2009 Core i7 iMac vs. 2010 Core i7 iMac?

[wirelessness]

After waiting patiently for the latest refresh I am still on the fence about buying the new model.

The i7 model is what I have been interested in but I am dubious if the new model is that big of an improvement of the the last generation model....MAINLY because the 09 i7's are now available for $1699 refurbished. At the original price of $2200 it's a no brainer to go with the mew model. But for $500 less I'm not so sure....thoughts?

[Hellhammer]

It's not worth 500$ more unless the minor GPU bump is significant for you. I would go with refurb

[dexthageek]

It's not worth 500$ more unless the minor GPU bump is significant for you. I would go with refurb

+1

[iShater]

The $500 is definitely enough motivation to go with the refurbs. Save the $500 towards the next machine you buy in a few years.

[dwd3885]

After waiting patiently for the latest refresh I am still on the fence about buying the new model.

The i7 model is what I have been interested in but I am dubious if the new model is that big of an improvement of the the last generation model....MAINLY because the 09 i7's are now available for $1699 refurbished. At the original price of $2200 it's a no brainer to go with the mew model. But for $500 less I'm not so sure....thoughts?

refurb all the way. i returned my new quad i5 for the refurb i7. had to eat a $189 restocking fee (damn apple), but it still evens out to be the same price instead of $200 more.

[wirelessness]

It's not worth 500$ more unless the minor GPU bump is significant for you. I would go with refurb


The other significantly cool change to the 2010 models is the addition of a 3rd SATA interface and the option to add and SSD drive. That said, I am not hearing great things about the performance and especially the long term performance of the SSD drives Apple are using. I'm not really too excited about paying an extra $650 to have to opportunity to swap out the Apple provided SSD drive with one that is better.

[flopticalcube]

The refurbs look very, very good now. The internal SSD drive looks like a scary upgrade for a DIY. Not something I would do unless they made it easy.

[Hellhammer]

The other significantly cool change to the 2010 models is the addition of a 3rd SATA interface and the option to add and SSD drive. That said, I am not hearing great things about the performance and especially the long term performance of the SSD drives Apple are using. I'm not really too excited about paying an extra $650 to have to opportunity to swap out the Apple provided SSD drive with one that is better.

It's crazy price for SSD plus it's very hard to do it yourself so you would pay 600$ on top of that 500$, making the new one 1100$ more.

[Sixtyin3]

What bothers me is that I am still paying $1629 for LAST years model in a REFURBISHED state. Regardless of how much I'm saving over new, its last year (or older) tech thats been refurb'd. That's a lot of money for a refurb. Am I the only the that is bothered by that?

[wirelessness]

It's crazy price for SSD plus it's very hard to do it yourself so you would pay 600$ on top of that 500$, making the new one 1100$ more.

I would resell the original SSD to someone on CL/eBay, prolly with a MBP....but still.

[napos]

What bothers me is that I am still paying $1629 for LAST years model in a REFURBISHED state. Regardless of how much I'm saving over new, its last year (or older) tech thats been refurb'd. That's a lot of money for a refurb. Am I the only the that is bothered by that?

You are. The way I look at it.. a refurb means they've "double checked and fixed" the issues. It's like getting a CPO warranty to me on a car rather than off a small used car lot. Plus it's $500...

I had a 21.5" i5 3.6 on order yesterday for $1597 (corp discount). Today I canceled it and ordered a $1699 27" i7 refurb. So for $100 more, I'm getting a much larger screen, and a monster i7 quad HT/TB setup. I sacrifice on the video card but I'm not PC gamer.. I have a PS3 for that.

The refurb deal is just too good

[johnnymg]

What bothers me is that I am still paying $1629 for LAST years model in a REFURBISHED state. Regardless of how much I'm saving over new, its last year (or older) tech thats been refurb'd. That's a lot of money for a refurb. Am I the only the that is bothered by that?

Actually, that's a VERY good deal considering the 27" backlit display and quad processing power of the machine.

If you want cheap, there are a LOT of windows based options. :p

cheers
JohnG

[mr.steevo]

What bothers me is that I am still paying $1629 for LAST years model in a REFURBISHED state. Regardless of how much I'm saving over new, its last year (or older) tech thats been refurb'd. That's a lot of money for a refurb. Am I the only the that is bothered by that?

Hi,

It may be that the iMac's in the Refurb store are in fact new and that Apple is just getting rid of the final stock.

I've heard great things about refurbs from Apple. Some people have started up their machine only to discover it has upgrades they didn't pay for!

s.

[dexthageek]

Hi,

It may be that the iMac's in the Refurb store are in fact new and that Apple is just getting rid of the final stock.

I've heard great things about refurbs from Apple. Some people have started up their machine only to discover it has upgrades they didn't pay for!

s.

Yup, my refurb runs great. However, no extras for me. A friend of mine had 8GB in his.

[henrikrox]

is it only me that hate used machines? i mean, i dont like that dude x have used a machine before me, but thats just me i guess.

i do agree that the 10-15% gain in peformance maybe isnt worth the price. But still, faster ram, cpu and gpu, ill take that any day.

[dexthageek]

is it only me that hate used machines? i mean, i dont like that dude x have used a machine before me, but thats just me i guess.

i do agree that the 10-15% gain in peformance maybe isnt worth the price. But still, faster ram, cpu and gpu, ill take that any day.

Yeah, I am sure most of us would as well. But cost vs budget is one of the things that almost everyone has to look at as a deciding factor. If money was no object, screw the iMac, give me a 12-core Mac Pro.

[JohnRN]

Just bought the i7 refurb to replace my old 1.8gh 17" 4.5yr old iMac that's been very good to me :) Just could not pass up that awesome price of 1699 for such an incredible machine!!! Here's to hoping it has no yellow screen issues or cracks, etc. Please be nice to my new baby FedEx

[dwd3885]

is it only me that hate used machines? i mean, i dont like that dude x have used a machine before me, but thats just me i guess.

i do agree that the 10-15% gain in peformance maybe isnt worth the price. But still, faster ram, cpu and gpu, ill take that any day.

i never thought of it like, oh this guy had this computer before me. Apple's refurbs are top notch. In fact, I've only purchased Apple refurbs. New Apple computers are more expensive and what's the point? You still get the great 1-year warranty. And in this case, you get an i7 for $200 LESS than the new i5 w/edu discount (1899). The old i7 is worth it over the new i5 if it's MORE expensive. To be cheaper is a steal.

[Eidorian]

The Core i5 750 is still worthwhile. It just takes some suffering to endure the Mobility HD 4850.

[Hellhammer]

The Core i5 750 is still worthwhile. It just takes some suffering to endure the Mobility HD 4850.

The Mobility 5850 isn't that big upgrade. Definitely not worth hundreds unless every frame matters

[dwd3885]

The Mobility 5850 isn't that big upgrade. Definitely not worth hundreds unless every frame matters

So it's:

i7 + 4850 512mb
1066 ram
vs
i5 5850 1gb
1333 ram

same price.

[spice weasel]

is it only me that hate used machines? i mean, i dont like that dude x have used a machine before me, but thats just me i guess.

Guess you plan on marrying a virgin then? :D

[dexthageek]

So it's:

i7 + 4850 512mb
1066 ram
vs
i5 5850 1gb
1333 ram

same price.

i7 + 4850 - Hyperthreading will increase the longevity of the machine! 4 vs 8 threads.

[Hellhammer]

So it's:

i7 + 4850 512mb
1066 ram
vs
i5 5850 1gb
1333 ram

same price.

Depends on what do you do. i7 supports HT which makes it better deal IMO but if GPU is more important for you, then the new one is better.

[dwd3885]

Depends on what do you do. i7 supports HT which makes it better deal IMO but if GPU is more important for you, then the new one is better.

Well the GPU is that much better than having the extra hyperthreading? Sorry to hijack thread, but I don't game. But I do a lot of aperture work and video editing in iMovie. But most have been fine with my 3.06 C2D iMac ATI 4670 graphics. And the i7 WOULD'VE been $200 CHEAPER, if I didn't already buy the i5 and have to eat the $189 restocking fee. I guess if it were $200 cheaper then definitely the way to go.

[wirelessness]

So it's:

i7 + 4850 512mb
1066 ram
vs
i5 5850 1gb
1333 ram

same price.

I think your math may be wrong here:

Refurb i7 is $1699

New i5 w/ 5850 1gb is $2049

So for $350 you get a better graphics card and two less cores. I'm not saying which is better...just that the prices are NOT the SAME.

[webpoet73]

I am also interested in this topic... so looking at Notebook Check, it has the Mobility 4850 rated higher than the Mobility 5850... so, which is really better? Out of the ATi cards, 4850 ranked 10th and 5850 ranked 11th...

Now, the 5850 is DX 11 compliant and the 4850 is only DX 10.1 compliant. This only matters when boot camping to game on Windows...

Seems to me the old refurb is a much better value than the new i7.

[Hellhammer]

I am also interested in this topic... so looking at Notebook Check, it has the Mobility 4850 rated higher than the Mobility 5850... so, which is really better? Out of the ATi cards, 4850 ranked 10th and 5850 ranked 11th...

Now, the 5850 is DX 11 compliant and the 4850 is only DX 10.1 compliant. This only matters when boot camping to game on Windows...

Seems to me the old refurb is a much better value than the new i7.

It's rated higher because most 5850 use GDDR3 while the one Apple uses has GDDR5 which makes noticeable difference. 5850 with GDDR5 should be around 10% faster than 4850

[dwd3885]

I think your math may be wrong here:

Refurb i7 is $1699

New i5 w/ 5850 1gb is $2049

So for $350 you get a better graphics card and two less cores. I'm not saying which is better...just that the prices are NOT the SAME.

The price I get on the i5 is 1899 (edu discount).

The new i5 is quad, no hyper threading. So you have the same amount of cores, but the i7 has hyper threading. Am I correct? It's only the SAME price because I already bought the i5 and would need to return it ($189 restocking) so it equals out to the same price.

[Tango Charlie]

This thread has me considering buying a refurbished i7.
How has everyone's experience been with buying refurb'd iMacs? Do they come spic-and-span? Shiny and new? No dings or scratches or signs of wear, right?

[webpoet73]

It's rated higher because most 5850 use GDDR3 while the one Apple uses has GDDR5 which makes noticeable difference. 5850 with GDDR5 should be around 10% faster than 4850

So, that amounts to about how many fps for the average game (not Crysis)? I probably won't use my iMac for heavy duty gaming, I may get some games from Steam but I am sure that either card outclasses my HD 2600 PRO. :)

[dwd3885]

This thread has me considering buying a refurbished i7.
How has everyone's experience been with buying refurb'd iMacs? Do they come spic-and-span? Shiny and new? No dings or scratches or signs of wear, right?

usually impeccable.

[Riyube]

I think your math may be wrong here:

Refurb i7 is $1699

New i5 w/ 5850 1gb is $2049

So for $350 you get a better graphics card and two less cores. I'm not saying which is better...just that the prices are NOT the SAME.
how about considering the sales tax, esp. in California? Comparing between getting refub from Apple or new from Amazon? The difference will be considered minor?

[Hellhammer]

So, that amounts to about how many fps for the average game (not Crysis)? I probably won't use my iMac for heavy duty gaming, I may get some games from Steam but I am sure that either card outclasses my HD 2600 PRO. :)

Yeah, it shows some figures of what FPS you should expect. 4850 should play all games just fine, and so will 5850

[wirelessness]

The price I get on the i5 is 1899 (edu discount).

The new i5 is quad, no hyper threading. So you have the same amount of cores, but the i7 has hyper threading. Am I correct? It's only the SAME price because I already bought the i5 and would need to return it ($189 restocking) so it equals out to the same price.

Well, I didn't count the education discount (or your restocking fee). But it is still $150 more.

There are TWO i5 processor models available. I assumed you were talking about the 3.6GHz Intel Core i5 model using the i5-680 which is dual core w/ HT and TB.

The 4 core version is the 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5-760 w/ no HT but has TB (for some reason the Quad Core model is $50 less with the same GPU than the 2 Core i5)

Freaking Intel.....could they make it any less intuitive?

[henrikrox]

i never thought of it like, oh this guy had this computer before me. Apple's refurbs are top notch. In fact, I've only purchased Apple refurbs. New Apple computers are more expensive and what's the point? You still get the great 1-year warranty. And in this case, you get an i7 for $200 LESS than the new i5 w/edu discount (1899). The old i7 is worth it over the new i5 if it's MORE expensive. To be cheaper is a steal.

Ofcoure, but you mention one part that is better on the refurb. While you dont mention better gpu, faster ram and 2 hdd slots.

[henrikrox]

Guess you plan on marrying a virgin then? :D

haha good point, weird, i do like virgins ;O but thats a whole different chapter

[wirelessness]

how about considering the sales tax, esp. in California? Comparing between getting refub from Apple or new from Amazon? The difference will be considered minor?

Dude, don't throw Amazon or MacConnections into the mix. We are trying to make an Apples to Apples comparison here. Literally!!!

Not saying you shouldn't look around. I'd buy off Craigs List if I could find someone who wasn't a scammer.

[tturland]

Right chaps (and ladies!), bit of a dilemma here....was going to order a new 2010 iMac i7, but have just seen:

a) the price drop on 2009 refurbished i7 models, and
b) Geekbench 2 scores between the two of only 600 points

My question to all here is: Is it worth paying £410 extra between a refurbished i7 and a new 2010 i7?? See the geekbench scores below of 9261 (2010) and 8631 (2009):

http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/search?q=imac+i7&commit=Search

[dwd3885]

Ofcoure, but you mention one part that is better on the refurb. While you dont mention better gpu, faster ram and 2 hdd slots.

totally agree. Better gpu, faster ram. but 2 hdd slots don't matter unless you buy two to start with as it looks like it's heck to aftermarket install.

I just figured getting the better cpu would be better than the better gpu and faster ram? Maybe I'm wrong? To me, it looked like i7 (hyper + turbo) is better than i5 (turbo, no hyper). and that the gpu and ram differences are negligible.

[Eidorian]

The Mobility 5850 isn't that big upgrade. Definitely not worth hundreds unless every frame mattersStill, it's so 2008.

The Core i5 750 is solid until 2012 at the very least.

[skcrane]

I also have been debating on the i7 quad refurb for $1699 and seems to be the way to go you really can not beat the price, the only difference seems to be the graphics card.

[johnnymg]

I also have been debating on the i7 quad refurb for $1699 and seems to be the way to go you really can not beat the price, the only difference seems to be the graphics card.

Even more important (for non gamers) is the third internal SATA port in the 2010 model. I think it will be only a very short time before people reconfigure this third port as an esata connection. I'm certainly leaning towards that. If it wasn't for this 3 sata port in the 2010 the 09 i7 refurb would be a no-brainer choice from a cost/performance perspective.

cheers
JohnG

[wirelessness]

I think it will be only a very short time before people reconfigure this third port as an esata connection.

How is this going to be possible without drilling a hole in the back of your iMac case? I'm not sure I need external storage that much.

I'm more interested in the 3rd SATA port to possibly do RAID0 with two SSD drives when the prices and long term performance get better. But, that could be done with the 09 models buy cannibalizing the optical drive SATA port.....oh the dilemmas.

[johnnymg]

How is this going to be possible without drilling a hole in the back of your iMac case? I'm not sure I need external storage that much.

I'm more interested in the 3rd SATA port to possibly do RAID0 with two SSD drives when the prices and long term performance get better. But, that could be done with the 09 models buy cannibalizing the optical drive SATA port.....oh the dilemmas.

Where there's a will there's a way ~~~~~~~~~~ :p

Waiting to see how people deal with the sata/case cannibalization. :eek:

cheers
JohnG

[LionheartAKB]

I just ordered the new iMac 27" i7 a few days ago... and now I find this thread! My item hasnt shipped yet... Is it too late to call and change/cancel the order without a restocking fee? I did buy a BTO system with an upgraded 2TB HDD, if this makes a difference.

I was ready to buy an i7 iMac 5 months ago, but the thought of getting a whistling yellow screened system stopped me. I was opptimisic that the new systems would have the problems fixed. With my edu discount, I paid $2079 for the iMac before taxes (and minus the HDD increase). So, the difference for me would be $380 to get the i7 refurb. I was wondering though... are refurb units still eligable for the back to school promotion? As in, can I still get the free ipod and $100 printer??

The other issue I was wanting to avoid is getting a problematic refurb and have to keep shipping it back and waiting for a replacement. As is, I ordered by new iMac on Tues and it wont even go out in the mail until tomorrow. Being shipped from China to FL is going to take another week. So if I get a bad system, it takes 2 weeks to get it to me, and probably a week for me to ship one back. I just worried about being out of a computer for such a long time. Initally, I wanted to buy the new iMac from my local apple store just for the convenience of not waiting on shipping... and if there are any issues I could exchange it in the store. But when I called my Apple store, I spoke with 3 employees and none of them even new about a refreshed iMac, let alone had any in stock. When I do get the iMac, if it does have issues, can I exchange at an apple store? Or since its BTO will I have to mail it back?

[dexthageek]

This thread has me considering buying a refurbished i7.
How has everyone's experience been with buying refurb'd iMacs? Do they come spic-and-span? Shiny and new? No dings or scratches or signs of wear, right?

Great I love my i7 refurb!
And at $1699 it is a steal!

The other issue I was wanting to avoid is getting a problematic refurb and have to keep shipping it back and waiting for a replacement.

I personally believe that the odds of getting a problematic machine is the same for both "New" and "Refurbished"
Refurbished Models go through extra QC so the changes of a problematic refurb and slightly less.

[blinkin182]

Great I love my i7 refurb!
And at $1699 it is a steal!



I personally believe that the odds of getting a problematic machine is the same for both "New" and "Refurbished"
Refurbished Models go through extra QC so the changes of a problematic refurb and slightly less.

Am also on the fence between new models and refurbished i7. I'm leaning towards the latter, although the 4850 GPU will probably see little benefit to OpenCL unfortunately.

But it is pretty good value for the money and it ships within 24h :)

[zedsdead]

Go for the Refurb. The processors in the high end iMac are the same as eth last generation, just with a slight speed bump.

Unless you plan to spend a lot more and go with the SSD, you are better off with the refurb i7.

[LionheartAKB]

With my edu discount, I paid $2079 for the iMac before taxes (and minus the HDD increase). So, the difference for me would be $380 to get the i7 refurb. I was wondering though... are refurb units still eligable for the back to school promotion? As in, can I still get the free ipod and $100 printer??

Well, I did some research and found out that a refurb system does NOT qualify for the BTS promotion. So really, with the edu discount, and free $200 ipod, the price difference between new and refurb is only $180. At that rate, I'll just keep my order for the new iMac. I dont mind paying a little extra for peace of mind that no one has owned it before me. And while minimal, it's still nice to have a small processor speed bump, graphics bumb, and fater RAM. I think that would help with the resale value if I ever need to get rid of it or upgrade.

As a side note... it's still an expensive purchase!! With my edu discount, a $2079 system + $130 HDD upgrade + $180 tax + $120 Apple Care, quickly became a $2509 machine!!! I was schocked with how fast it all adds up! I had enough issues paying the initial $2079, lol. Oh well... I'm still really excitied and cant wait for it to arrive! Aug 6th delivery date.

[dwd3885]

Go for the Refurb. The processors in the high end iMac are the same as eth last generation, just with a slight speed bump.

Unless you plan to spend a lot more and go with the SSD, you are better off with the refurb i7.

The refurb is so much cheaper if you are looking at i7 and i7. Heck, even the new quad i5 is more expensive than the refurb i7

I returned the new i5, paid the restocking fee, bought the refurb i7 overnight shipping will be here in a few hours and still cheaper.

[blinkin182]

The refurb is so much cheaper if you are looking at i7 and i7. Heck, even the new quad i5 is more expensive than the refurb i7

I returned the new i5, paid the restocking fee, bought the refurb i7 overnight shipping will be here in a few hours and still cheaper.

Good for you ;)

I haven't ordered yet but thinking of getting refurb i7 like you. Am wondering though about one thing: If rumors are correct about a new iLife coming out beginning of August, would refurb iMac buyers be eligible for a free upgrade to iLife '11 just as new iMac buyers would do you think?

[JohnRN]

[QUOTE=blinkin182;10698201
Would refurb iMac buyers be eligible for a free upgrade to iLife '11 just as new iMac buyers would do you think?[/QUOTE]

Ohh good question........!!! But even if it isn't, I'd think saving the $500 on the refurb would certainly outweigh the cost of having to fork over $79 for new iLife. :)

[dwd3885]

Ohh good question........!!! But even if it isn't, I'd think saving the $500 on the refurb would certainly outweigh the cost of having to fork over $79 for new iLife. :)

I usually believe it is 'yes'. If we are within the designated period.

[scienide09]

After following this and other threads, as well as starting my own (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=980211), I decided that the refurb price on the 2009 27" quad-core i7 was too good to pass up. Even with the exhange rate for buying in Canada, I feel like it's a solid computer, perfect for my needs, and a great price (even after accounting for educ. discount/iPod deal I can get).

For those wondering about new vs. refurb, I'll echo what others have said about the quality of refurbished products. My MBP and my AEBS were both purchased as refurbs, and arrived in flawless condition and work perfectly. I have no doubts or reservations about purchasing refurbs from Apple.

[dwd3885]

just got the refurb i7. Can I say it's fast? And it's in flawless condition. No whine, hdd noise or anything. Transferring everything over. Although, to be honest, I can't tell if it's faster than the quad i5 I returned. But it is a little cheaper and I'm sure once I start encoding eyetv recordings and editing video and photos, I will tell the difference, especially between this and my old 3.06 Core 2.

[yzc717]

is this new i7 with a 45nm cpu or a 32nm CPU?

[JohnRN]

is this new i7 with a 45nm cpu or a 32nm CPU?

The old and new i7's use the 45nm process to include the old/new i5 quads. The i5 dual cores use the 32nm.

[JPSensei]

I live in Japan and i also ordered the refurbished 27 i7 2.8Ghz, it was $545 cheaper (¥46.600 less, new i7 in Japan ¥206.477 -$2416-, refurbished ¥159.800 -$1870-).

By the way I hate the fact that i have to pay so much more than in the US, the price for new i7 is $2079 in the US with student discount but in Japan we pay for it $337 more, or $2.416 (¥206.477) in the Apple Store Japan.

I guess it is because the yen is very strong lately which sucks, Apple toys are more expensive :(