ATI 5770 vs 5870

[dissolve]

Seen this discussion scattered throughout threads but I wanted to ask it directly here. What uses could really take advantage of the 5870? I've seen gaming benchmarks (5870 blows the 5770 away) but not much else. Specifically, I'm primarily using Aperture and some light gaming. But I'd love to hear why many of you are opting for the 5870.

[snouter]

The 5770 is much better than some of Apple's previous offerings.

I do not game on Macs, but I've never had any trouble with Apple's middle of the road video card options, even do some medium level Cinema 4d work.

So, you really would not NEED the 5870 unless you did plan to game a lot.

I'm thinking about skipping the video card upgrade to help offset the cost of the six-core. Of course, if I'm going to spend that much, I should prolly get the video card. heh.

[skiffx]

Seen this discussion scattered throughout threads but I wanted to ask it directly here. What uses could really take advantage of the 5870? I've seen gaming benchmarks (5870 blows the 5770 away) but not much else. Specifically, I'm primarily using Aperture and some light gaming. But I'd love to hear why many of you are opting for the 5870.

If you dont game, you might as well save money on the electricity bill as well...5770 is a lot less power hungry than 5870.

However, if you arent getting an entry level system, and want it to last, might as well go for 5870 as it's only 200$ more.

[dissolve]

Thanks for the input. Think I'll stick with the 5770 and upgrade in a couple years. As long as Aperture remains quick, it should be more than enough.

[cohen777]

Both cards are very good. But, more power is important with the GPU, especially with Apple offloading a lot of normal cpu functions to the gpu. For an extra $200 it is a no brainer.

[VirtualRain]

It would be nice if someone came up with an Aperture benchmark and ran it against a variety of GPU's.

Anyway, what I've read elsewhere is that Aperture uses OpenGL (not OpenCL) on the GPU and also utilizes ALOT of VRAM.

Given that both the 5770 and 5870 have the same 1GB of VRAM, that provides no basis for a decision, but I think the fact that the 5870 has twice the memory bandwidth is a key consideration. Overall, the 5870 can perform twice the teraflops of the 5770 which has to matter as well.

I think I'm going to replace my dual GT120's with the 5870 when the new 27" displays become available and do it all in one transaction.

[soheilzahedi]

On a related note, do either of these 2 cards work in a MacPro 1,1?

thanks!
s.

[strausd]

On a related note, do either of these 2 cards work in a MacPro 1,1?

thanks!
s.

According to Apple no, but when people can get their hands on them they will try them out and then we will know for sure.

[cohen777]

Check out barefeats.com to see how the video card makes a big difference in non-game software.

[skiffx]

It would be nice if someone came up with an Aperture benchmark and ran it against a variety of GPU's.

Anyway, what I've read elsewhere is that Aperture uses OpenGL (not OpenCL) on the GPU and also utilizes ALOT of VRAM.

Given that both the 5770 and 5870 have the same 1GB of VRAM, that provides no basis for a decision, but I think the fact that the 5870 has twice the memory bandwidth is a key consideration. Overall, the 5870 can perform twice the teraflops of the 5770 which has to matter as well.

I think I'm going to replace my dual GT120's with the 5870 when the new 27" displays become available and do it all in one transaction.

Hey sorry guys for being a little off topic, but IM planning on getting the 5870 plus a gt120 to drive 2 extra monitors, I was wondering how loud are the fans on those gt120 (if you only would have one of them running lets suppose)? Are they audible in a bedroom at night?

[mattbatt]

Here is a good article.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2841

So, how many real world apps will OpenCL effect? Even with the crippled architecture of FCP, do you think we will see better real time results in the timeline or what?

A few years ago a cool gaming computer seemed neat, but now I just want to have a good, long lasting production suite to render video and process images - and keep up with my design stuff (desktop graphic design has never really pushed beyond 2 cores sadly).

[VirtualRain]

Hey sorry guys for being a little off topic, but IM planning on getting the 5870 plus a gt120 to drive 2 extra monitors, I was wondering how loud are the fans on those gt120 (if you only would have one of them running lets suppose)? Are they audible in a bedroom at night?

The fans on the GT120 and in the Mac Pro in general, are completely inaudible. I use to have a 4870 and the fan on that was only audible at startup then it would ramp down to an inaudible volume.

[skiffx]

The fans on the GT120 and in the Mac Pro in general, are completely inaudible. I use to have a 4870 and the fan on that was only audible at startup then it would ramp down to an inaudible volume.

thanks:)

[vonMarion]

I was actually wondering this 5770 vs 5870 thing myself.

I bought a new Mac Pro online on the 9th, and due to my budget, I had to choose between upgrading the graphics card up to the 5870 or upgrading the processor from a 2.8 to a 3.2 Ghz quad.

I chose the 3.2 quad, but am still curious if this'll come in more handy than if I had used the money towards the 5870. Could someone give me their thoughts?

[skiffx]

I was actually wondering this 5770 vs 5870 thing myself.

I bought a new Mac Pro online on the 9th, and due to my budget, I had to choose between upgrading the graphics card up to the 5870 or upgrading the processor from a 2.8 to a 3.2 Ghz quad.

I chose the 3.2 quad, but am still curious if this'll come in more handy than if I had used the money towards the 5870. Could someone give me their thoughts?

If you dont game you made a right choice. Even if you do game, 5770 should be enough for the next year or so, after which you can always upgrade the card...Or even get a much cheaper, equivalent PC version and flash it to work with your MP.

[dissolve]

Not sure why I'm stressing so much over this decision...it's only $180 with the edu discount! Leaning back towards the 5870 so that I can try to squeeze maybe an extra year out of it over the 5770. I think power consumption is my only hangup (that, and buying something I probably don't need :o )

Thanks for all the input guys

EDIT: Wow, I suck at searching. Two other threads on the same topic. Linked below in case anyone else missed them.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=989281
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=989286

[dissolve]

Went with the 5870. Can't really say why, but very excited :D

[jakke]

Is it possible to instal two 5870 cards in stead of two 5770 cards?

thx

[skiffx]

Is it possible to instal two 5870 cards in stead of two 5770 cards?

thx

Why would you need 2 5870s? I actually went with 5870 + gt120 because I have 4 monitors to drive, and 5870 will handle the gaming in windows.

In any case, it may be possible with a power splitter to power up the 2nd 5870 I suppose, but nobody will know for sure until people will start getting these new MPs.

[jakke]

I want to be able to connect my 5 displays to it and still keep performance up.

[Vylen]

i dont think there's enough power cables to run 2x5870's... the 5770 only needs 1 cable and the 5870 needs 2. i.e. i think there's only 2 cables to power the video cards.

and i don't know if a cable splitter will be sufficient...

[skiffx]

I want to be able to connect my 5 displays to it and still keep performance up.

Not 100% but isnt there only one 16x PCIe lane that will be occupied by 5870? Also there is no crossfire support for OSX, so sticking something like a gt120 to drive extra monitors seems like a better choice. It is also powerful enough not to have any issues whatsoever.

Edit: Actually there are 2 16x PCIe slots so I stand corrected. Still however, there is little point at this moment to run 2 5870 just to power up extra displays.

[goMac]

So, how many real world apps will OpenCL effect? Even with the crippled architecture of FCP, do you think we will see better real time results in the timeline or what?

A few years ago a cool gaming computer seemed neat, but now I just want to have a good, long lasting production suite to render video and process images - and keep up with my design stuff (desktop graphic design has never really pushed beyond 2 cores sadly).

Apps have to be rewritten to use OpenCL anyway, so FCP's antiquated architecture isn't really relevant...

I've heard FCP is getting a rewrite, it's possible they'll use OpenCL. Adobe is certainly using a lot of CUDA in Premiere.

FCP certainly does use a lot of OpenGL though, so you can't go wrong with getting a good GPU. Motion is also heavily OpenGL dependent. I know a lot of people, however, who don't bother with OpenGL under After Effects.

Not sure why you say desktop graphic design doesn't require more than two cores. If anything, video and imagery makes the BEST use of multiple cores, more than any other sort of software. Photoshop, however, sucks at using multiple cores, but that has more to do with Adobe having their heads up their asses rather than a failure of multicore computing.

[Tutor]

Clean up

[skiffx]

Using a splitter will likely damage your computer's power circuitry. I'm running an ATI 4890 and a Fermi 480 in my 2009 Mac Pro using this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104054 in the dvd expansion bay to supply ample power. With this solution you can have up to 3 video cards requiring up to six power cables in a Mac Pro so long as combined maximum power consumption for all four PCIe slots does not exceed 300 W. Actually, this power supply works better with pre-2009 machines with a 4-pin molex to trigger it.

Oh very nice, I havent even thought about that option. Thanks for sharing.

Also out of curiosity does anyone know the power rating on the '09 or '10 MP's PSU?

[Tutor]

Clean up

[skiffx]

I believe its either 950 or 1000 watts.

Strange, that looks like more than enough to power a 3 way SLI/CF configuration. Maybe apple didnt want to order a modified PSU with extra cables to power up more than 1 5870 than uses 2 power connectors.

[sirnh]

I have been thinking that each PCI-E slot is supplied with 75w of power. There are 3 more slots to use on the Mac Pro, so it would be great if someone created a PCI-E card that did nothing more than provide another 6-pin PEG connector to drive another 5770. You could probably throw on SATA and USB 3.0 onto the same card and have enough wattage to drive the 5770.

[barefeats]

On a related note, do either of these 2 cards work in a MacPro 1,1?
.

Yes. Both 5770 and 5870 work on all Mac Pros. What is not certain is whether Apple will restrict sales of kits to owners of 2009 and 2010 models only.

The beauty of the 5770 is that it is close to the 4870 in performance but requires only one power feed. And if you are a Boot Camp gamer, two of them can be CrossFired -- assuming the jumper connector is not covered.

[Topper]

And if you are a Boot Camp gamer, two of them can be CrossFired -- assuming the jumper connector is not covered.

Can the psu of the 2008 Mac Pro handle two 5870s?

[crw]

What I would really like to do is to put two 5870s in the MP. One would be used for OS X but I would like to CrossFire the two under Windows for gaming. To do this we would need to understand the following:

Power: How can power be supplied to two 5870s? Is there a way to get the power from the MP PSU (it seems beefy enough)? Another alternative is to use an auxillary PSU for one of the 5870s -- like the 5.25" drive-bay PSU at NewEgg.
CrossFire: Will the Apple-supplied 5870s physically support CrossFire?
OS X Support: How will OS X handle two 5870s with the CrossFire connected? I think it is likely that it will just see them as two individual cards and ignore the CrossFire cable.


Thoughts?

[jewett18]

I am interested in purchasing either a 5770 or a 5870 but the apple prices are insane

plus I would rather have 2 dvi ports then a display port

any suggestions of what specific card to get?
thanks
Jamie

[mattbatt]

Apps have to be rewritten to use OpenCL anyway, so FCP's antiquated architecture isn't really relevant...

I've heard FCP is getting a rewrite, it's possible they'll use OpenCL. Adobe is certainly using a lot of CUDA in Premiere.

FCP certainly does use a lot of OpenGL though, so you can't go wrong with getting a good GPU. Motion is also heavily OpenGL dependent. I know a lot of people, however, who don't bother with OpenGL under After Effects.

Not sure why you say desktop graphic design doesn't require more than two cores. If anything, video and imagery makes the BEST use of multiple cores, more than any other sort of software. Photoshop, however, sucks at using multiple cores, but that has more to do with Adobe having their heads up their asses rather than a failure of multicore computing.

Thanks, here is hoping to a great re-write of FCP!

I said that desktop - meaning print - design doesn't use much more than two cores because we are talking about: InDesign, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and Photoshop.

When I do video, yes, more cores are used. And processing RAW files, sure, but it is still very bad technology. Like Digillyd was saying, for batch RAWS, would it be too hard for the software to tell each core to grab a specific image file?

Instead they bounce around working on one image at the same time, not doing too much work.

[skiffx]

What I would really like to do is to put two 5870s in the MP. One would be used for OS X but I would like to CrossFire the two under Windows for gaming. To do this we would need to understand the following:

Power: How can power be supplied to two 5870s? Is there a way to get the power from the MP PSU (it seems beefy enough)? Another alternative is to use an auxillary PSU for one of the 5870s -- like the 5.25" drive-bay PSU at NewEgg.
CrossFire: Will the Apple-supplied 5870s physically support CrossFire?
OS X Support: How will OS X handle two 5870s with the CrossFire connected? I think it is likely that it will just see them as two individual cards and ignore the CrossFire cable.


Thoughts?

You will have all these answers when people start getting their macs and start playing around with them. ATM nobody can answer for sure.