GTX285 or HD4870

[harleymhs]

Hey Guys, I have a 2008 MP 8 core and I want to get a new video card, I have a 8800 in it now, and I need a more powerful card for Win 7 for Flight Simulator. I have 12 GB of ram in the system and I am going to add a 256 SSD for Win 7 and use a WD raptor drive for the Flight Sim. Which is the BETTER video card for the windows side ( dont care about it in OSX ) The GtX285 has 1 GB ram on board and the ATI only has 512mb.. ( like the 8800 ) Any help would be helpful! Thanks in advance.. I dont want to get the GTX 400 series and make it work I rather go with the 4870 or GTX285.. Thanks!!!

[jav6454]

Don't get either right now. Get a GTX460 (it's better than GF100 based fermis) or a HD 5850. Drivers (labeit they're hacked) are out for both cards.

[Cindori]

Don't get either right now. Get a GTX460 (it's better than GF100 based fermis) or a HD 5850. Drivers (labeit they're hacked) are out for both cards.

although non functional so far

[Hellhammer]

Don't get either right now. Get a GTX460 (it's better than GF100 based fermis) or a HD 5850. Drivers (labeit they're hacked) are out for both cards.

I second this, GTX 460 is brilliant card, only Fermi worth buying. If you're going to use it in Windows, you can get any card, just keep the 8800 in there for OS X. There is no reason to get Apple card if it will only be used in Windows

[jav6454]

although non functional so far

I have it on good authority you the man here for drivers and such. ;) So I wouldn't doubt the drivers would start to work sometime soon.

[Pressure]

Considering you use it for Flight Simulator you should really get the card that offers the best Double Precision performance.

Currently that is the Geforce GTX 480.

[jav6454]

Considering you use it for Flight Simulator you should really get the card that offers the best Double Precision performance.

Currently that is the Geforce GTX 480.

No, bad card, not worth the cash and certainly not worth the horrendous power draws + heat production. Like I said GTX 460 is where it is at.

[Pressure]

No, bad card, not worth the cash and certainly not worth the horrendous power draws + heat production. Like I said GTX 460 is where it is at.

It doesn't matter. The Geforce GTX 480 is still the fastest Double Precision performance card, which is VERY important with flight simulators.

Flight simulators need double precision because the size of the earth is so large that single precision is only accurate down to around +/- 1 meter at one earth radius from the origin.
Which would be enough for mountains and other terrain but simulating an airstrip in any country where the runway is nearly but not quite level is not going to cut it with single precision. A small bump of 3 cm is quite noticeable when you are rolling on the runway at over 160 KM/H during landing and takeoff.

[Hellhammer]

It doesn't matter. The Geforce GTX 480 is still the fastest Double Precision performance card, which is VERY important with flight simulators.

Flight simulators need double precision because the size of the earth is so large that single precision is only accurate down to around +/- 1 meter at one earth radius from the origin.
Which would be enough for mountains and other terrain but simulating an airstrip in any country where the runway is nearly but not quite level is not going to cut it with single precision. A small bump of 3 cm is quite noticeable when you are rolling on the runway at over 160 KM/H during landing and takeoff.

Dual GTX 460s in SLI will run circles around GTX 480 and will still be over 100$ cheaper. May not be that easy to get it work but it should be possible to get SLI in Mac Pro.

[harleymhs]

OK, THANKS!! I knew the GT480 is the BEST! But I thought that I could ONLY use a MAC graphics card!! So I can use 2 cards in the machine? Use the 8800 GT for the Mac and BUY any GTX480 for the windows side? How does MAC know what card to use and the same with windows? Do I need to tell them which to use or the 2 OS's will find the correct ones on their own? YOU guys ROCK! No I can order a GTX480 which I knew was the BEST for Flight Simulator! I just thought I had NO other choice cause of OSX! Any brand better than another in the GTX480???? THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!

[Hellhammer]

OK, THANKS!! I knew the GT480 is the BEST! But I thought that I could ONLY use a MAC graphics card!! So I can use 2 cards in the machine? Use the 8800 GT for the Mac and BUY any GTX480 for the windows side? How does MAC know what card to use and the same with windows? Do I need to tell them which to use or the 2 OS's will find the correct ones on their own? YOU guys ROCK! No I can order a GTX480 which I knew was the BEST for Flight Simulator! I just thought I had NO other choice cause of OSX! Any brand better than another in the GTX480???? THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!

All models should work but I prefer EVGA, they only do high-end stuff and are good at it.

[harleymhs]

This is stupid but Will they both fit in the MP ( 8800 and the GTX480 ) Will Ineed anymore power cored for the motherboard or power supply? I know the GTX285 needs 2 power cords! Will the GTX480 need 2 as well? and the 8800 thats in there has one power cord! Now I would need 3 power cords! Do I need to order more power cored or will the GTX480 come for with what I need? Being the 480 is made for PC.s will I have an issue with the power cords? HELP FAST! LOL I need to order the card overnight from amazon! LOL
Looks like the EVGA GTX 480 is the better one am I correct?

[Hellhammer]

This is stupid but Will they both fit in the MP ( 8800 and the GTX480 ) Will Ineed anymore power cored for the motherboard or power supply? I know the GTX285 needs 2 power cords! Will the GTX480 need 2 as well? and the 8800 thats in there has one power cord! Now I would need 3 power cords! Do I need to order more power cored or will the GTX480 come for with what I need? Being the 480 is made for PC.s will I have an issue with the power cords? HELP FAST! LOL I need to order the card overnight from amazon! LOL
Looks like the EVGA GTX 480 is the better one am I correct?

You need two of these (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Pro-PCIe-PCI-Express-6-Pin-Video-Card-Power-Cable-/280448305136?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item414c0587f0#ht_1330wt_744) AFAIK. As I said, I prefer EVGA so IMO EVGA is the best

[Pressure]

Dual GTX 460s in SLI will run circles around GTX 480 and will still be over 100$ cheaper. May not be that easy to get it work but it should be possible to get SLI in Mac Pro.

Perhaps in normal games. The Geforce GTX 460 doesn't even average 30FPS in Flight Simulator (1920 x 1080 with 4xAA). Two in SLI won't do any better because Flight Simulator does not take advantage of the extra GPU.

So no, they do not run circles around the Geforce GTX 480.

[Hellhammer]

Perhaps in normal games. The Geforce GTX 460 doesn't even average 30FPS in Flight Simulator (1920 x 1080 with 4xAA). Two in SLI won't do any better because Flight Simulator does not take advantage of the extra GPU.

So no, they do not run circles around the Geforce GTX 480.

My mistake then. I thought Flight Simulator is just one game among others and not a special occasion :o Then the GTX 480 is worth it even though it usually is not

[The Rominator]

Dual GTX 460s in SLI will run circles around GTX 480 and will still be over 100$ cheaper. May not be that easy to get it work but it should be possible to get SLI in Mac Pro.

AFAIK, SLi has been disabled by Nvidia and has not worked on a Mac Pro since 2006 with G70 cards. If you have some special knowledge about this, please share.

[Hellhammer]

AFAIK, SLi has been disabled by Nvidia and has not worked on a Mac Pro since 2006 with G70 cards. If you have some special knowledge about this, please share.

I wish I did. I just quickly googled that and it showed it can be done with 2006 MP at least. AFAIK, the current ones would work if hacked drivers existed. Anyway, the GTX 460 is no deal for OP according to Pressure so GTX 480 is his best option (two of those in SLI would probs melt Mac Pro :D). NVidia and their bloody limitations, grrr! CrossFire works under Windows, right?

[The Rominator]

Can I suggest that before we go handing out potentially expensive purchase advice that we either :

1. Know what we are talking about

or

2. "quickly google" something that is well known to NOT WORK

While feeling and sounding authoritative is lovely, giving out BAD advice is worse than giving out no advice.

The reason I never give out advice on RAIDs is that I DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT THEM and prefer to let actual knowledgeable people give useful advice.

[Pressure]

NVidia and their bloody limitations, grrr! CrossFire works under Windows, right?

Yeah, CrossFire works just fine in Windows.

[Hellhammer]

Can I suggest that before we go handing out potentially expensive purchase advice that we either :

1. Know what we are talking about

or

2. "quickly google" something that is well known to NOT WORK

While feeling and sounding authoritative is lovely, giving out BAD advice is worse than giving out no advice.

The reason I never give out advice on RAIDs is that I DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT THEM and prefer to let actual knowledgeable people give useful advice.

I never said it WILL work. I said it may not be that easy to get it work and it turned out to be harder than I thought. It's not impossible, someone would just have to hack the drivers. You corrected me, so what's the point? You have never made a mistake in your life? It didn't change anything, OP is still getting GTX 480 anyway

[Cindori]

The SLI of Mac Pro was made on a 2006 model with two 7600GS cards, if I am not mistaken. The windows driver was hacked to allow custom motherboards.

No one has been able to hack nvidia's drivers since the 7000 series cards.

[The Rominator]

It's not impossible, someone would just have to hack the drivers.

Unless that someone is going to be you, how could you possibly know this?

Further reading will show that THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE. To further sales of their own components Nvidia has written out SLI support for anything but their chipsets. It is a huge issue in Windows world that nobody has found a fix for. Enthusiasm and energy don't solve such things. Knowledge does. I can tell you don't have any.

If you don't know what you are talking about, then S T F U ! The guy was about to click on a "Buy Now" link somewhere, based on your advice he would have gotten a useless setup. Walk away.

[Hellhammer]

The guy was about to click on a "Buy Now" link somewhere.

Where? He replied at the same time as I did. There was no harm done so why the anger? If he had bought two of those, then I would understand your anger but he didn't. It was my mistake, I should have read more about it before posting, sorry :o Can we now move on?

[harleymhs]

Hey guys, no fighting!! Can we PLEASE get back to the topic that I started?
I think the idea for 2 VIDEO cards is the BEST for me! I ordered the GTX480 EVGA.. Now my question is whats the BEST way to switch the monitors back and fourth with out pulling the plug on the video cards every time I want to go back to MAC OSX? Thanks GUYS!

[Hellhammer]

Hey guys, no fighting!! Can we PLEASE get back to the topic that I started?
I think the idea for 2 VIDEO cards is the BEST for me! I ordered the GTX480 EVGA.. Now my question is whats the BEST way to switch the monitors back and fourth with out pulling the plug on the video cards every time I want to go back to MAC OSX? Thanks GUYS!

Do you mean 8800 + 480 or 2x480? The first one is possible and what you should do but you can't have dual GTX 480 cards in SLI (sorry if I confused you before). Something like this (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011004&p_id=4069&seq=1&format=2) should work AFAIK

EDIT: This (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011001&p_id=2786&seq=1&format=2) seems to be better because it supports higher resolution

[The Rominator]

With the tiniest bit of trouble, you can have the GTX480 working in OSX. It isn't running at full speed yet, but it is running and will reduce amount of cable fiddling.

In Windows the 8800GT can be assigned to be Physx card. In OSX it will be one to allow GTX480 to work.

Nice and neat, you just need to figure out how to power it all.

[jav6454]

With the tiniest bit of trouble, you can have the GTX480 working in OSX. It isn't running at full speed yet, but it is running and will reduce amount of cable fiddling.

In Windows the 8800GT can be assigned to be Physx card. In OSX it will be one to allow GTX480 to work.

Nice and neat, you just need to figure out how to power it all.

A nuclear reactor does the trick. Seriously? Was there need to go tough on Hellhammer? no.

[Hellhammer]

With the tiniest bit of trouble, you can have the GTX480 working in OSX. It isn't running at full speed yet, but it is running and will reduce amount of cable fiddling.

In Windows the 8800GT can be assigned to be Physx card. In OSX it will be one to allow GTX480 to work.

Nice and neat, you just need to figure out how to power it all.

Good point. I guess you can advice him how to get it work as you originally got it to work :)

BTW, how many PCIe power ports does the Mac Pro have? Both GPUs needs two so I assume it has four? The PSU is 1000W AFAIK so it shouldn't have issues running dual GPUs though

[harleymhs]

Im looking to install the GTX480 for win 7 and keep the 8800 gt in there for MAC OSX... I will buy a DVI Belkin Switch so I can switch between the 2 cards from OSX to Win 7 .. do I need any other power cored from the motherboard or power supply to run the 2 graphi cards.. ?? Thanks!

[Hellhammer]

Im looking to install the GTX480 for win 7 and keep the 8800 gt in there for MAC OSX... I will buy a DVI Belkin Switch so I can switch between the 2 cards from OSX to Win 7 .. do I need any other power cored from the motherboard or power supply to run the 2 graphi cards.. ?? Thanks!

You need two of these (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Pro-PCIe-PCI-Express-6-Pin-Video-Card-Power-Cable-/280448305136?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item414c0587f0#ht_1330wt_744) I think. However, the GTX 480 has 6-pin AND 8-pin connector so I'm not 100% sure do you need an adapter.

In addition, as The Rominator said, you can get GTX 480 to work under OS X with minor changes so maybe it's better for you? Would save the cable hassle. I'm sure he can advice you more than I can because he actually owns a Mac Pro and was able to get GTX 480 work under OS X

[carshooter]

Hi Rominator, would you mind shooting me a pm or an e-mail? Question for you - thanks!

[Pressure]

Hey guys, no fighting!! Can we PLEASE get back to the topic that I started?
I think the idea for 2 VIDEO cards is the BEST for me! I ordered the GTX480 EVGA.. Now my question is whats the BEST way to switch the monitors back and fourth with out pulling the plug on the video cards every time I want to go back to MAC OSX? Thanks GUYS!

Do your monitor happen to have more inputs? Like DVI and HDMI?

Then you could hook it up like that and just switch input from the monitor.

[harleymhs]

I did more research... If I wanted to use the 8800 and the 480 together I would need to find 2 6-pin Power Cables (w/mac pro motherboard connectors)
to connect the 480 to the mac pro motherboard! The cables in the 480 wont fit on the mac pro motherboard! Does anyone think the NEW MAC PROs will have 480 nvidia option? Maybe it just pays to wait to see if evga comes out with a MAC version of the 480!

[Hellhammer]

I did more research... If I wanted to use the 8800 and the 480 together I would need to find 2 6-pin Power Cables (w/mac pro motherboard connectors)
to connect the 480 to the mac pro motherboard! The cables in the 480 wont fit on the mac pro motherboard! Does anyone think the NEW MAC PROs will have 480 nvidia option? Maybe it just pays to wait to see if evga comes out with a MAC version of the 480!

See my post above, there are connectors you need. The Mac version will likely cost more and may have less VRAM than its PC brothers.

[Roman23]

Is a technology thats on the motherboard.. the mac pro logic board does NOT support this and never will at least thus far.. you are only able to crossfire and thats only done on the windows side. OS X won't support either technology.


Dual GTX 460s in SLI will run circles around GTX 480 and will still be over 100$ cheaper. May not be that easy to get it work but it should be possible to get SLI in Mac Pro.

[Pressure]

Is a technology thats on the motherboard.. the mac pro logic board does NOT support this and never will at least thus far.. you are only able to crossfire and thats only done on the windows side. OS X won't support either technology.

It's actually only an limitation in the Windows drivers but we have already covered this :)

[harleymhs]

Thanks FOR ALLLLLLLL of your help !!! I dont have the Mac Pro near me it is in another home, I see the Mac Adaptors on ebay you guys pointed me too! That helps! But I dont know HOW MANY plugs are on the Logic board! I would NEED 3 total! One for the 8800 and 2 for the 480! So Im not really sure how many plugs are on the board! I think at this time it is BEST for me to go with the GTX285 Mac Version, neater inside and out, no extra cables or switches on the outside! Flight Sim is a 32 bit game and a friend has an alienware area 51 with GTX480 and his frame rates are only slightly higher with his 480 than with my ATI 5770 So I will assume the Frame Rates will be as good with the 1 GB GTX285 as with my other ATI 5770 ( also has 1 GB ) in my dell! I will try it tonight with the Mac Version of the 285 and report back to you guys! If I get decent FPS with the 285 Ill be happy PLUS it has all the cables I need and I still can use the OSX with the 285! THANKS AGAIN! You guys rock!

[gpzjock]

Mac Pro 2008 boards only have 2 power sockets for PCI-E cards, the rest of the power comes from the rail itself. The PSU is only rated to supply 400w to the PCI-E sockets so you are a socket short and will definately be unable to run both cards simultaneously (not that you said you intended to ofc.). Just a GTX480 on it's own draws 450w peak: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585-15.html
Some serious modders have put extra plugs and an additional PSU in the spare optical drive bay above the hard drive hangers but this is commonly known as a 'lash up'.
Hope this info helps your choices. Personally I would go down the 1 GTX 285 card fits both route and put up with the loss of frames.

[Hellhammer]

Mac Pro 2008 boards only have 2 power sockets for PCI-E cards, the rest of the power comes from the rail itself. The PSU is only rated to supply 400w to the PCI-E sockets so you are a socket short and will definately be unable to run both cards simultaneously (not that you said you intended to ofc.). Just a GTX480 on it's own draws 450w peak: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585-15.html
Some serious modders have put extra plugs and an additional PSU in the spare optical drive bay above the hard drive hangers but this is commonly known as a 'lash up'.
Hope this info helps your choices.

That's total system power consumption, not GTX 480's, see this (http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/nvidia-s-geforce-gtx-480-and-gtx-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/19) article (power consumption is usually measured from whole system as it's fairly hard to measure the consumption of single component). GTX 480 has TDP of 250W so those numbers are reasonable as total system consumption. GTX 285 uses ~100W less though

I'm not 100% sure but you could use splitters, maybe someone can confirm that

[gpzjock]

Good point, you are quite correct, I missed the words Total System Consumption, :p but the lack of connectors is still an issue. The total consumption for an original Mac Pro 2008 system with 2600XT card is only 318w. Your table shows the PC rig running a 8800GT at 248w, GTX285 at 360w and a GTX480 at 421w.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2836?viewlocale=en_US and
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/HD_2600_XT/17.html shows the 8800GT drawing 136w itself (87w more than the base card's 49w claimed for the 2600XT) so the adjusted Mac Pro consumption would be: 8800GT 405w, GTX285 517w and GTX480 578w.
All well within the 900w the Mac Pro's PSU can supply to the whole system. Subtracting the base system consumption (269w) from the 480 leaves it consuming 309w by itself, so my original statement that you couldn't run both cards at the same time still stands assuming the 400w limit to the PCI-E slots is correct. The GTX480 takes up 2 slots in width too I believe so it stops the 8800GT getting a x16 slot as well unless you park the 8800GT in slot 1 and cover it's fan with the 480's butt. :)

[Hellhammer]

Good point, you are quite correct, I missed the words Total System Consumption, :p but the lack of connectors is still an issue. The total consumption for an original Mac Pro 2008 system with 2600XT card is only 318w. Your table shows the PC rig running a 8800GT at 248w, GTX285 at 360w and a GTX480 at 421w.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2836?viewlocale=en_US and
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/HD_2600_XT/17.html shows the 8800GT drawing 136w itself (87w more than the base card's 49w claimed for the 2600XT) so the adjusted Mac Pro consumption would be: 8800GT 405w, GTX285 517w and GTX480 578w.
All well within the 900w the Mac Pro's PSU can supply to the whole system. Subtracting the base system consumption (269w) from the 480 leaves it consuming 309w by itself, so my original statement that you couldn't run both cards at the same time still stands assuming the 400w limit to the PCI-E slots is correct. The GTX480 takes up 2 slots in width too I believe so it stops the 8800GT getting a x16 slot as well unless you park the 8800GT in slot 1 and cover it's fan with the 480's butt. :)

GTX 480 has maximum power usage of 250W according to NVIDIA (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_480_us.html) and 8800 GT has maximum power usage of 105W according to NVIDIA (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_8800_gt_us.html). That's 355W so unless NVIDIA isn't telling the truth, it should work. It sounds about right that GTX 480 draws 136W more power than 8800 GT does. The Rominator has tried this so maybe he can confirm this

[gpzjock]

There are lies, damn lies and power consumption figures. I just noticed I used a 8800GTX for my calcs so I'm about 25w adrift, my bad. :D