should not flight?

Whats up with you being an ass hole, I never said I don't like the new iPhone. I'm just saying that I don't know why people are bitching about this stupid consumer reports review. I also don't know why anybody believes it should be changed after todays press conf

thetoad30
Jul 16, 2010, 08:20 PM
You are missing the point. The idea with all of this is the problem is so large that EVERYONE is having antenna, and reception issues. Haven't you been paying attention to the internet? However the cold hard truth, as presented by Apple, and millions of users is that the phone works great out in the wild, and the problems are far less greater than CR, and the internet would have you believe. You are ignorant to the truth if you still believe this is a pressing issue plaguing all iPhone users. I'm a day 1 iPhone 4 user with no problems, and not 1 dropped call. Faster internet speeds than on my 3g as well.

And you're missing the point that EVERY iPhone 4 DOES have this issue.

It may not be appearing at your place or where you use the phone due to your skin conditions, how much salinity is on the surface and in your hand/fingers, and based on what frequency, tower, equipment at the tower, etc. is being used.

You cannot change the laws of physics, regardless if you're seeing the issue or not. The attenuation of the iPhone 4 IS REAL and DOES exist, even if you cannot replicate it on your phone in your current position. I've actually had the problem come and go in the exact same spot in my house on different days, even in different hours of the day. It seems completely random. But it HAPPENS. This cannot be refuted. As I stated, it is physics, pure and simple.

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 08:22 PM
i said that a SMART person would put a case on their iPhone. who cares if you have never dropped your phone? I never dropped mine either but i still had a case on it. I think even if you are (as you put it) "stupid" you should put a case on your iPhone and if someone is not pleased with their purchase then they should return it. Have YOU ever made a phone??? if so is it perfect?

Hmm I guess you think Apple and Steve Jobs aren't too SMART either than, since they decided not to include or think the iPhone 4 needed a bumper or casefrom the factory...

Just saying...

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:23 PM
i said that a SMART person would put a case on their iPhone. who cares if you have never dropped your phone? I never dropped mine either but i still had a case on it. I think even if you are (as you put it) "stupid" you should put a case on your iPhone and if someone is not pleased with their purchase then they should return it. Have YOU ever made a phone??? if so is it perfect?

Yeah, so if I don't put a case on my phone, I'm not smart. What's the opposite of smart?

If I said, "If you were smart, you wouldn't drive drunk". Could you conclude that I would think you're stupid to drive drunk? I think so.

I'm glad you have a case on your phone -- Congrats!! Do you want a cookie? Does that mean I should have a case too? I have long curly hair so everyone should have long curly hair!

I did return my phone, but thanks for the recommendation. Does that mean I still can't complain? I like iphones and I want it to work for me so I can have one again.

I have never made a phone, but what the hell does that have to do with anything? Making a phone isn't easy, so I should just deal with major flaws? Get real!

You're ridiculous :rolleyes:

tCruzin4lyfe
Jul 16, 2010, 08:24 PM
So this apply also to all rumor websites including MacRumors?

Well um, they do want traffic so, yeah. They will report what's hot and get people to their sites. Not saying its WRONG because its their job but it is what it is. Plain and simple.

skidbubble
Jul 16, 2010, 08:25 PM
298,350,000 iPhone 4 owners still not recommending Consumer Reports

Numerical fail.

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 08:26 PM
"Return rates through AT&T for iPhone 4 are at 1.7%"

So this doesn't includes return rate through Apple stores?

Dillenger
Jul 16, 2010, 08:27 PM
There have been many things that Consumer Reports said not to buy, things which I had already purchased and MANY of them worked just fine and lasted quite a while. For instance I have a Panasonic Microwave Oven that has given me many, many years of service, even though they did not recommend buying it. It's a crap shoot at times, and they have been wrong on many occasions, so technically speaking they can go suck and egg. :p

gorgeousninja
Jul 16, 2010, 08:28 PM
And you're missing the point that EVERY iPhone 4 DOES have this issue.

It may not be appearing at your place or where you use the phone due to your skin conditions, how much salinity is on the surface and in your hand/fingers, and based on what frequency, tower, equipment at the tower, etc. is being used.

You cannot change the laws of physics, regardless if you're seeing the issue or not. The attenuation of the iPhone 4 IS REAL and DOES exist, even if you cannot replicate it on your phone in your current position. I've actually had the problem come and go in the exact same spot in my house on different days, even in different hours of the day. It seems completely random. But it HAPPENS. This cannot be refuted. As I stated, it is physics, pure and simple.

So, what is your point? If you don't like the iphone (if you even have one) TAKE IT BACK, and if you haven't bought one then please DON'T because there is a tiny weensy chance that you will actually like it, and then what would you do?

ChromeAce
Jul 16, 2010, 08:28 PM
The pedals caught on the floormats was a separate, unrelated issue which occurred months before the alleged unintended acceleration issue.

From the Associated Press:

NEW YORK – The Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of black boxes in Toyota vehicles involved in accidents blamed on unintended acceleration, finding the throttles were open and the brakes were not engaged, the Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday.

That suggests that drivers of the speeding cars were stepping on the accelerator rather than hitting the brakes. The vehicles investigated came from a sample in which the drivers said they were braking but failed to stop the car before crashing, the newspaper said, citing unnamed sources familiar with the findings.

Transportation Department officials declined to confirm the report and did not comment. Toyota spokesman Mike Michels said the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has not shared its findings with the Japanese automaker but said their own findings from investigations of unintended acceleration are consistent with the report.

The black boxes, called event data recorders, are devices that track a number of details about a vehicle around the time of an accident, including which pedals were applied and how fast the car was traveling.
Toyota has recalled more than 8.5 million vehicles worldwide since last fall due to faulty accelerators, floor mats that may trap gas pedals, and brake problems in Priuses, among other problems. The largest problems were due to unintended acceleration, which the automaker has sought to address by fixing the gas pedals and floor mats.

The government has said unintended acceleration in Toyotas may have been involved in the deaths of 93 people over the past decade. The agency has received about 3,000 complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyotas.
Daniel Smith, NHTSA's associate administrator for enforcement, told a panel with the National Academy of Sciences reviewing unintended acceleration last month that the agency had not yet found any defects beyond the two problems cited by Toyota: pedals that can become entrapped by floor mats and sticking accelerator pedals.

DefiantSoul
Jul 16, 2010, 08:28 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

Darn. All the grandparents of America are now wondering what an iPhone is so they can be sure not to buy one. Honestly, even if my iPhone 4 did have the signal problem, which it doesn't, it would still be a non-issue because I'm not dumb enough to not use a case with my $600 glass phone! If you are dumb enough, well, you get what you deserve.

dm2
Jul 16, 2010, 08:29 PM
"Return rates through AT&T for iPhone 4 are at 1.7%"

So this doesn't includes return rate through Apple stores?
in Q&A session they said it was less than AT&T's rate, but they didn't give exact number though

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:29 PM
Heard about the bumble bee that experts said could/should not flight?

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Were you watching Animal Planet and just wanted to share your new found knowledge?? :rolleyes:

skidbubble
Jul 16, 2010, 08:29 PM
Exactly, I've now scratched iPhone 4 as a remplacement for my 3GS. It's probably going to be a Galaxy S for me.

Last you'll hear me speak on this issue. Apple refuses to fix it. "Death Grip" is such an overblown term that confuses many fanboys anyhow. All you need is to lightly touch the phone with the tip of 1 finger. There is no grip required. No other phones is this prone to the problem, end of story.

Finally somebody who gets it. You do not need to grapple your phone like a primate or apply white-knuckle crushing force to make this happen.

brewcitywi
Jul 16, 2010, 08:29 PM
If it can be proven that every other phone has a weak spot, and that it can be shown (similar to Apple's demonstration), Consumer Reports might be liable for defamation and loss of sales due to releasing biased consumer advice.

They must put all other phones through the same test before singling out the iPhone 4.

All that being said, I wonder if it was too tough to have put this particular antenna on the top or bottom of the phone...it would have been much less likely to cover it up with the palm of someone's hand. There must not have been quite enough room.

shambo
Jul 16, 2010, 08:30 PM
Apple Fanbois need to get a grip for once in their life. Hopefully a tight left handed one. Maybe just then they'd realise was a bunch of sycophants they are to old Steve and the failing brand image. :rolleyes:

thetoad30
Jul 16, 2010, 08:31 PM
So, what is your point? If you don't like the iphone (if you even have one) TAKE IT BACK, and if you haven't bought one then please DON'T because there is a tiny weensy chance that you will actually like it, and then what would you do?

This is my point.

I DO have the phone, I DO like it, but it has a major flaw. The antenna. Why should I have a take it or leave it decision?

Granted, taking it back is now the only option if I don't want to deal with it.

But I shouldn't HAVE to deal with it. And really, neither should any of the fanboys, they're just too damn enamored with Apple to realize that they are getting the shaft just as much as those that are complaining.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:33 PM
If it can be proven that every other phone has a weak spot, and that it can be shown (similar to Apple's demonstration), Consumer Reports might be liable for defamation and loss of sales due to releasing biased consumer advice.

They must put all other phones through the same test before singling out the iPhone 4.

All that being said, I wonder if it was too tough to have put this particular antenna on the top or bottom of the phone...it would have been much less likely to cover it up with the palm of someone's hand. There must not have been quite enough room.

There is no other phone out there that drops reception by touching it in a specific spot with a single finger.

If I'm wrong, show me and I'll be happy to admit my error.

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 08:33 PM
If it can be proven that every other phone has a weak spot, and that it can be shown (similar to Apple's demonstration), Consumer Reports might be liable for defamation and loss of sales due to releasing biased consumer advice.

They must put all other phones through the same test before singling out the iPhone 4.

All that being said, I wonder if it was too tough to have put this particular antenna on the top or bottom of the phone...it would have been much less likely to cover it up with the palm of someone's hand. There must not have been quite enough room.

Will people read the article before spouting nonsense!! Please!
They tested 3 Iphones 4 a 3GS and a pre from different stores in the area, that they bought. The iPhone 4 was the onl;y one that degraded so much that it would be unusable for some. That's why the don't recomend the phone.
Not because of some signal bars, but actual signal in db..

READ the article before complaining please!

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 08:36 PM
"Return rates through AT&T for iPhone 4 are at 1.7%"

So this doesn't includes return rate through Apple stores?

No it doesn't, but it does say that a large retailer that sells the iP4 only sees a return rate of 1.7%.

brewcitywi
Jul 16, 2010, 08:37 PM
Instead of a White and Black iPhone 4, Apple should just release a Righty and Lefty iPhone 4!

swingerofbirch
Jul 16, 2010, 08:37 PM
Apple has been (for reasons unknown to me) the press's darling. There was that episode of Modern Family devoted to the iPad. CNN and the Huffington Post run huge stories about Apple products that read like ads.

But I noticed today the sites' angles were different. One headline on the HP was "Jobs' Excuses."

With Apple (in front of the press) today taking shots at Gizmodo, Engadget, Bloomberg, and the New York Times, it would be hard for them to come out and attack Consumer Reports. Apple is how Microsoft was being treated. Apple is the picked on kid (press wise) and often is the case when you're the picked on kid any attempt to try to set the record straight or say what's unfair only gets you picked on more.

I don't understand how their press coverage rose to such great heights, and I similarly don't know how they'll get that back again. They've certainly seen much darker days than this, though.

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 08:38 PM
No it doesn't, but it does say that a large retailer that sells the iP4 only sees a return rate of 1.7%.

Does that include numbers for retailers other than AT&T?

Wonder what the real number would be?

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:38 PM
Will people read the article before spouting nonsense!! Please!
They tested 3 Iphones 4 a 3GS and a pre from different stores in the area, that they bought. The iPhone 4 was the onl;y one that degraded so much that it would be unusable for some. That's why the don't recomend the phone.
Not because of some signal bars, but actual signal in db..

READ the article before complaining please!

Weespeed -- These people can't read the full review because it hurts their argument. It's best for them to remain superficial and state that they have only ever done this test with the iphone 4.

It's really unbelievable.

And the ones saying all other phones have this issue of bars dropping, where is the proof that reception drops too? I'm pretty sure this proof doesn't exist because it doesn't happen. I don't care about bars as long as my call stays connected.

Unfortunately, that's asking too much I guess :(

shambo
Jul 16, 2010, 08:38 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

Darn. All the grandparents of America are now wondering what an iPhone is so they can be sure not to buy one. Honestly, even if my iPhone 4 did have the signal problem, which it doesn't, it would still be a non-issue because I'm not dumb enough to not use a case with my $600 glass phone! If you are dumb enough, well, you get what you deserve.

We have a winner folks, an iFail 4 user who has no reception problems. Not only that, the retard covers up a beautifully designed piece of wrk, the way it was meant to be, with plastic tat cases. A WINNER!!!!!

saxon48
Jul 16, 2010, 08:38 PM
I don't recommend Consumer Reports. For anything.

brewcitywi
Jul 16, 2010, 08:39 PM
There is no other phone out there that drops reception by touching it in a specific spot with a single finger.

If I'm wrong, show me and I'll be happy to admit my error.

You could be right, and I only have my own iPhone 4 as a test. I had to really grip my iPhone 4 pretty tightly before I lost a bar. However, I may be in an area that gets fairly good reception.

scottness
Jul 16, 2010, 08:39 PM
You seriously are a ****ing idiot.

They repaired the pedals since they were losing spring flex, and they DID find software errors in the Prius that caused the brakes to cut out.

Do research before you speak, Apple pawn.

Wow. Seems like the posting quality on MR is becoming less and less... you know.

:(

Philalbe
Jul 16, 2010, 08:39 PM
I hear after Sept 30 Apple will start giving away free packs of gum so you can fix the problem yourself AND have a tasty chew beforehand.

:D ha!

Z-Bro
Jul 16, 2010, 08:40 PM
We are so lucky to have a great American company like Apple. How can you find fault with the below statement by Steve Jobs? I am fortunate to have my iPhone 4 and can't wait to see what the iPhone 5 will do. Adversity will help Apple even more. As for those 1% who are unhappy with Apple and return their phone, they will be stuck in someone else's two year contract with an Android phone. I have compassion for those poor souls--let's be forgiving that their mind is stuck in such a negative, unhappy place.
From article in Macworld's coverage of today:
If customers aren’t happy with the iPhone 4—“before or after you get a free case,” Jobs added—they can bring back the undamaged phone within 30 days for a full refund. Jobs said Apple won’t charge a restocking fee and that users would be able to get out of their contracts with AT&T.

“We want to make all of our customers happy,” Jobs said. “And if you don’t know that about Apple, you don’t know Apple.”

brewcitywi
Jul 16, 2010, 08:42 PM
Will people read the article before spouting nonsense!! Please!
They tested 3 Iphones 4 a 3GS and a pre from different stores in the area, that they bought. The iPhone 4 was the onl;y one that degraded so much that it would be unusable for some. That's why the don't recomend the phone.
Not because of some signal bars, but actual signal in db..

READ the article before complaining please!

I'm only debating the Apple press conference today. Their evidence is fairly striking. They got other quality phones to drop bars. Again, I have to grip my iPhone 4 pretty tightly before losing bars...maybe I'm in better reception area.

I'm simply saying that legally, who knows what someone could do, if there were multiple credible tests. Whose test is more credible? Stranger things have been litigated.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:42 PM
You live and die by the sword...

Apple is all about the media leading up to and including a new product releases, but then when an issue happens, it's the media blowing it out of proportion.

Apple creates the media zoo with their releases and Apple loves it as long as it's all positive. When it's not, they take shots at them and they have their Apple loyals out and about calling for their heads.

scottness
Jul 16, 2010, 08:43 PM
I have compassion for those poor souls--let's be forgiving that their mind is stuck in such a negative, unhappy place.


Made me smile... :)

SeaFox
Jul 16, 2010, 08:43 PM
The queer part with the Consumer Reports blog is that their test results (the part that should count) is a "Paid Only" access. With CR happily blogging their opinions on a But Recommendation and pulling in the strong publicity they should, at a minimum, provide their full report, including comparisons with other brands.
If they did that they would be throwing away the very information that they survive on. Consumer Reports is a non-profit. You want to know what their opinion is that badly, cough up the cash and find out. Otherwise you're free to ignore them and keep using your iPhone.

They don't have to back up what they say for free if they don't want to, just like you don't have to let them get you worked up.

Mike Arrington (typical iPhone "hater") agrees with you: http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/15/iphone-4-consumer-reports-needs-to-get-it-together/

I'd bet that CR got as many hits in the last week as they had all of last year, they're loving it!
LOL. "Hits"? Why would Consumer Reports want hits that badly. CR is a product review website that generally requires subscription to view. It's not a blog like, well, Macrumors. Do you see any ads on CR? The reason companies are so hard-on for hits is because of the advertisement impressions they get by you viewing their site. CR doesn't have any advertisers to deliver to customers. The main thing the extra views does is cost them more money in hosting.

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 08:47 PM
Are you this annoying and dramatic in the REAL world??? Seriously, stop being so serious. :cool: Yeah, so if I don't put a case on my phone, I'm not smart. What's the opposite of smart?

If I said, "If you were smart, you wouldn't drive drunk". Could you conclude that I would think you're stupid to drive drunk? I think so.

I'm glad you have a case on your phone -- Congrats!! Do you want a cookie? Does that mean I should have a case too? I have long curly hair so everyone should have long curly hair!

I did return my phone, but thanks for the recommendation. Does that mean I still can't complain? I like iphones and I want it to work for me so I can have one again.

I have never made a phone, but what the hell does that have to do with anything? Making a phone isn't easy, so I should just deal with major flaws? Get real!

You're ridiculous :rolleyes:

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:47 PM
You could be right, and I only have my own iPhone 4 as a test. I had to really grip my iPhone 4 pretty tightly before I lost a bar. However, I may be in an area that gets fairly good reception.

And that is where the misconception comes from.. Sure, you can grip your phone tight and may see a bar or two or even three drop.... That's not my issue.

I just touch the spot and immediately my reception drops and my call will drop shortly there after.

I can run a speed test and let it start, then put my finger in place and it drops back down.

The minor issue of bars dropping is probably in areas with good reception, so it's no biggie. My issue is in a poor reception location, but it was a location that was good enough for my 3G no matter how I held it.

Apple only showed examples of bars dropping and I don't think that was by accident. Why didn't they give more proof of poor reception and dropped calls?

Sure they provided dropped call stats (less than 1 additional dropped call per 100), but let's not forget that the phone has better reception in most areas, so those areas where calls would've normally been dropped with the 3G are cancelling out the dropped calls of people in poor reception areas.

CaptainWalker
Jul 16, 2010, 08:51 PM
We have a winner folks, an iFail 4 user who has no reception problems. Not only that, the retard covers up a beautifully designed piece of wrk, the way it was meant to be, with plastic tat cases. A WINNER!!!!!

Ummm....make that two.
I bought mine on the first day, have used it constantly since then, and have only observed IMPROVED signal strength over my iPhone 3G
Let me state that again in case you missed it the first time.
I have better signal reception than I had with my previous iPhone.

You'll probably just disregard me, and call me "liberal" or some other word you assume must mean an insult.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:51 PM
Are you this annoying and dramatic in the REAL world??? Seriously, stop being so serious. :cool:

Only when dealing with morons.

And there are a lot of words you could have used to describe how I'm coming off in these posts, but I don't think annoying and dramatic fit... Here are some you may want to try next time:

Awesome
Clever
Quick-witted
Hilarious
level-headed

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 08:52 PM
I'm only debating the Apple press conference today. Their evidence is fairly striking. They got other quality phones to drop bars. Again, I have to grip my iPhone 4 pretty tightly before losing bars...maybe I'm in better reception area.

I'm simply saying that legally, who knows what someone could do, if there were multiple credible tests. Whose test is more credible? Stranger things have been litigated.

I understand what you're saying and know where you're coming from.
My only problem with 'Their evidence is fairly striking" is it's being presented by Apple to benefit and deflect issues for the iPhone4.
If they really want to put this to rest, show the same tests they did in their videos side by side with iPhone4, showing the signal scale in db and not bars... That would shut a lot of people up.

But they won't. I'm sure CR will do it if enough people bash them and call them liars etc, like they do here. Then we'll see...

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:54 PM
Ummm....make that two.
I bought mine on the first day, have used it constantly since then, and have only observed IMPROVED signal strength over my iPhone 3G
Let me state that again in case you missed it the first time.
I have better signal reception than I had with my previous iPhone.

You'll probably just disregard me, and call me "liberal" or some other word you assume must mean an insult.

The point is, just because you're not having an issue doesn't mean others aren't. So, when people post they aren't having an issue, people that are having the issue feel like these same people are calling them liars.

Now move to Russia you liberal commie!

Ps. That was a joke ;)

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 08:54 PM
I've never liked CR. Their reports and test are useful and I believe honest, but I found that their evaluation of a product is based on criterias that rarely matches mine. I would prefer a simple report of the result of tests, sometimes an education on the characteristic to look for, but no so much emphasis on the recommendation. Their assessment of the iPh4 is just the result of their editorial philosophy.

DCJ001
Jul 16, 2010, 08:54 PM
There is no other phone out there that drops reception by touching it in a specific spot with a single finger.

If I'm wrong, show me and I'll be happy to admit my error.

That was easy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Hy1cXwGhI#t=4m22s

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 08:55 PM
Does that include numbers for retailers other than AT&T?

Wonder what the real number would be?

I guess the real question is, what number would satisfy you?

JimMacFan
Jul 16, 2010, 08:55 PM
How can anyone actually defend apple in this case. They designed a phone and F'd it up! I love my ipad, mac mini, and ipods but cmon folks!!!!! Apple blew this one.....its not the end of the world.

BTW..How much do you think steve jobs paid for his transplant? Got that liver pretty damn quick.

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 08:56 PM
I've never liked CR. Their reports and test are useful and I believe honest, but I found that their evaluation of a product is based on criterias that rarely matches mine. I would prefer a simple report of the result of tests, sometimes an education on the characteristic to look for, but no so much emphasis on the recommendation. Their assessment of the iPh4 is just the result of their editorial philosophy.

Totally agree with you.

My only problem is people bashing an article and CR that haven't even read it. It annoys the hell out of me.

klrobinson999
Jul 16, 2010, 08:56 PM
Consumer Reports is a respected magazine, has a TON of subscribers, and this could impact sales...but I doubt it!

AidenShaw
Jul 16, 2010, 08:57 PM
What I find most interesting of all, is that even tho Apple provided ACTUAL HARD DATA backing up their claims that it is MOSTLY a non-issue....

I didn't see any ACTUAL HARD DATA from Apple, just a few statistics without any description of the methodology behind them.

It was sad - start with the premise that all smartphones have this problem, and cherry pick a few numbers that don't disagree with your foregone conclusion.

msazone
Jul 16, 2010, 08:58 PM
Consumer report is not recommended period~

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 08:58 PM
That was easy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Hy1cXwGhI#t=4m22s

This is showing bars dropping and was done by Apple -- Are you serious?

I don't care about bars.. I want to hear a call and hear a dropped call or choppy reception.

Why didn't Apple show that? You know why, because even though bars drop, they don't drop calls.

weespeed
Jul 16, 2010, 08:58 PM
I guess the real question is, what number would satisfy you?

I don't need to be satisfied. I just want to know cause I'm curious.

I'm sure it's a lot higher than what they reported, and I'm sure you'll agree.

chatin
Jul 16, 2010, 09:00 PM
Steve's voice sounded like a 16th century "true believer" being hauled out of the Tower of London for beheading. The press conference was an over-reaction to some admittedly weak tech politics.

Should have sent Tim Cook out with some dry storyboards and said case is included with every purchase.

echo44
Jul 16, 2010, 09:00 PM
1)AT&T logs every dropped phone call and the iphone4
has an increase of <1 per 100
I happen to be lucky and my new iPhone 4 works better than my 3gs

maybe its related to my location?

What Steve was trying to say today is Apple realizes there is a problem!
Even though their analytical information shows the problem is limited to small number of users they still care and are being responsible to those users who are having problems. If you listen to his presentation carefully he states at this time the only solution apple has is to offer your money back or a new case!.
He states that Apple is working on new hardware designs to fix problems inherent in all cells phones, to improve antenna function and reception. In the future he says Apple hopes to overcome these problems. What else can Apple do for you? They have no hardware fix at this time so they offer you a free case which solves the problem or your money back. He states Apple was aware of these signal drops before the phone was released and felt it wasn't really a big deal. He was right based on the amount of returns and feedback. However it seems as if the media has blown these issues amazingly out of proportion!! I checked today at one time The iphone debacle was the lead story on both CNN and FOX news web sites!
I am pretty sure if Nokia the largest cell phone maker in the world released a phone that dropped signal when you hold it a certain way it would never even make the news!!
The reason Steve showed pictures of the 100 million dollar antenna testing facilities was not to impress people but to show that Apple does careful testing of their products and a lot of thought and engineering goes into these phones before being released he than goes on to say even with this Apple is not perfect! At the release he stressed that Apple's companies main directive is the users experience and happiness and they take this very personally!
If they didn't care he wouldn't have this press conference as you will see on Tuesday Apple sales are off the chart not just the iPhone but every product they make!
I can't remember Bill Gates ever apologizing for Vista or any other Microsoft misstep?
Does this phone have the best reception no way. None of the smart phones are known for their reception it is a trade off. IMO the iphone has the sleekest operating system, best screen and greatest selection of apps
thats what is important to me and the other 3 million users who are happy!

Blue Jobs
Jul 16, 2010, 09:00 PM
It is very simple......

If you don't like the iPhone4 then DON'T BUY IT

If you bought an iPhone4 and don't like it then RETURN IT....NOW


Let see if the return rate will hit the ceiling...Apple very confident that its a small proportion only affected with what so called "Antennagate"

AidenShaw
Jul 16, 2010, 09:01 PM
"Return rates through AT&T for iPhone 4 are at 1.7%"

So this doesn't includes return rate through Apple stores?

That's "cherry picking" your stats.... Only quote the ones that support your foregone conclusion. ;)

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 09:01 PM
The point is, just because you're not having an issue doesn't mean others aren't. So, when people post they aren't having an issue, people that are having the issue feel like these same people are calling them liars.

Now move to Russia you liberal commie!

Ps. That was a joke ;)

I've had no problems with call quality or dropped calls on my iPhone4. Works at least as good as my 3GS. Got mine on June 23rd. Had to return the first one due to a problem will the display getting gray lines. My second one works just as good as the first. No call problems.

JimMacFan
Jul 16, 2010, 09:02 PM
No Iphone 4 for me......wife is sticking with 3GS and I am getting a DROID X! Can't for the X to arrive.

gorgeousninja
Jul 16, 2010, 09:02 PM
This is my point.

I DO have the phone, I DO like it, but it has a major flaw. The antenna. Why should I have a take it or leave it decision?

Granted, taking it back is now the only option if I don't want to deal with it.

But I shouldn't HAVE to deal with it. And really, neither should any of the fanboys, they're just too damn enamored with Apple to realize that they are getting the shaft just as much as those that are complaining.

Look, this is something that we're not going to be able to agree on.. you have this problem, several hundreds of thousands(millions)? of people like me, don't. Now, I don't know if you are using a case on your phone or not, I am, for two reasons; 1) I have read that there is an antenna problem if you bridge the small gap, and 2) I am human, and will doubtless at some point, drop my phone, so would prefer that it didn't break. For most people this is such an easy logical solution, others obstinately refuse, and then continue to whinge and whine, ad-nauseum...

Fz1jp
Jul 16, 2010, 09:02 PM
Crap what am I going to do now, CR does not recommend it and I bought it. It's perfect, i have no issues at all, but CR says they can't recommend it, omg omg omg what to do what to do. I guess i have to bring it back, I mean if CR says it's not going to recommend it, it has to go back!! They know everything, oh wait a sec, the toaster oven i bought that they recommended sucked and broke. The washing machine sucked, the air conditioner sucked. O right, CR sucks, i forgot, phew i guess i can keep my iPhone now.

octokiddie
Jul 16, 2010, 09:04 PM
I just don't understand you, guys
Apple brings out a product which THEY think is great. Now it is YOUR decision, whether is is good for you or not. If it's not good enough for YOU, then why spend your money on it? Has anybody ever made you buy it?
Why is everyone expecting Apple to be perfect? They are just NORMAL PEOPLE, like me and you. I just don't get how it isn't obvious, it is so simple! We have freedom to buy what we want and to use what we want!
Why are you guys bother spending your time and money on the phone you don't like. Just return it and let others live in peace for Gods sake.

You can flame SJ as much as you want, but there are no perfect products!! And there won't be any in the future! EVER! DEAL WITH IT!

And if you think otherwise, just try to make one and drop me a message when you have it, I'll buy it!


so much for my first port on this board... i feel sad about this whole issue and especially about people who struggle dealing with it

ChrisTX
Jul 16, 2010, 09:05 PM
BTW..How much do you think steve jobs paid for his transplant? Got that liver pretty damn quick.
You sir, are cold hearted.

LondonCentral
Jul 16, 2010, 09:06 PM
My personal and very crude iPhone 4 FIX; if unhappy, return your phone, get refund and ***** off. :D

It literally couldn't be ANY simpler. Apple have made something you're apparently not happy with, so get a refund and go elsewhere.

If you're not satisfied with that, you may as well start whining about how Apple don't sell jet packs and how much you'd really reaaaally like one...

azurehi
Jul 16, 2010, 09:07 PM
Plato imagines a group of people who have lived chained in a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to seeing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not constitutive of reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.

Apple Shadows :confused:

echo44
Jul 16, 2010, 09:07 PM
as stated in my previous post I am very happy with my iphone 4
I did notice one strange thing about todays event.

Did anyone else notice the low number he quoted for iphone 4 returns
was for "the largest reseller AT&T" These are not return number for Apple store which I would imagine is responsible for the majority of phones sold. I wonder how many returns Apple received? I am very surprised none of the media folks have picked up on this?

insidmal
Jul 16, 2010, 09:07 PM
Dear consumer reports,
please test other phones in this way.
Thanks.

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 09:09 PM
No Iphone 4 for me......wife is sticking with 3GS and I am getting a DROID X! Can't for the X to arrive.

Since apple is now gving away bumpers with the iPhone, I wonder if the Droidx will include a free purse to carry it :cool:

JimMacFan
Jul 16, 2010, 09:09 PM
You sir, are cold hearted.

Why cold hearted? His money helped him leap frog many people on a list to get the transplant. If you dont believe that you are naive. Ask the people who died waiting for a transplant while steve got one in weeks. Nice to have money. I wonder if the surgeon got a free Iphone. If he did at least it didn't have the death grip issue.

thetoad30
Jul 16, 2010, 09:09 PM
I just don't understand you, guys
Apple brings out a product which THEY think is great. Now it is YOUR decision, whether is is good for you or not. If it's not good enough for YOU, then why spend your money on it? Has anybody ever made you buy it?
Why is everyone expecting Apple to be perfect? They are just NORMAL PEOPLE, like me and you. I just don't get how it isn't obvious, it is so simple! We have freedom to buy what we want and to use what we want!
Why are you guys bother spending your time and money on the phone you don't like. Just return it and let others live in peace for Gods sake.

You can flame SJ as much as you want, but there are no perfect products!! And there won't be any in the future! EVER! DEAL WITH IT!

And if you think otherwise, just try to make one and drop me a message when you have it, I'll buy it!


so much for my first port on this board... i feel sad about this whole issue and especially about people who struggle dealing with it

I don't think anyone here said they wanted a perfect phone.

Merely, one that either lives up to what other phones do, or yes, even better than them since some of us really want to like Apple.

No other phone out there loses ALL reception and ceases calls and data transfers like the iP4.

We don't care about losing signal, or attenuation. We DO care about losing calls and data transfers just from holding the damn thing.

JCCL
Jul 16, 2010, 09:10 PM
Apple is the best tech company ever. You should be ashamed to have anything negative to say about Apple. Steve Jobs and crew have basically invented the personal computer. What have you done in your life, he knows better than you, just buy Apple products, enjoy and shut up.

Hope that was sarcasting, if not really need to grow up and make your own opinion kid.

pufferfish89
Jul 16, 2010, 09:11 PM
I still have a Motorola RAZR with T-Mobile that has served me well for several years and seriously thinking about getting the IPhone 4. When I hold the RAZR with the death grip it loses 1-2 bars of signal strength but never completely. So this happens on a very reliable phone.

That said, I'm thinking of holding off the purchase and waiting until around November or Christmas to get the IPhone. Mostly because I'm hoping T-Mobile picks it up. If T-Mobile does not pick it up, I'll bite the bullet and go with AT&T.

JimMacFan
Jul 16, 2010, 09:12 PM
Since apple is now gving away bumpers with the iPhone, I wonder if the Droidx will include a free purse to carry it :cool:

My brother has the Droid incredible and it blows our iphones away. Droid X is even better. Iphone is great but the other phones are coming out much more feature packed.

TheMadCow
Jul 16, 2010, 09:12 PM
Does anyone really care? The only people wanking over the whole issue are those with a financial interest in seeing the class action suit go through. It's really a non-issue for 99% of the users. The other 1% should just return their phones and go get a Droid.

firewood
Jul 16, 2010, 09:12 PM
as stated in my previous post I am very happy with my iphone 4
I did notice one strange thing about todays event.

Did anyone else notice the low number he quoted for iphone 4 returns
was for "the largest reseller AT&T" These are not return number for Apple store which I would imagine is responsible for the majority of phones sold. I wonder how many returns Apple received? I am very surprised none of the media folks have picked up on this?

It was asked in the Q&A. Apple store return rates are even lower.

He was brave enough to use the bigger AT&T number to show how small the problem appears to be in reality (e.g. returns : where the consumer's pocketbook meets the road.)

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 09:12 PM
We should agree to disagree. Nothing that i have said is moronic. I am intrigued that you feel that you have to go so far as to call me names. Clever, awesome, quick-witted, hilarious and level headed???? Words that i would not use describe you based on this transaction. It is good that your "returned" your iPhone, even though you are posting as if you still have it. You should let iPhone 4 go now and move on. ;):apple:
Only when dealing with morons.

And there are a lot of words you could have used to describe how I'm coming off in these posts, but I don't think annoying and dramatic fit... Here are some you may want to try next time:

Awesome
Clever
Quick-witted
Hilarious
level-headed

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 09:13 PM
as stated in my previous post I am very happy with my iphone 4
I did notice one strange thing about todays event.

Did anyone else notice the low number he quoted for iphone 4 returns
was for "the largest reseller AT&T" These are not return number for Apple store which I would imagine is responsible for the majority of phones sold. I wonder how many returns Apple received? I am very surprised none of the media folks have picked up on this?

The number was given to represent a percentage of returns. Dissatisfaction is generally the same whether purchased from Apple or ATT with the same return policy in place the return percentage should be close to the same. In any case it's very low.

krzyglue
Jul 16, 2010, 09:13 PM
I can make the bars drop by using the "death grip." But I have yet to drop an actual call as a result of it. Same with my wife, and my friends who also own iPhone 4's. In fact, I haven't met ANY iPhone 4 owner who has dropped a call because of the "death grip." (And believe me, I've tested it with friends... I don't have a fancy lab to put it through the paces, sure, but we're talking about every day use here.)

The Consumer Reports analysis comes off like an effort to make some hooplah. No one pays attention if you like the popular gadget. Bad reviews are what get the "clicks."

If what you propose is true, then absolutely... Criticize all you want, CR. But in my experience, the "death grip" just lowers my reception, it doesn't kill it. And really, THAT'S all that matters.

Sure, I absolutely believe you in regards to dropped calls.

However, what about 3G data? (which would be more susceptible to signal imperfections I imagine, although I'm no expert) Run an internet speedtest (speedtest.net) or something, gripping and not-gripping the phone. According to Steve Jobs, there inevitably will be a decrease, but will it be 20%? 40%? 80%?!

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 09:15 PM
That's "cherry picking" your stats.... Only quote the ones that support your foregone conclusion. ;)

Non sure how returns are processed in US. And since all iPhones in US need an AT&T contract I was just asking. No conclusion offered... data missing... based on the conference can you estimate the global return rate?

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 09:15 PM
Dear consumer reports,
please test other phones in this way.
Thanks.

Dear insidmal,
Read the report and you will see that they did.

Thanks.

LondonCentral
Jul 16, 2010, 09:16 PM
Why cold hearted? His money helped him leap frog many people on a list to get the transplant. If you dont believe that you are naive. Ask the people who died waiting for a transplant while steve got one in weeks. Nice to have money. I wonder if the surgeon got a free Iphone. If he did at least it didn't have the death grip issue.

Don't be hard on him Jim, lots of people are blind to what's staring them in the face. From organ harvesting in Israel to Chinese prisons being used as organ banks. There's a dark market for organs out there. What's more, you never ever hear of specific organ transplants where the wealthy and powerful are concerned. Everything is always done so very quietly, guilt or morality doesn't come into it.

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 09:16 PM
My brother has the Droid incredible and it blows our iphones away. Droid X is even better. Iphone is great but the other phones are coming out much more feature packed.

Glad you liked it. I don't share your positive notion about it though. Clunky comes to mind as an apt description of the incredible.

ChrisTX
Jul 16, 2010, 09:16 PM
Why cold hearted? His money helped him leap frog many people on a list to get the transplant. If you dont believe that you are naive. Ask the people who died waiting for a transplant while steve got one in weeks. Nice to have money. I wonder if the surgeon got a free Iphone. If he did at least it didn't have the death grip issue.
The point is, only someone such as yourself would bring this up. Seriously, give it up, theres no convincing anyone.

Coconutsport
Jul 16, 2010, 09:17 PM
Funny that the only people complaining are the people who don't yet own iPhone4s. Apparently they have no business forming opinions since they are baseless and swayed by media opinion.

octokiddie
Jul 16, 2010, 09:18 PM
I don't think anyone here said they wanted a perfect phone.

Merely, one that either lives up to what other phones do, or yes, even better than them since some of us really want to like Apple.

No other phone out there loses ALL reception and ceases calls and data transfers like the iP4.

We don't care about losing signal, or attenuation. We DO care about losing calls and data transfers just from holding the damn thing.

Well, the fact is: you have a product in your hands which doesn't work.
Solution: just don't use it, because you can't do it anyway

If you want to love Apple, then just DEAL with the fact, that THIS Apple product just doesn't fit your needs and return it! It's totally simple!

rcandre2
Jul 16, 2010, 09:18 PM
I just called CR and will be canceling my subscription. I've had all the iPhone versions except for 3G and used the iPhone 4 for 3 weeks. It's an incredible phone and should be recommended by a huge margin. There are so many incredible features in the iPhone that also work simultaneously in concert with our Apple computers:
Dear Consumer Reports,

Please forward this to the appropriate department. Thank you in advance for this.

I am strongly considering canceling my CR web access for a refund. I am appalled of CR's treatment of Apple and the new iPhone 4. I've had my iPhone 4 for three weeks and it is an incredible phone. Today, CR again refused to recommend the iPhone 4 after Apple stated they are addressing every concern and even offering free cases.

CR is greatly benefitting in the press with their contention with Apple. Further, CR has a poll on it's home page asking if their advice is going to steer people away from buying the iPhone. This is deeply troubling me that CR is trying to bring down this incredibly innovative American company. CR is using this to sell their product.

I can no longer recommend CR or trust any of it's rankings and reviews. *

With Sadness,

Dear Consumer Reports,

After you finally stood up to Apple's faulty iPhone 4 I have finally decided to subscribe to your magazine. I understand why you don't recommend it and I have the same problems that you've clearly demonstrated in your tests. Please forward this to the appropriate department. Thank you so much once again for making light of a complete faulty design flaw in the iPhone 4.

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 09:19 PM
Non sure how returns are processed in US. And since all iPhones in US need an AT&T contract I was just asking. No conclusion offered... data missing... based on the conference can you estimate the global return rate?

You guys are like ants. Plug one small hole and you just keep looking for an even smaller one for entry.

justbuyamac
Jul 16, 2010, 09:19 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A306 Safari/6531.22.7)

"Consumer What"...yeah...experts. Right.

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 09:20 PM
Totally agree with you.

My only problem is people bashing an article and CR that haven't even read it. It annoys the hell out of me.

In a way is what CR do. They are judgmental and so they are judged.

JimMacFan
Jul 16, 2010, 09:20 PM
Glad you liked it. I don't share your positive notion about it though. Clunky comes to mind as an apt description of the incredible.

I agree it is chunky. Still fits in my pocket but not as small as the iphone. Maybe its the american in me.....BIGGER IS BETTER! ;)

Coconutsport
Jul 16, 2010, 09:20 PM
My brother has the Droid incredible and it blows our iphones away. Droid X is even better. Iphone is great but the other phones are coming out much more feature packed.

On paper its specs may be better, but it's still based on buggy OS. And specs don't mean squat when the thing is clunky and assbackward. Android has nowhere near the refinement of iOS4. Maybe someday they'll catch up, but I'm sure Apple will be on their next generation of iOS.

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 09:21 PM
You guys are like ants. Plug one small hole and you just keep looking for an even smaller one for entry.

LOL. Good one.:)

BTW do you have an answer?

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 09:21 PM
HAHAHAHA!!!! :DCrap what am I going to do now, CR does not recommend it and I bought it. It's perfect, i have no issues at all, but CR says they can't recommend it, omg omg omg what to do what to do. I guess i have to bring it back, I mean if CR says it's not going to recommend it, it has to go back!! They know everything, oh wait a sec, the toaster oven i bought that they recommended sucked and broke. The washing machine sucked, the air conditioner sucked. O right, CR sucks, i forgot, phew i guess i can keep my iPhone now.

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 09:22 PM
I agree it is chunky. Still fits in my pocket but not as small as the iphone. Maybe its the american in me.....BIGGER IS BETTER! ;)

And what ever happened to the Hummer?