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MacBytes
Nov 28, 2004, 12:47 PM
Category: Humor
Link: A Mac Thanksgiving: Little Things to be Grateful For (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20041128134737)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

wdlove
Nov 28, 2004, 06:59 PM
Very nice article. Yes, I'm thankful.

wrldwzrd89
Nov 29, 2004, 04:46 AM
Very nice article. Yes, I'm thankful.
I couldn't agree more, wdlove. I must make a special mention for Command+Q - I use it all the time on my Mac, but I always mouse over to the close button on Windows since the keyboard shortcut isn't intuitive.

shamino
Nov 29, 2004, 01:35 PM
Just one little nit.

Alt-F4 on Windows is not an "application-quit" keystroke. It is a "close current window" keystroke (much like Command-W is for most Mac apps.)

The fact that most Windows apps quit when the last document window is closed (vs. most Mac apps that require an explicit quit command) is entirely beside the point.

wrldwzrd89
Nov 29, 2004, 01:39 PM
Just one little nit.

Alt-F4 on Windows is not an "application-quit" keystroke. It is a "close current window" keystroke (much like Command-W is for most Mac apps.)

The fact that most Windows apps quit when the last document window is closed (vs. most Mac apps that require an explicit quit command) is entirely beside the point.
Alt+F4 should be banished in favor of Control+W, the Windows equivalent of the Mac keyboard shortcut. The Exit command on the File menu of most Windows apps should have an explicit keyboard shortcut defined for it, like Control+E or Control+Q. That way, there's a simple way to close all windows and quit the application.

shamino
Nov 29, 2004, 02:54 PM
Alt+F4 should be banished in favor of Control+W, the Windows equivalent of the Mac keyboard shortcut. The Exit command on the File menu of most Windows apps should have an explicit keyboard shortcut defined for it, like Control+E or Control+Q. That way, there's a simple way to close all windows and quit the application.
Alt-F4 won't ever go away. It's implemented by the windowing subsystem itself, not by any application. It exists because it existed all the way back in Windows 1.0 (and TopView before that) and some things simply never expire.

(FWIW, the ancient copy/cut/paste keystrokes - ctrl-ins/shift-del/shift-ins - still exist on Windows as well. Probably for the same reason.)

As for Windows apps supporting Ctrl-W and Ctrl-Q, many do, but it's an application feature, not a system feature. Unfortunately, its support is inconsistent.

For instance, Ctrl-W is not on the menu-bar for Microsoft Word, although it does work. But it closes a document, not a window. So it leaves you with a no-document window if you use it when only one document is open.

Ctrl-Q use is even more sporadic. For instance, Mozilla and Thunderbird support it, but Firefox does not. Microsoft's apps definitely do not. You must either close all windows or do an explicit File->Exit. But since menubars are keyboard accessible (Alt-F X, in this case), it's not too bad.

I don't think Windows apps need to follow the Mac paradigm or vice versa, but all apps on a single platform should behave the same as each other. In the Mac world, this is usually true. In the Windows world, it generally is not. (And in the Unix/Linux world, it's even worse - every window manager has its own idea of what every app should do, and there are some radical differences between them.)

shamino
Nov 29, 2004, 02:55 PM

wrldwzrd89
Nov 29, 2004, 02:59 PM
Alt-F4 won't ever go away. It's implemented by the windowing subsystem itself, not by any application. It exists because it existed all the way back in Windows 1.0 (and TopView before that) and some things simply never expire.

(FWIW, the ancient copy/cut/paste keystrokes - ctrl-ins/shift-del/shift-ins - still exist on Windows as well. Probably for the same reason.)

As for Windows apps supporting Ctrl-W and Ctrl-Q, many do, but it's an application feature, not a system feature. Unfortunately, its support is inconsistent.

For instance, Ctrl-W is not on the menu-bar for Microsoft Word, although it does work. But it closes a document, not a window. So it leaves you with a no-document window if you use it when only one document is open.

Ctrl-Q use is even more sporadic. For instance, Mozilla and Thunderbird support it, but Firefox does not. Microsoft's apps definitely do not. You must either close all windows or do an explicit File->Exit. But since menubars are keyboard accessible (Alt-F X, in this case), it's not too bad.

I don't think Windows apps need tofollow the Mac paradigm or vice versa, but all apps on a single platform should behave the same as each other. In the Mac world, this is usually true. In the Windows world, it generally is not. (And in the Unix/Linux world, it's even worse - every window manager has its own idea of what every app should do, and there are some radical differences between them.)
I agree with you there. Windows definitely suffers from a lack of consistency. That doesn't mean the Mac OS is completely consistent either, but it does do a much better job than Windows, at least as far as keyboard shortcuts are concerned. Some developers, for some inexplicable reason, override the default location for Preferences in Mac OS X, which is something that bugs me to no end, especially if there's no good reason for it. Richard Bannister (http://www.bannister.org/software/) is especially bad about this.