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R94N
Aug 13, 2010, 03:18 AM
Browsing through the BBC News site and it caught my attention - I apologise if there are already threads about this, but I thought it would make an interesting discussion.

News article link - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230

iJohnHenry
Aug 13, 2010, 07:13 AM
I approve.

For the rich, puny fines are just a temporary permit to speed.

Plus they tie-up law enforcement resources and the courts.

Make it hurt 'till they cry. :p

R94N
Aug 13, 2010, 07:22 AM
I approve.

For the rich, puny fines are just a temporary permit to speed.

Plus they tie-up law enforcement resources and the courts.

Make it hurt 'till they cry. :p

I completely agree. They deserved it, imo. I just thought it was notable for the high amount.

iJohnHenry
Aug 13, 2010, 07:31 AM
I completely agree. They deserved it, imo. I just thought it was notable for the high amount.

They do that here and the car is liable to be ceased and crushed. :D

leomac08
Aug 13, 2010, 10:24 AM
i thought the speedlimit in most european countries are like 100MPH-200MPH....:D:rolleyes:

what's the speedlimit of the autobahn?

lewis82
Aug 13, 2010, 11:06 AM
what's the speedlimit of the autobahn?

In Germany, none. In Austria, 80 mph, and in Switzerland, 75 mph.

Mousse
Aug 13, 2010, 12:03 PM
Under Swiss law, the level of fine is determined by the wealth of the driver and the speed recorded.

Man, we need a law like that in the US.:) I'd probably pay $5 for speeding then.:o

microcolt
Aug 13, 2010, 12:06 PM
In Germany, none. In Austria, 80 mph, and in Switzerland, 75 mph.

That doesn't sound much like anything different from a typical interstate almost.

kernkraft
Aug 13, 2010, 12:21 PM
In Germany, none. In Austria, 80 mph, and in Switzerland, 75 mph.

That doesn't sound much like anything different from a typical interstate almost.

Although large part of Germany's Autobahn system has no speed limit, there is a recommended speed of 130 km/h. Also, if a policeman thinks that you are imposing a risk by driving faster than ideal, they can stop you. Furthermore, if you are involved in an accident that is not your fault, by driving more than 130 km/h might make you share legal responsibility. Sometimes, there are speed restrictions due to dangerous bits, bridges and road works.

But they never stopped me from driving at over 200 km/h in the past. Germany is large, but the distance between Bonn and Frankfurt can be seriously shredded with high speed. (Fuel consumption in most cars suddenly jumps at the speed of 130 km/h and with straight six BMWs, I found that there is another sudden jump at around 180-190km/h, so it's not particularly economical. Also, at that speed, anything can happen to the tyres and slowing down would take ages.) Then a lunch outside Frankfurt, a bit of roadworks and off to Austria through Passau. I love driving in Germany, that's where our cars feel at home (for very good reasons).

Jaro65
Aug 13, 2010, 02:21 PM
Man, we need a law like that in the US.:) I'd probably pay $5 for speeding then.:o

I agree with the Swiss approach. Wish we had that here in the US.

Chip NoVaMac
Aug 14, 2010, 12:18 AM
I agree with the Swiss approach. Wish we had that here in the US.

+1

Too many folks here in the US that have the money think the traffic laws are for others. Current state of fines in many states here make it easy to pay them off or hire attorneys to get them off. :mad:

appleguy123
Aug 14, 2010, 01:20 AM
Why do they base their tickets on the wealth of the driver? What a stupid thing to do. Glad that that would never fly in the States.

lbro
Aug 14, 2010, 01:22 AM
Why do they base their tickets on the wealth of the driver? What a stupid thing to do. Glad that that would never fly in the States.

A $200 dollar speeding ticket is pocket change to a millionaire.

appleguy123
Aug 14, 2010, 01:27 AM
A $200 dollar speeding ticket is pocket change to a millionaire.
It doesn't matter. It's not a just fee. The same fee should be charged for all. We don't give fat people more food for free at restaurants, so we should charge rich people more fees. Just seems wrong.

Chip NoVaMac
Aug 14, 2010, 01:43 AM
It doesn't matter. It's not a just fee. The same fee should be charged for all. We don't give fat people more food for free at restaurants, so we should charge rich people more fees. Just seems wrong.

It is NOT a fee... but a FINE for doing wrong - as such it is to be a deterrence from doing it in the first place. If $200 means not paying bills for the likes of me, then I obey the law. For someone that drops $200 for lunch by themselves. then the fine means nothing to them.

Bonch
Aug 14, 2010, 03:34 AM
I wonder if they'd let Bill Gates off with a warning, the same as a poor single mom. Hmmm, the police station could use a new roof...

lag1090
Aug 14, 2010, 08:16 AM
Record 1m fine for speeding driver

The article actually states that the fine was $1m, not 1m. Still a rather large fine, but not quite as large as the thread title would suggest.

ethical
Aug 14, 2010, 08:40 AM
What fine do you think this guy's gonna get?
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/awesome-funny-photos-20.jpg

Eraserhead
Aug 14, 2010, 10:22 AM
It is NOT a fee... but a FINE for doing wrong - as such it is to be a deterrence from doing it in the first place. If $200 means not paying bills for the likes of me, then I obey the law. For someone that drops $200 for lunch by themselves. then the fine means nothing to them.

Quite.

kernkraft
Aug 14, 2010, 10:30 AM
What fine do you think this guy's gonna get?
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/awesome-funny-photos-20.jpg

But why did he even stop? If I was a superhero (or a baddie with superficial abilities), I would get a Superman or Spiderman costume and I wouldn't stop for anybody. Not even for Superman or Spiderman. Especially not for them.

iJohnHenry
Aug 14, 2010, 11:22 AM
It doesn't matter. It's not a just fee. The same fee should be charged for all. We don't give fat people more food for free at restaurants, so we should charge rich people more fees. Just seems wrong.

Some day, you gonna have to explain the logic in that for me.

But on the face of it, I would suggest you pay for a plate of food, assuming prix fixes/ la carte.

If you want more you order 2 meals. :confused:

If it's a buffet they would yell "Hey, you, fat boy, you no come here no more!!!"

Lord Blackadder
Aug 14, 2010, 12:22 PM
Why do they base their tickets on the wealth of the driver? What a stupid thing to do. Glad that that would never fly in the States.

Speeding tickets are supposed to be fines, not fees. They are intended to be punitive, not profit-seeking - at least officially. However, (and I may just be cynical here) I personally belive that most speeding tickets are targeted more as revenue generators for police departments and municipalities than deterrents.

There are plenty of examples of police departments who set quotas on traffic tickets, or pull people over for just a few miles an hour over just to make money. There is the case of New Rome, Ohio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio) - a notorious speed trap where the police issued tickets and channeled most of the revenue back to themselves (village population = 60. Police staff = 14.). These misdoings along with a few other things led to the village being dissolved.

As for this Swiss case, the overriding factor for me is that guy guy was finied in Switzerland...and while everyone does business with the Swiss, nobody really likes them. So I side with our Swedish driver on this one. That million Euro fine will probably go back into equipping police ot issue more tickets. :rolleyes:

Some day, you gonna have to explain the logic in that for me.

The reason that speeding tickets are not just fees is very clear: they are violations of the law. If you speed enough times, or speed far enough over the limit, you can be charged with a more serious offence. Also, at least in the US, you are assigned points on your license every time you are ticketed. If you accumulate enough points, your license is suspended or (in extreme cases) revoked. So it's not just a case of paying the money and going about your business.

ayeying
Aug 16, 2010, 01:17 AM
Cops should give themselves a speeding ticket as well. It's unjustifiable on how many cops I see taking off at WOT, hitting 70 mph down my street that's a 25 mph zone and just later pull into a coffee shop like nothing.

weckart
Aug 16, 2010, 05:56 AM
Cops should give themselves a speeding ticket as well. It's unjustifiable on how many cops I see taking off at WOT, hitting 70 mph down my street that's a 25 mph zone and just later pull into a coffee shop like nothing.

Simple answer to that - either report them for abuse of office, or, if you don't trust your local force, put it up on YouTube. That should provoke some reaction.

iJohnHenry
Aug 16, 2010, 09:00 AM
Cops should give themselves a speeding ticket as well. It's unjustifiable on how many cops I see taking off at WOT, hitting 70 mph down my street that's a 25 mph zone and just later pull into a coffee shop like nothing.

Simple answer to that - either report them for abuse of office, or, if you don't trust your local force, put it up on YouTube. That should provoke some reaction.

Do you both like missing your coffee breaks??

Mousse
Aug 16, 2010, 12:13 PM
Simple answer to that - either report them for abuse of office, or, if you don't trust your local force, put it up on YouTube. That should provoke some reaction.

Don't do that if you live in Illinois, Massachusetts, and Maryland (http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/are-cameras-the-new-guns/#). That will land you in prison if you're lucky. If not you'll be the next Rodney King.

R94N
Aug 16, 2010, 04:10 PM
The article actually states that the fine was $1m, not €1m. Still a rather large fine, but not quite as large as the thread title would suggest.

Oops, sorry :( I didn't really pay attention to the title and so I must've just though Swiss = Europe = €.

Lord Blackadder
Aug 16, 2010, 04:46 PM
Cops should give themselves a speeding ticket as well. It's unjustifiable on how many cops I see taking off at WOT, hitting 70 mph down my street that's a 25 mph zone and just later pull into a coffee shop like nothing.

There's a speed trap on my street. The speed limit on the street is 35mph, but when the cops nab somebody they'll peel out from their hiding spot and drive flat-out till they catch up with the speeder. I'd estimate that they sometimes hit 60-70mph. They certainly exceed 50mph. There's no excuse for that when all you're doing is going after a speeding ticket in a residential area. It's reckless. Residents have complained, and sometimes they tone it down for a while but they eventually get back into the habit. I feel like it's only a matter of time before it causes an accident.

As an aside, here in the USA it's not all that uncommon for State Troopers or Highway Patrol officers to issue tickets to local police they catch driving recklessly (or breaking any other law for that matter). On the one hand that's a good thing, but the staties themselves have a reputation for being cowboys who'd pull their own mother over.

iJohnHenry
Aug 16, 2010, 05:41 PM
On the one hand that's a good thing, but the staties themselves have a reputation for being cowboys who'd pull their own mother over.

And in the 2 or 3 extra minutes that car could kill a child.

Please give some credit to police officers being professional drivers, and not your run of the mill hacks.

Lord Blackadder
Aug 16, 2010, 06:04 PM
Please give some credit to police officers being professional drivers, and not your run of the mill hacks.

My point was, if they are nabbing people for driving 45 in a 35 (ostensibly because it is dangerous), isn't it counterproductive to accelerate flat-out up to 50+ mph to go get them?

Most are "professional" drivers. Some are not. They have a tough job to do, but it's only fair to hold them to a higher standard of behavior.

lag1090
Aug 16, 2010, 08:17 PM
Oops, sorry :( I didn't really pay attention to the title and so I must've just though Swiss = Europe = .

Switzerland has its own currency, the Swiss Franc.

It's not part of the Eurozone.

ayeying
Aug 16, 2010, 11:16 PM
And in the 2 or 3 extra minutes that car could kill a child.

Please give some credit to police officers being professional drivers, and not your run of the mill hacks.

I give credit for police officers protecting the citizens, not when they are creating a danger. No matter how "Professional" of a driver you are, it is reckless for excessive speeding down a residential area. I see many kids and even babies play around in their front yards and occasionally they'll accidentally throw a ball onto the street. How do you think a "Professional" driver would react to that situation? The answer, the same as any other driver. There's no way to brake in time.

My point was, if they are nabbing people for driving 45 in a 35 (ostensibly because it is dangerous), isn't it counterproductive to accelerate flat-out up to 50+ mph to go get them?

Most are "professional" drivers. Some are not. They have a tough job to do, but it's only fair to hold them to a higher standard of behavior.

So far, only the CHP (Here in California) has defensive driving training. The regular city and county officers only have basic driving training, almost similar to what everyone else gets with a bit more evasive techniques.

I've personally done high performance driving and racing courses before. I know what is safe and what is not, similar to a cop's training. And no where, ever, in a million years, is driving 50+ mph in a residential area, in the afternoon, when kids are playing outside, considered safe.

R94N
Aug 18, 2010, 05:34 AM
Switzerland has its own currency, the Swiss Franc.

It's not part of the Eurozone.

Double fail for me....I would rename the thread but I can't now.

QuantumLo0p
Aug 18, 2010, 09:44 AM
Fines are used for generating revenue. Progressive fines, progressive taxation or progressive anything is a completely horrible idea. It always leads to entitlements on the low end which is nothing more than a sugar coated way to identify bottom-up greed.
:D

VideoFreek
Aug 18, 2010, 05:05 PM
I like the way the Germans do it. The monetary amounts of speeding fines are IMO fairly tame, but what puts teeth in the law is license suspensions, which are given for violations starting at 31kph over the posted limit in built-up areas (or 41kph over on highways), and range from 1-3 months duration. A pretty powerful deterent, and one that is used liberally--I know quite a few people here who've lost their license for at least a month!

chrmjenkins
Aug 18, 2010, 05:15 PM
I like the way the Germans do it. The monetary amounts of speeding fines are IMO fairly tame, but what puts teeth in the law is license suspensions, which are given for violations starting at 31kph over the posted limit in built-up areas (or 41kph over on highways), and range from 1-3 months duration. A pretty powerful deterent, and one that is used liberally--I know quite a few people here who've lost their license for at least a month!

Makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I'm quite impressed by a lot of aspects of Germany (solar adoption rate, standard of living, etc.)

As for the fine, I'm fine with a fine based on your assets so long as it is no overly punitive (for example, a day's income is a basic metric).