Consumer Reports Still Not Recommending iPhone 4

[SeniorGato1]

+1 Says he won't do it!

Won't waste my with this, but feel free to look at my other posts.

[BobVB]

Well written response, Steve said the dropped call rate on the iP4, was worse than on the 3GS but by less than 1 additional dropped call per 100. Agreed that you can really conclude that it could be up by a smaller margin, or that it could be up by a substantial margin.
Correct if people living in affected areas are just 10% of the total (I know if I lived just 4 miles to the north I can't get below 5 bars if I put the phone in a can), then that 1% is 10%+ of dropped calls over before, since the national average is 1.5% dropped calls that would mean that 10% was getting 11 or 12% dropped calls, not counting all the ones that just didn't connect and went straight to voicemail as many are complaining. Yesterday was Deceit with Statistics 101 - take a smaller group significant problem and dilute it over a much larger group to trivialize it.

However it makes no sense to rate the iP4 the best smart phone while not being able to actually recommend it. If other phones are suffering from the same antenna attenuation as Steve claims and as seen on YouTube, what makes those phones any different from the iPhone.
Well because none of those other phones suffer the problem with a single touch of a fingertip. Again, Lying 101 - erect a strawman (this is just normal antenna attenuation) and stick with it no matter what the truth is. Tell the Big Lie often enough and people accept it as true.

The 'fingertip' antenna problem could have been prevented with NO significant loss of reception by the unit by merely coating the stainless steel band in a thin layer of clear polymer. They messed up and are lying, prevaricating, and selling their souls rather than just be honest, fess up to the error, and really fixing it.

I mean look on the website - they sell the bumpers with neither promise of better reception or better protection - they are being sold as 'fashion statements'.

Again, the Romans thought that the soul resided in the liver, obviously Steve's new one is a bad one.

[mackhydr4]

Fact: 1.77 % return rate


this is a non issue for 99% of iPhone 4 owners

Unfortunately, even a fraction of 1% (plus the non-legit iPhone users) are the most vocal and easily manipulated by the media hype.

More of the 99% should post their experiences. But I suspect most don't care and are simply enjoying their phones. It's not like they're missing anything anyway.

[vlug]

Good move! At least this is honest-

I was already aware of the issue before I bought mine (iPhone 4) and my father in law's. We are lucky enough to have good coverage and we don't have the issues.

My beef with other users is where to draw the line. Does the dog still need to be kicked repeatedly while it's down? This is becoming the Baby Jessica/Elian Gonzales/Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill of 2010.

But of course, I don't expect anything less. Someone will take a spin on this comment and paint their own reality distortion field.

There is a problem, yes. But a farce is a farce.

The real issue I have is my mobile network is o2 and the mobile mast is 400 meters up the road on the edge of a roundabout. I get full 3G speeds on my 3GS and I did get full 3G speeds on my iPhone 4. But as soon as I pick the phone up on the iP4 the 3G drops to edge and then nothing and my web browsing is non existent.

I have had no dropped calls with the iP4 but I have had people say the line is bad. But I am literally meters from the mobile phone mast and my 3GS doesn't have any issues at all.

It was clear to me it was hardware related straight away due to my circumstances. I have emailed this to Apple and got no response.

[BobVB]

Fact: 1.77 % return rate

this is a non issue for 99% of iPhone 4 owners

HA! Then I guess that 1% more dropped calls for the entire group means that 1% is getting more than 100% dropped calls. :)

[ntrigue]

I encourage anyone that experiences reception drop or hasn't seen more than three bars since 4.0.1 to use the above number.

Their data stating 0.55% of users call into AppleCare may be accurate, but it is not precise.

[drbroom]

Consumer Reports knows a lot about a lot but "high" tech is not one of them... I read CR, I use there website when ever I am going to purchase an appliance or need good details on recalls or TVs. However when it comes to "high end" items like expensive anything their default position is "don't buy it".

I am also a huge sports car fan and a bit of an audiophile... If you ever read one story about good cars where they have recommend any of the Audis or Porches as a "Good Buy"? Show me one story on well designed home automation like what SAVANT offers (as to Crestron they would be correct them BTW (personal crack)).

I will also leave you with this last bit of data... CR's readership is down! People are not re-uping their subscriptions. If they do not create news for themselves how will anyone still think them relevant? I do think they are BTW just not when it come to HIGH END items! And let's face it the iPhone IS! The iphone is not your cheap **** blackberry that you have to reboot 3 to 5 times a day, and use as many keystrokes to get anything done...

Just my $0.02

[mackhydr4]

The real issue I have is my mobile network is o2 and the mobile mast is 400 meters up the road on the edge of a roundabout. I get full 3G speeds on my 3GS and I did get full 3G speeds on my iPhone 4. But as soon as I pick the phone up on the iP4 the 3G drops to edge and then nothing and my web browsing is non existent.

I have had no dropped calls with the iP4 but I have had people say the line is bad. But I am literally meters from the mobile phone mast and my 3GS doesn't have any issues at all.

It was clear to me it was hardware related straight away due to my circumstances. I have emailed this to Apple and got no response.

This is one of the few intelligent response I have heard so far- and it is not because you are saying something I want to hear.

Apple is not perfect. Current proposed solutions have not addressed the problem to many people's satisfaction. I do hope they come out on top by September.

I am sorry for the non response from Apple. I rarely call tech support for any gadgets I own because of the frustration of wait times and lack of response. I just return the offending product (truth be told, I probably have more luck with electronics, so that makes me the dream customer I guess).

[kallisti]

Already made I have returned it and I'm using my 3GS again. It's not like I'm a Android fan here to bash Apple. My first iPhone was the 3GS and I love it hence why I purchased my iPhone 4 on launch day and queued for about 7 hours.

I would love to purchase the iPhone 4 again if Apple revised the hardware which is what they should of announced yesterday in my opinion. Giving free bumpers is just a band aid.

Just out of curiosity. Did you return it because you were actually dropping calls or did you return it because "it's flawed?"

[vlug]

Just out of curiosity. Did you return it because you were actually dropping calls or did you return it because "it's flawed?"

I returned it because when its held I cant use the internet/3G. EDIT* I had 0 dropped calls but I did have bad reception at the recipients end not mine.

I literally have to hold it with the tips of my fingers at the top of the phone when using twitter/IM progs or browsing websites or my hand stops the 3G working.

I use my iPhone a lot for internet usage and even with the bumper it doesn't help. Yet if I lye the phone on the desk and use the internet it works fine.

[Dracula8726]

If Apple states that the 3 other big smart phones has the same exact issues with the antenna then why does Consumer Reports support these phones?

Can someone please confirm that these (BB Bold, Driod Eris & Omnia II) are recommended on CR site. Somebody is lying to us? Either CR is trying to get more subscribers or the Apple testing facility is fictious and was created for this 'antennagate'.

[fkntotalkaos]

waiting list for my iphone 4 going on 3 weeks, NJ apple sore:confused:

[mackhydr4]

waiting list for my iphone 4 going on 3 weeks, NJ apple sore:confused:

Reserving from an Apple Store seems much faster (got mine within 4 days) than from online. I was skeptical at first, so I also ordered from AT&T (arrived within 8 days). I couldn't back out of the AT&T preorder because of their processing method (their RMA is a dirty process and would have resulted in more furstration). So I gave the Apple Store version to my father-in-law (he expressed interest in my 3GS) and kept the AT&T one.

I would check out an Apple Store and see if they have one in stock. They also seem to be more able to cancel the online order (at least from what the sales rep told me) if they can get you one sooner.

[BobVB]

If Apple states that the 3 other big smart phones has the same exact issues with the antenna then why does Consumer Reports support these phones?
Because  lied - not a single one of those phones loses signal like that from the touch of a single finger.

Apple testing facility is fictious and was created for this 'antennagate'.
OR what  showed wasn't what CR was talking about, which is indeed the case.

[mackhydr4]

Because  lied - not a single one of those phones loses signal like that from the touch of a single finger.


OR what  showed wasn't what CR was talking about, which is indeed the case.

Apple could have waited until the phone was perfect (or didn't drop phone calls), but this would have resulted in vaporware (delay).

Faced with potential non-issue from the 99% (or whatever actual percent it is- we can even make this 50/50) and deliver the phone as is,

or

wait until the phone is perfect to please the other 1% percent (I highly doubt everyone can be pleased).

Which business decision would you make?

[bearboy]

What I don't understand is why people continue to ignore the part of his press conference where it shows the same bar dropping problem across multiple types of smart phones. People are being so stupid about ignoring that and aiming their guns at the iPhone. It seems as if people are acting as if no other phone drops calls, and no other service allows for dropped calls. Give me a freaking break. How about consumers stop complaining about a problem that is found on all phones and simply understand that mobile phone technology is still an imperfect, black magic concept where lots of work needs to happen before they even come close to being mostly reliable. Take also a good look at the fact that Apple is still trying to fix a problem that is happening to all other phones while being willing to take a multi-million dollar hit to give all the whiny babies out there a free case. Stop attacking the company as if they make faulty products for a problem that is more apparent with this revision of the phone than the previous model and is (as seen in the press conference) still prevelant in the competitors phones.

I have this mysterious problem on my iPhone 4. But, it has never happened when I hold the phone with my mere pinky down there on "the spot." I have to hold it with a "death grip" in either hand, without my case, for it to happen. But here's the kicker: the damn phone still makes calls when I am gripping it like that. Lastly, don't forget that it is the "i"Phone implying that while the primary function is still as a phone (which still clearly works), it is interactive in so many more ways. Be grateful that a company like Apple is working on this problem and that they clearly care to make it work better, even though it isn't just them that has this problem.

To the self-righteous complainers complaining about this "issue": Get over yourselves.


Yes you are right almost all smart phones have reception issues. But I think what is pissing people off is that after Jobs did his song and dance about how great and innovative the new phone is he does an about-face and says "well it's innovative but not innovative enough to keep people from dropping calls, and yes it drops more calls than the previous model". Then has the stones to show us that video of a couple of Apple's competitors dropping bars as well (which if I was one of those companies would be royally pissed).

I've seen the Youtube videos of the Droid X, EVO and Nexus when held a certain way drop bars, but with a majority of those phones you have to grip in a very peculiar way in order to get them to drop.

[BobVB]

Apple could have waited until the phone was perfect (or didn't drop phone calls), but this would have resulted in vaporware (delay)…

…Which business decision would you make?
or just coated the stainless steel with plastic - your choice is a false one.

[fifthworld]

Seems that philosophy works in politics.

You are talking manipulation, not communication.

[Treefu]

Whoever said that fanboyism was a mental illness should win some sort of "best post of the year" award.

Even *Steve* said that the IP4 consistently has more dropped calls than the 3GS. Is Steve a "hater," too? Are his numbers bogus?

Of course, all Steve told us was that it dropped one more call in a 100 over the 3GS, without the context to allow us to know how much worse it was. If the 3GS drops 1 call in a 100, the IP4's reception is 100% worse. Twice as bad.

If the 3GS drops 2 calls in a 100, the IP4 is only 50% worse. 10 calls in 100, then it's 10% worse. (Although if you are dropping that many calls, you probably should get another phone).

These are Steve's numbers, not CRs.

And the problem with all of the mindless fanboy bashing of CR is that you miss how good, and how balanced, the CR review actually was. (And of course conveniently ignore that this purportedly biased source has *always* rated the iPhone as the best phone, and has - in the past 4-5 years, anyway, always recommended a mac and reported on the fact that it has the highest customer satisfaction rating of all computers.

CR tested the phone and found that, in general, it was the best phone on the market. But they also found a significant drop off in reception when you touched the antenna gap, enough to cause you to drop a call in a weak area. This was replicated on three phones, but didn't show up on a 3GS or a Palm Pre.

So notwithstanding the fact that the IP4 is *generally* the best phone on the market, because the antenna defect will affect some non-trivial number of users, CR decided that they wouldn't recommend the IP4. CR also noted that you could alleviate the problem by using a bumper.

This is completely balanced and reasonable. If you don't have the antenna problem and believe that the IP4 is the best phone on the market - congratulations, CR agrees with you. If you don't mind using a case with your phone, CR agrees that you will have the best phone on the market.

So the CR bashing is really just sort of mindless. CR has found that a certain consumer product has a flaw that will affect some users, so they won't recommend it. It's not like they are saying that you have a flaw.

Bra-vo! Post like yours make it worth trudging through all of the whining about the whining. Not that I know why anyone with a working product is so eager to tell the world about it - is it that unexpected?

[Treefu]

Apple could have waited until the phone was perfect (or didn't drop phone calls), but this would have resulted in vaporware (delay).

Faced with potential non-issue from the 99% (or whatever actual percent it is- we can even make this 50/50) and deliver the phone as is,

or

wait until the phone is perfect to please the other 1% percent (I highly doubt everyone can be pleased).

Which business decision would you make?

Heaven forbid we should have to wait until fall to have new, working iPhones. It's not like Apple isn't making money fast enough any way...

Gimme more, gimme more... gimme, gimme...

[mackhydr4]

or just coated the stainless steel with plastic - your choice is a false one.

But what if the plastic doesn't resolve it? What then? Someone here just mentioned that adding a bumper didn't resolve his issue with the phone.

[fifthworld]

I dare you to post your return receipt on here... or a proof of purchase of your iPhone 4 in the first place.
:)

Yep. He sounds completely fake.

[mackhydr4]

Heaven forbid we should have to wait until fall to have new, working iPhones. It's not like Apple isn't making money fast enough any way...

Gimme more, gimme more... gimme, gimme...

People have this illusion that if only Apple listened to their opinions, all will be well-

Even if Apple could ever deliver 100% perfection, there is no accounting for trolls and media lemmings(I think the worst comments are from "loyal" Apple fans with entitlement issues). There will always be something to complain about.

Apple scerewed up. Boo-effin-hoo.

[Office Hours]

What a joke most of the posters in this thread are.

Consumer Reports doesn't hate the iPhone 4. In fact, they think it's the best phone on the market. But once they thoroughly tested the antenna problem they found it to have a serious enough hardware flaw to not recommend it until Apple fixed the problem.

They and Anandtech both did testing that found all phones suffer from some level of attenuation, nobody doubts this, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that the iPhone 4's external antenna design causes their attenuation problems to be more severe than the norm. Bare contact with the antenna is bad (making it worse than other phones) but combine it with the fact that you don't need a death grip (like other phones) but only 1 finger to create the problem, and you have a major flaw that Apple should address.

What Apple did yesterday was nothing short of straight propaganda.

They said: All phones suffer attenuation.
The truth: the iPhone 4 suffers more from attenuation.

They ignored the core issue completely and are now spewing PR propaganda and guess what? The other companies are now fighting back with statements. Apple F'd up on this and I expect RIM, HTC and others to now do thorough testing that will expose raw data showing the truth.

I'm not going to act like the iPhone 4 is completely unusable but I have no doubt that Apple crossed an acceptable threshold when they chose this antenna design. Watch the next iPhone not even have an external antenna.

[BobVB]

But what if the plastic doesn't resolve it? What then? Someone here just mentioned that adding a bumper didn't resolve his issue with the phone.
Then his issue with the phone isn't the one that CR is talking about. That any coating that prevents the 2 antennas greatly helps has been known since the first day it was discovered. You want to remove the problem CR is talking about and THEN be REALLY down to the issue of mass attenuation of the signal you'd coat the edge in continuous plastic.

If the gap is covered the huge attenuation experienced by touching a single finger to the naked gap doesn't occur, i.e. the problem that CR says prevents them from recommending the phone doesn't occur.

This convenient meandering from topic to topic trying to 'win' rather than arguing for what's true is what makes people resort to the term 'fanboy'.

Quit being an advocate for  and become one for truth and you would be much more convincing.

[Treefu]

Apple scerewed up. Boo-effin-hoo.

That they did. But if your design puts a trigger right in the middle of the users hands you sort of deserve more than a few jabs...

But it is indeed overblown in terms of seriousness. And everyone complaining because iPhone 4 got best scores from CR but not a recommendation? Talk about entitlement issues... It haz to gots it all! :p

[mackhydr4]

Then his issue with the phone isn't the one that CR is talking about. That any coating that prevents the 2 antennas greatly helps has been known since the first day it was discovered. You want to remove the problem CR is talking about and THEN be REALLY down to the issue of mass attenuation of the signal you'd coat the edge in continuous plastic.

If the gap is covered the huge attenuation experienced by touching a single finger to the naked gap doesn't occur, i.e. the problem that CR says prevents them from recommending the phone doesn't occur.

This convenient meandering from topic to topic trying to 'win' rather than arguing for what's true is what makes people resort to the term 'fanboy'.

Quit being an advocate for  and become one for truth and you would be much more convincing.

I said perfect- That means no issue to complain of. Which is not going to happen.

and quit being an advocate for the opposite side. It's just as bad.

[mackhydr4]

That they did. But if your design puts a trigger right in the middle of the users hands you sort of deserve more than a few jabs...

But it is indeed overblown in terms of seriousness. And everyone complaining because iPhone 4 got best scores from CR but not a recommendation? Talk about entitlement issues... It haz to gots it all! :p

Whether Apple deserved it or not is not really the issue. It's the people who have twisted this whole thing out of proportion (and still do).

and as long as they can't get everyone to agree (that in the end, Apple sucks), they will call you drinking the apple kool-aid or advocate for Apple.

What a crock of sugar-honey-iced-tea.

[BobVB]

I said perfect- That means no issue to complain of. Which is not going to happen.
Yes, and who exactly is requesting a 'perfect' phone? Strawman

and quit being an advocate for the opposite side. It's just as bad.

The opposite side of the truth is 'the lie' so I guess we know what side you're on.

CR is talking about a problem Steve didn't talk about yesterday and Steve knew it. Please leave your advocacy for 'the lie' and try the opposite side, really it will do your soul good.

[mackhydr4]

Yes, and who exactly is requesting a 'perfect' phone? Strawman



The opposite side of the truth is 'the lie' so I guess we know what side you're on.

CR is talking about a problem Steve didn't talk about yesterday and Steve knew it. Please leave your advocacy for 'the lie' and try the opposite side, really it will do your soul good.

Yawn...

I couldn't care less about CR or Steve Jobs opinion- I'm neither side except for the delusions people have.

Do you honestly think this ranting has done any good other than increase traffic and boost people's profiles?

Again, complaining and getting what you want is one thing. Just posting to push a personal agenda (targeted toward a forum that has no decision power over how a company runs) is a waste of time.

Good and evil? Over a phone? Get a grip.

Ooops, (lol) that's not gonna happen either.

Enjoy your delusion. I hope you've posted at other sites as well. In your head, you have made great progress against the fight over evil forces.

[Eddyisgreat]

Apple seems to want to be a company that makes tech stuff for non-tech people

elaborate

[songa]

yea i think its been blown out of proportion but i also dont buy into apples explanation. i think they wer just trying to calml the fire. the product is only the flagship for a year anyway

[BobVB]

Yawn...

I couldn't care less about CR or Steve Jobs opinion- I'm neither side except for the delusions people have.

Do you honestly think this ranting has done any good other than increase traffic and boost people's profiles?

Again, complaining and getting what you want is one thing. Just posting to push a personal agenda (targeted toward a forum that has no decision power over how a company runs) is a waste of time.
And yet you continue doing all those things, why?

Good and evil? Over a phone? Get a grip.
Who mentioned evil? Doing you 'good' just means try and exercise your capacity for honesty. Sorry that offends you.

Enjoy your delusion. I hope you've posted at other sites as well. In your head, you have made great progress against the fight over evil forces.
Let's see:
I've presented the truth - check.
Successfully refuted the lies without substantive rebuttal - check.
Made another fanboy exit stage right after lighting his hair on fire - check.

Its been a good discussion from my side I have to admit.

[mackhydr4]

yea i think its been blown out of proportion but i also dont buy into apples explanation. i think they wer just trying to calml the fire. the product is only the flagship for a year anyway

What do you propose Apple should have done?

[srxtr]

For the people who are complaining "why should we need a bumper/case for an iPhone 4 when we don't for other phones?"... do you actually own an iPhone 4?

I think 90% of the people putting down the iPhone don't own one.

You guys are blowing this issue (or non-issue) way out of line. When I went to pick up my iPhone 4 at the store a few days back I was afraid I'd get the antenna problem.

Was relieved to find out I am one of 99.45% users without the antenna problem.

[skidbubble]

They would have needed to take this phone out in the wild and use it as a phone for a day and document their results before I would believe anything they have published.

As opposed to the "wild" of Apple's spiky foam room? Nobody sits in a chair on a pole in a hundred million dollar room on a daily routine basis, sorry.

[mackhydr4]

And yet you continue doing all those things, why?


Who mentioned evil? Doing you 'good' just means try and exercise your capacity for honesty. Sorry that offends you.


Let's see:
I've presented the truth - check.
Successfully refuted the lies without substantive rebuttal - check.
Made another fanboy exit stage right after lighting his hair on fire - check.

Its been a good discussion from my side I have to admit.

It's been fun talking to you, but I have used up what little time I have.

My only true regret about buying Apple products is having to read this insanity from Apple forums. I do miss the days (if they ever existed) of simply reading reviews and enjoying(or not) the products I purchase.

The purpose of these postings is not really to resolve anything, but to simply annoy, attract attention, and boost site traffic (hence, little or no moderation).

Enjoy!

[mackhydr4]

For the people who are complaining "why should we need a bumper/case for an iPhone 4 when we don't for other phones?"... do you actually own an iPhone 4?

I think 90% of the people putting down the iPhone don't own one.

You guys are blowing this issue (or non-issue) way out of line. When I went to pick up my iPhone 4 at the store a few days back I was afraid I'd get the antenna problem.

Was relieved to find out I am one of 99.45% users without the antenna problem.

Unfortunately, very little of the 99.45% will be posting their experience. It doesn't make good news.

As a happy iPhone 4 user, I will also be bowing out of this monologue.

[Treefu]

Whether Apple deserved it or not is not really the issue. It's the people who have twisted this whole thing out of proportion (and still do).

and as long as they can't get everyone to agree (that in the end, Apple sucks), they will call you drinking the apple kool-aid or advocate for Apple.

What a crock of sugar-honey-iced-tea.

I'd say Apple twisted it when they were going to teach their users how to hold the iPhone for an oversight of design that is really a non-issue in engineering that didn't exist or whatever. Throw a little speech (and an update) about their relation to bars in there as well and most people will have a hard time following just what the hell they are really talking about.

Yeah, Apple sure did it.

[Max(IT)]

Bra-vo! Post like yours make it worth trudging through all of the whining about the whining. Not that I know why anyone with a working product is so eager to tell the world about it - is it that unexpected?

do you know why ? Because the web is full of people like you, storming every tech forum (and "incidentally" signed up after iphone 4 release date) just to bash Apple on a non-existent issue.
They gave us an explanation, and a reasonable one indeed, but people like you are not going to listen to it, because your only target is Apple iphone.

Fortunately (for Apple) out there people are using their iphone with satisfaction, and they have the choice to return it if they don't like it.

[Treefu]

do you know why ? Because the web is full of people like you, storming every tech forum (and "incidentally" signed up after iphone 4 release date) just to bash Apple on a non-existent issue.
They gave us an explanation, and a reasonable one indeed, but people like you are not going to listen to it, because your only target is Apple iphone.

Fortunately (for Apple) out there people are using their iphone with satisfaction, and they have the choice to return it if they don't like it.

As opposed to one like you, that bash those you call bashers?

Any way, Apple hasn't said anything about why they chose to put the worst spot to touch the iPhone where most people would get in contact with it. They just blabber on about their good decision of using flawed antenna technology.

Bub, your wires are crossed. Why would satisfied people want to return a phone if it's working for them? :o :D

If I want an iPhone 4 - do I have any other choice of hardware than the model they're currently selling?

[iJon]

I have noticed that since I updated to 4.0.1 I can't get the bars to drop either using the death grip or normal grip.

All is well on my iPhone.

[mixxiah]

It's always disheartening when people show their ugly side. At least it reaffirms us of the flaws in Human Nature. Some just love to Hate and will look for any excuse to do so. A world where true innovation & greatness is mocked and envied instead of praised & revered is a sad one.

Last I checked, MacRumors is a site for those who are passionate about Apple. Many of these Haters probably don't even own a Mac or use an iPhone - what meaningless lives they must lead...

FACT: All Smart-phones suffer the same anomaly; the antenna issue is (for now) inherent in every smart-phone - thus there is No problem; technology is a work-in-progress...

An analogy would be complaining that your car is not giving you 100 mpg - even while you thrash and drive it like you're in the Indy 500 - it's just not going to happen...

FACT: The iPhone is still superior in every way to the previous models and definitely superior overall to other smart-phones.

If you are really that unhappy with your iPhone, please just return it and save the rest of us some time and grief....

[JayLenochiniMac]

For the people who are complaining "why should we need a bumper/case for an iPhone 4 when we don't for other phones?"... do you actually own an iPhone 4?

I think 90% of the people putting down the iPhone don't own one.

You guys are blowing this issue (or non-issue) way out of line. When I went to pick up my iPhone 4 at the store a few days back I was afraid I'd get the antenna problem.

Was relieved to find out I am one of 99.45% users without the antenna problem.

And my personal observation has been that of the people who actually own one, 90% of them seem to have theirs in some kind of a case.

[Treefu]

An analogy would be complaining that your car is not giving you 100 mpg - even while you thrash and drive it like you're in the Indy 500 - it's just not going to happen...


If the design in placement of the brake pedal is the one thing stopping me from doing 100 mph... I don't know but I think I would like to have the car fixed.

Truth be told, I'm still waiting to see pricing in my country before I decide if it's worth it or not but I'm already slightly concerned since I only will have one choice of model, technically to choose from. That makes it completely their way or no way and I don't like to support bad design decisions with my money.

At the end of the day, it is just a phone and that works both ways (no pun intended).

[Digitalclips]

Can consumer report show us their facility where they did their tests on the iPhone 4 and line up all the specialists they have in that field.

[Digitalclips]

Unfortunately, very little of the 99.45% will be posting their experience. It doesn't make good news.

As a happy iPhone 4 user, I will also be bowing out of this monologue.

Nooo keep posting. If all happy users blog they will blow away the tiny few who are full time Apple bashers.

[mixxiah]

[QUOTE=Treefu;10571862]If the design in placement of the brake pedal is the one thing stopping me from doing 100 mph... I don't know but I think I would like to have the car fixed.

I said mpg (miles-per-gallon) not mph...

[djpuma]

My iphone 4 still has the problem.

I don't want a free bumper case especially if apple will fix the real problem when they release the next gen iphone. I and many others would really be pissed.

I'm going to take my phone to an apple store, ask for a new one, if it doesn't have the antenna issue (like mine does, very bad I might add) I will keep it, if the antenna issue is still there. I will return both iphones (one for fiance, still unopened) and move to another phone, probably a droid, or hold out for the iphone 5 or whatever is next, but I doubt I will come back to apple for phones.

I own a macbook pro and a mac pro and would never buy a pc, so I'm not some apple overnighter nor am I a fan boy. I go and get the best hardware for the money and if the iphone isn't that than I must move on.

Their conference yesterday did nothing for me, give me a phone that works and doesn't drop 20dbm when I hold it in my palm or hold it in a certain way.
If they can't do that then they lost my business as far as phones go.

[law guy]

Yikes - a lot of negativity towards Consumer Reports. That's unfortunate and reactionary. People seem to be taking an independent evaluation of antenna performance very personally.

The CR organizations position makes sense and it was hard to believe that it could have been otherwise after the Apple press event. Even within that event, Apple compared and equivocated signal loss issues between other handset when fully enclosed in a hand - the so-called "death grip" with the issue with the iPhone 4 which results from the light skin contact between two parts of the outer antenna band, a phenomenon that affects left-handed users when using the phone normally. That's what the bumper solves. The bummer puts the iPhone into the same performance issues that occur with the "death grip" but solves the light touch connection issue.

I thought that the Apple comparison was a bit misleading.

[mattnotis]

What a joke most of the posters in this thread are.

Consumer Reports doesn't hate the iPhone 4. In fact, they think it's the best phone on the market. But once they thoroughly tested the antenna problem they found it to have a serious enough hardware flaw to not recommend it until Apple fixed the problem.

They and Anandtech both did testing that found all phones suffer from some level of attenuation, nobody doubts this, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that the iPhone 4's external antenna design causes their attenuation problems to be more severe than the norm. Bare contact with the antenna is bad (making it worse than other phones) but combine it with the fact that you don't need a death grip (like other phones) but only 1 finger to create the problem, and you have a major flaw that Apple should address.

What Apple did yesterday was nothing short of straight propaganda.

They said: All phones suffer attenuation.
The truth: the iPhone 4 suffers more from attenuation.

They ignored the core issue completely and are now spewing PR propaganda and guess what? The other companies are now fighting back with statements. Apple F'd up on this and I expect RIM, HTC and others to now do thorough testing that will expose raw data showing the truth.

I'm not going to act like the iPhone 4 is completely unusable but I have no doubt that Apple crossed an acceptable threshold when they chose this antenna design. Watch the next iPhone not even have an external antenna.

Well said.:)

[alhedges]

Can consumer report show us their facility where they did their tests on the iPhone 4 and line up all the specialists they have in that field.

Stop trolling.

[rcandre2]

My iphone 4 still has the problem.

I don't want a free bumper case especially if apple will fix the real problem when they release the next gen iphone. I and many others would really be pissed.

I'm going to take my phone to an apple store, ask for a new one, if it doesn't have the antenna issue (like mine does, very bad I might add) I will keep it, if the antenna issue is still there. I will return both iphones (one for fiance, still unopened) and move to another phone, probably a droid, or hold out for the iphone 5 or whatever is next, but I doubt I will come back to apple for phones.

I own a macbook pro and a mac pro and would never buy a pc, so I'm not some apple overnighter nor am I a fan boy. I go and get the best hardware for the money and if the iphone isn't that than I must move on.

Their conference yesterday did nothing for me, give me a phone that works and doesn't drop 20dbm when I hold it in my palm or hold it in a certain way.
If they can't do that then they lost my business as far as phones go.

Well let me give you a heads up. I bought my original 32GB iPhone 4 from an Apple store on launch day in Florida. This past Thursday I exchanged the phone for a new one from an Apple store in Illinois.... still have the same problem and dropped calls. I've had the 2G, 3G and 3GS and never put a case on the phone... I hate cases. So even though I had two iPhones bought 3 weeks and 1,400 miles apart the problem is still present. Want to see something very interesting. Install the speedtest.net app on your phone and watch what happens to data download and upload speed...even when only your finger lightly covers the black gap on the lower left side of the phone. Still hanging on to exchange my phone for the white one in hopes of some sort of resolution. Best of luck!

[Minimoose 360]

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/048/957/original/megusta.jpg?1273395284

[MagnusVonMagnum]

elaborate

I thought it was obvious. Apple has always prided itself on making its products as easy to use as possible (GUI design) and this attracts a lot of people to its products that might not like the same thing in a product that is designed more for "techies". Linux is a bear in some respects, but OSX makes Unix virtually transparent. Early smart phones were a PITA, but iPhone made it so simple to use that even Grandma shouldn't have too much trouble (I know many in my family are technically inept and even they can operate my iPod Touch). That's all well and good, but trading frustration in one area (easier to use than prior smart phones and some other brands) for another (phone easily drops calls if you're not careful where you put your hand at one the phone) doesn't sit well with me. I'll wait for the next generation iPhone before I consider one.

[H. Flower]

What a joke most of the posters in this thread are.

Consumer Reports doesn't hate the iPhone 4. In fact, they think it's the best phone on the market. But once they thoroughly tested the antenna problem they found it to have a serious enough hardware flaw to not recommend it until Apple fixed the problem.

They and Anandtech both did testing that found all phones suffer from some level of attenuation, nobody doubts this, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that the iPhone 4's external antenna design causes their attenuation problems to be more severe than the norm. Bare contact with the antenna is bad (making it worse than other phones) but combine it with the fact that you don't need a death grip (like other phones) but only 1 finger to create the problem, and you have a major flaw that Apple should address.

What Apple did yesterday was nothing short of straight propaganda.

They said: All phones suffer attenuation.
The truth: the iPhone 4 suffers more from attenuation.

They ignored the core issue completely and are now spewing PR propaganda and guess what? The other companies are now fighting back with statements. Apple F'd up on this and I expect RIM, HTC and others to now do thorough testing that will expose raw data showing the truth.

I'm not going to act like the iPhone 4 is completely unusable but I have no doubt that Apple crossed an acceptable threshold when they chose this antenna design. Watch the next iPhone not even have an external antenna.

Of the thousands of posts on hundreds of pages on this topic, this is the best and most reasonable. Thank you.

[nemaslov]

Im a huge Apple fan. Have purchased countless Macs and iPods over the years. Im on my second iPhone (3GS) and have decided to wait until the fall or early next years to upgrade. I've always used a rubber case just to project every time I drop the thing. No nicks and just that added grip is good.

I feel that the iPhone 4 is stunning and would world perfectly for me. Apple made a design choice and even though they showed the other brands have some reception issues depending on your grip, the exterior antenna is a bold and someone problematic move. I'm sure it will eventually prove to be the right choice (eventually).

Anyway, now that all this crap has gone down (yes mostly media hype), I've decided to just wait for the next issue because You KNOW they will figure the mini problem out sooner than later now that it's become an issue. All eyes and ears will check the next one out.

[tdream]

I didn't see not one fact reported. The masses would agree with me.

How about the fact they didn't recommend it. Is that a fact?

[Osnabrueck]

Consumer Reports is a once-releavent brand which has recently turned to link-baiting/headline-troll tactics on the coattails of high-profile consumer interest news.

First came the credulity-stretching "Do Not Buy" alert for the Lexus GX - on the heels of the Toyota/Lexus PR fiasco.

Now comes the same following the equally overhyped iPhone 4 reception issues.

Both were smart moves on behalf of CR - It bought them lots of free press and people across the country thought to themselves "Hey, I remember Consumer Reports!"

[throttlemeister]

Why's everybody bitchin' at lefties for holding their phone in their left hand? Most right-handed people would hold their phone in their left hand and most left-handed people in their right hand. You know, so that you can hold a pen in your preferred hand and write stuff down. If anyone still knows what that is.

I want an iP4. I want one bad. It's not available here yet, but it will be July 30. But I am worried. Because the way I hold my HTC HD2 when on the phone, if I hold the iP4 like that, the palm of my hand is covering both antenna's and I might have a problem. Or I might not, because we have very high density cell coverage. But I am worried. I guess we'll have to see. It is not going to stop me from getting one, although it would seriously piss me off if they make a hardware change and fix it 2 months later.

[twoodcc]

i guess apple didn't pay them enough

[PerfSeeker]

So I understand the N-1, Droid, Droid Incredible ALL have the death-grip issue. So why should people specifically avoid the IP4 except pure maniacal hatred towards :apple:?

[TheOrioles33]

How about the fact they didn't recommend it. Is that a fact?

I recommended the ip4 to 2 people who were afraid to buy one. They are LOVING it! People need to stop reading all this crap and try it for themselves and come to their own conclusion.

So I understand the N-1, Droid, Droid Incredible ALL have the death-grip issue. So why should people specifically avoid the IP4 except pure maniacal hatred towards :apple:?

Nail on the head my friend. Nail on the head.

Think about this one. If a case or bumper doesnt help the problem then doesnt that mean that touching the antenna is not the issue? You're not touching it if a case is on it. I think its AT&T. They need to turn up the juice!! Think about it.

[mtcowdog]

Living in Montana, AT&T is not a service option here. I've wanted an iphone since the first one, but that hasn't been an option. So I watch these iphone media storms from the sideline.

Anyway, with a Motorolla Droid, I can't impact the service bars with any iteration of death grip I have tried. I have even purposely gone to locations where I was just barely getting a signal. My wife has a blackberry, and we find the same thing.

Last week I was in DC and visited the Bethesda Apple store. I tried several of the iphone 4s. If I held the phone wrapped in the palm of my hand, the signal bars dropped. I pulled out my droid and no change.

Until apple shows us quantitative numbers (dBm) about signal drop with the iPhone 4 versus other phones, they aren't going to win me over on this one. And until Apple opens up the iPhone to other carriers, I guess I will just keep getting more and more cozy with Android phones.

[leroypants]

The level of fanboyism for apple is just overwhelming and pathetic. Jobs admitted they released a flawed device and yet the apple zealots attack CR for pointing that fact out. If the device was perfect their would be no need for a bumper, plain and simple. However the apple zealot will never admit that, they will just cry about a Google conspiracy or some other idiotic theory.

I could only imagine if Jobs was in charge of Toyota, he would just tell people they needed to learn to drive differently.

So much for the apple slogan "it just works".

[MorphingDragon]

I think its AT&T. They need to turn up the juice!! Think about it.

I think AT&T would be running at the maximum Wattage American law allows.

There are a whole lot of things to consider than just power.

[hcuar]

The problem people are missing is the phone isn't flawed. All cell phones have the same issue with a weak spot regarding gripping the phone and loosing signal strength. It's a laws of physics thing regarding waves and obstructions. All phones have a limited amount of power to deal with obstructions and interference. If the network provider's signal is too weak in an area, you drop calls or data transfer drops to a halt. This was the theme of the press conference on Friday. The media is a bunch of sharks that want to ignore the facts and sell copy. If Consumer Reports bowed to Apple and retracted their opinion they would look like they didn't do their engineering homework.

The coverage I read after the press conference seemed to be a face saving matter for the reporting institutions. They decided to ignore the well presented facts and report a limited set of facts to the unknowing public. This is indicative of our society as a whole. People want a sound bite to develop an opinion.

Steve's presentation was bound to be a magnate to people claiming his arrogance or lack of codling. Steve's presentation attempted to present facts and engineering data to a crowd of dogs interested in nothing but sensationalism and their own ego. When it comes down to it... If you have issue with your phone, you probably are using it in a low signal area. If the case doesn't work... take it back. Get a phone on a service that works for your location/situation and be happy that a company is willing to take it back.

[Thirteenva]

All I know, is that we can produce the problem easily on the iPhone 4's with multiple grips, or even a two finger touch (it goes from 5-1 bar), but NONE of the 3G's or 3GS's at our office drop bars even if you wrap your hands completely around them.

[enzo thecat]

The problem people are missing is the phone isn't flawed. All cell phones have the same issue with a weak spot regarding gripping the phone and loosing signal strength. It's a laws of physics thing regarding waves and obstructions. All phones have a limited amount of power to deal with obstructions and interference. If the network provider's signal is too weak in an area, you drop calls or data transfer drops to a halt. This was the theme of the press conference on Friday. The media is a bunch of sharks that want to ignore the facts and sell copy. If Consumer Reports bowed to Apple and retracted their opinion they would look like they didn't do their engineering homework.

The coverage I read after the press conference seemed to be a face saving matter for the reporting institutions. They decided to ignore the well presented facts and report a limited set of facts to the unknowing public. This is indicative of our society as a whole. People want a sound bite to develop an opinion.

Steve's presentation was bound to be a magnate to people claiming his arrogance or lack of codling. Steve's presentation attempted to present facts and engineering data to a crowd of dogs interested in nothing but sensationalism and their own ego. When it comes down to it... If you have issue with your phone, you probably are using it in a low signal area. If the case doesn't work... take it back. Get a phone on a service that works for your location/situation and be happy that a company is willing to take it back.

Is that apple flavored Kool-aid you're drinking?

[MorphingDragon]

Is that apple flavored Kool-aid you're drinking?

I wonder, If I put an iPhone 4 into a lead box capable of blocking Gamma Radiation, people will still say its an iPhone 4 antenna problem.

[greenmeanie]

I agree They should replace it with a real fixed version at a later date.


My iphone 4 still has the problem.

I don't want a free bumper case especially if apple will fix the real problem when they release the next gen iphone. I and many others would really be pissed.

I'm going to take my phone to an apple store, ask for a new one, if it doesn't have the antenna issue (like mine does, very bad I might add) I will keep it, if the antenna issue is still there. I will return both iphones (one for fiance, still unopened) and move to another phone, probably a droid, or hold out for the iphone 5 or whatever is next, but I doubt I will come back to apple for phones.

I own a macbook pro and a mac pro and would never buy a pc, so I'm not some apple overnighter nor am I a fan boy. I go and get the best hardware for the money and if the iphone isn't that than I must move on.

Their conference yesterday did nothing for me, give me a phone that works and doesn't drop 20dbm when I hold it in my palm or hold it in a certain way.
If they can't do that then they lost my business as far as phones go.

[chatin]

Is that apple flavored Kool-aid you're drinking?

-Nope, drinking what Steve recommends after holdin a lot leather case.

http://afrocityblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/fool-aid.jpg

[law guy]

So I understand the N-1, Droid, Droid Incredible ALL have the death-grip issue. So why should people specifically avoid the IP4 except pure maniacal hatred towards :apple:?

Well, the iPhone 4 issue is not a death grip issue, it's a even lightly touch two parts of the external antenna band at the same time issue. Apple has gone to some pains to try conflate the two.

[leroypants]

So I understand the N-1, Droid, Droid Incredible ALL have the death-grip issue.

Actually they don't, that apple video is about as believable as your average ufo footage.

So why should people specifically avoid the IP4 except pure maniacal hatred towards :apple:?

Pure maniacal devotion to apple is what is the only possible explanation as to why people would be grateful about a defective device, A device that Jobs has admitted is defective.

[srxtr]

Well, the iPhone 4 issue is not a death grip issue, it's a even lightly touch two parts of the external antenna band at the same time issue. Apple has gone to some pains to try conflate the two.

For only 0.55% of the users though?

[PerfSeeker]

Actually they don't, that apple video is about as believable as your average ufo footage.



Pure maniacal devotion to apple is what is the only possible explanation as to why people would be grateful about a defective device, A device that Jobs has admitted is defective.

The haterade is strong with this one.
http://jenden.us/storage/JD/img/cool_story_bro2.jpg

[afrowq]

A lot of hating by fanboys, but I love CR. I've subscribed for years. They are completely objective and DEAD-ON with their reviews. If the don't recommend something, it's for good reason.

[.Andy]

Actually they don't, that apple video is about as believable as your average ufo footage.
I agree with this. It's amazing how quickly people will swallow such nonsense from apple. That antenna page is one of the most ridiculously cynical things I've seen. They pimp their quality of their $100 million testing facility only to not use it to compare phones in any of their vids. And they superficially compare on the basis of a grip (when CR and others have shown a single finger is sufficient with the ip4) and the number of bars on the display. Talk about non-scientific whitewash.

[quagmire]

A lot of hating by fanboys, but I love CR. I've subscribed for years. They are completely objective and DEAD-ON with their reviews. If the don't recommend something, it's for good reason.

Like when they recommend the 2007 Camry with no data on it and then get egg on their face when it had transmission issues?

Or just because it is Toyota, they give them the benefit of the doubt they would fix the 2005 Avalon issues?

[Treefu]

...

The iPhone is almost perfect.

The reason?

It's very close to being bar none.

:D :D :D

[thirteen1031]

Actually they don't, that apple video is about as believable as your average ufo footage.
Could say the same about footage showing iPhone4 losing calls and bars. Why is their footage unbelievable but footage of the iPhone4 losing bars is believable? :confused:

Or are you trying to say that those making iPhone4 footage couldn't have an agenda? Posts I've seen from Apple haters would imply the opposite.

[gehrbox]

Actually they don't, that apple video is about as believable as your average ufo footage.



Pure maniacal devotion to apple is what is the only possible explanation as to why people would be grateful about a defective device, A device that Jobs has admitted is defective.

Trust is a word you should add to your vocabulary.

Experience would teach you where to put trust.

My experience with Apple says they deserve trust.

[leroypants]

Could say the same about footage showing iPhone4 losing calls and bars. Why is their footage unbelievable but footage of the iPhone4 losing bars is believable? :confused:

Do those people making the videos have billions of dollars on the line like apple does?

Or are you trying to say that those making iPhone4 footage couldn't have an agenda? Posts I've seen from Apple haters would imply the opposite.

Of course they have an agenda, they want the iphone to work properly, their agenda is being able to hold a phone like a normal person and make a phone call.

[gehrbox]

Could say the same about footage showing iPhone4 losing calls and bars. Why is their footage unbelievable but footage of the iPhone4 losing bars is believable? :confused:

Or are you trying to say that those making iPhone4 footage couldn't have an agenda? Posts I've seen from Apple haters would imply the opposite.

Could be he also believes we didn't actually land on the moon.

[leroypants]

Trust is a word you should add to your vocabulary.

Experience would teach you where to put trust.

My experience with Apple says they deserve trust.

Blind faith is a word that is obviously in your vocabulary.

[gehrbox]

Do those people making the videos have billions of dollars on the line like apple does?



Of course they have an agenda, they want the iphone to work properly, their agenda is being able to hold a phone like a normal person and make a phone call.

If they work for the competition it's quite possible that they have billions on the line. Could be that there was a second video shooter behind the grassy knoll :)

[gehrbox]

Blind faith is a word that is obviously in your vocabulary.

I have blind faith in God, but I have 25 years of experience with Apple.

[Treefu]

I have blind faith in God, but I have 25 years of experience with Apple.

That perspective alone should have given yourself some thought.

[lilo777]

For only 0.55% of the users though?

This is who officially complained to Apple about it. Most of the rest of those who have the issue (that is 100% of iPhone 4 owners) still think that the problem is AT&T. :D

[wovel]

This is who officially complained to Apple about it. Most of the rest of those who have the issue (that is 100% of iPhone 4 owners) still think that the problem is AT&T. :D

Wow, did I miss the poll where 3 million people asked you to speak on their behalf?

[wovel]

Do those people making the videos have billions of dollars on the line like apple does?



Of course they have an agenda, they want the iphone to work properly, their agenda is being able to hold a phone like a normal person and make a phone call.

Can the people making those videos on youtube go to prison for making materially false statements like the officers of a publicly traded company in the US can? Who has more motivation to be honest?

[srxtr]

This is who officially complained to Apple about it. Most of the rest of those who have the issue (that is 100% of iPhone 4 owners) still think that the problem is AT&T. :D

But I own an iPhone 4, and I've no problem, so it can't possibly be 100%.

[-aggie-]

This is who officially complained to Apple about it. Most of the rest of those who have the issue (that is 100% of iPhone 4 owners) still think that the problem is AT&T. :D

AT&T has nothing to do with it or do you want to tell the other countries this too? Whether the number is higher than 0.55% or not, it’s not much higher than that, unless you are seeing large groups of people returning their phones and the media is just missing all this. FYI, 3GS return rate at the same time last year was 6%; it’s only 1.7% for the 4. Other than the media and certain forum members making lots of noise, the reality does not support the illusion.

For those that have the problem, I feel your pain, but you’ve heard from Apple. You either live with it or return it. In your shoes, I’d return it and get the 3GS or leave Apple altogether.

[wovel]

But I own an iPhone 4, and I've no problem, so it can't possibly be 100%.

Oh well then you should not have elected lilo to speak for you. Oh wait, maybe you didn't and he was just lying. Thought did not occur to me before, thanks for clearing it up for me.

[iWonderwhy]

Gotta love Consumer Retort.

[intelliot]

Good for Consumer Reports. The bumper is nothing but a band-aid. I don't/didn't need a bumper or a case for my 3GS, 3G, 2G. Why for the iPhone 4?

You don't need a case for the iPhone 4, either. As revealed at the event, Steve and the other 2 Apple execs don't use cases. Just don't hold it wrong. Even if you do hold it wrong, you'll be fine if AT&T's signal is strong enough where you are.

[macaudioz]

Hey Consumer Reports, Steve Jobs said they would take care of all customers.

A. They would give free cases or refund APPLE purchased cases a refund.

B. If the consumer was absolutely not satisfied then they could return phone for refund.

Sounds pretty solid to me.

What else do you want. Blood from Steve Jobs?
I was impressed with the response from Apple concerning this situation.

Did you not pay attention to the hard data they had. I too have felt this whole issue was way over blown by the media and Consumer Reports seems to have fallen for all of it as well.

I want Consumer Reports to show their reports on the phones that Steve Jobs brought up in his presentation and see what kind of rating they gave those phones? If they too have the same antenna issues then those reports should not show them recommending these phones as well based on those issues.

I think it was unfair of them to make a decision until they checked with Apple first to find out the facts. I hope they eat their words.

Macaudioz

P.S. Oh for those skeptics, I don't know how you hold your smartphone, but it is not at the very bottom of the phone. Maybe all of you have a problem knowing how to hold your phones. And for all those Apple haters, I suppose you believe that man never walked on the moon and Aliens built the pyramids. Get a life man!

[songcunzhi]

I didn't know how they were, until they made so much noise by disproving iphone 4.

[DMann]

Do those people making the videos have billions of dollars on the line like apple does?
Competitors' employees, associates and share holders, for a start.

Never mind their die-hard fans, supporters, Gizmodo, and Apple haters, in general.

Of course they have an agenda, they want the iphone to work properly, their agenda is being able to hold a phone like a normal person and make a phone call.

For over 99% of iPhone 4 users, this agenda apparently has been fulfilled.

[rcandre2]

Macaudioz

P.S. Oh for those skeptics, I don't know how you hold your smartphone, but it is not at the very bottom of the phone. Maybe all of you have a problem knowing how to hold your phones. And for all those Apple haters, I suppose you believe that man never walked on the moon and Aliens built the pyramids. Get a life man!

Come on man... everyone knows that man never walked on the moon and of course aliens built the pyramids! I thought this was common knowledge :rolleyes:

[igirlca]

to everyone saying they believe this footage of other phones having the identical issue...i have 3 nexus ones here, 2 desires, 1 incredible, 5 blackberry models, and 4 iphone models, and 1 palm pre.. i am gripping the **** out of them in every way i can, and while there is some degredation of db strength, it's nowhere near what it is on the iphone 4.

i'm not going to post video of it, frankly i don't care whether you believe it or not, the level at which people believe steve jobs is sickening regardless. and i love apple products.

i've recently switched to nexus one full time, but i still got an iphone4 because i'm part of a blog to report on them.

it's a great phone if you ignore all the typical apple nonsense, but the antenna issue is maybe the worst thing apple has ever done. and they've just made it worse in a gross attempt at trying to make it go away. their marketshare dropped 4 whole percentage points in q1 and android is selling like hotcakes, now is not the time to take cheap shots and pretend you don't have competition.

but thats really apples whole image isn't it, everything else is ****? that's gotten them this far and i guess ..why would they change that? they've been fooling people for years with 'we don't get viruses or spyware' and people still to this day believe that. it doesn't matter that every tech and programming publication consistently rates them the least secure operating system, people think you can't get a virus on a mac.

people were screaming for a recall here too, until steve said the problem doesn't exist, but if you're going to be such a baby we'll give you a free case. lol what? then to my dismay i see people going along with it... well there it is guys...steve said it doesn't really exist, lets move on.

i hate to break it to the die hards, but blind loyalty will not only not get YOU anywhere, not demanding your products be held to a standard will also degrade the quality of your precious apple future. if you don't demand they give you stuff that works now, the brand will only get worse.

quit being willfully ignorant consumers with this company. they treat you like you cant even figure out how to change an sms sound or install an app outside of the app store, and you treat them like they're gods. get real.

this return percentage he flashed is also ***** ridiculous, everybody was waiting to see what apples move was before returning, i'd LOOOOOVE to see what the return rate is 1-3 months from now. i bet it exceeds every other smartphone on the market.

[wizard]

I don't think Consumer Reports is hurting their rep but it is true about iPhones still selling. I setup the return of mine today and went to the Apple store where they could not help me because I bought it through the online apple store, incredibly stupid for the 2 systems to not be combined. Anyways people were coming in to buy the iPhone 4 which they didn't have any of. Then I had to go to the AT&T store to get a new sim for my old iPhone 3g so i would have a phone while the 4 is being shipped back. While waiting there for 30 minutes everyone that came in except for 2 people asked about buying the iPhone 4. Amazing. Either people live under rocks or people just don't care if they can make a phone call on a phone or not

it is more a case of people recognizing that iPhone is the best tool of it's type. Plus people being intelligent enough to use the tool properly.


Oh and while I was sitting in the AT&T store my signal on my iPhone 4 which was still active was dropping up and down. Got my iPhone 3G reactivated and I've been at full signal ever since.

Which means absolutely nothing because my 3G will show variability in the bars too. Just sitting on a table with no one touching it. The point is you don't know why the signal was or is varying at any one time. It could be a cell tower issue or intermitant interference. You need more information than you have to state that the problem rests with the iPhone 4.
No matter how I hold the 3G I cannot get the signal to drop whereas just touching the bars on the 4 would cause a quick drop.

In a nut shell the problem is you, don't touch the gap and you won't have a problem. Your stupidity here is no different than the guy that puts his thumb on a nails head, smashes it and then blames the hammer. Sorry to say that but I'm just really tired of this sort of posting nonsense and really think people need to be held accountable.

Do you blame your IR remote if you are trying to use it from another room? There is an expectation that the user will do his part here.

Further you can't deny the reality that all RF system antennas interact with the environment. Anyone that has ever used a portable FM radio should understand this. But it isn't just an issue for FM radios because the physics is the same for all RF devices. That EM field interacts in one way or another with everything around the antenna.

I don't care what Apple said today, this is a design flaw and I won't be buying an iPhone 5 until many months after the release.

Funny but it is normal operating procedure here to wait a bit after a new product comes out. That to let the lemmings do the field testing. Even then I still got caught up in some of the issues the 3G had early in it's life time. Interestingly these issues where far worst than anything happening with iPhone 4 right now. However there was not any of this negative hysteria that we have today. I attribute that directly to types of customers buying the iPhone today.

I still think they are great phones and an awesome OS, this one was flawed pretty badly and for them to basically say "well everyone else is bad too so its not our fault" is a horrible way to treat your customers.

It is pretty ignorant for you as a customer to expect Apple to come up with new physical laws to govern the iPhone. More so it is pretty pathetic that you find a way to fail communications on an iPhone (bridge the bar) and then slag Apple because you can get the device to fail in a specific way. Why don't you just short the iPod connector and then claim Apple was shortsighted because you want to be able to short the connector? In a nut shell that appears to be your point that the iPhone should work no matter what you do with it. I can not accept that at all, because there is no way for Apple or any other manufacture to make a device that can effectively withstand every users abusive use.

I would look at an android based phone but none of the cool ones come for AT&T.

Would it not have been far simpler to deal with you improper usage of the iPhone instead of running around with this silly mission? Think about it, avoiding bridging the bar is pretty cheap even if you have to buy a case. It really appears that you are caught up in the mass hysteria caused by the web sites. You want to believe the iPhone 4 is defective because everybody says that when you do xyz the signal drops. However it doesn't occur to you to not do xyz but instead become an active user of the iPhone.

As a side note there is a bit of nautical wisdom that says never leave a big boat for a smaller one in an emergency unless you really have to. There where reports a year or two ago of a family that did just that because they thought their sail boat was sinking. A couple of them died awaiting rescue. Worst the sail boat never sank. Panic is a very dangerous thing that can easily be amplified by those around you. It is something to keep in mind when faced with trying situations in life. Breath deep and think.


Dave
Dave

[igirlca]

it is more a case of people recognizing that iPhone is the best tool of it's type. Plus people being intelligent enough to use the tool properly.


well sir, apple certainly doesn't think you're intelligent enough to use the tool properly, otherwise you'd have flash and be installing non appstore apps on it.


In a nut shell the problem is you, don't touch the gap and you won't have a problem. Your stupidity here is no different than the guy that puts his thumb on a nails head, smashes it and then blames the hammer. Sorry to say that but I'm just really tired of this sort of posting nonsense and really think people need to be held accountable.


actually i thought this thread was rather delightful and intelligent until reading your unprecedented loyalty to admittedly failed hardware. he's not stupid for touching the phone and losing signal, this issue was acknowledged by apple themselves, might want to check your facts, or check your attitude.

you dave, are unintelligent, bitter, uninformed, and cynical. keep dancing while steve pulls the strings clown.

[macsmurf]

Further you can't deny the reality that all RF system antennas interact with the environment.

Nobody is denying this.


It is pretty ignorant for you as a customer to expect Apple to come up with new physical laws to govern the iPhone.


Then maybe you can explain how the bumper apparently defy the laws of physics? ;)

There is a test by anandtech that has been widely circulated on the forum: http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/3821?cPage=4&all=False&sort=0&page=3&slug=iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix

This clearly shows that there are two issues:

One is the issue of your hand blocking the signal. All phones have this and that is what Jobs referred to when he talked about the laws of physics.

The other one happens when you touch the antenna directly, bridging the two antennas. This one is what everyone is talking about. Lets be nice and call it a design tradeoff as it can be worked around by not holding the phone in such a way that you do that or by using a bumper. Whether those workarounds appeal to you is a matter of choice. I'm a lefty which makes it difficult to not hold the phone that way.

However, by pretending there is only one issue, Apple is being disingenuous and logically inconsistent. I think that is what people are pointing out and a lot of people are pointedly ignoring.

[Fluffy Bunny]

From PC World:
"iPhone 4: Why We’ve Reconsidered Its Rating (http://www.pcworld.com/article/201320/iphone_4_why_weve_reconsidered_its_rating.html?&tk=hp_fv)
Ginny Mies and Melissa J. Perenson, PC World
Jul 16, 2010 7:17 pm

If you were following this morning's Apple press conference, you may have seen PCWorld's name listed as one of the publications that lauded the iPhone 4 as the number one smartphone available. Unfortunately, after today's news and the number of issues that drove Apple to call this press conference in the first place, PCWorld has decided to take the iPhone 4 off our Top 10 Cell Phones chart and reassign it a "pending" rating."

[Max(IT)]

From PC World:
"iPhone 4: Why We’ve Reconsidered Its Rating (http://www.pcworld.com/article/201320/iphone_4_why_weve_reconsidered_its_rating.html?&tk=hp_fv)
Ginny Mies and Melissa J. Perenson, PC World
Jul 16, 2010 7:17 pm

If you were following this morning's Apple press conference, you may have seen PCWorld's name listed as one of the publications that lauded the iPhone 4 as the number one smartphone available. Unfortunately, after today's news and the number of issues that drove Apple to call this press conference in the first place, PCWorld has decided to take the iPhone 4 off our Top 10 Cell Phones chart and reassign it a "pending" rating."

Are they also going to give a "pending" rating to the Blackberry 9700, the HTC Droid Eris, and the Samsung Omnia II, and any other smartphone with the same exact problem? And will they ask them to send out a free case? Apple did.

[fifthworld]

Hey Consumer Reports, Steve Jobs said they would take care of all customers.

A. They would give free cases or refund APPLE purchased cases a refund.

B. If the consumer was absolutely not satisfied then they could return phone for refund.

Sounds pretty solid to me.

What else do you want. Blood from Steve Jobs?
I was impressed with the response from Apple concerning this situation.

What strange think to say. It's not that CR is rating Apple, they are rating the iPh4.

[viewfly]

Played with my IP4 this weekend. Very impressed. Verified the left hand side sweet spot - yes it attenuates RF (I measure in dBm) and Data speeds severely.

But I can deal with it...without a case.

Interestingly, the other 'sweet spot'...top of phone black band where the two antennas also meet has NO effect. Nor does touching the metal anywhere else. Also I can touch just below or above the left bottom sweet spot...no effect on data speeds. So I think the reason has to do with the way this Penta-Band antenna is fed RF...and how difficult/complicated that is to do without consequences. But having a metal external antenna is, in general, not bad...one can touch it anywhere else with no effect.

Actually the left bottom sweet spot ( 1mm x 6mm wide) is only 0.01% of the total area of the metal band...pretty easy to avoid...much easier to avoid than one of my old stubby antennas.

Placed my Bold 9700 3G in dBm mode (ALT + MNLL) and held it at its sweet spot...verified that it drops like IP4...around 20 dB.

Here are Apple's tests (note the footnote...must begin in a weak celluar area of around -90 dBm to see the 'bar' effect, i.e. 5 bars on the old bar scale). http://www.apple.com/antenna/

Nokia is being quiet now because they know that for decades they have printed manuals to avoid certain spots on all Nokia phones.

Summary: this phone has so many good features that I can deal with the RF issue like any intelligent geek can....just don't place my finger in the wrong spot...sort of like not placing your finger over the camera lens. Whereas other phones don't do what I need from a smartphone...so going with them has more problems for me. (just my opinion and situation)

BUT, I agree....Apple makes devices 'for the rest of us'...meaning non-geeks. So it should have been more consumer friendly. AND, at least Apple should have placed a warning in the manual. But the antenna reception is improved over the 3GS...if you avoid the sweet spot.

I also got a bumper...because I use cases sometimes. It works and gives no problem. But I'm mostly going 'naked' with a Sena Ultra Slim case. I tried insulating 'Kapton' tape (a DuPont product used in transformers, PCs, and radios) over the lower gap. It was not thick enough to solve the problem, but helped a little. So I kind of doubt duct tape will solve it either.

[Max(IT)]

to everyone saying they believe this footage of other phones having the identical issue...i have 3 nexus ones here, 2 desires, 1 incredible, 5 blackberry models, and 4 iphone models, and 1 palm pre.. i am gripping the **** out of them in every way i can, and while there is some degredation of db strength, it's nowhere near what it is on the iphone 4.

i'm not going to post video of it, frankly i don't care whether you believe it or not, the level at which people believe steve jobs is sickening regardless. and i love apple products.

i've recently switched to nexus one full time, but i still got an iphone4 because i'm part of a blog to report on them.

it's a great phone if you ignore all the typical apple nonsense, but the antenna issue is maybe the worst thing apple has ever done. and they've just made it worse in a gross attempt at trying to make it go away. their marketshare dropped 4 whole percentage points in q1 and android is selling like hotcakes, now is not the time to take cheap shots and pretend you don't have competition.

but thats really apples whole image isn't it, everything else is ****? that's gotten them this far and i guess ..why would they change that? they've been fooling people for years with 'we don't get viruses or spyware' and people still to this day believe that. it doesn't matter that every tech and programming publication consistently rates them the least secure operating system, people think you can't get a virus on a mac.

people were screaming for a recall here too, until steve said the problem doesn't exist, but if you're going to be such a baby we'll give you a free case. lol what? then to my dismay i see people going along with it... well there it is guys...steve said it doesn't really exist, lets move on.

i hate to break it to the die hards, but blind loyalty will not only not get YOU anywhere, not demanding your products be held to a standard will also degrade the quality of your precious apple future. if you don't demand they give you stuff that works now, the brand will only get worse.

quit being willfully ignorant consumers with this company. they treat you like you cant even figure out how to change an sms sound or install an app outside of the app store, and you treat them like they're gods. get real.

this return percentage he flashed is also ***** ridiculous, everybody was waiting to see what apples move was before returning, i'd LOOOOOVE to see what the return rate is 1-3 months from now. i bet it exceeds every other smartphone on the market.
Except your beloved Nexus One is one of the worst smartphones when you speak about basics like reception and battery life ...
But yeah, we trust you :D

What a joke most of the posters in this thread are.

Consumer Reports doesn't hate the iPhone 4. In fact, they think it's the best phone on the market. But once they thoroughly tested the antenna problem they found it to have a serious enough hardware flaw to not recommend it until Apple fixed the problem.

They and Anandtech both did testing that found all phones suffer from some level of attenuation, nobody doubts this, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that the iPhone 4's external antenna design causes their attenuation problems to be more severe than the norm. Bare contact with the antenna is bad (making it worse than other phones) but combine it with the fact that you don't need a death grip (like other phones) but only 1 finger to create the problem, and you have a major flaw that Apple should address.

What Apple did yesterday was nothing short of straight propaganda.

They said: All phones suffer attenuation.
The truth: the iPhone 4 suffers more from attenuation.

They ignored the core issue completely and are now spewing PR propaganda and guess what? The other companies are now fighting back with statements. Apple F'd up on this and I expect RIM, HTC and others to now do thorough testing that will expose raw data showing the truth.

I'm not going to act like the iPhone 4 is completely unusable but I have no doubt that Apple crossed an acceptable threshold when they chose this antenna design. Watch the next iPhone not even have an external antenna.

The joke is the army of newbies like you who joined the forum in June-July 2010 ....
And last time I checked the only "fight back" by Nokia, Htc and Rim was a completely BS statement about their phones, backed up by NOTHING more than words. At least Apple showed us videos ...

[pirateRACE]

I think Consumer Reports is flawed. They don't recommend a phone that they rated the highest in it's category.

I don't see how they can be a trusted source of independent reviews with such conflicting reports.

[MotiB]

Jobs promised here a free silicon case for each iPhone owner.
Listen Steve: You buy an apple iPhone because of its design. Because it feels great in your hand. If you wanted to hold a plastic feeling phone, you could have bought a plain old Nokia instead, at a fraction of the price.

Moti

[rcandre2]

Pulled this off of engadget.com... love it... t-shirts anyone? :D
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/197/4/7/User_surprise_by_pounding_senses.jpg

[afrowq]

Like when they recommend the 2007 Camry with no data on it and then get egg on their face when it had transmission issues?

Or just because it is Toyota, they give them the benefit of the doubt they would fix the 2005 Avalon issues?

Can you provide a link or a reference for what you're talking about here? I can't find anything about it online.

[quagmire]

Can you provide a link or a reference for what you're talking about here? I can't find anything about it online.

Couldn't find a working link for the 2005 Avalon story, but here is the blind recommendation for Toyota.

The V6 version of the company's top-selling Camry, and the four-wheel-drive V8 version of the Tundra pickup, both redesigned for 2007, now rate below average in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability rating. (This rating does not apply to previous model years.) In addition, the all-wheel-drive version of the Lexus GS sedan also received a below average rating. Because Consumer Reports does not recommend models with below-average reliability, these models no longer make CR's "Recommended" list.

Previously, new and redesigned Toyota models were recommended because of the automaker's excellent track record, even if CR didn't have sufficient reliability data on the new model.

Still, because of these findings, CR will no longer recommend any new or redesigned Toyota-built models without reliability data on a specific design.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/car-reliability.html

They recommended those vehicles without any data. So when they had issues, they had egg on their face.

[GoodWatch]

Except your beloved Nexus One is one of the worst smartphones when you speak about basics like reception and battery life ...
But yeah, we trust you :D



The joke is the army of newbies like you who joined the forum in June-July 2010 ....
And last time I checked the only "fight back" by Nokia, Htc and Rim was a completely BS statement about their phones, backed up by NOTHING more than words. At least Apple showed us videos ...

Or the joke is on the likes of you, who believe (with the emphasis on believe) everything iGod says. Ahh yes, those videos. Very convincing evidence :rolleyes:

[JD914]

From BGR:

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/17/consumer-reports-still-gives-apples-iphone-4-the-big-thumbs-down/

In response to Apple’s antenna-oriented press event, Consumer Reports responded by refusing to give the Apple iPhone 4 its golden seal of approval. The consumer product ratings company commended Apple for taking a first step in solving the antenna problem but denounced Apple’s case giveaway as a limited and temporary fix. Consumer Reports states:

Consumer Reports believes Apple’s offer of free cases is a good first step. However, Apple has indicated that this is not a long-term solution, it has guaranteed the offer only through September 30th, and has not extended it unequivocally to customers who bought cases from third-party vendors. We look forward to a long-term fix from Apple. As things currently stand, the iPhone 4 is still not one of our Recommended models.

Consumer Reports joins a growing list of companies, including Nokia and RIM, that are responding in a less than favorable way to Apple’s proposed solution.

[D1G1T4L]

Consumer Reports can give it any rating they want. In the end I'll decide if I am happy with the product or not.

[JD914]

Consumer Reports can give it any rating they want. In the end I'll decide if I am happy with the product or not.

You're correct, It's your perrogative to be happy with a defective device.

[sammich]

It isn't a thumbs down. It's a thumb sideways. It's just not recommending it, it's not trashing it.

[191185]

Consumer reports is correct . . . . I cannot recomend this phone either. .. .

would you buy a keyboard that you couldn't use the "H" key ? but instead had to push a new button that you get in the mail, that plugs into your usb, and is a stand alone button ?


IF APPLE SOLD TIRES, THEY WOULD NEED "FIX-A-FLAT" from day one... but that would be okay with everyone who has a iphone 4 and says " just don't put your finger in that spot and you won't have any problems with the phone"

why not just go buy some egg shells and walk on them ...

[Steviejobz]

Consumer Reports had just fallen back to being used for toaster and refrigerator reviews only. Most electronic buyers under 40 have a whole host of gadget blogs to get reviews and commentary.

They can no longer be trusted. They were for it, before they realized being against it would be good for PR. But it backfired. I will be looking elsewhere for a review on my next kitchen appliance.

[Steviejobz]

You're correct, It's your perrogative to be happy with a defective device.

But mine exhibits no defect. If you live in an area where signal is weak, then you shouldnt buy an iphone, or return it if you already did. I hear the Evo or Droid X, which weigh more than my laptop, work marginally better. Go for it.

Kind of why you dont see too many solar panels in rainy cities. Doesnt mean they are defective.

[JD914]

Consumer Reports had just fallen back to being used for toaster and refrigerator reviews only. Most electronic buyers under 40 have a whole host of gadget blogs to get reviews and commentary.

They can no longer be trusted. They were for it, before they realized being against it would be good for PR. But it backfired. I will be looking elsewhere for a review on my next kitchen appliance.

If they gave iPhone 4 raving reviews you would not bash CR BUT since they are critical of something YOU own and thought you made a good purchace you are all up in arms.

BTW once Consumer Reports put thier two cents into Iphone, 4 Apple hurried to do major damage control (holding a press conference). This just goes to show you that unlike YOU, the electronics industry heeds what a credible and unbiased publication like CR has to say about thier products.

[RalfTheDog]

Or the joke is on the likes of you, who believe (with the emphasis on believe) everything iGod says. Ahh yes, those videos. Very convincing evidence :rolleyes:

I think it funny when those of us who have iP4s get fantastic reception, even in places where the signal strength is very week. The fact is, I have an iP4. I get better reception than others who do not. Can I make the signal strength drop? yes. Is it the best cell phone I have ever had, with the best signal strength? Yes. I can get solid three bars where my 3GS has a hard time finding a tower.

From the perspective of a person who has the phone, this is a non issue.

[Megalobyte]

Consumer reports is correct . . . . I cannot recomend this phone either. .. .

would you buy a keyboard that you couldn't use the "H" key ? but instead had to push a new button that you get in the mail, that plugs into your usb, and is a stand alone button ?


IF APPLE SOLD TIRES, THEY WOULD NEED "FIX-A-FLAT" from day one... but that would be okay with everyone who has a iphone 4 and says " just don't put your finger in that spot and you won't have any problems with the phone"

why not just go buy some egg shells and walk on them ...

Everyone will of course decide for themselves, all I can say is, I would have put it in a case regardless, as I think most do, and my ip4 gets noticably better reception than my 3GS did. In fact, even without a case as well. I have had decent data speeds in spots that my 3GS couldn't operate in, so, the defect simply doesn't exist for me and thus, I do not in any way feel like I have a flawed phone, though I don't discount that others do have real issues. But if I have a perfect phone, why am I in denial about anything? I get superior reception with or without a case, plus a phone that is orders of magnitude better than the 3GS, so if I'm in denial, well, then that's where I want to be.

[RalfTheDog]

But mine exhibits no defect. If you live in an area where signal is weak, then you shouldnt buy an iphone, or return it if you already did. I hear the Evo or Droid X, which weigh more than my laptop, work marginally better. Go for it.

Kind of why you dont see too many solar panels in rainy cities. Doesnt mean they are defective.

I live in a place where the signal is week, and I have no problem. I think you should change your comment to, "If you are afraid of largely imaginary problems that effect almost no one, you shouldn't buy an iPhone.

I see no issue with the iP4.

[Steviejobz]

If they gave iPhone 4 raving reviews you would not bash CR BUT since they are critical of something YOU own and thought you made a good purchace you are all up in arms.

BTW once Consumer Reports put thier two cents into Iphone, 4 Apple hurried to do major damage control (holding a press conference). This just goes to show you that unlike YOU, the electronics industry heeds what a credible and unbiased publication like CR has to say about thier products.

Not really. I frankly ignored their initial positive review of the phone. I have never used CR for an electronics purchase. Way too many, more important reviewers out there.

Also, I used to think older people read CR and may be influenced by their iPhone review. Wrong. Most people in heir 40s and 50s get their electronic advice from their kids. Who, dont read CR either. They read these various blogs, use the device and then tell their parents what they think and what they should buy.

[RalfTheDog]

to everyone saying they believe this footage of other phones having the identical issue...i have 3 nexus ones here, 2 desires, 1 incredible, 5 blackberry models, and 4 iphone models, and 1 palm pre.. i am gripping the **** out of them in every way i can, and while there is some degredation of db strength, it's nowhere near what it is on the iphone 4.

i'm not going to post video of it, frankly i don't care whether you believe it or not, the level at which people believe steve jobs is sickening regardless. and i love apple products.

i've recently switched to nexus one full time, but i still got an iphone4 because i'm part of a blog to report on them.

it's a great phone if you ignore all the typical apple nonsense, but the antenna issue is maybe the worst thing apple has ever done. and they've just made it worse in a gross attempt at trying to make it go away. their marketshare dropped 4 whole percentage points in q1 and android is selling like hotcakes, now is not the time to take cheap shots and pretend you don't have competition.

but thats really apples whole image isn't it, everything else is ****? that's gotten them this far and i guess ..why would they change that? they've been fooling people for years with 'we don't get viruses or spyware' and people still to this day believe that. it doesn't matter that every tech and programming publication consistently rates them the least secure operating system, people think you can't get a virus on a mac.

people were screaming for a recall here too, until steve said the problem doesn't exist, but if you're going to be such a baby we'll give you a free case. lol what? then to my dismay i see people going along with it... well there it is guys...steve said it doesn't really exist, lets move on.

i hate to break it to the die hards, but blind loyalty will not only not get YOU anywhere, not demanding your products be held to a standard will also degrade the quality of your precious apple future. if you don't demand they give you stuff that works now, the brand will only get worse.

quit being willfully ignorant consumers with this company. they treat you like you cant even figure out how to change an sms sound or install an app outside of the app store, and you treat them like they're gods. get real.

this return percentage he flashed is also ***** ridiculous, everybody was waiting to see what apples move was before returning, i'd LOOOOOVE to see what the return rate is 1-3 months from now. i bet it exceeds every other smartphone on the market.

So, are all of us who have no problem and get better reception than our old iPhone imagining that we have no problem, or are all the people who don't have an iP4 imagining that we do?

[franswa za]

I live in a place where the signal is week, and I have no problem. I think you should change your comment to, "If you are afraid of largely imaginary problems that effect almost no one, you shouldn't buy an iPhone.

I see no issue with the iP4.

dog, my goodness................ is it to much to ask for some proper grammar from..........?

english is NOT my first language!

and SBTW............ for the rest........... ASS = DONKEY!

arse is /should be arse! EISH!

:(

vuvuzela? :)

[Hooksta]

Man CR has gone on and on bragging about iMacs and MacBook Pros for years. They always rate Apple's customer service as first class. They have recommended the previous iPhones in the past. Now that they simply cannot recommend the iP4 and people are saying CR are mistaken and suck. Interesting...

[charlituna]

Someone needs to set up a poll on this site. Yes and No answer nothing else. Yes I am having signal issues, No, my phone is working fine. Not scientific but it might shed more light onto this.

If they did then it needs to be very clear. Because 'bar read out' issues is NOT the same as reception. But both are often referred to as 'signal'

[Eddyisgreat]

So, are all of us who have no problem and get better reception than our old iPhone imagining that we have no problem, or are all the people who don't have an iP4 imagining that we do?

Exactly.

[Office Hours]

Except your beloved Nexus One is one of the worst smartphones when you speak about basics like reception and battery life ...
But yeah, we trust you :D



The joke is the army of newbies like you who joined the forum in June-July 2010 ....
And last time I checked the only "fight back" by Nokia, Htc and Rim was a completely BS statement about their phones, backed up by NOTHING more than words. At least Apple showed us videos ...I may be new here but I'm definitely not new to Apple or their products. In fact, I was probably a Apple user while you were still sucking on a pacifier in a crib.

Petty insults aside, what they did on Friday was insulting. CR and other sources claimed that the iPhone 4 suffered severe attenuation, and what do they do? Ignore the core issue. They never answered whether the iPhone 4 has more attenuation problems. Never. That's what the announcement was for, to address what CR and others were saying. Instead they just announced that all phones suffer from attenuation.

Just to paint a clearer picture, that's like a car manufacturer selling a car that is so unsafe that it can kill it's passengers in a 20 MPH collision and then making an announcement that all cars can kill it's passengers during a collision. Well, no duh, but that isn't the issue; and what Apple did on Friday was no different from that.

The car analogy I gave is obviously much more severe than the attenuation problem of iPhone 4. In fact, I'm one of those people that think this problem was blown way out of proportion, but I still also believe that the external antenna design should have never been put into production.

So far you've seen quick responses from those mentioned, give it some time and you'll see more out of them. I guarantee this problem will not go away and Friday just made it worse.

[quagmire]

If they gave iPhone 4 raving reviews you would not bash CR BUT since they are critical of something YOU own and thought you made a good purchace you are all up in arms.

BTW once Consumer Reports put thier two cents into Iphone, 4 Apple hurried to do major damage control (holding a press conference). This just goes to show you that unlike YOU, the electronics industry heeds what a credible and unbiased publication like CR has to say about thier products.

Unbiased? Ha! They handed out recommendations on Toyota products without any data( see previous page). You call that unbiased? If they were objective, they would not recommend Toyota models based on history.

If CR wanted to be unbiased in this situation and objective, they would hold off reevaluating the iPhone 4 recommendation decision until they verified Apple's claim( which a lot of youtube videos support) that it affects a lot of other smartphones when not in the best signal strength area.

But, they didn't do any of that. They can't call themselves unbiased and objective without going back to test other smartphones after Apple's presentation.

[RalfTheDog]

dog, my goodness................ is it to much to ask for some proper grammar from..........?

english is NOT my first language!

and SBTW............ for the rest........... ASS = DONKEY!

arse is /should be arse! EISH!

:(

vuvuzela? :)

Dude, could you please translate your comment? I am not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying my grammar is bad, or are you upset that I commented on your grammar. If the second, I do not think I have responded to any of your posts.

[charlituna]

THIS IS A NON-ISSUE to 99% of iPhone 4 owners.

Exactly. And it would seem that it's only an issue for ATT owners as there are no multiple complaints from outside the US. Perhaps a handful in large metro areas in Europe (I imagine London might have a couple of trouble areas) but that's all.

And this just supports that this is more a carrier issue than some fictitious "major design flaw"

It really is a shame. $100 million and the phone's antenna doesn't work.

$100 million and with a great antenna, ATT is still screwing up and folks are still blaming it on Apple.


Apple has said there is no issue. So anyone who didn't call Applecare when they claim their phone does not work is dumb.

That makes no sense at all. I think you were trying to say that those that called Applecare to say their phones aren't working are stupid? yes.

Well your comment is actually the stupid one. Apple didn't say that some phones could be defective. Sure they can't. It's just part of making electronics. It happens. And yes folks should call Applecare or go to a store.

What they said was that their data just doesn't support the notion that this is an ISSUE (ie a major design F-up). Because if it was, the numbers would be much higher.

Yeah, why not trust the testing of the manufacturer of a flawed product over the testing of an independent source.


Because no one has called into question their testing methods. It passed the FCC etc. And unlike Consumer Reports who was called out less than 6 hours after their big study was published for having faulty testing methods (leaving the issue of the sampling aside), no one has jumped up to say the same for Apple. And given all the hype if there was reason, they would


With that 100 million lab, how did they miss this flaw during all that high-tech testing ?


Because there is no flaw. What is happening is part of the unfortunate side effects of the rules on cell phone tech. All phones have things that decade the signal, be it fingers, building walls, etc. All phones lose reception etc.

Even Consumer Reports said 'areas of weak reception' and nothing about those in good or great reception. Implying that whatever is happening is a total non issue for the latter folks

And so is Apple. This "bad press" over a fairly insignificant problem will probably cause more total iPhones to be sold over the long run.

Not the bad press, but rather the response. Because the presence of the 'bad press' will lead to many sources posting the news story that Apple responded to them etc. If your trusted news source gives a thumbs up to that reply, then for many that's all it takes to be convinced that the bad press was just sour grapes

The 1.7% number is tainted. Jobs said that the data came 3 days ago. That's only about 2.5 weeks into the return window iPhone 4 for the earliest of recipients.
Many people were also waiting until the press conference to make a decision and people will usually return something at the end of a window (i.e. close to 30 days), not at the beginning.



maybe with other things, but for many especially in the US, your cell phone is THE phone in your life. So if it is not working, you will have it serviced, return it etc right away.

I guarantee that tonight the number is already higher than 1.7 and that it will rise above that mark over the lifespan of the iPhone 4.

There will possibly be a spike over the next couple of weeks. Due to those in crappy ATT areas getting the message that crappy ATT is not going to be all that less crappy just cause they got a hip cool phone. So if Verizon is the great carrier in that area, that's who they should be using and yeah it sucks that they can't have the cool phone etc.

But there's no reason to believe that the spike will be that huge given that the issue isn't a design flaw at all and thus effects a small group. Or lasting since those in crap zones won't buy the phone after all (and many of those that don't know will be more careful to find out before switching phones and/or carriers)

You miss my point.

If the number was way more than .55%, we'd never know the number.

We might. It all depends on whether that number still falls within Apple and the Government's acceptable range of defect.

These types of devices are complex and even the most perfect design will have problems with manufacturing issues. A screw isn't set perfectly tight, a sim card is punched slightly too small, Fed Ex drops the box and a tiny wire way inside snaps. and so on.

So long as the amount is small enough to be negligible, no serious injury or death occurs and the company makes good on repairing and or replacing, it's just part of the game.

Why Apple doesn't just fix the damned iPhone 4. It drops calls, period, any way you look at it, iPhone 4 drops a lot of calls!

Sure Apple is not perfect, neither is iPhone 4.


Because Apple isn't responsible for fixing ATTs network.

there's nothing to fix in the phone itself. If there was we would see a lot more reports, especially coming from areas with the best ATT coverage. And Consumer Reports wouldn't have added that weak reception comment etc.

The iphone 4, while of course not perfect, is not flawed. The design is solid. It's the other side that has the problems.


http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/17/rim-co-ceos-pull-no-punches-responding-to-apples-antenna-statem/

Yeah and? Are you shocked that the compet didn't like having it called out that they aren't perfect either.


You can have signal attenuation and still keep the call going. Just because the signal strength decreases doesn't mean you lose the connection.



Exactly, the two are not the same thing.

To go back to my friends room analogy. You and I can start off shouting and depending on the noise in the room we can drop to a normal voice and be fine. Or we can start off standing next to each other and move apart and be fine. Or not. If more people are coming in the room.


I don't exactly trust AT&T to report dropped calls accurately, merely because I don't know how they record them as a drop.


I don't trust them to give out the numbers because of the fear that some folks will take any number that they deem high as 'you are crap' and either leave or not sign up. For example, 100k drops a month sounds huge to the uninformed, even if it might be out of a 1000 times that in attempts. ATT won't risk it.

that means that the numbers have been screwed with and we don't want you to know how.


It doesn't always mean they screwed with the numbers (perhaps the interpretation). They just don't want to give them out and that is the standard shut you down code phrase. Because as you said your own company knows that phrase etc.


This issue occurs, and if some day you're affected by it you would be pretty pissed too.

Well sure. But the wise and considerate man looks at all the factors rather than knee jerking on one party. Because Apple made the phone, they carry the weight of a lot of the issues when it's not always on them. To their credit they make good on many of those issues because it's just not worth the time and energy.
The bumpers are a good example. The perception is out there, thanks to the media, that this bars issue is a major deal and that a case is the answer. Rather than waste time trying to convince the masses, Apple is just giving folks free bumpers. Why not, it's not really going to cost them that much since the silly things are like 10 cents to make and maybe another 5 cents to package. Come Sept 30th they will likely just have the bumpers in the box. You get a black one for free and if you want a color you have to buy it on your own.

Excuse me! I'm 53 years old and way to smart to read Consumer Reports. I subscribed to their magazine for several years, and I'm sorry to say, I just can't recommend it at this point.

I"m way younger than 53 but I do read Consumer Reports. However I read it with my brain on. I don't just blindly follow anyone. No matter the 'rep'. Which is also why I'm not holding my breath on my next Mac coming with a Blu-ray drive.

the issue is not the death grip but in fact that if you put your finger on one spot, you loose all signal in a lower signal area.

Exactly. If you are in a crappy service area anything is going to make it worse. If you are in a good or great area, it rarely to never matters what you do.

Apple did screw up, and is now willing to refund you money completely if their screw up affects your user experience to the point that the rest of what the phone is not enough.

They are not NOW willing to refund your money. They have given a full refund on the phones since the first 3g came out. With an extended return period of a couple of days over double the standard 2 weeks, to be in line with ATT's no ETF period. And no restocking fee since they open the phone before they let you take it out of the store.

with the first iphone, there was a restocking fee although I remember reports of folks saying the managers waived it if you were returning it cause ATT sucked in your area.

[-aggie-]

Dude, could you please translate your comment? I am not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying my grammar is bad, or are you upset that I commented on your grammar. If the second, I do not think I have responded to any of your posts.

He’s making a comment about this:

I live in a place where the signal is weak, and I have no problem. I think you should change your comment to, "If you are afraid of largely imaginary problems that affect almost no one, you shouldn't buy an iPhone.

Just ignore him.


Exactly. And it would seem that it's only an issue for ATT owners as there are no multiple complaints from outside the US. Perhaps a handful in large metro areas in Europe (I imagine London might have a couple of trouble areas) but that's all.

And this just supports that this is more a carrier issue than some fictitious "major design flaw"



$100 million and with a great antenna, ATT is still screwing up and folks are still blaming it on Apple.




That makes no sense at all. I think you were trying to say that those that called Applecare to say their phones aren't working are stupid? yes.

Well your comment is actually the stupid one. Apple didn't say that some phones could be defective. Sure they can't. It's just part of making electronics. It happens. And yes folks should call Applecare or go to a store.

What they said was that their data just doesn't support the notion that this is an ISSUE (ie a major design F-up). Because if it was, the numbers would be much higher.



Because no one has called into question their testing methods. It passed the FCC etc. And unlike Consumer Reports who was called out less than 6 hours after their big study was published for having faulty testing methods (leaving the issue of the sampling aside), no one has jumped up to say the same for Apple. And given all the hype if there was reason, they would



Because there is no flaw. What is happening is part of the unfortunate side effects of the rules on cell phone tech. All phones have things that decade the signal, be it fingers, building walls, etc. All phones lose reception etc.

Even Consumer Reports said 'areas of weak reception' and nothing about those in good or great reception. Implying that whatever is happening is a total non issue for the latter folks



Not the bad press, but rather the response. Because the presence of the 'bad press' will lead to many sources posting the news story that Apple responded to them etc. If your trusted news source gives a thumbs up to that reply, then for many that's all it takes to be convinced that the bad press was just sour grapes



maybe with other things, but for many especially in the US, your cell phone is THE phone in your life. So if it is not working, you will have it serviced, return it etc right away.



There will possibly be a spike over the next couple of weeks. Due to those in crappy ATT areas getting the message that crappy ATT is not going to be all that less crappy just cause they got a hip cool phone. So if Verizon is the great carrier in that area, that's who they should be using and yeah it sucks that they can't have the cool phone etc.

But there's no reason to believe that the spike will be that huge given that the issue isn't a design flaw at all and thus effects a small group. Or lasting since those in crap zones won't buy the phone after all (and many of those that don't know will be more careful to find out before switching phones and/or carriers)



We might. It all depends on whether that number still falls within Apple and the Government's acceptable range of defect.

These types of devices are complex and even the most perfect design will have problems with manufacturing issues. A screw isn't set perfectly tight, a sim card is punched slightly too small, Fed Ex drops the box and a tiny wire way inside snaps. and so on.

So long as the amount is small enough to be negligible, no serious injury or death occurs and the company makes good on repairing and or replacing, it's just part of the game.



Because Apple isn't responsible for fixing ATTs network.

there's nothing to fix in the phone itself. If there was we would see a lot more reports, especially coming from areas with the best ATT coverage. And Consumer Reports wouldn't have added that weak reception comment etc.

The iphone 4, while of course not perfect, is not flawed. The design is solid. It's the other side that has the problems.



Yeah and? Are you shocked that the compet didn't like having it called out that they aren't perfect either.




Exactly, the two are not the same thing.

To go back to my friends room analogy. You and I can start off shouting and depending on the noise in the room we can drop to a normal voice and be fine. Or we can start off standing next to each other and move apart and be fine. Or not. If more people are coming in the room.



I don't trust them to give out the numbers because of the fear that some folks will take any number that they deem high as 'you are crap' and either leave or not sign up. For example, 100k drops a month sounds huge to the uninformed, even if it might be out of a 1000 times that in attempts. ATT won't risk it.



It doesn't always mean they screwed with the numbers (perhaps the interpretation). They just don't want to give them out and that is the standard shut you down code phrase. Because as you said your own company knows that phrase etc.



Well sure. But the wise and considerate man looks at all the factors rather than knee jerking on one party. Because Apple made the phone, they carry the weight of a lot of the issues when it's not always on them. To their credit they make good on many of those issues because it's just not worth the time and energy.
The bumpers are a good example. The perception is out there, thanks to the media, that this bars issue is a major deal and that a case is the answer. Rather than waste time trying to convince the masses, Apple is just giving folks free bumpers. Why not, it's not really going to cost them that much since the silly things are like 10 cents to make and maybe another 5 cents to package. Come Sept 30th they will likely just have the bumpers in the box. You get a black one for free and if you want a color you have to buy it on your own.



I"m way younger than 53 but I do read Consumer Reports. However I read it with my brain on. I don't just blindly follow anyone. No matter the 'rep'. Which is also why I'm not holding my breath on my next Mac coming with a Blu-ray drive.



Exactly. If you are in a crappy service area anything is going to make it worse. If you are in a good or great area, it rarely to never matters what you do.


They are not NOW willing to refund your money. They have given a full refund on the phones since the first 3g came out. With an extended return period of a couple of days over double the standard 2 weeks, to be in line with ATT's no ETF period. And no restocking fee since they open the phone before they let you take it out of the store.

with the first iphone, there was a restocking fee although I remember reports of folks saying the managers waived it if you were returning it cause ATT sucked in your area.

That was one of the more insightful posts we’ve had on these forums in awhile. Too bad more members can’t see your points.

[BobVB]

With an extended return period of a couple of days over double the standard 2 weeks, to be in line with ATT's no ETF period.

I would love to see what people who preordered from  get as the last day of their 'No ETF' date when they call 611 on the phones. Existing customers that preordered from AT&T find that their 'No ETF' time clock started ticking the day the ordered the phone which means most first day orders are already beyond their return date. Since  was validating orders through the AT&T database, I would think that the same 'ticking' from order date would apply to their preorders too.

Anyone who preordered first day with  want to call and find out when their return window closes/has closed?

[PerfSeeker]

With an extended return period of a couple of days over double the standard 2 weeks, to be in line with ATT's no ETF period.

I would love to see what people who preordered from  get as the last day of their 'No ETF' date when they call 611 on the phones. Existing customers that preordered from AT&T find that their 'No ETF' time clock started ticking the day the ordered the phone which means most first day orders are already beyond their return date. Since  was validating orders through the AT&T database, I would think that the same 'ticking' from order date would apply to their preorders too.

Anyone who preordered first day with  want to call and find out when their return window closes/has closed?

How can the 30-day return window start ticking from the order date instead of from the activation date? Isn't that CHEATING?

[BobVB]

How can the 30-day return window start ticking from the order date instead of from the activation date? Isn't that CHEATING?
From their point of view you are accepting the new contract when you order the phone since that is a pre-requiste of getting the new phone. That you are also getting a new phone, eventually, doesn't change that the new contract went into effect as soon as you ordered it.

If people don't want to call 611 they can just call *639# and it will send a text message with the new 'upgrade' date which will be 18 months from the new contract date - if its 11/16/2011 that means the contract started on 6/15/2010 and the 'No ETF' date has passed.

[PerfSeeker]

From their point of view you are accepting the new contract when you order the phone since that is a pre-requiste of getting the new phone. That you are also getting a new phone, eventually, doesn't change that the new contract went into effect as soon as you ordered it.

If people don't want to call 611 they can just call *639# and it will send a text message with the new 'upgrade' date which will be 18 months from the new contract date - if its 11/16/2011 that means the contract started on 6/15/2010 and the 'No ETF' date has passed.

I completely did not understand what you just posted. :confused:

[BobVB]

I completely did not understand what you just posted. :confused:

Hmmmmm,
When an existing AT&T customer orders an upgrade phone at a subsidized price (in this case $199 or $299 for the iPhone 4) they are agreeing to a new 2 year contract with AT&T. The agree to that contract renewal the day they order the phone - when it actually arrives is irrelevant to when the contract's '30 days to terminate the contract without an Early Termination Fee' time period started, which is the date you ordered the phone.

To talk to an AT&T rep all iPhone 4 owners can call '611' and talk to one and they can see when that 30 days is considered up.

Alternatively, you can call *639# (which is *NEW#) which will make the AT&T send a text message with your new 'upgrade' date, which is 18 months past signing the new contract. For someone who signed a new contract on 6/15/2001 the date it would send in the text message would be 11/16/2011.

30 days past 6/15/2001 is past today, so that means that even though people could still return their iPhone 4s to Apple, they can't get out of their AT&T contract. That means they are stuck with the new contract which means they won't be able to get an upgraded phone again for 17 months, so no turning in the old iPhone and then getting a cheap new one if they fix it sometime in the nearer future.

[PerfSeeker]

Hmmmmm,
When an existing AT&T customer orders an upgrade phone at a subsidized price (in this case $199 or $299 for the iPhone 4) they are agreeing to a new 2 year contract with AT&T. The agree to that contract renewal the day they order the phone - when it actually arrives is irrelevant to when the contract's '30 days to terminate the contract without an Early Termination Fee' time period started, which is the date you ordered the phone.

To talk to an AT&T rep all iPhone 4 owners can call '611' and talk to one and they can see when that 30 days is considered up.

Alternatively, you can call *639# (which is *NEW#) which will make the AT&T send a text message with your new 'upgrade' date, which is 18 months past signing the new contract. For someone who signed a new contract on 6/15/2001 the date it would send in the text message would be 11/16/2011.

30 days past 6/15/2001 is past today, so that means that even though people could still return their iPhone 4s to Apple, they can't get out of their AT&T contract. That means they are stuck with the new contract which means they won't be able to get an upgraded phone again for 17 months, so no turning in the old iPhone and then getting a cheap new one if they fix it sometime in the nearer future.

In my case I'm a brand new customer, so I'm stuck for 2 years. :(

[BobVB]

In my case I'm a brand new customer, so I'm stuck for 2 years. :(
Did you do the *NEW# call? what date did it give you?

[PerfSeeker]

Did you do the *NEW# call? what date did it give you?

I just ordered the phone yesterday. Am I supposed to have gotten some notification to my existing phone?

[BobVB]

I just ordered the phone yesterday. Am I supposed to have gotten some notification to my existing phone?

Well then you aren't the first day preorders I was asking for. You probably have 30 days from yesterday to return it and get out of your contract.

[diamond.g]

Did you do the *NEW# call? what date did it give you?

Just to clarify I qualify on 06/19/2011. I pre-ordered on the 15th and didn't get my phone till the 23rd.

[PerfSeeker]

Well then you aren't the first day preorders I was asking for. You probably have 30 days from yesterday to return it and get out of your contract.

Huh AT&T will charge me $325 to get out of the contract, unless there is some 30-day clause?

[BobVB]

Just to clarify I qualify on 06/19/2011. I pre-ordered on the 15th and didn't get my phone till the 23rd.

And you pre-ordered from Apple? A couple of the AT&T people have slightly later dates too - I guess after the big crash it took them a few days to catch everyone back up. you have till today (most likely) to return your phone and still get out of the contract without ETF if you wanted to.

[diamond.g]

And you pre-ordered from Apple? A couple of the AT&T people have slightly later dates too - I guess after the big crash it took them a few days to catch everyone back up. you have till today (most likely) to return your phone and still get out of the contract without ETF if you wanted to.

Yup from Apple, during that cluster.... I understand why Consumer Reports rates the phone the highest. It is an awesome device, but I also can understand that due to the antenna issue (which I can reproduce by touching that corner, but doesn't affect me or the wife [that i have been able to tell] normally) they don't actually recommend the phone as a buy (for everyone). I look forward to the free bumper even though waiting for it would have put me past my return period anyways. In my case I know a case would help because the wife has a case on hers and cannot reproduce the issue like I can.

[PerfSeeker]

Ok, so I have 30 days to cancel the service contract without ETF as long as I haven't activated yet? Ok - I'm going straight to AT&T today to cancel this thing. I want Apple to sort out the antenna along with proximity sensor issue to my complete satisfaction before I plunk down $200 and $80/month on a service plan. We'll see.

[diamond.g]

Ok, so I have 30 days to cancel the service contract without ETF as long as I haven't activated yet? Ok - I'm going straight to AT&T today to cancel this thing. I want Apple to sort out the antenna along with proximity sensor issue to my complete satisfaction before I plunk down $200 and $80/month on a service plan. We'll see.

You have 30 days from the time you start service (which happens to be the day you ordered the phone) to cancel and not have to pay ETF.

[blueslate]

Did you do the *NEW# call? what date did it give you?

I pre-ordered on June 15th. Received and activated my phone on June 23rd.
The date I received from *NEW# call is 11.22.2011. This would appear that the 30 day clock begins when the phone is received or activated. Probably when received, but since my received date and activation date are the same, I can't tell the difference.

I am in no way interested in returning this phone. I am not having any signal issues and am receiving better reception than my previous 3G.

[PerfSeeker]

You have 30 days from the time you start service (which happens to be the day you ordered the phone) to cancel and not have to pay ETF.

That's a relief, I thought I was locked in for 2 years in AT&T and would have to get a Samsung Captivate. :eek:

[BobVB]

I pre-ordered on June 15th. Received and activated my phone on June 23rd.
The date I received from *NEW# call is 11.22.2011. This would appear that the 30 day clock begins when the phone is received or activated. Probably when received, but since my received date and activation date are the same, I can't tell the difference.
Well that would mean they had your new contract date as 6/21/2010. That seems quite a lot later than the the other 15th orders for AT&T at least (we've seen from the 14th to the 18th). Where you a brand new customer.

I have the corner covered and its doing ok, my big problem right now is the BlueTooth - it just randomly disconnects and reconnects and is very broken up when in use. I've tried my current and 2 legacy earpieces and its the same. Its like it doesn't have the range to get from your pants pocket to your ear - if I hold the phone up near my ear I get better reception...

[PerfSeeker]

Well that would mean they had your new contract date as 6/21/2010. That seems quite a lot later than the the other 15th orders for AT&T at least (we've seen from the 14th to the 18th). Where you a brand new customer.

I have the corner covered and its doing ok, my big problem right now is the BlueTooth - it just randomly disconnects and reconnects and is very broken up when in use. I've tried my current and 2 legacy earpieces and its the same. Its like it doesn't have the range to get from your pants pocket to your ear - if I hold the phone up near my ear I get better reception...

It's like Apple spent all their time perfecting the retina display, making the UI snappier and forgot to ensure quality with the wireless components. :(

[JestersWorld]

I think it's stupid because I have never heard of anyone buying anything related to consumer reports. All they don is judge, I'd like to see them be as creative as apple and make something instead of just judging apple, like they even matter. Didnt the iPhone 4 sell like a few million already? Seriously consumer reports if you can do better than make something instead of judging on your high horse. Jobs showed us that this problem happens in many other phones, so if you don't want an iPhone, like the song says, than don't buy one and if you do and it don't work, just bring it back. That's the way it works with everything else. At least apple is actually trying to fix the issue.:apple:

[PerfSeeker]

I think it's stupid because I have never heard of anyone buying anything related to consumer reports. All they don is judge, I'd like to see them be as creative as apple and make something instead of just judging apple, like they even matter. Didnt the iPhone 4 sell like a few million already? Seriously consumer reports if you can do better than make something instead of judging on your high horse. Jobs showed us that this problem happens in many other phones, so if you don't want an iPhone, like the song says, than don't buy one and if you do and it don't work, just bring it back. That's the way it works with everything else. At least apple is actually trying to fix the issue.:apple:

Sorry dude, but attacking the messenger is not going to work this time. Consumer Reports is THE most respected consumer product review service out there. If they say not to buy the IP4 because it's defective that means something. It's not an issue of being on a "high horse", I just don't want to use a defective device and be anxious about "holding it the wrong way". But sure, keep on fanboying.

[gehrbox]

Sorry dude, but attacking the messenger is not going to work this time. Consumer Reports is THE most respected consumer product review service out there. If they say not to buy the IP4 because it's defective that means something. It's not an issue of being on a "high horse", I just don't want to use a defective device and be anxious about "holding it the wrong way". But sure, keep on fanboying.

Actually I think they have been eclipsed by MythBusters:)

[MacinDoc]

It's like Apple spent all their time perfecting the retina display, making the UI snappier and forgot to ensure quality with the wireless components. :(
More like they made an engineering decision that when moving the antenna to the outside of the device, the improved overall reception outweighed the increased signal attenuation from touching the device in one specific place. All reviews I have read have agreed that antenna performance is improved overall. Apple simply misjudged which issue would be a bigger concern to the average consumer.

This will likely also be a tradeoff of putting the phone in a case. The attenuation issue will be reduced, but so will overall antenna performance.

The bottom line is, with current technology, antenna performance is limited by whatever the antenna has to transmit through, whether it is the casing or whatever surfaces an external antenna comes in contact with. As strange as it may sound, SJ's suggestion to hold the device in a different way may be the best advice to get the best possible reception from your phone.

One final note: it may be possible to boost the power sent to the antenna when the signal attenuates. This may allow Apple to address this issue with a firmware update, but this would entail a tradeoff with battery life. So, as you can see, engineering decisions are never just "put in a better antenna"; there is always a price to pay in terms of some other attribute of the device, and you must decide what engineering cost you are prepared to pay for the desired result.

[8-Bits]

People attacking Consumer Reports are making a big mistake. CR has found major defects in automobiles for years and have forced car manufacturers around the world to correct safety problems. They matter, and all major companies know it.

Even if Apple has a better testing lab (you know, the $100 million dollar thing + 18 engineers with PhDs) than CR, they don't have an unbiased agenda.

Everyone will be better off when Apple actually responds to CR and fixes the iP4.

[PerfSeeker]

More like they made an engineering decision that when moving the antenna to the outside of the device, the improved overall reception outweighed the increased signal attenuation from touching the device in one specific place. All reviews I have read have agreed that antenna performance is improved overall. Apple simply misjudged which issue would be a bigger concern to the average consumer.

This will likely also be a tradeoff of putting the phone in a case. The attenuation issue will be reduced, but so will overall antenna performance.

The bottom line is, with current technology, antenna performance is limited by whatever the antenna has to transmit through, whether it is the casing or whatever surfaces an external antenna comes in contact with. As strange as it may sound, SJ's suggestion to hold the device in a different way may be the best advice to get the best possible reception from your phone.

One final note: it may be possible to boost the power sent to the antenna when the signal attenuates. This may allow Apple to address this issue with a firmware update, but this would entail a tradeoff with battery life. So, as you can see, engineering decisions are never just "put in a better antenna"; there is always a price to pay in terms of some other attribute of the device, and you must decide what engineering cost you are prepared to pay for the desired result.

All you are doing is making an argument for why the new antenna design should have remained in testing as a prototype. I think people would rather have less average reception, but not have the death-grip issue then obsessing about avoiding the gap. Most consumers are pretty finicky about that kind of thing. I think Steve Jobs also realized it - he sounded pretty defeated during the PC.

[srxtr]

Yeah, let's all blame AT&T so that they can finally fix their crappy network.

And I don't mean that sarcastically.

[Swift]

consumer reports are gonna be banned by Apple

no apple event(s) tickets for you!

They were invited to the press conference. You know, this cartoon image of Apple has really got to be dropped. Gizmodo wasn't asked. Consumer Reports matters.

[Richard1028]

Aside from worshiping Apple, do any of you have lives? Jobs? Families?

It's just a freaking phone peeps.

[iPadPublisher]

I don't recommend Consumer Reports.

Me either. :)

[iPadPublisher]

Aside from worshiping Apple, do any of you have lives? Jobs? Families?

It's just a freaking phone peeps.

Aren't you here reading and posting as well? Where's your life and family?

Or is it possible that its okay for people to spend their free time reading and posting in forums? Call me crazy... but...

[srxtr]

Aside from worshiping Apple, do any of you have lives? Jobs? Families?

It's just a freaking phone peeps.

We like to take breaks from Angry Bird once in awhile.

Why are you here?

[gehrbox]

People attacking Consumer Reports are making a big mistake. CR has found major defects in automobiles for years and have forced car manufacturers around the world to correct safety problems. They matter, and all major companies know it.

Even if Apple has a better testing lab (you know, the $100 million dollar thing + 18 engineers with PhDs) than CR, they don't have an unbiased agenda.

Everyone will be better off when Apple actually responds to CR and fixes the iP4.

You don't know Apple.

[gehrbox]

Aside from worshiping Apple, do any of you have lives? Jobs? Families?

It's just a freaking phone peeps.

It's the freaking weekend, it's not a freaking phone it's a computer that makes calls, my family is upset because I have an iPhone4 and they still have to use a 3GS.

[gehrbox]

I think it's stupid because I have never heard of anyone buying anything related to consumer reports. All they don is judge, I'd like to see them be as creative as apple and make something instead of just judging apple, like they even matter. Didnt the iPhone 4 sell like a few million already? Seriously consumer reports if you can do better than make something instead of judging on your high horse. Jobs showed us that this problem happens in many other phones, so if you don't want an iPhone, like the song says, than don't buy one and if you do and it don't work, just bring it back. That's the way it works with everything else. At least apple is actually trying to fix the issue.:apple:

+3

[gehrbox]

it may be possible to boost the power sent to the antenna when the signal attenuates. This may allow Apple to address this issue with a firmware update, but this would entail a tradeoff with battery life. So, as you can see, engineering decisions are never just "put in a better antenna"; there is always a price to pay in terms of some other attribute of the device, and you must decide what engineering cost you are prepared to pay for the desired result.

I can see it now:

AppleCare: "Hello, Applecare how can I help you?".

Customer :"ya my battery life stinks sometimes"

AppleCare :"sir, it sounds like you may be holding it wrong"

[gehrbox]

We like to take breaks from Angry Bird once in awhile.

Why are you here?

Angry Birds is great for killing time, but clearly this thread requires less thought.

[MacinDoc]

All you are doing is making an argument for why the new antenna design should have remained in testing as a prototype. I think people would rather have less average reception, but not have the death-grip issue then obsessing about avoiding the gap. Most consumers are pretty finicky about that kind of thing. I think Steve Jobs also realized it - he sounded pretty defeated during the PC.
I'm not defending Apple's choice, merely explaining that a choice had to be made. At the time, SJ thought that the external antenna was the right choice, but now I wonder whether he regrets that decision.

Of course, with a case, you can have an iP4 that is functionally as it would have been with an internal antenna. The difference is, of course, the effect of the case on the appearance of the device.

[leroypants]

Sorry dude, but attacking the messenger is not going to work this time. Consumer Reports is THE most respected consumer product review service out there. If they say not to buy the IP4 because it's defective that means something. It's not an issue of being on a "high horse", I just don't want to use a defective device and be anxious about "holding it the wrong way". But sure, keep on fanboying.


+1


It is good to see that some people are not drinking the kool aid.

[MacinDoc]

I can see it now:

AppleCare: "Hello, Applecare how can I help you?".

Customer :"ya my battery life stinks sometimes"

AppleCare :"sir, it sounds like you may be holding it wrong"
FWIW, every cell phone I have ever owned had lousy battery life when held over the antenna. In fact, all of them have specifically stated in the owner manual to avoid holding the phone over the antenna area to improve battery life. Difference was that the antenna was usually housed in the top 1/3 of the phone, where it can no longer be placed due to regulations in some countries.

[gehrbox]

Of course, with a case, you can have an iP4 that is functionally as it would have been with an internal antenna. The difference is, of course, the affect of the case on the appearance of the device.

Considering most use a case anyway the whole complaint is mute and Apple is going to GIVE everybody a free case. Jeez the world is full of whiners ( not directed at you )

It is good to see that some people are not drinking the kool aid.

Especially fact filled kool aid?

FWIW, every cell phone I have ever owned had lousy battery life when held over the antenna. In fact, all of them have specifically stated in the owner manual to avoid holding the phone over the antenna area to improve battery life. Difference was that the antenna was usually housed in the top 1/3 of the phone, where it can no longer be placed due to regulations in some countries.

Never noticed that, but then again I never read the manual on a cell phone.

[srxtr]

The day after I got my iPhone 3G, I tested the 3G connection using speedtest. I found out that the up/down rate was less than half as fast when holding the phone in my hand vs leaving it on the table. But I still used it for nearly 2 years.

My iPhone 4 doesn't have this problem.

[gehrbox]

The day after I got my iPhone 3G, I tested the 3G connection using speedtest. I found out that the up/down rate was less than half as fast when holding the phone in my hand vs leaving it on the table. But I still used it for nearly 2 years.

My iPhone 4 doesn't have this problem.

Facts have never stopped the press from ignoring them.

[leroypants]

I think it's stupid because I have never heard of anyone buying anything related to consumer reports. All they don is judge, I'd like to see them be as creative as apple and make something instead of just judging apple, like they even matter.

:rolleyes: Steve Jobs would be proud of your faithful post, a typical fan boy answer.


Didnt the iPhone 4 sell like a few million already? Seriously consumer reports if you can do better than make something instead of judging on your high horse.

That is just plain idiotic, I don't know if i cant explain it in such a simplistic way for you to be able to understand. CR is not in business to create products but to review. Apple has used CR reviews in it's own training material. Your opinion of CR is not based on anything other than apple fanboyism. If CR recommended it people like you would be proclaiming how wonderful and useful CR is. Millions of people use CR for their reviews, for thousands of products.

Jobs showed us that this problem happens in many other phones, so if you don't want an iPhone, like the song says, than don't buy one and if you do and it don't work, just bring it back. That's the way it works with everything else. At least apple is actually trying to fix the issue.:apple:


Wrong in so many ways. First he showed a video that more than a few people question. I am sure that you believe in UFOs, big foot and santa, since their is video of all three.

Second it is pathetic how apple fanboys are so willing to accept a phone that is obviously flawed, just because the master tells them it is ok. Jobs admitted that the phone is defective and tried to deflect by showing at best questionable videos of other phones. A fix would be a recall and a redesign, not a 12 cent piece of rubber.

Facts have never stopped the press from ignoring them.


Actually i think you meant facts have never stopped the fanboys from ignoring them.

Sorry dude, but attacking the messenger is not going to work this time. Consumer Reports is THE most respected consumer product review service out there. If they say not to buy the IP4 because it's defective that means something. It's not an issue of being on a "high horse", I just don't want to use a defective device and be anxious about "holding it the wrong way". But sure, keep on fanboying.

I wish more people were this intelligent. I love my 3gs but after the nightmare of the IP4 i had no choice but to take it back.

[-aggie-]

Facts have never stopped the press from ignoring them.

Isn’t that the truth.

iPhone 4, best iPhone I’ve had for so many reasons.

[gehrbox]

I wish more people were this intelligent. I love my 3gs but after the nightmare of the IP4 i had no choice but to take it back.

You consider dissatisfaction over the purchase of a phone a nightmare?

[kernkraft]

Considering most use a case anyway the whole complaint is mute and Apple is going to GIVE everybody a free case. Jeez the world is full of whiners ( not directed at you )

Especially fact filled kool aid?

Never noticed that, but then again I never read the manual on a cell phone.

3 consecutive post - you are very keen, aren't you?

Oh, I almost missed you...

I wish more people were this intelligent. I love my 3gs but after the nightmare of the IP4 i had no choice but to take it back.

Actually i think you meant facts have never stopped the fanboys from ignoring them.

:rolleyes: Steve Jobs would be proud of your faithful post, a typical fan boy answer.

This is the sort of stuff that some Norwegian moderator gives you a warning! (In fact, I was given two for accidentally posting consecutively. :) )

[gehrbox]

Actually i think you meant facts have never stopped the fanboys from ignoring them.

I'm sorry you missunderstood what I typed. I meant to say exactly what I typed.

[kernkraft]

I wish more people were this intelligent. I love my 3gs but after the nightmare of the IP4 i had no choice but to take it back.

Actually i think you meant facts have never stopped the fanboys from ignoring them.

:rolleyes: Steve Jobs would be proud of your faithful post, a typical fan boy answer.




That is just plain idiotic, I don't know if i cant explain it in such a simplistic way for you to be able to understand. CR is not in business to create products but to review. Apple has used CR reviews in it's own training material. Your opinion of CR is not based on anything other than apple fanboyism. If CR recommended it people like you would be proclaiming how wonderful and useful CR is. Millions of people use CR for their reviews, for thousands of products.




Wrong in so many ways. First he showed a video that more than a few people question. I am sure that you believe in UFOs, big foot and santa, since their is video of all three.

Second it is pathetic how apple fanboys are so willing to accept a phone that is obviously flawed, just because the master tells them it is ok. Jobs admitted that the phone is defective and tried to deflect by showing at best questionable videos of other phones. A fix would be a recall and a redesign, not a 12 cent piece of rubber.

Yes, I saw these ones too. I reedited my post.

You don't know Apple.

It's the freaking weekend, it's not a freaking phone it's a computer that makes calls, my family is upset because I have an iPhone4 and they still have to use a 3GS.

+3

I can see it now:

AppleCare: "Hello, Applecare how can I help you?".

Customer :"ya my battery life stinks sometimes"

AppleCare :"sir, it sounds like you may be holding it wrong"

Angry Birds is great for killing time, but clearly this thread requires less thought.

I'm going for a record.

Jesus Christ, you've had 5 before that!!! :eek:

Sir, you are breaking the rules!

[scoobydoo99]

And in time cr will lose it's audience and credibility for manipulating reports, which is already insignificant. Don't know one person who cares about cr. Not in my field.

Agreed.
There are some in this thread who have claimed Apple fanboys are attacking CR just because of the iPhone4 "non-recommendation." This is absolutely not true. CR has always been a rag, and I can't imagine anyone with any common sense putting any faith in their reports or recommendations. As I've said before, they know a little about a lot of products, but not much about anything. Want a car? Go read independent tests in Car & Driver. Want a new 3D TV? Read Sound & Vision test results. Same applies for anything else - Consumer Reports is not recognized as an authority on ANYTHING. Even if they wholeheartedly endorsed iPhone4, they would still be useless.

[leroypants]

You consider dissatisfaction over the purchase of a phone a nightmare?

I consider a phone that has a design flaw backed by a company who knew about it and refuses to do a real fix for it a nightmare experience. I am not a fanboy who will defend a defective device because of my blind devotion. I will stick with my 3GS until the IP4.1 comes out and works right.

[PerfSeeker]

I'm not defending Apple's choice, merely explaining that a choice had to be made. At the time, SJ thought that the external antenna was the right choice, but now I wonder whether he regrets that decision.

Of course, with a case, you can have an iP4 that is functionally as it would have been with an internal antenna. The difference is, of course, the effect of the case on the appearance of the device.

Also how is the IP4 the most advanced antenna compared to Motorola's dual-antenna for the Droid X? Which company has a lot more experience in designing antennas?

[igirlca]

Except your beloved Nexus One is one of the worst smartphones when you speak about basics like reception and battery life ...
But yeah, we trust you :D


froyo gets a reported 2 days of moderate/heavy use even with flash on, this is widely reported, and not just from me..sorry, extremely wrong here.

[LagunaSol]

Jesus Christ

Sir, you are breaking the rules!

So are you. :(

froyo gets a reported 2 days of moderate/heavy use even with flash on, this is widely reported, and not just from me..sorry, extremely wrong here.

2 days heavy use? Link(s) please?

[gehrbox]

Yes, I saw these ones too. I reedited my post.













Jesus Christ, you've had 5 before that!!! :eek:

Sir, you are breaking the rules!

Isnt using the lords name in vain worse?

[kernkraft]

So are you. :(



2 days heavy use? Link(s) please?


Can you explain a bit further? At the moment it seems to me that you just tried to argue with me and this is all you had to pick on.

[igirlca]

anyone attacking consumer reports credibility needs a brain check, while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, they have long been the nations most trusted consumer advocacy groups in the country. i doubt you had a problem with them raving about the previous iphone models. just cause they say it's great in all other areas and still not recommended says that apple needs to address the issue, this will go down in history as a major mistake by apple, the end.

[LagunaSol]

Can you explain a bit further? At the moment it seems to me that you just tried to argue with me and this is all you had to pick on.

Profanity is a violation of forum rules. Seems only fair to avoid it when you're accusing someone else of breaking forum rules, no?

Agreed.
There are some in this thread who have claimed Apple fanboys are attacking CR just because of the iPhone4 "non-recommendation." This is absolutely not true. CR has always been a rag, and I can't imagine anyone with any common sense putting any faith in their reports or recommendations.

I've always found CR to be objective and fairly competent - of course their "advice" should not be deemed the final word by any diligent consumer, but it's a good reference point. I have no problem with CR's findings on the iPhone. I'm sure they are accurate. What I do have a problem with is the fact that they (nor apparently anyone else) has ever thoroughly tested other smartphones to locate the signal-destroying "weak spot" - which most phones surely have - as a subset of their testing routine and subsequently base a Recommended/Not Recommended judgment on that fact alone as they did with the iPhone 4. Nor did they point out this "flaw" may not affect most users in real-world use (a fact validated by the return and complaint numbers presented by Apple). To me the lack of objectivity in this regard reeks of a publicity stunt. And they're certainly getting loads of publicity from it. I've lost a lot of respect for the organization for that fact, though I'd love to see them prove me wrong by putting competitors' products through the equivalent testing process.

I bet they could figure out how to kill reception on the Droid X if they really tried...

And while there were reports of the Nexus One facing a similar fate as the iPhone 4, I don't recall hearing about it on CNN, the New York Times, Oprah, via President Obama's Address to the Nation, printed from leaflets being dropped from the sky, scrolling across my TV screen as a test of the emergency broadcast system...

Only Apple, it seems, merits this kind of scrutiny. Or Apple's competitors' PR departments are impressively skilled in the art of FUD...

[rcandre2]

Exactly. And it would seem that it's only an issue for ATT owners as there are no multiple complaints from outside the US. Perhaps a handful in large metro areas in Europe (I imagine London might have a couple of trouble areas) but that's all.

And this just supports that this is more a carrier issue than some fictitious "major design flaw"



$100 million and with a great antenna, ATT is still screwing up and folks are still blaming it on Apple.




That makes no sense at all. I think you were trying to say that those that called Applecare to say their phones aren't working are stupid? yes.

Well your comment is actually the stupid one. Apple didn't say that some phones could be defective. Sure they can't. It's just part of making electronics. It happens. And yes folks should call Applecare or go to a store.

What they said was that their data just doesn't support the notion that this is an ISSUE (ie a major design F-up). Because if it was, the numbers would be much higher.



Because no one has called into question their testing methods. It passed the FCC etc. And unlike Consumer Reports who was called out less than 6 hours after their big study was published for having faulty testing methods (leaving the issue of the sampling aside), no one has jumped up to say the same for Apple. And given all the hype if there was reason, they would



Because there is no flaw. What is happening is part of the unfortunate side effects of the rules on cell phone tech. All phones have things that decade the signal, be it fingers, building walls, etc. All phones lose reception etc.

Even Consumer Reports said 'areas of weak reception' and nothing about those in good or great reception. Implying that whatever is happening is a total non issue for the latter folks



Not the bad press, but rather the response. Because the presence of the 'bad press' will lead to many sources posting the news story that Apple responded to them etc. If your trusted news source gives a thumbs up to that reply, then for many that's all it takes to be convinced that the bad press was just sour grapes



maybe with other things, but for many especially in the US, your cell phone is THE phone in your life. So if it is not working, you will have it serviced, return it etc right away.



There will possibly be a spike over the next couple of weeks. Due to those in crappy ATT areas getting the message that crappy ATT is not going to be all that less crappy just cause they got a hip cool phone. So if Verizon is the great carrier in that area, that's who they should be using and yeah it sucks that they can't have the cool phone etc.

But there's no reason to believe that the spike will be that huge given that the issue isn't a design flaw at all and thus effects a small group. Or lasting since those in crap zones won't buy the phone after all (and many of those that don't know will be more careful to find out before switching phones and/or carriers)



We might. It all depends on whether that number still falls within Apple and the Government's acceptable range of defect.

These types of devices are complex and even the most perfect design will have problems with manufacturing issues. A screw isn't set perfectly tight, a sim card is punched slightly too small, Fed Ex drops the box and a tiny wire way inside snaps. and so on.

So long as the amount is small enough to be negligible, no serious injury or death occurs and the company makes good on repairing and or replacing, it's just part of the game.



Because Apple isn't responsible for fixing ATTs network.

there's nothing to fix in the phone itself. If there was we would see a lot more reports, especially coming from areas with the best ATT coverage. And Consumer Reports wouldn't have added that weak reception comment etc.

The iphone 4, while of course not perfect, is not flawed. The design is solid. It's the other side that has the problems.



Yeah and? Are you shocked that the compet didn't like having it called out that they aren't perfect either.




Exactly, the two are not the same thing.

To go back to my friends room analogy. You and I can start off shouting and depending on the noise in the room we can drop to a normal voice and be fine. Or we can start off standing next to each other and move apart and be fine. Or not. If more people are coming in the room.



I don't trust them to give out the numbers because of the fear that some folks will take any number that they deem high as 'you are crap' and either leave or not sign up. For example, 100k drops a month sounds huge to the uninformed, even if it might be out of a 1000 times that in attempts. ATT won't risk it.



It doesn't always mean they screwed with the numbers (perhaps the interpretation). They just don't want to give them out and that is the standard shut you down code phrase. Because as you said your own company knows that phrase etc.



Well sure. But the wise and considerate man looks at all the factors rather than knee jerking on one party. Because Apple made the phone, they carry the weight of a lot of the issues when it's not always on them. To their credit they make good on many of those issues because it's just not worth the time and energy.
The bumpers are a good example. The perception is out there, thanks to the media, that this bars issue is a major deal and that a case is the answer. Rather than waste time trying to convince the masses, Apple is just giving folks free bumpers. Why not, it's not really going to cost them that much since the silly things are like 10 cents to make and maybe another 5 cents to package. Come Sept 30th they will likely just have the bumpers in the box. You get a black one for free and if you want a color you have to buy it on your own.



I"m way younger than 53 but I do read Consumer Reports. However I read it with my brain on. I don't just blindly follow anyone. No matter the 'rep'. Which is also why I'm not holding my breath on my next Mac coming with a Blu-ray drive.



Exactly. If you are in a crappy service area anything is going to make it worse. If you are in a good or great area, it rarely to never matters what you do.



They are not NOW willing to refund your money. They have given a full refund on the phones since the first 3g came out. With an extended return period of a couple of days over double the standard 2 weeks, to be in line with ATT's no ETF period. And no restocking fee since they open the phone before they let you take it out of the store.

with the first iphone, there was a restocking fee although I remember reports of folks saying the managers waived it if you were returning it cause ATT sucked in your area.

The antenna design is flawed.

You must be a very bored kid to waste an entire day on this ridiculous post.... Or maybe you're just grounded. Maybe someday when your guardian let's you try his phone you will realize how bad the reception is due to Apple's failure to do their due diligence.

[thedoctor9]

I want the white iphone. I don't care what CR says. I don't care...I don't care...I don't care...I don't care...I don't care... :D

Everybody, lighten up.

[alhedges]

I want the white iphone. I don't care what CR says. I don't care...I don't care...I don't care...I don't care...I don't care... :D

Out of almost 1000 comments, this is by far the most intellectually honest.

[macsmurf]

Profanity is a violation of forum rules. Seems only fair to avoid it when you're accusing someone else of breaking forum rules, no?


Is writing Jesus Christ really considered profanity in the US?


What I do have a problem with is the fact that they (nor apparently anyone else) has ever thoroughly tested other smartphones to locate the signal-destroying "weak spot" - which most phones surely have -


If it was the same issue that all phones have, you shouldn't be able to fix it by insulating the antenna with a piece of tape. This very simple fact escapes an awful lot of people. It's like watching the stages of grief at work.

[RalfTheDog]

The antenna design is flawed.

You must be a very bored kid to waste an entire day on this ridiculous post.... Or maybe you're just grounded. Maybe someday when your guardian let's you try his phone you will realize how bad the reception is due to Apple's failure to do their due diligence.

Just put a stupid bumper on it and it has the best reception in the industry. It is quite hard to call something flawed when it is better than it's competition.

[LagunaSol]

Is writing Jesus Christ really considered profanity in the US?

It is when it's used in a profane way.

[RalfTheDog]

froyo gets a reported 2 days of moderate/heavy use even with flash on, this is widely reported, and not just from me..sorry, extremely wrong here.

Unless you touch that spot just above the earphone jack. Then you lose all signal, the batteries run down to zero and the phone catches fire killing anyone standing close to you.

[RalfTheDog]

It is when it's used in a profane way.

Marmot Soup is thought to be profanity when it is used in a profane way. (It is somewhat harder to use Marmot Soup in a profane way. It just does not come out right when you stub your toe.)

[macsmurf]

It is when it's used in a profane way.

Wow, you actually "missed" the part where I wrote that if it was the same issue that all phones have, you shouldn't be able to fix it by insulating the antenna with a piece of tape. It's classic denial.

[leroypants]

Agreed.
There are some in this thread who have claimed Apple fanboys are attacking CR just because of the iPhone4 "non-recommendation." This is absolutely not true. CR has always been a rag, and I can't imagine anyone with any common sense putting any faith in their reports or recommendations.

You are lying, i know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Apple has used prior CR reports before in sales and training materials. I did not see anyone attacking CR when they had good reviews about the previous iphones. Millions of people use CR when buying products. It is one of the most respected review organizations in America (unless your an apple fanboy).


As I've said before, they know a little about a lot of products, but not much about anything. Want a car? Go read independent tests in Car & Driver. Want a new 3D TV? Read Sound & Vision test results. Same applies for anything else - Consumer Reports is not recognized as an authority on ANYTHING.

:rolleyes: It funny, actually no it is sad that you think those two magazines are more independent than CR. Once again Consumer Reports is recognized and highly respected for their independent reviews (unless you are an apple fanboy). Millions use Cr for their reviews, on thousand of products



Even if they wholeheartedly endorsed iPhone4, they would still be useless.

:rolleyes: If they wholeheartedly endorsed the IP4 then Apple would not have had to have an emergency conference where they admitted that the iphone was defective. If CR wholeheartedly endorsed the IP4 90% of the CR haters here would be in love when them. I know is is sacrilegious to speak ill of anything apple, so i understand why people are so angry with CR.

[Jookbox]

Apple screwed up. Deal with it.

[LagunaSol]

If it was the same issue that all phones have, you shouldn't be able to fix it by insulating the antenna with a piece of tape. This very simple fact escapes an awful lot of people. It's like watching the stages of grief at work.

Too bad fixing this issue with other phones isn't as simple as applying a piece of tape (or a rubber bumper). ;)

As for "stages of grief" and "classic denial" - I have no problem with my iPhone 4. No dramatic tears or cyber-rage here. It Just Works (TM). *shrug*

[RalfTheDog]

Wow, you actually "missed" the part where I wrote that if it was the same issue that all phones have, you shouldn't be able to fix it by insulating the antenna with a piece of tape. It's classic denial.

Wow, you actually "Missed" the part where the iP4 gets better reception than many smart phones without a bumper and blows the top of the reception charts off when you put on a bumper.

When something works well without the fix and extremely well when you add a painless fix, you can't call it broken.

[RalfTheDog]

Apple screwed up. Deal with it.

I live at an ATT low signal spot. I get signal in the basement without the bumper when holding the phone the wrong way. This is not an issue.

[macsmurf]

Too bad fixing this issue with other phones isn't as simple as applying a piece of tape (or a rubber bumper). ;)

Yes. It's obviously a feature :D

[leroypants]

I live at an ATT low signal spot. I get signal in the basement without the bumper when holding the phone the wrong way. This is not an issue.


I have a Toyota, i have never had the accelerator get suck, so the problem was not real. The stuck accelerator was a "non issue" because I did not have the problem, and it means that no one else on the planet had the problem, just like your phone.

[macsmurf]

Wow, you actually "Missed" the part where the iP4 gets better reception than many smart phones without a bumper and blows the top of the reception charts off when you put on a bumper.

When something works well without the fix and extremely well when you add a painless fix, you can't call it broken.

Reconsider the use of the word "fix" when trying to convince someone something isn't broken.

I think it is a bad idea for Apple to try to pass this off as the same issue as all phones have when it is obviously two separate issues - one of them being fixable. It's fairly apparent and does them no good.

[macsmurf]

I have a Toyota, i have never had the accelerator get suck, so the problem was not real. The stuck accelerator was a "non issue" because I did not have the problem, and it means that no one else on the planet had the problem, just like your phone.

...And even if it did, it would only result in you getting to your destination faster. What can be wrong with that?

[MorphingDragon]

Marmot Soup is thought to be profanity when it is used in a profane way. (It is somewhat harder to use Marmot Soup in a profane way. It just does not come out right when you stub your toe.)

If you really want to be profane, say scunthorpe until it becomes meaningless syllables with a slight hidden cuss.

(Scunthorpe is a place)

[RalfTheDog]

I have a Toyota, i have never had the accelerator get suck, so the problem was not real. The stuck accelerator was a "non issue" because I did not have the problem, and it means that no one else on the planet had the problem, just like your phone.

I drive an S-2000 I had the accelerator get stuck once. I reached down, pulled up the floor mat and it unstuck (less than a second). When I got home, I ditched the floor mat and the problem was solved forever. Many cars have accelerators that get stuck. I don't think Toyota had more of a problem than Honda or Ford. The fix is easy. The problem is trivial.

You can cause a Droid to lose signal by gripping it the wrong way. Same for a Blackberry. I don't see it as a problem just because some 98 year old lady in N. Dakota has a signal drop when she gets confused and tries to eat her phone.

All phones have issues. All cars have issues. This one is easy to fix and effects a small number of people.

[RalfTheDog]

...And even if it did, it would only result in you getting to your destination faster. What can be wrong with that?

Final destination.

[macsmurf]

Final destination.

"Everybody dies. With Toyota, you can get there before the rush."

[quagmire]

...And even if it did, it would only result in you getting to your destination faster. What can be wrong with that?

A Toyota can go faster then 30 MPH? :eek::p

[Thex1138]

They rate it the best but not recommend to buy it...?

Isn't that trying to have the cake and eat it?

It does not bode well for their sense of ratings when you think about it.
:rolleyes:

[gehrbox]

I have a Toyota, i have never had the accelerator get suck, so the problem was not real. The stuck accelerator was a "non issue" because I did not have the problem, and it means that no one else on the planet had the problem, just like your phone.

The iPhone4 behavior is more analogous to an SUV being unable to corner as fast as say a Mustang. It's a design limitation. It's known and the owners deal with it.

[RalfTheDog]

A Toyota can go faster then 30 MPH? :eek::p

Dude, with a bit of tweaking, you can push 200.

[leroypants]

You can cause a Droid to lose signal by gripping it the wrong way. Same for a Blackberry. I don't see it as a problem just because some 98 year old lady in N. Dakota has a signal drop when she gets confused and tries to eat her phone.

All phones have issues. This one is easy to fix and effects a small number of people.


Steve Jobs would be very proud of the way you recycle his talking points. I guess the new apple slogan should be " It just works (and if it doesn't work for you it doesn't matter)". I guess trying to hold the phone in my left hand and make a call from downtown Boston was far too much for me to expect.

Not all phones have those antenna issues. Apple produced a video under ideal conditions for the outcome that will help them defend their defective product.

[LagunaSol]

Yes. It's obviously a feature :D

Apparently RIM forgot to add this feature (being able to fix signal degradation via hand grip with a piece of tape) to the BlackBerry Bold 9650.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/17/can-you-make-your-current-phone-lose-signal-depending-on-how-you-hold-it/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheBoyGeniusReport+%28Boy+Genius+Report%29

Yet I don't expect to see this reported via the New York Times, CNN, Consumer Reports, and every tech website in the known universe. :rolleyes:

Hey CR, where's the Not Recommended rating for the Bold 9650? Nay, CR said

"A very good choice for heavy-duty Office and BlackBerry e-mail users and world-traveling Sprint customers."

and gave it a Recommended rating.

The double-standard here is astounding.

[-aggie-]

Steve Jobs would be very proud of the way you recycle his talking points. I guess the new apple slogan should be " It just works (and if it doesn't work for you it doesn't matter)". I guess trying to hold the phone in my left hand and make a call from downtown Boston was far too much for me to expect.

Not all phones have those antenna issues. Apple produced a video under ideal conditions for the outcome that will help them defend their defective product.

So, what’s the point of complaining about it here? Apple said what they would do at the press conference. That’s it.

[jav6454]

Steve Jobs would be very proud of the way you recycle his talking points. I guess the new apple slogan should be " It just works (and if it doesn't work for you it doesn't matter)". I guess trying to hold the phone in my left hand and make a call from downtown Boston was far too much for me to expect.

Not all phones have those antenna issues. Apple produced a video under ideal conditions for the outcome that will help them defend their defective product.

I see no point in this post. It lacks logical and critical thinking skills. Also, Apple gave you a fix. Not happy? Return the phone.

[MorphingDragon]

Apparently RIM forgot to add this feature (being able to fix signal degradation via hand grip with a piece of tape) to the BlackBerry Bold 9650.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/17/can-you-make-your-current-phone-lose-signal-depending-on-how-you-hold-it/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheBoyGeniusReport+%28Boy+Genius+Report%29

Yet I don't expect to see this reported via the New York Times, CNN, Consumer Reports, and every tech website in the known universe. :rolleyes:

Hey CR, where's the Not Recommended rating for the Bold 9650? Nay, CR said



and gave it a Recommended rating.

The double-standard here is astounding.

Or they simply expect more of Apple because they've proven time and again that they can make a phone the mass public actually want to use.

[Max(IT)]

Or the joke is on the likes of you, who believe (with the emphasis on believe) everything iGod says. Ahh yes, those videos. Very convincing evidence :rolleyes:
very interesting point of view. So the videos are convincing evidence ONLY when it comes to blame iPhone 4.
If Apple use the SAME media, backed up with real data, they are a convincing evidence no more ...
I think YOU are the joke, here ...

I live in a place where the signal is week, and I have no problem. I think you should change your comment to, "If you are afraid of largely imaginary problems that effect almost no one, you shouldn't buy an iPhone.

I see no issue with the iP4.
right.

I may be new here but I'm definitely not new to Apple or their products. In fact, I was probably a Apple user while you were still sucking on a pacifier in a crib.
Nice try but wrong target, dude.
I'm almost 40, and I'm a Mac user since 1988 ...
Next time maybe.

[LagunaSol]

very interesting point of view. So the videos are convincing evidence ONLY when it comes to blame iPhone 4.
If Apple use the SAME media, backed up with real data, they are a convincing evidence no more ...

Apparently koolaid comes in flavors other than Apple, eh? ;)

[AidenShaw]

Or they simply expect more of Apple because they've proven time and again that they can make a phone the mass public actually want to use.

Let me fix that:

Or they simply expect more of Apple because they've proven time and again that they can used to be able to make a phone the mass public actually want to use.

In spite of the current "close to release date" shortages - "antennagate" could easily erode Apple's "cachet" and cripple longer term sales. When the Iphone4 is the topic of standup comedian's acts, that will affect sales. Whining that "you're holding it wrong" is technically a misquote won't improve sales.

[Max(IT)]

I'm not defending Apple's choice, merely explaining that a choice had to be made. At the time, SJ thought that the external antenna was the right choice, but now I wonder whether he regrets that decision.

Of course, with a case, you can have an iP4 that is functionally as it would have been with an internal antenna. The difference is, of course, the effect of the case on the appearance of the device.
I think he regrets that decision, now. But that doesn't mean the design is flawed ...

froyo gets a reported 2 days of moderate/heavy use even with flash on, this is widely reported, and not just from me..sorry, extremely wrong here.
maybe in your parallel dimension ...
In the real world, Nexus One has less battery life than iPhone 3GS, as Anandtech proved a few days ago ...
LINK (http://www.anandtech.com/show/3791/the-sprint-htc-evo-4g-review/12)
sorry, extremely wrong here.



2 days heavy use? Link(s) please?
I provided a very different evidence ;)

Apparently RIM forgot to add this feature (being able to fix signal degradation via hand grip with a piece of tape) to the BlackBerry Bold 9650.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/17/can-you-make-your-current-phone-lose-signal-depending-on-how-you-hold-it/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheBoyGeniusReport+%28Boy+Genius+Report%29

Yet I don't expect to see this reported via the New York Times, CNN, Consumer Reports, and every tech website in the known universe. :rolleyes:

Hey CR, where's the Not Recommended rating for the Bold 9650? Nay, CR said



and gave it a Recommended rating.

The double-standard here is astounding.

Save your time: they are going to ignore it ;)

[AidenShaw]

I think he regrets that decision, now. But that doesn't mean the design is flawed ...

I'm sorry?

Regretting a design decision doesn't mean that it is flawed?

Selling a phone that drops calls if you touch it is not a flawed design?

Wow.

[macsmurf]

Save your time: they are going to ignore it ;)

Please. The guy is suggesting that you ought to be able to fix the problem all phones have concerning the signal with a piece of tape. I originally assumed he was joking but apparently I thought too much of him.

You can fix the part of the issue with signal degradation that only the iPhone have, with a piece of tape. You cannot fix the issue with signal degradation entirely (tape or otherwise).

The fact that you guys don't (or won't) understand this is astounding to me. I'm continually surprised by this forum. It's actually quite fascinating.

[Max(IT)]

I'm sorry?

Regretting a design decision doesn't mean that it is flawed?

Selling a phone that drops calls if you touch it is not a flawed design?

Wow.

Please. The guy is suggesting that you ought to be able to fix the problem all phones have concerning the signal with a piece of tape. I originally assumed he was joking but apparently I thought too much of him.

You can fix the part of the issue with signal degradation that only the iPhone have, with a piece of tape. You cannot fix the issue with signal degradation entirely (tape or otherwise).

The fact that you guys don't (or won't) understand this is astounding to me. I'm continually surprised by this forum. It's actually quite fascinating.

there is a VIDEO right there, showing a BB dropping the signal.
All of you iphone basher are DELIBERATELY IGNORING all evidences about a behavior shared by most of the phones on the market.

[macsmurf]

there is a VIDEO right there, showing a BB dropping the signal.
All of you iphone basher are DELIBERATELY IGNORING all evidences about a behavior shared by most of the phones on the market.

Not really. I'm concerned with the causes of the behavior and the fact that Apple is pretending that there is nothing special about the "trouble spot" on the iPhone. This is not true. I don't really care about the issue as much as I care about Apple lying.

OK, I think I've had my fill for now.

[bigsexyy81]

Almost 1,000 replies... lol. I'll chime in with my two cents.

1. Ultimately, who gives a s*** what CR says? Only people who dislike Apple or people who are new to the market and don't know what type of phones are out there. And even if Apple didn't sell a single iPhone right off the bat to any of those people, they'd still have plenty of customers to keep them happy.

2. As I'm sure has been said before... don't buy it if you don't want to risk it. Pretty simple. If you bought it and it doesn't work right, return it.

[oliversl]

This time you are lying because Apple said that there is a worse "weak spot" in iPhone 4. Remember that people can not reproduce the problem in areas with strong signal

Not really. I'm concerned with the causes of the behavior and the fact that Apple is pretending that there is nothing special about the "trouble spot" on the iPhone. This is not true. I don't really care about the issue as much as I care about Apple lying.

OK, I think I've had my fill for now.

[gehrbox]

2. As I'm sure has been said before... don't buy it if you don't want to risk it. Pretty simple. If you bought it and it doesn't work right, return it.

Yup and it seems to escape the wisdom of the dissatisfied that have no problem returning a used cooler to Walmart that they bought just for the 4th of July.

[PerfSeeker]

I'm just amazed that Steve Jobs had to trash other companies to justify this blatant design flaw. I thought Apple was "genius" and "it all just works" or "Apple products are insanely great". Yeah right.:rolleyes:

[MorphingDragon]

Let me fix that:



In spite of the current "close to release date" shortages - "antennagate" could easily erode Apple's "cachet" and cripple longer term sales. When the Iphone4 is the topic of standup comedian's acts, that will affect sales. Whining that "you're holding it wrong" is technically a misquote won't improve sales.

Then I wonder, how many people outside of the inner sanctum of the internet actually care about this. Then I also wonder what would cause a shortage of stock?

Th iPhone 4 is a phone that people want. Hype dies down once word gets around that something sucks, the word has gotten around and the iPhone 4 continues to sell. So there's something you're missing/ignoring.

[MorphingDragon]

Selling a phone that drops calls if you touch it is not a flawed design?


It is if your name is Nokia! :D

[LagunaSol]

Please. The guy is suggesting that you ought to be able to fix the problem all phones have concerning the signal with a piece of tape.

Obviously you have no idea what I was "suggesting." Hint: I wasn't "suggesting" anything.

You cannot fix the issue with signal degradation entirely (tape or otherwise).

So please tell us how to fix the signal degradation you get with any number of other smartphones by employing similar grips? Or do you, like the media, only find iPhone signal degradation relevant and worth discussing?

[gehrbox]

I'm just amazed that Steve Jobs had to trash other companies to justify this blatant design flaw. I thought Apple was "genius" and "it all just works" or "Apple products are insanely great". Yeah right.:rolleyes:

If that's what you took from the demonstration then you misunderstood.

The purpose was to show the press that the behavior noted in the iphone4 is also present in many phones.

If anything it showed that it is a limitation brought on by the industry to make nicer looking phones that do not require an extended antenna.

Apples problem is that the iphone4 is more sensitive to the issue. SJ noted that they knew it could happen, but considered it a worthwhile compromise because the design provided better performance in most other situations and modes of operation.

[tt92618]

Apple needs to invite Consumer Reports to the Cupertino campus, and open their testing systems for them. Let them come and prove that the iPhone 4 really is no worse than any other cell phone, or that it is, using proper equipment and procedures.

The charge has been made that the CR tests were flawed, so let them duplicate them properly, and let the chips fall where they may. If CR has any journalistic integrity, they ought to be willing to do so.

[srxtr]

After updating my iPhone to 4.0.1, I never got 5 bars again.

This entire time Apple's been covering up for AT&T's crappy network...

[BobVB]

If CR has any journalistic integrity, they ought to be willing to do so.

Ha! if Apple had any integrity they wouldn't have shown us 'dropping bars' when the problem is dropping calls, they would have shown us the 3GS, and they would have shown us what 1 finger does on the iPhone 4.

Please, CR need prove nothing to Apple - Apple has set the 'honesty' bar so low everyone can step over their standard.

[RVNA]

Statement: I'm left handed, and I really do not like how the bumper looks.

Question: Am I SOL if I want an iPhone 4?

[Black Belt]

Maybe instead of focussing on how much money they can squeeze out of consumer for offering less and less, they should go back to focussing on quality and making the experience overwhelmingly good. Right now Apple is consistently underwhelming.

[AidenShaw]

Question: Am I SOL if I want an iPhone 4?

You'll be fine if you never try to use the phone when you're more than a kilometre from an AT&T Cell tower.


Otherwise, "SOL" is a pretty good description.

[LagunaSol]

Statement: I'm left handed, and I really do not like how the bumper looks.

Question: Am I SOL if I want an iPhone 4?

I'm right handed but I hold the phone in my left. I don't have a bumper or a case. I have no problem with my phone. Just don't bury the corner of the phone in your palm and avoid putting your meatstick on the line that separates the two antenna segments and you'll be fine. It really isn't that hard. I think you'd have to be completely incompetent to not be able to successfully (and comfortably) make a call (or retrieve data) with the iPhone 4.

I'd wager the vast majority of iPhone 4 owners never would have noticed any issues with the device whatsoever if this hadn't been broadcast as a national emergency by every news agency on the planet.

Buy one. Try it for two weeks. If you have a problem, take it back. Let the product speak for itself. Ignore the hysterics on this forum and other sites - much of it likely coming from Apple detractors who don't even own the device.

[RinoaHeartily]

I'm right handed but I hold the phone in my left. I don't have a bumper or a case. I have no problem with my phone. Just don't bury the corner of the phone in your palm and avoid putting your meatstick on the line that separates the two antenna segments and you'll be fine. It really isn't that hard. I think you'd have to be completely incompetent to not be able to successfully (and comfortably) make a call (or retrieve data) with the iPhone 4.

I'd wager the vast majority of iPhone 4 owners never would have noticed any issues with the device whatsoever if this hadn't been broadcast as a national emergency by every news agency on the planet.

Buy one. Try it for two weeks. If you have a problem, take it back. Let the product speak for itself. Ignore the hysterics on this forum and other sites - much of it likely coming from Apple detractors who don't even own the device.

which meatstick u referring to? LOL..

anyway i am right handed too.. hold my phone on the left.. in practical.. if u hold ur phone naturally u can't help but press against the line.. it's natural. If i do take note at the signal indicator it does drop 1 or 2 bars whatever.. however i have never dropped a call before nor got disconnected while downloading on 3G. It's just perception...some people just don't like to see the damn indicator drops 1 or 2 bars.. LOL..

if it wasn't for the big hoo haa generated by people.. i wouldn't even notice the drops in the bar.

So in short.. buy it.. use it without casing.. use it as how you would have done with any phone.. gripping it anyway u like it.. by 30 days if u are not satisfied.. return the damn thing... i am sure like hell holding on to the phone.. it just looks cool to have an iphone....

[charlituna]

AT&T has nothing to do with it or do you want to tell the other countries this too?

There has been a noticeable dearth of complaints outside of the US and even Consumer Reports notes the whole drop in signal is only an issue in areas with weak ATT service.

So the problem might not be ALL ATT but they are a factor in whether it is really a major issue for users or not. those in good and great service areas seem to have no issue with a drop in bars. Those in crappy service, well even at 5 bars their service is probably sucking more often than not