PDA

View Full Version : Consumer Reports Still Not Recommending iPhone 4




Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5

daxomni
Jul 16, 2010, 09:25 PM
When it comes to objective reviews that are NOT bought or owned by any executive or PR department or competitor Consumer Reports is about the ONLY game in town. The more the Apple fanatics talk of investigating the source of CR's bias the more I laugh (and cry). Go for it, please investigate CR to your heart's content. You might finally learn something about CR and maybe even learn something about your own biases. But then again according to Apple fans only tired old grandmothers care about objectivity, transparency, and introspection. Whose grandmother is sexier than a PR-spewing megalomaniac like Steve Jobs?



liavman
Jul 16, 2010, 09:27 PM
I usually trust CR and I often check it before a major purchase. I think consumer reports have lost their mind in this case. The right wording is, 'We recommend the iPhone 4. Use it with the case provided free of charge by Apple. This recommendation stands till end of September when we will reevaluate our recommendation based on Apple's reevaluation".

I do not know why CR cares if Apple refunds those who already bought third party cases. The recommendation is about tomorrow and not yesterday.

If they had said that as part of their consumer advocacy charter to protect those who paid money to get the third party cases, I understand that. But not as part of their product evaluation.

Nuts!! Just plain nuts!!

cbcc1119
Jul 16, 2010, 09:27 PM
So are they going to ban the other phones that exhibit the same behavior also. No because then they would be realizing they have no clue what they are doing.

BruiserBear
Jul 16, 2010, 09:28 PM
The people that are mad at consumer reports are providing me with much laughter this evening. Keep fighting the good fight for a major corporation. Corporate advocates are much needed in this day and age.

Posted from my iPhone 4.

Portal83
Jul 16, 2010, 09:29 PM
Who cares if Consumer Reports recommends the iPhone 4?

I'll buy one on July 30th and get my free bumper. I'll put it on if I have a problem while holding it naturally and I'll return it if the problem still persists.

Well, that was easy!

dru`
Jul 16, 2010, 09:32 PM
We don't care about losing signal, or attenuation. We DO care about losing calls and data transfers just from holding the damn thing.

:confused: What do you think losing signal or attenuation are about? You and others are screaming well against the hard data presented today. Now, even with millions of naked iPhone 4's, drops are less than 1 more than 3gs per 100 calls. Steve said they're not happy with even that number and will continue to investigate but that's the data. If you don't like your phone, don't want to try it with the free case, return it and MOVE ON.

The Sept 30 date makes perfect sense. By then they'll have loads more data from real world costumers and their cellular partners about drop rates and any problems. That will tell them if the free case is sufficient, if it needs extending more, whether they can do something at the manufacturing point, or, perhaps, they'll have learned something new.

echo44
Jul 16, 2010, 09:33 PM
Wouldn't a better test of the iphone would be to compare it to 3 similar models
in real world use by testing the phones in various locations and log the dropped calls?

42abram
Jul 16, 2010, 09:33 PM
To have these bars drop in NYC, one has to really be gripping the phone, smothering the left side of the phone. REALLY. who really holds a phone like this. This whole time wasting supersized spin of an iPhone story has uS waaaay to concerned with a pretty redundant issue, the phone is not perfect but nothing is. I enjoy it's quality, let's Appreciate and move on. On wifi it works great, what's the problem here, consumer reports needs reports about IT's relevance. Ultimately apple has VERY descent products, hopefully they keep their integrity and also continue to respect the integrity, privacy and humanity of it's consumer base, which happens to be exponentially growing at rates never seen before. Apple has a much wider responsibility as a premium high end formerly niche international computer and tecnology company, now growing into the ubiquitous cell industry which worldwide and enmasse has gotten it's BITTEN apple glowing logo into more hands and minds than ever before...bli ayin hara

Anuba
Jul 16, 2010, 09:34 PM
Argh. I'm torn.

I'm buying the iPhone 4 anyway, I said so from the beginning and I stand by it. I have reservations about condoning half-assed designs by voting for them with my wallet, but... principles be damned, for once.

I also felt a wee bit sorry for Steve today. I think he genuinely believed most of what he said, and free bumpers may be a band-aid but it's an acceptable compromise given that the antenna is what it is and it's not going anywhere until next summer. Consumer Reports is being a little unfair. Not entirely, but a little.

But if I do buy the phone and I do consider Apple's compromise acceptable given the circumstances, I side with the drooling shareholders and the creepiest community on Earth after the Scientologists. The Apple community is a hideous scarecrow in Apple's garden and I don't want to be contaminated by its zombie rabies super-AIDS.

Maybe they'll stay back if I put the iPhone in a Android case? That should work like a garlic necklace, right?

One black 32 GB please.

dru`
Jul 16, 2010, 09:35 PM
The people that are mad at consumer reports are providing me with much laughter this evening. Keep fighting the good fight for a major corporation. Corporate advocates are much needed in this day and age.

Considering Apple adopted Consumer Reports own recommendation - Steve showed a slide quoted CR that "a bumper solved the problem" - it's a douche move of them to not recommend on, in part, a technicality like why doesn't Apple refund cost of 3rd-party cases too which NO ONE would do.

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 09:35 PM
When it comes to objective reviews that are NOT bought or owned by any executive or PR department or competitor Consumer Reports is about the ONLY game in town. The more the Apple fanatics talk of investigating the source of CR's bias the more I laugh (and cry). Go for it, please investigate CR to your heart's content. You might finally learn something about CR and maybe even learn something about your own biases. But then again according to Apple fans only tired old grandmothers care about objectivity, transparency, and introspection. Whose grandmother is sexier than a PR-spewing megalomaniac like Steve Jobs?

And how many believe snoops.com is objective in their reporting as well?

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 09:38 PM
Funny that the only people complaining are the people who don't yet own iPhone4s. Apparently they have no business forming opinions since they are baseless and swayed by media opinion.

This is just plain wrong. If you read the thread you'll notice that there are several people who own or owned an iPh4 with the excessive signal attenuation problem. If you don't read the thread it's you that have no business in commenting about who is posting or who is not.

macguysea
Jul 16, 2010, 09:42 PM
It's just a matter of who pays these kinds of magazines the most that will level who's getting top picks. I do not pay attention to CR for good reason, and you shouldn't either. It's not a matter of what quality products you should be buying, it's a matter of who paid them off the most to get a yay or nay. :mad:

gehrbox
Jul 16, 2010, 09:43 PM
This is just plain wrong. If you read the thread you'll notice that there are several people who own or owned an iPh4 with the excessive signal attenuation problem. If you don't read the thread it's you that have no business in commenting about who is posting or who is not.

Let's be transparent, they said they had an iP4. I could say I have a jet in my front yard and who would know the difference?

ChrisTX
Jul 16, 2010, 09:43 PM
For the record the Droid Incredible is a snoozer. No version of Android is as snappy as iOS.

krzyglue
Jul 16, 2010, 09:45 PM
If Steve's little dog and pony show of cherry-picked statistics and a bumper case can stave off a recall costing hundreds of millions of dollars, then of course it's in Apple's interest to try.

I'm an Apple fanboy, Steve Jobs is my guru, and I love my iPhone 4. I'm not giving it up and I'm not hiding its elegant design inside an ugly piece of rubber.

I also just bought a new Toyota, a company which didn't have a masterfully communicative CEO to talk everyone out of recalls, even in the absence of any data whatsoever that there was a problem. To this day, Toyota never found a problem.

People freak out easily and the press fans the flames to get attention. This crap has been going on for a while now.

Recalls are typically done for safety issues, or when a product simply fails rather completely in a key area. A small loss of signal strength is not recall-worthy.

I subscribe to Consumer Reports. I trust them. They are nonprofit and they go out of their way to be unbiased. They don't recommend the iPhone 4 at this time. I have no problem with that. I need them to be conservative in their recommendations to balance against the hype coming out of company promotions of products. They rated the Jeep Wrangler at the bottom of their list and I bought one anyway and loved it. They were right, it was a horrible car in almost every way. But I still loved it.

I respect Apple. I trust Consumer Reports. And I love my iPhone 4, bar none. Well, maybe not bar none. I'll settle for at least one bar.

So as my Toyota blindly accelerates me to my doom as I death-grip my iPhone 4 and I lose the call with AppleCare in my last seconds of life, I just want everyone to know that I died happy.

I wish I could buy you a beer. I really wish I could.

alphaod
Jul 16, 2010, 09:46 PM
I don't care for Consumer Reports.

I still recommend the iPhone 4 to people and they still buy them. I even show them the signal issue, but if I explain to everyone that it happens on every phone, all of a sudden it's not much of an issue anymore.

macguysea
Jul 16, 2010, 09:47 PM
Keep up the pressure CR! Take the fight to these thieves! All the cell phones I've ever used works fine when holding them in my left hand except the iPhone 4.

You've been brainwashed by the tea party and by the way, that's the most insensitive thing you can do is deface the President's face. It's sick and you need help, just like your racist tea party friends.. btw, I need some tea bagging.

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 09:47 PM
Let's be transparent, they said they had an iP4. I could say I have a jet in my front yard and who would know the difference?

True... even for people that said they have an iPh4 with no problem at all. But assuming everybody is lying defeat the purpose of communication.

varchar
Jul 16, 2010, 09:48 PM
This is really getting annoying with consumer reports. Actually a bit contradictory. You say it is #1 smart phone and you do not recommend.

mstrmac
Jul 16, 2010, 09:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4&feature=player_embedded

The iPhone Antenna Song

Lyrics of the song
there’s an awful lot of hoopla
around the iphone 4 anttenna
when you grip it with the death grip
and you’re call slips away
the media loves a failure
in a string of success
the facts won’t ever matter
if they can make bigger messes
sure i can make it happen
but in terms of daily usage
i’ve yet to drop a call
so this whole damn thing is stupid
and you can call me a fanboy
i’ve been called worse things
but gizmodo just ridiculous
pulling their anti-apple strings
you bought a stolen prototype
get over it and move on
or hey even better
let’s all sing this song

kuaiyouming
Jul 16, 2010, 09:54 PM
.

JayLenochiniMac
Jul 16, 2010, 09:59 PM
All of his "hard data" was completely invalid

How? You think they made up the numbers? Based on the various posts in this forum, you'd think the return rate was way more than 1.7%

fifthworld
Jul 16, 2010, 09:59 PM
in Q&A session they said it was less than AT&T's rate, but they didn't give exact number though

I guess the real question is, what number would satisfy you?


OMG, I can believe I've been so wrong.:o Guess what? I was trying to add return rates from AT&T, Apple Stores, online sales, Best Buy, etc.:eek: Only now I do realize the global return rate is less than 1,7%! :D

wookee
Jul 16, 2010, 10:00 PM
CR are milking this for everything it's worth. The 'can't recommend' headline is pure link bait.

Are people so blind as to realise what CR are doing? all publicity is good publicity and they're milking it dry.. if they recommend it.. no more hits.. no more name in the headlines.. so of course they're not gonna recommend it?!

Apples proved that all phones have the same issue.. and the facts are there in relation to dropped calls compared to previous iphones..

If you don't like the new iphone.. stop the moaning and just swap it in already..

dpinchot
Jul 16, 2010, 10:06 PM
Keep up the pressure CR! Take the fight to these thieves! All the cell phones I've ever used works fine when holding them in my left hand except the iPhone 4.

Please return your iPhone 4 if you do not like it. There is no basic human right to own an iPhone. You, as a consumer can make a choice as to what phone you want to buy. Stop crying and buy a blackberry if you what one. Myself, and 99.95% of iPhone 4 owners will enjoy our new phones. It is by far, the best phone that I have ever had. Period.

octokiddie
Jul 16, 2010, 10:07 PM
Who cares if Consumer Reports recommends the iPhone 4?

I'll buy one on July 30th and get my free bumper. I'll put it on if I have a problem while holding it naturally and I'll return it if the problem still persists.

Well, that was easy!

just what i'm saying!

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 10:07 PM
I seriously think you are a negative person. Good grief, get a life. Complaining seems to be your talent and you are really good at it. Name calling is super mature. A truly clever person would not resort to it but I realize that some people need to have something to bitch about and if they don't they are sure to find something or somebody to focus on. You are like a wall that I have wasted too much time conversing with. I am bored w/ you. :eek:

Here is the post I first responded to:

"Who doesn't put a case on an iPhone??? I am thinking that a smart person would have already done this. I for one have, even though i haven't had any issues. If you don't like it, then return thier iPhone. I think a free bumper is more than any other company would do. The problem with always giving people greatness is that you set yourself up to eventually fail. Maybe I could listen to them bitch if they were trying or have already made a perfect phone. Until then, they are just winey spoiled brats "

And you're calling me a negative person :rolleyes:

Have a great weekend.

weezer160
Jul 16, 2010, 10:10 PM
Good for Consumer Reports. The bumper is nothing but a band-aid. I don't/didn't need a bumper or a case for my 3GS, 3G, 2G. Why for the iPhone 4?

The iPhone is apple's most popular of the four devices. Don't you think 1) its popularity is partially a reason for all the press and 2) because of its popularity, problems that are even present in older are going to be more vulnerable and 3) there is a small probaility that consumer reports is making huge numbers of readers from this?

ski1ski1
Jul 16, 2010, 10:11 PM
How? You think they made up the numbers? Based on the various posts in this forum, you'd think the return rate was way more than 1.7%

My opinion is that many people where just waiting through their 30-day trial period for a fix from Apple. So mentioning the 1.7% return rate is meaningless right now. In a few weeks, the return rates will be more relevant.

And the use of the 0.55% Applecare call rate was irrelevant too. Many people are aware of this issue. Many of these same people know Apple is aware of the issue. So why would the customer who is experiencing this issue call Applecare to report it, if they knew Apple was already aware of it and is working on it. What good would it do ? Does anyone really think every customer who has this issue is reporting it to Applecare ? Does anyone really think even 5% of the customers who have the issue are wasting their time calling Applecare about it ? Why would they call ? Apple knew about the issue, they had no fix at the time, and the customer knew Apple was aware of the issue. That's why stating the Applecare data is misleading. It makes it appear like only 0.55% of their customers have this issue. Which is probably very far from the true percentage. If this was an issue that wasn't in the media, or already acknowledged by Apple, then yes, the customer would call Applecare, because most customers would believe their phone is unique and has an issue.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 10:11 PM
How? You think they made up the numbers? Based on the various posts in this forum, you'd think the return rate was way more than 1.7%

Do you think Apple will show numbers again in a week now that they have made the announcement that every one was holding out for?

I don't think so.

I returned mine Thursday and I wonder if that was even included -- When was the cutoff for that percentage?

notabadname
Jul 16, 2010, 10:12 PM
With over 2 million sold, if just a few percent of people are really having a problem and returning their phones, we would see 60,000 phones returned. We would hear about that. No one is stupid enough to really keep the phone if it is really dropping calls all the time on them.

Bet we don't see a lot of people at the Apple Store returning phones. Hmmmm, I wonder why that is? Maybe very few real owners are experiencing any problems? I know I'm not, and I have had it and used it exclusively as my only phone since day one.

Additionally, when is the last time you have seen an iPhone without a skin or case. I bet at least 9 out of 10 people protect their phone anyway. So for them, the issue doesn't exist.

Finally, everyone has the option to return it, at no cost. Unlke most electronics, with "re-stocking" fees, there is zero loss. If you don't like it, just return it. What grounds are there to complain if you choose to keep a returnable product that you feel doesn't work?

Full of Win
Jul 16, 2010, 10:15 PM
Please return your iPhone 4 if you do not like it. There is no basic human right to own an iPhone. You, as a consumer can make a choice as to what phone you want to buy. Stop crying and buy a blackberry if you what one. Myself, and 99.95% of iPhone 4 owners will enjoy our new phones. It is by far, the best phone that I have ever had. Period.

I made app purchases over the last two years under the assumption that apple would sell modern phones that could be used in both hands. If apple would let me sell, as used, the licenses to my app collection - then I would have already be on an android phone.

Yes, it's a great phone when held in the right hand during a call or data use. However, i think it should be a great phone when held in either hand. I know that may be a crazy thought.

JayLenochiniMac
Jul 16, 2010, 10:18 PM
Do you think Apple will show numbers again in a week now that they have made the announcement that every one was holding out for?

I don't think so.

So you think more people will return their iPhones now that Apple has said there's no defect and provided hard data to support it?

I don't think so.

If anything, more people would return even their working iP4s if Apple admitted there was a design flaw, triggering the equivalent of a recall.

alhedges
Jul 16, 2010, 10:27 PM
Aparently three million+ people do not give a crap Bout you or cr, still purchase the phone, and enjoy all the goodies within...

?

The CR article came out *this week.* After these people bought their phone.

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 10:27 PM
Additionally, when is the last time you have seen an iPhone without a skin or case. I bet at least 9 out of 10 people protect their phone anyway. So for them, the issue doesn't exist.

Finally, everyone has the option to return it, at no cost. Unlke most electronics, with "re-stocking" fees, there is zero loss. If you don't like it, just return it. What grounds are there to complain if you choose to keep a returnable product that you feel doesn't work?

I think a lot of people use their phones without cases (or skins), I have for 3 years. Maybe not a majority, but a decent percentage... Steve Jobs doesn't use a case for his, neither did either of the two gentleman with him at the press conference today.

I already returned my phone, but I am still complaining because I like the Apple brand and I like the Apple products. What I don't like is:

a). Being told it's not a major issue when it is a major issue for me.

b). People telling me I'm lying, exaggerating, or just a big whiner.

c). I already sold my 3G, so now I'm using a crappy phone until I decide what to do. Sure, maybe I shouldn't have sold my 3G so quickly, but who could have predicted the phone would have actual phone issues? -- many other problems I could deal with.

Do you really think a vast majority of people would come on here and complain if they weren't having an issue or didn't even have the phone? Maybe they would, but I would think at least the majority were telling the truth unless there was a big conspiracy :rolleyes:

Orange™
Jul 16, 2010, 10:32 PM
I seriously think you are a negative person. Good grief, get a life. Complaining seems to be your talent and you are really good at it. Name calling is super mature. A truly clever person would not resort to it but I realize that some people need to have something to bitch about and if they don't they are sure to find something or somebody to focus on. You are like a wall that I have wasted too much time conversing with. I am bored w/ you. :eek:

I'm reporting you and rhanley for name calling, maybe a week in the box (Time-Out) will let things cool down between you!!! Repent!!!

tkingart
Jul 16, 2010, 10:33 PM
Anyone remember the boogers that hold cd/dvd sleeves to magazines? try sticking one of those on the gap. From what I understand, it's whenever that gap is in contact on both sides with skin/finger/hand , at least that's what it said in the consumer reports video.

I can't believe that there isn't a simple solution such as a little clear rubber "stopper" with a thin slit that can be placed into that gap, with a small strips both directions. Then people wouldn't have to cover the iPhone4 up with a bumper case.

I'm the same as many, I don't use cases/covers because I love Apple designs, it seems a shame to cover them up.

firewood
Jul 16, 2010, 10:34 PM
With over 2 million sold, if just a few percent of people are really having a problem and returning their phones, we would see 60,000 phones returned. We would hear about that. No one is stupid enough to really keep the phone if it is really dropping calls all the time on them.

Over ten million 3GS's have been sold, and the return rate was a much higher 6%. I guess 3GS owner were less stupid? And we heard a lot more about that far larger problem?

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 10:38 PM
I'm reporting you and rhanley for name calling, maybe a week in the box (Time-Out) will let things cool down between you!!! Repent!!!

Really?

If that was name calling, then you haven't been following these forums very closely.

That was playful poking ;)

JayLenochiniMac
Jul 16, 2010, 10:39 PM
What I don't like is:

a). Being told it's not a major issue when it is a major issue for me.

b). People telling me I'm lying, exaggerating, or just a big whiner.

c). I already sold my 3G, so now I'm using a crappy phone until I decide what to do. Sure, maybe I shouldn't have sold my 3G so quickly, but who could have predicted the phone would have actual phone issues? -- many other problems I could deal with.

Do you really think a vast majority of people would come on here and complain if they weren't having an issue or didn't even have the phone? Maybe they would, but I would think at least the majority were telling the truth unless there was a big conspiracy :rolleyes:

People have returned defective iP4s for working ones, so it's reasonable to conclude there was a bad batch of iP4s. Did you ever attempt this?

Complainers are always louder than the silent, satisfied users. When there were posts after posts about the cracking 3G, you'd think it was a widespread problem too.

charlituna
Jul 16, 2010, 10:48 PM
Good for Consumer Reports. The bumper is nothing but a band-aid. I don't/didn't need a bumper or a case for my 3GS, 3G, 2G. Why for the iPhone 4?

This issue is really not a serious issue. Not to the point of being a tragic design flaw like some are crying. yes it is annoying and sucks but 99% of the victims have ****** reception in general, regardless of the whole bars etc whatnot.

And in such cases the only real fix is to return the phone. Because only ATT can improve their reception quality.

The whole bumper thing is a band aid on a nonexistent boo boo. It's basically being done because folks are so certain that the bumper will fix all. And won't be convinced otherwise. Maybe for a few folks with really sweaty or conductive skin this will be true. but for most it really won't make a huge difference. But the public is insisting so they are going to just do it. And when JoeQP discovers that his reception is still crap and decides to return the phone 60 days into his contract Apple will likely happily take the phone and give him his money back, probably not even charge the restocking fee. But he's liable to get a real CS shock when ATT refuses to waive the ETF since he had more than enough time (in their eyes) to realize the score and return the phone

As for Consumer Reports. They made such a huge deal out of the issue and paraded out their scanty testing sample and questioned methodology. Plus adding in that 'weak reception' note that if they changed their minds now they would look even more idiotic. So of course they won't for anything less than Steve Jobs publicly admitting he is a moron and has no clue what he's doing etc

rhanley
Jul 16, 2010, 10:48 PM
People have returned defective iP4s for working ones, so it's reasonable to conclude there was a bad batch of iP4s. Did you ever attempt this?

Complainers are always louder than the silent, satisfied users. When there were posts after posts about the cracking 3G, you'd think it was a widespread problem too.

I exchanged my phone once (I live 2+ hours from the Apple Store) and had the same issue. After that I chose to return it and "wait it out". I was hoping that may have been the statement from Apple, but now I don't know if I want to go through the trouble again of testing another phone. That's a decision I'll have to make soon.

Concerning the forum uproar, I never even came on the forum before this. I have been visiting macrumors for years on a daily basis (I have a ton of apple products), but never came on the forums because their products have been perfect and I've never had an issue. I'm pretty techie, so I don't need to go to forums to troubleshoot issues and such...

It was only after I experienced an issue with my iphone4 that I came onto the forums, and I feel that's the same for many others. I was surprised to see many other people with the same issue, but then more surprised to see all the naysayers. So, you're definitely right about the complainers, but it's at least for a good reason in this case.. at least for me ;)

But there are a lot of people griping about this issue, and maybe some are fakes, but I just don't see people reading these stories on other major news sites, then coming to macrumors (no offense) to gripe about an issue they don't really have, or can only force by holding the phone differently than they do... They are commenting on those sites (gizmodo, consumer reports, cnn, etc..)... But, maybe I'm wrong.. maybe they search out any forum to stir up trouble, I don't know. I just feel like the people that visit this site have probably been a fan of Apple for a while, but I am far from a forum expert ;).. Maybe there are a lot of trolls out there :)

SAD*FACED*CLOWN
Jul 16, 2010, 10:54 PM
Just got my iPhone 4 today...and I can vehemently recommend it..I've had all the previous iPhone models and I think without a doubt this is the iPhone everyone has been waiting for..."you go! Hurry up and buy!"

SAD*FACED*CLOWN
Jul 16, 2010, 10:56 PM
Oh, and I can hold mine any way that I want with no signal issues :)

BlondeBuddhist
Jul 16, 2010, 10:58 PM
I don't recommend Consumer Reports.

THIS

Good Grief. This is uproar of "your holding it wrong" reminds me of how trendy it became to say "**** Bush" Everyone wants a slice, and makes sure to name drop as often as it can. By "not" recommending the iPhone 4, companies are actually driving MORE curiosity into individuals to in fact TRY Apple's device rather than veer away. Why do I say this? Well, to call a product the best of it's kind, then not recommend it is a bit juvenile and unreliable to say the least.

By saying "this is a good start", CR is clearly leaving it's Apple iPhone 4 door open, in hopes of getting to name drop (for relevancy), and continue it's stalking. Bet me $100 that on the white release CR has something to say about the company. Another $100 after September 30th. Then $100 for good measure when Apple sells more than the 3GS (which they WILL). It's a ploy, and a rather pathetic one at that.

When your as dominate as Apple is, it's certainly true that most press is good press. This press conference is proof of that. Continuation of Apple (and in turn record breaking sales) isn't going to "fix" the phone the way you wish (which CR doesn't specify). Why would a company fix something that is making them a killing? If it's not broken don't.. you get it..

Blonde Buddhist

charlituna
Jul 16, 2010, 10:59 PM
I can not recommend Consumer Reports due to their flawed and inadequate testing methodologies when it comes to iPhone 4.

Exactly 3 out of 3 million units is NOT an adequate sample for anything but anecdote. Particularly when they come from the same area at the same time. And then there's the comments from engineers that how they did the tests is unreliable

Add to this the whole one half of one percent and the less than 25k returns. And the total lack of massive issues reported outside of ATT and it's hard to call this a major hardware issue. Because if it was, more folks would have problems and it wouldn't be isolated to just ATT customers

a.gomez
Jul 16, 2010, 10:59 PM
why would they? apple did not fix the phone, they put a silly rubber around it :rolleyes:

BlondeBuddhist
Jul 16, 2010, 11:00 PM
Really?

If that was name calling, then you haven't been following these forums very closely.

That was playful poking ;) Good Luck with that "playful poking"

I was suspended a week for saying beamers was acting like an imbecile and looking like one. Didn't actually even say he was one. Just saying.

Blonde Buddhist

azurehi
Jul 16, 2010, 11:00 PM
It's just a matter of who pays these kinds of magazines the most that will level who's getting top picks. I do not pay attention to CR for good reason, and you shouldn't either. It's not a matter of what quality products you should be buying, it's a matter of who paid them off the most to get a yay or nay. :mad:

Proof Please

dogie678
Jul 16, 2010, 11:01 PM
Consumer Reports is OLD and IRRELEVANT.

ChrisTX
Jul 16, 2010, 11:01 PM
Someone needs to set up a poll on this site. Yes and No answer nothing else. Yes I am having signal issues, No, my phone is working fine. Not scientific but it might shed more light onto this.

integlspwr
Jul 16, 2010, 11:01 PM
sorry if this has been posted

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1564/testinglab.jpg

BlondeBuddhist
Jul 16, 2010, 11:01 PM
why would they? apple did not fix the phone, they put a silly rubber around it :rolleyes:
It beats teaching abstinence

Musocat
Jul 16, 2010, 11:01 PM
The staff at CR could loosely be called journalists. They sure as hell are not engineers. As for anything mechanical, they are just a bunch of dilettantes.

Their concept of whether or not a test is scientific is whether the other five journalist/dilettantes in the room agree that the test might be good.

They do not have an anechoic chamber - they probably don't even know what anechoic means. Apple has, what, 17? At a cost of, what, $100 Million? And how many degreed engineers to use them?

I came to the conclusion that Consumer Reports was full of $h!t years ago... when I bought Ford pickup truck against their advice. Because the two previous Toyotas I bought (an '85 and an '89) weren't so great. The Ford pickup I bought has lasted 10 years longer than the Toyotas, and it's got 350K miles on the original engine and transmission, and even the original refrigerant in the air conditioning system. The only difference was that Toyota sent me reams of junk mail telling me to "vote them all fives" after I bought, and Ford only sent me mail stating they were ready to help if there were any problems. They Toyotas croaked. The poorly-rated Ford is still going 14 years later, no thanks to CR's lousy $h!t advice.

Stupid a$$holes at CR apparently voted Toyota "all fives" just like the junk mail told them to. Stupid a$$hole dilettantes, they are apparently susceptible to hype, like junk mail and idiotic bloggers -why?- because they are not scientists. They are journalists. And they are stupid fu*ks trying to be relevant. No offense to real journalists, by the way.

rcandre2
Jul 16, 2010, 11:04 PM
Oh, and I can hold mine any way that I want with no signal issues :)

Hold what? If you can hold it any way you want it must not be an iPhone 4.

dflowerz
Jul 16, 2010, 11:05 PM
Love the iPhone4. Had the antenna issue. Bought a bumper. Problem solved. Phone is great. Yes would be nice if they did a redesign to eliminate the problem and eventually they will.......to repeat what's been said a lot already....it just a phone! BTW, Consumer Reports rates the iPhone4 at the top but does not recommend it???? Yeah whatever. I have found them to be marginally useful when buying stuff like DVD players and TVs. I wonder how many people actually care what they think about smart phones?

dogie678
Jul 16, 2010, 11:07 PM
0.55% iPhone 4 users complained about the phone

1.7% return rate - 1/3 of 3GS

Dropped Calls = < 1 more per 100



THIS IS A NON-ISSUE to 99% of iPhone 4 owners.

rcandre2
Jul 16, 2010, 11:09 PM
sorry if this has been posted

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1564/testinglab.jpg


It really is a shame. $100 million and the phone's antenna doesn't work.

dogie678
Jul 16, 2010, 11:10 PM
It really is a shame. $100 million and the phone's antenna doesn't work.

and yet it's still better than your piece of crap Android phone.

a.gomez
Jul 16, 2010, 11:10 PM
It beats teaching abstinence

si, that never works...

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 11:18 PM
rhanly has no life. he is only here toannoy the crap out of people. Cyber bully.People have returned defective iP4s for working ones, so it's reasonable to conclude there was a bad batch of iP4s. Did you ever attempt this?

Complainers are always louder than the silent, satisfied users. When there were posts after posts about the cracking 3G, you'd think it was a widespread problem too.

BlondeBuddhist
Jul 16, 2010, 11:21 PM
Consumer Reports has a lot to say the obvious minority of people having an issue. So after thinking on this, I can chalk this up as an example of how NOT listening to these clowns has benefited my decisions. I love my iPhone 4. If I followed their recommendation I wouldn't own it.

Steve said hard data many times today. In fact it was the phrase I heard most. I want some hard data in regards to how many people didn't buy an iPhone 4 based upon Consumer Reports advice. After we count the zeros to the right of the decimal and figure out what thousandth of a percent it is, we can petition their abolishment from the newsstand.

Blonde Buddhist

HLdan
Jul 16, 2010, 11:22 PM
it's fantastic for someone to stand up to Apple for once to actually point out flaws.

Too often when reviewers be smitten by the design of Apple products and forgot what is really important sometimes.

GOOD FOR YOU! Consumer Report,

You must be a Consumer Reports employee.

Full of Win
Jul 16, 2010, 11:24 PM
sorry if this has been posted

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1564/testinglab.jpg

At least CR shows you the phone display in its test methodology. Also, Apple has a stake in if you believing them, CR does not. Clicking them does not help them gain revenue, since they don't do ads to stay impartial.

Also, just because a lab looks big and impressive means nothing if those doing the testing have an agenda to save Apple BILLIONS.

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 11:25 PM
haha!!! I am totally cool. Is Tattle Tale name calling?:pReally?

If that was name calling, then you haven't been following these forums very closely.

That was playful poking ;)

hissyfit
Jul 16, 2010, 11:27 PM
:p? haha!!! I am totally cool. Is Tattle Tale name calling?I'm reporting you and rhanley for name calling, maybe a week in the box (Time-Out) will let things cool down between you!!! Repent!!!

rcandre2
Jul 16, 2010, 11:28 PM
and yet it's still better than your piece of crap Android phone.

I've had every iphone since the the first in 2007. They were all the best until this piece POS.

charlituna
Jul 16, 2010, 11:28 PM
If it is over a year clearly the 3 gs would have a higher percent complaint/return rate.*



the 3gs was selling continuously throughout said year. so even if folks were complaining or returning it, the total units is changing and thus the rate could still be close to the same.

So he states that there is less than one drop call for every 100 when you compared the 3 gs when it was released to when the iphone 4 when it was released.


Not what he said at all. He said that the iphone 4 drops one more call per 100 than the 3gs. So if, for example, the 3gs dropped an average of 1 call in 100, the 4 drops 2.

And as a friend of mine pointed out. the iphone 4 sales have been so huge compared to the 3gs etc that one has to wonder if that is part of the issue.

As he put it. Take an empty room, said your living room. Put two people at opposite corners. Have them talk at their normal voices. They can likely hear each other fine. Now add two more people talking to each other. It's a little harder to hear. Add two more. Then more, then more, then more. The more people in the room, the harder it is for those two people in the corners to hear.

Thats basically congestion in a cell tower. In some areas, iphone 4 sales may have doubled the iphones in the area. And there were already quite a few 3gs people, and non iphone people in the room.


Algorithm incorrect. What. You are telling me that a company that produces and sells as many phones as apple made a mistake in the algorithm.

According to the information I have seen, Apple didn't write the algorithm. ATT provided it to them. And they never had reason to question it until all this hype. They looked and saw that the numbers were as good as they could or should be. So Apple corrected the issue.

But understand, the bars are not now and have never been about reception. They are about signal strength or basically distance to a tower. They don't read how congested the tower is.


In conclusion steve jobs is losing respect from many.

And just how many people did you survey to come up with that conclusion. ANd was it purely random or did you go to place you know have tons of Apple Haters and merely ask them if the press conference changed their hate.

Seriously your assumption is as bad as Consumer Reports study of 3 iphones to determine that the whole line is totally flawed.

marksman
Jul 16, 2010, 11:32 PM
My opinion is that many people where just waiting through their 30-day trial period for a fix from Apple. So mentioning the 1.7% return rate is meaningless right now. In a few weeks, the return rates will be more relevant.

And the use of the 0.55% Applecare call rate was irrelevant too. Many people are aware of this issue. Many of these same people know Apple is aware of the issue. So why would the customer who is experiencing this issue call Applecare to report it, if they knew Apple was already aware of it and is working on it. What good would it do ? Does anyone really think every customer who has this issue is reporting it to Applecare ? Does anyone really think even 5% of the customers who have the issue are wasting their time calling Applecare about it ? Why would they call ? Apple knew about the issue, they had no fix at the time, and the customer knew Apple was aware of the issue. That's why stating the Applecare data is misleading. It makes it appear like only 0.55% of their customers have this issue. Which is probably very far from the true percentage. If this was an issue that wasn't in the media, or already acknowledged by Apple, then yes, the customer would call Applecare, because most customers would believe their phone is unique and has an issue.

Apple has said there is no issue. So anyone who didn't call Applecare when they claim their phone does not work is dumb.

BlondeBuddhist
Jul 16, 2010, 11:33 PM
the 3gs was selling continuously throughout said year. so even if folks were complaining or returning it, the total units is changing and thus the rate could still be close to the same.



Not what he said at all. He said that the iphone 4 drops one more call per 100 than the 3gs. So if, for example, the 3gs dropped an average of 1 call in 100, the 4 drops 2.

And as a friend of mine pointed out. the iphone 4 sales have been so huge compared to the 3gs etc that one has to wonder if that is part of the issue.

As he put it. Take an empty room, said your living room. Put two people at opposite corners. Have them talk at their normal voices. They can likely hear each other fine. Now add two more people talking to each other. It's a little harder to hear. Add two more. Then more, then more, then more. The more people in the room, the harder it is for those two people in the corners to hear.

Thats basically congestion in a cell tower. In some areas, iphone 4 sales may have doubled the iphones in the area. And there were already quite a few 3gs people, and non iphone people in the room.



According to the information I have seen, Apple didn't write the algorithm. ATT provided it to them. And they never had reason to question it until all this hype. They looked and saw that the numbers were as good as they could or should be. So Apple corrected the issue.

But understand, the bars are not now and have never been about reception. They are about signal strength or basically distance to a tower. They don't read how congested the tower is.



And just how many people did you survey to come up with that conclusion. ANd was it purely random or did you go to place you know have tons of Apple Haters and merely ask them if the press conference changed their hate.

Seriously your assumption is as bad as Consumer Reports study of 3 iphones to determine that the whole line is totally flawed.

Good Post

MacinDoc
Jul 16, 2010, 11:33 PM
Are people so blind as to realise what CR are doing? all publicity is good publicity and they're milking it dry.. if they recommend it.. no more hits.. no more name in the headlines.. so of course they're not gonna recommend it?!

Apples proved that all phones have the same issue.. and the facts are there in relation to dropped calls compared to previous iphones..

If you don't like the new iphone.. stop the moaning and just swap it in already..
Agreed. This is a much bigger goldmine than Giz found with its stolen iP4. And CR does have a history of distorting test results (http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/consumer-reports-testing-scandal-its_25.html) of notable new models (http://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-a-black-eye-for-consumer-reports/) to boost subscriptions.

ski1ski1
Jul 16, 2010, 11:33 PM
sorry if this has been posted

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1564/testinglab.jpg

Yeah, why not trust the testing of the manufacturer of a flawed product over the testing of an independent source. With that 100 million lab, how did they miss this flaw during all that high-tech testing ? This flaw was first discovered in less then 24 hours by it's customers. I guess there is no need for the FDA to approve drugs either. We should just trust the opinion and testing of the drug manufacturer.

BlondeBuddhist
Jul 16, 2010, 11:38 PM
Agreed. This is a much bigger goldmine than Giz found with its stolen iP4. And CR does have a history of distorting test results (http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/consumer-reports-testing-scandal-its_25.html) of notable new models (http://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-a-black-eye-for-consumer-reports/) to boost subscriptions. And here I thought Consumer Reports was just looking out for my well being. I can't believe they want to actually sell magazines!

/sarcasm

firewood
Jul 16, 2010, 11:38 PM
Are people so blind as to realise what CR are doing? all publicity is good publicity and they're milking it dry..

And so is Apple. This "bad press" over a fairly insignificant problem will probably cause more total iPhones to be sold over the long run. Even with Apple's cash, it's hard to buy this much PR attention.

firewood
Jul 16, 2010, 11:43 PM
I guess there is no need for the FDA to approve drugs either. We should just trust the opinion and testing of the drug manufacturer.

I'll give you 3 guesses who organises all those drug trials and submits all the statistics and data from those tests to the FDA.

.Andy
Jul 16, 2010, 11:45 PM
It really is a shame. $100 million and the phone's antenna doesn't work.
"Brilliant engineering"

cmaier
Jul 16, 2010, 11:48 PM
Apple has said there is no issue. So anyone who didn't call Applecare when they claim their phone does not work is dumb.

Right. Because if 99% of purchasers had called applecare, apple would have presented that statistic today.

ski1ski1
Jul 16, 2010, 11:49 PM
I'll give you 3 guesses who organises all those drug trials and submits all the statistics and data from those tests to the FDA.

True, but the drug testing is done by independent doctors. And the FDA is presented with very thorough data. All we were presented with were displays of bars, when a overly hugh hand was smothering different phones. No db data, no upload/download data rates, etc. Very simplistic.

neutrino23
Jul 16, 2010, 11:57 PM
I just discovered that if I hold my finger over the camera lens then the photos come out really dark. I tried this on two different phones and got the same result. Sounds like an engineering defect to me.

Suggestions:
1. Duct tape my fingers together so they don't cover the lens.
2. Apple should design a free bumper that prevents dummies like me from touching the lens.



PS: Not my original idea. Saw this on another site.

ski1ski1
Jul 16, 2010, 11:58 PM
I just discovered that if I hold my finger over the camera lens then the photos come out really dark. I tried this on two different phones and got the same result. Sounds like an engineering defect to me.

Suggestions:
1. Duct tape my fingers together so they don't cover the lens.
2. Apple should design a free bumper that prevents dummies like me from touching the lens.



PS: Not my original idea. Saw this on another site.

Oh yeah, the classic strawman argument. Good job !!! lol

MacinDoc
Jul 16, 2010, 11:59 PM
At least CR shows you the phone display in its test methodology. Also, Apple has a stake in if you believing them, CR does not. Clicking them does not help them gain revenue, since they don't do ads to stay impartial.

Also, just because a lab looks big and impressive means nothing if those doing the testing have an agenda to save Apple BILLIONS.
Aside from the hundreds of thousands of dollars CR has allegedly received from special interest groups, in violation of its own stated poplicies, its only source of income is subscriptions. Which, one would expect, would be significantly increased as a result of the huge increase in traffic to this site as a result of the AntennaGate controversy. So, who did you say had the most to gain from this?

If you need additional evidence to call into question the validity of CR's claims, you could check out the blog from this electromagnetic engineer (http://mobileanalyst.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/iphone-4-report-consumer-reports-study-is-full-of-crap/). Finally, you might want to read the article published by Anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2), which showed that although the iP4 was more susceptible to attenuation than the iP3, it also had better reception for weak signals than the previous model.

kuaiyouming
Jul 17, 2010, 12:00 AM
.

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 12:03 AM
Right. Because if 99% of purchasers had called applecare, apple would have presented that statistic today.
Yeah but there would have been way more than .55%

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 12:05 AM
I was waiting until the press conference to make a decision
There, fixed!

cmaier
Jul 17, 2010, 12:06 AM
Yeah but there would have been way more than .55%

You miss my point.

If the number was way more than .55%, we'd never know the number.

rtdunham
Jul 17, 2010, 12:07 AM
go figure, I never listen to consumer reports anyway......grandma's and 50+ yr olds do.


yep, no point in listening to lab and field test comparisons. those dumb grannies and 50+ year olds!

ferrous
Jul 17, 2010, 12:13 AM
Not happy with the case/bumper.
I can't use the craddle or my bose speakers unless I remove the case or bumper crap each time. If you ever saw those bumbers, they are cheap piece of thick rubber. :p

Plutonius
Jul 17, 2010, 12:13 AM
Keep up the pressure CR! Take the fight to these thieves! All the cell phones I've ever used works fine when holding them in my left hand except the iPhone 4.

Why didn't you return it and didn't a bumper case work for you ?

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 12:16 AM
You miss my point.

If the number was way more than .55%, we'd never know the number.
Fair enough, but theres no way that everyone else was waiting for this announcement. Guaranteed, most people like myself just aren't having any problems.

cocky jeremy
Jul 17, 2010, 12:17 AM
How can you take Consumer Reports seriously when they rate the iPhone 4 the highest smartphone ever, yet they don't recommend it? Idiots.

rhanley
Jul 17, 2010, 12:17 AM
Good Luck with that "playful poking"

I was suspended a week for saying beamers was acting like an imbecile and looking like one. Didn't actually even say he was one. Just saying.

Blonde Buddhist

I guess it just takes the 'wrong' person to read a post and report... I'll ride it out to the end ;) ... even if the end is near :mad:

dm2
Jul 17, 2010, 12:17 AM
It really is a shame. $100 million and the phone's antenna doesn't work.
it does work for me:cool:

charlituna
Jul 17, 2010, 12:17 AM
Based on 1.7 million sales on launch day, you'd think Apple would have sold more than 3 million in 3 weeks unless sales have slowed down.

Sales have slowed down because stock levels went down. Not demand. At least not in LA where 5 out of the 5 stores I went to, just this week, said it's unlikely anyone would be able to walk in and buy an iphone 4 for at least a month since the wait lists are so long (although they wouldn't give me actual numbers)

rhanley
Jul 17, 2010, 12:25 AM
Oh yeah, the classic strawman argument. Good job !!! lol

haha.. nice!

JayLenochiniMac
Jul 17, 2010, 12:27 AM
The 1.7% number is tainted. Jobs said that the data came 3 days ago. That's only about 2.5 weeks into the return window iPhone 4 for the earliest of recipients. Many people were also waiting until the press conference to make a decision and people will usually return something at the end of a window (i.e. close to 30 days), not at the beginning. Also, iPhone 4 was compared to the 3GS, which as been around for over a year. The mere difference in ranges alone invalidates the comparison, while the small time sample on the iPhone 4 invalidates the 1.7 figure. So basically, the number reported is meaningless. I guarantee that tonight the number is already higher than 1.7 and that it will rise above that mark over the lifespan of the iPhone 4.

The keynote slide had the following: "ATT return rates for early shipments." They're not stupid enough to compare apples and oranges.

Hunabku
Jul 17, 2010, 12:35 AM
Who cares?
I listen to the reality distortion field.

Of course you're trolling. Collectively you trolls are doing far worse than distorting reality - you obliterated it completely in a flame of apple hate mixed with an inordinate amount of juvenile deliquecy - we got to come up for a new phrase for how all these bamboons see reality.

macnewbie13
Jul 17, 2010, 12:36 AM
free cases? apple is so scraping the bottom of the barrel. Of course CR shouldn't change their recommendation. If you have to get an accessory for the product to work like it is "supposed to" in the first place, then I don't see why that would change their recommendation. Say what you will about the whole issue of this being something for smartphones and whatever unavoidable problems, that still does not make it relevant for the people reviewing it. If it is something unavoidable in the way it's designed, then of course they shouldn't recommend it!

+1 This.

Luckily I am one of those iPhone 4 owners who can replicate the problem but have not experienced any negative effects, yet. But if I did experience more dropped calls or data loss while naturally holding my phone and trying to use it like it is suppose to be used, I would not be completely satisfied with this resolution. Yes a case does solve the problem, but I should not have to use a case to use a product as it is advertised.

ferrous
Jul 17, 2010, 12:48 AM
Why Apple doesn't just fix the damned iPhone 4. It drops calls, period, any way you look at it, iPhone 4 drops a lot of calls!

Sure Apple is not perfect, neither is iPhone 4.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/17/rim-co-ceos-pull-no-punches-responding-to-apples-antenna-statem/

aristotle
Jul 17, 2010, 12:50 AM
* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k

* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag

* Droid Incredible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk

* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH9_A5jw

* Nexus One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA

* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA

* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54

* Nexus One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g

* Android G1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M


* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem):
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=34ae2c179184c33e&hl=en


There are plenty of counter examples for not only those phones but also the iPhone 4 by people with strong coverage who cannot make their phone fail. As SJ in Apple press conference noted, the formula they used before made it seem like there was a dramatic drop when it was already a weak signal to begin with.

Will Consumer Reports also recommend not getting these phones too or are they biased?

mixxiah
Jul 17, 2010, 12:56 AM
I used to subscribe to them, but found their testing techniques to be rather unconvincing and results to be opinionated and lacking true objectivity. I remember in the 90's they used to diss apple products all the time - it was obvious to me then that none of them actually ever used a Mac - they were all PC users. So screw them!

valkraider
Jul 17, 2010, 12:58 AM
Numerical fail.

Oops. Extra zeros.

thetoad30
Jul 17, 2010, 12:59 AM
:confused: What do you think losing signal or attenuation are about? You and others are screaming well against the hard data presented today. Now, even with millions of naked iPhone 4's, drops are less than 1 more than 3gs per 100 calls. Steve said they're not happy with even that number and will continue to investigate but that's the data. If you don't like your phone, don't want to try it with the free case, return it and MOVE ON.

You can have signal attenuation and still keep the call going. Just because the signal strength decreases doesn't mean you lose the connection. That's what I meant by not being worried about attenuation. I'm not expecting to hold any phone without causing some signal loss, but total loss is a joke.

And good for him with the data. I don't exactly trust AT&T to report dropped calls accurately, merely because I don't know how they record them as a drop. I'm an engineer, and I need all the data to make a decision. When Apple or AT&T hide behind "It's proprietary", I know in engineer speak (my company does the same thing) that means that the numbers have been screwed with and we don't want you to know how.

We're all screaming against the hard data because everyone is saying it doesn't exist or that it isn't a big deal, when it really is. Just because you cannot see it or aren't affected by it, doesn't make you automatically right.

This issue occurs, and if some day you're affected by it you would be pretty pissed too.

dfctedge
Jul 17, 2010, 01:05 AM
1.- How much of a bribe did the magazine Consumer Reports received to talk and not to recommend of something that works?
2.- Consumer Reports is meant to say ¨Consumer¨ and not a one guy deal.
3.- Consumer Reports is just saying what ever they can, just to make a huge noise around a good product with a 0.55% of customer ¨Questions¨ through Apple Care and with a very low return rate.
4.- I recommend to readers not to trust any recommendations from ¨Consumer Reports¨ because it is not a reliable source. It is just a magazine that wants ¨Some¨ more sales of it. They do not have the specific tools to test and also it is a one man decision, taking out any other real customer reviews.

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/07/16/172255-consumer_reports_banner.jpg

Consumer Reports, the prominent ratings and reviews magazine, is still declining to recommend (http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/07/apple-iphone-4-iphone4-free-bumpers-for-antenna-problem-signal-loss-issue-flaw-press-conference-news-consumer-reports-ratings.html) the iPhone 4 following Apple's offer of free cases (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/apple-to-offer-free-cases-for-iphone-4-customers/) for all iPhone 4 customers through September 30th. The magazine touched off a firestorm in the mainstream media earlier this week by not recommending (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-cant-recommend-iphone-4-due-to-signal-issues/) Apple's iPhone 4 due to antenna issues despite the device topping its rankings of smartphones. The uproar lead to today's press conference at Apple's headquarters where the company addressed the antenna issues and made its offer of free cases for users.

Article Link: Consumer Reports Still Not Recommending iPhone 4 (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/)

JAT
Jul 17, 2010, 01:08 AM
Meh....

Apple....

Love.....

Hate.....

Fanboy.....

Consumer Reports.....

Antenna....

Steve.....

AT&T......

Android....

Bumper.....

Gizmodo....

Evo.....

Verizon......

chrono1081
Jul 17, 2010, 01:17 AM
go figure, I never listen to consumer reports anyway......grandma's and 50+ yr olds do.

+1

Long ago I used to work at Circuit City and Best Buy and people always came in with their Consumer Reports magazines and honestly most of the time that magazine recommended junk. Sadly, because it was "Consumer Reports" vs the commissioned salesguy (when I was at CCity, BBY didn't have commission) people would listen to consumer reports because they thought I was trying to sell them something that made me more money. (In reality I wanted to sell them something they wouldn't return since returns cost me money!)

Needless to say a good 80% of what that magazine recommended was the stuff that got returned. At least in the consumer electronics section.

kironin
Jul 17, 2010, 01:21 AM
I used to subscribe to them, but found their testing techniques to be rather unconvincing and results to be opinionated and lacking true objectivity. I remember in the 90's they used to diss apple products all the time - it was obvious to me then that none of them actually ever used a Mac - they were all PC users. So screw them!

Apple products deserved being dissed in the 90's. In recent years, they given many Apple products high ratings.

I find your reasons for dissing CR to be unconvincing. :p

AldoRay
Jul 17, 2010, 01:24 AM
go figure, I never listen to consumer reports anyway......grandma's and 50+ yr olds do.

Excuse me! I'm 53 years old and way to smart to read Consumer Reports. I subscribed to their magazine for several years, and I'm sorry to say, I just can't recommend it at this point.

chrono1081
Jul 17, 2010, 01:24 AM
Why Apple doesn't just fix the damned iPhone 4.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/17/rim-co-ceos-pull-no-punches-responding-to-apples-antenna-statem/

Because there is nothing wrong with it. Plain and simple.

If you actually READ things you see you will see when people are able to make these bars go down they don't lose the call.

The iPhone does exactly what every other phone out there does and anyone who sells or sold cell phones in the past (me) will tell you the same thing. Like I said before, its "cool" to hate apple so people do it.

AldoRay
Jul 17, 2010, 01:30 AM
Not happy with the case/bumper.
I can't use the craddle or my bose speakers unless I remove the case or bumper crap each time. If you ever saw those bumbers, they are cheap piece of thick rubber. :p

If you don't like it, then return it. Everbody sing along.......

AldoRay
Jul 17, 2010, 01:35 AM
I've had every iphone since the the first in 2007. They were all the best until this piece POS.

If you don't like it, then return it. Once again everybody, sing along....

dogie678
Jul 17, 2010, 01:36 AM
Because there is nothing wrong with it. Plain and simple.

If you actually READ things you see you will see when people are able to make these bars go down they don't lose the call.

The iPhone does exactly what every other phone out there does and anyone who sells or sold cell phones in the past (me) will tell you the same thing. Like I said before, its "cool" to hate apple so people do it.

exactly. This is a non-issue to 99% of iPhone 4 owners.

I've been using my iPhone 4 for 3 weeks and I love it.

Chwisch87
Jul 17, 2010, 01:36 AM
* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k

* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag

* Droid Incredible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk

* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH9_A5jw

* Nexus One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA

* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA

* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54

* Nexus One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g

* Android G1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M


* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem):
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=34ae2c179184c33e&hl=en


There are plenty of counter examples for not only those phones but also the iPhone 4 by people with strong coverage who cannot make their phone fail. As SJ in Apple press conference noted, the formula they used before made it seem like there was a dramatic drop when it was already a weak signal to begin with.

Will Consumer Reports also recommend not getting these phones too or are they biased?

Omg will everyone stop coping and pasting this crap. the issue is not the death grip but in fact that if you put your finger on one spot, you loose all signal in a lower signal area. THAT IS THE ISSUE! Not trying to cover up the entire antenna.

This is the difference.. try to see through the reality distortion field.

BobVB
Jul 17, 2010, 01:37 AM
If you don't like it, then return it. Everbody sing along.......
As you know for many people the opportunity to return is past.

TheAppleGeek
Jul 17, 2010, 01:38 AM
go figure, I never listen to consumer reports anyway......grandma's and 50+ yr olds do.

My Grandparents (and Dad) has called me countless times about what Consumer Reports has to say about the iPhone 4. Even though I tell them the issue is not as widespread as it's made out to be, they respond, "But Consumer Reports is always right."

AldoRay
Jul 17, 2010, 01:43 AM
As you know for many people the opportunity to return is past.

September 2010 has passed?

chrono1081
Jul 17, 2010, 01:43 AM
As you know for many people the opportunity to return is past.

No its not. It was released on July 24th. If they got it on that day they can still return it up to July 23rd.

kironin
Jul 17, 2010, 01:47 AM
+1
Long ago I used to work at Circuit City and Best Buy and people always came in with their Consumer Reports magazines and honestly most of the time that magazine recommended junk. Sadly, because it was "Consumer Reports" vs the commissioned salesguy (when I was at CCity, BBY didn't have commission) people would listen to consumer reports because they thought I was trying to sell them something that made me more money. (In reality I wanted to sell them something they wouldn't return since returns cost me money!)



good point but the value of Consumer Reports really isn't in the specific reviews, it's the trends in the data mining from customers about different brands that are revealed over time. It's looking at the repair rates etc. Some times it's very hard to come up with appropriate lab tests for estimates of real world performance and sometimes it comes down to personal preference and usually it's fairly obvious and one can factor that in how much to take their results in to account. I find they do pretty good with kitchen appliances. The car data is generally good. And when it comes to electronics, it's most useful in flagging the really bad apples or pointing out that the performance is roughly the same for something much less in price.

Why do you expect a customer to have a clue that you even know what you are talking about. Long gone are the days of small electronic stores with enthusiast owners that built long term relationships with customers.

There really isn't much point in dissing CR here, because they did give the iPhone 4 the highest ratings. Apple hasn't offered a permanent solution to the hardware design flaw and therefore it makes complete sense for CR not to change their recommendations. If the reader decides they can live with the flaw in trade for phone features they want to have then that's fine.

AldoRay
Jul 17, 2010, 01:48 AM
No its not. It was released on July 24th. If they got it on that day they can still return it up to July 23rd.

So the opportunity to return an iPhone 4 has passed for whom? I'm just saying, if you don't like it , return it.

lshaner
Jul 17, 2010, 01:51 AM
Consumer reports should just go crawl back under their rock and keep their bad science to themselves.

kironin
Jul 17, 2010, 01:56 AM
My Grandparents (and Dad) has called me countless times about what Consumer Reports has to say about the iPhone 4. Even though I tell them the issue is not as widespread as it's made out to be, they respond, "But Consumer Reports is always right."

and that's when you point out they did give it the highest ratings,
and remind them CR is a consumer advocacy group as well as a testing group, they did their job in prodding Apple to respond and clarify to consumers what is going on. Apple did screw up, and is now willing to refund you money completely if their screw up affects your user experience to the point that the rest of what the phone is not enough.

BobVB
Jul 17, 2010, 01:56 AM
No its not. It was released on July 24th. If they got it on that day they can still return it up to July 23rd.
 didn't sell all the iPhone 4s, 's policies has nothing to do with other retailers. AT&T starts counting from the activation of the new contract, the day it was ordered, 15 June. Their customers never had the opportunity for a full refund in the first place and most first day orders can no longer cancel their contract without a multi-hundred dollar Early Termination Fee.

So the mantra of 'just return it' is disingenuous at best since hundreds of thousands can't.

(now cue the people moving the goal posts and saying the fact that they can't return it doesn't matter...)

firewood
Jul 17, 2010, 01:57 AM
Why Apple doesn't just fix the damned iPhone 4.

Why do you think a fix exists? Or that the bumper isn't the correct fix? Are you a physics professor with some new theories? Other cell phone makers seem to just push the problem around to a different place, possibly making it worse on average (or battery life worse, or the phone a lot bigger, etc.)

If your fix is a bigger phone, Apple still sells the 3GS. Buy that instead. Problem fixed.

kironin
Jul 17, 2010, 02:02 AM
Consumer reports should just go crawl back under their rock and keep their bad science to themselves.

and what evidence do you have for stating that they do "bad science" ?

firewood
Jul 17, 2010, 02:08 AM
AT&T starts counting from the activation of the new contract, the day it was ordered, 15 June. Their customers never had the opportunity for a full refund in the first place...

Good thing I waited in line at an Apple store, even though like 5 AT&T stores are closer to me (and reportedly had much shorter lines). I prefer Apple's store policies. Caveat Emptor.

But I have zero reasons to want to return my i4. It gives me a signal in places my 3GS didn't.

BobVB
Jul 17, 2010, 02:10 AM
Caveat Emptor.

(now cue the people moving the goal posts and saying the fact that they can't return it doesn't matter...)

You're so predictable Firewood.

vegastime
Jul 17, 2010, 02:14 AM
+1

Long ago I used to work at Circuit City and Best Buy and people always came in with their Consumer Reports magazines and honestly most of the time that magazine recommended junk. Sadly, because it was "Consumer Reports" vs the commissioned salesguy (when I was at CCity, BBY didn't have commission) people would listen to consumer reports because they thought I was trying to sell them something that made me more money. (In reality I wanted to sell them something they wouldn't return since returns cost me money!)

Needless to say a good 80% of what that magazine recommended was the stuff that got returned. At least in the consumer electronics section.

80%?

Really?

suade8880
Jul 17, 2010, 02:20 AM
The tides are starting to turn; take a look at CR's blog and the comments, there is a huge rising backlash against them for continuing to bash iPhone 4. They are also being negligent of the fact that MANY other phones have the same issue. (See here: http://www.apple.com/antenna/ )

Yep, CR has created an uproar among iPhone and non-iPhone users against them. It starting to backfire on them like they never expected. From subscribers cancelations to those calling them out for no credibility what so ever. It's starting to get scary.:o

firewood
Jul 17, 2010, 02:30 AM
. the issue is not the death grip but in fact that if you put your finger on one spot, you loose all signal in a lower signal area. THAT IS THE ISSUE! Not trying to cover up the entire antenna.

No one cares about that "finger" issue except bloggers (and people who post comments on blogs). No normal human sticks a finger at the side of their phone. No one cares if the bars drop while the phone is next to their head where they can't even see them.

People care about phone calls. That condenses all these irrelevant issues down to just one.

Dropped call rate. The i4 is reported to be slightly worse than the 3GS in dropped call rate (I think the real reason for that difference isn't just that cases weren't available, as Steve hypothesized, but because the i4 looks so d*mn good without a case compared to all previous cell phones). That slightly different dropped call rate what you (currently have to) pay to get a compact slimmer smartphone with good battery life (that looks so good).

If you want a fatter phone with a smaller battery, but perhaps a currently 1% better dropped calls statistic, get a 3GS.

firewood
Jul 17, 2010, 02:33 AM
(now cue the people moving the goal posts and saying the fact that they can't return it doesn't matter...)

You can return it. Pay the restock fee (which you agreed to with AT&T) and get a 3GS (or some other AT&T phone) to fill the contract that you also agreed to. Caveat Emptor.

suade8880
Jul 17, 2010, 02:47 AM
No one cares about that "finger" issue except bloggers (and people who post comments on blogs). No normal human sticks a finger at the side of their phone. No one cares if the bars drop while the phone is next to their head where they can't even see them.

People care about phone calls. That condenses all these irrelevant issues down to just one.

Dropped call rate. The i4 is reported to be slightly worse than the 3GS in dropped call rate (I think the real reason for that difference isn't just that cases weren't available, as Steve hypothesized, but because the i4 looks so d*mn good without a case compared to all previous cell phones). That slightly different dropped call rate what you (currently have to) pay to get a compact slimmer smartphone with good battery life (that looks so good).

If you want a fatter phone with a smaller battery, but perhaps a currently 1%
better dropped calls statistic, get a 3GS.

Agreed.I also don't understand about all these stupid fusses about one finger on the antenna. If we hold the phone normally the same way every phone has the attenuation problem. And that is all we care about.

kolebee
Jul 17, 2010, 03:05 AM
 didn't sell all the iPhone 4s, 's policies has nothing to do with other retailers. AT&T starts counting from the activation of the new contract, the day it was ordered, 15 June. Their customers never had the opportunity for a full refund in the first place and most first day orders can no longer cancel their contract without a multi-hundred dollar Early Termination Fee.

So the mantra of 'just return it' is disingenuous at best since hundreds of thousands can't.

(now cue the people moving the goal posts and saying the fact that they can't return it doesn't matter...)

From ATT's website:
"If the equipment you purchased directly from AT&T does not meet your expectations, you may return or exchange it at any AT&T owned retail store within 30 days from the date the equipment was purchased or shipped."
"Call the number on your invoice/receipt to cancel your service. You may cancel service within 30 days from the activation date to avoid the applicable early termination fee (the "Early Termination Fee" or "ETF")."

For the device return, ATT starts counting from purchase date (if in person) or ship date (if ordered) and allows 30 days. For avoiding ETF, ATT counts from the day of service activation and allows 30 days. Lying isn't cool.

zacman
Jul 17, 2010, 03:06 AM
There are plenty of counter examples for not only those phones but also the iPhone 4 by people with strong coverage who cannot make their phone fail. As SJ in Apple press conference noted, the formula they used before made it seem like there was a dramatic drop when it was already a weak signal to begin with.

Which other phones loses 20dB when you hold it in your hand naturally? Jobs spoke about bars but not about the real issue. Hell even with their bumper "solution" you still lose 7dB when you hold it and data speed goes rapidly down.

.Andy
Jul 17, 2010, 03:07 AM
No one cares about that "finger" issue except bloggers (and people who post comments on blogs). No normal human sticks a finger at the side of their phone.
No normal human holds their phone on the side with their fingers :confused:?

capsfan1978
Jul 17, 2010, 03:07 AM
* Nexus One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA

* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA

* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54

* Nexus One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g

* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem):
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=34ae2c179184c33e&hl=en


There are plenty of counter examples for not only those phones but also the iPhone 4 by people with strong coverage who cannot make their phone fail. As SJ in Apple press conference noted, the formula they used before made it seem like there was a dramatic drop when it was already a weak signal to begin with.

Will Consumer Reports also recommend not getting these phones too or are they biased?

Good post. I took the liberty of focusing just on Google's own Jesus phone the Nexus One. Most are completely unaware that it too had reception issues. That's because it didn't sell. After 2 months of sales, only an estimated 135,000 phones had been sold. There were 1,700,000 iPhone 4s sold after the weekend of the official release. Think about that. To add more perspective on this about 100,000 Motorola Droids were sold on its first weekend -- and the HTC Evo? 300,000 in the first weekend. Therefore, an issue affecting a small percentage of phones/users appears to be a much larger problem simply because of the numbers involved.

Now let's go back to the Nexus One. Designed by Google, built by HTC, and running Android it was supposed to be the pinnacle of smartphone technology. But it wasn't, see above videos and support thread. And you know what, they thought it was a non-issue too. They claimed it was a software problem and pushed out a firmware update a few week after the release date that did nothing to fix the problem. Four months later they admitted what people had speculated - it was a hardware problem and no software change would fix it. link to article (http://www.phonenews.com/google-no-longer-planning-updates-for-nexus-one-reception-issues-11002/) So how did Google inform their loyal Android devotees of the Google-branded phone? A press conference? No. A press release? No. An e-mail from the CEO? No.

What they got was a posting from a Google employee named Ryan, who goes by Ry Guy who appears to be some kind of Nexus/Android support forum moderator profile (http://www.google.com/profiles/101640363069199492259?hl=en), on page 68 of a thread where users complained about the reception issue that read:

"I’ve seen some recent speculation on this thread about an OTA to improve 3G connectivity and I want to give you an update on the situation. While we are continuing to monitor user feedback regarding the 3G performance on the Nexus One, we are no longer investigating further engineering improvements at this time. If you are still experiencing 3G issues, we recommend that you try changing your location or even the orientation of your phone, as this may help in areas with weaker coverage.” Basically saying that Google knows that there is a hardware design defect and they don't plan to do anything about it. AND If users are having problems they need to move out of weak signal areas and change the orientation of their phone. That sounds a lot like your network sucks and your holding it wrong to me.

Fast forward to today. The Nexus One is being discontinued after 7 months, yet it's the only Android phone that currently officially supports the hyped Froyo update. So what Google is telling their loyal customers is that the only way to have the latest and "best" OS for their smartphone is to use their own branded, defective, and discontinued phone. How's that for customer service? Where are the angry mobs with pitchforks and torches calling for Eric Schmidt's head? Where is the endless drumbeat of blogger and media sites hyping this issue?

Looks to me like Apple is right on this one while CR and other media sites are looking really foolish right now for blowing things out of proportion.

The bottom line is that people care about Apple, both its supporters and detractors. Steve Jobs is a polarizing figure. But apparently no one gives a **** about Google (except technophiles) and people wouldn't know who Eric Schmidt is if he came up and punched you in the face.

One more thing. I don't care what kind of phone you have or your opinion of me because I'm happy with my iPhone 4. If you have any one of the many Android phones - good for you. I hope you enjoy it, I considered switching to an Android phone but after evaluating each one in terms of my situation - the iPhone was the best fit for me. If you have a RIM, Nokia, Palm, or any dumbphone - same to you, except I never considered switching to those.

And last, if you have an iPhone 4 and aren't happy with the reception - try a case or a skin like Stealth Armor. If that doesn't work or you don't like it, return it and get the phone that will make you happy. If you're concerned about your apps like that moron FoW - they still sell the 3GS.

anomie
Jul 17, 2010, 03:14 AM
Good for Consumer Reports. The bumper is nothing but a band-aid. I don't/didn't need a bumper or a case for my 3GS, 3G, 2G. Why for the iPhone 4?

WTF? Maybe cause they all did have an internal antenna?
Too much wiid? ;)

Tor Eckman
Jul 17, 2010, 03:15 AM
From ATT's website:
"If the equipment you purchased directly from AT&T does not meet your expectations, you may return or exchange it at any AT&T owned retail store within 30 days from the date the equipment was purchased or shipped."
"Call the number on your invoice/receipt to cancel your service. You may cancel service within 30 days from the activation date to avoid the applicable early termination fee (the "Early Termination Fee" or "ETF")."

For the device return, ATT starts counting from purchase date (if in person) or ship date (if ordered) and allows 30 days. For avoiding ETF, ATT counts from the day of service activation and allows 30 days. Lying isn't cool.

AT&T is telling customers that the activation date is the date the order was taken -- which has got to be wrong. But that is what they are in fact telling customers.

On a side note, I've had my iPhone 4 since 6/23, and absolutely love it. I bought my wife one yesterday.

Nemesis
Jul 17, 2010, 03:18 AM
Meh, does it really matter?
I am still buying one, I don't really care what CR thinks.

Americans and some other consumer breeding nations that depend for their living on what consumers think and want, have Consumer Reports agencies that do not serve public, but themselves.
In reality they recommend a very few products in the market. If American CR doesn't recommend any smart phone, does it mean all smart phones are bad?No. It simply means CR is defending their liar and arses in a case someone decides to sue them for recommending or endorsing a device that may have some problem.
Because all smart phones do have a reception problem as clearly demonstrated by Apple -- and what normal people outside US know for ages -- of course CR cannot recommend any. All smart phones are prone to issues that affect their basic functionality.
Is CR protecting consumers? Nope. Just themselves. They're just being political and clever inside the insane consumer society.

capsfan1978
Jul 17, 2010, 03:21 AM
Omg will everyone stop coping and pasting this crap. the issue is not the death grip but in fact that if you put your finger on one spot, you loose all signal in a lower signal area. THAT IS THE ISSUE! Not trying to cover up the entire antenna.

This is the difference.. try to see through the reality distortion field.

You do realize that the "using your finger to make the bars disappear" trick doesn't necessarily mean you lose all reception, right? And that the real world impact of such action is dependent on more than just you touching the antenna?

Things like signal strength and network congestion are two such factors that would also impact reception and data rates.

YMMV, but I can sit at my desk at work - where the signal isn't the greatest - touch the band with my finger and watch the bars disappear. But I can still make and receive phone calls and download data. Granted the data rate crawls and it kills my battery as it struggles to compensate, but only once did it fail to connect to the server.

It's my experience and may not mean anything to anyone else, but don't try to say that the finger touch is a problem for every user in daily use.

rockosmodurnlif
Jul 17, 2010, 03:26 AM
Spread that "Don't Buy" recommendation all over the place. Hopefully it keeps away enough people so I can get my limited quantity defective white iPhone without any hassle on July 30.

UK-MacAddict
Jul 17, 2010, 03:26 AM
I've used over 100 phones, including the previous 3 iPhones and I have never had an issue like the iPhone 4. My sister has a blackberry bold 9700 and it doesn't drop signal if you hold it normally. The only time it drops signal is if you grip it in both hands covering the whole phone, and who does that? Apple should have had those phones laid out on a table on the stage so Steve could demonstrate the signal drop live on each handset. Videos can be tampered with so the videos shown are unreliable.

Even if the Blackberry, HTC etc really did drop signal too its a case of 'if your friend jumped off a bridge would you do it too?' He said Apple was an engineering company and innovative. Just because other handsets drop signal it doesnt make it acceptable that iPhone 4 drops signal too. Use some of those engineers and make it better than the other manufacturers.

When talking on the phone my last 2 fingers are always at the base of the phone so my finger lines up exactly with the dead spot. It's a natural way to hold the phone. Any other way of holding it feels unnatural and feels like the phone will drop.

Also iPhone 4 does not only drop signal in weak areas it drops it at any signal strength. I've had numerous people complaining they can't hear me and blocky voice when in calls. I've never had this problem with any other phone.

As for the retards who accept this free case as a fix get your head out of steves ass.

That whole press conference was a joke. He spent the majority of the time making excuses. What he should of said was they are making hardware mods, until they arrive have a free case and then you can exchange the phone for the fixed model later.

I just bought myself a new htc desire until apple have a real fix.

Tor Eckman
Jul 17, 2010, 03:28 AM
I've used over 100 phones, including the previous 3 iPhones and I have never had an issue like the iPhone 4. My sister has a blackberry bold 9700 and it doesn't drop signal if you hold it normally. The only time it drops signal is if you grip it in both hands covering the whole phone, and who does that?

When talking on the phone my last 2 fingers are always at the base of the phone so my finger lines up exactly with the dead spot. It's a natural way to hold the phone. Any other way of holding it feels unnatural and feels like the phone will drop.

Also iPhone 4 does not only drop signal in weak areas it drops it at any signal strength. I've had numerous ppl complaining they can't hear me and blocky voice when in calls. I've never had this problem with any other phone.

As for the retards who accept this free case as a fix get your head out of steves ass.

I just bought myself a new htc desire until apple have a real fix.

To paraphrase Pee Wee Herman: good for you and your sister :)

kolebee
Jul 17, 2010, 03:31 AM
AT&T is telling customers that the activation date is the date the order was taken -- which has got to be wrong. But that is what they are in fact telling customers.

Hmm… Mentioning small claims court is probably an easy resolution here.


On a side note, I've had my iPhone 4 since 6/23, and absolutely love it. I bought my wife one yesterday.

My boyfriend and I got iPhone 4s on launch (and also my brother), and none of us have had any problems with them. I also got another one for work about a week ago. I don't have any sort of case on either of mine, and I haven't had even a single dropped call yet.

The only thing I'm worried about is being able to get a couple of actual bumpers (free or otherwise and preferably not in black) before I go on holiday soon. I've gotten paranoid about dropping it and the glass shattering…they're pretty slippery compared to the previous generations. I have a feeling the bumpers are going to be next to impossible to get now. :rolleyes:

HLdan
Jul 17, 2010, 03:33 AM
Not happy with the case/bumper.
I can't use the craddle or my bose speakers unless I remove the case or bumper crap each time. If you ever saw those bumbers, they are cheap piece of thick rubber. :p

Cry me a river. :p

Tor Eckman
Jul 17, 2010, 03:33 AM
Hmm… Mentioning small claims court is probably an easy resolution here.




You would never get around binding arbitration I'm afraid. The way to fix this is to bring media attention -- sunlight is the best disinfectant.

kolebee
Jul 17, 2010, 03:38 AM
You would never get around binding arbitration I'm afraid. The way to fix this is to bring media attention -- sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Their return policy doesn't mention binding arbitration. If it's there, I guess it's in the terms of service. Fortunately, (as with plenty of stipulations in modern ToS "agreements") it looks like in many cases for a while now, judges aren't buying it. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/102639

dfctedge
Jul 17, 2010, 03:40 AM
What are you Doing in America, get yourself to live to Cuba or Venezuela. They Might admit you.

Keep up the pressure CR! Take the fight to these thieves! All the cell phones I've ever used works fine when holding them in my left hand except the iPhone 4.

Tor Eckman
Jul 17, 2010, 03:40 AM
Their return policy doesn't mention binding arbitration. If it's there, I guess it's in the terms of service. Fortunately, (as with plenty of stipulations in modern ToS "agreements") it looks like in many cases for a while now, judges aren't buying it. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/102639

I truly hope someone takes AT&T to task over this. Even though I'm not interested in returning my iPhone, and I think Apple has been stand up here, AT&T is still proving to be a weed in the garden and deserves to be called out!

shallowman
Jul 17, 2010, 03:42 AM
I don't need a case for my iPhone 4. I can receive calls and make outgoing calls just fine. I can however duplicate the issue by holding my finger on the antenna line but why would I do that? I could also do something dumb like block the IR on my TV Remote, but I don't.

This is an excellent point. Many items that we use every day work flawlessly so long as we don't put our hands/fingers in a place that interferes with their operation.

kolebee
Jul 17, 2010, 03:47 AM
I truly hope someone takes AT&T to task over this. Even though I'm not interested in returning my iPhone, and I think Apple has been stand up here, AT&T is still proving to be a weed in the garden and deserves to be called out!

Absolutely. We intended to pre-order (as usual), but we failed because of ATT's eligibility server underprovisioning. On launch, we opted for the Apple store over ATT. They definitely leave something to be desired; whereas, the purchase process in the Apple store couldn't have been more pleasant.

dfctedge
Jul 17, 2010, 03:51 AM
After reading many of posts, I can conclude that we the Consumers have banned ConsumersReport by a big proportion.
ConsumerReports magazine and staff are not a Reference because the live in the PC world. The will never go out of their square mind and think at least like one Atom of Steve Jobs. They are people who receive money on the side to talk or not about products. So, if they cannot recommend the iPhone 4, because whatever reason, I do not recommend ConsumerReports, because it is not a reliable source.

For all who have an iPhone 4 (3 million) so far, don´t buy ConsumerReport magazine and let´s see who is the one who is finally affected.

UK-MacAddict
Jul 17, 2010, 03:52 AM
This is an excellent point. Many items that we use every day work flawlessly so long as we don't put our hands/fingers in a place that interferes with their operation.

This is true but with the majority of items you would have to go out of the way to interfere with their operation.

With iPhone 4 the way I have held every phone I've ever had interferes with the signal. My last 2 fingers always wrap around the the base of the phone. But just so happens on iPhone 4 the dead spot it is exactly where I place my fingers.

They should investigate to see if its in any way possible to move that dead spot to the band at the top of the phone. Then nobody would have a problem.

rerelease
Jul 17, 2010, 03:55 AM
Whoa, Steve's pep talk sure worked on a lot of you.

MH01
Jul 17, 2010, 03:56 AM
I can not recommend Consumer Reports due to their flawed and inadequate testing methodologies when it comes to iPhone 4.

Methodology does not mean what you think it does. Apple just held a press conference stating they got it wrong, ease up on kissing their ass and apologising 24/7, Steve has is covered with some free cases. For apple to come out and admit something like this.... Yes it's a real problem.

OllyW
Jul 17, 2010, 03:58 AM
This is an excellent point. Many items that we use every day work flawlessly so long as we don't put our hands/fingers in a place that interferes with their operation.

True, but the designers of your remote control have placed the IR transmitter at the top of the device, where you wouldn't hold it. The problem with the iPhone 4 is the sensitive area is positioned right in the place where a lot of people instinctively hold their phones.

rish
Jul 17, 2010, 03:59 AM
Hmm… Mentioning small claims court is probably an easy resolution here.



My boyfriend and I got iPhone 4s on launch (and also my brother), and none of us have had any problems with them. I also got another one for work about a week ago. I don't have any sort of case on either of mine, and I haven't had even a single dropped call yet.

The only thing I'm worried about is being able to get a couple of actual bumpers (free or otherwise and preferably not in black) before I go on holiday soon. I've gotten paranoid about dropping it and the glass shattering…they're pretty slippery compared to the previous generations. I have a feeling the bumpers are going to be next to impossible to get now. :rolleyes:

Well we're in the same camp on this. I've got just over half a dozen friends who also have not experienced any issues. Even with a single or even two bars there have been no dropped calls.
This is pre getting a cover.

I think the issue with covering the antenna location is like picking a scab or a spot, it's there and people can't help but pick it knowing it won't do anything to truly make it any better. If the doctor tells you don't lean hard on an injured leg hopefully you wouldn't do it. Here despite being told to reposition your hand we have the opposite. Our ability to adapt when things are difficult is appalling.

I'm in London and have not heard from anyone in Europe who has experienced dropped calls despite reaching out on this and another forum.

Treefu
Jul 17, 2010, 04:15 AM
Our ability to adapt when things are difficult is appalling.

Equally appalling is our ability to ignore, look the other way and let someone else handle it when something is wrong.

Which often leads to the few that do, are the most extreme yet most of us gladly enjoy any benefits their actions might give us.

Some things are better today, some are worse.

UK-MacAddict
Jul 17, 2010, 04:16 AM
Well we're in the same camp on this. I've got just over half a dozen friends who also have experienced no issues. We're in London and I the network transmission frequency is a factor. However even with a couple or a single bar there have been no dropped calls. This is pre getting a cover.

I think the issue with covering the antenna location is like picking a scab or a spot, it's there and people can't help but pick it knowing it won't do anything to truly make it any better.

This is a great phone and it's fab. I think the other issue we have here is we have in today's global society the whiners. If the doctor tells you don't lean hard on an injured leg hopefully you wouldn't do it. Here despite being told to reposition your hand we have the opposite. Our ability to adapt when things are difficult is appalling.

I've still to hear from anyone in Europe who has experienced dropped calls despite reaching out on this and another forum.


Why should anyone have to reposition their hand? If you are right handed and hold the phone like a normal person your natural finger position will cover the dead spot on the phone. Only way to avoid doing so is hold the phone higher up which make using it uncomfortable and insecure in your hand.

You should post a picture of how you hold your iPhone when browsing the internet and during calls. I'm pretty sure you'll look like a retard.

OllyW
Jul 17, 2010, 04:18 AM
I've still to hear from anyone in Europe who has experienced dropped calls despite reaching out on this and another forum.

I've had a few dropped calls since I've had my iPhone 4. :(

BernardSG
Jul 17, 2010, 04:38 AM
You should post a picture of how you hold your iPhone when browsing the internet and during calls. I'm pretty sure you'll look like a retard.

As far as you're concerned, posting a picture is not necessary :)

WilliamLondon
Jul 17, 2010, 04:44 AM
I love how all the Apple fanboys are coming out and saying that Consumer Reports sucks, etc., when before this Consumer Reports was used to recommend the iPhone

I love it how all these people use silly labels like fanboy or fanboi to create a group of people that are all bad while distancing themselves from that group and claiming moral superiority. Actually, I *hate* when people are so stupid and do offensive things like that.

Bit of a silly thing this Consumer Reports problem - just highlights their own ineptitude, when one day they were recommending it, and the next they weren't. Makes one wonder how accurate their other recommendations are. One day a washing machine is great, the next, ooops, it just tore some shirts, oh well the article has gone to print!

mbrannon47
Jul 17, 2010, 04:46 AM
I will not read through 700 comments, but perhaps someone can answer. Has Apple announced what cases they might be offering in addition to the Bumper?

BeachChair
Jul 17, 2010, 05:23 AM
By not recommending a really great phone they are doing a disservice to their readers and consumers. Based on that, I can't recommend Consumer Reports.

OllyW
Jul 17, 2010, 05:38 AM
I will not read through 700 comments, but perhaps someone can answer. Has Apple announced what cases they might be offering in addition to the Bumper?

Not yet, they will be announced sometime next week.

SactoGuy18
Jul 17, 2010, 05:54 AM
What just frustrates me to no end is the fact Apple did NOT admit to the antenna problem on the "bare" iPhone 4 and also has yet to address the proximity sensor issue.

If Apple doesn't fix these problems soon with an updated production iPhone 4 the Federal Trade Commission may take an interest, and I don't think Steve Jobs wants to deal with the FTC possibly for several years.

organerito
Jul 17, 2010, 05:54 AM
Apple is the best tech company ever. You should be ashamed to have anything negative to say about Apple. Steve Jobs and crew have basically invented the personal computer. What have you done in your life, he knows better than you, just buy Apple products, enjoy and shut up.

What have You done in your life?
According to you, people are only worth or good enough for your standards if they work for Apple or if they just buy Apple products, enjoy and shut up? You must very a very sad person with a lot of problems. You sound like a white supremacist who works in a farm cleaning sh** all day.
Believe it or not. There are actually people who love what they do even if it is not making computers at Apple. There are actually people intellectually free enough to decide whether to buy Apple or not.

Popeye206
Jul 17, 2010, 05:55 AM
This whole thing is so blown out of proportion by the media and the anti-Apple trolls it's amazing.

Yes the antenna design is not perfect.... but affects little to nothing under normal use.

It's most sad to see that Apple has stepped up to do something fair and people are still bashing on them.... you don't hear this sort of outcry for the crap other companies have put out over the past couple of years trying to catch up to Apple. OS's that are junk. Functionality that is half baked. What did they do to fix their problems? Nothing... just stop that product and produce more junk.

I guess when you're on top, everyone wants knock you off so they can beat up the next guy on top.

As for Consumer Reports... shame on them... they recommend that Apple should provide the bumper - they do - and then still refuse to give their top rated phone a recommendation? Sounds like they are after media attention themselves.

Snowshiro
Jul 17, 2010, 06:24 AM
This whole thing is so blown out of proportion by the media and the anti-Apple trolls it's amazing.


Yes, absolutely. Spending several hundred dollars on a phone that can't make calls without dropping the signal, and not being satisfied is trolling. Of course it is.

Yes the antenna design is not perfect.... but affects little to nothing under normal use.

Except err... making phone calls and using data.

you don't hear this sort of outcry for the crap other companies have put out over the past couple of years trying to catch up to Apple.

Err.. are you an idiot or just willfully ignorant? Have you seen the bashing that takes place amongst the Apple fanboy community for the Zune, for Windows Mobile, for Google/Android etc...

OS's that are junk. Functionality that is half baked.

Three major releases of the OS to get cut and paste, that every other phone has had for about a decade? Four major releases and still no wireless sync, which just about every other smartphone can do? That's called half-baked functionality dude.

What did they do to fix their problems? Nothing... just stop that product and produce more junk.

You're just making stuff up now. You don't even know what you're talking about.

I guess when you're on top, everyone wants knock you off so they can beat up the next guy on top.

The only true thing you've said. It's called business.

As for Consumer Reports... shame on them...

Yes, shame on them. Shame on them for being a consumer watchdog that doesn't recommend a flawed product. No other smartphone I've ever seen has suffered this problem to the degree that the iPhone 4 does, regardless of what Jesus Jobs claims. It didn't happen with the 3G, the 3GS or the original iPhone and you didn't need a case to use them. If Consumer Reports recommended a Microsoft product that had flaws and someone posted the information here you'd be all over them.

The fanboyism on this forum has been pretty comical for a long time now, but some of you these days are starting to sound like you're mentally ill.

kallisti
Jul 17, 2010, 06:29 AM
it should be not recommended to people that hold the phone with their left hands and cannot afford tape to resolve the issue.

To the 6% of the lefties out there, buy the phone before sept 30th.

the antennagate issue doesn't affect me and i'm happy with the phone, and that's what matters.

As a lefty, I hold my phone in my RIGHT hand. That way I can write things down while on the phone. Or use my left hand to interact with the screen. I would imagine that the majority of right-handed people hold the phone in their left hand for the same reasons.

btrav13
Jul 17, 2010, 06:38 AM
As an owner of something other than the iPhone 4:

I love Apple and SJ. I think it probably ran all over him to have to give that press conference yesterday and honestly I'm not sure I blame him. However, as he admitted, Apple might have caused this themselves by making it LOOK worse than it actually was. If that's the case, then it's hard after the fact to change everyone's perception.

I don't think the media is trying to bring down Apple....one stupid cell phone is not going to ruin a company. If Toyota's cars killed a few people, and they are still going strong, then I think Apple is going to be JUST fine.

BruiserBear
Jul 17, 2010, 06:46 AM
Please return your iPhone 4 if you do not like it. There is no basic human right to own an iPhone. You, as a consumer can make a choice as to what phone you want to buy. Stop crying and buy a blackberry if you what one. Myself, and 99.95% of iPhone 4 owners will enjoy our new phones. It is by far, the best phone that I have ever had. Period.

Spoken like a good Steve Jobs robot fan.

MorphingDragon
Jul 17, 2010, 06:52 AM
The fanboyism on this forum has been pretty comical for a long time now, but some of you these days are starting to sound like you're mentally ill.

But there in lies a dilemma.

You could be the one mentally ill, and wrongly accusing perfectly fine people of faults they do not have. *Cough*

gorgeousninja
Jul 17, 2010, 06:58 AM
The fanboyism on this forum has been pretty comical for a long time now, but some of you these days are starting to sound like you're mentally ill

Oh boy! The maggots continue to crawl out the woodwork...
So, on a forum dedicated to Apple, it amazes you to find people that like their products!!
Gosh how incredible! I'm guessing, though I have no desire to check, that there are forums dedicated to Drone products where 10's of annoying little babies like yourself can find lots of things to talk about until mummy says bedtime....

SiPat
Jul 17, 2010, 07:10 AM
Didn't Steve Jobs say something about Eminem producing a sticker that would fit the left hand corner of the antenna and that would resolve the issue. Perhaps the stickers will be ready by Sept 30th.

My own feeling is that all iP4s manufactured after Sept 30th will have some sort of invisible coating (lacquer?) to resolve the issue of dropped calls. Also, AT&T will have a lot more masts erected to improve cell reception, and with yet another iOS update before then, all the problems will disappear, and people will start their love-affair with their iPhone4.

And someone, please sue CR...

Compile 'em all
Jul 17, 2010, 07:17 AM
Three major releases of the OS to get cut and paste, that every other phone has had for about a decade? Four major releases and still no wireless sync, which just about every other smartphone can do? That's called half-baked functionality dude.


Are you ignorant or just pretending to be one?

The iPhone has cut/paste NOW. And it IS the best implementation of cut/paste on any mobile device out there.

You don't have the feature, you whine. You have the feature, you whine.

Please continue.

gehrbox
Jul 17, 2010, 07:21 AM
True... even for people that said they have an iPh4 with no problem at all. But assuming everybody is lying defeat the purpose of communication.

Seems that philosophy works in politics.

tmarks11
Jul 17, 2010, 07:47 AM
My recent experience with CR... I would look at their top rated unit, then I would read all the reviews by CR readers that were posted right there on CR webpage. Almost all of CR top rated units were hammered by the actual purchasers. Really hammered. It seems none of the top rated CR were preferred by real people. Go there, read for yourself.

I think all the people who are praising CR are people who don't actually use it. I had a subscription for 2-3 years, but let it lapse. Why? Their reviews of consumer products were short and lacking detailed facts, they invariably didn't have the brands that I was most interested. User reviews tended to be much more detailed and useful.

CR has lost their way in the Internet age. Now, if I want to find out about a product, I read user reviews on Amazon or resellerratings.com, or some other review site. You want detailed reviews of a product, you are better off finding a magazine that is actually an expert in then field of interest.

That being said, this press event was troubling to me. I think S Jobs would have been better off just issuing a press release about this, which is what any other company would have done. He did not have enough material and facts for a hosted event like this. Or maybe he should have made a talk show appearance.

I was seriously thinking about paying big $$$ to get out of my VZW contract 3months early. But I think that this issue still has distance to go, so will hold off buying an IP4 until the end of Sept. Maybe their will be an unannounced hardware change by then.

macodyssey.com
Jul 17, 2010, 07:54 AM
Look this is an issue that people are blowing way out of proportion with what the issue is. Even if it is an issue, it is for a very small number of people who will get sorted out if they bring back the phone. People need to get on with there lives and if they have an iPhone 4 enjoy it as it is the best piece of kit out there at the moment. everyone take it easy...

tmarks11
Jul 17, 2010, 08:14 AM
The iPhone has cut/paste NOW. And it IS the best implementation of cut/paste on any mobile device out there.

Have you used any other devices? Apple's version plain sucks compared to PPC 2003. Microsoft even made the user walk through a tutorial on cut and paste EVERY time the phone was hard reset (and that happened a lot). Microsoft's version worked just like a desktop. And you could use shortcuts like ctrl-c and ctrl-v.

Don't get me wrong, I like my iPad. But cut and paste ranks as one of the most frustrating things about it.

Lord Vader
Jul 17, 2010, 08:16 AM
Have you used any other devices? Apple's version plain sucks compared to PPC 2003. Microsoft even made the user walk through a tutorial on cut and paste EVERY time the phone was hard reset (and that happened a lot). Microsoft's version worked just like a desktop. And you could use shortcuts like ctrl-c and ctrl-v.

Don't get me wrong, I like my iPad. But cut and paste ranks as one of the most frustrating things about it.

Go se a doctor then.

tdream
Jul 17, 2010, 08:16 AM
So many fanbois in this thread.

A group report the facts accurately again and don't side with Apple, babies cry waaahhhhh.....

dijisurf
Jul 17, 2010, 08:18 AM
General masses know how well the iPhone works. 99.45% of 3 million customers will have the word of mouth circulating. and that is all apple needs.
As a person involved in high tech industry. Didn't read cr not even once. They are no differ than any other magazine , they have some labs. That's all.
They will always be remembered as apple rolls hundreds of millions of devices. And in time cr will lose it's audience and credibility for manipulating reports, which is already insignificant. Don't know one person who cares about cr. Not in my field.

tdream
Jul 17, 2010, 08:18 AM
The fanboyism on this forum has been pretty comical for a long time now, but some of you these days are starting to sound like you're mentally ill

Oh boy! The maggots continue to crawl out the woodwork...
So, on a forum dedicated to Apple, it amazes you to find people that like their products!!
Gosh how incredible! I'm guessing, though I have no desire to check, that there are forums dedicated to Drone products where 10's of annoying little babies like yourself can find lots of things to talk about until mummy says bedtime....

Kinda like yourself. Registered 07 and still a newbie. You know it doesn't take that many posts to reach member status.

macswitcha2
Jul 17, 2010, 08:27 AM
Good for Consumer Reports. The bumper is nothing but a band-aid. I don't/didn't need a bumper or a case for my 3GS, 3G, 2G. Why for the iPhone 4?

I know, but you see, that's logic which most fanboys don't operate in. True, Apple is offering a full refund but that's a red herring to divert attention to the real issues.

Lord Vader
Jul 17, 2010, 08:35 AM
I know, but you see, that's logic which most fanboys don't operate in. True, Apple is offering a full refund but that's a red herring to divert attention to the real issues.

Oh the "REAL ISSUE". No, no, I get it.

Shivetya
Jul 17, 2010, 08:44 AM
Good for them. While I like my Macs and iPod I don't believe in Apple hype, let alone would I take Apple's word over Consumer Reports.

Consumer Reports has obviously become more aggressive, that LX470 episode recently was amazing in its power; having Toyota issue a stop sell is a sign that good manufacturers respect the organization.

Consumer Reports is the ONLY testing group who does not permit manufactures to advertise their ratings, all the others sell those rights.

echo44
Jul 17, 2010, 08:46 AM
If you are not happy with the iPhone return it and buy a phone
that makes you happy? The iPhone has been out for 23 days which
means anyone who has bought one can return the phone no questions asked for a full refund! Steve was specifically asked if you could cancel the AT&T contract with no penalty and the answer was yes!
If you think Apple is arrogant and reckless in their product development the beauty is you can express this with your pocket book and not by Apple products.
Its so Easy. If I was so unhappy with my iPhone I would spend my free time returning the phone and researching which new phone to buy. The bashers here remind me of Obama complaining about all the problems of the Bush administration rather than focusing on solving the problems!
I personally feel my iPhone 4 is the best phone I have ever owned! Thats not being a fanboy thats just my personal review of a product I bought.
I do support Apple because their costumer support has always been the best
this has been proven over and over http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/apple-tops-pc-customer-service-rankings/ I have had several personal experiences where Apple has stepped up to the plate. I had a laptop screen go dead 3 months after the warranty expired apple fixed it for free!. I bought the macbook Air and after two months of using it I thought it sucked(not happy with its wireless performance) after a phone call to Apple care and described my issues they offered me full refund no restocking fee and I took them up on it and got my money back. I have personally emailed Steve with issues and not only were my emails personally answered I once even got a phone call from his personal assistant who told me Steve had authorized him to make sure my problem was solved regardless of what needed to be done! I have never heard of anyone getting personal response or help fro Bill Gates? The bottom line is Apple cares immensely about their users and if you don't believe this don't buy their products!!! Its a free market place. Like every product on the market Apple products have flaws and weaknesses. The iPhone and AT&T do not provide the best phone service in most markets however I look at the whole picture. I have yet to see a better smart phone IMO than the iPhone and for me since I rarely have dropped calls the phone part is not an issue!

randyhudson
Jul 17, 2010, 08:49 AM
Completely agree with CR. Wait for the iPhone 4.1 announced on Friday and available October 1st.

Speedtest results, done in front of two Apple employees right there in the store (A friend and I were asking for a free bumper before Friday, to which the employee replied "the bumper isn't the solution". So we tried it out):
2.0 Mbps D/L - cupping bumperless phone with two hands, but holding it by the glass
0.2 Mbps D/L - holding the phone naturally with Apple employee's bumper
0.02 Mbps D/L - holding the phone naturally with no bumper

The bumper is not the solution. Download speeds are still 10x slower, even though without it speeds are 100x slower.

Eddyisgreat
Jul 17, 2010, 08:52 AM
I don't think the media is trying to bring down Apple....one stupid cell phone is not going to ruin a company. If Toyota's cars killed a few people, and they are still going strong, then I think Apple is going to be JUST fine.

Well, even thugh the media just reported "Toyota cars killing elders and toddlers in fiery car crashes", they still made haste on reporting the supposed cause which was the pedals who were manufactured by someone else.

In this case it's merely Apple's engineering that can be squarely to blame. Well...I use blame loosely (I don't experience any dropped calls).

Couple that with the fact that cell manufacturers all across the globe wanted to see the smug game changing new comer known as Apple fall flat on their face, and this was a most excellent time to do it. I'm fairly certain that once the issue hit news media, CEOs, product managers, competing cell phone companies, anti-apple people, gizmodo, and advertising departments (who would be making adverts touting this weakness) all pulled a collective awesome face (imaged below for those who don't know). I'd wager it was in slow motion, too.

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q459/crazycrackerspeach/Face_Awesome.png

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 08:56 AM
Which other phones loses 20dB when you hold it in your hand naturally? Jobs spoke about bars but not about the real issue. Hell even with their bumper "solution" you still lose 7dB when you hold it and data speed goes rapidly down.
On whos phone? Certainly not on mine! The real issue is that everyone would be bitching to Apple, and the return rates would be much higher but they are not. Point is, there is no issue here. The hundreds complaining verses the millions, just have a louder voice.

scoobydoo99
Jul 17, 2010, 08:56 AM
to say that consumer reports "touched off a firestorm" is, as Steve would say a "crock" and "total ********". consumer reports doesn't have the credibility to "touch off" anything other than a spirited debate at the ladies' knitting club in the trailer park. no one reads the rag. Apple was goind to make a public statement anyway - to give CR credit is ludicrous.

gehrbox
Jul 17, 2010, 08:58 AM
Not a pretty review (http://gizmodo.com/5587225/motorola-droid-x-review). Gizmodo likes it in a train wreck kind of way.

All those wanting to throw Apple under the bus for a minor antenna issue should get some perspective of what real issues cell phones can have.

Makes you wonder if Motorola does any testing of the software before they release a phone.

OllyW
Jul 17, 2010, 08:58 AM
If you are not happy with the iPhone return it and buy a phone
that makes you happy? The iPhone has been out for 23 days which
means anyone who has bought one can return the phone no questions asked for a full refund! Steve was specifically asked if you could cancel the AT&T contract with no penalty and the answer was yes!

Of course it isn't at all arrogant to assume that every single person in the world who has bought an iPhone 4 lives in America and has got their phone with AT&T. :rolleyes:

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 09:03 AM
So many fanbois in this thread.

A group report the facts accurately again and don't side with Apple, babies cry waaahhhhh.....

I didn't see not one fact reported. The masses would agree with me.

gehrbox
Jul 17, 2010, 09:05 AM
Of course it isn't at all arrogant to assume that every single person in the world who has bought an iPhone 4 lives in America and has got their phone with AT&T. :rolleyes:

Tough luck for those that want to return your iPhone4 and are not lucky enough to be a resident of the greatest country on the earth.

We have better oil leaks, bigger liars in political offices and spend more money we don't have then anyone else on the planet.

We can also lay waste to any country we don't like, so get off the soap box already :D

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 09:07 AM
Of course it isn't at all arrogant to assume that every single person in the world who has bought an iPhone 4 lives in America and has got their phone with AT&T. :rolleyes:

Or even worse, Ignorant to think that everyone that owns an iPhone 4 is having reception issues! Goes both way but in this case it really is a non issue.

echo44
Jul 17, 2010, 09:10 AM
Of course it isn't at all arrogant to assume that every single person in the world who has bought an iPhone 4 lives in America and has got their phone with AT&T. :rolleyes:

See the tree through the forest!

OllyW
Jul 17, 2010, 09:13 AM
Or even worse, Ignorant to think that everyone that owns an iPhone 4 is having reception issues! Goes both way but in this case it really is a non issue.

It isn't a non-issue.

All the fanboys keep quoting "return it and get a refund" but as it stands you can't do that in the UK if you bought it more than 14 days ago.

echo44
Jul 17, 2010, 09:18 AM
Fanboys don't feel bad
Do you remember the bully in 3rd grade that made fun of everyone
pointing out their flaws hiding their own insecurities?
Thats what most of the iphone bashers are about!.. They feel left out
they are not cool being window horrors anymore. Chicks dig Apple fanboys its a fact!!! Don't believe me this clip so represents the two voices behind most of these threads the apple supporters and the apple bashers!
In this clip who do you thing is going home tonight to love and who is going home to be by themselves. Isn't this what the real issue is? If I buy a product and think it sucks I just return it I don't spend time bashing it life is to short
http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/16/a-raging-rambling-debate-about-antennagate-followed-by-a-fanboy-intervention/

Plutonius
Jul 17, 2010, 09:19 AM
It isn't a non-issue.

All the fanboys keep quoting "return it and get a refund" but as it stands you can't do that in the UK if you bought it more than 14 days ago.

Your lose if you didn't return it before 14 days when you decided you didn't like it.

Treefu
Jul 17, 2010, 09:20 AM
4000+ posts in over what, 10 threads... Media rampage... Press conference from otherwise a dead silent Apple... the end of the tunnel still seems dark...

Isn't the whole issue vs. non-issue debate done and over already? :D

OllyW
Jul 17, 2010, 09:23 AM
Your lose if you didn't return it before 14 days when you decided you didn't like it.

People were waiting for Apple to fix it.

It will probably surprise you that most of them want to keep their iPhones but would prefer it if it worked properly.

lkrupp
Jul 17, 2010, 09:37 AM
Somewhere in this Keystone Cops Cluster Jerk of a thread it may have already been mentioned but it needs to be repeated.

We'll just have to wait and see how much influence Consumer Reports has or doesn't have with it's non-recommendation of the iPhone 4. Wait till the hard sales numbers come out in a few months. Then and only then will we have the answer to two basic questions. Does CS have the ability to kill a product with a flick of the pen? Did Steve work his magic once again?

Me and the rest of you all have our personal biases on this matter. We all want to think our bias is the correct one. Nothing matters, however, except the reaction of the buying public to this. All the fanyboy/fandroid/hater FUD in the world won't change a darn thing.

"And that's the bottom line because Stone Cold says so.":eek:

Max(IT)
Jul 17, 2010, 10:08 AM
A question: Have they tested the nokia n97, the BB 9700 or the N1?

I dare them to recommend ANY of the above phones and say blatant lies that they are better in reception than the iphone.:confused:

absolutely correct.

No, it does not cover the spot, it cuts away at each of the breaks. Top Apple Execs including SJ said today that it is a HARDWARE issue, not a SOFTWARE issue. They even blasted NYtimes a little for saying that a software update was coming to fix it. Back off, you look like an idiot yelling at me when you're the one who's wrong. Dang.
Apple Execs said it is a BEHAVIOR, not a flaw.
Any antenna attenuate when covered. Get over it.
iphone 4's antenna attenuates more because it is external, but it has a better SNR for the same reason.
Basically it behaves the same way other smartphones do.
Much ado about nothing.

Treefu
Jul 17, 2010, 10:14 AM
Any antenna attenuate when covered. Get over it.


Erhm... that might be the problem. We're all over... it. :D

kernkraft
Jul 17, 2010, 10:17 AM
Fanboys don't feel bad
Do you remember the bully in 3rd grade that made fun of everyone
pointing out their flaws hiding their own insecurities?
Thats what most of the iphone bashers are about!.. They feel left out
they are not cool being window horrors anymore. Chicks dig Apple fanboys its a fact!!! Don't believe me this clip so represents the two voices behind most of these threads the apple supporters and the apple bashers!
In this clip who do you thing is going home tonight to love and who is going home to be by themselves. Isn't this what the real issue is? If I buy a product and think it sucks I just return it I don't spend time bashing it life is to short
http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/16/a-raging-rambling-debate-about-antennagate-followed-by-a-fanboy-intervention/

I'd say grow up and start using your brain! This level of generalisation is just so unintelligent that even chickens wouldn't find that amusing. Or what else do you mean by "chicks", you boy who obviously know how to speak the language of the ladies?

nookster
Jul 17, 2010, 10:22 AM
Why are people so angry about Consumer Reports?

Non issue, don't read it that way, if you're still not satisfied take it back and buy another opinion.

Max(IT)
Jul 17, 2010, 10:24 AM
It is funny for all who's been saying that they should ignore CR's recommendation. If, in another world, CR actually recommended the iphone 4 because it's an awesome device, those same people would be saying how fair and balanced their review is.

We accept confirming evidence and ignore evidence that goes against what we already decided to believe.

The fact of the matter is, as one poster already noted, that the CR review is the most balanced review up-to-date. They do not receive their products directly from the companies, but rather purchase it themselves so that no one can claim that they are being biased.

They have their own testing laboratories and people who specialize in the product that they are asked to review (e.g. car experts reviewing cars).

Unless someone here knows the minute details that goes into objectively testing whether the iphone 4 reception works then they don't have anything to base their opinions that CR reviews are unbalanced or wrong. In other words, can you do a better testing of the iphone 4 to show that there is no reception problem? That is, besides saying, "well, my iphone 4 works fine".

Actually, CR is very balanced, and that's why they've been around for so long. Their reputation is very good. In fact, other companies that didn't like their recommendations tried to sue them only to lose to them in court.

I understand that this is a macforum, but it's funny that despite everyone else (people other than macrumors people) feeling that the iphone 4 has reception problems, this small subset of people chooses to ignore the majority.

(By the way, I know not everyone feels that way, but you have to admit no other phone had a problem this big that there had to be a press conference about it whether it was an iphone or something else. So something is definitely wrong with the iphone 4.)

I wonder if Apple ever admits that they messed up and does a recall how many of those same people who said that nothing was wrong with their phone would actually return it for a new one.

right .... except iphone4 has no reception problems :rolleyes:

Treefu
Jul 17, 2010, 10:25 AM
Why are people so angry about Consumer Reports?

Non issue, don't read it that way, if you're still not satisfied take it back and buy another opinion.

Bad reception, you know... :D :D :D

BobVB
Jul 17, 2010, 10:32 AM
From ATT's website:
"If the equipment you purchased directly from AT&T does not meet your expectations, you may return or exchange it at any AT&T owned retail store within 30 days from the date the equipment was purchased or shipped."
"Call the number on your invoice/receipt to cancel your service. You may cancel service within 30 days from the activation date to avoid the applicable early termination fee (the "Early Termination Fee" or "ETF")."

For the device return, ATT starts counting from purchase date (if in person) or ship date (if ordered) and allows 30 days. For avoiding ETF, ATT counts from the day of service activation and allows 30 days. Lying isn't cool.

Neither is not bothering to read

1) AT&T charges a 10% restock fee on all  products, i.e., there has never been a full refund possible for AT&T customers, only 90% at best.
2)- the service activation date for existing customers is when you accept the new contract, i.e., the date you took the upgrade on line. Again, dial 611 on your AT&T phone and find out when your 30 days is up - every single person who has saying it was 'lying', 'BS', who is honest has come back and said their no penalty return date was 30 days after the ordered on line.

Your presumptive apology is preemptively accepted.

EDIT: Actually I would be curious to hear from an existing AT&T customer who ordered through  to find out when their return date is. Call 611 and find out when your return without penalty date is.  was just interfacing with the AT&T database (part of the whole ordering problem on the first day) and it wouldn't be surprising to find out that those that ordered from  are now past their 'return without ETF' charges too.

Darkroom
Jul 17, 2010, 10:38 AM
Fanboys don't feel bad
Do you remember the bully in 3rd grade that made fun of everyone
pointing out their flaws hiding their own insecurities?
Thats what most of the iphone bashers are about!.. They feel left out
they are not cool being window horrors anymore. Chicks dig Apple fanboys its a fact!!! Don't believe me this clip so represents the two voices behind most of these threads the apple supporters and the apple bashers!
In this clip who do you thing is going home tonight to love and who is going home to be by themselves. Isn't this what the real issue is? If I buy a product and think it sucks I just return it I don't spend time bashing it life is to short
http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/16/a-raging-rambling-debate-about-antennagate-followed-by-a-fanboy-intervention/

yes, i do feel left out... from being an idiot.

jesus, get a grip on reality!

Bubba Satori
Jul 17, 2010, 10:50 AM
Are there any suicide nets around Consumer Reports' offices?

weekilter
Jul 17, 2010, 10:51 AM
It's not as if anyone really takes them seriously on anything other than lawnmowers and washing machines.

Bubba Satori
Jul 17, 2010, 10:53 AM
Most Apple events are invite only.

Apple loves a tame "press".

bearboy
Jul 17, 2010, 11:02 AM
This probably wouldn't have been that big of a deal if Jobs hadn't strutted around on stage during the Iphone 4 unveiling saying that it was a "revolutionary" antenna design, then at the press conferance says "all smartphones have this problem". Seems hyopcritical to me, and according to the "hard data" the phone still drops more calls than the 3Gs.

I for one do read CR along with other reviews from other sites before making a large purchase and while I don't always buy what they rate the highest they usually point you in the direction to making an informed decision. I am though somewhat confused on why they initially rated the phone so high and then for some reason retested the phone again and now can't recommend it. You would think they would have discovered this issue in their initial evaluation.

I was one of the few that returned the Iphone 4 due to dropped calls and slow data speeds (back to using my trusty 3G). I simply couldn't justify dropping $300 on a device that doesn't deliver IMO (to the Apple store's credit they promptly returned the phone and gave me a refund).

The bottom line is if people are happy with the product and knowing what they know now about the device still can justify their purchase then all the power to them. It's their money let them do what they want with it. I still do like Apple products but from now on will be a little more restrained on purchasing their stuff before doing the research first.

MagnusVonMagnum
Jul 17, 2010, 11:03 AM
Wow. This seems to be the fanboy sound-off thread against common sense and reasonable complaints about something that is obviously a defect in the iPhone4 and which some of us are GLAD to know about BEFORE we buy a phone that will drop calls unless I hold the phone upside down of with my other hand. Too bad if my fingers start to cramp from keeping them spread around that antenna (maybe Apple should mark the spot on the outside so people know not to touch it there lest their callers drop). Apparently, if you're not drinking Apple Super Kool-Aid, your publication is worthless or only read by old people according to the usual fanatics. :rolleyes:

Apple seems to want to be a company that makes tech stuff for non-tech people, but I'll never understand what garners this groupie-like hysteria and unreasonable loyalty beyond all logical bounds. Yes, iPhone was a ground-breaking cool super phone and the same for the iPod touch as a hand-held tech device, but time moves on and Apple isn't the only player out there. If they cannot manage to make a phone that doesn't drop calls just by holding it naturally, all that coolness doesn't do you much good.

UK-MacAddict
Jul 17, 2010, 11:03 AM
As far as you're concerned, posting a picture is not necessary :)

Another user who has his head up Steves ass. Its stupid people like you who accept these flaws and say its ok hes giving a free case and quotes some figures which makes Apple less bothered about providing an actual fix.

Richard L
Jul 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
I thought it odd that Apple were pushing the bumper collar to go around the iPhone 4 before they even had the iPhone 4 on the market; as soon as there was reference to signal drop to my mind the answer was obvious - Apple must have known in advance there was a problem and this was a way to relieve it. After all if you are going to have a metal antenna around the outside and it will be held in the palm of a moist hand there is almost bound to be a potential problem.

I did buy the bumper sleeve and I have my iPhone 4, yes the signal drops if I don't put the sleeve on but also drops with it on but not as much!

Would I change the phone? No chance!

I have had many PDA's over the years, the iPhone is the best such I have ever had, and I would recommend it to anyone whatever Consumer Reports may say. Perhaps though Apple should have been a little more open about the problem in the first place as I think they must have known of it before releasing it. It is though a great device and this is a minor issue which some just love winding up!

Richard L
Jul 17, 2010, 11:20 AM
My back is not supple enough to get my head where you suggest it has been! The signal drop is minor so far as I am concerned, I have had and still have other phones and different makes and get greater signal drops from those than with the iPhone 4. Compared to the iPhone 3G and 3GS the 4 is picking up a signal where the other two do not no matter what hand I hold it in - and I have tried them at the same time in the same location.

hyperDoc
Jul 17, 2010, 11:23 AM
iPhone users are too cool to read CR . If something wouldn't be reviewed by cnet, I won't be interested in buying it

BernardSG
Jul 17, 2010, 11:26 AM
Another user who has his head up Steves ass. Its stupid people like you who accept these flaws and say its ok hes giving a free case and quotes some figures which makes Apple less bothered about providing an actual fix.

I don't know what you have up your butt, but it seems quite strong. On each of your posts I've read you've been insulting people. Way to make your points look reasonable.
Keep up the good work!

SeniorGato1
Jul 17, 2010, 11:27 AM
I've subscribed to them for years and always rely on their recommendations, particularly when car shopping.

I'm glad they're sticking to their guns about it. Apple admitted their phone drops more calls than 3GS, and the bumper expiration date of 9/30 is total BS.

What happens on 9/30? Rev B iPhone with a revised antenna design?

I'm glad I returned mine!

mackhydr4
Jul 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
Wow. This seems to be the fanboy sound-off thread against common sense and reasonable complaints about something that is obviously a defect in the iPhone4 and which some of us are GLAD to know about BEFORE we buy a phone that will drop calls unless I hold the phone upside down of with my other hand. Too bad if my fingers start to cramp from keeping them spread around that antenna (maybe Apple should mark the spot on the outside so people know not to touch it there lest their callers drop). Apparently, if you're not drinking Apple Super Kool-Aid, your publication is worthless or only read by old people according to the usual fanatics. :rolleyes:

Apple seems to want to be a company that makes tech stuff for non-tech people, but I'll never understand what garners this groupie-like hysteria and unreasonable loyalty beyond all logical bounds. Yes, iPhone was a ground-breaking cool super phone and the same for the iPod touch as a hand-held tech device, but time moves on and Apple isn't the only player out there. If they cannot manage to make a phone that doesn't drop calls just by holding it naturally, all that coolness doesn't do you much good.

Yawn...

mackhydr4
Jul 17, 2010, 11:29 AM
I've subscribed to them for years and always rely on their recommendations, particularly when car shopping.

I'm glad they're sticking to their guns about it. Apple admitted their phone drops more calls than 3GS, and the bumper expiration date of 9/30 is total BS.

What happens on 9/30? Rev B iPhone with a revised antenna design?

I'm glad I returned mine!

Get a Droid!

intervenient
Jul 17, 2010, 11:31 AM
Good move by CR. Shows some balls.

BernardSG
Jul 17, 2010, 11:33 AM
I've subscribed to them for years and always rely on their recommendations, particularly when car shopping.

I'm glad they're sticking to their guns about it. Apple admitted their phone drops more calls than 3GS, and the bumper expiration date of 9/30 is total BS.

What happens on 9/30? Rev B iPhone with a revised antenna design?

I'm glad I returned mine!

I dare you to post your return receipt on here... or a proof of purchase of your iPhone 4 in the first place.
:)

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 11:35 AM
Why Apple doesn't just fix the damned iPhone 4. It drops calls, period, any way you look at it, iPhone 4 drops a lot of calls!

Sure Apple is not perfect, neither is iPhone 4.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/17/rim-co-ceos-pull-no-punches-responding-to-apples-antenna-statem/

I'm sure glad mine isn't dropping any calls. I would hate to be one of the hundred(s) out of 3million that might actually be dropping calls. Consumer Reports did nothing to prove anything. They would have needed to take this phone out in the wild and use it as a phone for a day and document their results before I would believe anything they have published. The cold hard truth that everyone is ignoring because of such disdain and hatred for Apple, is that out in the real world where the truth counts, this phone is flat out better than every other iPhone on all accounts. I could really care less how my phone works in an isolation chamber, because that's not where I plan on using my phone, and for the past 3 weeks, have not needed to use my phone one either. Bogus testing by Consumer Reports, and foolishness from everyone that believes otherwise.

Tor Eckman
Jul 17, 2010, 11:37 AM
Apple seems to want to be a company that makes tech stuff for non-tech people, but I'll never understand what garners this groupie-like hysteria and unreasonable loyalty beyond all logical bounds. Yes, iPhone was a ground-breaking cool super phone and the same for the iPod touch as a hand-held tech device, but time moves on and Apple isn't the only player out there. If they cannot manage to make a phone that doesn't drop calls just by holding it naturally, all that coolness doesn't do you much good.

Yes, those of us who like the phone are idiots -- is that what you want to hear? Feel better? Now really, I love mine and my wife loves hers. I think all of this is getting blown way out of proportion -- my reception is better everywhere than with my previous iPhone. Apple still can't keep up with demand, so most people feel more like me than you -- not all of them are "fanboys," either. I have used Linux and FreeBSD exclusively for the past 10 years (I recently switched to Imacs at home and work), and I am sick of the fragmentation and incompatibility. Android is and is going to have the same fragmentation issues as Linux. Still the competition is great.

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 11:37 AM
I dare you to post your return receipt on here... or a proof of purchase of your iPhone 4 in the first place.
:)
+1 Says he won't do it!

thinkingbricks
Jul 17, 2010, 11:39 AM
consumer reports has a HUGE problem on their hands:

consumer reports must issue non-recommendations for other phones with antennae problems or they face integrity issues

mackhydr4
Jul 17, 2010, 11:48 AM
Yes, those of us who like the phone are idiots -- is that what you want to hear? Feel better? Now really, I love mine and my wife loves hers. I think all of this is getting blown way out of proportion -- my reception is better everywhere than with my previous iPhone. Apple still can't keep up with demand, so most people feel more like me than you -- not all of them are "fanboys," either. I have used Linux and FreeBSD exclusively for the past 10 years (I recently switched to Imacs at home and work), and I am sick of the fragmentation and incompatibility. Android is and is going to have the same fragmentation issues as Linux. Still the competition is great.

Yeah- I don't know which one is worst...

Trolls who outright hate the Apple/iPhone,

Or the people that own Apple products but have entitlement issues(I love Apple but his "x" is the last straw!)

Both are downright annoying-

dogie678
Jul 17, 2010, 11:51 AM
Get a Droid!

Droid X and Droid Incredible also suffers from the Death Grip.

alhedges
Jul 17, 2010, 11:55 AM
Consumer Reports did nothing to prove anything. They would have needed to take this phone out in the wild and use it as a phone for a day and document their results before I would believe anything they have published. The cold hard truth that everyone is ignoring because of such disdain and hatred for Apple, is that out in the real world where the truth counts, this phone is flat out better than every other iPhone on all accounts. I could really care less how my phone works in an isolation chamber, because that's not where I plan on using my phone, and for the past 3 weeks, have not needed to use my phone one either. Bogus testing by Consumer Reports, and foolishness from everyone that believes otherwise.
Whoever said that fanboyism was a mental illness should win some sort of "best post of the year" award.

Even *Steve* said that the IP4 consistently has more dropped calls than the 3GS. Is Steve a "hater," too? Are his numbers bogus?

Of course, all Steve told us was that it dropped one more call in a 100 over the 3GS, without the context to allow us to know how much worse it was. If the 3GS drops 1 call in a 100, the IP4's reception is 100% worse. Twice as bad.

If the 3GS drops 2 calls in a 100, the IP4 is only 50% worse. 10 calls in 100, then it's 10% worse. (Although if you are dropping that many calls, you probably should get another phone).

These are Steve's numbers, not CRs.

And the problem with all of the mindless fanboy bashing of CR is that you miss how good, and how balanced, the CR review actually was. (And of course conveniently ignore that this purportedly biased source has *always* rated the iPhone as the best phone, and has - in the past 4-5 years, anyway, always recommended a mac and reported on the fact that it has the highest customer satisfaction rating of all computers.

CR tested the phone and found that, in general, it was the best phone on the market. But they also found a significant drop off in reception when you touched the antenna gap, enough to cause you to drop a call in a weak area. This was replicated on three phones, but didn't show up on a 3GS or a Palm Pre.

So notwithstanding the fact that the IP4 is *generally* the best phone on the market, because the antenna defect will affect some non-trivial number of users, CR decided that they wouldn't recommend the IP4. CR also noted that you could alleviate the problem by using a bumper.

This is completely balanced and reasonable. If you don't have the antenna problem and believe that the IP4 is the best phone on the market - congratulations, CR agrees with you. If you don't mind using a case with your phone, CR agrees that you will have the best phone on the market.

So the CR bashing is really just sort of mindless. CR has found that a certain consumer product has a flaw that will affect some users, so they won't recommend it. It's not like they are saying that you have a flaw.

dpinchot
Jul 17, 2010, 11:57 AM
Really, this is a non-issue. If you are happy with your iPhone 4, as I am, keep it. If not, return it. Simple.

Why all the fuss? Because Apple sold three million of them and the rest of the mobile world is scared ********. Fanboys? Just because we love our iPhones we are called FanBoys? Fine. But I will keep my phone, and enjoy it all the more knowing how pissed off it makes the rest of the mobile world.

I have been using PDA's in one form or the other since my first psion. I can tell your, the iPhone 4 is the best phone/PDA that I have ever used. And you know what? The greatest thing about living in this wonderful country is we have choice. For those who hate the iPhone 4, please exercise your right to buy what you want, and leave the rest of us happy iPhone users alone to enjoy our phone without your misguided pontifications.

vlug
Jul 17, 2010, 11:59 AM
Well done to Consumer Reports, as a UK customer who has reluctantly returned his phone due to the Antenna Issue I am glad some companies have the balls to stand up to Apple rather than sit on the fence or defend them so they don't get cut out of the loop.

Apple wouldn't have designed and now given a free bumper to customers if there wasn't a fault here. My iPhone 3GS which I am back to using doesn't have any signal issue's at my house so why did my iPhone 4.

Apple screwed up and have lied in the faces of their customers. I have emailed Apple a detailed report of how my 3GS performs on 3G speeds at my desk at home yet my iPhone 4 doesn't even with the bumper I bought on launch day. Bet I don't get a response. The phone is defect and I hope more companies and now Apple have finally released a proper statement customers will show their feelings by returning their phones like me and not recommending the iPhone 4 until apple release a proper hardware fix.

thinkingbricks
Jul 17, 2010, 12:00 PM
iPhone 4's problem easily solved w/ a covering

other phones' antennae problems can't be solved at all!

mackhydr4
Jul 17, 2010, 12:00 PM
Droid X and Droid Incredible also suffers from the Death Grip.

If it means one less Apple pest, by all means!

vlug
Jul 17, 2010, 12:01 PM
iPhone 4's problem easily solved w/ a covering

other phones' antennae problems can't be solved at all!

Wrong, it doesn't solve my issues with the black bumper I purchased.

bearboy
Jul 17, 2010, 12:03 PM
Whoever said that fanboyism was a mental illness should win some sort of "best post of the year" award.

Even *Steve* said that the IP4 consistently has more dropped calls than the 3GS. Is Steve a "hater," too? Are his numbers bogus?

Of course, all Steve told us was that it dropped one more call in a 100 over the 3GS, without the context to allow us to know how much worse it was. If the 3GS drops 1 call in a 100, the IP4's reception is 100% worse. Twice as bad.

If the 3GS drops 2 calls in a 100, the IP4 is only 50% worse. 10 calls in 100, then it's 10% worse. (Although if you are dropping that many calls, you probably should get another phone).

These are Steve's numbers, not CRs.

And the problem with all of the mindless fanboy bashing of CR is that you miss how good, and how balanced, the CR review actually was. (And of course conveniently ignore that this purportedly biased source has *always* rated the iPhone as the best phone, and has - in the past 4-5 years, anyway, always recommended a mac and reported on the fact that it has the highest customer satisfaction rating of all computers.

CR tested the phone and found that, in general, it was the best phone on the market. But they also found a significant drop off in reception when you touched the antenna gap, enough to cause you to drop a call in a weak area. This was replicated on three phones, but didn't show up on a 3GS or a Palm Pre.

So notwithstanding the fact that the IP4 is *generally* the best phone on the market, because the antenna defect will affect some non-trivial number of users, CR decided that they wouldn't recommend the IP4. CR also noted that you could alleviate the problem by using a bumper.

This is completely balanced and reasonable. If you don't have the antenna problem and believe that the IP4 is the best phone on the market - congratulations, CR agrees with you. If you don't mind using a case with your phone, CR agrees that you will have the best phone on the market.

So the CR bashing is really just sort of mindless. CR has found that a certain consumer product has a flaw that will affect some users, so they won't recommend it. It's not like they are saying that you have a flaw.


Excellent post!

mackhydr4
Jul 17, 2010, 12:05 PM
Wrong, it doesn't solve my issues with the black bumper I purchased.

The final decision is still yours to make.

Ryanalogy
Jul 17, 2010, 12:06 PM
What I don't understand is why people continue to ignore the part of his press conference where it shows the same bar dropping problem across multiple types of smart phones. People are being so stupid about ignoring that and aiming their guns at the iPhone. It seems as if people are acting as if no other phone drops calls, and no other service allows for dropped calls. Give me a freaking break. How about consumers stop complaining about a problem that is found on all phones and simply understand that mobile phone technology is still an imperfect, black magic concept where lots of work needs to happen before they even come close to being mostly reliable. Take also a good look at the fact that Apple is still trying to fix a problem that is happening to all other phones while being willing to take a multi-million dollar hit to give all the whiny babies out there a free case. Stop attacking the company as if they make faulty products for a problem that is more apparent with this revision of the phone than the previous model and is (as seen in the press conference) still prevelant in the competitors phones.

I have this mysterious problem on my iPhone 4. But, it has never happened when I hold the phone with my mere pinky down there on "the spot." I have to hold it with a "death grip" in either hand, without my case, for it to happen. But here's the kicker: the damn phone still makes calls when I am gripping it like that. Lastly, don't forget that it is the "i"Phone implying that while the primary function is still as a phone (which still clearly works), it is interactive in so many more ways. Be grateful that a company like Apple is working on this problem and that they clearly care to make it work better, even though it isn't just them that has this problem.

To the self-righteous complainers complaining about this "issue": Get over yourselves.

vlug
Jul 17, 2010, 12:08 PM
The final decision is still yours to make.

Already made I have returned it and I'm using my 3GS again. It's not like I'm a Android fan here to bash Apple. My first iPhone was the 3GS and I love it hence why I purchased my iPhone 4 on launch day and queued for about 7 hours.

I would love to purchase the iPhone 4 again if Apple revised the hardware which is what they should of announced yesterday in my opinion. Giving free bumpers is just a band aid.

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 12:12 PM
Whoever said that fanboyism was a mental illness should win some sort of "best post of the year" award.

Even *Steve* said that the IP4 consistently has more dropped calls than the 3GS. Is Steve a "hater," too? Are his numbers bogus?

Of course, all Steve told us was that it dropped one more call in a 100 over the 3GS, without the context to allow us to know how much worse it was. If the 3GS drops 1 call in a 100, the IP4's reception is 100% worse. Twice as bad.

If the 3GS drops 2 calls in a 100, the IP4 is only 50% worse. 10 calls in 100, then it's 10% worse. (Although if you are dropping that many calls, you probably should get another phone).

These are Steve's numbers, not CRs.

And the problem with all of the mindless fanboy bashing of CR is that you miss how good, and how balanced, the CR review actually was. (And of course conveniently ignore that this purportedly biased source has *always* rated the iPhone as the best phone, and has - in the past 4-5 years, anyway, always recommended a mac and reported on the fact that it has the highest customer satisfaction rating of all computers.

CR tested the phone and found that, in general, it was the best phone on the market. But they also found a significant drop off in reception when you touched the antenna gap, enough to cause you to drop a call in a weak area. This was replicated on three phones, but didn't show up on a 3GS or a Palm Pre.

So notwithstanding the fact that the IP4 is *generally* the best phone on the market, because the antenna defect will affect some non-trivial number of users, CR decided that they wouldn't recommend the IP4. CR also noted that you could alleviate the problem by using a bumper.

This is completely balanced and reasonable. If you don't have the antenna problem and believe that the IP4 is the best phone on the market - congratulations, CR agrees with you. If you don't mind using a case with your phone, CR agrees that you will have the best phone on the market.

So the CR bashing is really just sort of mindless. CR has found that a certain consumer product has a flaw that will affect some users, so they won't recommend it. It's not like they are saying that you have a flaw.

Well written response, Steve said the dropped call rate on the iP4, was worse than on the 3GS but by less than 1 additional dropped call per 100. Agreed that you can really conclude that it could be up by a smaller margin, or that it could be up by a substantial margin. Since AT&T won't allow the actual numbers to be posted, I guess all we can do is speculate. However it makes no sense to rate the iP4 the best smart phone while not being able to actually recommend it. If other phones are suffering from the same antenna attenuation as Steve claims and as seen on YouTube, what makes those phones any different from the iPhone. It just seems like because of the popularity of the iPhone, it's flaws get pointed out more easily while other phones suffering the same fate pass by unnoticed. I just think fanboys on either side of the fence can get out of hand at times. When Engadget was posting issues with the EVO, EVERYONE threw up a stink. However now that it's all about the iPhone everyone has a "See I told you so!" mentality, and it's just so ridiculous.

mackhydr4
Jul 17, 2010, 12:13 PM
Already made I have returned it and I'm using my 3GS again. It's not like I'm a Android fan here to bash Apple. My first iPhone was the 3GS and I love it hence why I purchased my iPhone 4 on launch day and queued for about 7 hours.

I would love to purchase the iPhone 4 again if Apple revised the hardware which is what they should of announced yesterday in my opinion. Giving free bumpers is just a band aid.

Good move! At least this is honest-

I was already aware of the issue before I bought mine (iPhone 4) and my father in law's. We are lucky enough to have good coverage and we don't have the issues.

My beef with other users is where to draw the line. Does the dog still need to be kicked repeatedly while it's down? This is becoming the Baby Jessica/Elian Gonzales/Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill of 2010.

But of course, I don't expect anything less. Someone will take a spin on this comment and paint their own reality distortion field.

There is a problem, yes. But a farce is a farce.

heisetax
Jul 17, 2010, 12:14 PM
go figure, I never listen to consumer reports anyway......grandma's and 50+ yr olds do.

Consumer Reports has had a leaning in politics that is not to my liking. They also has shown that they do not follow the facts when they test many items. They rat Japanese autos ahead of US autos even when the US auto is better. Their handling of the iPhone deal is just like old business for them. Most of the time they appear to be paid off.

You better check your facts about who listens to Consumer Reports. I didn't when I was in the "young" age group that you claim to be in or the grandma's & 50+ yr olds group.

dogie678
Jul 17, 2010, 12:16 PM
Fact: 1.77 % return rate


this is a non issue for 99% of iPhone 4 owners

DMann
Jul 17, 2010, 12:17 PM
Droid X and Droid Incredible also suffers from the Death Grip.

Will CR continue its signal testing with all models now, instead of singling out one specifically?

They were quick to re-evaluate the iPhone 4, without doing their usual & customary due diligence, to compare and evaluate this issue against other devices.

It appears that CR has adopted a defensive position only for the benefit of their reputation/image, but stops short of following through with their newly founded scrutiny.

If you're going to evaluate a phone based upon signal loss due to holding it, make this a standard for all.

ChrisTX
Jul 17, 2010, 12:20 PM
Will CR continue its signal testing with all models now, instead of singling out one specifically?

They were quick to re-evaluate the iPhone 4, without doing their usual & customary due diligence, to compare and evaluate this issue against other devices.

It appears that CR has adopted a defensive position only for the benefit of their reputation/image, but stops short of following through with their newly founded scrutiny.

If you're going to evaluate a phone based upon signal loss due to holding it, make this a standard for all.
BINGO! I want CR to do the same testing to the leading Android Phones, Blackberry, and on down the line. After it is only fair.

silentnite
Jul 17, 2010, 12:20 PM
Good for Consumer Reports. The bumper is nothing but a band-aid. I don't/didn't need a bumper or a case for my 3GS, 3G, 2G. Why for the iPhone 4?

I agree this is nothing more than a band aid, why should you need a plastic band for such a nice new and improved iphone 4. We don't look to apple to be the same as all the others we look to apple to be different & better. I could hear that type of statement coming from Bill gates, oh just just put a plastic band around it. or some other company. With that said I still stand with apple but they have to pull it together before moving forward.

DMann
Jul 17, 2010, 12:23 PM
BINGO! I want CR to do the same testing to the leading Android Phones, Blackberry, and on down the line. After it is only fair.

True, publicly exclaiming: "The Emperor has no clothes," while the royalty of all other nations are naked, hardly seems impartial here.