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View Full Version : Apple is so stupid not to update the iPod mini


dferigmu
Nov 24, 2004, 09:41 PM
The iPod mini is stuck at 4 GB of storage, 8 hours battery life, and no extras. I mean, look at the competition! Is Apple really this dumb? There's only so long an overpriced, underperforming product can keep it's cool-factor.

Dell Pocket DJ
5 GB
10 hours battery life
$199

Rio Carbon
5 GB
20 hours battery life
Voice recording
$249

Virgin Player
5 GB
FM tuner
Dual headphone jacks
$249

Creative Zen Micro
5 GB
12 hours battery life
FM tuner/recorder
Voice recorder
$249

SilentPanda
Nov 24, 2004, 09:54 PM
Quick! Call Steve! Apple is stupid again today.

Maybe they should and they probably in the near future will but... right now the iPod has such name brand going for it people really don't care. If you asked almost anybody to name an MP3 player iPod would most likely be the first thing out of their mouth. iPod has almost replaced the word MP3 player just like Kleenex is what people use for tissue, Band-Aid instead of bandage, SilentPanda instead of really cool forum user... :)

I don't think they're too worried.

JeDiBoYTJ
Nov 24, 2004, 10:01 PM
I dont like Apple ever updated the iPod within a year of its release, so at the EARLIEST, the ipod mini might be updated to 5GB in January, maybe more colors? who knows

remember, when Apple first released the iPod mini, the max drive available was 4GB, so when the "copycat" ones were released, the 5GB drive was already available.

Yes, the iPod mini does need an update, but that doesnt make apple stupid. to some people, an extra gb doesnt matter, if apple is gonna make an update, its gonna make it matter.

deral
Nov 24, 2004, 10:18 PM
shucks. looks like radio lovers and people with four ears are missing out big time with the mini. that's stupid.

tech4all
Nov 24, 2004, 10:24 PM
the ipod mini might be updated to 5GB in January, maybe more colors?

Do you think upgrading iPod mini to 5GB is enough? I mean it's only 1GB. Since now the smalled iPod is 20GB, the mini could probably go up a bit more without getting to close to the iPod in GB size and still keep the $249 price tag without people thinking that they could get 5 times the space for just $50 more. If they went up to, oh i dunno.....8GB then there would be less of a gap with the 20GB iPod. I mean Im not sure if 8GB HDs are out at that size, but thats just an example.... :)

Hope that made sense.

Daveway
Nov 24, 2004, 10:59 PM
I think everyone knows that an update is postively iminent at MWSF in January. It goes with the annual update as well as a refresher. Im guessing they will stay in the same form and colors but with the addition of 5-6!gb microdrive, and improved battery life at 10 hours. It will stay the same price but a price drop may occur before the summer to $199. And of course we can't rule out the addition of a flash model at MWSF which i believe is also iminent.

Set these words in stone Steve.

bousozoku
Nov 24, 2004, 11:15 PM
Considering how poorly most FM receivers are rated, and how poorly voice recording works on most units, I fail to see how leaving these features out makes Apple stupid.

Of course, if someone is going for the "most for the least", I'm sure there are many better examples.

I would consider that organisation and ease of use (or lack of frustration) makes the iPod mini worth whatever is not included in the others.

dotnina
Nov 24, 2004, 11:24 PM
Do you think upgrading iPod mini to 5GB is enough? I mean it's only 1GB. Since now the smalled iPod is 20GB, the mini could probably go up a bit more without getting to close to the iPod in GB size and still keep the $249 price tag without people thinking that they could get 5 times the space for just $50 more. If they went up to, oh i dunno.....8GB then there would be less of a gap with the 20GB iPod. I mean Im not sure if 8GB HDs are out at that size, but thats just an example.... :)

Hope that made sense.

It's not just an issue of adding a bigger HD. In order to keep the Mini's size, you must also keep a small HD in there. To my knowledge, the most spacious HD whose dimensions match the HD in the current Mini are either 6 or 8 gigs (and I'm not sure if they're actually in any devices yet). Anyway, Apple wouldn't just start doing business with some company just because they had the 6 or 8 gig HD -- I'm sure there are strict terms that the supplier must abide by in order for Apple to do business with them.

Jovian9
Nov 25, 2004, 12:04 AM
Apple does not need FM transmitters or voice recorders in their iPods right now......they have lots of companies doing that for them. The iPod is profitable for Apple and all of these 3rd party companies.

If you think the mini is stupid......don't buy one. Buy a dull dj....I'm sure it will be great.

earthtoandy
Nov 25, 2004, 03:12 AM
FM tuner!? who the hell wants that?? Isnt that why you have an iPod? I havent listened to the radio once since i got mine and I am happier for it!

One of the reasons the ipods remain the obvious best is because they DONT add on a bunch of crap. They play music and they play it well...very well. There is always some new device that supposedly offers so muh more than the ipod and cheaper blah blah and yet the ipod continues to gain popularity. theres a reason for that.

atomiton
Nov 25, 2004, 03:42 AM
FM tuner!? who the hell wants that?? Isnt that why you have an iPod? I havent listened to the radio once since i got mine and I am happier for it!

One of the reasons the ipods remain the obvious best is because they DONT add on a bunch of crap. They play music and they play it well...very well. There is always some new device that supposedly offers so muh more than the ipod and cheaper blah blah and yet the ipod continues to gain popularity. theres a reason for that.

radios played music before ipods and even personal storage media.

there is good radio out... it is not iMusic... it's iPod... you can already do games and some PDA functionality with it... how the heck is THAT music related... that's not even audio.

radio and voice-recording are more related to iPod than Calendar integration... or photos.

It seems like people who say otherwise are just seeing everthing through apple-tinted glasses... and will only like features that they're told to like.

And if voice recording is such a bad thing because it's such a good MUSIC player, where to audio books fit in?

Oh wait... you can make money off audio-books and music...

edesignuk
Nov 25, 2004, 03:50 AM
There's little point in rolling out an update because there are other players with 1GB more storage. If the others were 10GB then maybe you'd have a point, but as it is, Apple are still on a winner.

Jo-Kun
Nov 25, 2004, 04:19 AM
maybe they'll update it to 5GB and release the iPod micro...? with CF slot thus giving people more flexibility CF cards, ok 8GB are still expensive, I know, and 16GB is on its way (or is there allready...) but if you have a micro player flash based you can buy different CF cards depending on your budget and not being limited to 4GB for a mini player...

not everyone wnats to have all his/her music with them all the time (I can't fit my library onto my 30GB, I need to buy the 60GB to achieve that...)
keep all your music in iTunes, and put your favorie music on the player...

with the CF player (or another flash-type... according to form factor) you can put different playlists on different cards, and use it like we used to do with tapes in the car or burning cd's for our discmans...

yes there are a lot of other flahbased players... but thats a segment where iPod is still missing, cheaper, more flexible...

so steve if you read this ;-)

Savage Henry
Nov 25, 2004, 04:27 AM
There's only so long an overpriced, underperforming product can keep it's cool-factor.


Yes there is, and that is when the new model comes out. But even then the old versions keep that 'cool'ness. I'm still running my 5gig 1st gen iPod and I, and many others around me, love it to bits.

There are faster cars than the one I drive, but mine's still 'cool'er.

The shirts I wear don't have the most buttons, but etc etc

The market decides ... and it has decided that Dell, Creative, Virgin and Rio blow chunks.

munkle
Nov 25, 2004, 06:06 AM
Nobody has mentioned colour screen yet...

People go crazy for the mini because of the form factor and ease of use - an extra gig or slightly longer batter life really isn't that big a deal to consumers who are attracted to the mini.

There are plenty of extras in the form of third party peripherals. And yeah Apple are dumb because we all know how well the other players are doing!:rolleyes: :p

Saying that, I reckon an update is imminent and I'm guessing it will involve slightly longer battery life, tad more memory, hopefully a colour screen and maybe replacing some of the less popular colours with newer ones.

Rufus T Firefly
Nov 25, 2004, 06:19 AM
The iPod mini is stuck at 4 GB of storage, 8 hours battery life, and no extras. I mean, look at the competition! Is Apple really this dumb? There's only so long an overpriced, underperforming product can keep it's cool-factor.

Dell Pocket DJ
5 GB
10 hours battery life
$199

Rio Carbon
5 GB
20 hours battery life
Voice recording
$249

Virgin Player
5 GB
FM tuner
Dual headphone jacks
$249

Creative Zen Micro
5 GB
12 hours battery life
FM tuner/recorder
Voice recorder
$249

Well, if you want to do voice recording to keep notes, it's better to use a mobile phone; if you do it for recording (journalist…) nothing beats a mini CD recorder; on the other hand, do these MP3 players offer Agenda and address sync ?

Rufus

dferigmu
Nov 25, 2004, 06:19 AM
Quick! Call Steve! Apple is stupid again today.

Maybe they should and they probably in the near future will but... right now the iPod has such name brand going for it people really don't care. If you asked almost anybody to name an MP3 player iPod would most likely be the first thing out of their mouth. iPod has almost replaced the word MP3 player just like Kleenex is what people use for tissue, Band-Aid instead of bandage, SilentPanda instead of really cool forum user... :)

I don't think they're too worried.

But the problem is, that won't last if Apple doesn't keep up with the competition. I say Apple should release a mini with a 6 GB drive (which I heard has been available for months), at least a 10-12 hour battery, and a $199 price tag. An update like that is simple, easy and one-ups the competition. Mini's would fly off the shelves.

mj_1903
Nov 25, 2004, 06:50 AM
Mini's would fly off the shelves.

... Mini's are already fly off the shelves. No point in changing something that is selling faster than can be made. In Jan, sure, upgrade them, but there is no point in changing the game now. Christmas has already been made for Apple.

Savage Henry
Nov 25, 2004, 07:19 AM
Mini's would fly off the shelves.

I totally agree with mj_1903, Mini's are not exactly reknowned for cluttering up the shelves are they.

The next step will be to make the mini range totally flash-based. But in Jan there will only be upgrades that smack of tasters of things to come. Keep the competition trying as hard as they can: the more consumers they bring into the market with promises of FM, colour, 24hr battery; the more consumers will compare against the iPod ... and choose .. the iPod.

dferigmu
Nov 25, 2004, 09:11 AM
... Mini's are already fly off the shelves. No point in changing something that is selling faster than can be made. In Jan, sure, upgrade them, but there is no point in changing the game now. Christmas has already been made for Apple.

Yeah but they won't when the consumer gets tired of paying more or the same and getting less. About design, other companies like Rio are catching up with stylish products.

OldManJimbo
Nov 25, 2004, 09:21 AM
Yeah boy howdy - Apple is SO dumb that their stock is trading at a near all-time high. I can't believe these idiots in Cupertino - when are they ever going to release a product that people actually WANT? :D ;) :rolleyes: :cool:

caveman_uk
Nov 25, 2004, 10:17 AM
Yeah but they won't when the consumer gets tired of paying more or the same and getting less. About design, other companies like Rio are catching up with stylish products.
I remember when the mini was announced that nearly everyone said it was

1) Too expensive
2) ...especially when the 20GB was only $50 more and better value
3) didn't have x, y or z functions.

As we all know the ipod mini has been a massive success and demand far outstrips supply. Yes, you and I know that there are other products that store more or cost less or have better batteries but Joe Consumer doesn't care. They want a mini and not some Dell/Rio/Creative wannabe. Yes, the mini will get updated but it won't be until after Christmas.

rozwell
Nov 25, 2004, 10:18 AM
i wouldnt say Apple is stupid, i would say you are now Apples bitch. its a portable music player. who buys a device which could easily be stolen, crushed, and so damn trendy anyway that costs $249 for the mini and $299 for the original, not to mention the biggest joke of the $499 photo iPod. come on people, looks aren't everything nor are brands. if its cheap, functional, and obviously disposable, get it. my iPod yes, my iPod is garbage. 3G 15gig with a battery life of 4 hours or less, is utterly useless besides as an extremely slow external firewire disc. and some 8 hours, that i never saw in the lifetime of my iPod. so in a few months it would be safe to say my now 5 month old iPod is at the end of its life as a portable mp3 player.

Inkmonkey
Nov 25, 2004, 10:25 AM
Yeah but they won't when the consumer gets tired of paying more or the same and getting less. About design, other companies like Rio are catching up with stylish products.

Great Ignorant Indris! Rio is catching up?? You have got to be kidding me. If anything, they are falling further and further behind. Just check out what some of the analysts are predicting for iPod sales over the next couple of years. Remarkable growth.

What I don't understand is why you don't buy a Rio or Dell? As you pointed out their stats are superior to the mini. And why would you want to own a "over-priced, underperforming product"?

tdhurst
Nov 25, 2004, 11:16 AM
i wouldnt say Apple is stupid, i would say you are now Apples bitch. its a portable music player. who buys a device which could easily be stolen, crushed, and so damn trendy anyway that costs $249 for the mini and $299 for the original, not to mention the biggest joke of the $499 photo iPod. come on people, looks aren't everything nor are brands. if its cheap, functional, and obviously disposable, get it. my iPod yes, my iPod is garbage. 3G 15gig with a battery life of 4 hours or less, is utterly useless besides as an extremely slow external firewire disc. and some 8 hours, that i never saw in the lifetime of my iPod. so in a few months it would be safe to say my now 5 month old iPod is at the end of its life as a portable mp3 player.

Uh, this doesn't make a whole lotta sense. And yes, that iPod photo is a huge joke, no one is buying those....
Do you seriously believe that looks and brands are not everything to most consumers? Ever taken any kind of business or marketing class?

dferigmu
Nov 25, 2004, 11:17 AM
Great Ignorant Indris! Rio is catching up?? You have got to be kidding me. If anything, they are falling further and further behind. Just check out what some of the analysts are predicting for iPod sales over the next couple of years. Remarkable growth.

What I don't understand is why you don't buy a Rio or Dell? As you pointed out their stats are superior to the mini. And why would you want to own a "over-priced, underperforming product"?

The only reason iPod and iPod mini are doing so well is because they're trendy. As we all know, trends don't last forever. Apple needs to work on making their products better than the competition, not just making them look pretty. Stop being a blind Apple fanboy. True mac fans will admit their company's mistakes.

wrldwzrd89
Nov 25, 2004, 11:43 AM
The only reason iPod and iPod mini are doing so well is because they're trendy. As we all know, trends don't last forever. Apple needs to work on making their products better than the competition, not just making them look pretty. Stop being a blind Apple fanboy. True mac fans will admit their company's mistakes.
Here's my opinion on the matter:

Apple will update the iPod mini on the same time-cycle as the regular iPod; that is, however much time elapsed between the introduction of the 3G iPod and the iPod mini will be how much time elapses between the introduction of the 4G iPod and the 2G iPod mini. Also, as far as Apple's concerned, the 2G iPod mini must have enough things better about it to make people buy one instead of a used 1G iPod mini - Apple probably doesn't think that we've reached that point yet. Hopefully, both come at the same time, and Apple releases the 2G iPod mini right when the rumor sites thought it would.

tdhurst
Nov 25, 2004, 12:15 PM
The only reason iPod and iPod mini are doing so well is because they're trendy. As we all know, trends don't last forever. Apple needs to work on making their products better than the competition, not just making them look pretty. Stop being a blind Apple fanboy. True mac fans will admit their company's mistakes.

I agree, but the average update time is about a year and minis are flying off the shelves still. Is that a mistake? The late arriving iMac G5 was a mistake, the 30" distribution issues were mistakes, but not wuickly updating one of the hottest techie products ever? Um....

Inkmonkey
Nov 25, 2004, 01:00 PM
The only reason iPod and iPod mini are doing so well is because they're trendy. As we all know, trends don't last forever. Apple needs to work on making their products better than the competition, not just making them look pretty. Stop being a blind Apple fanboy. True mac fans will admit their company's mistakes.

Great Business Bernhardi Monkeys! Apple has made their fair share of mistakes throughout the years. Just take a look at their computer marketshare.
But not updating the mini because dferigmu wants it updated isn't necessarily one of those mistakes. You need to think about these decisions from a business and marketing standpoint. Not from a personal standpoint.
Many before me have eloquently outlined the business reasons that drive the mini not having been updated as of yet.

rozwell
Nov 25, 2004, 01:55 PM
Uh, this doesn't make a whole lotta sense. And yes, that iPod photo is a huge joke, no one is buying those....
Do you seriously believe that looks and brands are not everything to most consumers? Ever taken any kind of business or marketing class?
to most consumers yes, but to people who know what they are buying and actually understand it it doesn't matter, but to apple, the mindless masses will put them on top again, unless they ******* up... again.

mklos
Nov 25, 2004, 03:16 PM
The iPod mini is stuck at 4 GB of storage, 8 hours battery life, and no extras. I mean, look at the competition! Is Apple really this dumb? There's only so long an overpriced, underperforming product can keep it's cool-factor.

Dell Pocket DJ
5 GB
10 hours battery life
$199

Rio Carbon
5 GB
20 hours battery life
Voice recording
$249

Virgin Player
5 GB
FM tuner
Dual headphone jacks
$249

Creative Zen Micro
5 GB
12 hours battery life
FM tuner/recorder
Voice recorder
$249

Funny thing is.....Its the top selling item on the Apple Online Store. Hmmm....Who's stupid now???? If it ain't broke, don't fix it! ;)

Inkmonkey
Nov 25, 2004, 03:58 PM
to most consumers yes, but to people who know what they are buying and actually understand it it doesn't matter, but to apple, the mindless masses will put them on top again, unless they ******* up... again.

Great Marketing Macaques! So if you own a business and want to make the most revenue possible who are you going to try and sell to? The couple hundred geeks who want an FM radio, mike, and GPS in the iPod mini or the millions ("mindless masses") who just want the cool item du jour?

mj_1903
Nov 25, 2004, 04:09 PM
The only reason iPod and iPod mini are doing so well is because they're trendy. As we all know, trends don't last forever. Apple needs to work on making their products better than the competition, not just making them look pretty. Stop being a blind Apple fanboy. True mac fans will admit their company's mistakes.

I wouldn't say that exactly. Sure, trend has something to do with it, but a lot of the sales are because the iPod and iPod mini are the best on the market, not only in the player but in the integration with the computer, the ease of use and all the other small things that make Apple products great.

Yes Creative has a competitor that has more bells and whistles, but is it easier to use? Does it work with one of the best jukeboxes around? Does the interface on the device work?

More often than not a competitor will get one of those questions right and that is all. The iPod gets all of them right.

After those facts you have of course the iPod economy. There are so many people with vested interests in the iPod, like myself, that it is simply not possible for it not to be a success. Just compare the number of peripherals and cases for the Creative Zen to any of the iPod's.

Ugg
Nov 25, 2004, 04:21 PM
The only reason iPod and iPod mini are doing so well is because they're trendy. As we all know, trends don't last forever. Apple needs to work on making their products better than the competition, not just making them look pretty. Stop being a blind Apple fanboy. True mac fans will admit their company's mistakes.

I'm not sure that Apple is currently making any mistakes. The mini will be updated in the near future of that there is no doubt. The fact that the second largest selling hard drive based mp3 player is the HP iPod says quite a bit about the competition. iTMS is simply the best source for online music and it plays with few or no problems on all iPods with the least restrictive licensing of any music service.

Will prices come down? Well, eventually but due to the economies of scale in manufacturing they are probably making more per unit than any other maker. As long as their market share remains above 50% they would be stupid to cut the price. Do they need an entry level flash based player? Probably, but their profits will be razor thin so it makes sense for them to hold off for as long as possible.

I disagree with your trendiness assertion. The iPod works and works well, could it be improved, certainly but can't all things? The iPod and the iTMS are successful simply because they are the best available. Should another player and service start to dominate, then and only then would Apple be stupid not to lower prices or radically change their business model. Take a look at any financial analysis of Apple over the last couple of months, nobody, but nobody thinks Apple is stupid.

Some people wouldn't know a good thing even if it slapped them in the face.

dongmin
Nov 25, 2004, 08:05 PM
$199 minis are around the corner. Just not before MWSF. Why would Apple bother when they're barely keeping with demand at $249???

$149 flash ipods should make their debut sometime next year, but I wouldn't bet on it for MWSF. Maybe sometime in the summer, before the back-to-school season.

Some analysts are expecting 13 million plus ipods to be sold next year. Apple will have sold over 20 million ipods over 2+ years at an average price of $300. (How does it compare to the Playstatio 2?) I'd say A LOT of people are 'Apple's bitches.' More than 10% of the US population? Kind of scary to think about.

i would say you are now Apples bitch. its a portable music player. who buys a device which could easily be stolen, crushed, and so damn trendy anyway that costs $249 for the mini and $299 for the original, not to mention the biggest joke of the $499 photo iPod. come on people, looks aren't everything nor are brands.