PDA

View Full Version : Apple tv (aTV) outputting to a Projector 1080p (quality loss?)




musio
Aug 3, 2010, 05:56 PM
Say you had an Apple TV and this 1080p projector
optoma hd200x projector (http://www.optoma.co.uk/projectordetailshe.aspx?ShowMenu=HE&PTypedb=Home%20Entertainment&PC=HD200X)

how much loss of quality are you going to get? I'm new to atv and read a lot about the up scaling and atv not processing 1080p video...

Thanks!



ericvmazzone
Aug 3, 2010, 11:26 PM
The Apple TV ONLY outputs 720p. There IS not upconvert. The documentation covers this.

NJuul
Aug 4, 2010, 02:55 AM
The Apple TV only supports 720p video, but it will upscale and thus output 1080p if you so desire.
You will not loose quality from your original file, if that is in 720p. But say you have a bluray rip you want to play on your projector, then you first need to convert it to a 720p 24fps file for the ATV to play it, which will result in a considerable loss of quality.

musio
Aug 4, 2010, 03:25 AM
Thanks. I will be getting the 1080p projector in the above post but i think it's reasonable for me to pickup a 2nd hand atv and wait for apple to release a new model. From sales statistics and rumours here, it looks like it will be sometime soon. I'm sure apple will support 1080p in the new version.

mstrze
Aug 4, 2010, 10:15 AM
The Apple TV ONLY outputs 720p. There IS not upconvert. The documentation covers this.

ATV absolutely DOES provide output at 1080...it just does not play back movie files higher than 720p resolution. I currently have my ATV outputting at 1080p.

Under the setup menu there are many output options, certainly not just 720p.

Not sure what 'documentation' you have read.

mstrze
Aug 4, 2010, 10:20 AM
I'm sure apple will support 1080p in the new version.

I don't know...I certainly am not 'sure' about that myself.

Look at these negatives:


NO 1080 content available from iTunes...if there were, file sizes would be much larger and therefore many ATV users would have a tough time downloading a 1080HD movie...not a great experience. Heck, some folk have slow enough connections that makes 720p movie downloads a chore.
NO Blu-Ray drives as an option for any Macs. Steve won't even consider them in his computers...therefore there is no way for the general public to easily obtain a 1080p file.


I suppose it could happen, but those two glaring negatives make it seem far from likely in my opinion.

rayward
Aug 4, 2010, 11:16 AM
I don't know...I certainly am not 'sure' about that myself.

Look at these negatives:


NO 1080 content available from iTunes...if there were, file sizes would be much larger and therefore many ATV users would have a tough time downloading a 1080HD movie...not a great experience. Heck, some folk have slow enough connections that makes 720p movie downloads a chore.
NO Blu-Ray drives as an option for any Macs. Steve won't even consider them in his computers...therefore there is no way for the general public to easily obtain a 1080p file.


I suppose it could happen, but those two glaring negatives make it seem far from likely in my opinion.

Considering that ATV is primarily designed to play iTunes content on your TV, 1080p is a bit of a white whale. You'd get less than 100, 1080p quality movies, on a 2TB HDD before you fill it up. ATV doesn't need to be full 1080p compatible because storing/streaming 1080p movies won't be practical for some time to come.

FWIW, I'm happy watching 720p encodes of Blu Ray rips on my 55" Sony via my ATV, and I can store 10 times as many on the same HDD as I could if they were full 1080p. I love the convenience. If I want 1080p, I can pop the Blu Ray disk into my PS3.

mchalebk
Aug 4, 2010, 12:39 PM
In my opinion, there is one very strong reason that the next AppleTV should offer 1080p playback: home video.

With HD camcorders getting more and more popular, more and more people will be recording home videos at 720p@30Hz or 1080p@24 or 30 Hz. You shouldn't have to downscale your videos to view them on your TV and, in my opinion, the AppleTV is the best way to view home video.

rayward
Aug 4, 2010, 02:36 PM
In my opinion, there is one very strong reason that the next AppleTV should offer 1080p playback: home video.

With HD camcorders getting more and more popular, more and more people will be recording home videos at 720p@30Hz or 1080p@24 or 30 Hz. You shouldn't have to downscale your videos to view them on your TV and, in my opinion, the AppleTV is the best way to view home video.

Good point. iPhone 4 can take video at 720p/30fps, so they need to at least up the frame rate.

musio
Aug 4, 2010, 03:49 PM
Just to steer this to my first post as i'm not sure it was answered; i'm connecting the ATV to a projector. The projection is a lot larger than an average tv which is why i posted..

Surely this coupled with the the 720/1080 arguments that are going on will have an impact on the quality - what i'm asking is, to what extent? Does anyone connect an ATV to a projector? Is there a noticeable loss of quality? Is it negligible?

dynaflash
Aug 4, 2010, 04:20 PM
Loss of quality from what ? Its totally relative. Loss of quality vs. feeding it (the projector) a 1080p blue ray source ... yes. Loss of quality vs. a 720p source ... no. The question is really erroneous. Your Projector does not dictate the sources quality. It will display the source quality as best it can.

[Edit] And to be clear the atv can not decode 1080p sources but *can* in fact upscale up to 720p sources up to 1080p which is not the same. Much like your dvd player upscales 480p content.

[Edit 2 ] As far as your question about how much worse it might look on that projector vs say a 42" lcd ... well probably no more or less (though might likely be better ) than how much worse a dvd looks on the two separate screens. Again its a bit of an open ended question.

musio
Aug 4, 2010, 04:32 PM
Thanks dynaflash. I'm a bit new to this sort of thing so bear with me!... I understand there will be a loss with blueray but i know with a 1080p projector you may be able to see slightly more detail viewing less than 1080 material but i guess it's not a big a deal as i thought in this situation as by the ATV up scaling, you'll lose some sharpness anyway

Thanks for all the replies people. Very interesting to read and learn about this new world! :)

mstrze
Aug 6, 2010, 08:53 AM
I'm not 100% sure of this, but it's my thinking that a projector would not be as sharp as a regular 1080p HDTV. My friend has a projector and even though it's 1080p, it still looks a bit worse than my HDTV at home. I mean, you are blasting essentially an image some 10 feet or more across the room. Do projectors actually produce a much higher than 1080p image to account for the exapansion of the pixels as the pass through the lens toward the screen? Maybe it doesn't matter?

steviem
Aug 6, 2010, 09:04 AM
I don't know...I certainly am not 'sure' about that myself.

Look at these negatives:


NO 1080 content available from iTunes...if there were, file sizes would be much larger and therefore many ATV users would have a tough time downloading a 1080HD movie...not a great experience. Heck, some folk have slow enough connections that makes 720p movie downloads a chore.
NO Blu-Ray drives as an option for any Macs. Steve won't even consider them in his computers...therefore there is no way for the general public to easily obtain a 1080p file.


I suppose it could happen, but those two glaring negatives make it seem far from likely in my opinion.

Why do you think that would stay the same in the iTunes store?

Remember when there wasn't even video in the iTunes store?

I think we'll see 1080p video in the store at some point.

mstrze
Aug 6, 2010, 10:09 AM
Why do you think that would stay the same in the iTunes store?

Remember when there wasn't even video in the iTunes store?

I think we'll see 1080p video in the store at some point.


Like I said in the original post it's FILE SIZE...it will take a crushingly long length of time to transfer a multiple GB movie file. Some people are having issues with the current 720p downloads being unbearably slow. The internet infrastructure for a widespread adoption of these larger-sized file transfers is not there yet.

Might it happen? Perhaps, but I would never call it a sure thing, especially with Apple being very interested in the experience of using iTunes/AppleTV. In their mind, they want you to click on the movie and be able to watch it immediately. With current HD titles, most folks have a small wait...with 1080P files ALL people will have some wait...and the greater percentage of customers may not be able to view said movie for several hours. Not a great customer experience.

musio
Aug 6, 2010, 10:20 AM
http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

If you have a 6 Mbps connection; less than 1 minute according to the offical page above...

Throw a popcorn bag in the microwave and off you go? I could live even with 5-10mins as by the time you have a wee wee and put your feet up, i'd be ok with that ready to watch my 1080p film..

According to the apple boards though http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2263386&start=0&tstart=0

there seems to be a real life problem.

I guess when Apple open up the new data/sever centre, we'll be ok. A lot of this is dependant on the iTunes servers. Look at updating iphone software - on the day of release, it takes 6h to download, any other day, 60 seconds.

EDIT: if you read the post, downloading speeds depend on how much you have on your ATV. Try deleting a few films and then giving downloading a go.

mstrze
Aug 6, 2010, 01:06 PM
I have a 6 Mbps connection and I can usually watch a 720p movie within maybe 20 seconds MAX. When I had a slower connection.....I had to let it sit overnight.

I never had any files stored on the ATV...I only stream...then again never had a download issue at 6Mbps.

So, sure...at 6Mbps, transferring a barely 1GB file is nothing, but 1080p encodes would be a minimum of what? 8GB? 10GB?

And that doesn't mean we are only taking about mutliplying your current wait time by 8-10, that is what it would take for the machine to download 2% of the file...but since the file is several times larger in all aspects...the amount of buffer needs to increase as well for playback to not be affected, so one is arguably looking at a "time until movie is viewable" of a minimum of 15-20 minutes I would say on those 6Mbps connections which NOT everyone has and an unbearable 24-36 hours on the 2Mbps connection.

That 768 Kbps speed could easily be a wait time of 5-6 days!:eek:

Again....these wait times (even the 15-20 minute ones) are not acceptible for a good user experience. It might be reasonable for you, but not for everyone.