Some feedback on HD5970 in Mac Pro.

[Cocoia]

Hey guys,

I've been following the news closely, and the threads on custom ROMs, reflashing, etc. I think netkas, cindori and the Rominator and others are doing fantastic work.

I've got a 2 x 2.8Ghz Quad Mac Pro 3,1 with a 8800GT, 4 hard drives and dual superdrives. I'm considering upgrading it with a 120 GB SSD and a HD5970. Mostly for gaming under Windows; having it work under OS X is not a priority.

As the current setup with the 8800GT uses one 6-pin PCIe power cable, and a non-OC HD 5970 needs one 6-pin and one 8-pin, I was considering taking the two molex cables from my superdrives (which I don't use) and adapt them (through an adaptor) to an 8-pin to fully power the beast card. The card should take about 3 slots, leaving room for my 8800GT. The PSU should be able to handle the draw from the card. I accept having to switch the monitor on boot / reboot.

You might have been able to guess, but my main question is this: Am I overlooking things? This way, would a HD5970 work in a 3,1?

[Cindori]

yes. you can probably get one core working under osx without 3d accel (QE)

[Cocoia]

yes. you can probably get one core working under osx without 3d accel (QE)

Thanks. That's awesome icing on the cake. Would I be able to get full speed under Windows OK as well?

[Cindori]

ofc

[Cocoia]

A little update: the HD5970 is still in transit, and I've ordered an extra 2x 4-pin molex to 8-pin PCIe power cable and a 6-pin Mac Pro motherboard to PCIe 6-pin power cable (30 euros! Christ). I've seen one Macrumors forum poster with some images of his unit running in his 'Pro, so I'm cautiously optimistic now.

Hopefully all will go well once I've got it installed.

[Cindori]

----

[Sumimasen]

I'd be interested to know how you get on, so keep us posted! :)

I would like to install a 5970 in my Mac Pro 2.1 (3.0, 8 core), but my experience with a 4870 X2 was less than great - windows ran butter smooth for about 15 minutes and then the machine just shut down. I believe Rominator had a similar issue, which if I'm not mistaken, was most likely a lack of power from the MP PSU.

Does anyone know if the 5970 draws more or less power than a 4870 X2? If it's more I guess I'll just have to go for a 5870 instead. Also, does the MP 3.1 have a better PSU than the 2.1?

Thanks

[Cindori]

I'd be interested to know how you get on, so keep us posted! :)

I would like to install a 5970 in my Mac Pro 2.1 (3.0, 8 core), but my experience with a 4970 was less than great - windows ran butter smooth for about 15 minutes and then the machine just shut down. I believe Rominator had a similar issue, which if I'm not mistaken, was most likely a lack of power from the MP PSU.

Does anyone know if the 5970 draws more or less power than a 4970? If it's more I guess I'll just have to go for a 5870 instead. Also, does the MP 3.1 have a better PSU than the 2.1?

Thanks


psu is by far not an issue at all.

[tanderson11]

the 5970 definitely draws more power than a 4xxx series card, same with the 5870, it will draw more power than the 4xxx card as well. and i would actually assume that the power supply may be causing the problem. i know pc's throw in crappy power supplies, and that is a definite main component of a computer and if you go cheap on a power supply that is not a good thing. so id check out what power supply you have, and possibley upgrade that.

[Cocoia]

I'd be interested to know how you get on, so keep us posted! :)

I would like to install a 5970 in my Mac Pro 2.1 (3.0, 8 core), but my experience with a 4970 was less than great - windows ran butter smooth for about 15 minutes and then the machine just shut down. I believe Rominator had a similar issue, which if I'm not mistaken, was most likely a lack of power from the MP PSU.

Does anyone know if the 5970 draws more or less power than a 4970? If it's more I guess I'll just have to go for a 5870 instead. Also, does the MP 3.1 have a better PSU than the 2.1?

Thanks

I'm quite sure a 5970 draws more, as it carries two GPUs on one PCB. Perhaps the issue was how it was powered -- what kind of cables were used?

Here's (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=823190&page=4&highlight=8pin) the post with the guy running a HD5970 in his (I think) 3,1 unit, by the way. He opted to power it with a 6-pin to 8-pin cable.

[Sumimasen]

The 4870 X2 was also a dual GPU board (2 x 4870 chips in CF I believe). I have been running an XFX 4870 since with no problems.

I would be very interested to know if you get it running ok (I don't doubt that you will).

Does anyone know if there are any differences between the 2.1 and 3.1 PSU's?

I have an 8pin to 6pin adaptor that I have been hanging on to in case I ever upgrade. ;)

EDIT: When I mentioned the 4970, I meant the 4870 X2. Posts fixed. D'oh!

[Cocoia]

The 4870 X2 was also a dual GPU board (2 x 4870 chips in CF I believe). I have been running an XFX 4870 since with no problems.

I would be very interested to know if you get it running ok (I don't doubt that you will).


What model Mac Pro do you have? How do you power it? 2x6-pin?

[macest]

I would like to install a 5970 in my Mac Pro 2.1 (3.0, 8 core), but my experience with a 4870 X2 was less than great - windows ran butter smooth for about 15 minutes and then the machine just shut down. I believe Rominator had a similar issue, which if I'm not mistaken, was most likely a lack of power from the MP PSU.
Thanks

The shutdown is causing by overloading the 12v rails, I encountered it myself. I had my 4870x2 working by getting power from both the motherboard connector and the optical bay molex connectors.

[The Rominator]

I would like to install a 5970 in my Mac Pro 2.1 (3.0, 8 core), but my experience with a 4870 X2 was less than great - windows ran butter smooth for about 15 minutes and then the machine just shut down. I believe Rominator had a similar issue, which if I'm not mistaken, was most likely a lack of power from the MP PSU.


Thanks

Nothing makes an explosion in Crysis seem quite as real as when the computer makes a loud "CLICK" and completely shuts off at moment of impact. I tried splitting power off Molex and variety of things. In retrospect, I think main issue was the LENGTH of the splitter cables used to make 6 pin into 8 pin.

I am custom making a Mac Pro 8 pin cable, pix soon.

The shutoffs frightened me, I was convinced that either a PCB trace or PSU was going to join the tanker truck in Crysis, so I sold the 4870X2. But keeping the power leads as short as possible and using the fattest wire possible would be good ways to get most power into card, rather then heating the cables up.

[jav6454]

Nothing makes an explosion in Crysis seem quite as real as when the computer makes a loud "CLICK" and completely shuts off at moment of impact. I tried splitting power off Molex and variety of things. In retrospect, I think main issue was the LENGTH of the splitter cables used to make 6 pin into 8 pin.

I am custom making a Mac Pro 8 pin cable, pix soon.

The shutoffs frightened me, I was convinced that either a PCB trace or PSU was going to join the tanker truck in Crysis, so I sold the 4870X2. But keeping the power leads as short as possible and using the fattest wire possible would be good ways to get most power into card, rather then heating the cables up.

PSUs make nice fireworks, and have a habbit of taking many other system components with them.

Which is why I don't recommend nVidia cards, and do NOT recommend the HD5970 (or even the HD5830). HD5970 is not what it is supposed to be. As per nVidia and their GF100 based Fermis, it's not because it's nVidia, it's because of the HIGH POWER DRAW. Simple.

[Sumimasen]

What model Mac Pro do you have? How do you power it? 2x6-pin?

It is a 2007 Mac Pro 2.1 (3.0ghz 8 core 'Clovertown'). The 4870 is powered by 2 x 6 pin cables to the mother board. I bought 2 custom made cables off eBay which are thicker than normal.

[Cocoia]

Well, that was super interesting. The HD5970 came with a 2 x 4-pin molex to 8-pin (yay) and I decided to test it in Windows by taking the 6-pin power off my 8800GT and onto the behemoth. Which, by the way, just about fits into the chassis.

http://www.cocoia.com/IMG_0355sm.jpg

With power not yet attached. The midget card below it is the 8800GT.

In the end I removed the hard drives, CPU heatsink cover and front fan assembly to reroute the optical drive power cables to the midsection -- with the cable running across the top, the case wouldn't shut. There's instructions on doing this in the service manual, which I won't repost here for legal reasons. Easy enough, though.

Under Windows, the Just Cause 2 benchmarks at 2560x1600, max settings, including AA, where my old card struggled to maintain 16 frames per second, I currently push 50-60. Bad Company 2 is now very playable at 2560x1600 (I had to run it at 1680 before) and Crysis... ah, Crysis. With everything maxed at 2560x1600 (and the real-lifesis mod) it's -barely- playable ;). The card clocks up to full speed, is quite power efficient (45 watt-ish at idle) and runs at 60-65° C after an hour of intensive graphics work. Also super silent! Much more silent than the 8800GT, almost inaudible and a fair bit cooler.

I don't have my second (super-expensive, Apple-proprietary) 6-pin cable yet so I cannot attest as to how well (or not) it runs with both cards in the Mac Pro. So far it seems the 8800GT doesn't boot with no extra power and if I take a bit of power (a 6-pin) from the HD5970, it revs up its fans to maximum and won't stop. So I've removed it for now. I'll pick up a brand new 6-pin tomorrow and report on how it works.

[Sumimasen]

Very interesting. If it all runs ok after you manage to test it fully, would you fancy doing a guide on what cables were required etc. I am seriously tempted to get one for my MP, and install my old 2600 in a spare slot.

The only thing I'm not really clear on is feeding power from the optical bay using a molex - never looked in the lower drive bay, so don't really know what goes where and how. ;)

Keep us updated! :)

[jhero]

With the new MP's out, hopefully they price the 5770 at a good price so I can finally replace this 8800gt

[Cocoia]

I'll do a full rundown on it soon and update the main post -- as soon as I get the extra cable. :)

[Cocoia]

Hmpf, it's been an interesting 24 hours.

I picked up the extra cable and connected the 8800GT. No issues booting OS X with both cards in it and fully powered -- other that I can't get the display drivers by netkas working yet (not initialized) for the Radeon -- and the EFI. Windows, however...

Windows doesn't like two brands of cards in one computer so I had to remove the nvidia drivers. Still, with the card powered I suspect the EFI tries to hand over display output to the geforce and the ATI gets no signal to the screen. My current solution is to remove the PCI power cable from the geforce, which prevents it from operating, before booting into Windows. The HD5970 then works.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/4839890507_7d6025eae5_z.jpg

(on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocoia/4839890507/))

The card performs amazingly well, that's no news, but in Battlefield: Bad Company 2 and only Bad Company 2 the system freezes / bluescreens. The on-motherboard diagnostic LEDs ERRA and ERRB are on when the system is frozen until a forced reboot. I've tried reinstalling the game, the drivers, removing the other card, etc. To no avail. I even ran linpack and furmark at the same time for a considerable amount of time to demand a lot of power from my system and see if I was simply stressing a rail or the PSU too much. Nope.

I might do a memtest for an hour or eight but I doubt it's the FB-DIMMs. Perhaps installing 10.7 drivers could help but I'm rather afraid I've run into an issue with BC2 only, as the problem doesn't appear elsewhere.

But yeah,the rest works great. If I want to boot into OS X I currently use the 8800GT. Are there guides for using ATY_Init and the latest netkas drivers on a 'genuine' Mac? I feel like I'm having some issues with the non-EFI compatibility of my card...

[Sumimasen]

Hmmm. Sounds different from the issue I was getting with the 4870 X2. When I ran Gears of War, everything was lovely and super smooth for about 15 minutes, and then the system just shut down, as if I'd held the power button for a force shutdown.

I could restart straight away, but didn't run GOW again, just in case I was stressing something out and causing damage.

I'm not sure if the MP 3.1 layout is the same as the 2.1 that I own, but isn't the first PCI slot the best for using a card like this? Maybe try running in windows with only the 5970 in slot 1, and leave the 8800GT out altogether? I know in my MP, the first slot is the fastest, but not being familiar with the 3.1 specs, this may not the the case for yours. Could be worth a try anyway though?

[Cocoia]

I'm not sure if the MP 3.1 layout is the same as the 2.1 that I own, but isn't the first PCI slot the best for using a card like this? Maybe try running in windows with only the 5970 in slot 1, and leave the 8800GT out altogether? I know in my MP, the first slot is the fastest, but not being familiar with the 3.1 specs, this may not the the case for yours. Could be worth a try anyway though?

Basically, slot 1 (bottom) is a double-wide PCIe 16x slot, as is slot 2. I currently have it in slot 2 and the 8800GT in slot 1. This purely because the bottom of the HD5970 can get hot and I prefer to keep the hot part away from the memory cage, which 1 is next to.

I've tried putting it in slot 1, with the 8800GT in slot 3, or without the 8800GT -- all possible combinations, really. No effect, the same problem in only one game persists. Hence I'm thinking it really is just the game. With the very intense stress tests I did it is impossible that BFBC2 is causing something to run warmer / drain more power or somesuch.

Feh!

[Fuzzb]

Howdy, I just thought I'd chime in with my experiences of running a 5970 in my 2009 Mac Pro. At the moment I'm running the 5970 alongside the stock Nvidia GT120, and both cards work perfectly under Windows 7. I have my iMac 27" connected to the 5970 under target mode and the GT120 is powering my 24" ACD. Under OSX the GT120 works fine, and the 5970 remains inactive. I've run a few intensive games at 2560x1440 and haven't experienced any crashes or lock-ups so far.

I haven't tried the netkas kext yet, so I don't know if the 5970 works under OSX. I'm just waiting for someone to confirm the method works in something other than a hackintosh!

[Cocoia]

After an hour or 20 of searching, I have found the interaction of the Mac Pro's Realtek on-board audio chipset and Bad Company 2 cause the freezes and BSODs. No issues with having two cards in there or with the HD5970. Phew!

[cured.not.dried]

if you check out the amd game forums a lot of other people have troubles with 10.6 drivers and 5970.

have you tried updating your realtek drivers?
i believe the latest version is 2.50. maybe that could help.

another thing would be to entirely remove your 8800 before booting into windoze. windoze is reaaally bad at ignoring hardware even if you uninstall drivers and tell it to disable the device.

[Sumimasen]

I have just done a spot of research into the power consumption of this card compared to the 4870X2 that I had before.

It appears that the 5970 draws a lot less than the 4870x2 idling and under load.

4870X2 222w / 479w

5970 185w / 393w

That is pretty good news, and means that I won't have the same overload issues I had before. If we end up being able to run this monster in OSX too, then I will be sold! :)

[iWolf00]

I want to install the HD5970 on my MP 4.1. I'd like to know what do I need? There are too many types of HD5970; which type that fits in MP? how do I connect HD 5970 to my MP? I will use it for Win7 only. I am not technical person, but I can get job done if you could explain to me what should I do.

Last; do you recommend HD5970 or Should I (spend more) buy apple HD5870?


Many thanks.

[jav6454]

I want to install the HD5970 on my MP 4.1. I'd like to know what do I need? There are too many types of HD5970; which type that fits in MP? how do I connect HD 5970 to my MP? I will use it for Win7 only. I am not technical person, but I can get job done if you could explain to me what should I do.

Last; do you recommend HD5970 or Should I (spend more) buy apple HD5870?


Many thanks.

If you don't know where to connect or how to install a Video card, then that is a clear sign you shouldn't be doing it on the advice of strangers.

Now, I know that maybe harsh, but here is a truth, your Mac Pro is worth loads of money to be fidling with and break something. So here is my answer: read about PCIe auxilary power, the HD 5970 requires a 6-pin and 8-pin power connectors and also the HD 5970 requires an open PCIe x16 slot. Optimally this slot should run at x16 speed. Bear in mind an HD 5970 is double sloted card, so it will take up 2 spaces.

Before you do anything, be sure to read more about some of this things to avoid a mishap.

[iWolf00]

If you don't know where to connect or how to install a Video card, then that is a clear sign you shouldn't be doing it on the advice of strangers.

Now, I know that maybe harsh, but here is a truth, your Mac Pro is worth loads of money to be fidling with and break something. So here is my answer: read about PCIe auxilary power, the HD 5970 requires a 6-pin and 8-pin power connectors and also the HD 5970 requires an open PCIe x16 slot. Optimally this slot should run at x16 speed. Bear in mind an HD 5970 is double sloted card, so it will take up 2 spaces.

Before you do anything, be sure to read more about some of this things to avoid a mishap.

I spent a lot on my MP and I am not going to damage it for sake of gaming. I may able to lay wires to feed HD5970; but I don't know why & how. Thanks for waking me up pal, I will read about PCIe auxiliary power and figure if I can do it or not. I won't rush to buy HD5970 because I will not upgrade my GPU before end of September.

[Cocoia]

I spent a lot on my MP and I am not going to damage it for sake of gaming. I may able to lay wires to feed HD5970; but I don't know why & how. Thanks for waking me up pal, I will read about PCIe auxiliary power and figure if I can do it or not. I won't rush to buy HD5970 because I will not upgrade my GPU before end of September.

Not to mention the 6000 series should also be announced quite soon. If you don't feel like tinkering a lot and have some time before you have to decide, I'd wait it out a bit :).

[iWolf00]

Not to mention the 6000 series should also be announced quite soon. If you don't feel like tinkering a lot and have some time before you have to decide, I'd wait it out a bit :).

The 6 series will have more powerful than HD 5870. Although 5870 is a powerful card, but it was released a year back. I am not sure how long should we wait to see the new GPU (officially) in MP.

But we have to believe in Apple, especially when they release one year old card that it is about to get updated; as new and powerful GPU for its Professional market!!

Cheers!!

[jav6454]

Not to mention the 6000 series should also be announced quite soon. If you don't feel like tinkering a lot and have some time before you have to decide, I'd wait it out a bit :).

Although we would all want the 6000 series to come out, I don't see that happenning this year. Not afte TSMC is still having problems with the 40nm process. According to AMD's roadmaps, the 6000 series carry the flag name Northern Islands and are supposedly to be made at 32/28nm.

[iWolf00]

Although we would all want the 6000 series to come out, I don't see that happenning this year

I totally agree with you; in addition we may not see it until 7xxx series is on the way to the market! Apple is one year behind in GPU and I think that one year gab in technology is major deficiency for any company want to compete in computing system.

Not afte TSMC is still having problems with the 40nm process. According to AMD's roadmaps, the 6000 series carry the flag name Northern Islands and are supposedly to be made at 32/28nm.

in reference to what you've said; I assume the 6xxx would be far better than 5xxx and that is going to worth a lot for me especially if speed gain are more than 30%. But will 6 series be easily installed in MP 4.1???

[Sumimasen]

Of course, the bright side of a possible 6000 series launch is that the prices of the 5000's will start tumbling. The 5970 is far too expensive in the uk currently. Any drop in price would be very welcome! :)

[jav6454]

Of course, the bright side of a possible 6000 series launch is that the prices of the 5000's will start tumbling. The 5970 is far too expensive in the uk currently. Any drop in price would be very welcome! :)

The it would make no sense to buy a 5000 series when the 6000 series is out.

As per iWolf00 I have no idea if they'll work with the Mac Pro4,1

[iWolf00]

As per iWolf00 I have no idea if they'll work with the Mac Pro4,1

Thanks for reply; I will wait and see how it will fit on MP.

[decypher]

Thanks for reply; I will wait and see how it will fit on MP.


So good to see that the 5970 works in the mp under windows. Anyone here try the 5970 with the flashed rom under snow leopard with games like sc2?
I really really want to upgrade by 2008-09 Mac pro with a worthwhile card.

[Cocoia]

So good to see that the 5970 works in the mp under windows. Anyone here try the 5970 with the flashed rom under snow leopard with games like sc2?
I really really want to upgrade by 2008-09 Mac pro with a worthwhile card.

You can't flash the HD5970 as far as I know.