Canada to indict Bush for war crimes?

[Mudbug]

just passing along linkage for discussion:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1100517502971&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907626796&DPL=IvsNDS/7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes%20%20http://www.rabble.ca

[Chip NoVaMac]

Beyond Canada's laws, there are many like myself that feel he should be held for war crimes.

I am too young to remember Truman, but I am sure there are some of us given the time might feel that he was a war criminal.

[Hemingray]

Hah! I'd like to see it. Canada couldn't pull it off.

And that's my ever-so-humble opinion. ;)

[Xtremehkr]

Why not, he did go to war over imaginary WMDs.

[Backtothemac]

Yea, that would work. I could see the folks there trying to apprehend the President, and then all of them getting smoked by the Secret Service.

Never will happen, never would happen. The Canadian government doesn't have the ball to try something this stupid.

[Xtremehkr]

It would be more symbolic than anything else. Like a bench warrant or something. If GWB starts drinking again after his term is up and wanders into Canada by mistake they might pick him up on it.

[Backtothemac]

It would be more symbolic than anything else. Like a bench warrant or something. If GWB starts drinking again after his term is up and wanders into Canada by mistake they might pick him up on it.


Now that is funny! :D

[skunk]

Yea, that would work. I could see the folks there trying to apprehend the President, and then all of them getting smoked by the Secret Service.

Never will happen, never would happen. The Canadian government doesn't have the ball to try something this stupid.
So might continues to be right? Doing the right thing is "stupid"? The Law belongs to the victor? Bush is above the law? The US is above the law? Which of the above?

[Backtothemac]

So might continues to be right? Doing the right thing is "stupid"? The Law belongs to the victor? Bush is above the law? The US is above the law? Which of the above?


Um, no to all of the above. You cannot hold the President responsible for isolated events in the field of battle. That is just crazy. To claim that he violated international law by invading Iraq. Nope. Saddam had violated the cease fire of the 1st gulf war, and thus, this could be argued was a reactivation of actions.

Or as it was once said, "the president reserves the right to act unilaterally if need be to defend this country against a tyrant like Sadam Hussain." -- John Kerry.

[Sun Baked]

It would be more symbolic than anything else. Like a bench warrant or something. If GWB starts drinking again after his term is up and wanders into Canada by mistake they might pick him up on it.Everybody says somebody should be prosecuted for war crimes, as they sit back and watch the bodies stack up in the mass graves, because they are unwilling to send their troops into an area and bring them to justice without the UN behind them.

It's sit back and wait for the UN to act, and we all know how quick they are.

Of course detaining the US President for trial would bring about some interesting military action that would probably end up with the US capturing more oil fields :p and leave Cheney in charge. :eek:

It's all probably a rumor made up by Halliburton in their effort to take over North America. :o

[skunk]

Um, no to all of the above. You cannot hold the President responsible for isolated events in the field of battle. That is just crazy. To claim that he violated international law by invading Iraq. Nope. Saddam had violated the cease fire of the 1st gulf war, and thus, this could be argued was a reactivation of actions.

Or as it was once said, "the president reserves the right to act unilaterally if need be to defend this country against a tyrant like Sadam Hussain." -- John Kerry.
I'm not. I'm holding him responsible for falsifying the evidence in order to try to justify an aggressive war which has cost upwards of 100,000 lives, for failing to protect the civilian population, for failing to protect Iraq's cultural heritage, for allowing and condoning serial breaches of the Geneva Convention. A "reactivation of actions"? What kind of crap is that? Does that excuse flattening cities, murdering civilians and shutting down water supplies? This is some rebuilding effort.

[mactastic]

Wasn't Hitler going to be tried for a 'reactivation of actions' left over from WWI if he hadn't offed himself? ;)

[IJ Reilly]

Okay trivia fans, Michael Moore has made only one fiction feature film (no wisecracks, you know what I mean). What is the name, and the plot?

(I promise, this is relevant to the thread.)

[Sun Baked]

Okay trivia fans, Michael Moore has made only one fiction feature film (no wisecracks, you know what I mean). What is the name, and the plot?

(I promise, this is relevant to the thread.)I'm glad we all agree it was fiction... :D

However, he is planning a new fictional film about the same subject. :rolleyes:

[IJ Reilly]

I'm glad we all agree it was fiction... :D

However, he is planning a new fictional film about the same subject. :rolleyes:

Hmm, so you don't know the answer? Somebody must.

[Sun Baked]

Hmm, so you don't know the answer? Somebody must.You're a real Sicko, it's in the db.

Except for his recently announced future film.

[skunk]

Canadian Bacon

[IJ Reilly]

You're a real Sicko, it's in the db.

Of course it is, but that would be cheating.

[Xtremehkr]

Everybody says somebody should be prosecuted for war crimes, as they sit back and watch the bodies stack up in the mass graves, because they are unwilling to send their troops into an area and bring them to justice without the UN behind them.

It's sit back and wait for the UN to act, and we all know how quick they are.

Of course detaining the US President for trial would bring about some interesting military action that would probably end up with the US capturing more oil fields :p and leave Cheney in charge. :eek:

It's all probably a rumor made up by Halliburton in their effort to take over North America. :o

The way Cheney has continued to misrepresent the facts, he ought to have his sanity put on trial.

[blackfox]

I'm sorry, I thought this thread had to be satire with a title like that.

I guess I do not give Canada the respect she deserves.

Still with Global Warming and large shale-oil reserves, Canada may have the last laugh...

[Sun Baked]

Canadian BaconDamn, I thought that was the non-fiction docudrama people kept talking about.

[Chip NoVaMac]

So might continues to be right? Doing the right thing is "stupid"? The Law belongs to the victor? Bush is above the law? The US is above the law? Which of the above?

Only if you have to happen to be a GOP President. :eek:

[Chip NoVaMac]

Um, no to all of the above. You cannot hold the President responsible for isolated events in the field of battle. That is just crazy. To claim that he violated international law by invading Iraq. Nope. Saddam had violated the cease fire of the 1st gulf war, and thus, this could be argued was a reactivation of actions.

Or as it was once said, "the president reserves the right to act unilaterally if need be to defend this country against a tyrant like Sadam Hussain." -- John Kerry.

Yet Saddam was held for the actions of his troops at his direction. Spin it your way, in the end 20+ years from now GWB will be seen as the criminal that he is.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm not. I'm holding him responsible for falsifying the evidence in order to try to justify an aggressive war which has cost upwards of 100,000 lives, for failing to protect the civilian population, for failing to protect Iraq's cultural heritage, for allowing and condoning serial breaches of the Geneva Convention. A "reactivation of actions"? What kind of crap is that? Does that excuse flattening cities, murdering civilians and shutting down water supplies? This is some rebuilding effort.

Amen! Bush is no better than Saddam. The results are an end to the means. Whether it was killing his own people, or the killing of ones own people. The result is just wrong, particularly with the lies the GWB gave. God have mercy on his soul....

[Chip NoVaMac]

Damn, I thought that was the non-fiction docudrama people kept talking about.

That would be the GWB I and GWB II eras as non-fiction. Great stories spun so far......

[blackfox]

That would be the GWB I and GWB II eras as non-fiction. Great stories spun so far......

I happen to think that history will show the fact that the origional Bush was actually an underrated President. In retrospect, I give him a lot of credit for smart (and unpopular) policy choices.

Do not lump him together with his son. It is like comparing Bob and Ziggy Marley.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I happen to think that history will show the fact that the origional Bush was actually an underrated President. In retrospect, I give him a lot of credit for smart (and unpopular) policy choices.

Do not lump him together with his son. It is like comparing Bob and Ziggy Marley.

I was not referring to GHWB to GWB I & II. I was referring to the re-election of GWB. Sorry for the confusion. I think that GHWB had good goals, but lacked the follow through. At least he knew what a "coalition" was, unlike his dimwitted son.

[Roger1]

It would be more symbolic than anything else. Like a bench warrant or something. If GWB starts drinking again after his term is up and wanders into Canada by mistake they might pick him up on it.

It's a long, LONG walk from Texas to Canada :D That would be a bender anybody could be proud of :D :eek: :p

[Backtothemac]

I'm not. I'm holding him responsible for falsifying the evidence in order to try to justify an aggressive war which has cost upwards of 100,000 lives, for failing to protect the civilian population, for failing to protect Iraq's cultural heritage, for allowing and condoning serial breaches of the Geneva Convention. A "reactivation of actions"? What kind of crap is that? Does that excuse flattening cities, murdering civilians and shutting down water supplies? This is some rebuilding effort.

Your right skunk, Bush made up everything, he himself. Not the other members of the security counsel, not England's intel, Israel's Intel, Russia's intel, Japan's intel, etc, etc etc.

Bush and Bush only made up all the evidence against Saddam. :rolleyes:

[Backtothemac]

Amen! Bush is no better than Saddam. The results are an end to the means. Whether it was killing his own people, or the killing of ones own people. The result is just wrong, particularly with the lies the GWB gave. God have mercy on his soul....

Are you mad? Saddam has been attributed to killing over a million people in his rule. Saddam murdered his own people with Chemical weapons. He invaded Kuwait to reclaim it for his own. Had rape rooms, and prisons with 7 year old children in them!

Why can't you understand that after 9/11 we could no longer wait and see what would happen, to see if Saddam would aid Al Qeada, to see if he still had the weapons. We had to be proactive for our own defense, and as an American, I would rather fight the terrorist over there, than here.

And if we had not gone to Iraq, and just allowed Saddam to wait until sanctions were lifted, all of the reports show that he was going to reconstitute his weapons programs. Why don't you get angry over the billions that our so called allies fed to Saddam with the oil for food program? Where is your anger and disgust for that? Where is your anger for the Kuwait invasion, the Kurds, etc. How can you be so blind to only one side of an issue. Even I can admit the mistakes that have been made in the war as a supporter of the war, and the President, I don't think Bush is a God, he has made HUGE mistakes. However the principle action was justified during his policy clarifications after 9/11.

[zimv20]

Saddam has been attributed to killing over a million people in his rule.
but let's be fair, he had a lot more time!

;-)

[Chip NoVaMac]

Your right skunk, Bush made up everything, he himself. Not the other members of the security counsel, not England's intel, Israel's Intel, Russia's intel, Japan's intel, etc, etc etc.

Bush and Bush only made up all the evidence against Saddam. :rolleyes:

Oh, I forgot that GWB does not have responsibility for lying to the American people of the deaths of Americans and Iraqis for his administrations lies. Should not the boss bear the brunt of failed policies? The other "coalition" members should be rotting in hell along side GWB IMO. They are nothing more than whores that were looking for the scraps of the American gigolo that is GWB and the GOP.

Your comments may mean the end of the UN as a possibility of peace in the future. Just because they don't always support the the US does not mean they have no relevance in the peaceful world.

As we see in Iraq, the US had too much politics involved. Not too mention a son trying avenge his father. And profits for the likes of Haliburton. All these people IMO will have to answer to their God.

Now, God may have pity on either of us if we are wrong. Yet we are pawns that are being used, despite our words and actions.

[mactastic]

Your right skunk, Bush made up everything, he himself. Not the other members of the security counsel, not England's intel, Israel's Intel, Russia's intel, Japan's intel, etc, etc etc.

Bush and Bush only made up all the evidence against Saddam. :rolleyes:

Doesn't matter BTTM. Bush (and Blair who is equally culpable) ACTED on that intel. No one else was sure enough to begin an invasion over except Bush. And surely you, who knows about intelligence, won't try that tired line about how Congress saw all the intel that the president and his advisors saw. You know that's not true. If (and I'm not claiming there is) there is reason to charge Bush for an illegal invasion he will not be able to say that the buck stops anywhere but with him. He knew (or should have known) what the stakes were when he gave the go-ahead.

If he wants to bask in any laurels from this invasion, he needs to be ready to accept responsibility for it going badly. I was taught that those go hand in hand.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Are you mad? Saddam has been attributed to killing over a million people in his rule. Saddam murdered his own people with Chemical weapons. He invaded Kuwait to reclaim it for his own. Had rape rooms, and prisons with 7 year old children in them!

Why can't you understand that after 9/11 we could no longer wait and see what would happen, to see if Saddam would aid Al Qeada, to see if he still had the weapons. We had to be proactive for our own defense, and as an American, I would rather fight the terrorist over there, than here.

And if we had not gone to Iraq, and just allowed Saddam to wait until sanctions were lifted, all of the reports show that he was going to reconstitute his weapons programs. Why don't you get angry over the billions that our so called allies fed to Saddam with the oil for food program? Where is your anger and disgust for that? Where is your anger for the Kuwait invasion, the Kurds, etc. How can you be so blind to only one side of an issue. Even I can admit the mistakes that have been made in the war as a supporter of the war, and the President, I don't think Bush is a God, he has made HUGE mistakes. However the principle action was justified during his policy clarifications after 9/11.

As been said Saddam had more time. But should we not lead by example? Should we not provide healthcare for all Americans that is affordable? Should we not improve our infrastructure?

My disgust is towards those in our government that have allowed people not to have decent housing or healthcare. We created Saddam many years ago. I ask, where was your outrage then?

Show me and others the links to 9-11! That is a false "god" to many now. It is time to give that false prophesy up. He had Powell stand up and lie for him. Now we have "Vietnam" era troops committing war crimes. All in the name of "warfare". What does GWB understand about warfare?

GWB and company have created a world that they can profit from. We are less safe now than we were in 2003, prior to the attack on Iraq. We did little with the now $120B US to truly win the "hearts and minds". We are now a nation of the "shock & awe". Leave people fearful. But if they have no hope as they do in the US, they will turn against us.

The age of the Empire is now dead. But GWB and company have not seen that. They still only see profits for the DOD and their contractors. That is all this "war" is about. Not to mention putting their "puppets" in powers. Like in Afghanistan.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Doesn't matter BTTM. Bush (and Blair who is equally culpable) ACTED on that intel. No one else was sure enough to begin an invasion over except Bush. And surely you, who knows about intelligence, won't try that tired line about how Congress saw all the intel that the president and his advisors saw. You know that's not true. If (and I'm not claiming there is) there is reason to charge Bush for an illegal invasion he will not be able to say that the buck stops anywhere but with him. He knew (or should have known) what the stakes were when he gave the go-ahead.

If he wants to bask in any laurels from this invasion, he needs to be ready to accept responsibility for it going badly. I was taught that those go hand in hand.

GWB would try to find a scapegoat. He would give his own father at this point.

[Backtothemac]

Oh, I forgot that GWB does not have responsibility for lying to the American people of the deaths of Americans and Iraqis for his administrations lies. Should not the boss bear the brunt of failed policies? The other "coalition" members should be rotting in hell along side GWB IMO. They are nothing more than whores that were looking for the scraps of the American gigolo that is GWB and the GOP.

Your comments may mean the end of the UN as a possibility of peace in the future. Just because they don't always support the the US does not mean they have no relevance in the peaceful world.

As we see in Iraq, the US had too much politics involved. Not too mention a son trying avenge his father. And profits for the likes of Haliburton. All these people IMO will have to answer to their God.

Now, God may have pity on either of us if we are wrong. Yet we are pawns that are being used, despite our words and actions.

Again, you miss the point, the UN as a possiblity of peace. Give me one example where the UN has contributed to peace. One. How about the billions that were funneled through the UN in oil money. How about the bribes, the corruption. World government. HA. What a joke.

[Backtothemac]

As been said Saddam had more time. But should we not lead by example? Should we not provide healthcare for all Americans that is affordable? Should we not improve our infrastructure?

No, we should not provide healthcare.


My disgust is towards those in our government that have allowed people not to have decent housing or healthcare. We created Saddam many years ago. I ask, where was your outrage then?

Last time I checked, this is a free country, and we have the self determination to make our own fate. I come from not much, and have made a future for my family and my family's future. Capitalism, it rocks.


Show me and others the links to 9-11! That is a false "god" to many now. It is time to give that false prophesy up. He had Powell stand up and lie for him. Now we have "Vietnam" era troops committing war crimes. All in the name of "warfare". What does GWB understand about warfare?

What do you understand about warfare, have you ever served in a forward combat situation? The intel was there, the weapons were there, then they were missing. Hmmm, wonder where they could be. 9/11, the link, here it is very clearly for you. We can no longer wait for threats to show themselves. We must engage them before they strike here at home. Easy enough?


GWB and company have created a world that they can profit from. We are less safe now than we were in 2003, prior to the attack on Iraq. We did little with the now $120B US to truly win the "hearts and minds". We are now a nation of the "shock & awe". Leave people fearful. But if they have no hope as they do in the US, they will turn against us.


And you know this from what, the media? Talk to people there on the ground? Have friends there, or better yet, how many Iraqi's do you know.


The age of the Empire is now dead. But GWB and company have not seen that. They still only see profits for the DOD and their contractors. That is all this "war" is about. Not to mention putting their "puppets" in powers. Like in Afghanistan.

So Chip, what would have had us do in Afghanistan? Wait, I know you are really Michael Moore right? Would you have had us send them some flowers and say, we are sorry for 45 years of US policy.

[Chip NoVaMac]

No, we should not provide healthcare.


Last time I checked, this is a free country, and we have the self determination to make our own fate. I come from not much, and have made a future for my family and my family's future. Capitalism, it rocks.


What do you understand about warfare, have you ever served in a forward combat situation? The intel was there, the weapons were there, then they were missing. Hmmm, wonder where they could be. 9/11, the link, here it is very clearly for you. We can no longer wait for threats to show themselves. We must engage them before they strike here at home. Easy enough?



And you know this from what, the media? Talk to people there on the ground? Have friends there, or better yet, how many Iraqi's do you know.



So Chip, what would have had us do in Afghanistan? Wait, I know you are really Michael Moore right? Would you have had us send them some flowers and say, we are sorry for 45 years of US policy.

Keep believing the GOP lies. You are as misinformed as you try to paint me. Unfortunately you and I will be long gone before the lies come out. Some of us fight for war (like yourself in your posts), and there are those that look to peace.

The Bible asks us to to look towards Peace. Is that so hard to understand?

[IJ Reilly]

Chip, BTTM -- you might want to think about backing off each other some. The civility of this thread appears to be deteriorating.

Not in a position to warn, just making a request for the good of the order etc. Thanks.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Chip, BTTM -- you might want to think about backing off each other some. The civility of this thread appears to be deteriorating.

Not in a position to warn, just making a request for the good of the order etc. Thanks.

Sorry IJ, I respect your position. I understand. BTTM "baited" me IMO with his stance. I should have known better. But you should understand that comments that I responded to from BTTM are hard to ignore, from an open discussion standpoint.

I come from a long line of family that the country comes first. It is hard now to blindly take that for granted. just because someone served in uniform, does not give them the right to dictate their will or opinion on others as gospel.

In some ways I look at the current state of the DNC in not trying to match the RNC (conservative) voice on the issues. I look at the last 8+ years of the "liberal" voice being shouted down by the "conservative" voice. So there are times that I feel the need to speak up.

Thanks for providing a perspective that balances that. Maybe it is time for me to use the "ignore" function here.

Peace....

Chip

[Thomas Veil]

Outside of one well-publicized (and quickly squelched) attempt in Belgium, no one has tried to formally indict Bush.
I read something about that. At least they had the balls to try.

I'm really starting to think that our best hope lies in the international community, since we obviously aren't going to stop this idjit.


Concurrently, the new United Nations outlawed all aggressive wars except those authorized by its Security Council.
This is a little trickier. Even Kerry said he would use unilateral action if he had to in the event the U.S. was attacked.


Why can't you understand that after 9/11 we could no longer wait and see what would happen, to see if Saddam would aid Al Qeada, to see if he still had the weapons. We had to be proactive for our own defense, and as an American, I would rather fight the terrorist over there, than here.
I think the Dulfer Report answered this argument pretty well.

And as far as fighting them over there than over here, I'd feel a lot better about that if the billions we are pouring into the Money Pit (Iraq) were spent in Afghanistan hunting down Osama, and in the U.S. improving security at ports and nuclear and chemical facilities.